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RMT discussion moved from the Genesis thread

Lady Storm

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one year I was curious and posted on his board for how much with and without the books... I nearly choked on my tea.... the price he was asking in RL money was insane.
Not even on UOs best time was any house worth that much! I have seen 2 of these homes fall...
 

Keith of Sonoma

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His Luna house on Sonoma recently changed hands. Not sure if the "old"one fell, or if he was able to sell it. And like @Lady Storm mentioned, he was asking RL $$$ for it on the billboard. Hopefully (but extremely doubtful) one of the devs saw it, and he got banned! I think that would be awesome. Especially if he paid RL $$$ for the houses in the first place:)
 

Fridgster

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His Luna house on Sonoma recently changed hands. Not sure if the "old"one fell, or if he was able to sell it. And like @Lady Storm mentioned, he was asking RL $$$ for it on the billboard. Hopefully (but extremely doubtful) one of the devs saw it, and he got banned! I think that would be awesome. Especially if he paid RL $$$ for the houses in the first place:)
I do understand your feelings about rmt, however I really don't think you realize just how large of a portion of players that participate in rmt. Honestly I'm willing to bet it's enough to were it would do irrepairable harm to the game if they actually attempted to shut it down.
 

Keith of Sonoma

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I do understand your feelings about rmt, however I really don't think you realize just how large of a portion of players that participate in rmt. Honestly I'm willing to bet it's enough to were it would do irrepairable harm to the game if they actually attempted to shut it down.
So, is it better for the developers to "turn a blind eye" to the RMT and in part condone cheating, or have some integrity and do what is right? For me it's easy. While I LOVE this game, I honestly would rather see it shut down because of the rules being enforced than continue down the path of allowing (yes, refusing to enforce the rules is actually allowing, and condoning)cheating/scripting/RMT. That being said, I can say I know of more people who quit in disgust over cheating/scripting/RMT than any other reason.

What say y'all @Mesanna @Bleak @Kyronix ????
 

Lady Storm

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Way back in UO time I was on Napa.... and saw a person stripping a forest and then a mining spot...
He dropped books all over the place (we didn't have chat) this book had a e bay address for his sales of game items....
A GM confronted him... they couldn't do anything to him....
EA sat on its hands.. he told them he was going to sell things he got in game legally for RL cash.
The first person to go to EA and say do something to stop me or ill do it and you cant do squat ... and EA didn't do nada.
That person went on to make tons off the game in sales of everything under the sun.. he didn't stop at UO, they hit all money making games.
Last I heard he sold the business to a Chinese business guy who ran it like a sweat shop...
So this guy is up there with them...
As long as people are too lazy to go mine or chop their own wood these sharks will be out there.
 

Fridgster

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So, is it better for the developers to "turn a blind eye" to the RMT and in part condone cheating, or have some integrity and do what is right? For me it's easy. While I LOVE this game, I honestly would rather see it shut down because of the rules being enforced than continue down the path of allowing (yes, refusing to enforce the rules is actually allowing, and condoning)cheating/scripting/RMT. That being said, I can say I know of more people who quit in disgust over cheating/scripting/RMT than any other reason.

What say y'all @Mesanna @Bleak @Kyronix ????
Problem is that the developers (and not only the current team) and ea have allowed it for so long that it has become ingrained into the system. Kind of like a parasite that is draining some nutrients from a host without killing it. However because of the placement of said parasites makes it impossible to remove without killing the host.
 

Keith of Sonoma

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However because of the placement of said parasites makes it impossible to remove without killing the host.
It could also be debated that "said parasites" are already "killing the host". I personally know of close to 80-100 accounts closed because the players were fed up with the cheating. Not a huge number, but not an insignificant one either.
 

Capt. Lucky

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Stratics Veteran
I can't say 100% but as far as I know cash wasn't involved with the Legends Genesis house transfer. There was a bit of discussion over who would get it and what they would do with it. He seemed to have an interest in it remaining a rune library over all else. A place that serviced the community. So every dark cloud has it's silver lining? I imagine he probably got tired of having 40 accounts and decided to slim the over head a little. I wouldn't expect to see the Atlantic houses start dropping. At least not the big ones.
 

Keith of Sonoma

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Broadsword does RMT. Just sayin' ;)
There is a HUGE difference in buying something from the UO store (OK to do) and buying and selling gold, houses, and other UO items for RL $$$ (Against the ToS/bannable offense). Also, Where do all of the items that the 3rd party sites sell come from? Think about that, AND the fact that a "weekly" shard traveling "game" is sponsored by one of them!
 

Uriah Heep

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As long as people are too lazy to go mine or chop their own wood these sharks will be out there.
You know,, this kinda makes me angry... not everyone wants to spend all their playtime hunting for that elusive special ore. In the old days you knew where to go. And NO NO NO we don't want to farm to get a 'special' map or a ' trinket" or whatever, to be able to reliably find that special ore. Randomized resources did nothing but encourage the scripters. Want people to do their own LJ'ing/mining again? restore the resources, make it simple like it was. I have a feeling (call me nuts if you want) the reason the resources aren't changed back is because special people are making too much $$ off of it.

The mentality of this games design has become ridiculous...everything introduced has to be a big grind-doesn't matter if it's fun or not, as long as takes the max amount of time possible to complete. Systems that are implented are half-assed and make no sense.

Inscription bods, for example, a 20 pc is 1 point. period. The 1st circle bods that any noob can fill at a mage shop, give the same reward as an 8th circle that requires high level skill and more materials due to fails. And don't get me started on teh point cost for the book LBoDS. (Runic atlas is a fine example of something done without a clue...)

Anyway, for the most part, I think RMT people and scripters are encouraged, perhaps unwittingly, by our very own devs with some of their decisions.

end of rant.
 

celticus

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I do understand your feelings about rmt, however I really don't think you realize just how large of a portion of players that participate in rmt. Honestly I'm willing to bet it's enough to were it would do irrepairable harm to the game if they actually attempted to shut it down.
Sry ignorant me..: What is rmt?
 

Lythos-

Lore Master
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Want people to do their own LJ'ing/mining again? restore the resources, make it simple like it was. I have a feeling (call me nuts if you want) the reason the resources aren't changed back is because special people are making too much $$ off of it.

The mentality of this games design has become ridiculous...everything introduced has to be a big grind-doesn't matter if it's fun or not, as long as takes the max amount of time possible to complete. Systems that are implented are half-assed and make no sense.

Anyway, for the most part, I think RMT people and scripters are encouraged, perhaps unwittingly, by our very own devs with some of their decisions.

end of rant.

When you combine the boredom of click after click and the literal pain of doing such actions over and over for X amount of years with a solid market for goods harvested while you work and sleep you get this. Take into account the lack of a paying playerbase you get a slap on the wrist and good stern automated email.
 

Capt. Lucky

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Stratics Veteran
`
First they need to learn how to do customer service as well as the RMT sites. On a lot of things, if BS sold em for same price, i would still use 3rd party-because there is service and no waiting, having to call, etc etc
A new player can start today and see a 120 tactics scroll for 80 million. That's just one item in a list of many. I may have paid 2 or 3 mill back in the day? I suppose they could work themselves up on so many levels over ten years or so and catch up to us with skills, equipment and resources. Personally I don't blame anyone a bit for grabbing their wallet. The gap between the real vets and a new player is so huge I'm sure the game would end before they ever got close to catching up. Yeah they can get decent with a little determination and a lot of time, but they'll be second class for a loooong time. Plus it gets back to the eternal grind fest this game has become as you mentioned earlier. I dunno but I'm pretty sure a game is suppose to be fun. This whole RMT deal went out the window so long ago I can't even believe it's still a topic. At some point you gotta let stuff go and suck it up buttercups ;) Just my humble opinion. Wouldn't surprise me if "BS" was running a store lol
 

Lord Arm

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I don't understand why people pay so much and/or dont go get what they need, whether its scrolls or what ever. don't complain stuff is high, go out and get if u want or buy. easy
 

Lady Storm

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Over the years at many idoc's I have picked up tons of ore, ingots, cloth, wood, and regents that others found ether too cumbersome to carry or not worth the time to pick up.
It adds up.
I have mined, chopped and collected things for my crafters over that same time... if my day has been too busy.... mining can take off the pressure of the day.

But first I think I best clear up a tiny misconception Keith has....
EA has never gone after the RMT ... So blaming all on the current LP is moot kiddo.
She is just following policy, EA deems the correct way to go and she has little power to change what they want.
I think you all give her a lot of power she doesn't have. Running the game yes... making changes that bring EA more $ ok, but going against their will....
They at the end of the day still own UO.

Now back to the subject:
Selling the stuff is not the answer... its not part of the game and don't hand me you don't have the time.... this is a point not lost on us.
The game's point is working through the effort to make a life in UO. Handing a player all they need by way of spending cash is not teaching them.
Yes players may only have under an hour to play and do things to get somewhere but that's what the next times play is for.
This I can explain easy.
Its the old adage.. of the man and fish...
Give a fish and they eat but learn nothing.
Teach them to catch the fish a skill is learned to feed themselves and their family...
I cant stop the RMT... that ship sailed almost 20 years ago.
What Mesanna and the Dev did with the Bulk Order rewards was make it better to dig your own up...
 

Uriah Heep

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A new player can start today and see a 120 tactics scroll for 80 million. That's just one item in a list of many. I may have paid 2 or 3 mill back in the day? I suppose they could work themselves up on so many levels over ten years or so and catch up to us with skills, equipment and resources. Personally I don't blame anyone a bit for grabbing their wallet. The gap between the real vets and a new player is so huge I'm sure the game would end before they ever got close to catching up. Yeah they can get decent with a little determination and a lot of time, but they'll be second class for a loooong time. Plus it gets back to the eternal grind fest this game has become as you mentioned earlier. I dunno but I'm pretty sure a game is suppose to be fun. This whole RMT deal went out the window so long ago I can't even believe it's still a topic. At some point you gotta let stuff go and suck it up buttercups ;) Just my humble opinion. Wouldn't surprise me if "BS" was running a store lol

And the high outrageous ridiculous prices on Powerscrolls can be laid at the doorstep of one person. Mesanna, They brought in a whole new system, (pets) to eat up allk the scrolls out there and create a new demand for them, and didn't bother to add them to any ilsh.tok/trammel spawn or anything. Once again, feeding their buds in the PS market. So yeajh, a new player won't be getting any powerscrolls, unless he either buys a buttload of gold, or buys the scrolls themselves from an RMT site.

With their actions, the devs are supporting and aiding the RMT sites, whether it's purposely or just out of negligence, who can say? *shrugs*
 

Fridgster

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And the high outrageous ridiculous prices on Powerscrolls can be laid at the doorstep of one person. Mesanna, They brought in a whole new system, (pets) to eat up allk the scrolls out there and create a new demand for them, and didn't bother to add them to any ilsh.tok/trammel spawn or anything. Once again, feeding their buds in the PS market. So yeajh, a new player won't be getting any powerscrolls, unless he either buys a buttload of gold, or buys the scrolls themselves from an RMT site.

With their actions, the devs are supporting and aiding the RMT sites, whether it's purposely or just out of negligence, who can say? *shrugs*
I hate to agree but I do. On all of it. Let's be honest, are you going to spend 60 million gold or 5 bucks for a tactics scroll?
 

MoxZinnia

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
As long as people are too lazy to go mine or chop their own wood these sharks will be out there.
For resources that is true. But housing sites are limited. If they are taken, there are not more out there to get. So what can UO do to provide more housing to break the RMT monopoly?
 

Lythos-

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And the high outrageous ridiculous prices on Powerscrolls can be laid at the doorstep of one person. Mesanna, They brought in a whole new system, (pets) to eat up allk the scrolls out there and create a new demand for them, and didn't bother to add them to any ilsh.tok/trammel spawn or anything. Once again, feeding their buds in the PS market. So yeajh, a new player won't be getting any powerscrolls, unless he either buys a buttload of gold, or buys the scrolls themselves from an RMT site.
I didn't even think about new characters. With all the dungeon revamps most of these mobs have well over 100 skills. Someone coming back that is set on playing a warrior has 0 chance at being anything other than a permanent newb.

I was against adding scrolls to tram rulesets but after seeing these prices jump I think it would completely fair to add the full range of scrolls to Dragon Turtle. The ilsh spawns are just too easy to add something this important.
 

Uriah Heep

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In '97-'98 we didnt worry about taking forever to GM anything, it was a grand experience, brand new, and even if we came in a year late we could still be fairly well on par with everyone else. Especially if we knew a smith LOL. But now, nope, to compete ya gotta ahve the scrolls, and expensive suits, no longer can you compete (with anything worth killing) in looted armor like most of us did. the returnees/newcomers need a way to get in the game quicker-whether that be by having way more gold at startup, or making the needed items more readily available, who knows.. Moot point anyway, we've been told before it aint happening.
 

The Craftsman

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In '97-'98 we didnt worry about taking forever to GM anything, it was a grand experience, brand new, and even if we came in a year late we could still be fairly well on par with everyone else. Especially if we knew a smith LOL. But now, nope, to compete ya gotta ahve the scrolls, and expensive suits, no longer can you compete (with anything worth killing) in looted armor like most of us did. the returnees/newcomers need a way to get in the game quicker-whether that be by having way more gold at startup, or making the needed items more readily available, who knows.. Moot point anyway, we've been told before it aint happening.
Agreed. Which is why EJ doesnt stand a hope in hell of bringing in players ... they are simply too far behind the curve. Prices and gear are insane. On a clean shard with a level playing field however, players can compete with each other without being 20 years behind ...
 

Lord Frodo

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Agreed. Which is why EJ doesnt stand a hope in hell of bringing in players ... they are simply too far behind the curve. Prices and gear are insane. On a clean shard with a level playing field however, players can compete with each other without being 20 years behind ...
If EJ is just the Trial Account without the time limit on it PSs are not allowed. 14 days is way to short of a time for a trial account and by going with EJ their hope will be that they upgrade to full accounts.
 

MalagAste

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If EJ is just the Trial Account without the time limit on it PSs are not allowed. 14 days is way to short of a time for a trial account and by going with EJ their hope will be that they upgrade to full accounts.
From what I hear it isn't just like the Trial Account... it's far different infact they said that people on EJ can do champs and gather scrolls.... which if they are newbs I laugh at... sure they can.... and some vet will come along smash them and take it away.
 

Lord Frodo

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From what I hear it isn't just like the Trial Account... it's far different infact they said that people on EJ can do champs and gather scrolls.... which if they are newbs I laugh at... sure they can.... and some vet will come along smash them and take it away.
Where did your hear this?
 

Lady Storm

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The Craftsman idea of a new shard is not going to happen ether...
Think about it...
When Lake A came in I along with nearly 3/4 of the other players bought the advanced character model and was able in no time to place a castle...
This was the same when Origin came in, only this time the Dev got smart and didn't allow the token to be used.... but UO players are a smart lot.
In under a day there was 120 tamers, warriors and necros.... elder players knew how to make gold legally.
I myself with a few hours to build up the right amount of resources and gold starter I needed made enough to place 3 castles in under 3 days.
Knowledge is power and that power is the basis of UO gold production.
A new shard would only give those with this knowledge the foot up to filling the place with castles and alienating the new guys.
EJ is only a way to give the trial account new players a longer time to get the feel for the game... 14 days in this day and age is not long enough.
 

Capt. Lucky

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In '97-'98 we didnt worry about taking forever to GM anything, it was a grand experience, brand new, and even if we came in a year late we could still be fairly well on par with everyone else. Especially if we knew a smith LOL. But now, nope, to compete ya gotta ahve the scrolls, and expensive suits, no longer can you compete (with anything worth killing) in looted armor like most of us did. the returnees/newcomers need a way to get in the game quicker-whether that be by having way more gold at startup, or making the needed items more readily available, who knows.. Moot point anyway, we've been told before it aint happening.
When Legends opened I created a brand new tailor there. I grinded shirts and was able to build a large mage tower in maybe a day or so. New people can't do that kinda thing anymore. Can you imagine new players grinding earth elementals or something trying to get 80 mill for just one scroll? lol Good luck with that!
 

The Craftsman

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A new shard would only give those with this knowledge the foot up to filling the place with castles and alienating the new guys.
As oppossed to the EJ in which existing players already have a 20 year 'foot up' in some cases, and will alienate new players
 

MoxZinnia

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I don't think EJ is for new players. I think it is for old players with fallow accounts. It will allow them check in with UO without having to sub. Will it lead them to sub if there are no housing spots that aren't RMT? There was also a pay for storage thing connected to EJ that was mentioned. I am not sure how it will work though.
 

Lady Storm

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Well Craftsman your making out like these people are game illiterate. 99% chance the players who find us will be seasoned players of video games.
And yes MoxZinnia is on point many they expect will be past players who are not sure they want to spend that 13$ and a few weeks might make up their minds.
 

Lythos-

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Can you imagine new players grinding earth elementals or something trying to get 80 mill for just one scroll? lol Good luck with that!
While it sucks for newer players, think how much gold has been taken out of the game so far?
 

Tyrath

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Well Craftsman your making out like these people are game illiterate. 99% chance the players who find us will be seasoned players of video games.
And yes MoxZinnia is on point many they expect will be past players who are not sure they want to spend that 13$ and a few weeks might make up their minds.
Gone from game for a year = behind, Gone for 2 years = way behind gone for 3+ years = UO Illiterate.
 

Ruppy2

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So, is it better for the developers to "turn a blind eye" to the RMT and in part condone cheating, or have some integrity and do what is right? For me it's easy. While I LOVE this game, I honestly would rather see it shut down because of the rules being enforced than continue down the path of allowing (yes, refusing to enforce the rules is actually allowing, and condoning)cheating/scripting/RMT. That being said, I can say I know of more people who quit in disgust over cheating/scripting/RMT than any other reason.

What say y'all @Mesanna @Bleak @Kyronix ????
I don't think this game would have gotten to the height it did without rmt... and I'm quite fine with that.
 

Lady Storm

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Lore you just made my point....
Each person see's the game in a different light.
Some see a decline to extinction..while others see players eeking out to save their game.
In the past..
I saw a game healthy and working well but in need of the Dev to expand housing back before the damn bean counter's thought to make the game 1 house per account.
To me that was the final nail in the freedom of players. Limit housing you limit the game... the last straw for many.
I cant blame Mesanna, she was not even a cog in their wheel of power.
That was pure EA greed.
UO was a end to a means for them early on...

WE each see the games path and what we think will fix it.... Some day.
It's not one thing... no magic wand of one item that fixes all.
The game is 20 years old and some of us have put in that 20 years with it, knowing full well that good or bad not even EJ will fix it over night.
If ever.
I say this as a lot of games are thinning out..
This might be the decline of the gaming world as we know it.
As was pointed out once long ago
Nothing stays the same...even UO.
 
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