If I do prefer standing in town or in my house how does that affect your gameplay?
It is NOT a bug.
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It is NOT a bug.
A bug? Really? The devs changed it from 100% to 99% years ago. If it was a "bug" they'd have "fixed it" properly back then.
And yeah, I'd prefer to play the game I enjoy after training on a golem than spending days on end fighting 10,000 skeletons and thus having all desire to play drained from me.
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This change really benefits no one. I don't care if folks want to powergame and beat on a golem. It's their right to burn resources repairing the golem and standing there whacking on it. I've done it myself. Boring but effective. Someone standing in Luna (or their house or other place out of the guard zone), affected no other player's game experience in a negative manner. Those that chose to raise their skills in dungeons could, and still can, do that. I worked despise many times before the revamp working up different melee skills. The FACT of this change, however, is that now melee characters are FORCED to train skills in the dungeons. Meanwhile almost every other template (excluding tamers) in UO can still sit in the comfort of their home and raise THEIR skills. In fact, as I sit here typing this, I look at my second screen and watch my character work detecting hidden on the ground floor of my house. I could be doing the same with tons of other skills. I don't FEEL like working it in a dungeon. When I go to a dungeon, or Peerless or champ, I'm taking a developed character because I want to play the top end stuff, be it other players, or Peerless level mobs. I don't go to dungeons to kill earth eles and loot the 121 gold from them. So why on earth did the developers waste valuable time on a fix that wasn't needed. And who gives a flying **** if someone trains on a golem? Seriously.
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It's not fun or dangerous for me to start at 50 skill and go kill crap and gather my 100k tops in loot I have hundreds of mils pvp PvM suits a full tamer sampires 3 full accounts I'm not new I wanted the ability to gain my skills without the aggravating grind of killing MOBS with little to no gold and no loot drops worth anything now if maybe a new loot system and maybe rare drops for even te newest chars now we are talking something a noob can get in his 30-60 dungeon worth 30-40m not only would there be plenty of people there farming for pixel crack but people to help the actual noobs..golem was a bad fix really it was
Its like arguing with my 7 year old. No one ever said Golems are required to train skill- my point is by removing the trianing you are annoying vets. New players are unaffected - they will be new players.
Who does this change help? WHO? It annoys one group of players and doesn't affect anyone else. So explain WHY this is a good change. Lets hear it.
Lets see your own pro/con list. Please, enlighten us with your overwhelming knowledge.
Next they will take away Shadow Eles for pet training. Its the same concept. Lets make the game even more tedious.
The hours you came up with are pretty far off.
At most some skills take 3 days of non stop macroing like mystic and spellweaving. I've never done fishing so I can't speak for that, but besides taming I believe you can work just about any skill in 3 full days.
So you're 3 skills at 100 60 hours, and 3 at 120 is way off. Not sure what you're doing in those 2 hours for 30 days ect but something is wrong there.
I will however agree with making skills easier to gain. That's one appeal to free shards is you can finish a character very quickly, so with fast gains you can get to the caps cheap and not have to be rich to get a completed character on some of those shards.
You know, they have Mugen, Siege and then the other servers (Atl, GL, Sonoma, Airang, Formosa, Catskills, etc).. would it be impossible to just make another server that cannot be transferred to or from that just starts new/fresh without the inclusion of certain item properties like LRC or activities of golem training? Don't go too far off the beaten path, include tram and fel to keep people happy; perhaps consider adding an extra facet on there that is relatively small that has some community collections where you can get cinnamon rolls for donating lots of gold? Perhaps do away with imbuing on that server too? Or greatly reduce the "imbuing" weight an item can receive so people aren't omfg robocop invincible? I remember making a suit that was all 70's except my energy resist which was 67, 100% LRC and a little Hit point/Stamina/Mana increase (I'm talking like negligible by today's standards, 2 hp 1 stam 5 mana perhaps) just after one of the loot intensity increases. It's been awhile but I think it was somewhere during Samurai Empire. It was a combination of lucking out with varying shades of runic hammers and getting wickedly lucky with some Paragon Ancient Wyrm loot from Ancient Lair - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia. You haven't lived until you try solo'ing a paragon ancient wyrm with a Hiryu. Luckily a few guildies decided to come down and kill some with me (
WILD, if any of them still playing) and we made a evening out of it. To me, when you were struggling to build something like that, the game was fun but not soul crushingly distressing. You could go out with a roughly skilled character in their 80's - 90's and still bring home some bacon. Crafters not so much, but it wasn't like trying to take a newblet out to Stygian Dragon and telling them GL HF. There were obvious other problems during that span of game history, namely stealth archers had literally no answer, aside from other stealth archers.. and lord help you if you got jumped by a gang of stealth archers v_v. (granted there is always somebody who's uber leet wtfever kills everybody with a dexer)
Anyhow, don't restrict that new server to just 1 character. Make it a full on fresh new server. Complete with shard wide housing placement. It would include all the newest content, but gear would have to be modified so that it is not super over powered. You would want to do peerless with more than just you because you'd almost have to. Give it an EM, just like a normal server. And because we know this will never happen; continue with the bug fixes, like the party bars disappearing off the screen when you break a party. >.> Also cinnamon rolls.
WILD, if any of them still playing) and we made a evening out of it. To me, when you were struggling to build something like that, the game was fun but not soul crushingly distressing. You could go out with a roughly skilled character in their 80's - 90's and still bring home some bacon. Crafters not so much, but it wasn't like trying to take a newblet out to Stygian Dragon and telling them GL HF. There were obvious other problems during that span of game history, namely stealth archers had literally no answer, aside from other stealth archers.. and lord help you if you got jumped by a gang of stealth archers v_v. (granted there is always somebody who's uber leet wtfever kills everybody with a dexer)Anyhow, don't restrict that new server to just 1 character. Make it a full on fresh new server. Complete with shard wide housing placement. It would include all the newest content, but gear would have to be modified so that it is not super over powered. You would want to do peerless with more than just you because you'd almost have to. Give it an EM, just like a normal server. And because we know this will never happen; continue with the bug fixes, like the party bars disappearing off the screen when you break a party. >.> Also cinnamon rolls.
How many hours is 3 full days? 10 hours a day? Thats 30 hours. How is my 40 hour estimate for a 120 skill that far off? My point was the NORMAL PLAYER WHO IS NOT MACROING would be playing 1-2 hours a day allowing for a normal life. That means to get 90 hours in to build a character - they need to devote 100% of their UO time (1-2 hrs a day) for 45 days to get this done.
That was my point. Too many people on this board play the game like 10 or more hours a day because they have no job/life and then wonder why you can't get the general population to join in UO. Well the other 99% of the world does not play a game 10 hours a day. I know, shocking.
If you want to attract the other 99% - don't make UO a career - make it a game.
I use to play for more that 2 hours a day and, in the past, I would allow the game to play for far longer but even then I found making new chars a grind. 3 days of non-stop macroing is 92 hours(assuming a 23 hour game time and that you woke up to restart your "macro" at server up), a heck of a long time for some person to play for a hour or two a night.
I can see where this is going (nowhere). That's the problem with debate these days, people think that being entitled to their opinion means that their opinion is right.
Don't try to put words in my mouth. You're defending yourself from things I didn't even say. Everyone is aware that golems are not required to train skill. Nobody is arguing that.
So the first thing you do is toss a weak insult at me, then you expect me to waste my time further by discussing a matter on which you are clearly failing to think logically about? No thank you. I will take my "overwhelming" knowledge elsewhere. You're not here to debate, you're here to complain. That's not mentally stimulating, it's just freakin annoying.
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For the skills golems are used to train with Warriors, you will be gaining in TWO TO FOUR major skills simultaneously.
Weapon
Tactics
Lumberjacking (if possessed and using an axe)
Anatomy (unless you are running a no-healing template and are forgoing the skill%/2, +5% at GM+ pre-DI mod to base damage from Anatomy)
Bushido (if running a Bushido template, and using stuff like lightning strike).
The latter two might allow some tertiary gain from your mana use in Focus or Med, but anyone can gain those to GM+ in a day.
Rarely, Magery over GM (add -29 mage weapon that's 100% poison, it's quicker from the lack of mana needed) is trained this way, but it's a special case.
AND, you end up with a choice of sitting there monitoring the situation, with the only gainful pursuits being chatting or menial, manual, crafting - or being AFK, risking sanction from your illegal action, and potentially wasting hours because you hit training goals, and the character wastes hours bashing for little gain, that could have been used to play attended, killing things that are in your gain range.
BUT...
If you are actually fighting stuff that fights back, you get to use your full skill set.
Weapon
Tactics
Anatomy
Lumberjacking
Parry (as the golem is based on tricking the AI to not attack you)
All casting skills (not just Bushido), as some will only be trainable by casting spells that buff damage or debuff the target, that would break the golem method's defense, AND their support skills (Eval, SS, etc.) without resorting to skill agents or illegal methods.
Any barding skills your warrior might dabble with
Focus (and med, if you are using mana for buffs, debuffs and special moves)
and so on...
With the Crystal Ball of Knowledge, you'll gain more warrior skills, faster, NOT using a golem, but adventuring, PLUS have the benefit of looting corpses for financial gain (gold, leathers, and so on). It's a no-brainer.
Personally, I only golem trained for 1 week. I wanted to finish up my Archer (note, he's STILL not finished, 7 years later) and my non-combat LJ in the week prior to the launch of ML. Frankly, after seeing how hard Yew wood & higher were to find (especially in those first few months), it wasn't worth the hassle.
Weapon
Tactics
Lumberjacking (if possessed and using an axe)
Anatomy (unless you are running a no-healing template and are forgoing the skill%/2, +5% at GM+ pre-DI mod to base damage from Anatomy)
Bushido (if running a Bushido template, and using stuff like lightning strike).
The latter two might allow some tertiary gain from your mana use in Focus or Med, but anyone can gain those to GM+ in a day.
Rarely, Magery over GM (add -29 mage weapon that's 100% poison, it's quicker from the lack of mana needed) is trained this way, but it's a special case.
AND, you end up with a choice of sitting there monitoring the situation, with the only gainful pursuits being chatting or menial, manual, crafting - or being AFK, risking sanction from your illegal action, and potentially wasting hours because you hit training goals, and the character wastes hours bashing for little gain, that could have been used to play attended, killing things that are in your gain range.
BUT...
If you are actually fighting stuff that fights back, you get to use your full skill set.
Weapon
Tactics
Anatomy
Lumberjacking
Parry (as the golem is based on tricking the AI to not attack you)
All casting skills (not just Bushido), as some will only be trainable by casting spells that buff damage or debuff the target, that would break the golem method's defense, AND their support skills (Eval, SS, etc.) without resorting to skill agents or illegal methods.
Any barding skills your warrior might dabble with
Focus (and med, if you are using mana for buffs, debuffs and special moves)
and so on...
With the Crystal Ball of Knowledge, you'll gain more warrior skills, faster, NOT using a golem, but adventuring, PLUS have the benefit of looting corpses for financial gain (gold, leathers, and so on). It's a no-brainer.
Personally, I only golem trained for 1 week. I wanted to finish up my Archer (note, he's STILL not finished, 7 years later) and my non-combat LJ in the week prior to the launch of ML. Frankly, after seeing how hard Yew wood & higher were to find (especially in those first few months), it wasn't worth the hassle.
What we're arguing is that it was introduced and left for a decade, nerfed once and then suddenly called an exploit. If it WERE an exploit then all people doing it should have been banned on the spot attended or unattended since abusing exploits are against the ToS right?
Sir, a simple like button does not give this statement it's just dues.
Meh, I used to powergame loads, use scripts all the time, focus on ways to get my characters maxed in the shortest time, etc. Upon reflection of that period afterwards, though, I realized that I had lost sight of the fact that UO was a game that I was suppose to be playing for fun and entertainment and not something that should inconveniently be sat in the background whilst my computer played it for me. After I've returned I've been casually playing and training up stuff and probably got more entertainment value out of it than I ever did with my previous "playstyle."
That said, I understand the reason why I did what I did previously and why people continue to do it to this day. Some skills are ridiculously tedious to train up and this is especially true for veterans who may have trained the same skill up on other characters many times. One could argue that's the nature of the beast within the MMO genre and to a point you'd be right, although if we look at other popular games such as WoW they have accelerated methods for veterans to gain experience that results in a much reduced timeframe for having a maximum level character.
Personally I think training methods like golems and 100% LRC suits casting spells at nothing are ridiculous and indeed these should have been removed the moment they popped up. They're a convenient method of power training, sure, but they're fundamentally stupid if you think of it from a game mechanics perspective. You should gain melee skills by hitting stuff appropriate for your skill level and gain casting skills by casting spells at mobs appropriate to your level. There can be no argument about their removal due to this core point.
That said, I think UO's method of skill gain should be revisited so that this isn't as tedious as it sounds. I personally do not like the random nature of skill gains; I think the more predictable experienced-based systems work better and allow you to know exactly where you're at in terms of when your next gain is coming from. That's a pretty big overhaul though and probably something that wouldn't be all that popular among this playerbase, so intermediate measures could perhaps include much more regular GGS gains or, something I really would like to see, various quests at different skill levels that actually reward skill points when they're completed. The quests could be varied enough to encourage people to explore/get people fighting mobs in dungeons (Felucca?) they otherwise wouldn't and have substantial enough skill rewards to make them worthwhile.
tl;dr: I'm pleased about this change but the issue of why people embraced this method so universally shouldn't be ignored and the issue of skill gain, or veteran skill gain, should possibly be revisited.
That said, I understand the reason why I did what I did previously and why people continue to do it to this day. Some skills are ridiculously tedious to train up and this is especially true for veterans who may have trained the same skill up on other characters many times. One could argue that's the nature of the beast within the MMO genre and to a point you'd be right, although if we look at other popular games such as WoW they have accelerated methods for veterans to gain experience that results in a much reduced timeframe for having a maximum level character.
Personally I think training methods like golems and 100% LRC suits casting spells at nothing are ridiculous and indeed these should have been removed the moment they popped up. They're a convenient method of power training, sure, but they're fundamentally stupid if you think of it from a game mechanics perspective. You should gain melee skills by hitting stuff appropriate for your skill level and gain casting skills by casting spells at mobs appropriate to your level. There can be no argument about their removal due to this core point.
That said, I think UO's method of skill gain should be revisited so that this isn't as tedious as it sounds. I personally do not like the random nature of skill gains; I think the more predictable experienced-based systems work better and allow you to know exactly where you're at in terms of when your next gain is coming from. That's a pretty big overhaul though and probably something that wouldn't be all that popular among this playerbase, so intermediate measures could perhaps include much more regular GGS gains or, something I really would like to see, various quests at different skill levels that actually reward skill points when they're completed. The quests could be varied enough to encourage people to explore/get people fighting mobs in dungeons (Felucca?) they otherwise wouldn't and have substantial enough skill rewards to make them worthwhile.
tl;dr: I'm pleased about this change but the issue of why people embraced this method so universally shouldn't be ignored and the issue of skill gain, or veteran skill gain, should possibly be revisited.
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There is always an upside.
Don't want to train up to 120 swords by "playing the game" and would have used the golem method except its nerfed?
buy advanced character token or mythic token or whatever from the UO store....upside for EA/Mythic
buy SOTs....upside for vendors
do champs for SOTs....upside for raiders.
Hey...this change may bring back a lot of PvP as peopler will be looking for SoTs....
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Huh? I said the longest for the toughest skills, including taming and that's to 115 that I'm talking about would be done in 3 full days.
So for you to come up with 60 hours for a 3x gm you're doing something wrong. You could do that in hours and if you do it right you could do many skills at once. With magery for example you can gain magery, med, resist, and eval. A warrior if you know what you're doing can work Fighting skill, anatomy, tactics, and healing at once. You need to learn to work smarter.
I'm sorry if you don't know how to work a char properly. Also do you think you're the only one who does other things besides UO? Or is it anyone who knows how to work skills must not have a job/school/social life/extracurricular activities? Great logic hahaha
It's like if someone kills another player that person MUST be dedicated to UO. There is no way they can casually play and beat the other player. Hearing things like that similar to what you said makes you sound less than intelligent.
Look up ^
I agree !! To the whiners who didnt like my post. You are lazy bones! So what you loose the golem... big deal. Learn what the majority of us know... its more fun to do it the natural way. So get a life and learn to be your character's skill base.
It dont take rocket science to train a skill... with a good set of jewelry and a good idea of what to go hunt you and a friend can go have a hell of a time wacking a bunch of trolls.
Or what ever will help you gain.
Beleave me alot of people do it the natural way.
I agree !! To the whiners who didnt like my post. You are lazy bones! So what you loose the golem... big deal. Learn what the majority of us know... its more fun to do it the natural way. So get a life and learn to be your character's skill base.
It dont take rocket science to train a skill... with a good set of jewelry and a good idea of what to go hunt you and a friend can go have a hell of a time wacking a bunch of trolls.
Or what ever will help you gain.
Beleave me alot of people do it the natural way.
Exactly. Thats why I trained ALL my warrior-skills in the Abyss Mini-Spawns. Nice Side-Effect: Tons of Imbuing Stuff and really good Arties (Animated Leggins, for example...). So, in addition, Golem fighting is specifically non-lucrative...
So much this, there is no point in complaining about the fix, if you have any general knowledge of the game there are a tleast 3 other ways to gain just as fast as a golemthank god they didn't fix the better way to train fighting skills than a golem - that woulda sucked - at least I'm still in business
This is an opinion, it is NOT fun for me to go beat on lizardmen, orges, or trolls... not at all. I did that route, ages ago. I know how skills work, how to use them effectively, and how they interwine with other skills. There is no learning curve for me to go and kill lizardmen, etc. I can not stand when other people tell ME what should be fun for ME. If you like killing lizardmen, etc. I think that is awsome. I hope you find time to do it often, and enjoy yourself while you do. At this point in the game training skills is a means to an end... to play doing the things that are fun to ME.Look up ^
Learn what the majority of us know... its more fun to do it the natural way. .
[haha tablet posted a wee bit soon there lol]
Nobody is telling anyone how they should have fun. It wasn't us who made this change, but the devs. One of the main reasons I can see for this change, is to bring UO warrior training in line with training in many other games. Everywhere else I play you have to level up on increasingly difficult spawn. Only UO seems to have all the instant skill stuff to such an extent.
Maybe the devs have finally had enough of pandering to players who just want everything up front in the shortest time possible. Which doesn't surprise me - they spent time revamping dungeons and making them suitable for today's players and still folk bash golems. It is their game, players just pay to use it They will make UO in their vision of it, not always making it easier for the players. If they finally see the merit in players training through normal play then I'll raise a glass to it. About time IMHO.
UO players seem to be heading down a road where the least effort is too much for them. I think a bit of tough love is welcome, though I'd like to see much more changed so players actually play rather than park training characters and pets.
Wenchy
Nobody is telling anyone how they should have fun. It wasn't us who made this change, but the devs. One of the main reasons I can see for this change, is to bring UO warrior training in line with training in many other games. Everywhere else I play you have to level up on increasingly difficult spawn. Only UO seems to have all the instant skill stuff to such an extent.
Maybe the devs have finally had enough of pandering to players who just want everything up front in the shortest time possible. Which doesn't surprise me - they spent time revamping dungeons and making them suitable for today's players and still folk bash golems. It is their game, players just pay to use it
They will make UO in their vision of it, not always making it easier for the players. If they finally see the merit in players training through normal play then I'll raise a glass to it. About time IMHO. UO players seem to be heading down a road where the least effort is too much for them. I think a bit of tough love is welcome, though I'd like to see much more changed so players actually play rather than park training characters and pets.
Wenchy
It is the Dev's telling us! That is the whole point. Training on golems does not negatively affect anyones gameplay, no one! It is not a bug either, just an unforeseen combination of effects... high resistance to a single element and 100% element weapons... NEITHER of those are bugs! The dev team has just decided that training like that is not something they like, so they jack with it. It may seem trivial, but it isnt... its another in a long string of "not broke so lets fix it".
isnt this what the new mythic token does in a way?
mages still have it easy to train, god forbid anyone use game mechanics to get an edge in the game.
The game belongs to EA/Mythic, not us. Around the world gamers in other games can manage to train in dungeons, so unless UOers are somehow less capable there is no argument for keeping a training method which was always on the lame side.
Some things don't have to be bugs or hurting others before they need to be changed. Golems have been changed before, now they're changing again because clearly the devs felt it necessary. If the devs think the game will be better with a change, then they are likely to make it. You may not think golems are broken, but others disagree. Devs included.
Wenchy
Yup from what I understand, scrolls and tokens are there for anyone who wants to train easy/quick regardless of the skill. The alternative is to go train through hunting. Seems fair to me.
Skills train in different ways in UO and some are easier than others to train. Then at the end, others may be more powerful and easier to play. This whole line about how other classes have it easy sounds rather like jealousy more than common sense. In other games ranged fighters are "easier" to train too, often standing right at the back of a party while the warriors are in the thick of the spawn. But put that mage in the warrior's position and they're dead. Likewise the warrior might not be as good at hitting a creature up on a ledge. Or healing etc. You get a very different character with pros and cons of each.
I'm fully in favour of changes to how characters train so effort is always rewarded most. When we use things like golems to train, there is no real pressure on the devs to upgrade the gains system because everyone is watching movies while they park in Luna. Dungeons sat gathering dust because warriors opted out of using them. Now perhaps players will use dungeons, report bugs and issues and get us a better gain system. But it simply won't happen if we all use our respective golems and parking methods.
Wenchy
Merus
Golems didnt exsist in 97 UO. We did have to lvl on what was around us. No special jewelry to bring you up to a decient lvl, no mega armor outside what you could get from looting monsters from hunting or getting a smith to make you a set. You had your wits and a weapon to go lvl up. Period. All the thats happened is it puts the game back to that method. No insurance, not rares, no nothing is what the first players had. They gained just fine.
Wenchkin is very much correct in that the game is owned by EA managed by Mythic. As such they have exclucive rights to change anything with out notice. Read your tos.
We are told what happens because they think we should have a heads up. Complaining about whats being done will not stop it. They feel the golem is bing misused, there fore it is off the training list. Deal with it. Many have told you how to train and have some fun. That is why you play UO yes?
Golems didnt exsist in 97 UO. We did have to lvl on what was around us. No special jewelry to bring you up to a decient lvl, no mega armor outside what you could get from looting monsters from hunting or getting a smith to make you a set. You had your wits and a weapon to go lvl up. Period. All the thats happened is it puts the game back to that method. No insurance, not rares, no nothing is what the first players had. They gained just fine.
Wenchkin is very much correct in that the game is owned by EA managed by Mythic. As such they have exclucive rights to change anything with out notice. Read your tos.
We are told what happens because they think we should have a heads up. Complaining about whats being done will not stop it. They feel the golem is bing misused, there fore it is off the training list. Deal with it. Many have told you how to train and have some fun. That is why you play UO yes?
This is exactly the attitude a lot of people have a problem with regarding this situation. Who are YOU to dictate to others what is "fun"? Who are YOU to to tell others how to have "fun"? Is taking a skill to 100 and then to 120 for the 7th+ time fun? To you maybe, to me not really. I GMed weapon/magery/crafting skills well before AOS, back when we would put white wyrms in a house and work fighting skills that way. The point is you shouldn't act like the concerns of others aren't warranted, don't tell others how to have fun, don't try to force your idea of "fun" onto others. As with everything in UO if there is a will there is a way, there are numerous other ways to gain fighting skills with as much easy as using the golem , my issue with this whole thread is stop trying to tell others that their idea of fun is wrong.Merus
We are told what happens because they think we should have a heads up. Complaining about whats being done will not stop it. They feel the golem is bing misused, there fore it is off the training list. Deal with it. Many have told you how to train and have some fun. That is why you play UO yes?
There is so much misreading going on here. Everyone seems to be focusing on the little details just to argue with each other. The main point is that the devs feel like golems are being misused, so they are going to make changes to it (which we still have no idea what they are). Everyone's point is that there are still plenty of other ways to train, not necessarily that there are more fun, but it's not the end of the road for training.
Right and AFKing a mage/mystic/necro anywhere in the game isn't beyond absurd? Stop cheerleading the team for a stupid change that only hurts the community. This game isn't filled with fresh players and a slight minority want to kill lizardmen while everyone wants to have a go at the slasher, this is a silly change with little positive outcoming. It's heavy handed and poorly thought out, much like 90% of the other crap that has been given to us in the last year and a half.....hmm can't think of who or what came to run the game over that time period but he/she should be rechecking what they want thier legacy in UO to be. We all know it won't be that long before they move on to greener stuff.
You are right, golems didnt exist in 1997, and I trained my characters back then anyway... lots of them. I know how to train my skills, with or without a golem. The fact that the devs think something does not make it the right decision for this game... look at the cluster f&^* that they did to factions. That change cost UO players, I promise you it did, some of whom will never come back... and it is FAR from the first time some bright idea from our dev team takes our game that much closer to gone. Was the faction change the end of the world? Nope. Will the golem change be the end of the world? Nope. Does that mean that players should sit back and be silent when our dev team makes poor decisions? Oh heck no! If our team sticks their head in the sand when players cry out about a proposed change, that makes them a poor team... it does not make us poor customers. I have not heard a single valid point for removing the abilit for some players to train on a golem if they wish... all I hear is some people dont like it, but they cant explain how it hurts their own gameplay.Merus
Golems didnt exsist in 97 UO. We did have to lvl on what was around us. No special jewelry to bring you up to a decient lvl, no mega armor outside what you could get from looting monsters from hunting or getting a smith to make you a set. You had your wits and a weapon to go lvl up. Period. All the thats happened is it puts the game back to that method. No insurance, not rares, no nothing is what the first players had. They gained just fine.
Wenchkin is very much correct in that the game is owned by EA managed by Mythic. As such they have exclucive rights to change anything with out notice. Read your tos.
We are told what happens because they think we should have a heads up. Complaining about whats being done will not stop it. They feel the golem is bing misused, there fore it is off the training list. Deal with it. Many have told you how to train and have some fun. That is why you play UO yes?
Reasonable players can disagree about the effect changeswill have on this game... that typically involves weighing the pros and cons of those changes, which and how many players will be impacted, and the long term effect on the population of the player base. IMO this change fails on all three topics.
A: I THINK BASHING LIZARDMEN IS FUN, DON'T YOU THINK IT'S FUN?
B: No.
A: WH-- BU-- BASHING LIZARDMEN IS FUN, DON'T YOU THINK IT'S FUN?
B: Again, no.
A: WELL IT IS FUN AND NOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT AND IT'S FUN!
B: No I don't, there are lots of other ways to gain skill.
A: FFFFFFF--
B: No.
A: WH-- BU-- BASHING LIZARDMEN IS FUN, DON'T YOU THINK IT'S FUN?
B: Again, no.
A: WELL IT IS FUN AND NOW YOU HAVE TO DO IT AND IT'S FUN!
B: No I don't, there are lots of other ways to gain skill.
A: FFFFFFF--
Me thinks that now that they took out the anti static code, the bit that made us all do 8X8 training. We could all go back to the bone wall to train again. Im sure it would work just like the old days. One guy tanking doing melee skills, healers behind gaining healing from the tank, archers and mages at the back
I don't see where anyone said we should go train off of lizardmen now. Not a bad attempt at trying to reduce the argument to the level of absurdity though...
Anyone could easily think of some much better creatures to train off of. I'm particularly a fan of daemons, ogre lords, and titans. Mostly because they are fun to kill though.
Anyone could easily think of some much better creatures to train off of. I'm particularly a fan of daemons, ogre lords, and titans. Mostly because they are fun to kill though.
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Many people love uo and are very passionate about it. This is generally very good for uo.
However, I think that this passion also generates a lot of arguments in uo, and as we have a very diverse playerbase, it sometimes impedes our abilities to see flaws in our own arguments, or any validity whatsoever in counter arguments, or the basis for our arguments being used to make points against what we feel is the right way to play uo.
As a result, we keep arguing and arguing and arguing, without anyone actually persuading anyone to change their minds.
However, I think that this passion also generates a lot of arguments in uo, and as we have a very diverse playerbase, it sometimes impedes our abilities to see flaws in our own arguments, or any validity whatsoever in counter arguments, or the basis for our arguments being used to make points against what we feel is the right way to play uo.
As a result, we keep arguing and arguing and arguing, without anyone actually persuading anyone to change their minds.
WHAAAaaaa....they are making it too difficult. blah blah blah lizardmen blah.
Don't like actually having to work for skill, then pay ea for a token and go easy mode. And if that doesn't suit you, Go find another game that lets you instantly max a toon.
UO has always been a series of adjustments and fixes. They all suck for someone, one way or another. Change your panties, go find a spawn to work, and get over it.
Don't like actually having to work for skill, then pay ea for a token and go easy mode. And if that doesn't suit you, Go find another game that lets you instantly max a toon.
UO has always been a series of adjustments and fixes. They all suck for someone, one way or another. Change your panties, go find a spawn to work, and get over it.
I think the lizardman is getting a particularly harsh deal in this thread
You guys looked at the Hunter's Guide recently? Try searching by skill levels and you'll find a lot of newer creatures at the right skill levels. I'm sure some will be able to give you good items you want while you get gains. You can combine training with hunting, I did that for years on characters and many pets. Training and hunting are not hard to combine.
But let's be brutally honest, it's not about what is fun. Golem training is hardly the most engaging and exciting activity. It's just a safe method that doesn't require much action from the player. Vs having to go around different spawns and stay alive etc. I've heard these arguments before from pet trainers, invariably the core issue is having to play more actively. Not what is fun or not.
Wenchy
You guys looked at the Hunter's Guide recently? Try searching by skill levels and you'll find a lot of newer creatures at the right skill levels. I'm sure some will be able to give you good items you want while you get gains. You can combine training with hunting, I did that for years on characters and many pets. Training and hunting are not hard to combine.
But let's be brutally honest, it's not about what is fun. Golem training is hardly the most engaging and exciting activity. It's just a safe method that doesn't require much action from the player. Vs having to go around different spawns and stay alive etc. I've heard these arguments before from pet trainers, invariably the core issue is having to play more actively. Not what is fun or not.
Wenchy
I think the token is a great reminder of why things like this are added to the game. Take away the known and established route and offer a instant offering with a small cost. Same thing with all the effort spent with the prior dev master and the "booster" packs that were 8 years to late and offered nearly nothing for the cost(shockingly the half the current duo was involved in that effort).
People are also saying that golems diverted the leveling system which is not true. Yes I could use some jewels to get into the range that a golem worked at but I still had to work the melee skill up to 70 or so and then only if I wished to use the jewels I could attempt the golem which is not any different than any other mid range monster that I could have jeweled up to.
The team have done some wonderful things in the last while but they have also done some amazingly stupid things also. I'm not going to say I expect perfection from them but it is what I expect from myself. I am the master as I pay the freaking bills but so is everyone else. I can't recall a thread on stratics, or any other fan site, calling for the removal of golems. I do recall piles asking for other stuff but certainly not this.
People are also saying that golems diverted the leveling system which is not true. Yes I could use some jewels to get into the range that a golem worked at but I still had to work the melee skill up to 70 or so and then only if I wished to use the jewels I could attempt the golem which is not any different than any other mid range monster that I could have jeweled up to.
The team have done some wonderful things in the last while but they have also done some amazingly stupid things also. I'm not going to say I expect perfection from them but it is what I expect from myself. I am the master as I pay the freaking bills but so is everyone else. I can't recall a thread on stratics, or any other fan site, calling for the removal of golems. I do recall piles asking for other stuff but certainly not this.
I view golems as the followup to the advanced traning dummy that requires occational repairs during the training. UO obviously thought it was ok to mindlessly beat on a dummy to get up to 60 skill, golems just finish the process. Although they require some attention now and then, I can use my other account and be out having FUN while he is training... something I can't really do if I have to be wacking on lizardmen, orges, trolls and the like.I think the lizardman is getting a particularly harsh deal in this thread
You guys looked at the Hunter's Guide recently? Try searching by skill levels and you'll find a lot of newer creatures at the right skill levels. I'm sure some will be able to give you good items you want while you get gains. You can combine training with hunting, I did that for years on characters and many pets. Training and hunting are not hard to combine.
But let's be brutally honest, it's not about what is fun. Golem training is hardly the most engaging and exciting activity. It's just a safe method that doesn't require much action from the player. Vs having to go around different spawns and stay alive etc. I've heard these arguments before from pet trainers, invariably the core issue is having to play more actively. Not what is fun or not.
Wenchy
I think this is quite obviously at work over at EA... a couple recent examples:
Lets intoduce the Mythic character token, then nerf the heck out of the primary method our players use to train melee skill! BAM... Mythic token sales go up!
Let's intoduce an supreme crafting method to make some uber gear, but we will only make it work on base materials... yeah... then they will have to enhance it with the special materials after they craft it... but their chance to enhance will be obsurdly low... BAM... Forged metal tool sales go up!
Why go FTP when we can charge them a subscription AND PTW!
Should at least give people the option of hiring a "sparring partner" npc at the warriors guild or something. Even if they charge a whole lot. Yet again they take an imbalanced game change out like 10 years after the fact, and do nothing about the fallout.
2 computers
2 accounts
2 characters
multiple sets of DC crap suits
bandaids
felluca
i been doing it this way for 15 years, never fails.
I can't believe anyone doesnt have skills maxed with TOS and alacrity scrolls. I know for a fact i have over 50 skills maxed out just on my main account all stoned. Guess some people don't see the light.
2 accounts
2 characters
multiple sets of DC crap suits
bandaids
felluca
i been doing it this way for 15 years, never fails.
I can't believe anyone doesnt have skills maxed with TOS and alacrity scrolls. I know for a fact i have over 50 skills maxed out just on my main account all stoned. Guess some people don't see the light.
do you even need two computers? couldn't you just run two instances of uo on one computer? And depending on your guild status, you could war your guilds and fight in trammel.
True. But other games actually have an entertaining storyline, epic quests, group dungeons etc. In other MMOs the most fun I've had is levelling up. Normally quit once I hit endgame. In UO, levelling up is very dull and tedious. All the fun, for me and many others I know, as at "end game".
It's not a huge issue though. If I have to train a weapon skill again, I just won't train it. Bought a mythic token, buy some SOTs. Sorted.
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Wouldn't even need to war. Put them in the same guild while you train.
Think that's the dodgy bit that needed changing though. If you can safely train with so little involvement that you can play another char, that needs fixed IMHO.
Dungeon training won't be made more enjoyable if we're skipping it. But it will improve if we help the devs with suggestions for the continuing revamp. Now is exactly the time when we should discuss training and how to fix it. The devs are doing the revamp for us, I think we should use that content to train and give them feedback. Just think how much more feedback they'd get if everyone switched from golems to dungeons
Wenchy