Refinements YES or NO

[Warpig Inc]

I voted yes. Let them continue adding to the game. Add things without telling us. Then just add 100+ more. Tweek that randomize that. There will come a time some player will crawl out of the slime becoming lord of the pond. On that day they wont even know what to nerf to fix that players clock.​

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There are those that strive to addapt and stand taller. Others sit in their puddle of piss complaining about gravity. Have faith that when everyone is running around fel yew gate with yumi spell weaver archers, riding ostards and wearing serpent scale armor without robes and cloaks they might realize it is not a guild thing.​

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Time has learned me. When my knee is hurting. They ask to see my pink finger. For some reason being told this may sting a little bit doesn't help. I STFU and don't mention my pinky finger pain. Mumble a bit and hope they quess right what was implied. Wishing the never see the other hand hidden in my pocket.​

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Refining is just fine the way it is. Make the materials hard to get and not scripting bait. I'm sure some mage will come here and compain someone lowered their resist taking more damage from spells. Their tears over the fact they can't hit them with their Plane Sword at all now. Hmmpfffft the horror. Got another story about an archer crying about their explosion potions doing less damage. Will run your tear buckets dry.​

 

[manufacturedsoul]

This just makes it far to complex for casual player. I've played for 15 years and it doesn't really make much sense to me and being that I mostly play casually now it's probably something I wouldn't even bother with. Id rather see stuff added in that makes me want to play not things that make my eyes glaze over while i'm scratching my head... That's a NO vote.

 

[Cetric]

Just please do not add the ability for medable armor to have this. on non-med armor, this is balanced, but if you add the ability to alter your dci cps to medable armor then i think things have the potential to get really out of wack.

 

[Thrakkar]

Right now, the game is more about the time/effort required to do bods, acquire runics, build armor, tweak skills and LESS about adventuring, completing content, doing spawns, doing peerless, playing factions etc. When the majority of your time is trying to figgure out systems to build a suit of armor - that to me is not a game. Maybe its a game for you and that holds your attention - but it doesn't for me.

But it sure does sound like you made it your game.

I never completed a large bod.
The only runics I ever obtained were hammers and those not higher than bronze. I think I have about 8 runics aquired.
I never built a suit with maxed item properties (no special ingredients).
I never squeezed item properties on my suits.
I never PoF'ed any of my suits.
Building a suit takes me about 30 minutes, then I have a max resist suit with some other nice properties.
I never train tedious skills to max. I train them to be usable out there and they eventually get maxed while playing.

Yes, I cannot solo peerless or spawns. But I still can kill them grouped with friends.

The game is never less about this or more about that. It's all about what you want to do with your time. I'm feeling sorry for you, that you think the game is more about crafting and less adventuring. But in the end the only person, who can change this, is oneself.

I surely won't bother with refinements. But all the theorycrafters surely will like it. So why not keep it?

 

[Theo_GL]

But it sure does sound like you made it your game.

I never completed a large bod.
The only runics I ever obtained were hammers and those not higher than bronze. I think I have about 8 runics aquired.
I never built a suit with maxed item properties (no special ingredients).
I never squeezed item properties on my suits.
I never PoF'ed any of my suits.
Building a suit takes me about 30 minutes, then I have a max resist suit with some other nice properties.
I never train tedious skills to max. I train them to be usable out there and they eventually get maxed while playing.

Yes, I cannot solo peerless or spawns. But I still can kill them grouped with friends.

The game is never less about this or more about that. It's all about what you want to do with your time. I'm feeling sorry for you, that you think the game is more about crafting and less adventuring. But in the end the only person, who can change this, is oneself.

I surely won't bother with refinements. But all the theorycrafters surely will like it. So why not keep it?

There are people who sit around the bank all day and never fight a monster. It is irrelevant for them too. The question is - if you don't use this system, don't care about crafting, don't care about making armor to survive the more and more overpowered mosnters added to the game - then why are you happy about our developer team devoting so much $$ from your subscription dollars to this effort? We are all funding this work that very few people find useful/wanted.

Wouldn't you want your developer team to do something more useful to you with your subscription money?

My second point that more complexity causes a steeper learning curve for new players which is why we HAVE NONE. The declining playerbase means less $$ which means less investment in UO which means less developers which means less content for all of us.

I favor any changes that encourage new players. I guarantee you there isn't a single person in the world sitting there reading the release notes going 'my God! I've been waiting for this additional complication to armor crafting and an increaded value to wearing dragon scale armor! I can't wait to sign up!" That is the whole freaking problem in short.

My $26 per month is being wasted on a game I'm watching die slowly and the people leading this effort have no clue. I've stayed and payed (120 months on 2 accounts) more than I should for this game in hopes that at some point someone there gets it -but all I see is a revolving door of developers and producers that are each time less educated and less aware of what the game needs to survive and thrive. Its like watching this game slowly die of cancer. Each stage is getting more painful and every day there are less and less players playing.

 

[Uvtha]

I favor any changes that encourage new players. I guarantee you there isn't a single person in the world sitting there reading the release notes going 'my God! I've been waiting for this additional complication to armor crafting and an increaded value to wearing dragon scale armor! I can't wait to sign up!" That is the whole freaking problem in short.

This is the same with every change. Its not like there is some mass of people who know enough about UO to know what specifically is keeping them from playing it, checking the web daily to see if they added that one new system that will make them play.

The extra complexity is completely optional, so I don't see what the fuss is about. I do agree that the system should be simplified, cut out the extraneous step of needed 2 ingredients, and cut the items down to 2 types, 5 quality levels each. Much better system imo.

 

[Uvtha]

This just makes it far to complex for casual player. I've played for 15 years and it doesn't really make much sense to me and being that I mostly play casually now it's probably something I wouldn't even bother with. Id rather see stuff added in that makes me want to play not things that make my eyes glaze over while i'm scratching my head... That's a NO vote.

Since you don't want to use it what good is it? And the only thing complicated about it are the extraneous steps, and the obtuse explanations. The concept is quite simple.

 

[Thrakkar]

We are all funding this work that very few people find useful/wanted.

113 people isn't a sample size, where I find, that it represents the UO community as a whole very good.

Wouldn't you want your developer team to do something more useful to you with your subscription money?

All of the patches contain some to a lot of stuff I don't care about. This one contains a lot of stuff I'm looking forward to get implemented. So I'm pretty happy with this publish.

My second point that more complexity causes a steeper learning curve for new players which is why we HAVE NONE.

Seriously? Crafting high end armor is the least thing, a new player will worry about.

First and foremost, you have to sell a car, which isn't shiny anymore (a.k.a. outdated look and feel). The graphics are old. The dev team ist wasting resources on an completely outdated client. The whole UI looks and feels old (just look at the crafting menus, disappearing and rappearing, when clicking buttons, quest items have to be marked one by one, the defaultUI of the EC leaves tons of space for improvement) You have no friends list, you have no in-game-mail, you can just join a single chat, you can't whisper to other players. Yes most of it is just cosmetics and convenience. But these two are exactly, why new players will take a look and even more important will stay for a while. Because without it they won't have the time to discover the jewel, that this game is, under it's rusted surface.

 

[Cetric]

The only bods i ever did gave me pretty tailoring cloth. Is that still a reward? lol

 

[Revan123]

113 people isn't a sample size, where I find, that it represents the UO community as a whole very good.

Please tell me you're kidding right? In national polls in the United States, your average poll of 1,000-1,200 people yields a sampling error of +/- 3%. The United States has over 300 million people. I doubt UO has anything more than a few thousand active players, and that's being nice. 100-120 people should be more than a sufficient sample size to determine the overall popularity of anything in the game. As it stands, it would take a 30% sampling error for this poll to indicate that most UO players actually want refinements. Things like this poll are exactly what the dev's should be looking at.

 

[hen]

We are now going to be stuck with refinements. I don't want them, they complicate my game. I have nothing against anyone in our dev team, but our 'Software Engineer' Bleak has been behind this along with Kyronix whereas our 'Systems Designer' Phoenix has been absent.
The whole concept sucks ass. The whole entire thing. And now it has dragged on so long that it HAS to be put in.
I'm scratching my head looking for the positives from this. Please guys just learn from your mistakes and let's hope future changes don't become such a cluster****.
Peace.

 

[Uvtha]

Please tell me you're kidding right? In national polls in the United States, your average poll of 1,000-1,200 people yields a sampling error of +/- 3%. The United States has over 300 million people. I doubt UO has anything more than a few thousand active players, and that's being nice. 100-120 people should be more than a sufficient sample size to determine the overall popularity of anything in the game. As it stands, it would take a 30% sampling error for this poll to indicate that most UO players actually want refinements. Things like this poll are exactly what the dev's should be looking at.

The only reason they should really be paying attention to that poll is to get an understanding of how poorly they are presenting and explaining what is in essence a very straightforward, and completely voluntary system.
Everyone who was against the idea in that thread seemed to be under the impression that it will effect their gameplay even if they don't want it to, which it will not.
I have a feeling that many of those people not only did not test out the changes to see how it would effect them, but merely skimmed or did not even read all of the patch updates.

Like I just simply do not understand it. Look at the page after page of confused and angry posts. Why does that not lead them to post some clear and concise examples of exactly how **** works, with their patch notes, or on a faq someplace to allay peoples concerns, or at least help them to fully "get" the goings ons.

I do agree with the representation probably being pretty accurate, I said the same, but people didn't seem to agree.

 

[Uvtha]

We are now going to be stuck with refinements. I don't want them, they complicate my game.
Peace.

Then don't use them?

 

[hen]

Then don't use them?

Like I don't use Despise on Tram or don't go to Covetous or Wrong anymore?
I've got a pk. Victims with 70dci are forcing me to look at this system.
The whole thing AND the weapons pass has been a fail. I am just asking the guys to learn from this.

 

[Orgional Farimir]

Please tell me you're kidding right? In national polls in the United States, your average poll of 1,000-1,200 people yields a sampling error of +/- 3%. The United States has over 300 million people. I doubt UO has anything more than a few thousand active players, and that's being nice. 100-120 people should be more than a sufficient sample size to determine the overall popularity of anything in the game. As it stands, it would take a 30% sampling error for this poll to indicate that most UO players actually want refinements. Things like this poll are exactly what the dev's should be looking at.

Please don't use Statistics 101 when posting about UO. It confuses the devs.

 

[Uvtha]

Like I don't use Despise on Tram or don't go to Covetous or Wrong anymore?
I've got a pk. Victims with 70dci are forcing me to look at this system.
The whole thing AND the weapons pass has been a fail. I am just asking the guys to learn from this.

Get on a mage, curse them, and see how well that 55 resist works out for them. What is wrong with the weapons update?

And why don't you go to those dungeons?

 

[hen]

Get on a mage, curse them, and see how well that 55 resist works out for them. What is wrong with the weapons update?

And why don't you go to those dungeons?

Because they suck! Create a char on a production shard, look at the void pool scores. No one is using it except a few psychos that like seeing their name at the top of a list. Go to Wrong, assassin honed useless junk. Despise is a great freeshard experience if you have your friends handy.
And do I need to learn to pvp on a mage to be competitive? REALLY?
Oh I am foaming at the mouth now. New stuff is great. But if new stuff is a pile of freeshardy botty poo poos then it enrages me.

 

[Revan123]

The only reason they should really be paying attention to that poll is to get an understanding of how poorly they are presenting and explaining what is in essence a very straightforward, and completely voluntary system.
Everyone who was against the idea in that thread seemed to be under the impression that it will effect their gameplay even if they don't want it to, which it will not.
I have a feeling that many of those people not only did not test out the changes to see how it would effect them, but merely skimmed or did not even read all of the patch updates.

It may not affect your gameplay in PvM. But in PvP, the world does not revolve around you. What someone else uses, affects you. It is the nature of competition.

 

[Cetric]

It may not affect your gameplay in PvM. But in PvP, the world does not revolve around you. What someone else uses, affects you. It is the nature of competition.

The beauty of the system in pvp, after they heavily adjusted dci down to 70, is that if you so choose to use higher resist caps, or higher dci, you are subjecting yourself to have a major weakness. In PVP, players exploit weaknesses . Therefore in most cases, you are better off to NOT use refinements, but some can value them as they choose. After they took out the overpoweredness of them, it really isn't bad. No one needs to use them and it won't hurt anything.

 

[Uvtha]

Because they suck! Create a char on a production shard, look at the void pool scores. No one is using it except a few psychos that like seeing their name at the top of a list. Go to Wrong, assassin honed useless junk. Despise is a great freeshard experience if you have your friends handy.
And do I need to learn to pvp on a mage to be competitive? REALLY?
Oh I am foaming at the mouth now. New stuff is great. But if new stuff is a pile of freeshardy botty poo poos then it enrages me.

Shrug. I think the new dungeons are just fine. People seem to like them, but I'm sure its subjective. I really don't see how in general they are different that any other dungeon (especially if you ignore the gimmicks and just fight random monsters) except that the monsters drop much better loot.

My point with the pvping is that not many pvpers are going to run around with 70DCI because as soon as any mage worth 2 cents shows up, they will be fired even worse than they are now. It seems much more oriented toward pvm to me, and pvmers are free to ignore it to no loss.

 

[Uvtha]

It may not affect your gameplay in PvM. But in PvP, the world does not revolve around you. What someone else uses, affects you. It is the nature of competition.

As Cetric says, unless you are pvping in a vacuum using refinements is going to be a risky proposition, because if you go one way or the other you will have huge weaknesses either against magic or melee.

Refinements are really only going to be a big boon when you know exactly what you are up against, in other words, pvm.

 

[Revan123]

The beauty of the system in pvp, after they heavily adjusted dci down to 70, is that if you so choose to use higher resist caps, or higher dci, you are subjecting yourself to have a major weakness. In PVP, players exploit weaknesses . Therefore in most cases, you are better off to NOT use refinements, but some can value them as they choose. After they took out the overpoweredness of them, it really isn't bad. No one needs to use them and it won't hurt anything.

Yeah, I'm not complaining about it. I was just making the point that any resource available in pvp, affects anyone involved in pvp, and not just the people manipulating those resources. That said, I don't think it's overpowered as it is. It's just stupid and ridiculous imo.

 

[Theo_GL]

Please tell me you're kidding right? In national polls in the United States, your average poll of 1,000-1,200 people yields a sampling error of +/- 3%. The United States has over 300 million people. I doubt UO has anything more than a few thousand active players, and that's being nice. 100-120 people should be more than a sufficient sample size to determine the overall popularity of anything in the game. As it stands, it would take a 30% sampling error for this poll to indicate that most UO players actually want refinements. Things like this poll are exactly what the dev's should be looking at.

Unbelievable - someone who has a clue about math!! You are 100% correct. Here is a handy sample size calculator. For a game like UO lets assume that we have 15,000 active players which, I think is a pure stretch. To have 95% confidence that the true answer is +/- 9% you need a sample size of 118. That means with random distribution The true split between Yes/No can be anywhere from 9%/91% to 27%/63% based on our survey above (showing 18/72). (Yes, I did minor in business statistics in college once upon a time).

As much as the devs doesn't think the stratics population 'mimics' the game - let me ask them - where are you running your poll? Who is your focus group? What 118 players are you talking to that even come close to 'favoring' it?
This poll is a statistically relevant number of people for the question at hand and is OVERWHELMINGLY negative. Obviously they have no interest in making their customers happy. Same story from the very top of EA to the very bottom and the caretakers of our game.

 

[Snakeman]

I voted No!

The game needs to be made less complicated and more fun, not more complicated and less fun.

Totally agree here, you hit it on the head!

 

[Theo_GL]

Seriously? Crafting high end armor is the least thing, a new player will worry about.

No it is one of the first things they look at. Here is the pattern:

* Create Free Account
* Get dumped into New Haven after selecting a random shard from a list 'because it sounds good' with no idea what a shard means
* Look at your pathetic 20 total resist armor with no mods.
* Try to build skills and adventure. Realize that any dungeon you go to is instant death.
* Learn how to use chat
* Notice PvP crowd on server cursing and insulting each other on how pathetic each other is and who is running from who and who's epeen is bigger than the others epeen.
* Try to get a word in edgewise to ask about getting some armor.
* After 20 min finally find someone who is willing to speak to them.
* Fairly knowledgeable smith asks them about 20 questions they can't answer on do you need medable, what is your template, do you need stam or mana increase, do you need lrc, do you need high fire cap for sampire, etc etc.
* Smith/crafter gives them an approx cost of 5-10 mil to build them a decent suit (powder of fort, ingredients, time etc) or 20-30mil to build them a permanent suit.
* New player decides they better try to make their own.
* New player goes and reads up on UO site to learn about crafting. There is no information on reforging and hardly anything on imbuing.
* New player finds stratics and tries to read up on what armor they should have and templates.
* After 2 hours of reading a long string of posts and expose's on the topic - they get bored and go play something else.

That is what the new player experience is like. ANYTHING the devs could do to make this easier would be helpful. I disagree that a new player is not looking at armor when they start the game. T hey can't get off Haven island without something better.


What could UO do?
Have a progression of 3 dungeons in skill level. Each dungeon can't be entered until a player has completed the boss from the first dungeon. Each dungeon has sets of armor that drop from monsters on the first level. A mage suit, a dexer suit, a hybrid suit. The resists in dungeon 1 are 50/50/50/50/50 across the board. Dungeon 2 the suits have 60's and dungeon 3 had 70's.

By the end of fighting through the 3 dungeons and killing the bosses they will be rewarded with a random artifact and have an all 70's suit with either lrc 100 or stamina 40 or stamina 20 mana 20. Nothing overpowered but a solid suit to advanture with, a path to increasing difficulty and a way to get drawn into the game.

The days of people putting lrc suits on vendors and such is long gone. You can make money so fast by doing other things - no one is funding their UO time selling 30k LRC suits. The materials to craft a 100% lrc suit with imbuing cost me 30k in gems and in the time it takes to make it - I can kill 30 undead guardians and have made 30k. Besides, the vendor fees on it would kill any profit before it would actually sell. Vendors in UO anymore are all items priced 100k and up for the most part. Rarely do you find any armor vendors anymore so as a new player unless you find someone to take pity on you and help you - you are screwed. It isn't like the old days.

 

[Uvtha]

No it is one of the first things they look at. Here is the pattern:

* Create Free Account
* Get dumped into New Haven after selecting a random shard from a list 'because it sounds good' with no idea what a shard means
* Look at your pathetic 20 total resist armor with no mods.
* Try to build skills and adventure. Realize that any dungeon you go to is instant death.
* Learn how to use chat
* Notice PvP crowd on server cursing and insulting each other on how pathetic each other is and who is running from who and who's epeen is bigger than the others epeen.
* Try to get a word in edgewise to ask about getting some armor.
* After 20 min finally find someone who is willing to speak to them.
* Fairly knowledgeable smith asks them about 20 questions they can't answer on do you need medable, what is your template, do you need stam or mana increase, do you need lrc, do you need high fire cap for sampire, etc etc.
* Smith/crafter gives them an approx cost of 5-10 mil to build them a decent suit (powder of fort, ingredients, time etc) or 20-30mil to build them a permanent suit.
* New player decides they better try to make their own.
* New player goes and reads up on UO site to learn about crafting. There is no information on reforging and hardly anything on imbuing.
* New player finds stratics and tries to read up on what armor they should have and templates.
* After 2 hours of reading a long string of posts and expose's on the topic - they get bored and go play something else.

That is what the new player experience is like. ANYTHING the devs could do to make this easier would be helpful. I disagree that a new player is not looking at armor when they start the game. T hey can't get off Haven island without something better.

Not been my experience. All I have seen is people falling over themselves to help out anyone new. THeres even a post here on stratics where someone offers a newb a free house for goodness sake. And UO is hardly the only game with idiots on the chat.

Could the new player experience be improved? Absolutely. But its not nearly as grim as you are making it out to be. An updated codex of wisdom would be a nice step in the right direction.

Could just point them to siege if the prodoshards are so cruel in your opinion. We have a whole organization designed to get new players off on the right foot, which includes gear, scrolls, advice, a free month of pvp immunity that pretty much everyone respects. And we have cheapy/newb vendors too. ;P

 

[ShadowTrauma]

The opening question was:

Do you want Refinements? YES or NO...

I was one of the earlier posters to vote "No, I do not want this.", and I must admit this was before they changed the 95% DCI to 70% (I am certainly glad they addressed this particular issue), however my choice remains same. I still would choose "no", because in my view I believe there are far too many issues with this new system that remain. Issues like an abundance of ingredients and steps to craft these items, the ability to trivialize certain PvE encounters (UEV's are already a popular farming spot), and the realization that with a system like this in game we may now have new encounters designed with the purpose of players using specific refined suits in order to complete them. If you are uncertain of what I mean, there are currently a multitude of games that require players to utilize different suits based on certain event mechanics, fire resist for the lava boss fight, ice resist for the ice king, max dci for the ninja queen, etc... What frequently ends up happening is that you (players) will now need to have an armory of suits for specific encounters in addition to all your other equipment (slayer weapons, pots, etc...), many materials will need to be gathered, much money will be spent, and even more time will need to be wasted used on preparing armor for said fight, rarely is it fun. - Granted this is a worst case scenario, but it is definately plausible with a new system like this in game.

Combine this new system with the already exhaustive crafting system we currently have in game and we are now in for even more tedium (if the worst case scenerio does indeed happen). Now I realize that some people may be excited for this new system and I would never dare to crusade my opinion against theirs, but I hope we can all see each side of this issue.

* I would love to see this system shelved until all the issues were properly discussed (doesn't appear this will be happening), and then the rest of this absolutely massive publish could then receive the polish and finishing touches it deserves/needs. *

Our game really does not need another system like this at the present time, however that is only my opinion, I realize it may not be shared by all, thankfully it seems that at least some do indeed share it...

 

[Theo_GL]

Not been my experience. All I have seen is people falling over themselves to help out anyone new. THeres even a post here on stratics where someone offers a newb a free house for goodness sake. And UO is hardly the only game with idiots on the chat.

Could the new player experience be improved? Absolutely. But its not nearly as grim as you are making it out to be. An updated codex of wisdom would be a nice step in the right direction.

Could just point them to siege if the prodoshards are so cruel in your opinion. We have a whole organization designed to get new players off on the right foot, which includes gear, scrolls, advice, a free month of pvp immunity that pretty much everyone respects. And we have cheapy/newb vendors too. ;P

I have found great kindness on Siege.... Europa is a very friendly shard as well... and Kudo's to Queen Mum and PAS on Sonoma but Great Lakes is a cess pool. I wish I could go back to playing Sonoma and others more but EA killed my return to brit houses and I'm not paying for an account on every shard I want to play so I've had to relegate myself to the great trailer park of UO that is GL.

 

[Tanivar]

No it is one of the first things they look at. Here is the pattern:

* Create Free Account

* Look at your pathetic 20 total resist armor with no mods.

A new player would have no idea that his armor qualifies as 'pathetic' as you call it. It's good enough to hunt New Haven and the low end monsters he would be training on.

* Try to build skills and adventure. Realize that any dungeon you go to is instant death.

The new player would likely be bright enough to realize that he isn't high enough skilled to hunt underground in dungeons and will go back to hunting on the surface until his skill numbers are higher.

* Learn how to use chat

* Fairly knowledgeable smith asks them about 20 questions they can't answer on do you need medable, what is your template, do you need stam or mana increase, do you need lrc, do you need high fire cap for sampire, etc etc.

Not a fairly bright Smith apparently. Even if the new player fails to say he's a new player, a bright Smith would catch on that he's talking to a pretty much clueless UO beginner and not ask all those questions you listed. He'd just make the new player a simple 70's suit for melee or magery, as appropriate, tell the guy about insurance, and give some advice relevant to a beginner on what and where to hunt, how things work so the new player can live long enough to learn more about how to play, and about UOGuide & Stratics as places to find more info on his own.

As for the cost of making the LRC armor for a new player, I just don't worry about it. If the new player feels he has to pay something for it, I have him gather some resource for me, typically some hides, wool, or feathers, which I add to my resource stockpile.

That is what the new player experience is like. ANYTHING the devs could do to make this easier would be helpful. I disagree that a new player is not looking at armor when they start the game. T hey can't get off Haven island without something better.

Sure they can get off Haven Island in that beginners armor. They just have to hunt monsters that they can do more damage to than the monster is doing to them. A simple concept most gamers catch on to playing their first game. The area around Britain, and Moonglow would be good hunting areas after leaving New Haven. MOBs they can whomp on to MOBs that whomp on them.

The days of people putting lrc suits on vendors and such is long gone. You can make money so fast by doing other things - no one is funding their UO time selling 30k LRC suits. The materials to craft a 100% lrc suit with imbuing cost me 30k in gems and in the time it takes to make it - I can kill 30 undead guardians and have made 30k. Besides, the vendor fees on it would kill any profit before it would actually sell.

Some of us get our fun crafting and selling goods and our hunting is mainly foraging for materials. Selling LRC armor on Chessie kept the vendor paid easily. Wasn't any hassle or take much time because, with insurance, there wasn't much need for a replacement suit.

LRC suits only cost me around 5k to make, and can be made fairly quickly. I supply an armor vendor on Siege. It's 48 Amber to 17% LRC six armor pieces and Siege prices tend to be higher than prodo prices.

 

[Nyses]

Balance issues aside, refinement adds yet another level of unnecessary complexity to UO, I voted no for that reason alone. I craft full suits of reforged imbued armor, but I really do not enjoy it any more, as I know going in, it is going to take WAY too long to put together a nice suit. This will only add to that.

I like the idea of the give and take, though.

 

[Theo_GL]

LRC suits only cost me around 5k to make, and can be made fairly quickly. I supply an armor vendor on Siege. It's 48 Amber to 17% LRC six armor pieces and Siege prices tend to be higher than prodo prices.

Gotta call BS on this one... You aren't appropriately valuing your ingredients.

I just made 2 LRC suits for new players and I give them better than just 100 lrc.

If you only do 100 LRC there is no durability (leather is like 30-45 base) and resists will be less than 70.

Craft out of barb leather (takes at least 60-70 hides depending on female/male). Barb leather about 60 per hide at least so thats 3,600 gold right there in value.
48 amber for 17% lrc but also magic residue. If it take 30 magic residue that stuff is at least 200 gp each so another 6k.
Add in some powder of fort to get to 100 durability for 400k and imbue some resist for another 20-30k.

So a decent 70 resist, 100 lrc, 100 durability suit takes about 450k in materials.... I'd hate to have anything less as a starter suit. The ones I gave away had mana 7, lmc 7 on them as well. So add in the relic frags and such and the starter suits I handed out were about 750k or so in material costs.

Bottom line is new players rely on charity in this game. The amount of time to save up the gold to buy and appropriately priced 'starter suit' is prohibitive. Once again, that is my point.

Thanks for the lesson on crafting though. I really enjoyed that.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Theo_GL The pvpers have taken over Help chat on Great Lakes?
New players are unable to log in to General chat. That's why I, and others, on Europa hang out in Help instead.

 

[budman23]

Well theres a surprise they dont get the vote they like but you are giving it to us anyways.
Its not a big surprise it could of been 100 to 0 and we prob would have still got it, i mean what would you put in instead of it ? LOL

Ok developers you got your way now please PLEASE stop adding to armour, this is being overdone, you added imbuing, reforging and now this crap all within how long? 2 years?

CHANGE SOMETHING BESIDES ARMOUR
CHANGE SOMETHING BESIDES ARMOUR
CHANGE SOMETHING BESIDES ARMOUR

No it shouldnt need to be said 3 times but apparently saying it only a couple times to you people is fail.

AND NO THIS DOESNT MEAN WEAPONS

 

[Lord Frodo]

Do you want Refinements? YES or NO....


My reason behind this poll is because I was talking to Bleak on Test Center and I strait up asked him why was they going to put it in when I see nothing but negative post about it.

His response was you guys are not the only ones playing the game then said he had to leave.... So I would like to see for my self how many people actually Like the idea of refinements.

This Poll from the get go was doomed to failure. UOStratics is not a random sample of the UO playerbase. This Poll should have had an answer "This does not affect me" or "I do not care" or "I will not use it because it does not work with my play style"

I am not saying this as a bad thing, UOStratics does not reflect the UO playerbase for one simple reason is that if this were true then UO PvP would be "BOOMING" Out of 10,000 UO Players if even %1 PvPed you would have 100 PvPers and you are trying to tell me that UOStratics only has %1 PvP Posters, now that is funny.

IMHO UOStratics PvP Posters are around %40-%50 if not more and that would mean that there are 4,000 - 5,000 (using 10,000 players) PvPers playing UO. With the way your question is asked all PvPers should have voted "No" and the truth is more like it does not affect them at all because they will not use it.

As far as what Bleak said is so true, WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES PLAYING UO. If all the players used UOStratics then your Poll might mean something, but then again people that do polls always ask the question so it tilts thier way to prove thier point. Alt accounts were used to further skew the poll and if you do not believe that then you shouldn't be doing polls.

 

[hen]

82% is pretty damning no matter how you try to spin it.

 

[Frarc]

*Wonders how many used/made multiple accounts on Stratics to vote No on this*

 

[Maleachi]

*Wonders how many used/made multiple accounts on Stratics to vote No on this*

*Wonders how many used/made multiple accounts on Stratics to vote Yes on this*

 

[xCatax]

*Wonders how many used/made multiple accounts on Stratics to vote No on this*

I feel sorry for you dont see most expert uo players in this forum posted in all these testing .
** Wonder the names who voted NO can be seen to make legit this 80% for you **

 

[Frarc]

ROFL.. experts.....

 

[Theo_GL]

Theo_GL The pvpers have taken over Help chat on Great Lakes?
New players are unable to log in to General chat. That's why I, and others, on Europa hang out in Help instead.

Might work on your shard - but not on GL. You can hang out in Help chat and talk to yourself if you like.

 

[KLOMP]

Stratics doesn't represent the entire playerbase, it represents a hardcore segment of the playerbase. So what, are we supposed to think the casuals are going to embrace this crap? Casuals are all going to scamper off to stock up on piles of nonstackable garbage and pore over charts? What a joke. If this poll is an inaccurate representation of UO as a whole, that's probably because it's too skewed in favor of Refinement.

This entire experience has been a minstrel show, a farce. Kyronix or whoever decided we were getting Refinement whether anyone wanted it or not, and the only "feedback" he ever wanted was positive.

 

[Llewen]

I don't see the big deal with refinement myself. I think it's a system you can completely ignore if you don't like it. If you do like it, it'll give you something interesting to fart around with. I think all the people that have been focusing on the dci aspect of refinement aren't understanding what the impact of lower resists will be. Personally I think that refinement will lead to specialized suits for very high end pvm'rs - for the most part. Anyone that tries pvp'ing with a 70 dci suit with cursed resists of under 50 is going to make for a nice pile of fine ash...

edit: High resist suits will have an effect on pure mage duels, but not all that extreme, at least not for high end mage duelling, as that is more about timing and interrupting than it is about maximizing damage.

 

[MalagAste]

Theo_GL The pvpers have taken over Help chat on Great Lakes?
New players are unable to log in to General chat. That's why I, and others, on Europa hang out in Help instead.

Petra I agree with Theo.... sit in the help chat the only one you will hear is the UOGOLDXXX whatever spammer... going on and on and on till you want to go insane....

No one uses help chat on GL's. I tried. I even tried making an RP chat channel for awhile but no for the most part only 2 chats ever get used on GL's that's Gen chat and EM Event chat..... when there is an EM Event. Otherwise it's nothing and the only useful stuff in Gen Chat on GL's isn't much. Most the chat is about who's what is better, who stinks at this or that and who's got what overpriced on their vendor for sale and it won't sell so they spam it in chat thinking someone might buy their highly overpriced garbage since they can't figure out why it won't sell on their vendor they feel the need to spam it in Chat..... thinking this will help them make a quick sale but 3 or 4 days later they are still spamming in chat about it. I ignore it for as long as I can.

As far as helpful chat that comes when someone needs a Circle and even then you might find yourself ignored because folk are too busy trying to ignore chat for all the William Wallaces out there who feel the need to fill chat with their own 600 lines of text a night.... about NOTHING.

 

[Cetric]

I don't see the big deal with refinement myself. I think it's a system you can completely ignore if you don't like it. If you do like it, it'll give you something interesting to fart around with. I think all the people that have been focusing on the dci aspect of refinement aren't understanding what the impact of lower resists will be. Personally I think that refinement will lead to specialized suits for very high end pvm'rs - for the most part. Anyone that tries pvp'ing with a 70 dci suit with cursed resists of under 50 is going to make for a nice pile of fine ash...

edit: High resist suits will have an effect on pure mage duels, but not all that extreme, at least not for high end mage duelling, as that is more about timing and interrupting than it is about maximizing damage.

Don't forget, this is for non-med armor, so shouldn't effect mage dueling

 

[Petra Fyde]

hmm, but new accounts can only see help! What would happen if you, and Theo, and several other like minded players started using help to converse with each other and avoid general chat?

 

[Lord Frodo]

82% is pretty damning no matter how you try to spin it.

No it is not.

 

[Cetric]

most, including myself, voted in this pole prior to major editting taking place.

 

[Llewen]

Don't forget, this is for non-med armor, so shouldn't effect mage dueling

Thanks for clarifying that. So ya, basically this should have very little effect on pvp, and might make pvm more interesting for the obsessive compulsives we all know and love... Like I said, I don't see the big deal.

 

[chise2]

most, including myself, voted in this pole prior to major editting taking place.

Exactly at the time we all still thought refinements would still allow us to get 95 dci. Then Bleak posted and said its only 70% now so that took care of probably the biggest problem. Really what we need is a second poll with more choices then just yes or no. I would like I choice for instance that says yes but wait for the next publish or something like that.

 

[chise2]

Thanks for clarifying that. So ya, basically this should have very little effect on pvp, and might make pvm more interesting for the obsessive compulsives we all know and love... Like I said, I don't see the big deal.

Yeah I think it will mostly be used in pvm. You might see it a little in pvp but I donlt think you will see too many people going around with a 70 dci cap.