Re: Cal_Mythic & Llewen on Classic Shard Halo

[allerk]

Oh well, haven't posted here on stratics for a while.

Seriously now, don't you guys know about the existence of free shards? I agree that there's some people out there who really are being driven purely out of nostalgia but it's pure absurd to say that the majority of us "are idealizing the past" or anything like that.

I know that I can't post free shard names here, so I'll just post numbers:
Most popular: RE ruleset, 815 players online average.
Second most: T2A ruleset, 422 players online average.
Third: RE ruleset, 301 players online average.

Now, the most popular Post-Aos shard has 97 online players average.

Are you people blind? Those people play classic because they want to, not because it's free. If that wasn't the case there would be at least some popular post-aos servers. The only ones who wouldn't play on a classic OSI server are the ones who purely hate EA for what they've done and will continue to boycott EA/OSI forever. An OFFICIAL classic shard has many advantages over player-run shards, and I bet it would attract many people. It's amazing how EA's stubbornness was the cause of the high popularity of free shards - by finally making a classic server, it would not simply attract old vets, but also regain the confidence of many ex-subscribers.

There are many others things I'd like to discuss, but I just refuse to. Like the members who said "UO was item-based because the silver vanq sup acc katana was as expensive as a high-end artifact today" or something. Has anyone ever told you that this thing called "insurance" didn't exist back then? People didn't go around with top-weapons - they were mostly used for duels (except for people who had 6+ top weapons). Of course they granted an advantage, but by using them you were doomed to lose it eventually (which didn't take long, usually).

Oh, also someone said "if Fel was that good, why everyone moved to Tram when it was created? people always skip that question!!". No, they don't. It's been answered and I'll answer it again. Back then you'd make 5x more gold in Trammel than in Felucca (nobody could kill/loot you) - which of course made a ton of players to move there. Even crafting lost some of its "appeal" because PvM'ing in Trammel was so much more profitable. Just imagine if EA now released dungeon instances with monsters who are easy to kill and drop all sorts of artifacts and runics, very often. EVERYBODY would spend all their time there, leaving the non-instanced world empty and killing the artifact/runic market. And you'd come and say "yeah, that was a smart decision, or else people wouldn't go to those dungeons!"?

Use your heads, people.

(Note to forum admins: if any part of the free-shard stuff I posted was unallowed, please tell me which was it so I can re-write my post according to the norms.)

 

[Llewen]

I know that I can't post free shard names here, so I'll just post numbers:
Most popular: RE ruleset, 815 players online average.
Second most: T2A ruleset, 422 players online average.
Third: RE ruleset, 301 players online average.

Now, the most popular Post-Aos shard has 97 online players average.

Are you people blind? Those people play classic because they want to, not because it's free.

One of the reasons why I changed my mind about a classic shard.

 

[Coldren]

Are you people blind? Those people play classic because they want to, not because it's free. If that wasn't the case there would be at least some popular post-aos servers. The only ones who wouldn't play on a classic OSI server are the ones who purely hate EA for what they've done and will continue to boycott EA/OSI forever. An OFFICIAL classic shard has many advantages over player-run shards, and I bet it would attract many people. It's amazing how EA's stubbornness was the cause of the high popularity of free shards - by finally making a classic server, it would not simply attract old vets, but also regain the confidence of many ex-subscribers.

There are many others things I'd like to discuss, but I just refuse to. Like the members who said "UO was item-based because the silver vanq sup acc katana was as expensive as a high-end artifact today" or something. Has anyone ever told you that this thing called "insurance" didn't exist back then? People didn't go around with top-weapons - they were mostly used for duels (except for people who had 6+ top weapons). Of course they granted an advantage, but by using them you were doomed to lose it eventually (which didn't take long, usually).

Couldn't agree more.

Sadly, it will likely continue to fall on deaf ears.

Honestly, I don't think the Devs were even serious when they stated they were considering it. It was an effective marketing ploy, though. Got a lot of people on the boards (even here on Stratics) talking about UO again.

 

[Derium of ls]

Oh well, haven't posted here on stratics for a while.

Seriously now, don't you guys know about the existence of free shards? I agree that there's some people out there who really are being driven purely out of nostalgia but it's pure absurd to say that the majority of us "are idealizing the past" or anything like that.

I know that I can't post free shard names here, so I'll just post numbers:
Most popular: RE ruleset, 815 players online average.
Second most: T2A ruleset, 422 players online average.
Third: RE ruleset, 301 players online average.

Now, the most popular Post-Aos shard has 97 online players average.

Are you people blind? Those people play classic because they want to, not because it's free. If that wasn't the case there would be at least some popular post-aos servers. The only ones who wouldn't play on a classic OSI server are the ones who purely hate EA for what they've done and will continue to boycott EA/OSI forever. An OFFICIAL classic shard has many advantages over player-run shards, and I bet it would attract many people. It's amazing how EA's stubbornness was the cause of the high popularity of free shards - by finally making a classic server, it would not simply attract old vets, but also regain the confidence of many ex-subscribers.

There are many others things I'd like to discuss, but I just refuse to. Like the members who said "UO was item-based because the silver vanq sup acc katana was as expensive as a high-end artifact today" or something. Has anyone ever told you that this thing called "insurance" didn't exist back then? People didn't go around with top-weapons - they were mostly used for duels (except for people who had 6+ top weapons). Of course they granted an advantage, but by using them you were doomed to lose it eventually (which didn't take long, usually).

Oh, also someone said "if Fel was that good, why everyone moved to Tram when it was created? people always skip that question!!". No, they don't. It's been answered and I'll answer it again. Back then you'd make 5x more gold in Trammel than in Felucca (nobody could kill/loot you) - which of course made a ton of players to move there. Even crafting lost some of its "appeal" because PvM'ing in Trammel was so much more profitable. Just imagine if EA now released dungeon instances with monsters who are easy to kill and drop all sorts of artifacts and runics, very often. EVERYBODY would spend all their time there, leaving the non-instanced world empty and killing the artifact/runic market. And you'd come and say "yeah, that was a smart decision, or else people wouldn't go to those dungeons!"?

Use your heads, people.

(Note to forum admins: if any part of the free-shard stuff I posted was unallowed, please tell me which was it so I can re-write my post according to the norms.)

amazing first post, glad you decided to stop over!

 

[Clog|Mordain]

I am neither for or against a "classic" server. Although there is one thing that need to be thought of.

(i dont know if this has previously been mentioned, I havent been following the classic server threads)

Since EA/Mythic are trying to phase out the legacy client, how would this effect a classic server? Would it run with the Enhanced Client or would they be forced to keep a 12 year old client just for one server? Or would the people who want to play this classic server play it on Enhanced Client(Doubtful)? Or would it be ideal for them to release a previous version of the legacy client that will only allow access to the classic server? And this client rarely gets updated etc...

If this has been answered, link the post to save you re-writing the answer.

 

[Derium of ls]

I'd be sooooooo mad if they got rid of 2D client. I would not be logging on at all, they are so hooooorible!!

/Rant

 

[Llewen]

Since EA/Mythic are trying to phase out the legacy client, how would this effect a classic server?

I'd be sooooooo mad if they got rid of 2D client. I would not be logging on at all, they are so hooooorible!!

The devs have stated pretty categorically that they won't be getting rid of the 2D client as long as there is a significant proportion of the player base using it. So I'm thinking it won't be phased out any time soon. They would like to get rid of it, because for them the enhanced client is easier to work with, but they have no plans to do so at this time.

 

[HD2300]

Any new shards should be Enhanced Client only. It is the only sure way to make it hard for scripters, resource and pvp, and gold sellers.

I also think that TOS should be changed so you cant sell gold and items for cash. If resource, gold and item sellers can make money, EA can make even more selling it themselves.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I think most Classic UO players that were returning wouldn't do so if they had to use the "Enhanced" Client.

I know I wouldn't.

 

[kelmo]

I would not be playing UO now if it were not for the efforts at creating a better client. *smiles*

 

[Nexus]

Thing is you don't need a "Classic Shard" to bring back any of the interaction people want nor do you need one to bring back a sense of community. First and foremost what has to happen is get rid of scripts, they have been the most devastating "influence" to UO. More so than the Rule set split with Trammel/Felucca more so than the myriad of item properties brought on by AoS, and more so than the addition of new facets and areas to explore.

Before someone goes off on this let me explain. I'm all for a Classic Shard, I have no issue with the concept. What I do have issues with is Mythic wasting time and effort on a doomed project instead of taking the steps first to provide a haven for it to succeed. Without an end to scripting any Classic Shard will be at best another Siege, a small player base hardly enough to justify the upkeep an maintenance of the server coupled with it's portion of the Dev teams salaries and other overhead.

The reason I say Scripting has harmed more than any single influence is simple, it attacks and erodes the player base not only by driving players who do not wish to continually have to "compete" with scripts out of the game, and by changing the need for interactions between players at their basest level. I'm not saying changes in the game haven't harmed this as well, but...... who remembers what was often given as the best way to make some starting gold say, 8-10 years ago?

**Raises Hand**

Many of us were told go mining, you'll get your strength up and you can sell ingots to smiths to get some funds, or told to go kill animals for hides to sell to tailors you'll work skills and make some gold.

This simply doesn't work anymore. There is such an influx of raw materials thanks to scripting, the limited amount of resources a new player could gather simply would not begin to fund his basic equipment needs at the current economies prices. Out the door reasoning for the very first player to player interaction is now voided thanks to scripting.

Scripts allow for character development to occur rapidly. One of the foundations of a strong social society is as was stated interaction. When was the last time you saw a group at the Bone wall? Scripts provide an avenue to obtain the same skill benefits without the social interaction. It's absurd, one of the biggest breakdowns of social interaction is elimination of need in character development. Scripts do nothing except facilitate this.

Another thing to consider......

Game Economies do not work like real life economies. Gold is infinite in UO, there is no magic well all the monsters pull gold from that will one day go dry, causing gold to continually spiral downwards in buying power and value. When scripters have run the majority of honest players out of the market for resources they can simple raise up prices, slowly, a bit here and there, and that infinite font will allow players to obtain them. It's why when 10 years ago a single iron ingot was around 3-5 gold. Now on my shard it averages 14-20 gold, not because there is a short supply, Iron is easier to get than ever, but because a minority of people are holding the market though scripts in most cases and they can dictate the prices to squeeze everyone else out simply because there is no cost in either gold or time involved for them making everything 100% profit. Reflect back on the ideals of a Classic Shard all you want, if they don't curb this then it's economy will inflate rapidly do to gold value depreciation.

Like I said I'm not opposed to a Classic Shard, I just don't want one if they aren't going to do it right and make sure it is as unspoiled as possible.

 

[HD2300]

I really really dislike the Enhanced Client. But if that is the only way to minimise resource and gold scripting on a new shard then so be it. Trammel didnt ruin the game, it was brokers who resold scripted gold, resources, and dupes, and 3rd party cheat programs in PvP.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Trammel didnt ruin the game

Disagree.

it was brokers who resold scripted gold, resources, and dupes, and 3rd party cheat programs in PvP.

Agree.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Like I said I'm not opposed to a Classic Shard, I just don't want one if they aren't going to do it right and make sure it is as unspoiled as possible.

Agree.

 

[Tek]

I wonder if there is anyone left who works on UO that was even around PreAOS?

 

[Derium of ls]

it was brokers who resold scripted gold, resources, and dupes, and 3rd party cheat programs in PvP.

Do you mean Brokers who knew they were buying "tainted" goods? Or just brokers selling in general.

 

[Derium of ls]

I wonder if there is anyone left who works on UO that was even around PreAOS?

I wonder the same.

 

[Nexus]

I wonder if there is anyone left who works on UO that was even around PreAOS?

There is a few.... I know Mesanna right off the top of my head.. Believe she has been around for most of the games life.

 

[Violence]

Nexus, regarding certain skills you are right. A long time ago I remember enjoying mining with a friend, chatting while we dragged and dropped our ore back to the forge and so on.. Good case of social interaction and shows how scripts for mining ruined this.

But about being able to train your fighting skills fast on say, a golem.. I must disagree. It takes nothing off social interaction. It only means that when one will head out for adventure they will stumble on other "finished" characters. If any interaction was to be had with characters under training in the first place, it will happen either way. Only instead of orcs and trolls you'll be fighting champions or Navrey, see what I mean..?

Plus whenever I have trained a skill on a golem I've had some nice conversations and acquaintances.

Now, this Classic Shard arguement leaves me uninterested.. Completely. What I would like about it would be solely the absence of Trammel, if that's what EA/M decided anyway. There is no mention of a Classic Shard not having the same neon dyes and all.
Otherwise to me it will be a toned-down version of what we have already. My thoughts on this are completely neutral, just remove cheats first or a CS will be absolutely pointless.

"Because if a "Classic" shard is created the Devs aren't going to be able to simply set it up and let it run. There are going to be bugs that will need to be fixed, exploits that will need to be fixed, imbalances that will need to be addressed, and development decisions that will have to be made."
- This along with the fact that such a shard will, as the OP argues, further spread an already thin EA/M, is a serious reason for those supporting a Classic Shard's development to re-consider.. At least for the time being.
Plus..! Do you have ANY idea how hard it would be to re-balance all those skills that are made worth-while exactly due to items, so that they work fine?.. It's 20XX and just now EA/M decided to take a look at BARDS!! Doesn't that tell you something about what I'm saying..?

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

There is a few.... I know Mesanna right off the top of my head.. Believe she has been around for most of the games life.

Isnt Phoenix a retuning dev? So would he count?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

What I would like about it would be solely the absence of Trammel, if that's what EA/M decided anyway. There is no mention of a Classic Shard not having the same neon dyes and all. [/FONT]
Otherwise to me it will be a toned-down version of what we have already. My thoughts on this are completely neutral, just remove cheats first or a CS will be absolutely pointless.

I have been rather vocal that all neon ... everything ... needs to go.

Also, you are right, cheating needs to be dealt with before a Classic Shard goes live...100% agree on that.

But, what most of us are asking for when it comes to a Classic Shard is not simply a 'toned-down version of what we have now'...we are asking for no AoS...period...and that includes all the skills that came with it (Chiv, Necro, and everything after that as well).

 

[Derium of ls]

I wonder how many people complained when Lake Austin was opened... oh wait, no one.

True there were more players then, but if the game is dying off in its current state, logic to me would say try something different. If a classic server does kill of production servers who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? Same argument I heard from people with tram "the majority wanted it, so let it be". Why does that change now?

 

[Guido_LS]

I wonder how many people complained when Lake Austin was opened... oh wait, no one.

True there were more players then, but if the game is dying off in its current state, logic to me would say try something different. If a classic server does kill of production servers who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? Same argument I heard from people with tram "the majority wanted it, so let it be". Why does that change now?

If it were to kill off my production server, I'd care. And if you think so little of LS dying, then maybe you shouldn't have of ls in your name, as you obviously have no regard for the history of that server.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

If it were to kill off my production server, I'd care. And if you think so little of LS dying, then maybe you shouldn't have of ls in your name, as you obviously have no regard for the history of that server.

Considering that history was forged 3 years before Trammel existed, I would say it is the Trammel fans that have no regard for history.

 

[Guido_LS]

Considering that history was forged 3 years before Trammel existed, I would say it is the Trammel fans that have no regard for history.

Where did you get Trammel fan from that? And I guess you have no clue who Dennar was. Just one of the largest parts of LS player history there is... and post Tram. But I guess you refuse to acknowledge that could be possible.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Where did you get Trammel fan from that?

Why are you, and some others, so intent on completely messing with other people? Are some people here so dense as to not realize that when you **** people off enough, they leave? AoS wasn't the final nail in the UO coffin - taking away what makes a substantial group of people happy now, today, will.

You guys have got to get it through your heads... not everyone wants to go to Felucca. There's nothing going for it, other than double resources. It's either completely empty, or, in cases like today's /ahem event, a bottleneck for the PK's to masturbate all over each other in ecstasy at the easy kills, and then come and trash talk the carebear Trammies here on Stratics.

You all seem hell bent to somehow punish the players that prefer the Trammel lifestyle, as if they somehow pee'd in your Wheaties, when in, all reality, it was the dev's that crapped all over your play style. This goes right on down the line to good ole Garriott, who didn't have the cajones to stand and fight in what he supposedly truly believed in.

You want your classic shard - I truly hope that it arrives. But quit trying to throw your mores on to everyone else. Get it through your head that people DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH NON-CON PvP. It's bad enough that we have one Dev that openly condones grief play. I hope for the sake of the UO player base, at least a couple of people still employed there have some sense, or there won't be any servers, carebear, classic or otherwise.

http://vboards.stratics.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1722368&quoteall=1

 

[Lord Chaos]

This is incorrect on many levels. There have been emulators for EQ just as long as there has been for UO - in many ways, it's just as easy.

So I could reverse your question and ask you how you would have knowledge of such a thing.

I won't bother commenting on the cheating aspect - you're fine with cheating, and we all know it. How you would have knowledge of such things is what's astounding here.

I am not fine with cheating, I am indifferent towards other people cheating, especially since it has been something I've been studying a lot and as such because of that open attitude have gained a large amount of knowledge on the subject. Much of the knowledge is readily available through the well known sites and google.

Second Life is an entirely different business model than UO, or any other pay for play MMO. That comparison is poor, at best, and ignorant, at worst.

UO and Blizzard also have different business models. UO Allows selling for RL money, UO sells items for RL money...Blizzard does not.

I don't see where I argued with your point at all, other than to say that, with Blizzard, it's nothing new. So congratulations... you've just managed to troll yourself. That's got to be a new high point....

The point was that it is something new, the other games weren't P2P MMOs, so can't be compared. Blizzard adopted the stance to make more money in the end and as a publicity stunt. It has no comparison to MMOs.

 

[Guido_LS]

This is incorrect on many levels. There have been emulators for EQ just as long as there has been for UO - in many ways, it's just as easy.

So I could reverse your question and ask you how you would have knowledge of such a thing.

Fair enough - the answer is two-fold. A group of friends and I were working on 2 different EQ related projects - the first was a way to run the client under Linux when they switched over to the DX based system, before there were interpreters like Cedega, Crossover, etc. The second project was an attempt to write a competing service to Magelo - and rather than risk figuring out how the client sent information directly to SOE, emulators were used to parse out the data packets. Nothing sinister, nor illegal. Ultimately, WineX came out (the pre-cursor to Cedega) and we didn't have the financial backing to compete with Magelo. So both projects got canned.

I won't bother commenting on the cheating aspect - you're fine with cheating, and we all know it. How you would have knowledge of such things is what's astounding here.

I am not fine with cheating, I am indifferent towards other people cheating, especially since it has been something I've been studying a lot and as such because of that open attitude have gained a large amount of knowledge on the subject. Much of the knowledge is readily available through the well known sites and google.

Knowledge of a subject is fine - condoning something that is obviously wrong isn't. That's where the point of contention lies.

Second Life is an entirely different business model than UO, or any other pay for play MMO. That comparison is poor, at best, and ignorant, at worst.

UO and Blizzard also have different business models. UO Allows selling for RL money, UO sells items for RL money...Blizzard does not.

I don't see where I argued with your point at all, other than to say that, with Blizzard, it's nothing new. So congratulations... you've just managed to troll yourself. That's got to be a new high point....

The point was that it is something new, the other games weren't P2P MMOs, so can't be compared. Blizzard adopted the stance to make more money in the end and as a publicity stunt. It has no comparison to MMOs.

Blizzard's mishandling of battle.net is why many companies, including Activision, have gone over to Steam and other competitors for their P2P servers. And that mishandling is nothing new, having existed since Diablo came out. Their motivations are not really all that important - the results are.

 

[HD2300]

UO and Blizzard also have different business models. UO Allows selling for RL money, UO sells items for RL money...Blizzard does not.

The point was that it is something new, the other games weren't P2P MMOs, so can't be compared. Blizzard adopted the stance to make more money in the end and as a publicity stunt. It has no comparison to MMOs.

With 11.5 million subscribers WoW the supercarebear MMO, is a massive success.

Yet Mythic seems determined to change UO into super PvP faction land like WAR and DAOC. Fantasy PvP MMOs just dont keep their subscribers. WAR 700,000 down to 70,000 and 50 servers down to 4 servers. AoC same. Darkfall same. Seige same.

Based on this a Trammel only ruleset shard is the way to go, not another PvP shard.

 

[Derium of ls]

If it were to kill off my production server, I'd care. And if you think so little of LS dying, then maybe you shouldn't have of ls in your name, as you obviously have no regard for the history of that server.

I'm part of the LS Mage Tower and we are still in the works of getting it back up and running again... because it's a MAJOR part of the history on LS. So trust me I do care.

I had to deal with the "majority rules" with tram, and soooo much more. you say you would care of production shards died right? Well I'd care if a classic shard didn't happen. Why is it all of a sudden people are no longer tossing out the majority rules thing with a classic server? It's all of a sudden "noooo! not my shard!". Well well, guess you have a 2% understanding of how we felt with tram, AoS ect ect. But we were 'wrong' cause we were the minority.

 

[Coragin]

Why cant the people who want a classic shard so badly just go play a free shard? There are tons of them out there, and many doing a BETTER job than the dev team we currently have on live servers. Makes no sense.

Many have stated that they would pay extra, well pay these people who host free shards then. Or devs, give them their classic server, charge for classic only access, same as what we pay for now, but for their 13 a month they ONLY have access to the classic shard. And all monies from that classic shard be used to pay a DIFFERENT dev team to upkeep it. Then us real players dont have to worry about the devs spending their time on something a handful of people want.

Of coarse, the dev team for the classic shard will be a student (yes one guy), because the income of this shard will not gain enough to pay a single real programmers monthly salary and benefits.

There, issue solved.

 

[Guido_LS]

I'm part of the LS Mage Tower and we are still in the works of getting it back up and running again... because it's a MAJOR part of the history on LS. So trust me I do care.

I had to deal with the "majority rules" with tram, and soooo much more. you say you would care of production shards died right? Well I'd care if a classic shard didn't happen. Why is it all of a sudden people are no longer tossing out the majority rules thing with a classic server? It's all of a sudden "noooo! not my shard!". Well well, guess you have a 2% understanding of how we felt with tram, AoS ect ect. But we were 'wrong' cause we were the minority.

Just like Morgana, you fail to recognize, or remember, your allies. Fine by me. And btw, the classic shard screamers still aren't a majority. Over a 2 month period, 500 people couldn't be bothered to vote for it.

And maybe it hasn't been since day 1, but I have been on LS since before the split myself. I have fond memories of both before and after that time period. But no, I wouldn't want to see LS shut down in favor of a classic shard. It's simply not worth it. The day LS closes down is the day UO gets deleted off the drive permanently.

 

[Derium of ls]

Just like Morgana, you fail to recognize, or remember, your allies. Fine by me. And btw, the classic shard screamers still aren't a majority. Over a 2 month period, 500 people couldn't be bothered to vote for it.

And maybe it hasn't been since day 1, but I have been on LS since before the split myself. I have fond memories of both before and after that time period. But no, I wouldn't want to see LS shut down in favor of a classic shard. It's simply not worth it. The day LS closes down is the day UO gets deleted off the drive permanently.

How did I fail to recognize my allies? Weren't you the one that said I should remove "of LS" from my name because I don't care about the history?

Are you claiming we are no longer allies because I have been the minority and I'm now wondering why when people fear they might become the minority, then the 'majority rules' argument is not brought up, in this case at least?

You claimed I care not for my shard, I told you I did. And all I'm doing is taking the SAME stance people for tram, AoS, powerscrolls, destruction of rare objects have taken... "the majority of us like it, so deal with it". Now all of a sudden I'M wrong for that, but it was cool when everyone else did it. heh

 

[Guido_LS]

How did I fail to recognize my allies? Weren't you the one that said I should remove "of LS" from my name because I don't care about the history?

Are you claiming we are no longer allies because I have been the minority and I'm now wondering why when people fear they might become the minority, then the 'majority rules' argument is not brought up, in this case at least?

You claimed I care not for my shard, I told you I did. And all I'm doing is taking the SAME stance people for tram, AoS, powerscrolls, destruction of rare objects have taken... "the majority of us like it, so deal with it". Now all of a sudden I'M wrong for that, but it was cool when everyone else did it. heh

No - but just as with other people, I get really tired of the generalizations that certain people bandy about here -

Well well, guess you have a 2% understanding of how we felt with tram, AoS ect ect. But we were 'wrong' cause we were the minority.

statements like that.... I *quit* because of AoS. I didn't come here to Stratics, and whine and complain. I spoke with my wallet, because I didn't feel it was in my best interest to reward that particular dev team any longer. And while I like some of the changes that SA has brought in, this seeming drive towards a more PvP oriented society is coming very close to me voting my wallet again.

I can't, and won't, speak for anyone else, but it's like this. I'm not opposed to a classic shard. I am opposed to it being rammed down my throat at every opportunity some people can muster. And it's never anything new. For some, it's an opportunity to attack the way someone else wants to play. For others, it's an opportunity to attack EA/OSI - which is stupid, since OSI has been gone for a while now. Some take it as an opportunity to attack the Dev's, who, for a change, are semi-listening to people. And, not surprisingly, it's not difficult to figure out who's name will appear with any particular comment.

This is what happens when people run out of constructive conversation, and why the Classic Shard thread has now fallen to page 2, and is in serious danger of falling to page 3. The main, first thread, has fallen to page 10 - you'd think that if something were that important, you'd have tried to at least get it stickied, even if it is locked.

All that work.. all that (mostly) useful conversation... and the best that the most vocal supporters can come up with is the attack dog mentality, disabusing and insulting anyone that even slightly disagrees with them.

And you'll have to excuse my skepticism when you say, on the one hand, that you care about the history of any server, let alone LS, and, on the other hand, you say you'd be just fine and dandy if EA shut it down in favor of something else.

And I'm already a minority - I support a classic shard, and would play there, and I don't, and won't, PvP.

 

[Derium of ls]

No - but just as with other people, I get really tired of the generalizations that certain people bandy about here -



statements like that.... I *quit* because of AoS. I didn't come here to Stratics, and whine and complain. I spoke with my wallet, because I didn't feel it was in my best interest to reward that particular dev team any longer. And while I like some of the changes that SA has brought in, this seeming drive towards a more PvP oriented society is coming very close to me voting my wallet again.

I can't, and won't, speak for anyone else, but it's like this. I'm not opposed to a classic shard. I am opposed to it being rammed down my throat at every opportunity some people can muster. And it's never anything new. For some, it's an opportunity to attack the way someone else wants to play. For others, it's an opportunity to attack EA/OSI - which is stupid, since OSI has been gone for a while now. Some take it as an opportunity to attack the Dev's, who, for a change, are semi-listening to people. And, not surprisingly, it's not difficult to figure out who's name will appear with any particular comment.

This is what happens when people run out of constructive conversation, and why the Classic Shard thread has now fallen to page 2, and is in serious danger of falling to page 3. The main, first thread, has fallen to page 10 - you'd think that if something were that important, you'd have tried to at least get it stickied, even if it is locked.

All that work.. all that (mostly) useful conversation... and the best that the most vocal supporters can come up with is the attack dog mentality, disabusing and insulting anyone that even slightly disagrees with them.

And you'll have to excuse my skepticism when you say, on the one hand, that you care about the history of any server, let alone LS, and, on the other hand, you say you'd be just fine and dandy if EA shut it down in favor of something else.

And I'm already a minority - I support a classic shard, and would play there, and I don't, and won't, PvP.

I honestly don't think you answered me. and all I understood was you don't like the fact I made a general statement?

also reread this:

"If a classic server does kill off production servers who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? Same argument I heard from people with tram "the majority wanted it, so let it be". Why does that change now?"


the above one is pretty much sarcastic, but the point is. I had that paragraph thrown in my face for 10 years now when i bring up Tram or anything else that I feel made this game worse. So how come the one and only time I've turned the tables in a statement (that won't even happen! ha) you feel I should strip my name of LS and that I don't care.


so again, How come when you say:
"If a Tram does kill off Fel who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? the majority wanted it, so let it be."

that's a valid point, majority DOES rule all of a sudden. yet

"If a classic server does kill off production servers who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? Same argument I heard from people with tram "the majority wanted it, so let it be". Why does that change now?"

is "wrong and naughty!" of me to say... it's the same damn thing! But people like you and other pro trammies all of a sudden take it personal, as if it's my fault a classic server has a slim chance to being more popular than a production shard.

my guess is because most of you secretly fear it being true. That's why there is such a huge reaction from you about it. You told me to "deal with it" when Tram made fel rot, yet if I was to make the same statement like I did, It's all of a sudden the wrong thing to say to someone.


by the way, you're guessing how strong the classic server want is based on our thread almost moving to page three? The thread wanting checks bigger than 1mil is probably on page 25 by now, but I bet you an overwhelming amount of players still want that.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

Unfortunately a human being will always have a double standard when it comes to something they like or feel protective of, that's just how humans are. No sense trying to understand it, or bring logic into play.

I hope that we get a classic shard. I hope it is lively and populated and ushers in another golden age. I wouldn't want to see the production shards die simply because having experienced both AoS and Sony's NGE, I wouldn't want their neon colored item based arti-tastic game taken away from under them. We classic shard vets experienced the pain and anguish of having everything we loved stripped from us so they won't have to experience that. Hmmm.... Classic vets embody the Virtue of Sacrifice it seems.

 

[gunneroforgin]

Congratulations...

For making the exact same post in in two different threads, you are hereby awarded...

The Monty Python "Cut & Paste" Award!

[YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cFrtpT1mKy8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cFrtpT1mKy8&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

Enjoy!

thank you thank you *bows at the waste* I thought it appropriate to post this in 2 places.

 

[Guido_LS]

I honestly don't think you answered me. and all I understood was you don't like the fact I made a general statement?

also reread this:

"If a classic server does kill off production servers who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? Same argument I heard from people with tram "the majority wanted it, so let it be". Why does that change now?"


the above one is pretty much sarcastic, but the point is. I had that paragraph thrown in my face for 10 years now when i bring up Tram or anything else that I feel made this game worse. So how come the one and only time I've turned the tables in a statement (that won't even happen! ha) you feel I should strip my name of LS and that I don't care.


so again, How come when you say:
"If a Tram does kill off Fel who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? the majority wanted it, so let it be."

that's a valid point, majority DOES rule all of a sudden. yet

"If a classic server does kill off production servers who cares? It would mean the majority has spoken right? Same argument I heard from people with tram "the majority wanted it, so let it be". Why does that change now?"

is "wrong and naughty!" of me to say... it's the same damn thing! But people like you and other pro trammies all of a sudden take it personal, as if it's my fault a classic server has a slim chance to being more popular than a production shard.

my guess is because most of you secretly fear it being true. That's why there is such a huge reaction from you about it. You told me to "deal with it" when Tram made fel rot, yet if I was to make the same statement like I did, It's all of a sudden the wrong thing to say to someone.


by the way, you're guessing how strong the classic server want is based on our thread almost moving to page three? The thread wanting checks bigger than 1mil is probably on page 25 by now, but I bet you an overwhelming amount of players still want that.

You're not making general statements - you're making blanket statements that DON'T encompass everyone on Stratics, nor everyone that plays UO.

I also think you and others take yourselves a little too seriously about some things. Fear? Over a video game? Please. I've walked away before, and I'd have no issues doing it again.

As for the several times *you* have used the word *YOU* to talk about some wrong that has been imparted, and it's in response to a conversation, you are making it personal, and not general. And *I* have done NOTHING to you. I didn't beg, cry, whine or squeal for Trammel. I sure as hell didn't ask for AoS.

the above one is pretty much sarcastic, but the point is. I had that paragraph thrown in my face for 10 years now when i bring up Tram or anything else that I feel made this game worse. So how come the one and only time I've turned the tables in a statement (that won't even happen! ha) you feel I should strip my name of LS and that I don't care.

Sarcasm doesn't display very well in a textual format, and given that fact, what should a person think when confronted with a post of that nature? We've both been at this long enough to know the difference, and to know better.

It's real simple. Voting on Stratics doesn't mean jack nor squat. Posting, screaming, pontificating, demanding - none of them mean a thing. The only thing that matters to EA, bottom line, is the only control we really have - what we allow to exit our wallets in their direction. I've made my peace with the fact that if things continue going down a certain road that *I* see it going in, I will once again walk away.

 

[Guido_LS]

thank you thank you *bows at the waste* I thought it appropriate to post this in 2 places.

Waste being the operative word?

 

[Derium of ls]

You're not making general statements - you're making blanket statements that DON'T encompass everyone on Stratics, nor everyone that plays UO.

I also think you and others take yourselves a little too seriously about some things. Fear? Over a video game? Please. I've walked away before, and I'd have no issues doing it again.

As for the several times *you* have used the word *YOU* to talk about some wrong that has been imparted, and it's in response to a conversation, you are making it personal, and not general. And *I* have done NOTHING to you. I didn't beg, cry, whine or squeal for Trammel. I sure as hell didn't ask for AoS.



Sarcasm doesn't display very well in a textual format, and given that fact, what should a person think when confronted with a post of that nature? We've both been at this long enough to know the difference, and to know better.

It's real simple. Voting on Stratics doesn't mean jack nor squat. Posting, screaming, pontificating, demanding - none of them mean a thing. The only thing that matters to EA, bottom line, is the only control we really have - what we allow to exit our wallets in their direction. I've made my peace with the fact that if things continue going down a certain road that *I* see it going in, I will once again walk away.

are you talking about things like:

"It's all of a sudden "noooo! not my shard!". Well well, guess you have a 2% understanding of how we felt with tram, AoS ect ect. But we were 'wrong' cause we were the minority."

and:

"my guess is because most of you secretly fear it being true. That's why there is such a huge reaction from you about it. You told me to "deal with it" when Tram made fel rot, yet if I was to make the same statement like I did, It's all of a sudden the wrong thing to say to someone. "

look at the context of it, the first 'You' was followed up to all the people who said that to me about tram. in the second on I started it off with "most of you". I don't mean most of your body, I mean most of those people. So the rest of the "yous" in there is refering to that mass of people.



"You're not making general statements - you're making blanket statements that DON'T encompass everyone on Stratics, nor everyone that plays UO."

I think I already covered where I targeted people who said things I mentioned, never once pretended to cover all of UO, nor these forums.


"I also think you and others take yourselves a little too seriously about some things. Fear? Over a video game? Please. I've walked away before, and I'd have no issues doing it again."

what am I taking too seriously? Also, I'm glad you can walk away, well you claim you can. You're still here so you haven't actually tested that. But I know plenty of people who can't walk away. (before you try to twist those words, I am not implying you should leave).


"Sarcasm doesn't display very well in a textual format, and given that fact, what should a person think when confronted with a post of that nature? We've both been at this long enough to know the difference, and to know better."

Sarcasm is pretty hard to pick up on, I agree. everything is in the scope of the artist, something I think is blatant sarcasm can be taken as dead serious to another. No way around that, and nothing we can do about it. Because on the flip side, things I try to be dead serious about can be taken as sarcasm.


"It's real simple. Voting on Stratics doesn't mean jack nor squat. Posting, screaming, pontificating, demanding - none of them mean a thing. The only thing that matters to EA, bottom line, is the only control we really have - what we allow to exit our wallets in their direction. I've made my peace with the fact that if things continue going down a certain road that *I* see it going in, I will once again walk away."


you never walked away from UO, you took a Hiatus at best. They still have you, because you're still here. Not a single person on these forums has EVER walked away from UO. because to some degree they are still tied to the game by coming here. Again, not telling you to leave, just saying.

when it comes to voting with my wallet, I still pay in hopes of regaining what once was to a degree. I keep paying to support the cause, because every bit helps. But the entire "voting with your wallet" debate that's gone on for years i thought was settled, yes you 'vote' for the product, but handing over money has never had a reason attached to it. That's why companies keep trying to figure out customer satisfaction levels, just because they pay for your service NEVER means they are always happy with it. And I hope EA is no different than most companies, and they can see that difference.


*edit* was going to fix the typos, but became lazy

 

[HD2300]

As I posted, Mythic is gathering info in the next 6 months before they make a decision.

This event has been an eye opener. The most vocal Classic shard supporters have gone into bloodlust mode. imo there is no doubt now that the Classic Shard will be mainly PvPers, and most non-PvPers that go on the shard will be driven off.

Stat loss on res on a primarily PvP shard will then be pointless. You dont have it on Seige or in Darkfall. For a PvP shard, it is not only wussy but stupid. You will have 20 blues to 1 red ratios, which will minimise the chances for PvP, as less reds means less PvP. The only benefit is that crap blue "pvpers" can go out and gank reds.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Oh yes...

 

[HD2300]

I just am thinking back to all the WAR...and the sad thing is Mythic did not have to go so bat**** crazy pro PVP in their attempts to save the game, there was a really diverse population, then the six counterstrike kids started screaming and Mythic in their infinite stupidity listened , and now...well now this week’s producer is gutting the last vestiges of the PVE game and international version are already being mothballed, the mythic store is closing and they are still listening to the six counter strike kids - jotoll

 

[Violence]

I have been rather vocal that all neon ... everything ... needs to go.

Also, you are right, cheating needs to be dealt with before a Classic Shard goes live...100% agree on that.

But, what most of us are asking for when it comes to a Classic Shard is not simply a 'toned-down version of what we have now'...we are asking for no AoS...period...and that includes all the skills that came with it (Chiv, Necro, and everything after that as well).

Disabling those skills? I would then probably be negative towards a Classic Shard being created.. I like to have variety. Then again it would not really concern me.

Taking care of cheating does, and I'd like to add that it should be done even before the new Factions system goes live.

 

[Evlar]

"Sarcasm doesn't display very well in a textual format, and given that fact, what should a person think when confronted with a post of that nature? We've both been at this long enough to know the difference, and to know better."

Sarcasm is pretty hard to pick up on, I agree. everything is in the scope of the artist, something I think is blatant sarcasm can be taken as dead serious to another. No way around that, and nothing we can do about it. Because on the flip side, things I try to be dead serious about can be taken as sarcasm.

Being British... and often sarcastic with humourous intent, not all, but quite a lot of Americans, seem not to "get it".

Not trying to make a sweeping statement or be offensive there. Just an observation. It's entirely the reason why when the rights are bought for British comedy shows, they're changed entirely to suit the American audience. "The Office" is one such show that springs to mind. I also hear that "Little Britain" didn't work quite as well for the American audience. Most were offended I hear. I guess some people, regardless of nationality, even take comedy seriously...

Quite true though, that when in written form, sarcastic comments might not always come across as intended.

Anyhow, in case anything I say causes undue offence ever, here's some safety winks...

 

[Llewen]

Being British... and often sarcastic with humourous intent, not all, but quite a lot of Americans, seem not to "get it".

Never a truer word was spoken. I could say more, but I will restrain myself...

 

[HD2300]

This post http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=207481 on day #9 of the quest. Pity it was locked as EA could have got a lot of valuable feedback from it.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Disabling those skills? I would then probably be negative towards a Classic Shard being created.. I like to have variety. Then again it would not really concern me.

Exactly...if you wouldn't play on it, then why let it concern you. That's the point I have been making for a while now.

Taking care of cheating does, and I'd like to add that it should be done even before the new Factions system goes live.

I agree.

 

[Derium of ls]

Being British... and often sarcastic with humourous intent, not all, but quite a lot of Americans, seem not to "get it".

Not trying to make a sweeping statement or be offensive there. Just an observation. It's entirely the reason why when the rights are bought for British comedy shows, they're changed entirely to suit the American audience. "The Office" is one such show that springs to mind. I also hear that "Little Britain" didn't work quite as well for the American audience. Most were offended I hear. I guess some people, regardless of nationality, even take comedy seriously...

Quite true though, that when in written form, sarcastic comments might not always come across as intended.

Anyhow, in case anything I say causes undue offence ever, here's some safety winks...

I'm a HUGE fan of things like Red Dwarf, Fawlty towers, are you being served ect. What annoys the HELL out of me is when they add a laugh track in once it's shown in America. How sad is it that we need to be told when to laugh at something?!

For those of you that don't know, most of the world hates using laugh tracks. But here in the states it's pretty much mandatory in order for a show to work.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Americans are full of pride, no way they'll be laughing when it's an unfunny part... and sarcasm is the big brother of hate, irony is fine in my book however ; theres a big difference.