Recent bannings: A casual players concern

[Serafi]

I would never knowingly support dupers by buying anything I suspected was a dupe, nor have I ever or will ever dupe. These recent bannings have made me concerned however that my style of play, even though legal - might be "at risk".

Let me explain:

I am a periodical casual gamer/hard core gamer - depending on RL constraints. I can play for hours on end during weekends, but have periods where I only log in once a week to restock vendors, sometimes even less. I browse Stratics sporadically, and not at all when I have time restraints. Then I want to use my free time to just play.

I enjoy earning gold through ways I find enjoyable, like merchanting, holiday x-shard trading, idoc`ing, fishing, crafting - to afford buying items I cannot get on my own. Although I have tried Doom gauntlet and Peerless, I do not enjoy the grind in these activities, nor do the RNG favour me much. So I buy these items from other players instead. When too many months go by without gaining me a Barbed kit lbod, I buy one as a consellation price.
I love how you can do that in UO, with no bind on equip etc., I love the trading aspect of the game, as well as the freedom in game play and player choices.

I play the cautious way - the same way I check for cars before crossing a road, or waiting for the traffic light to go green before I cross. I am aware of some of the highly duped items over the years and those I avoid, but I do not know them all.

Since I have been playing quite some time I have also gathered quite a few items over the years. I have no way of telling if any of my items are duped or not, despite being cautious. I was not banned, so I guess it`s ok. Last night I went on a shopping spree burning my recent savings, equipping my second character with high end arties and armor. I really have no idea if any of those I bought were dupes, even though I shopped at vendors I deem trustworthy - because, they in turn have really no idea of knowing either.

I understand the reasoning behind the recent bannings, and agree on the premise. But some of these I am questioning, especially if it is correct that the reason for those bans were duped gold on the accounts they had aqquired by selling items to other players. If I had not, for practical reasons,
decided to store all gold on vendors at my shop, would I have been now
banned as well? Despite playing the "cautious route" and playing legally but just because I had been selling off items to get whatever other item that was next on my list? If a set amount of those items I have aqquired over the years had been over what the dev team deemed "suspicious", would I also been banned? As I am aware of, there are still duped items floating around.

I have to wonder...

Is this the current state of UO, that one has to watch every step one takes in order to avoid duped items EA/Mythic has failed to delete from the game world all together? In order to play legally one has to read stratics and make sure one is up to date on the recent dupes that hits? Watch ones back in case the player you are dealing with has in the recent month been trading unknowingly with a duper? Make sure to "launder" your gold checks cause you have no idea where they have been? Only use items you have aqquired yourself? The latter means that UO moves to single player game, and I have no interest in that.

The above seems to be the current message from the dev team, since there are so many ways to aqquire illegal items legally and unknowingly - and I don`t see that being addressed.

My quesion is then this: As a legal, normal, casual player - Why is this MY problem?

I don`t want my game play to be influnced by dupers any more than it already has through the economy. I don`t want my gametime in the world to be dictated by dupers and EA/Mythic`s unability to deal with the products they produce.

I would like to see some Dev commenting on this, I would like to see some communication happening between those who were banned and those responsible for the bannings, and communication between the playerbase and the team.

My mission statement is this:

I will continue to play the cautios way as I have described, but I refuse to let this dictate how I go on my very honest day to day gaming. If that later on means I get over the item count of "suspect" items, then so be it. Then UO and EA/Mythic and I are better off parting ways anyway, as I would not enjoy playing in such an environment.

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

... <lots of snipping> ...
I will continue to play the cautios way as I have described, but I refuse to let this dictate how I go on my very honest day to day gaming. If that later on means I get over the item count of "suspect" items, then so be it. Then UO and EA/Mythic and I are better off parting ways anyway, as I would not enjoy playing in such an environment.

That's the gem ... nice post, sums up things very well indeed.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

That's the gem ... nice post, sums up things very well indeed.

Well they need to create born on dates like on beer. (sarcasm)
"puchased on 8/12/08"

I already posted the same fears. To be honest there isnt much to buy in UO. Once you learn to vend and figure out what sells, how to move new items, you actually make a lot of gold.

Things anyone can do.

The problems is, I could buy a barbed kit a week. Maybe for investment. Maybe for fun. I could end up with 50 over a year buying 1 a week.

Is that a crime? Well I dont know. And that is how my game playing is now impacted.

 

[Satanatra]

You really dont need to worry.

1st off - why do people insist it was a "MASS" banning. I mean how many people got banned? like 10? 20? You think that is mass?

I havent seen one person banned who wasnt involved in mass buying/luna vendors and xsharding. I havent seen one person here say there were banned who wasnt involved with one of the above.

The idea that innocent players were banned is a myth propagated by those who were banned. "but im INNOCENT!" they scream...


I dont believe that everyone banned was a hard core dupper. Im 100% certain that many if not most hard core dupers escaped the bans - or had temp accounts banned for it. I DO believe that the majority of the so-called "innocent" people were players with a lot of cash who REALLY REALLY should have known better.

They are paying a heavy price for it now.

You dont have to worry.

 

[GalenKnighthawke]

You really dont need to worry.

1st off - why do people insist it was a "MASS" banning. I mean how many people got banned? like 10? 20? You think that is mass?

You know, I asked them that directly?

Not a word. Previous larger-scale bannings have included an approximation of how many accounts have been banned. Not exact numbers of course, just approximations.

Not a word this time. That's too bad; it could really put this all into context for the rest of us.

Because I suspect strongly that you are right, and that in numeric terms this banning has been pretty small-scale, and that the vast, vast majority of us have got nothing to worry about. I know of rares collectors, IDOCers, etc., who have come out of this fine.

I do wish they'd tell us more about what went on...Because I have a feeling that openness will only help their case.

-Galen's player

 

[UOKaiser]

Well we all know already what was duped and what came out of the result of the dupe. Remember multiple val hammers where the result of the real dupe items but i believe they fix that hole as they mentioned and have already taken actions on suspected individuals innocent or not. Might still be more to do but really don't stop playing the game because of it do what you normally do I think ea is just keeping the paranoia up by not mentioning anything. Just be a little more cautious on the particular result of the dupe items. But looks like prices are back up on the hammers and everything almost back to normal.

 

[Jeremy]

It was about 150 accounts, all told. Not a terribly large-scale ban in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Minerva Foxglove]

Good Post Serafi. This is how I and others I spoked to feel.
I buy very little , but when I buy it is items that could be duped. No rares but powescrolls and museum and library rewards for my chars.
I dont like this feeling of insecurity. redeeding checks for fear etc. If its rational ot not , the feeling is there and makes it less fun to play. I picked up bod books and some low end crafting rewards at an IDOC and have felt scared ever since.
A month ago I had thought this as silly but with the lack of info now .. Im lost.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I hope more info comes out.
Whats interesting is that one vendor my have had at the time 20 valorites and 40 verites. Seriously. I looked. Stocked over 1 day.


It might be helpful (as I stated) that EA (at log in) states there is an exploit that has been used to create valorite and verite hammers, don't buy them.



That might help.
I dont know.
Call me crazy.

 

[Ender76]

I don't dupe, but do buy low / sell high to make gold; more of a scalper really. I don't know how close my account came to being banned, but i had/have 15 barbed kits (I bought for 2mm when mkt was 2.7mm; still have them since the market fell out) and 4 valorite hammers (bought for 28mm ish; sold 1 for 35mm, burned 2 since prices were plummeting, still have one). Has this round of banning made me more careful? Yes, but I think if we actually knew where they drew the line, it's probably more than fair. I don't believe all these people who say they got banned for no reason

 

[Serafi]

You really dont need to worry.

1st off - why do people insist it was a "MASS" banning. I mean how many people got banned? like 10? 20? You think that is mass?

I didn`t mention the word mass-bannings. Others have, not me.

The idea that innocent players were banned is a myth propagated by those who were banned. "but im INNOCENT!" they scream...

Mark me as gullible if you want, but when players I always thought of as honorable gets the ban, I am left to wonder. Since there is no communication happening, it is left hanging. That is poisoning the gaming experience, and diminishing the enjoyment. Whats more, this is letting dupers dictate "how you play". I am not at all comfortable with that, as it is giving them more influence on UO than they deserve. Give me information that is easily accessible through the game, make system announcements when logging in: Be aware of.. Let me as a casual player be enough informed to make informed decisions. EA/Mythic does not do that by being silent.

I DO believe that the majority of the so-called "innocent" people were players with a lot of cash who REALLY REALLY should have known better.

Having lots of cash isn`t bannable in itself last I checked. And if they had been heavily trading they could have been unknowingly accepting checks that were duped. As I stated above, if I had not for space reasons decided to store my gold on vendors, I could have been banned as well. Without even knowing the reason why.

Now then, what do a player like myself know about duped items? A casual player that logs on irregurlarly?

Heres my list, I am sure it is full of holes:

Valorite hammers
Since my smith bod-book contains the total of zero val bods, I stay away from these if I see them on a vendor. Even one for sale rings a bell, and many makes me tilt as the alarm bell rings so loud.

Barbed Kits
Since I know plenty of players that have more luck with the RNG than me, AND do bods extensively - these do not produce quite such an alarm. The number of kits for sale will though.

Marble table/ Tall statues
I had just enough gold once to start looking for one of these, then a dupe hit ( can`t remember what) and suddenly you could not buy one without it being a dupe. I might still consider buying a marble table, but then it needs to come with a history, and a form in 3 duplicates.

Something to do with a changeling thing, thats all I know. Have no idea what items were duped.

A robe of Tashkesh something? This was the talk of the town when it hit.

Vinecord sandals. I just know "about" them, never seen them.

Any hard to get item sold in multiples at any vendor will make my alarm bell go off. Same on an IDOC.

And that is my whole list. Gold checks I thought were deleted in the major gold-delete that happened a few years ago. I guess I am up to date now.

Now, I have avoided the above items for two equally important reasons:
1. I value my accounts.
2. I don`t want to support dupers.

My last night`s shopping spree where I really delved into my savings gathered me the following: Ring of the Vile, Crimson, Leggings of Bane, Jackals Collar, Mace and Shield glasses, resillient bracer and Stormgrip. Tilted at the prices, glad that I could afford them, Shopped at vendors I deem trusthworthy, but as I wrote - I have no idea of knowing. Neither do they, as they buy from other players as well with a mark-up.

Should I really know more as a casual player? Is that information easily available without having to sort through many pages on Stratics when I have some free time on my hands? Is that now a requirement to play UO?

 

[Lucy of Kenton]

you are right to be worried as i didnt own one runic on that acct or any of the other things people think is why u were banned.
there is always the chance u will log on one dday to find all your hard worked for stuff gone

 

[Beldon]

Jeremy said:

A runic? No. Two or three? Naw. Thirty? Probably, yeah.

I'm not going to give a specific number for the dupers to use to game the system, but it's high enough that most casual players won't hit it. The "innocent" guy who emailed me over the weekend had 160 or so duped items. Not so innocent. eh?

For the people asking for a list - it depends on the actual dupe. Some only work on specific items, some work on just about anything. The latter kind we can't very well warn you about. I suspect runics were the new hotness this time around because of the buff they got last winter.
__________________
E. Jeremy Dalberg, Mythic Entertainment www.uoherald.com

The example they have give is 150+ duped items. If you are buying items in volume or doing IDOCs I think you would have a reason to be worried. If you are not I don't think you have anything to be worried about.

Jeremy you need to beat your point to death. People keep thinking it only requires one duped item to get them banned. EA/Mythic really doesn't want people to believe this.

 

[Serafi]

Jeremy you need to beat your point to death. People keep thinking it only requires one duped item to get them banned. EA/Mythic really doesn't want people to believe this.

No I don`t believe only one item is enough to get one banned. If I did I would close all my accounts immediately, as that would be ridiculous in a game where duped items are allowed to exist.

What I do believe is that through normal, honest game-play you can aqquire duped items over the course of a long time, without even knowing you have them. Since these items ARE allowed to exist, and are not deleted by the game.

 

[Satanatra]

The honest players get ****ed over twice here:

1st because the dupers/merchants lower the value of their hard earned items...

2nd because in screaming "i am innocent" - they scare the crap out of truely innocent players... and in the words posted here "ruin my gaming experience."


Lucy - you didnt have any runics eh? how much mass purchasing? how bout xsharding? how bout a luna shop? Any of those shoes fit? If you are rich enough to mass buy/have tons of rares/xshard for profit... you are experienced enough to know the dangers.

Note: no im not saying owning a luna shop is cheating.... so do start that.

 

[MYUO]

It was about 150 accounts, all told. Not a terribly large-scale ban in the grand scheme of things.

Instead of banning a bunch of dupers and their supporters in a batch every 1 year, dev should consider follow-up with banning every month. When you see multiple valorite hammers sold on certain vendors on every shard (still the case after the ban) with suspiciously large supply, the vendors' owners should be investigated. It doesn't matter how much they are selling those hammers for - cheaters who escaped the ban are still monoplying the market. After 6-7 years doing bods, I can be absolutely sure that no more than 1-2 valorite hammers can be obtained each month on each shard without scripting.

 

[UOKaiser]

After 6-7 years doing bods, I can be absolutely sure that no more than 1-2 valorite hammers can be obtained each month on each shard without scripting.

Before the change earlie this year. No longer the case.

 

[MYUO]

After 6-7 years doing bods, I can be absolutely sure that no more than 1-2 valorite hammers can be obtained each month on each shard without scripting.

Before the change earlie this year. No longer the case.[/QUOTE]

Before the changes, it was stated by designer (Hanse) of the BOD system that the rarity of the valorite hammer is about One per shard per year. Even the change made it 20x easier to get valorite hammer, it will still be less than 2 hammers a month.

 

[Alvinho]

It was about 150 accounts, all told. Not a terribly large-scale ban in the grand scheme of things.

were they all different people, or were some multiple accounts on the same Credit Card, I only Ask from seeing posts on folks who had 1 account banned and were on their other accounts selling stuff off?

 

[Beldon]

Jeremy you need to beat your point to death. People keep thinking it only requires one duped item to get them banned. EA/Mythic really doesn't want people to believe this.

No I don`t believe only one item is enough to get one banned. If I did I would close all my accounts immediately, as that would be ridiculous in a game where duped items are allowed to exist.

What I do believe is that through normal, honest game-play you can aqquire duped items over the course of a long time, without even knowing you have them. Since these items ARE allowed to exist, and are not deleted by the game.

That part was for Jeremy. I have seen in other threads where people said that. If you are acquiring dupes one items at a times I still don't think you have anything... much to worry about. If you are acquiring 30+ at a time, then yes, you need to worry. And I agree if I believed they were banning for one duped items I would close my accounts and I would assume other people would(did) too.

 

[UOKaiser]

Before the changes, it was stated by designer (Hanse) of the BOD system that the rarity of the valorite hammer is about One per shard per year. Even the change made it 20x easier to get valorite hammer, it will still be less than 2 hammers a month.

Yes before the changes definitely Hanse was almost right on the money but didn't account completly for players who only collected BODS in there UO game or bought them from other players but still the number was close to his figure.

After the changes I have to say more than 20x times easier I estimated 1 hammer a month per power gamer,1 hammer every 2 months for semi-power gamer, 1 hammer every 4 months for average player,1 hammer every 8 months for below average player, and around 1 hammer every 16 months for casual player who don't really do bods and doesn't put too much time in game plus longer for weekend players or players that don't know what there doing.. I'm equating this to time spent on doing Bods instead of doing other things in game.

Of course I haven't being able to test this thoroughly but am basing this on my own bod collecting and friends bod collecting as well as the system and how long it takes to complete a bod and turn it in for another bod which is a couple of minutes per bod with macro on uoassist or KR client. So just give or take a week on each or so but I believe am pretty close to the calculation.

You can pretty much get as many bod rolls as you like for as long as you can as long you have the material to fill them and time.

Basicaly eventualy those 200,500,1k or more bods you have there will all become valorite bods. If you keep filling them till you only get valorite bods.

 

[Connor_Graham]

... <lots of snipping> ...
I will continue to play the cautios way as I have described, but I refuse to let this dictate how I go on my very honest day to day gaming. If that later on means I get over the item count of "suspect" items, then so be it. Then UO and EA/Mythic and I are better off parting ways anyway, as I would not enjoy playing in such an environment.

That's the gem ... nice post, sums up things very well indeed.

QFT

 

[Jirel of Joiry]

Jeremy said:

A runic? No. Two or three? Naw. Thirty? Probably, yeah.

I'm not going to give a specific number for the dupers to use to game the system, but it's high enough that most casual players won't hit it. The "innocent" guy who emailed me over the weekend had 160 or so duped items. Not so innocent. eh?

For the people asking for a list - it depends on the actual dupe. Some only work on specific items, some work on just about anything. The latter kind we can't very well warn you about. I suspect runics were the new hotness this time around because of the buff they got last winter.
__________________
E. Jeremy Dalberg, Mythic Entertainment www.uoherald.com

The example they have give is 150+ duped items. If you are buying items in volume or doing IDOCs I think you would have a reason to be worried. If you are not I don't think you have anything to be worried about.

Jeremy you need to beat your point to death. People keep thinking it only requires one duped item to get them banned. EA/Mythic really doesn't want people to believe this.

No 1 duped item won't get you banned. Say the words "DUPE, DUPED, or DUPING in game; BAM! a permaban and your house deleted.

Don't believe me ask Lady Damia of Legends shard. All she did was warned her guilld at a guild meeting AGAINST DUPING. She was warning them because many of them had expressed to her the "If you can't beat them, may as well join them." mentality. She called herself trying to (hopefully) PREVENT one of her guildmembers from doing something stupid. It cost her, her account. What a load of BS!

I know someone's gonna spout off about yeah, yeah and everyone in jail is innoncent too, etc. Well if innocent people didn't get convicted of crimes then WHY did a college law professor and his students start the Innocence Project? Don't believe innocent people are convicted of crimes? Ask Arvin McGee of Tulsa, Oklahoma. He was convicted in 1987 of a crime he didn't commit. the conviction was overturned in 2002 after DNA evidence proved he was not the perpetraitor of the crime. Feel free to google Arvin McGee or the Innocence Project.

I know I popped off in favor of what happened. Having taken the time to think about it and after what I feel IMHO is Lady Damia's wrongful permaban, I have to stand with INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

As for those of ya'll that like to scream guilty until proven otherwise may God spare you of EVER being accused of something you did not do.

Jirel

You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

 

[Pax]

Jeremy said:

A runic? No. Two or three? Naw. Thirty? Probably, yeah.

I'm not going to give a specific number for the dupers to use to game the system, but it's high enough that most casual players won't hit it. The "innocent" guy who emailed me over the weekend had 160 or so duped items. Not so innocent. eh?

For the people asking for a list - it depends on the actual dupe. Some only work on specific items, some work on just about anything. The latter kind we can't very well warn you about. I suspect runics were the new hotness this time around because of the buff they got last winter.
__________________
E. Jeremy Dalberg, Mythic Entertainment www.uoherald.com

The example they have give is 150+ duped items. If you are buying items in volume or doing IDOCs I think you would have a reason to be worried. If you are not I don't think you have anything to be worried about.

Jeremy you need to beat your point to death. People keep thinking it only requires one duped item to get them banned. EA/Mythic really doesn't want people to believe this.

That sounds good... except for one thing: Yes, "160 or so duped items" could be damning if they were multiple clones of some Server Birth Rare(s), very suspicious if they were Val Hammers, slightly less so if they were Barbed Kits, much less so if they were 1,000,000 checks (since that's the biggest they give and bank boxes only hold, even with the upgrade, 150 items at most), or not really that suspicious at all if the offending items were something that was in decent supply in-game naturally, even if it sold for a higher price.

By the above examples, it should be obvious that disclosing they were in possession of a specific high number of "offending" mystery items isn't enough to prove guilt, at least not in my opinion. What makes the charge stick is *what* those items were.

How they determined they were dupes would be nice to know too. Was it simply because of the number of items, or were they able to check the coding on the items and, in that way, *know for certain* they were dupes? Of course, there are some things that having 100 of when only 1 or 2 legit ones actually exist is a dead give-away, same for apparently very hard to come by items like the Val Hammers (didn't know until last week they were that hard to get, never had any use for them, so never thought about them one way or the other).

Be well - Pax
.

 

[Beldon]

No 1 duped item won't get you banned. Say the words "DUPE, DUPED, or DUPING in game; BAM! a permaban and your house deleted.

Don't believe me ask Lady Damia of Legends shard. All she did was warned her guilld at a guild meeting AGAINST DUPING. She was warning them because many of them had expressed to her the "If you can't beat them, may as well join them." mentality. She called herself trying to (hopefully) PREVENT one of her guildmembers from doing something stupid. It cost her, her account. What a load of BS! [/COLOR]

We do not know what was said. You are taking Lady Damia's word for what she said. We will never know. Hopefully it is policy to have transcripts of what was said to ban them. And that they have been or will be reviewed... prefer have been. If you think EA/Mythic is so throughly corrupt... I'll leave it there.

 

[Beldon]

There is absolutely no reason anyone should be banned for having duped checks. It is just too easy to launder. You should launder it just in case the gold was duped.

 

[Maplestone]

Don't believe me ask Lady Damia of Legends shard.

Next time I see her, I will.

 

[yanaki2]

i just looted a idoc on origin and got a ton of cursed arties. about 2-4 of each one, and im contemplating just turning all of them in for spring points just so i dont have to worry about them being dupes or not. it sucks cause id like to use some of them but i would prefer my accounts stay open.and now theres news of bannings just by saying the word dupe in game? what the hell. i am starting to more and more ppl leave. its frustrating. this is the first time in all the years ive played that i honestly dont know if uo will see the new year. at this rate i wont have to worry about shutting of my 26 accounts , they will do it for me. either by going out of buisness or by me buying/looting something and getting banned for it.

 

[Beldon]

i just looted a idoc on origin and got a ton of cursed arties. about 2-4 of each one, and im contemplating just turning all of them in for spring points just so i dont have to worry about them being dupes or not. it sucks cause id like to use some of them but i would prefer my accounts stay open.and now theres news of bannings just by saying the word dupe in game? what the hell. i am starting to more and more ppl leave. its frustrating. this is the first time in all the years ive played that i honestly dont know if uo will see the new year. at this rate i wont have to worry about shutting of my 26 accounts , they will do it for me. either by going out of buisness or by me buying/looting something and getting banned for it.

Keeping a couple of things probably will not endanger your account, but the bannings will change IDOCs. And if people are being banned just for saying "dupe", then I agree UO will probably not survive the year. It makes it hard for me to believe these stories for that very reason.

 

[Kaleb]

LOL no one would waste their time duping cursed arties lol.

As for lots of gold You have nothing to worry about if your honest. I have my fel 18x18 full of checks almost 3/4 billion worth and I didnt get banned. Now if your buying Gold from a broker chances are that it may be duped.

 

[Satanatra]

The bull**** notion that someone got banned for saying the word "dupe" in game is exactly the kind of INSANITY that drives me nuts. You cant truly believe that?

So you are trying to tell me that a whole GUILD sat around talking about duping (therefore it is likely to believe that every one of them used the words DUPE) but of course the only one who got banned was the one who was AGAINST banning. The one who said "For the Love of Garriot! - Dont dupe!" and poof - her account was banned by some language filter.

If you believe this for ONE second - you are truly a piece of dancing Brocoli.

 

[aavie]

Next time I see her, I will.

Please drop the subject with Damia. She is holding her head up high and trying to move on from the situation and I think its time we start doing the same. She was one of the few that was caught up in the witch hunt, but its time we all moved on and picked up the pieces. Stop letting others goad you into a verbal war and be the better man (or woman). The bad always take a few of the good at with them, Its a given. I'm sorry it happened and it did effect us all. But it is time to take a note from Damia herself and try to move on. Mistakes where made and many won't or don't want to realise or admit to it. Stop the petty fighting and put all that energy and effort elsewhere.

 

[Maplestone]

Don't believe me ask Lady Damia of Legends shard.

Next time I see her, I will.

Ok, I've done my homework and my interviews and have come to a conclusion of my own. I can't prove any of it and am almost certainly at least partially wrong, but based on the facts I know, my gut feelings about people and a few wild leaps my imagination can make, I have a pretty plausible theory as to how this all came to happen to her.

My theory doesn't give a casual player anything to worry about and doesn't require any ill-will towards EA or towards her. But no good can come of fighting this out in the court of public opinion. I wouldn't mind a little time alone with UO's logs, but that'll never happen. My advice to everyone (especially her well-earned loyal friends, whom I count myself amongst) is to support her but let go of the anger. Perhaps someday, someone will choose to step forward with new information. Perhaps not.

 

[Maplestone]

Please drop the subject with Damia.

Hi. Sorry - spent a long time editing my post, didn't mean to stomp on this suggestion.

 

[aavie]

Thank you. Its not that I was trying to make you personally feel bad, I just feel that no one, even us, can fully move on untill we come together and decide to put it all behind us.

 

[Pax]

The bull**** notion that someone got banned for saying the word "dupe" in game is exactly the kind of INSANITY that drives me nuts. You cant truly believe that?

So you are trying to tell me that a whole GUILD sat around talking about duping (therefore it is likely to believe that every one of them used the words DUPE) but of course the only one who got banned was the one who was AGAINST banning. The one who said "For the Love of Garriot! - Dont dupe!" and poof - her account was banned by some language filter.

If you believe this for ONE second - you are truly a piece of dancing Brocoli.

The original posting concerning her banning said something to the effect that she had mentioned the URLs of some illegal sites during her "Please Don't Dupe" speech, for the purpose of asking her guildies *not* to visit them.

Though my shard is Legends, I have no personal knowledge of the banning, don't know the woman who was banned, am not a member of her guild, and was not there at that guild meeting, so I have no comment past what I just told you.

Be well - Pax
.

 

[Kula]

Let's just ban everyone and save ourselves all a lot of time, money, and effort.


That said, I hate how people refuse to believe that innocent people could get caught in the wake of the recent bannings. The case of Damia is probably the worst instance of such an occurrence in the history of the game. I for one am disgusted by it, but after talking with her, I am further moved. She is truly a great guild leader, as she refuses to let this bother her.

Had it happened to one of my accounts, I would've terminated all my other ones and I would've burned my guild to the ground. She, on the other hand, has moved on already. I was ready to quit the game on her behalf, but her steadfastness on the issue is exactly the reason why I still play this game.

It is guilds, leaders, and people like Damia that make this game. For EA/Mythic to fail to recognize what kind of impact a single banning could potentially have on the game is negligent. To ban the guild leader of the largest guild on Legends without batting an eye, without warning, without notice, it is pure incompetence.

I cannot play this game as carefree as I used to, I certainly don't feel eager to log in very often. But I still play because of people like Damia - I log in because I love my guild and I love the community.

Good night, and good luck.

 

[Pax]

Let's just ban everyone and save ourselves all a lot of time, money, and effort.


That said, I hate how people refuse to believe that innocent people could get caught in the wake of the recent bannings.

Those people are being ostriches. If one chooses to believe that, in all instances of banning, there was no wrong on the part of EA/Mythic, then they don't have to invest any real emotion in the whole thing. They sit securely thinking they didn't get hit, so it must be obvious *they* are upright UO citizens. You can be sure that, if it was one of them who had been unjustly banned, they wouldn't be so devoid of emotion. They would expect people to believe them when they asserted their innocense.

The case of Damia is probably the worst instance of such an occurrence in the history of the game. I for one am disgusted by it, but after talking with her, I am further moved. She is truly a great guild leader, as she refuses to let this bother her.

Had it happened to one of my accounts, I would've terminated all my other ones and I would've burned my guild to the ground. She, on the other hand, has moved on already. I was ready to quit the game on her behalf, but her steadfastness on the issue is exactly the reason why I still play this game.

It is guilds, leaders, and people like Damia that make this game. For EA/Mythic to fail to recognize what kind of impact a single banning could potentially have on the game is negligent. To ban the guild leader of the largest guild on Legends without batting an eye, without warning, without notice, it is pure incompetence.

I cannot play this game as carefree as I used to, I certainly don't feel eager to log in very often. But I still play because of people like Damia - I log in because I love my guild and I love the community.

Good night, and good luck.

She sounds like a great person, and I'm truly sorry for her ordeal.

Be well - Pax
.

 

[Bobar]

I am in total agreement with Serafi's post. As she will remember from her stay with us on Europa I do Idocs. I have done for 4 years now and during that time I have picked up a stupendous amount of stuff. Perhaps fortunately I have never picked up any of the extremely rare items (2 story statues etc) but I have found a number of fairly rare desirable pieces as well as server births, val hammers, val bods (part filled and small so that it is possible to fill the occasional bod) verite hammers, barbed kits and many many checks for 1mill and lesser amounts, Were any duped? It is probable that amongst the items I have found some were duped.

How am I to know?. Is it my job to know? Isn't it EA's responsibility to know about and remove dupes without normal players having to worry about it?.
I have no idea how to script or dupe. Why is it therefore something for me to worry about?.

Because of EA's steadfast refusal to release any kind of statement regarding how the bannings were carried out players like myself and Serafi are left wondering if we could be included in the next round.

Statements like this do NOT help.

Jeremy said:

A runic? No. Two or three? Naw. Thirty? Probably, yeah.

I'm not going to give a specific number for the dupers to use to game the system, but it's high enough that most casual players won't hit it. The "innocent" guy who emailed me over the weekend had 160 or so duped items. Not so innocent. eh?

__________________
E. Jeremy Dalberg, Mythic Entertainment www.uoherald.com

Anybody see a flaw in this?. Cos I damn well can. The word most should not be there. Either the bans were carried out with EA being 100% sure or they were carried out so that MOST of those banned were guilty.

Many posts have been made since this whole issue started and many have statements like. I'm pretty confident that those who are now screaming 'I'm innocent' are guilty as hell and -again the insidious MOST - are dupers. A great number of the posts contain riders of this sort implying that even they have some doubt in the infallability of the system used.

I know one of those banned and am well aware of the good reputation of another. Until EA give us some sort of information on the methods employed to carry out the bannings I prefer to rely on what I know not on what they refuse to tell me.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

Well,while I do believe that innocent peaple get convicted IRL for things they have not done,I don`t believe it so much in a mmorpg envirenment.Its to ez to cry foul and blame mistakes or whatever.

I logged in on a seldom used acc and spammed Dupe,Duped and Duping for bout a half hour.No ban.I`m sure when I get home from work tonight,that account will still be up and for good measure I`ll spam it some more while I`m fishing.

I find it kind of humorous at how so much has changed with the "EA doesn`t do anything for us! damn cheaters!" now they do and it becomes (in the minds of posters) EA is out for us! Its a conspiracy and no one is safe! Its rediculous how much pancakes and complaining is done on these and other forums.EA can`t win,damned if they do and damned if they don`t.

No I`m not a huge fan of EA,but IMHO I don`t think they ban peaple on a whim w/o sufficient evidence.The whole problem with reporting scripters and it taking so long for them to disappear if at all is proof of how much evidence they need...or want.... to avoid banning the undeserving.I`m sure a slue of peaple will flame on with things like EA`s conspiracy etc,etc. So flame on.

I don`t believe for one second a game company that wants to make money would ban random peaple for trivial things unless they truly had it comming.For those who buy into the whole ... "but I didn`t do ANYTHING! an I got banned booo hooo hooo!" all I can say is ....gulible.

 

[Beldon]

Sorry, but why worry about something you have no intention of doing anything about? It is not worth the time nor trouble. And screaming here on Stratics IS doing nothing. Scream directly at EA/Mythic if you want something done... but then again that is not going to get you anywhere either(if the stories are correct)... is it? So we are right back to stop worrying about something you have no intention of doing anything about anyways. It is starting to get really old.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

People need to stop being so quick at believing everything a poster says here. At least one of the "innocent" people who has been posting for past week is a known liar. I have seen that person lie about so many things in the past that I am willing to bet that they themselves believe these lies. So, ya it might sound very passionate and truthful when they type it out but the reality is different.

And 150 accounts is not really "massive." The proportion of people who were banned because of gross ignorance is probably not even 10%. Lot more people get banned for far sillier reasons in UO, like saying certain words by mistake, than this every month. I would be (and am) more scared about using some word that is the latest slang for some racial joke and getting banned.

 

[Kaleb]

And 150 accounts is not really "massive." The proportion of people who were banned because of gross ignorance is probably not even 10%. Lot more people get banned for far sillier reasons in UO, like saying certain words by mistake, than this every month. I would be (and am) more scared about using some word that is the latest slang for some racial joke and getting banned.

I had a friend get banned for using a common term for the rat spawn champ. In yew he says "#oons Up!!" 5 mins later he was banned.

 

[Surgeries]

I didn`t mention the word mass-bannings. Others have, not me.



Mark me as gullible if you want, but when players I always thought of as honorable gets the ban, I am left to wonder.

I just want to say...no one, in this case, will know for sure, who was really gulty as charged, except EA and the actual person.

And as for gullible...keep in mind just how many Mass Murderers were thought to be nice, quiet people, before it was discovered that they weren't all that. And that was with people that actually spoke with them Face to Face, in real life.

I am not saying any that got banned from UO were or weren't guilty...again...only EA and the people themselves know the truth.

Playing with, or knowing someone in, a video game, counts for little, with regard to being able to determine actual guilt or innocence.

One should also keep in mind that this is a role playing game, at it's heart...

Being able to see into their bank boxes, and every container they own counts for much, much MUCH more than hunting creatures, or PvPing with them.

In addition...no one I know was banned...I wasn't banned...not that that means too much, but for shizzle I don't buy mass Val or Verite Hammers, or Mass Barbed Kits, or Shrouds, or anything that could be, and likely was, duped.

My biggest sin is buying two Heartwood Kits for about 20 million GP. That is a lot of gold to me, but the price seemed good...until I saw the post by the Dev about how friggin hard they are to actually get, and then I saw how many Val Hammers the vendor had, and then I saw all the duping threads. I immediately stopped doing business with that vendor...immediately

But I didn't get banned for that, either.

I have lots of stuff, and lots of gold...but I don't do big trades, and I don't deal in rares, so I feel comfortable about wwhat I own, in this regard, as well.

The people banned may or may not be hiding something about their guilt or innocence...I can't be the judge of that, as I am not privy to the details needed to make that call. But EA is, and was. Could they have made a mistake? Of course they could have. Did they? I have absolutely no real idea, and neither does anyone else.

And I don't type in my password everyday, paranoid that I MAY have been banned in error today. I just can't be that paranoid.

But then again, maybe I am the gullible one, eh?

*Smiiles*

 

[Revenant2]

The bull**** notion that someone got banned for saying the word "dupe" in game is exactly the kind of INSANITY that drives me nuts. You cant truly believe that?

So you are trying to tell me that a whole GUILD sat around talking about duping (therefore it is likely to believe that every one of them used the words DUPE) but of course the only one who got banned was the one who was AGAINST banning. The one who said "For the Love of Garriot! - Dont dupe!" and poof - her account was banned by some language filter.

If you believe this for ONE second - you are truly a piece of dancing Brocoli.

The original posting concerning her banning said something to the effect that she had mentioned the URLs of some illegal sites during her "Please Don't Dupe" speech, for the purpose of asking her guildies *not* to visit them.

Though my shard is Legends, I have no personal knowledge of the banning, don't know the woman who was banned, am not a member of her guild, and was not there at that guild meeting, so I have no comment past what I just told you.

Be well - Pax
.

If this was a real, 'don't dupe' speech being made by a well-intending guildmaster, and even if it included references to icky-nasty sites that are being suggested to be avoided, such a person being perma-banned as a direct result would be such bad PR as being hard to take. Is this really how it happened or am I misunderstanding something? Maybe there was a history of saying crappy URLs into the game and this person was refusing to stop even after repeated warnings?

Overall, I don't understand, I'm just baffled, as to how so much good could have been done recently, so many great improvements and all, only to be followed on the heels by all of this.

I can empathize where they would be furious at the M*ers. These ****heads deliberately sabotaged the UO economy and intended runic item distribution and they did it to be malicious. I don't blame the EA people for declaring war on these M*ers! I personally would have been just as ruthless in parts of this.

HOWEVER

I been saying left and right that you ALWAYS have to view what actions you take through the eyes of the non-****heads. Feel free to get the dirty work done but be sure to cover your ass in their eyes!

EA failed to cover it's own ass in this case. They needed to keep accurate accounting of the items/reasons and supply those to the banned people when asked for them, and if 150 or so accounts means a buttload of work, well I'm sorry but I'm just the messenger here. It has nothing to do with giving the malicious duper ****ers any slack. It's about sending the right message to the good people who remain. Not just any message, the RIGHT one.

The right message lets them know that they are individually valued and will not be handled carelessly in the event that something seems to be not right with stuff they might own!

 

[Pax]

Well,while I do believe that innocent peaple get convicted IRL for things they have not done,I don`t believe it so much in a mmorpg envirenment.Its to ez to cry foul and blame mistakes or whatever.

I logged in on a seldom used acc and spammed Dupe,Duped and Duping for bout a half hour.No ban.I`m sure when I get home from work tonight,that account will still be up and for good measure I`ll spam it some more while I`m fishing.

I find it kind of humorous at how so much has changed with the "EA doesn`t do anything for us! damn cheaters!" now they do and it becomes (in the minds of posters) EA is out for us! Its a conspiracy and no one is safe! Its rediculous how much pancakes and complaining is done on these and other forums.EA can`t win,damned if they do and damned if they don`t.

No I`m not a huge fan of EA,but IMHO I don`t think they ban peaple on a whim w/o sufficient evidence.The whole problem with reporting scripters and it taking so long for them to disappear if at all is proof of how much evidence they need...or want.... to avoid banning the undeserving.I`m sure a slue of peaple will flame on with things like EA`s conspiracy etc,etc. So flame on.

I don`t believe for one second a game company that wants to make money would ban random peaple for trivial things unless they truly had it comming.For those who buy into the whole ... "but I didn`t do ANYTHING! an I got banned booo hooo hooo!" all I can say is ....gulible.

The disturbing part is the people on here who were banned... and that's ALL of them on here that I've read... are complaining about the same thing: EA won't tell *them* what items they had that caused them to be banned.

If EA did tell those who were banned exactly why they were banned, what exactly they had in their possession that proved they deserved being banned, then a representative from EA such as Jeremy could make a public counterstatement to the effect that the company DID give those banned the specifics concerning their banning. It may not sound like much, but it would be a powerful tool in quelling the uproar that's resulted.

The only reason EA wouldn't tell the convicted is to keep them from coming on forums like this and listing the kinds of items that caused them to be banned. I think all of us know that, whether we consciously realize it or not... and THAT is what's so scary. The fact that EA doesn't want even a partial listing of those items to get out means they are not necessarily easily recognized as being dupes, which translates into items we *wouldn't expect* to be dupes! What does that mean? Quit obviously it means that almost ANY of us might very well be in possession of similar items, no matter how innocently we may have come by them.

Say someone was duping Virtue Armor pieces, 10th Statues or Ankhs, for instance to get the 10,000 points from them; or Level 12 Artifacts or Beserker's Sythes to get the 25,000 points; or even 25,000 Spring Cleaning Tickets. Any of those might very well impact us, even if we came by having such items in a completely innocent way. Or perhaps the items were high-end like Chargers or 7-8-9 Year Vet Rewards, or mid-ranged stuff like Heritage Tokens (which I bought a LOT of from player vendors because I love the diversity of things you can get from them), or Spring Decor Tokens, which I bought quite a few of from EA's own store.

Do you understand now? EA/Mythic's complete silence to the accused, convicted and sentenced concerning the specifics of their supposed criminal actions immediately implies the possibility that anyone else could wind up in the same boat for possessing we have *no idea what*! Further, since we have no way of knowing what items caused the bannings, other than Val Hammers, it's caused many of us to destroy perfectly legal, rather valuable items precisely because we have no way of telling what items are legal and which are dupes.

This whole Nazi-esque fiasco has been disturbingly unfair to all of UO's innocent paying customers on so many levels.

Be well - Pax
.

 

[Xrenos]

It was about 150 accounts, all told. Not a terribly large-scale ban in the grand scheme of things.

As I stated in my other post in other thread, personally I know 2 people who cancel their accounts because of latest bans of innocent players (including me of course) and following actions of EA customer support, especially ignorance and unability to describe the ban reason in details. I will cancel my other 2, not-banned for some reason accounts, if there will be no progress on investigation of fairness of my ban.

If you would monitor the feedbacks from "the reasons of account cancellation" in the following month, that "150" number could be multiplied by 5. That will be almost 10 thousand US dollars less for EA per month. Or more, if this unclear situation on legality of items and unability of EA Customer Support to handle this situation will drive away new players.

 

[Pax]

The original posting concerning her banning said something to the effect that she had mentioned the URLs of some illegal sites during her "Please Don't Dupe" speech, for the purpose of asking her guildies *not* to visit them.

Though my shard is Legends, I have no personal knowledge of the banning, don't know the woman who was banned, am not a member of her guild, and was not there at that guild meeting, so I have no comment past what I just told you.

If this was a real, 'don't dupe' speech being made by a well-intending guildmaster, and even if it included references to icky-nasty sites that are being suggested to be avoided, such a person being perma-banned as a direct result would be such bad PR as being hard to take. Is this really how it happened or am I misunderstanding something? Maybe there was a history of saying crappy URLs into the game and this person was refusing to stop even after repeated warnings?

Since it isn't the guild master who was banned but rather her guildies who are on here protesting, I'm inclined to think they're telling the truth... at least until facts are presented that prove otehrwise.

Overall, I don't understand, I'm just baffled, as to how so much good could have been done recently, so many great improvements and all, only to be followed on the heels by all of this.

Exactly! AMEN there!

I can empathize where they would be furious at the M*ers. These ****heads deliberately sabotaged the UO economy and intended runic item distribution and they did it to be malicious. I don't blame the EA people for declaring war on these M*ers! I personally would have been just as ruthless in parts of this.

HOWEVER

I been saying left and right that you ALWAYS have to view what actions you take through the eyes of the non-****heads. Feel free to get the dirty work done but be sure to cover your ass in their eyes!

EA failed to cover it's own ass in this case. They needed to keep accurate accounting of the items/reasons and supply those to the banned people when asked for them, and if 150 or so accounts means a buttload of work, well I'm sorry but I'm just the messenger here. It has nothing to do with giving the malicious duper ****ers any slack. It's about sending the right message to the good people who remain. Not just any message, the RIGHT one.

The right message lets them know that they are individually valued and will not be handled carelessly in the event that something seems to be not right with stuff they might own!

I completely agree! EA/Mythic has handled this entire thing abominably.

Be well - Pax
.

 

[RoycroftLS]

The only reason EA wouldn't tell the convicted is to keep them from coming on forums like this and listing the kinds of items that caused them to be banned.

As I have stated before, there is nothing to be gained from releasing more information. People who believe that EA is a misguided group of jerks will doubt the authenticity of the data released. People who disbelieve the accused will say that the accused modified the e-mail to make it look less suspicious.

It's still a matter of which side you choose to believe. EA knows they can't publicly discuss any specific cases, so why would they release more detailed data that could be manipulated to cause widespread panic and paranoia? All it would take would be one devious person copy/pasting such a letter and simply changing the numbers to everyday amounts.

I think all of us know that, whether we consciously realize it or not... and THAT is what's so scary. The fact that EA doesn't want even a partial listing of those items to get out means they are not necessarily easily recognized as being dupes, which translates into items we *wouldn't expect* to be dupes!

This is old news. The devs have already stated that some dupes in the past were limited to specific items, while other dupes could basically be used on any item in the game.

That said, the devs are primarily concerned with stopping duping that has game-changing implications (like runic hammers). I don't think they are going to lose any sleep if you possess 500 duped squirrel statues.

This whole Nazi-esque fiasco has been disturbingly unfair to all of UO's innocent paying customers on so many levels.

Godwin's law strikes again.

 

[Pax]

.


Using text-out-of-context is such a useful tool, huh? Observe:

The only reason EA wouldn't tell the convicted is to keep them from coming on forums like this and listing the kinds of items that caused them to be banned.

As I have stated before, there is nothing to be gained from releasing more information. People who believe that EA is a misguided group of jerks will doubt the authenticity of the data released. People who disbelieve the accused will say that the accused modified the e-mail to make it look less suspicious.

It's still a matter of which side you choose to believe. EA knows they can't publicly discuss any specific cases, so why would they release more detailed data that could be manipulated to cause widespread panic and paranoia? All it would take would be one devious person copy/pasting such a letter and simply changing the numbers to everyday amounts.

I think all of us know that, whether we consciously realize it or not... and THAT is what's so scary. The fact that EA doesn't want even a partial listing of those items to get out means they are not necessarily easily recognized as being dupes, which translates into items we *wouldn't expect* to be dupes!

This is old news. The devs have already stated that some dupes in the past were limited to specific items, while other dupes could basically be used on any item in the game.

That said, the devs are primarily concerned with stopping duping that has game-changing implications (like runic hammers). I don't think they are going to lose any sleep if you possess 500 duped squirrel statues.

This whole Nazi-esque fiasco has been disturbingly unfair to all of UO's innocent paying customers on so many levels.

Godwin's law strikes again.

Neat to find a new label. How long did you have to hunt before you found somewhere you could show off your superior intellect?

Of course all EA/Mythic's Nazi-like actions, or rather inactions combined with actions, have nothing to do with the comparison.

How's the sand? Hope it doesn't muss your coif over-much.

Be well - Pax
.