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Refinements YES or NO

Do you want Armor Refinements?

  • YES

    Votes: 29 20.4%
  • NO

    Votes: 113 79.6%

  • Total voters
    142

Gidge

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Did you actually bother to read the patch notes? Heavy armor now has inherent LMC to offset mana costs so you don't need mage armor, and mage armor still drops on monsters, and is still a result possible with runics.
Yup yup Uvtha, I sure did bother to read it. Although numbers aren't my "game" the thing that stuck out most is that armour that I "like" will no longer provide the benefit of being able for my mana to regenerate as quickly. It's not about the mana use, it's about how fast I can get it back for me. my fighters run with minimal mana and i run with LMC now, and I count on the regen rate. changing the cost of the move/spell won't help me if I can't get it back fast enough. (Yes I did also read the reduction of the amount of mana needed for moves, so I should technically gain some goodness there.) If I counted on the amount of mana I had in store and new I could get x amount of casts out of that pool and the cost of them now would be less, I would be grateful I suppose being able to get off a few more. But that's not how it has worked for me. Can I figure out this new way? I suppose. I'm not a pvp'er by any means. More like a random victim. :) But when a monsters first defense is to steal all my mana LMC isn't gonna help but regenning some back will. It's a dance. And I find it just down right rude to pay 250,000.

Mage Armor Update:

Mage armor has been removed from imbuing, reforging, and enhancing. Armor now can be converted to and from Mage Armor by paying a Mage guild master 250,000 gold. Applying mage armor is still subject to the armor not having more than four properties or not being an artifact. Mage Armor now has an imbuing weight of zero.



Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange :D
 
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Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Mage Armor Update:

Mage armor has been removed from imbuing, reforging, and enhancing. Armor now can be converted to and from Mage Armor by paying a Mage guild master 250,000 gold. Applying mage armor is still subject to the armor not having more than four properties or not being an artifact. Mage Armor now has an imbuing weight of zero.
I take it the Dev's figure we're all struggling to get to the top of our mountains of gold before we suffocate and are trying to help? :coco:
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
That 'tedium' is the complication, how much play time do the Devs think the average Player with a job, family, and a life, have to run around and do all these added steps? It's like with High Seas and cannon supplies. Gathering saltpeter is such a slow process it takes hours. While you may get 1000 saltpeter an hour while mining if the RNG is in a good mood, that's only 33 heavy cannon shots an hour even with a zero alchemy fail rate. Then there is all the time making potash & heavy powder charges. Is gathering the Refinement materials and processing them going to take as long? A Player could have to sit a week watching his crafter use up resources if he only has time to play a couple hours a few times a week. Not exciting things taking so dang long to do could be why some new & returning players don't stay with UO and decide to go play something else. Yawning during a couple hour play session watching & stocking a craftsman isn't anywhere near as fun as hunting & adventuring for most people.
Well... the one is at a shop, so I doubt you have to run around. Its not hard to get, I just don't understand why they feel that the item you have to find in t chests etcetera isnt enough. I fully agree about the cannon thing. I have always thought it was thoroughly absurd, and haven't even bothered with it because of that.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Yup yup Uvtha, I sure did bother to read it. Although numbers aren't my "game" the thing that stuck out most is that armour that I "like" will no longer provide the benefit of being able for my mana to regenerate as quickly. It's not about the mana use, it's about how fast I can get it back for me. my fighters run with minimal mana and i run with LMC now, and I count on the regen rate. changing the cost of the move/spell won't help me if I can't get it back fast enough. (Yes I did also read the reduction of the amount of mana needed for moves, so I should technically gain some goodness there.) If I counted on the amount of mana I had in store and new I could get x amount of casts out of that pool and the cost of them now would be less, I would be grateful I suppose being able to get off a few more. But that's not how it has worked for me. Can I figure out this new way? I suppose. I'm not a pvp'er by any means. More like a random victim. :) But when a monsters first defense is to steal all my mana LMC isn't gonna help but regenning some back will. It's a dance. And I find it just down right rude to pay 250,000.

Mage Armor Update:

Mage armor has been removed from imbuing, reforging, and enhancing. Armor now can be converted to and from Mage Armor by paying a Mage guild master 250,000 gold. Applying mage armor is still subject to the armor not having more than four properties or not being an artifact. Mage Armor now has an imbuing weight of zero.



Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange Orange :D
Fair enough. But look at it this way, you can save slots you could have used on mage armor to imbue regen mana. I do have to admit I don't know why they decided to take it out of the imbuing menu. Reforging and enhancing sure... but why imbuing?

But, this has nothing to do with refinement of course.
 
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Sauteed Onion

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
There has been a lot of things said regarding publish 81, and I've been quiet about a lot of it, but I brought this up before and had a question then that remained unanswered.

Here is the current implementation:
Pub 80:
You will see no change from Pub 80 to Pub 81 if you wish to not use Armor Refinement.
Hope this answers your question.
^ Who won't see any change? Bank sitters. And even then, some of them that actually do stuff from time to time will. Crafters are going to see a change when people won't buy their stuff without certain refinements made to it. PVE'ers are when they see somebody who decided to jump on that refinement train will outclass them in every way. And mostly, pvp'ers who didn't choose to get into armor refinement will see the biggest change, because their buddy that did get into it is stomping their ass in the ground. Let's pull off the sunglasses while the lights are turned off and look at what's really going on.

I don't even pvp and I feel terribly for people that do, and a good portion of the people that claim to pvp here are jumping up for basically the same reason I am. I've said in the past I love to craft and half the fun of it (for me at least) is planning out the suit, but this is bordering the edges of utterly foul (somewhat deep into foul, and way beyond somewhat foul). The game has been more and more and MORE gear based since Age of Shadows, not that gear shouldn't help edge out a victory for the "geared" person/people, and less about tactical ambushing or general alertness. Did elemental resists really enhance the game vs. the AR system? Maybe until leather armor became more common for defense purposes than anything made of metal. When was the last time you saw a guy decked out in ring mail fighting in pvp? Now how often do you see that vs. a guy wearing a conjurer's garb over some leather armor? See what I'm getting at? Ofcourse you don't.
If this is true
Here is the current implementation:
Pub 80:
You will see no change from Pub 80 to Pub 81 if you wish to not use Armor Refinement.
Hope this answers your question.
Then why are you putting it in the game?

Especially when there are, at the time of this writing, 8 votes for vs. 58 votes against, (that's 12.1% to 87.9%). I used to say this as a kid, "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should". About a year ago, I saw some stupid sci fi movie about an alien chick that walked around naked killing people instinctively or something like that where the main protagonist said that too, but when I started reading about these refinements that's immediately what I thought to say then. Instead I asked what I just asked. I'm glad you guys recognize SOMETHING needs to get done with gear, but it's like you don't know what so you're just doing something.

I don't even know, and most people that are not digging these "updates" are probably at the same spot. Honestly, I think the whole system has spiraled out of "fixing" it as it is, to it needs to be completely changed and a lot of properties need to be either taken out or redefined completely. It's like all these modifiers and intensities have gotten so important the character's skill levels don't even matter. Not to mention we got people climbing around in game with insane amounts of +skill jewelry and equipment with templates in the high 800 to 900 categories. It's gotten so crazy now people make "crap" 100%lrc/40%lmc/70's resist suits for their miners/gatherers if they even have a miner or gatherer anymore. Think back about 10 years ago and what was your main character rolling around in? Would this situation even have been in your mind at all? Should it have been? No but it is, thus we have what's going on now.
I could keep going over alot of things, but I'm tired of thinking about it at the moment, and I'm pretty much only really interested about cinnamon rolls being added to the cooking gump. Meow.
 
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Lady Storm

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
First off this is for the OP ....
When someone in power walks in a different direction then you are and has not finished answering what you think is a reasonable question you can bet your bottom dollar they are ether considering your question and need to confer with others of his ilk... or The question in his mind is already been addressed and to answer is asking to reopen a closed subject in their mind. Not saying I know Bleaks mind set. But the latter seems the best bet.

Secondly.. Every time they try for a balance in anything someone out there is unhappy... In the past, it was skills. Too much wimpering in the right ear opened up the pandora's box that is the messed up skill balance we have today. Now players are wimpering to the gods ether they didnt get the amount of % off or on the items they use most.. this for goes everyone else in the game as they feel their needs are of utmost importance. They meaning the Dev know they are not going to get perfection that will please everyone. With even the small amount of players in UO that is way too much to expect.

I know you all really know all this.. but to admit it?
Well...............
We need less complication in the game and more ease of use.
On Napa last night we had a returning vet who was in a word : Lost
He read stratics for 4 hours... trying to compehend the changes he saw in the game.. I and many stopped to help him get back in the game and keep this valuable person we all need so badly. He was finding it was like reading a technical manual and he had little schooling in the subject. This is a telling sign people.. we have gotten so higher math wrapped up we forgot what it's like for a new comer or returning vet who has been gone for years.... the game has too much refinements... we need some semblance of simplicity back.
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Refinements aren't all that bad now. you don't need them, as they will only be for minor uses here or there. by removing the ability to hit 95% dci and instead making it 70, then altering hld, they removed the overpowered abilties of it.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There has been a lot of things said regarding publish 81, and I've been quiet about a lot of it, but I brought this up before and had a question then that remained unanswered.
^ Who won't see any change? Bank sitters. And even then, some of them that actually do stuff from time to time will.

From what I experienced on test center its the exact same as it is now. I was running around with leather armor, and was just fine. I put on some plate, and my stamina hardly ever dropped. If you are fine with how it is now, you shouldn't worry.

Crafters are going to see a change when people won't buy their stuff without certain refinements made to it.
Thats a big assumption. Anyway I have to assume its either going to be people want 70% dci cap, or just keep it regular. Other than that just do a custom order. Its one extra step, I doubt everyone will want it, and if you don't want to mess with it, then don't.

PVE'ers are when they see somebody who decided to jump on that refinement train will outclass them in every way.
No... they will only be outclassed in one way. The ability to tank. If you are currently satisfied with your ability to tank, this change will have no effect on you. The worst thing that could happen is someone ELSE is taking the monsters attacks instead of you. If you are solo, the game doesnt change at all, except for the fact that you may choose to make it easier.

Then why are you putting it in the game?
Because some people MAY want to use these features. What he is saying is if you DONT want to do anything with these changes the game will basically be the same for you.

Especially when there are, at the time of this writing, 8 votes for vs. 58 votes against, (that's 12.1% to 87.9%). I used to say this as a kid, "Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should". About a year ago, I saw some stupid sci fi movie about an alien chick that walked around naked killing people instinctively or something like that where the main protagonist said that too, but when I started reading about these refinements that's immediately what I thought to say then. Instead I asked what I just asked. I'm glad you guys recognize SOMETHING needs to get done with gear, but it's like you don't know what so you're just doing something.
Unpopularity doesn't necessarily mean its a bad idea or that in 2 months after the change people will forget ever being upset about it in the first place. Thats not saying absolutely that will happen, but... it does often happen.

I don't even know, and most people that are not digging these "updates" are probably at the same spot. Honestly, I think the whole system has spiraled out of "fixing" it as it is, to it needs to be completely changed and a lot of properties need to be either taken out or redefined completely. It's like all these modifiers and intensities have gotten so important the character's skill levels don't even matter. Not to mention we got people climbing around in game with insane amounts of +skill jewelry and equipment with templates in the high 800 to 900 categories. It's gotten so crazy now people make "crap" 100%lrc/40%lmc/70's resist suits for their miners/gatherers if they even have a miner or gatherer anymore. Think back about 10 years ago and what was your main character rolling around in? Would this situation even have been in your mind at all? Should it have been? No but it is, thus we have what's going on now.
I could keep going over alot of things, but I'm tired of thinking about it at the moment, and I'm pretty much only really interested about cinnamon rolls being added to the cooking gump. Meow.
Well that all is nothing new. Items have replaced skills as the base for characters years and years ago. Thats just how the game is, unless you play siege where items are less important.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Refinements aren't all that bad now. you don't need them, as they will only be for minor uses here or there. by removing the ability to hit 95% dci and instead making it 70, then altering hld, they removed the overpowered abilties of it.
Agree. I think people are getting way more bent out of shape about this than they probably should. I think people feel that they are going to be forced to adopt these changes, but they shouldn't feel that way. After logging on to see the new changes I don't think you will even have to switch to metal armor if you don't want to.

I do think they are doing a poor job (as usual) of conveying the way these changes will effect game play. They really need to have someone take the time and write out a series of examples for every change, so there aren't so many questions as to what is what. Leaving it up to the players to sort it out and try to explain it to one another, and we may sadly come up with incorrect conclusions from time to time.
 
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Sauteed Onion

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Unpopularity doesn't necessarily mean its a bad idea or that in 2 months after the change people will forget ever being upset about it in the first place. Thats not saying absolutely that will happen, but... it does often happen.

Because some people MAY want to use these features. What he is saying is if you DONT want to do anything with these changes the game will basically be the same for you.
I could get behind this if we were even 30% to 70%, but we're not even close to that. Siege is much different than any other shard, and I know this only because of what I read here. I don't play there; and have tried a few times over the years to get into it. I am genuinely glad you guys enjoy it.

No... they will only be outclassed in one way. The ability to tank. If you are currently satisfied with your ability to tank, this change will have no effect on you. The worst thing that could happen is someone ELSE is taking the monsters attacks instead of you. If you are solo, the game doesnt change at all, except for the fact that you may choose to make it easier.
If you've got more ability to tank, you've got more ability to focus on doing damage, cause you've got less to worry about healing/whatever else. I don't mean to come off as abrasive and jerko'ish, and I admit my understanding of the new patches is not 100% clear, nor do I think they are stating what's going in a clear or concise manner; which is kinda good and bad at the same time. It leaves room to jiggle it around as needed til it makes something closer to sense than it did when said.

I loved UO for a long time, I still do. I think a lot of people still do. Some people argue introducing Trammel is god awful, some people think Age of Shadows was the breaking point, others will say they had a great time til Mondain's Legacy. Imo the game peaked for me just before Mondain's, and I started dipping in and out for 6-7 months at a time. And every time I came back it just got a little more World of Warcrafty neon colored than it needed to. To which many said, hey if you don't like the neon colors they got dyes.. duh. I don't like seeing multicolored random igmos running around. Try convincing them to dye their stuff into some decent coloration. They actually revel in looking like a blind 80's fashion person dressed them up for school. Cool. I guess. I never really get into complaining about it though because honestly, a guy with bright green hair, orange leggings, a purple pitchfork and dark blue gloves, wearing a bleached white samurai helmet or dark green ornate crown of the harrower does not confer bonuses over a guy wearing normal colored same stuff. And I can play the game and snicker about how stupid they look and they literally can do nothing I couldn't do. (Unless they are breaking terms of service, not something I'm alluding to).

The idea of refinements is cool. It's like adding imbuing on top of imbuing and reforging or whatever. Maybe it adds more incentive for people who've taken a break from tmapping to do more tmaps. Maybe it opens up a market for the selling of treasure maps themselves. But honestly, this whole refinement thing, on top of other available methods of producing already over the top crap is just a step in the wrong direction. What's going to be the next "logical" step after these refinements loose their luster? It can't be enhancements can it? Because we can already do that with ingots and leather and wood. It can't be "enchanting" can it? Cause that's what we got with imbuing right? I dunno, I just don't like where it's going.

Alternatively, adding cinnamon rolls to the cooking gump could totally make chefs happy. And I'm sure whoever got to eat them would be about 12% happier than not having eaten them.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me just quote the specific part that troubles me.
You will see no change from Pub 80 to Pub 81 if you wish to not use Armor Refinement.
Hope this answers your question.
That is not the same as, you won't see "much" of a difference if you choose not to use them.
A more reasonable statement to make would be
You will see no change in wearing stupidly hued armor if you wish not to hue your armor stupidly.
Being hued to look like vomit on legs does not make one more viable in combat than someone who looks like pizza on legs. Running with refinements does give one an edge vs. a person who chooses not to use them. This is what I'm stressing, and I'll stick to it. Because if it were not this way, it would not even be used, and heaven forbid our devs spend time putting in systems we don't us.. oh.
 
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Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Looks like you need a degree in Engineering to play this game now.
No, they just need to explain it a little more clearly. Its not really that complicated. Also I think people should ease off on expecting to need absolute exact stats. Generally unless you solo bosses its not that big of a deal. Just know what your character does, and get as much of it as you have access to. No computation required.
 

Zosimus

Grand Inquisitor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Do you want Refinements? YES or NO....


My reason behind this poll is because I was talking to Bleak on Test Center and I strait up asked him why was they going to put it in when I see nothing but negative post about it.

His response was you guys are not the only ones playing the game then said he had to leave.... So I would like to see for my self how many people actually Like the idea of refinements.

Let me give you a quote from a Dev in GW2 just to see how devs view things.


We read the thread. I won’t point out the suggestions we took, but we did take some from it. One of my jobs is to look at that feedback and figure out what the actual desire of the player is. Reducing mob HP for instance, isn't just a call for lower HP… it’s for a quicker less grindy Mob experience. It’s my duty to take that feedback and do something with it.
Also you have to realize that forums can’t dictate what we do. The people who go to forums are a very small percentage, and usually they are going there to discuss a problem. Otherwise the 50 people who post in a popular thread would dictate the direction of the game, and we can’t have that.

As many posters here have guesstimated the UO player base and if those numbers are true then smallest percentage of those numbers actually post here or there would be at least thousands of posters posting on topics everyday. I guess that is how the UO devs view the same here.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I could get behind this if we were even 30% to 70%, but we're not even close to that. Siege is much different than any other shard, and I know this only because of what I read here. I don't play there; and have tried a few times over the years to get into it. I am genuinely glad you guys enjoy it.
All I really meant was that on siege people don't worry about having a perfected suit (some do, of course, but most don't) and we do everything that you can do on a regular shard with no issues. I think people get hung up on feeling that their suit MUST be the exact top, or must fall into some exact range or they simply can't leave the house, but thats not true. Its freeing really, to know you don't have to spend months making a suit. Especially with the commonality of relic frags now, its super easy to get a suit that can do practically anything. Refinment just offers you another avenue to explore.

If you've got more ability to tank, you've got more ability to focus on doing damage, cause you've got less to worry about healing/whatever else. I don't mean to come off as abrasive and jerko'ish, and I admit my understanding of the new patches is not 100% clear, nor do I think they are stating what's going in a clear or concise manner; which is kinda good and bad at the same time. It leaves room to jiggle it around as needed til it makes something closer to sense than it did when said.
I suppose that is technically true, BUT while that person is tanking, you are free of getting hit at all, so you should both be doing just fine damage. I really look at it as a boon because it might free up people to not have to use dragons to tank some bosses. Nothing against tamers, I am one, but it would just be nice if you could use people to tank rather than pets if you wanted.

I will certainly agree that they need to convey their ideas much more clearly, with extensive examples, and I don't understand why they don't. It just makes it harder on everyone and I refuse to believe it would take that long.

I loved UO for a long time, I still do. I think a lot of people still do. Some people argue introducing Trammel is god awful, some people think Age of Shadows was the breaking point, others will say they had a great time til Mondain's Legacy. Imo the game peaked for me just before Mondain's, and I started dipping in and out for 6-7 months at a time. And every time I came back it just got a little more World of Warcrafty neon colored than it needed to. To which many said, hey if you don't like the neon colors they got dyes.. duh. I don't like seeing multicolored random igmos running around. Try convincing them to dye their stuff into some decent coloration. They actually revel in looking like a blind 80's fashion person dressed them up for school. Cool. I guess. I never really get into complaining about it though because honestly, a guy with bright green hair, orange leggings, a purple pitchfork and dark blue gloves, wearing a bleached white samurai helmet or dark green ornate crown of the harrower does not confer bonuses over a guy wearing normal colored same stuff. And I can play the game and snicker about how stupid they look and they literally can do nothing I couldn't do. (Unless they are breaking terms of service, not something I'm alluding to).
I agree with the horrible colors of the AOS era, but thats not an issue so much anymore with all the plant dyes and rare dyes and bleach to stip colors. I think we have more control over what we look like now than we have since the pre ren days.

The idea of refinements is cool. It's like adding imbuing on top of imbuing and reforging or whatever. Maybe it adds more incentive for people who've taken a break from tmapping to do more tmaps. Maybe it opens up a market for the selling of treasure maps themselves. But honestly, this whole refinement thing, on top of other available methods of producing already over the top crap is just a step in the wrong direction. What's going to be the next "logical" step after these refinements loose their luster? It can't be enhancements can it? Because we can already do that with ingots and leather and wood. It can't be "enchanting" can it? Cause that's what we got with imbuing right? I dunno, I just don't like where it's going.

I do agree though that they should probably revamp crafting altogether, to mix all of these steps into a more intuitive single process. But I doubt that will happen, and jeepers... just imagine the negative response that would get. :p


That is not the same as, you won't see "much" of a difference if you choose not to use them.
A more reasonable statement to make would be

Being hued to look like vomit on legs does not make one more viable in combat than someone who looks like pizza on legs. Running with refinements does give one an edge vs. a person who chooses not to use them. This is what I'm stressing, and I'll stick to it. Because if it were not this way, it would not even be used, and heaven forbid our devs spend time putting in systems we don't us.. oh.
I mean, yes, it DOES give you an edge, but so does say having a suit made of clean legendary artifacts. Its ok. Some people want to dig in and make crazy perfect stats, but the rest of us can play along side them and still do just fine. Heck if you can find one of those people and add him to a group, everyone will benefit.
 

Uvtha

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As many posters here have guesstimated the UO player base and if those numbers are true then smallest percentage of those numbers actually post here or there would be at least thousands of posters posting on topics everyday. I guess that is how the UO devs view the same here.
I personally disagree with that sentiment. I used to work in survey research and generally once you hit a certain number the representative accuracy has really diminishing returns. National polls usually ask only a few thousand people for example, and are generally quite accurate. You don't have to ask everyone to figure out the general consensus.

That said I agree that the designers can't let the player dictate the design direction. They should absolutely listen to players, but they can't just follow what they say. Simply for the fact that players are often thoroughly biased and emotionally myopic about their little corners of the game.

I think the reason as I have already stated above is really the fault of a but muddled design, and more over extremely poorly explained results.
 

Lady Storm

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Well unlike other companys who post up their numbers on accounts active... EA has always been soo secretive of how many actually play it is hard to guess how many of us really do exsist.
It is fustrating to not know if you might be at the tipping point....
It's not fair to just have us by the short hairs sitting on a razors edge wondering if we hic up will we be doomed...
Petra forgiveme for this ...
If the players of the free shards (waits for the axe) ever knew how much they have taken from UO and its players in not only bodys but years of friendship.. would they do it again? just to avoid paying 10 to 13 $ a month?? In my book its stealing away from us, the working gamer who pays in to have this wonder that is UO.
 

Vessel the Humakti

Adventurer
Stratics Veteran
I've voted "no", but it means just only "for me, unnecessary".
Someone.... Like Pure Mage, Archer, maybe it is good for them.

That is just only position talk. I wonder what is this voting.
 

Lug

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I voted no because there isn't a "HEEELLLLL NOOOOO!!!" selection.
 

Tanivar

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
If the players of the free shards (waits for the axe) ever knew how much they have taken from UO and its players in not only bodys but years of friendship.. would they do it again? just to avoid paying 10 to 13 $ a month?? In my book its stealing away from us, the working gamer who pays in to have this wonder that is UO.
I expect for many it was more likely that the official EA Ultima Online just became something they no longer enjoyed playing, so they went to a free shard that was set up much closer to being the Ultima Online they enjoy playing. If I were to leave after a future change finished off the fun of EA's UO for me, I would join a pre-AoS or pre-Ren freeshard. Something without all the items everywhere you turn.
 

Njjj

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Dumbing down a game usually means, that you'll get bored faster. Ergo less fun.
I kind of agree with this. I have always questioned how many of the people, who say they would prefer a pre-aos world, would truly have been satisfied with the old good, better, best system, for 15 years. But I suppose there is a happy medium that would apply here.

To those who are saying crafting is overly complicated, why not pay someone who enjoys it to do it for you? Seems like people want to bring back the community of old, but want to solo every aspect of game. Not trying to be disrespectful by saying this. I'd really like to hear the reason.
 

old gypsy

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To those who are saying crafting is overly complicated, why not pay someone who enjoys it to do it for you?
A valid option for anyone who has been playing a long time and has accumulated a good deal of gold... but for a new player, this could be a major discouragement.
 

Petra Fyde

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I've not really explored this properly yet, though I must in order to write it up.
As I understand it, please correct me if I'm wrong, to achieve this supposed 70 dci cap you would have to lower your total resists by 50?
 

Lord Frodo

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A valid option for anyone who has been playing a long time and has accumulated a good deal of gold... but for a new player, this could be a major discouragement.
This gives a new player something to build up to. No matter when you started playing UO new players never had the best of anything and if they quit because they can't get it now then UO is not the game for them. It is so easy to make gold in UO now that new players have it so much easier than new players back in the day. I remember my first 100K, OMG I was rich and the smallest house sold for 1M. Now you give away Keeps and 1M is chump change.
 

Njjj

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A valid option for anyone who has been playing a long time and has accumulated a good deal of gold... but for a new player, this could be a major discouragement.
I'm not sure. The general inflation that has struck the game can certainly be daunting for a new player. But speaking purely from a crafting point of view, I think there are options for new players:

1. Completely new players can probably just ask for a basic suit on chat and get one for free. At least this is true on the shards I play.
2. Players not quite newbie, but not in game very long have options as well. They can either farm gold or ingredients. In this way they can at least significantly upgrade their gear.
3. If they are in above catagory and looking for truly high end gear, they will have a long road ahead before they can get it, but I don't see that as a problem. These things should require some commitment to acquire, IMO.

I think at each level, the opportunity is there to get items that will allow them to play at a level that they can begin earning wealth to achieve a higher level of gear.

That said, I think some of the dissent comes from wealthy veteran players who are tired of keeping up with the crafting changes because they don't like the play style that crafting affords. So, to them I would ask why not pay someone who does enjoy it?
 

Tanivar

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Dumbing down a game usually means, that you'll get bored faster. Ergo less fun.
The trouble is they keep adding boring, multi-step process's to the game which require to much time and are basically just another grind. I'm a hardcore Crafter and have been since joining UO in the fall of 2000, but some things just seem to exist in this game for the purpose of making you nod off in your chair from sheer boredom, the cannon supplies making of High Seas being a glaring example. The Dev's have to realize that many players can only play a couple hours off & on at a time around job, family, and other RL time obligations. Some of the stuff in UO requires many hours of time in one stretch, reagent buying? gathering saltpeter by mining? the standard skill training? I'm currently training Discord. Hour after hour of repeatedly discording a monster until you wake up as you hit the floor.

I've decided to play around with making cannon supplies on Siege. I can mine about 1000 saltpeter an hour depending on the RNG which will make powder charges & fuses for a whole 33 heavy cannon shots. The Sea Market vendor sells saltpeter using the reagent system, starts at 20 and you have to build it up to 999 and it restocks every 30 or 60 minutes (I tried the vendor every few minutes over three hours while watching Avatar). Do you have the time to stay near your computer for 7 to 10 hours at a stretch to buy saltpeter? Remember it takes 3000 to make 100 shots, one to three hours after the few hour quantity buildup hours, even if you have no alchemy failures thanks to a great talisman. Anyone with a job, family, or other RL obligations can't. Dev's don't consider that though. Players who have limited playing time are basically screwed due to the time requirements some things have.
 

Zosimus

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I personally disagree with that sentiment. I used to work in survey research and generally once you hit a certain number the representative accuracy has really diminishing returns. National polls usually ask only a few thousand people for example, and are generally quite accurate. You don't have to ask everyone to figure out the general consensus.

I don't think 87 votes total is considered general base of representatives by people claiming on here saying UO has 60k to 100k accounts. Now if the number was 300 to 500 players then I would agree.

No what is true is .... accounts > players
If the players of the free shards (waits for the axe) ever knew how much they have taken from UO and its players in not only bodys but years of friendship.. would they do it again? just to avoid paying 10 to 13 $ a month?? In my book its stealing away from us, the working gamer who pays in to have this wonder that is UO.

Wrong assumption. They play them because they prefer a version of the game like a pre- ren shard or w/e hits their fancy. The issue isn't money. If it was considered stealing EA would of done something about it by now which they don't. Any game isn't safe when it comes to changing or updating a game. Some players don't like change and they move on to another if change does happen.



Look at it this way. The devs are going to put these changes in no matter the vote above. A decision is made and it will be tweaked and tweaked some more. It comes down to the player base if they enjoy these changes or not. Will there be a mass exodus like after the AoS introduction or a continuing trickle of players leaving in the past few years? Time will only tell. My opinion on the matter means nothing.
 

CovenantX

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My question on refinements is this.
Will all these changes change the way I PVM now? I have tested the Stam Lose with my current suits, copied them to TC, and the Stam Lose has not been affected. I have an all med suits (non-imbued) so it gives the same as it always did. I get the idea that refinements could help these suits but am I going to be forced to do it.? If not than refinements are an added bonus and those that do not use them should stay the same, so it will not change my game play at all.

As far as PvP goes I will let the hard core PvPers hash that one out.

You can't use refinements on med-able armor, Only non-med armor, thus refinements are a "dexer" only type of thing.
Refinements aren't bad now that the DCI cap is being reduced to 70, instead of 95.

It's more of a PvM thing as well, anyone who notices a person using refinement would pin-point the weakness and abuse it in pvp, so it would most likely get you killed faster in pvp.
 
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Lord Frodo

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You can't use refinements on med-able armor, Only non-med armor, thus refinements are a "dexer" only type of thing.
Refinements aren't bad now that the DCI cap is being reduced to 70, instead of 95.

It's more of a PvM thing as well, anyone who notices a person using refinement would pin-point the weakness and abuse it in pvp, so it would most likely get you killed faster in pvp.
Thank you. So because they fixed the Stam Lose in Pub81, all my gear is medable, non Imbued right now, this Pub will not affect my play style one bit. Yes I will make some non-med suits later on for my "dexer" PvMers and after the "How To Refinement" comes out play around with it, but I will still have all my old suits to fall back on. NICE
 

Lord Frodo

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I know you are very active in PvP and touched on it a little in your reply to me. So why do you think UO left out the PvPers with the Refinements? If this Pub really changes nothing, only appears to enhance/give varity, to our current play style then why is everybody WHINNING so dang much, I just cant figure that out. It has been a very long time that the DEVs have taken this long to do a PUB, good thing, and they are taking constructive feed back and making changes, another good thing.
 

old gypsy

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I rather wish "I don't care either way" had been an option in the poll. Although I have no interest in refinements, it certainly is no skin off my nose if someone else really likes the idea and puts it to use.
 

CovenantX

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I know you are very active in PvP and touched on it a little in your reply to me. So why do you think UO left out the PvPers with the Refinements? If this Pub really changes nothing, only appears to enhance/give varity, to our current play style then why is everybody WHINNING so dang much, I just cant figure that out. It has been a very long time that the DEVs have taken this long to do a PUB, good thing, and they are taking constructive feed back and making changes, another good thing.

Probably because they didn't see Bleak's reply saying the DCI cap is going to be 70% instead of 95%, and as usual, people are jumping to conclusions before testing or knowing enough about it.

If it stayed at 95% cap it would effect dexer pvp quite a bit.

They're (Devs) listening to the players quite well if you ask me, a lot of people didn't want the refinements, -I didn't think they were a bad idea, It was the 95% DCI cap needed reduced, it's being reduced when it goes to Origin shard everything is fine now. Big leap over how things have gone in the past. =]

Refinements are an option, NOT a requirement. (Non-Med Only, Otherwise it would actually cause imbalances)
 

Lady Storm

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Has anyone added ths up?
The cost of making just one of these suits... much less having spare parts.....
Gold, Time, Luck... yes luck.(rl Cash to buy the reforging tool) Think about it. you are looking at for a decient suit alot of gold poured in not to mention mats... you need alot of luck to get the pieces to fall in line for it too... hours of crafting and reforging, imbuing... why..... Do you really have that much game time to do all this? Having fun yet?
Mind you i do like to craft... but even I see the folly in this.
I do understand many of you do this for pvp....
Giveme back the time when a suit of the best armor was invun... the wep was a vanq (silver if you were extreemly lucky) No worries that the guy you went out to clober had better, he could only own and do the same..... balance achieved.
Now go wack at each other and do real fighting with skill and your own timing of blows....
Now that was working out.
I'd love to strangle*(medifor) the Bloody Dev who started this mess of mass esclation of arms.. god its beginning to sound like a war footing of some third world nation who thinks a Nuke will keep the world out of its business.
I do not know about you, but this is getting old fast....
With this everyone on UO will have to start to make the "NEW" armor.... I can hear it now the growns of ..But I just made this suit........ and now you tell me its trash??? It cost me ... oh hell with it .... I quit. I am not doign that again...
Think I am wrong?
People have left for less.
 
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Tina Small

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I know you are very active in PvP and touched on it a little in your reply to me. So why do you think UO left out the PvPers with the Refinements? If this Pub really changes nothing, only appears to enhance/give varity, to our current play style then why is everybody WHINNING so dang much, I just cant figure that out. It has been a very long time that the DEVs have taken this long to do a PUB, good thing, and they are taking constructive feed back and making changes, another good thing.
I think one of the main reasons people have been upset about this publish has been how long it's taken to get to this point in the process of rolling it out and there's never been anything said about whether armor refinement is going to be extended to meddable armor and if so, what it will look like.

At the 15th Anniversary party in late September, Mesanna said: "We want to revise the armor. Right now, leather is basically the way to go. We want to change that. We want to make all of it useful, where everybody can use whatever they want, you know, and not just use leather." [Source: http://uo.ultimacodex.com/2012/10/uo-15th-anniversary-transcript-presentation/ at 8:00.]

January 18th, Mesanna released a Producer's Letter that said the next publish would include revamping the weapon system and revamping the armor system ("Made all armor types useful again"). [Source: http://www.uo.com/article/Letter-Producer-1 ]

On February 1st, Publish 81 reached TC. It included multiple changes to weapon base damage amounts, reassignment of some special moves, changes to some special moves, and modifications to the mana cost of some special moves. The armor revamp section was titled, "Armor Revamp Part 1." We were told at that time that stamina loss would be based on the type of armor as well as the amount of armor equipped; each piece of nonmeddable armor would provide a chance to trigger a mana phase effect ("armor inherent mana phase"); and also that a defender wearing nonmeddable armor would have a 10% chance to apply a 5-second long SSI-nullifying debuff to attackers wielding weapons whenever the player takes damage. Being human also provides a bonus to stamina loss reduction. Ninjitsu's animal form became interruptable. Made some changes to throwing sweet spot hit chance and damage reduction penalties. Evil Omen reduces stone form immunity by 30. When used on multiple targets, Cleansing Winds power will scale based on the number of targets that are not the caster. Divine Fury stamina regeneration decreased from 4 duration to 2.5x duration. All stamina potions would have a global cooldown. [Source: http://www.uo.com/article/Publish-810-Comes-TC1 ]

On February 8th we were told that there would be an update to TC as early as the following week. It included a few additional reassignments/changes to weapon special moves and one more special move mana cost change. Instead of the "armor inherent mana phase" and "SSI Debuff," nonmeddable armor (other than woodland armor) will provide a percentage of lower mana cost, not subject to the 40 lower mana cost cap. Plate, ringmail, chainmail, and dragon armor pieces provide 1% LMC; studded, hide, bone, and stone armor pieces provide 3% LMC. The 5 pieces of armor that provide the most LMC take priority for this purpose. Loot-generated two-handed weapons could include the balanced property, but such weapons would not be able to parry or evade. We were told that cloth and leather armor and jewelry will give the same stamina loss as prior to Publish 81. Nonmeddable armor will be split into two groups for purposes of providing stamina loss reduction: Heavy bonus to blacksmith armor and light bonus to studded, hide, bone, stone, and woodland armor. This update also brought in "Part 2" of Armor revamp: Refinement for nonmeddable armor. Using refinement components obtained by stealing from certain NPC shops in Fel or as loot in treasure and MIB chests, merchant and pirate vessels, and champ spawn bosses and other components purchased from certain town NPCs, you can raise the caps on armor resists at the expense of lowering the cap on DCI, or decrease the caps on armor resists while raising the cap on DCI. The maximum increase to a resist's cap that can be achieved with armor refinement is 75% (80% for energy resist for elves). The maximum increase to the DCI cap that can be achieved with armor refinement is 95%. No cooldowns on refresh potions, but total refresh potions are converted to "greater refresh" potions and provide more refresh than standard refresh potions. [Source: http://www.uo.com/article/Updated-Publish-81-Notes .]

On February 22nd, the third update to Publish 81 reached TC. Gargoyle racial bonus HCI cap is decreased from 50% to 45%. HLD scales 55% of the players Max DCI, with a -25 penalty to the default max DCI of 45 and a -52 penalty for the 95% DCI cap. Weapon hit stamina leech subject to diminishing returns based on max player stamina. Can imbue balanced property on two-handed melee weapons; such weapons with the balanced property will no longer be able to parry or evade. Faster casting no longer affects animal form. [Source: http://www.uo.com/article/Updated-Publish-81-TC1 ]

On March 9th, another update to Publish 81 reached TC. This update made some changes to the NPC stocking of some of the materials and where you go to apply the refinements. It also slightly decreased the number of refinement components available and clarified the order in which the refinement modifications were applied to various types of armor. It describes changes to resist bonuses that that come from making armor out of various types of material. It indicates HLD is scaled 55% to a player's DCI and remains at -25 DCI against non-players. Ninjitsu Surprise Attack and Force Arrow will ignore over-capped DCI. Dragon scale armor can be reforged. [Source: http://www.uo.com/article/Updated-Publish-81-TC1-0 ]

On April 5th, the most recent update to Publish 81 reached TC. This update clarifies the number of modifications to resist caps and DCI cap possible with each different type of refinement component and adds a gump that lets you specify the order in which you want to apply the resist bonuses and the chance that one additional resist's cap will be raised. The Mage Armor property is removed from imbuing, reforging, and enhancing. Armor pieces can be converted to or from mage armor by paying 250,000 gold to a mage guildmaster NPC. The Mage Armor property will have a 0 imbuing weight. HLD is scaled 35% of the player's DCI and remains -25 DCI versus non-players. HLD will now ignore over-capped DCI. Added "balanced" property to imbuing for 2-handed melee weapons; such weapons won't be able to evade or parry. Corrected an issue that prevented reforging of yellow dragon scale armor. [Source: http://www.uo.com/Publish-81-Notes ]

It has taken NINE weeks so far to get to this point, with a huge number of revisions and additions made along the way. However, because Mesanna's January 18th letter said there would be some other changes/additions included in the next publish, we STILL don't know if what we've seen so far is "all there is" to Publish 81. What about "advanced tinkering"? What about the stuff that will be added for a new theme pack/booster? What about the idea of a second house on Siege?

Who really knows at this point when this publish will be "complete" on TC, has been sufficiently tested to publish it to Origin, how long the team wants it to bake on Origin, and when it will finally hit the other shards. I suspect it could be another month or more. It's great that the team is working so hard on this and being responsive to feedback. However, I think it would go a long way with the players and ex-players who might be thinking of returning to find out if there's more to this publish that we haven't seen yet but that's been hinted at and when the team hopes to finish pushing it out.
 
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Theo_GL

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Dumbing down a game usually means, that you'll get bored faster. Ergo less fun.
It has nothing to do with dumbing down the game. That is an asinine suggestion/conclusion.

The issue is they add tons of complexity where it is not needed nor valued.

Step back a second and take a look at what IS the game and what SHOULD the game be about.

Right now, the game is more about the time/effort required to do bods, acquire runics, build armor, tweak skills and LESS about adventuring, completing content, doing spawns, doing peerless, playing factions etc. When the majority of your time is trying to figgure out systems to build a suit of armor - that to me is not a game. Maybe its a game for you and that holds your attention - but it doesn't for me.

Having weapons so specialized that I have to switch gear depending on what I'm doing? That sucks to the point of I don't do it.

Refinements are just another area of complexity that is not needed. Armor/crafting is complex enough as it is. LESS complexity would be good and make all items more useful.

YOu know what completely sucks now? Monster loot. They changed The shame/wrong etc loot to these new peices of armor thinking 'wow this will give players something to hunt' not realizing that there is SO MUCH complexity and variability to the pieces that you never find a piece with the right mods and resist to be useful so pretty much 100% of it is simply unraveled. This is a collossal developer FAIL. It gives people no reason to 'hunt' or adventure other than to gather things to unravel for ingredients. You might as well make the ingredients drop on the monsters and save us some time. Now if armor had a simple 'Armor Rating' instead of phys/fire/cold/poison/energy then MAYBE we could find a piece hunting that we would use. I used to actually spend time looking at the loot on blood eles for maybe some jewelry or a weapon I could use.

Now, not a single item on my characters is something found hunting. It is either artifacts or crafted/imbued - period. End of story.

The fact that there is little reason to fight a monster is one of areas of the game CAUSING boredom. Why even leave the house when the best armor is me sitting in front of a spreadsheet with 3 hours with my imbuer. Where is the adventure or excitement in that?
 

Theo_GL

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I think one of the main reasons people have been upset about this publish has been how long it's taken to get to this point in the process of rolling it out and there's never been anything said about whether armor refinement is going to be extended to meddable armor and if so, what it will look like.

At the 15th Anniversary party in late September, Mesanna said: "We want to revise the armor. Right now, leather is basically the way to go. We want to change that. We want to make all of it useful, where everybody can use whatever they want, you know, and not just use leather." [Source: http://uo.ultimacodex.com/2012/10/uo-15th-anniversary-transcript-presentation/ at 8:00.]
Which just boggles my mind. Why is it so important to jack around with an already overcomplicated system just to make certain armor 'more useful'? In fact, half the armor isn't even a 'suit'. There is no bone gorget or chainmail sleeves etc so you have to still weave together different suits. The only full suits are leather, wood and plate. All the rest requires a mix.

You want to make all armor more useful? Do it a simplier way - imbuing max on leather 450, spined 500, bone 550. Or, max durability on leather 75, spined 150, bone 255 or both.

This completely other system to make it useful and stamina loss is stupid. Everyone is going to recraft to find a way to lose the min stamina and they will shift to the whole world wearing some version of plate/metal armor and no one in leather.

At the end of the day - what is this getting us in game? Is the game going to be better because half the world will now use plate instead of leather? How much effort went into this from a developer level?

What if.... the time was spent fixing UI problems, reducing complexity of systems/problems with systems like collection turn ins, high seas content, adding NEW content etc?

I'd take a release of 100 bug fixes, 2 new dungeons and a revamp over factions/team fighting over any armor/weapon fix and balancing.

That is my point - another case of too much hard work put into the wrong thing. Effort for the sake of providing effort is not appreciated. Even the smallest of effort in the right direction would be more welcome. When 85%+ of your players think you are wasting your time - that is not good.

A few weeks ago I put out a list of things I think are needed in game and it was 90% positive feedback. Why is this so hard? If you don't understand the game you are caretaking - get a focus group and take notes. Not everyone here has good ideas but if you get a diverse group of 10-15 people together and there are items they all generally agree on - start with those.
 

KLOMP

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"We will listen to feedback!" really means "We will tweak this for two months and then ram it up your keister with a broom handle when you still hate it anyway."
 

chise2

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Probably because they didn't see Bleak's reply saying the DCI cap is going to be 70% instead of 95%, and as usual, people are jumping to conclusions before testing or knowing enough about it.

If it stayed at 95% cap it would effect dexer pvp quite a bit.

They're (Devs) listening to the players quite well if you ask me, a lot of people didn't want the refinements, -I didn't think they were a bad idea, It was the 95% DCI cap needed reduced, it's being reduced when it goes to Origin shard everything is fine now. Big leap over how things have gone in the past. =]

Refinements are an option, NOT a requirement. (Non-Med Only, Otherwise it would actually cause imbalances)
Yeah I admit I was one of the ones that made an upset post earlier on this thread lol. But in my defense I think it was before Bleak posted about the change to 70 Dci :p After that I was cool with them. I do think people are really over reacting you wonlt even need to use these and with the dci capped at 70 it no longer comes with major balance issues. I was against them before but now I just don't find them worth worrying about.
 

silent

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So "other people" want this. Who are these other people and where is it you listen to them?? It can't be here from the poll.
 

Cetric

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So "other people" want this. Who are these other people and where is it you listen to them?? It can't be here from the poll.
Just an fyi, since i know it effected you a lot. I took a sampire in full plate armor, with a bladed staff with 50% stam leech. i had like, 5 or so stam regen sitting on the suit too, dunno if it mattered or not, probably not. But i didn't have any serious stam loss/leeching issues, mainly because i didn't take a massive beating in stam loss due to the plate.

I saw it dip down a couple times and take an extra swing or two to get back up to max, but it wasn't a big deal. i also was only like 12 stam over my needed stam to cap out (150) so there wasn't much room for error. My real suit would have more room for error. If anything, i think it helped to be honest. I was below my swing/stam cap less, but when it was lower it on occasion took an extra swing or two tog et it back up.
 
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Winter

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Just an fyi, since i know it effected you a lot. I took a sampire in full plate armor, with a bladed staff with 50% stam leech. i had like, 5 or so stam regen sitting on the suit too, dunno if it mattered or not, probably not. But i didn't have any serious stam loss/leeching issues, mainly because i didn't take a massive beating in stam loss due to the plate.

I saw it dip down a couple times and take an extra swing or two to get back up to max, but it wasn't a big deal. i also was only like 12 stam over my needed stam to cap out (150) so there wasn't much room for error. My real suit would have more room for error. If anything, i think it helped to be honest. I was below my swing/stam cap less, but when it was lower it on occasion took an extra swing or two tog et it back up.
Without having provided any real numbers... that was actually quite informative and helpful!
 

Uvtha

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Just an fyi, since i know it effected you a lot. I took a sampire in full plate armor, with a bladed staff with 50% stam leech. i had like, 5 or so stam regen sitting on the suit too, dunno if it mattered or not, probably not. But i didn't have any serious stam loss/leeching issues, mainly because i didn't take a massive beating in stam loss due to the plate.

I saw it dip down a couple times and take an extra swing or two to get back up to max, but it wasn't a big deal. i also was only like 12 stam over my needed stam to cap out (150) so there wasn't much room for error. My real suit would have more room for error. If anything, i think it helped to be honest. I was below my swing/stam cap less, but when it was lower it on occasion took an extra swing or two tog et it back up.
Yeah from what little I played It seems like if you wear plate you shouldn't have any issue with stamina. And if you want faster mana you can still wear leather, and it will be basically just like it is now. I think the armor changes ended up alright actually.

Fix the balance killing parry/evade, and drop the price on mage armor to something none silly and I think it will overall be a solid publish.
 

Cetric

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Yeah from what little I played It seems like if you wear plate you shouldn't have any issue with stamina. And if you want faster mana you can still wear leather, and it will be basically just like it is now. I think the armor changes ended up alright actually.

Fix the balance killing parry/evade, and drop the price on mage armor to something none silly and I think it will overall be a solid publish.
You might of msised it, but Mage Armor now costs nothing, it just counts as a mod
 

CovenantX

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You might of msised it, but Mage Armor now costs nothing, it just counts as a mod

But the problem I see with mage armor now, is that once you remove it from an Artifact or an item with more than 4 mods (reforged armor/mob-loot) you cannot add it back.
at 250k a pop you would think there wouldn't be any limitations on what you could add or remove mage armor from. (just to make it a more effective gold-sink)

It's not like there are any mages going to benefit from a 45-55% LMC cap or additional Stamina protection by re-adding mage-armor to an item with more than 4 properties or an artifact.

But over-all I'm happy with pretty much all of the changes in this publish now that they've been better balanced.
 

Lore Denin (GL)

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... the dci capped at 70 it no longer comes with major balance issues. I was against them before but now I just don't find them worth worrying about.
I see a ton of people posting this thought.... but since when is 70 DCI against 45 HCI balanced. That is the equivilent of running a 25HCI dexxer against someone with 45 DCI. Good luck with that...

I feel like they took a $1.00 toy, offered it to us for 30 and when we all said "No" gave us a special price of $15.00

Sure its better then 30.00 but are you really going to buy it for 15 when its really only worth a buck?

I like refinement, and think exchanging DCI for resists is a great idea. What I don't see is an understanding of PVP or Pvp balance and so the numbers being thrown out at us are just far overreaching to somehow encourage refinement participation.

Max DCI should be higher then Max HCI but no more then 10% (DCI 55%) at the cost of resists 20 resists. Then they could lower HLD from 35% to 25%.

We don't need these dramatic increases that will create huge imbalances, allow subtle changes that will have smaller effects but give a slight edge or disadvantage in certain situations.

-Lore's Player
 
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