Who are you to say that newbies have nothing better to do then wait 10 freaking minutes for a pet rezz that cost them gold and skill loss?
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Seriously Devs? Pet's spirit cohesion on top of...
- Thread starter Goldberg-Chessy
- Start date
- Watchers 7
I hear you but I started the thread and never hinted at the thought of anyone leaving the game over it.Question...
Why is there this much doom and gloom over a vet res timer that has been in effect for how long? years?
If we want to argue to have it removed, why are we doing it with the standard freaking out followed by threats of mass amounts of people leaving the game over it?
Does the vet res timer suck? yes...
Are people quitting over it? no..
How about reducing it to 2 minutes? That would make my sampire who dies a lot very happy indeed =)
Just my two cents..
I just know that it currently makes little to no sense and the only people arguing to keep it are quite obviously biased. Its all good though.
Some people will always have weird and nostalgic template issues. I'll get over it
Newsflash Wenchy:
There has never been and will never be a potential tamer thinking of making a creative template that will say to himself hrmmm..., I would love to play this tamer without vet but won't do it because I don't want to wait 10 minutes to get my pets rezzed.
That is ofc assuming I also don't choose to use easily obtained elixirs or just multi client like to rest of the planet lol.
There has never been and will never be a potential tamer thinking of making a creative template that will say to himself hrmmm..., I would love to play this tamer without vet but won't do it because I don't want to wait 10 minutes to get my pets rezzed.
That is ofc assuming I also don't choose to use easily obtained elixirs or just multi client like to rest of the planet lol.
Again, it's not about caring if players are creative and don't use vet. You can make any template you like, nobody is going to stop you. If you replace vet with something else it can make a stronger offensive template, but you sacrifice the benefits of vet skill. Just as you sacrifice some power if you build a mage without eval. If you make that choice to remove vet, why should anyone or any NPC rez the pet that is your responsibility? Are we supposed to carry any player who takes an important skill out of their template and make it better for them? Or do we say "no, you took that skill out of your template, you figure out how to rez your pets now. "
Wenchy
I love it... now you're a mind reader
Kinda funny that you claim the rest of the planet are using elixirs or multi clients, because if it's that easy for them and there are other obvious options for a tamer without vet, they don't need an NPC veterinarian. Heck, some of us realise the timer is there and do something else before going to the vet. The log out trick isn't even fixed to force pets to die in the first place
But no, even when some of us are supportive in changing the timer for non-tamers but just want to see it fixed in a balanced way, we have this much drama and angst. Complete with theoretical newbies and psychic powers. If things get much worse, Dr Who will turn up....Wenchy
I don't claim anyone is using anything. I simply stated that the timer, as it pertains to tamers using it, has nothing to do with op or unfair templates since elixirs and multi client bypass it instantly and easily.
So why again are you in favor of it causing new players and sampires unwarranted delays again?
Nothing selfish or personal and precious template related right? Lol at that.
No offense Wenchy but every single word you say in your vehement defense of the archaic and multi template harmful timer just illustrates that you want to keep it for nothing other then personal nostalgia and an odd hatred of tamers choosing to play a diversified template without vet.
"Are we supposed to carry any player who takes an important skill out of their template and make it better for them? Or do we say "no, you took that skill out of your template, you figure out how to rez your pets now"
Your words bud and pretty harsh. I am sorry that you feel that you and the devs have to carry other players although I thought that was kind of a nice community thing. Let's all just let everyone else playing valid templates figure everything out on their own. That will surely grow the game lol.
It is quite obvious that you will not listen to any rational discussion on the matter so I am simply going to leave the thread
Peace
So why again are you in favor of it causing new players and sampires unwarranted delays again?
Nothing selfish or personal and precious template related right? Lol at that.
No offense Wenchy but every single word you say in your vehement defense of the archaic and multi template harmful timer just illustrates that you want to keep it for nothing other then personal nostalgia and an odd hatred of tamers choosing to play a diversified template without vet.
"Are we supposed to carry any player who takes an important skill out of their template and make it better for them? Or do we say "no, you took that skill out of your template, you figure out how to rez your pets now"
Your words bud and pretty harsh. I am sorry that you feel that you and the devs have to carry other players although I thought that was kind of a nice community thing. Let's all just let everyone else playing valid templates figure everything out on their own. That will surely grow the game lol.
It is quite obvious that you will not listen to any rational discussion on the matter so I am simply going to leave the thread
Peace
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Anyone who has read all these posts will know by now that the fact that the timer has been in use for years is at the heart of the problem. It was originally introduced to pacify those players who wanted players who had dead pets to get them rezzed by other players with the Vet skill, the announced intention being to encourage interaction. At that time it had some validity as it was fairly easy to go to the popular bank with your dead pet, invariably no problem at all. Today on many shards that no longer applies, the timer is obsolete, dead as a dodo, useless, surplus to requirements, no longer needed.Question...
Why is there this much doom and gloom over a vet res timer that has been in effect for how long? years?
If we want to argue to have it removed, why are we doing it with the standard freaking out followed by threats of mass amounts of people leaving the game over it?
Does the vet res timer suck? yes...
Are people quitting over it? no..
How about reducing it to 2 minutes? That would make my sampire who dies a lot very happy indeed =)
Just my two cents..
Whilst I am posting, I fail to understand this argument about the timer being needed. To assist who? To do what?. I see talk about overpowered tamers with no Veterinary. Am I supposed to believe that there are experienced player tamers with no Vet skill who, when their pet is dead teleport to the NPC and wait 10 minutes for a rez?. If so I can tell you now that I do not believe it, Any reasonably competent player who decides to play without Vet will have certainly made arrangements to do so. No way do I believe that includes teleporting to an NPC and waiting for a rez. I agree entirely with the post stating that this outmoded timer is really seen at its worst by new and returning players who are the most likely to need the services of the NPC Vet. It is not the most wonderful advertisement for the playability of UO.
Um I said several times already that I SUPPORT reducing the wait time for non-tamers.
Nah, nostalgia belongs in the past. I have not defended the timer, I said it should be reduced for non-tamers. But the system we have now doesn't make any different rules for tamers or non tamers. And I happen to believe that if you are a tamer and those are your pets, you take care of them. That's not nostalgia, it's responsibility. I don't see any good reason why a tamer needs this NPC when they have other options, none of which force them to keep vet in their template or cause them to suffer in any way
It's harsh that if you build a bad template nobody fixes that for you? If I make a mage without eval, my reduced damage comes because I made that decision. If I want that damage increase then I train the skill. I have trained and concocted a whole stack of different "project tamers" over the years. Some worked, others didn't. But when they weren't as effective I knew it was down to me to choose something else. Or if I wasn't confident in my ability, to ask someone for advice.
Nowhere did I say that players must figure out their templates entirely by themselves or anything close to that. If I believed in leaving players to figure things out on their own a) I wouldn't be the tamer forum mod and b) I wouldn't have written guides and answered enough taming questions to re-wallpaper my house a few times over. But there is a point where even if you offer advice, the player themselves decides if they want to follow it or do their own thing. Even as a newbie. The player is the one who has to play the game and even with 10 players advising a particular template, you can get a newbie determined to try something different. Which they should, because sometimes the vets say "that won't work" and the player proves us wrong! But if it doesn't work, I don't think they'll expect a fairy godmother to appear by them in game and fix it or compensate for their weak spot. They'll realise something is wrong and ask questions or make adjustments. If they don't, well that's unfortunate for them. But I don't think you can make UO so perfect that a player can't make a mistake and have to live with the consequences, even temporarily.
Wenchy
Nobody is saying that a zero vet tamer whose pet died goes straight to the NPC vet before doing anything else. The ones I've met tend to ask my tamer for a rez first
But it is a backup service if they want to use it. And having a backup option can give you confidence to change a template. If I believed it was necessary for a tamer to use the vets, then I wouldn't say these pets should be the responsibility of their owners. It's just an extra support that I don't think a tamer needs or should have for a strong fighting pet. That means the timer isn't needed to deter a tamer and it can be reduced for everyone else, because the costs and skill loss with a more modest timer still encourage interaction if the devs want that. And if we're good and Santa is generous we can get the log out trick fixed as well. Wenchy
You're full of contradiction. Pick a path and stick to it?
Yes 5 years ago we had a population to ask players for a pet rez. Even on Atl you may or may not see a non afk tamer within the 10minute timer.
It's an annoyance to others gameplay and wouldn't effect anyone by removing this. I have a tamer without vet too and I don't really care for your attitude telling me or others with similar templates how to play our game. Play your game i'll play mine. Don't tell me what I HAVE to put on my temp.
Interaction? You JUST said it's not up to you to carry players yet you want interaction?
Yes 5 years ago we had a population to ask players for a pet rez. Even on Atl you may or may not see a non afk tamer within the 10minute timer.
It's an annoyance to others gameplay and wouldn't effect anyone by removing this. I have a tamer without vet too and I don't really care for your attitude telling me or others with similar templates how to play our game. Play your game i'll play mine. Don't tell me what I HAVE to put on my temp.
Read what I actually said. I was talking about players fixing templates belonging to other players which isn't possible because we can't log in to their account to do that. That is what I mean by not carrying someone - we can't repair a bad template, the tamer has to come to that decision and do it themselves. I made it crystal clear that it did not mean I wasn't interested in helping those players create/fix their template, their tactics, macros and when it comes to taming I'll try and answer any question that lands my way. Have done for years. So your interpretation is quite far from the mark as far as the whole "carry players" thing goes. In fact it couldn't be much further from it...
I said if the DEVS wanted interaction. Not myself. I don't feel I need a timer for players before they'll interact with me, if I want interaction I can create my own. In fact, I'm not sure I want to be interacting with anyone who is forced to be there. If I see a pet I'll rez it on sight: instant interaction just add bandages, If I'm in a spawn I can guarantee a pet owner will sooner ask me for a rez than go find the vet, regardless of their terms. I think interaction is great, back in the day I felt it should be encouraged. But these days it's clear that many players don't want to be pushed together and as I just said, I don't want forced interaction. It's too late to try making players interact now, better to have a game where that interaction is voluntary and more fun IMHO.
Again, I agree the timer should be shorter for non-tamers. And I'm not telling you what to do with your own tamer, this thread isn't about you and your tamer. My opinions about the NPC vet rezzing tamer pets are opinions about the NPC vets. Not some evil plot to force tamers to use vet skill. I really have better things to do than chase down every tamer without vet and yell at them. I mean really, that boat sailed a long time ago. Today's templates might not be relevant in a year's time anyway.
Now if you're taking offence because I have the opinion that a tamer should take responsibility for resurrecting their pets, well we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. But to clarify once again, taking responsibility isn't the same as "you must train/use vet skill" That isn't the only option even without an NPC vet. And if that still isn't gentle enough, well it's simply my opinion and ultimately the devs will decide what (if any) changes they make.
Wenchy
Yeah, it's roughly 10 minutes from the time of the pets death, which is way too long, I could see maybe a maximum of 2 minutes (like pvp/criminal flag), IF a cool-down is even necessary.
If someone is looking for ways to make Vet more desirable as part of a template, and the best they can come up with is an ugly player-unfriendly kludge like arbitrary wait time, then they are failing as a designer.
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I don't think the intent was ever to make it more desirable. I think it was more that there are simply people who have devoted time to build their skill up, and there was a new mechanic introduced which allowed the only unique use of the Vet skill (ie Resurrecting pets) to be replaced by a transaction. The wait time and stat penalty being the only incentives against completely throwing out the skill.
I have a number of tamers with widely varying templates, and while the timer may be inconvenient at times, it is in no way game stopping. Usually by the time I re-stock and am ready to go again the timer is up.
So if the devs ultimately decide to do away with the timer, they may as well do away with the Vet skill and the Vet NPC, and just roll the healing and resurrection into the same requirements as for players.
I have a number of tamers with widely varying templates, and while the timer may be inconvenient at times, it is in no way game stopping. Usually by the time I re-stock and am ready to go again the timer is up.
So if the devs ultimately decide to do away with the timer, they may as well do away with the Vet skill and the Vet NPC, and just roll the healing and resurrection into the same requirements as for players.
It's not about the vet skill. It's also no great feat to work the skill up. It's the taming equal to working music which takes a matter or hours to cap.
I have a tamer with vet and a bard tamer without. The reason I don't have vet on my bard is there's just no room. With everything revolving around luck, it makes it even harder to fit +skill items in. If I get in a pickle I usually rez with my vet account but times are hard right now and that account is down.
With that being said, the majority of my accounts don't have an ethy per char. I use those freebie colored horses they threw at us last year. My samp also rides a swampie. Again if I happen to die I need my ride to retrieve my body which will decay by the time that npc decides to rez. When I hunt I gather everything to unravel.
All that is gone in that 10min time. Body decayed and gone. <<---this is the issue with the timer. It doesn't really matter if it's shortened or rid of completely.
The difference between making a skill more desirable versus incentivizing against dropping it is semantic. Either way, if they wanted to keep Vet relevant they should have found a better reason than avoiding an arbitrary ten-minute cockblock. Like I don't know, have Vet modify magical healing of pets by -20% for zero skill and +20% for max skill. Then throw it on TC and adjust the percentages until the balance feels right.
Ever since Draconi left, this game hasn't found a kludge too sloppy to run with. Half the players don't even fully understand the item system in this game anymore.
Uhh, he did read what you actually said. So did I and you are saying more of the same in your rebuttal.
Who are you to say a tamer without vet is a "bad template" Your words bud
I have been running a dexxer without healing for years. Am I bad? Do you wanna log onto my account and fix it lol?
Or when I die should I have to wait some odd amount of time before I can play again?
Shouldn't all of the correct dexxers with healing hate me because they decided to spend a fraction of time obtaining the healing skill? That would be kinda weird wouldn't it?
Sampires rule the pvm world and they have the most unconventional templates ever. Should we penalize them also?
Sure, what's your user name and password...la
You don't need to res your pet to go back to your body. You need to res your pet to go back and continue fighting. You could buy a 600 gp horse and run back and get your stuff especially since the inception of autoloot. That's a matter of convenience not necessity.
Not if you already have too many pets or followers. Also.. that's double the price of getting a rez for a young player that's overly expensive.
Convenience matters in software design, particularly when the purpose of that software is entertainment. It matters a lot.
if i remember correctly the F***** potions have this timer as well..
bit i would be happy to sell you some potions to ress your pets
they can be insured so you always have them with you
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