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[Discussion] RARES FESTIVAL SCAM ALERT! Please Read!

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L

Luke Carjacker

Guest
I'm going to withdraw my complaint now that a public apology has been issued. I will be patient and wait for PAH staff to work through the issues. I have always believed them to be honest.
 
Y

Yalp

Guest
wait...........so some very experienced UO players set up a situation that allowed a very exclusive number of people access to a great number of other players rares and someone or someone(s) stole them through legal in game mechanics?

Nice scam... and oh so much easier than hacking someone's account!

1) get people to freely give up their highly valuable pixels
2) steal pixels
3) get people to donate gold pixels
4) give other people's gold pixels to original owners
5) sell some pixels to opportunistic profit-mongers
6) dupe remaining rare pixels
7) Sell "rares" over and over
8).... priceless!

There is nothing EA can NOR should do to the thief(s). However if dupes end up on the market, I will expect swift action to be taken against any account who possess or sell these items.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The person(s) at fault are the ones that allowed the theives access to their stuff.

Also, they should be repaying real $$ for said items, as the value of UO gold really isn't pennies on the dollar.

Sorry you lost X- here's some dupped gold for your troubles.

While sad, I also find it rather humorus at how people in this game can continue to screw people over/backstab them/verbally bash them yet people keep accepting them, taking them back into the fold.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
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Stratics Legend
There is nothing EA can NOR should do to the thief(s). However if dupes end up on the market, I will expect swift action to be taken against any account who possess or sell these items.
I disagree that EA should do nothing.

I would track said items and the number of said items. Then start banning people left and right as soon as the dups starting showing up.
 
B

Budweiser KDL

Guest
What made me laugh about this whole scenario.

People said the items where worth 10billion plus...i informed them that GL's auction took 5billion over 2days...they then went on to say

"GL SUCKS Pacific is the heart of the rares community!"

So...this activity is the true heart of the rares community??
The Scammer was from another shard. And Pac is still a great shard. Like everything in UO if you trust someone with your stuff, be prepared to loose it, (account, items, house)etc.
 

Tomas_Bryce

Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
All I have to say is unreal TB if you removed this.
Nope, I certainly did not. I have not seen the post but if it broke the rules of the forums then a moderator is left with very little choice - regardless of what we might think personally.
 

Apetul

Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Nope, I certainly did not. I have not seen the post but if it broke the rules of the forums then a moderator is left with very little choice - regardless of what we might think personally.
If u want to read the thread, I've saved the first 13 posts including the screenshots.
BTW, another thread gone is the one that was titled "What do you think of this?" started like a month ago by Rowan elizabeth. Mesanna did post on that thread, but well.. someone deleted/moved/whatever it too. (I've saved the first 100 posts on that thread, too)
EDITED: nm, that thread wasnt moved/deleted

Anyway, if u want to read it let me know.
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
Alumni
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I moved it, I had to. The posting of private conversations is a breach of RoC.
 

lineman

Rares Fest Host | Ches Jan 2011
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I moved it, I had to. The posting of private conversations is a breach of RoC.
There should have been an exception made in this case because of the magnitude of it and those involved. And this thread is breaking Roc as well from names being mentioned, mainly my own but yet it remains. Nice dbl standard on this one
 
D

DJ Sandman

Guest
First of all, I’m taking full responsibility for the negative events that happened this Saturday at the Pacific Rare’s Events Festival Auction with the Robbery of items. I thought we had everything 100% secure and put my trust in some people who seemed truly trustworthy. I was very wrong thinking this.

I would like to apologize to all of Sosaria, the Pacific Shard, staff members of the Pacific Rare’s Events Festival and most of all the players who entrusted their wonderful rare items to the PAH. Please accept my sincere "I’m Sorry".

The PAH Staff with the help of WRR is working hard to replace or pay the sellers for the items they lost to the Robbers. I will not call this person a Thief..."Thief’s" in UO use game mechanics to steal and this person with their team did not use any skill to "Rob" the PAH.

With all the events happening this weekend I could not get into all I needed to start the process of replacement of items or to cover lost items in gold. This process will start tonight. I have received many ICQs and as you have seen here in this tread, there are people with big hearts wanting to replace items with no questions asked or help out with gold..I say God Bless to those fine people wanting to help and I will contact you in person somehow to move this forward. Please be patient if you have lost items and feel free to contact me via ICQ on the progress. (My ICQ # is on the Whispering Rose Radio web site)

I will release a statement about whom the robbers were and who their support was as soon as I have a final report from the Team outside of EA/UO that is investigating the incident. Believe it or not this may be a real life criminal act and someone may serve real time in prison for how this was done.
 
B

BeefSupreme

Guest
I will release a statement about whom the robbers were and who their support was as soon as I have a final report from the Team outside of EA/UO that is investigating the incident. Believe it or not this may be a real life criminal act and someone may serve real time in prison for how this was done.
Just what I posted in the UHall thread. I really hope you pursue this avenue.
Thanks to 'gold brokers' UO items have a real money tangible value.
Doesn't matter if it's virtual or not. If there's proof of theft and conspiracy you're on to something.
 

Demonous

Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I moved it, I had to. The posting of private conversations is a breach of RoC.
the main person that runs stratics really needs to rethink all the rules regarding posting on these forums, its not a government website and does not need to be treated as strict as one
 
N

NorCal Uo Dealer

Guest
I will release a statement about whom the robbers were and who their support was as soon as I have a final report from the Team outside of EA/UO that is investigating the incident. Believe it or not this may be a real life criminal act and someone may serve real time in prison for how this was done.[/QUOTE]

I hope you get all that are involved.. one is bank sittin in his oak leaf cloak.. and jail time would be a huge warning to any others that tried to pull some sh*t like this again
 
Y

Yalp

Guest
I disagree that EA should do nothing.

I would track said items and the number of said items. Then start banning people left and right as soon as the dups starting showing up.
/agreed... I also hope they noted all rares id numbers so if dupes from ANY of the rares start showing up they can track it and take action.

But how can EA/Mythic do anything to the person(s) who stole the items? They were legally made co-owners of the house? They were legally granted access? Did they use any exploit? Hack? Cheat? Did they break any TOS to commit this theft? I am scratching my head over that one.

Perhaps the forthcoming report on the incident will shed light....
 
R

rockkandy

Guest
I think PAH and WRR will find it very hard to find a lawyer to represent the case on hand... Taking someone's items in a game that they gave you access to take is not against the law. pixels are pixels...

I have personally lost PLENTY of items to scammers and cheats...

Thats UO...

The owner of the house accessed someone to the house that they shouldn't have.. End of story..


Someone hands you the keys to a chest that has a billion dollars in it and walks away, what do YOU do?
 

Flutter

Always Present
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Funny someone asked me just recently why I don't participate in these things...
 
D

DJ Sandman

Guest
/ I also hope they noted all rares id numbers so if dupes from ANY of the rares start showing up they can track it and take action.QUOTE]

If any item is moved to a different shard the number is changed...I was told this by a EA Staff member a while ago.
 
D

DJ Sandman

Guest
I think PAH and WRR will find it very hard to find a lawyer to represent the case on hand... Taking someone's items in a game that they gave you access to take is not against the law. pixels are pixels...

I have personally lost PLENTY of items to scammers and cheats...

Thats UO...

The owner of the house accessed someone to the house that they shouldn't have.. End of story..


Someone hands you the keys to a chest that has a billion dollars in it and walks away, what do YOU do?
This is the same as if you let some one in your house in real life..could be a friend or it could be the plumber...if they steal from you it is breaking the law and from what I'm being told I will not need to get a lawyer...I just need to press charges. (Is good having friends that work in the right places)
 

NB-Cats

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I hate to burst the dream bubble but no legal actions can be taken over anyone who scams in Ultima Online unless he planted a virus in someones computer.

If it's a scare tactic, it's a weak one...
 

lineman

Rares Fest Host | Ches Jan 2011
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As much as I hope this guy drives off a cliff Sandman I have to disagree with you. What law did he break?. Was it a scam yes. A very well planned scam. Will he be banned for it. NO. what rule did he break in game?. May as well throw the cuffs on owner too for allowing a known thief access to billions of other people rares.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
/agreed... I also hope they noted all rares id numbers so if dupes from ANY of the rares start showing up they can track it and take action.

But how can EA/Mythic do anything to the person(s) who stole the items? They were legally made co-owners of the house? They were legally granted access? Did they use any exploit? Hack? Cheat? Did they break any TOS to commit this theft? I am scratching my head over that one.

Perhaps the forthcoming report on the incident will shed light....
This is something I try my best to keep informed on. Because working in IT security, it covers similar issues/areas.

I am not sure this type of case has been brought before the US court system. BUT, I do know that simlar ones have been resolved in other countries and they have resulted in fines and jail time for the offenders.

Because, while in one light, they are just pixels, the 'items' do have a trangible value. Both real and sentimental value. The taking of something without permission is stealing. And there is a value that can be assigned to it.

Anyone that believes otherwise is in for a rather rude awakening.
 

Flutter

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I gotta agree with the above, it's not against any rule in UO (or in real life for that matter) to take stuff out of a chest you are accessed to in the game. By granting access you are basically sharing the items in that chest with others.

I am very sorry people lost their stuff, maybe a lesson will be learned. Then again maybe not.

We all have to realize here that if we hand an item to someone else in the game it is no longer ours. If we access someone to chests in our house we are willing to share what is in them with the people who are accessed/friended/co-owned.
Yes, sometimes we trust the wrong people. It happens. But to say real life laws have been broken? No. Someone in UO just turned out not to be as trustworthy as you thought they were.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
/ I also hope they noted all rares id numbers so if dupes from ANY of the rares start showing up they can track it and take action.QUOTE]

If any item is moved to a different shard the number is changed...I was told this by a EA Staff member a while ago.
Even if the item ID number is changed, it isn't impossible to track. Yeah, it might actually take a little effort, but it CAN be done.

There are more values than just the item ID that can be used to track something.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Funny someone asked me just recently why I don't participate in these things...
Yeah, I was thinking of getting involved myself. Having played since October 98, I've gathered some interesting stuff.

This has definately put an axe into that idea.
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I hate to burst the dream bubble but no legal actions can be taken over anyone who scams in Ultima Online unless he planted a virus in someones computer.

If it's a scare tactic, it's a weak one...
Actually, I hate to burst yours. Type in VIRTUAL ROBBERY into google and look what comes up.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-virtual-robbery/story-e6frev20-1111114882738

http://anguloconsulting.com/mkm/b2e..._virtual_robbery_in_onli&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

http://www.informationweek.com/news/security/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=169500364
 

NuSair

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I gotta agree with the above, it's not against any rule in UO (or in real life for that matter) to take stuff out of a chest you are accessed to in the game. By granting access you are basically sharing the items in that chest with others.

I am very sorry people lost their stuff, maybe a lesson will be learned. Then again maybe not.

We all have to realize here that if we hand an item to someone else in the game it is no longer ours. If we access someone to chests in our house we are willing to share what is in them with the people who are accessed/friended/co-owned.
Yes, sometimes we trust the wrong people. It happens. But to say real life laws have been broken? No. Someone in UO just turned out not to be as trustworthy as you thought they were.
If you give someone a key to your house and they take your furnature, it is still theft. Just because you grant someone the right to enter/give someone access, that does not grant them the right to take something.
 

lineman

Rares Fest Host | Ches Jan 2011
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Theft is legally part of the game. Theft isnt legally part of real life. Big difference.
 

chad

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
There isn't a single item in all of UO that belongs to you. Every single item in the game is the property of EA. It always has been, it always will be. You can't start a case of items that don't actually belong to you in the first place...
 

Flutter

Always Present
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Just because you grant someone the right to enter/give someone access, that does not grant them the right to take something.
In UO it does, otherwise you set the chest to "owner only".
In UO you hand someone your talisman of lost noobies and it then belongs to them, in real life you hand someone the keys to your car it's still your car.
There's a substantial difference.
The chests have different access levels for a reason. You chose who you grant access to, giving them permission to take items out of the chest. If you do not give permission for them to take the items, then set the access to a higher level.
 
Y

Yalp

Guest
/ I also hope they noted all rares id numbers so if dupes from ANY of the rares start showing up they can track it and take action.QUOTE]

If any item is moved to a different shard the number is changed...I was told this by a EA Staff member a while ago.
They could track accounts who transferred a toon off Pacific, no? They could track down the items no matter which shard via a simple search program? This would help to locate them.. and with the publicity this has caused, having a list of what was stolen, the thief can ONLY 1) sell the items privately or 2) sit on them.

They take a huge risk that the person they make a sale with won't make a public announcement as to where they are and who has them.. the moment any of these items pops up on a vendor or listed on the forums for a price check, everyone will know who has them. If dupes start popping up, it should be fast action for EA to step in.
 
M

Markess [CoW]

Guest
HOLY COW IM GLAD I DIDNT SUBMIT MY 2 STORY TALKING STATUE + OTHER ITEMS WORTH ABOUT 750MIL.
 
D

DVI

Guest
when someone transfers an item they id for it changes and ea either doesnt know how or refuses to do the research to track items once that happens
 
R

rockkandy

Guest
This is the same as if you let some one in your house in real life..could be a friend or it could be the plumber...if they steal from you it is breaking the law and from what I'm being told I will not need to get a lawyer...I just need to press charges. (Is good having friends that work in the right places)


Unfortunately you are incorrect again Sandman... As stated before in this thread, UO has access settings on containers as well as houses.. If you access someone to a certain container in the game, this gives them free run to take anything out of the container or put anything in the container they wish...

This being said, I have seen the "reverse pickpocket" happen many times as well. Where a person leaves a container open to people they shouldnt, ends up with a container full of duped items... Player with the chest full of duped items is then paged on and ultimately banned...


If the access of houses and containers was never "bugged" or "hacked" by this person, then the only person at fault is the house owner...

This game is set up for you to set all counter measures against this sort of thing happening, if you chose not to follow up on these, and someone takes your items using complete and legal TOS actions, you are quite simply SOL....
 

Sarsmi

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I feel badly for the people who had items up for auction. At least they will (presumably) get gold in return for the stuff, even if it may not quite be what they were hoping for.

Having said that, that's the only group I pity.

Clearly the auction house runners need to refine their protocol for determining who is trustworthy and who is not. Whatever system they use failed and needs refinement, and it will probably take a long time for many to trust them again.

I read in another thread they caught the "thief" and banned the account. Which is BS. I don't respect the guy, but he acted within the mechanics that the game allows. I have had stuff stolen out of chests as well, and yeah it sucks, but the only person to blame was myself.

To threaten this person with legal action or assume it would come down to that is patently ridiculous, and I think people are letting their emotions run away with them.

Ridiculous like people waxing on about the emotional attachment they would have to these pixels - I don't find it ridiculous to have such attachments, except that these were items up for auction. Their owners were selling them, not cherishing them. So maybe leave the maudlin sentiment out of things, it's a bit silly.
 
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