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[Feedback] Publish 71

Merion

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The apples are intended to be a pvp change but they do change pvm massively. this nerf will be highly unpopular among nearly all players.

Having high chivalry impacting more is a good thing, but as it is, the influence of karma was reduced too much.

I fear this might end up in a big buff for necro-mystics.

how about some love for melee chars? We always get the short end of the stick...
 

funkymonkey

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Can we toogle specs like we used to beable to do with tank mages and such like, that also would open up more templates for pvp.

Cheers!
 

lucitus

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Well, thanks for making it harder to keep for us, casual PvM players without 100's of millions stashed in bank. Readjusting templates is sure fun.

What I absolutely hate about this otherwise lovely game is how PvM gets affected just to make PvP crowd a lil more happy. Can't you keep it separate like many other popular MMOs do? Remember in late 99 you did the right thing but it was too late.
It is a general change, in UO and thats why i like it so much PvM and PvP are not seperated, like you play on a only PvM shard or only PvP shard. The mixture is cool, but nobody have todo the one or the other thing.

Also the changes feel good, also on my current template, chiv feels more usefull again, the damage is almost the same, but now also with the mana consume change it makes it more interesting, with the new buff icons you can easily control your combat, nice ;)
 

G.v.P

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Game Balance Changes
Fixed an issue related to stabling pets prior to death.
Oh really...hmm.

Players can obtain Ophidian Loyality by killing Terathans
Nice.

Sound has been added to Tinkering.
OP!

Pet Leather wolf golems will no longer be able to summon help.
UP! :(

Characters created with the legacy client now start with 120 skill points to match the EC instead of 100. Characters can also start with four skills instead of three.
Sweet! No more using the EC to make new chars ;D.
 

Pinco

UOEC Modder
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
· Item properties will no longer appear for objects under the floor
still if you click in a tile it will select the object under the floor...
 

Elric_Soban

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
they took away Enemy of One working on players?

Yeah I guess we don't want paladins participating in PvP or anything.

I also think they were weak to cave on the whole 40% SDI thing and drop it to 30. An extra 15% SDI probably isnt enough to justify going pure and getting otherwise destroyed by hybrid temps.
 

Baby Bear

Visitor
Enchanted Apples: 30 is a long time.:(
I think 20 is a reasonable time.

Lightning Strike:Mana Cost 10 is the most
I want a little lower Mana Cost.
Subject to fewer skills than Spm Cost point Skill300.
And other skills are put chivalry.

Chivalry: Change is good

----------------
Sorry, I'm poor at English:confused:
 

Baby Bear

Visitor
Focus Skill Spec (PVP) forgot to write about.
Throwing and archery skills put to the main.
It is better to put long-range attack skill.
You put too strongly with long-range attack skills.
 

semmerset

Seasoned Veteran
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
remove curse item
Now we have 2 remove curse item.
1 is enchanted apple and another is faction bandage.
Both cooldown time 15 sec now.

Why only enchant apple's cooldown time increased ?
The difference of 15sec is too large.
If the difference of time is necessary,I hope 20sec!

I examined entering in faction as it was apple cooldown 45sec.
And I dont fight faction...:coco:
 
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Tinsil

Guest
I also think they were weak to cave on the whole 40% SDI thing and drop it to 30. An extra 15% SDI probably isnt enough to justify going pure and getting otherwise destroyed by hybrid temps.
The biggest problem here is outside of the gate, most fights are done in dungeons, where having 50 sdi hailstorms in a grinder and such just is not going to make it fun at all.
 

Sprago

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
i just wanna say i think these changes are all great and i hope the make it to all the shards soon
 

Lord Raven

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Why are there no patch notes in the patch window?

Why are there no patch notes in UO Herald?...
I was a bit suprised when I clicked to read the patch notes and ended up on Stratics. Why? The UO Herald patch notes stop at the 4/10/11 patch.

Copy/Paste not working there at UO?
 

gunneroforgin

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Schools of magical fish? You have got to be kidding. I treat these as junk items like shoes. I don't see a reason for me to chase schools of junk when fishing. If I can use the junk fishing hook to prevent me from catching JUNK fish as well as shoes then all would be good. I was hoping something like gold would be added as incentive to do more fishing quests.
 

Willard

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Looks like a good Publish. Nice to see some things have been changed based on player feedback. Look forward to public release!
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
@Dan

Remember that 0 karma is different from negative karma. So close wounds at 0 karma is about 2x what you'd heal for at negative karma.

@Lyc
Sorry about the wording. No plans for 120 poisoning yet.
For casting Lesser Poison through deadly poison, Average skill is factored.
So you can cast deadly on your mage with 120 magery/80 poison.
To cast Lethal you must have GM poison and at least GM magery. (Higher than 100 magery does not increase the chance.)
--Fields: Poison fields inherit much of the attributes of the caster so they should be affected by the poison changes.

@Obsidian
The secondary skills are still in effect.

@Elric
Enemy of one: still works in PvP
 
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Tokelau

Guest
Who on earth was this lightning strike change aimed at? My wammy doesn't notice cuz leech, but my RP pure samurai is sucking wind now whenever a fight lasts a while. Darn overpowered RP chars.
 
F

Fishy McHook

Guest
on the herald it say u need to download new clint for the tc so were is it?:cursing:
 
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Tinsil

Guest
Throwing needs a nerf in damage or archery needs a buff, one or the other. It's pretty clear. The weapons are 1handed and do more damage than Archery, as well as hit better.

I ran some #s on what a typical suit might have using UO Stratics Weapons list comparing weapons of the same exact speed.

Comp Bow: 13-17 damage and 31.14 DPS.
Elven Comp: 12-16 damage and 28.86 DPS.
Soul Glaive (1h): 18-22 damage and 41.43 DPS.

Alternatively, if you take a look at the 3s weapons, the cyclone wins out by about 13 DPS over the magical shortbow. Now it's kinda hard to factor in special adjustment, but the specials on all of the throwing weapons are basically perfect, so throwing would win out there anyways.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Throwing needs a nerf in damage or archery needs a buff, one or the other. It's pretty clear. The weapons are 1handed and do more damage than Archery, as well as hit better.

I ran some #s on what a typical suit might have using UO Stratics Weapons list comparing weapons of the same exact speed.

Comp Bow: 13-17 damage and 31.14 DPS.
Elven Comp: 12-16 damage and 28.86 DPS.
Soul Glaive (1h): 18-22 damage and 41.43 DPS.

Alternatively, if you take a look at the 3s weapons, the cyclone wins out by about 13 DPS over the magical shortbow. Now it's kinda hard to factor in special adjustment, but the specials on all of the throwing weapons are basically perfect, so throwing would win out there anyways.
What he said.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
30 second apples...

vs..

someone who can go in pro if needed and spam spell plague...with pixies

someone who can go in pro if needed and spam all kill with hailstorms and a trigger.

list goes on and on,

mortal
evil omen
blood oath
strangle

any address to removing all the curses and mortal from cleansing winds? cause i cast it on my mystic and can remove every curse and mortal every single time. post last patch.

this is just some of them so basically...
let everybody cast as normally do even more damage and guys who dont have these abilities **** off? that what we getting at?

i mean unless they want reds to have gm chiv now or something.

patch is just killin us.

whatever i dont think they could balance a scale.
Just sign my petition to have "remove protection" scrolls created! Same casting speed as protection scrolls. Obv my remove protection scroll could remove protection from people I'm fighting.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Throwing needs a nerf in damage or archery needs a buff, one or the other. It's pretty clear. The weapons are 1handed and do more damage than Archery, as well as hit better.

I ran some #s on what a typical suit might have using UO Stratics Weapons list comparing weapons of the same exact speed.

Comp Bow: 13-17 damage and 31.14 DPS.
Elven Comp: 12-16 damage and 28.86 DPS.
Soul Glaive (1h): 18-22 damage and 41.43 DPS.

Alternatively, if you take a look at the 3s weapons, the cyclone wins out by about 13 DPS over the magical shortbow. Now it's kinda hard to factor in special adjustment, but the specials on all of the throwing weapons are basically perfect, so throwing would win out there anyways.
No double hit spell on thrower weps like you see on archery though.
 
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Tinsil

Guest
I know there's no double hit spell, but at the same time you don't have to add a balanced mod or could carry a shield if you wanted. Don't forget you hit more with throwing too.

Even if you add in the velocity hitting 50% (another mod counted too), the damage is still well below what the throwing DPS is. That's pretty messed up.. Two more mods and still less damage.

As I posted in the other thread on UHall, it's not so much that throwing is insanely OP, but that the discrepancy in damage is way too large. One possible way to alleviate the problem here is to buff archery's damage slightly for non tamers, or just to buff period.

The changes coming benefit mages more imo, in a game where mages are already overall better in team fights, and are on par solo, so a buff to archery damage while leaving throwing the same would probably be a good idea.
 

Lynk

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No double hit spell on thrower weps like you see on archery though.
That isn't true, I got a double hit spell cyclone off of Primeval lich during a raid the other day. I forget the name of it.. but it has hit harm and velocity both above 40.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
@Dan

Remember that 0 karma is different from negative karma. So close wounds at 0 karma is about 2x what you'd heal for at negative karma.

@Lyc
Sorry about the wording. No plans for 120 poisoning yet.
For casting Lesser Poison through deadly poison, Average skill is factored.
So you can cast deadly on your mage with 120 magery/80 poison.
To cast Lethal you must have GM poison and at least GM magery. (Higher than 100 magery does not increase the chance.)
--Fields: Poison fields inherit much of the attributes of the caster so they should be affected by the poison changes.

@Obsidian
The secondary skills are still in effect.

@Elric
Enemy of one: still works in PvP

That didn't really answer my question Logrus. I am saying at 0 Karma and 120 Chivalry I was healing for 30-33 and when I got 18.2k Karma with 120 Chivalry I was healing for 38-40. Healing for 40 was the most I was healing for and that is with 18.2k POSITIVE Karma and 120 Chivalry. Shouldn't I be healing for more then that if you have max Karma it would be equal to 1.5 x 30 = 45. So with 0 Karma and 120 Chivalry you take the 30 Chivalry since that was what I was healing for MINIMUM and times it by 1.5 for if you have max Karma. That's the formula you presented in the other thread and that comes out to being 45. Am I not healing for as much as I should be or is it a bug or what?
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Can we get Slayers to work when players are polymorphed or necromancers are in Wraith, Lich or Vampiric Embrace form.

The problem i've been having is a necro mage right now can omen mana vamp you, hop into wraith form and dismount you and then just cast mini spells on you till your out of mana and theres nothing a person can do but run off or hope your offense is better then there defense. More then likely though all they have to do is stay alive and throw a spell at you every now and then and you are going to blow through ur mana pool. Can something be done about this. Let us use Undead slayers when necros are in Wraith form because only mystic mages can Purge them out, so it kind of leaves the rest of us screwed. The way a person can go into Orc form when a dexer is using conjurors trinket and do almost double dmg to the dexer. When a necro is in wraith form we should be able to use an undead slayer on them. It's the cheapest thing to do, sit there and Omen Mana vamp, and hop into wraith form.
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Its working as expected. The numbers in the other thread were an extremely simplified example of how chivalry power is factored.

I'm going to appologize for the math before hand.
The way chiv power is calculated is
(SQRT(KarmaFactor% * ChivFactorFromSkill) * SpellFactor) + Spell Deviation
KarmaFactor is between 50% and 150% (.5 - 1.5)
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Enemy of One:
Increased PvP duration to 12 seconds.
Slight buff to EOO PvM and PvP damage.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Its working as expected. The numbers in the other thread were an extremely simplified example of how chivalry power is factored.

I'm going to appologize for the math before hand.
The way chiv power is calculated is
(SQRT(KarmaFactor% * ChivFactorFromSkill) * SpellFactor) + Spell Deviation
KarmaFactor is between 50% and 150% (.5 - 1.5)
Sorry Logrus I am very confused lol, does that mean the formula would look like this below:

( 150% x 120 ) x 30 + ???


I am just trying to find out how much I will heal for with 120 Chivalry and 30k Karma (Assuming that 30k Karma would be the max at 1.5 (150%). Or if there even is much of a difference from 18k to 30k in how much I will heal for. I can't figure out what the numbers are though with the formula above.
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Max karma is 20k, so once you'll be healing probably for around 40 max with full karma. And you can hit that without 20k karma, though you'll be getting alot more 38s thrown in there until you hit max.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Max karma is 20k, so once you'll be healing probably for around 40 max with full karma. And you can hit that without 20k karma, though you'll be getting alot more 38s thrown in there until you hit max.
Yeah at only 18.2k Karma with 120 Chivalry my minimum is 38 and I heal for that much quite often and then sometimes i'll get the 40. When I had 77 Chivalry though with 18.2k Karma I was healing for 34-36. It could be just me but that extra 40 points into Chivalry to heal for 4 more is a amount of skill points to invest. I got my hopes up big time when I thought it was going to be healing for 45 :-/. If I had 20k Karma at 77 Chivalry I would probably be healing for 36-38, so you really don't gain a lot from having +40 more into Chivalry. I don't quite understand that either, it sounds more karma based still then it is Skill based because at 120 Chivalry and 0 Karma u heal for 30 and get 18k Karma and it bumps up to 38 minimum. The numbers just don't sound quite right.

Is there any chance that the way Chivalry Skill works right now will get revised based upon how much you heal for with Close Wounds? I mean it is definatelly a change now because before you could have 50 Chivalry and still heal the same with max karma. It just only seems like a slight difference. The way it is now your Chivalry skill does affect how much you heal for but its not nearly as much as your Karma does. Karma seems to play more of a part in it then your Chivalry Skill. Is there any chance that it will be more effective so that the Chivalry Skill makes a more significant difference like the Karma is right now? The way it was before I thought if I healed for 30 with no karma and 120 Chiv, then with max karma it would be 45 (doing the 30 x 1.5). That made more sense. Right now you just don't get much of a healing increase when it comes to the Chivalry Skill alone, it still seems more Karma Based and not so much Equally based between Karma and the Skill. Perhaps upping how much you heal for now with 120 Chivalry and 20k Karma by making it so your Chivalry Skill plays a bigger part in how much you heal for. Right now it doesn't seem like it does as much as Karma does. Hopefully I didn't confuse anyone lol.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
That isn't true, I got a double hit spell cyclone off of Primeval lich during a raid the other day. I forget the name of it.. but it has hit harm and velocity both above 40.
I was counting items that you can imbue obv.

I need to make a garg pvp thrower and get one of those cyclones. Harm + Velocity is A-M-A-Z-I-N-G! :)

Yes I know you already knew this, or am I giving you too much credit...
 
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TurboTimmy

Guest
Enemy of One:
Increased PvP duration to 12 seconds.
Slight buff to EOO PvM and PvP damage.
What are the percentages ????

"slight buff" gives us no information. For example what is the EOO damage at 120 Chiv for PvP with this slight buff??

Please be more specific.
 
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TurboTimmy

Guest
Enchanted Apple time should NOT be lowered below 30 seconds.

If the timer is lowered anymore, then a lot of players will choose to run around (or run away) until the said timer has expired.

Having an apple time of 30 seconds (Honestly this should be 45-60secs) requires more strategy on the player's part to decide when the apple is completely necessary for survival.

Apples do not require skill points to use. I think it would be fair to have a timer reduction based on a player's alchemy or cooking skill. If eating apples every 10-15 seconds is so important than skill points should be invested. The other two ways of removing curses in the game require skill points and a stop and cast. Where as apples require NO skill points, and can be eaten on the move.

Bottom line: Apples remove curses and debuffs that players invest skill points in, and using the apple requires 0 skill points. This is why a lengthy timer is necessary
 

R Traveler

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Max karma is 20k, so once you'll be healing probably for around 40 max with full karma. And you can hit that without 20k karma, though you'll be getting alot more 38s thrown in there until you hit max.
My tamer have 30+k karma.
My guess is 32k max possible
 
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TurboTimmy

Guest
It's all been covered thoroughly in the Test Center forum. Just click on the chivalry thread to see:

UO Test Center - Stratics Forums
I am well aware of all the Dev posts, and have read them all.

However, Logrus said the EOO duration has been increased to 12 sec for PvP (previously 8 sec) And a "Slight buff" to the damage.

I already know what was previously stated. I want to know what the new numbers are now

not everyone posts without doing their homework :)
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
I'm still crashing in the EC. But only once or twice so far since the publish, so that might be an improvement.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
What's the bandage interruption calculation with dexterity/healing now? I'd like to know how greater dexterity effects how much damage you can take before you're interrupted.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Max karma is 20k, so once you'll be healing probably for around 40 max with full karma. And you can hit that without 20k karma, though you'll be getting alot more 38s thrown in there until you hit max.
Twenty times healing with Close Wounds at 120 Chivalry and 20.1k Karma on a Blue character. These are what I healed for:

1. 40
2. 40
3. 38
4. 38
5. 40
6. 38
7. 38
8. 40
9. 39
10. 40
11. 38
12. 38
13. 39
14. 40
15. 38
16. 40
17. 40
18. 40
19. 40
20. 40


So as you can see i'm not reaching over 40 at ALL and I could hit 40 at 18k Karma. Alittle over half (11) I am hitting 40 and the other half split between 38's and 39's. Below is a representation of having only 77 Chivalry with 20.1k Karma on a Blue Character healing myself Twenty Times with Close Wounds:

1. 33
2. 32
3. 31
4. 32
5. 31
6. 31
7. 31
8. 32
9. 33
10. 32
11. 31
12. 31
13. 33
14. 33
15. 33
16. 33
17. 32
18. 31
19. 33
20. 31

So with that being said there is what looks to be a pretty big difference from having that extra 43 skill points into chivalry. You gaind about a 7 more healing. It's a change for sure but not a huge compared to how much it is healing for right now on the live shards. Close Wounds will heal for about 3 more then it does already (not a huge change if you ask me) except for the fact that you better take it to 120 skill for the close wounds to be as effective. I think it should heal for over 40 though and I didn't get one close wounds to heal for over 40 at 20.1k Karma and 120 Chivalry. You can see the numbers above. Yes you hit the (40's) but seriously, 40 was the top and nothing AROUND the 40s, 40 was the top. That's like meh not much. Would be nice to see a noticeable difference like 43-45 or so at 20k Karma and 120 Chivalry.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
So with that being said there is what looks to be a pretty big difference from having that extra 43 skill points into chivalry. You gaind about a 7 more healing. It's a change for sure but not a huge compared to how much it is healing for right now on the live shards. Close Wounds will heal for about 3 more then it does already (not a huge change if you ask me) except for the fact that you better take it to 120 skill for the close wounds to be as effective. I think it should heal for over 40 though and I didn't get one close wounds to heal for over 40 at 20.1k Karma and 120 Chivalry. You can see the numbers above. Yes you hit the (40's) but seriously, 40 was the top and nothing AROUND the 40s, 40 was the top. That's like meh not much. Would be nice to see a noticeable difference like 43-45 or so at 20k Karma and 120 Chivalry.
Small clarification here, he said "for around 40 max" meaning 40 would be the max amount you would heal, and you would heal for "around 40" the rest of the time, he also said you "could" heal for 40 at lower karma but you would hit the 38 and less range more often. Aside from what I assume was a misinterpretation on your part I agree with everything else said. (although perhaps lowering the lower end would be a better choice than raising the high, just my opinion considering 4/6 for 40 half or more of the time is pretty high)
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Considering the fact that there upping the SDI Cap and upping how much damage we dish out. It would be nice if they upped how much we heal for with the Close Wounds, especially for a chiv mage. Close Wounds is the only healing method really for a Chiv Mage since they nerfd it years ago our mini heals do like 6-7 at 69 magery making that practically useless. Now Greater Heals are healing for like 45, and mini heals at 120 magery are like 11-13. Would be nice to make it so Close Wounds scales more like a greater heal since that is our only means to heal with really. I'm really against upping damage and making it so we can all dish out all this damage and then leaving how much we can heal for alone and leaving the HP Cap of 150 alone. Eventually we will all be two hit killing one another if they don't touch up on how much we heal for or the HP Cap. I've been pvping a lot on TC1 latelly and I can tell you that most of the dexers over there that will hit you with infectious strike and then AI can do a pretty huge amount of damage. I honestly couldn't imagine fighting a few of them without parry and 4/6 chivalry. They do just to much damage to quickly for you to get that greater heal off, and lets face it mini heals wont do it. So again, it would be nice if we could heal for more.

While were on the topic of Chivalry though i'd also like to see Holy Light do some more damage in pvp and Dispel Evil have a better use in pvp, make it so that it works like a mass dispel regardless of the karma of the target. Especially with Chivalry though please we need to heal for more then this measly 40 max. It feels more like Chiv is getting the "nerf" after nerf after nerf. Now we need 120 Chivalry instead of like 50 to heal for what we are already healing for. Can Chivalry get some freakin love for a change?!


Right now theres really only 3 spells if you are a caster playing with Chivalry that you are gonna use, Close wounds, remove curse and cleanse by fire. Literally EVERYTHING else is practically useless in pvp. Holy light burns to much mana, Dispel Evil you never know when it's going to dispel anything. Concencrate and EOO are both obviously for melee. Yet the spellbook isn't even full when you open a Chivalry book, give us some new spells or buff us, DO SOMETHING for pete sake!
 
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Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Considering the fact that there upping the SDI Cap and upping how much damage we dish out. It would be nice if they upped how much we heal for with the Close Wounds, especially for a chiv mage. Close Wounds is the only healing method really for a Chiv Mage since they nerfd it years ago our mini heals do like 6-7 at 69 magery making that practically useless. Now Greater Heals are healing for like 45, and mini heals at 120 magery are like 11-13. Would be nice to make it so Close Wounds scales more like a greater heal since that is our only means to heal with really. I'm really against upping damage and making it so we can all dish out all this damage and then leaving how much we can heal for alone and leaving the HP Cap of 150 alone. Eventually we will all be two hit killing one another if they don't touch up on how much we heal for or the HP Cap. I've been pvping a lot on TC1 latelly and I can tell you that most of the dexers over there that will hit you with infectious strike and then AI can do a pretty huge amount of damage. I honestly couldn't imagine fighting a few of them without parry and 4/6 chivalry. They do just to much damage to quickly for you to get that greater heal off, and lets face it mini heals wont do it. So again, it would be nice if we could heal for more.

While were on the topic of Chivalry though i'd also like to see Holy Light do some more damage in pvp and Dispel Evil have a better use in pvp, make it so that it works like a mass dispel regardless of the karma of the target. Especially with Chivalry though please we need to heal for more then this measly 40 max. It feels more like Chiv is getting the "nerf" after nerf after nerf. Now we need 120 Chivalry instead of like 50 to heal for what we are already healing for. Can Chivalry get some freakin love for a change?!


Right now theres really only 3 spells if you are a caster playing with Chivalry that you are gonna use, Close wounds, remove curse and cleanse by fire. Literally EVERYTHING else is practically useless in pvp. Holy light burns to much mana, Dispel Evil you never know when it's going to dispel anything. Concencrate and EOO are both obviously for melee. Yet the spellbook isn't even full when you open a Chivalry book, give us some new spells or buff us, DO SOMETHING for pete sake!
Out of curiosity, you run around with 69 magery to pvp? I mean, I can see it considering a majority of the spells cast are small spells, but to be able to cast the big spells is sometimes vital as well, so yea just curious if that's what you are saying.

A lot of people do not agree on which class is actually more powerful, so saying you can't survive against a melee type with out 4/6 chiv heals is only going to cause more debate and useless conversation, but I will say that 40 is a pretty good amount since at 120 magery your greater heals heal for that on the lower side and at twice the length of time. I am basing my opinion on the fact that Close wounds is barely slower than a mini heal for a mage but it gives nearly the same hp replenishment as greater heal does. How do you consider this balance? Should everyone be forced to have less than 70 magery and run 4/6 chiv in order to heal? Arguing that greater heal at 120 gives 5 more hps than close wounds is crazy, I have chiv on one of my favorite characters to play, 55 chiv, I have never considered using close wounds because, well, at 2/6 casting it is not as great as getting off 2-3 mini heals. But on any character that has 4/6 casting, well it is pretty hard to die when you heal for that much that fast.

I would rather see chiv scaled so that the lower end heals less, and then a nice redo on the RNG so that 50% chance to hit is in fact closer to 50% then there would be no complaining about greater heal and mini heal as you could pull off a greater heal more often, or get unlucky and die due to bad timing or tactics or w/e.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Cloak‡1983844 said:
Out of curiosity, you run around with 69 magery to pvp? I mean, I can see it considering a majority of the spells cast are small spells, but to be able to cast the big spells is sometimes vital as well, so yea just curious if that's what you are saying.

A lot of people do not agree on which class is actually more powerful, so saying you can't survive against a melee type with out 4/6 chiv heals is only going to cause more debate and useless conversation, but I will say that 40 is a pretty good amount since at 120 magery your greater heals heal for that on the lower side and at twice the length of time. I am basing my opinion on the fact that Close wounds is barely slower than a mini heal for a mage but it gives nearly the same hp replenishment as greater heal does. How do you consider this balance? Should everyone be forced to have less than 70 magery and run 4/6 chiv in order to heal? Arguing that greater heal at 120 gives 5 more hps than close wounds is crazy, I have chiv on one of my favorite characters to play, 55 chiv, I have never considered using close wounds because, well, at 2/6 casting it is not as great as getting off 2-3 mini heals. But on any character that has 4/6 casting, well it is pretty hard to die when you heal for that much that fast.

I would rather see chiv scaled so that the lower end heals less, and then a nice redo on the RNG so that 50% chance to hit is in fact closer to 50% then there would be no complaining about greater heal and mini heal as you could pull off a greater heal more often, or get unlucky and die due to bad timing or tactics or w/e.


You seem to be missing the point, first of all EVERYONE that wants to run a Chiv Mage template is forced to run less then 70 magery to have 4/6 working :-/. Also at 120 magery your mini heals will heal for twice as much as ours at 69 magery. So you have two ways to heal urself. I said in the previous post that close wounds is the only way for a chiv mage to really heal themselves, time your spells right and you can fizzle the close wounds like all the time. It's just like fizzling a harm. Greater heal at 120 Magery. I haven't played a mage with 120 magery in a while but I don't th ink i've EVER seen it heal for as low as 40 on the low end, comon now. You seem to be forgetting where I mentioned since they are upping the SDI and we have templates out there doing unbelievable amounts of damage, how about upping how much we heal for or upping the 150 HP Cap (which im all for upping how much we heal for). Chivalry is also very mana intensive. I guess arguing about 5 HP less then what you can do at 120 Magery isn't as far fetched as arguing about why we even need to have less then 70 Magery to be 4/6 with Chivalry :-/.

Trust me I would love to run with 120 Magery, but lets look at the facts here. Either Mysticism or Chivalry. Because I for one do not feel like running after I eat an apple when I get mortaled a second time to avoid death. I can see how you may think about it diferently, but Chiv mages really don't get it as easy as you might think we do. For one, we can't even poison cycle you because if you want to be 4/6 your stuck with having half the amount of magery. Do the math and that means you're hardly ever going to get a poison off on your opponent if they have 120 resist. You want to talk about balance, lets go ahead and lift the cap on 4/6 so that we can have 120 magery and still be 4/6 like it used to be back in the day. That way we can atleast get a poison off every now and then instead of once every 10-15 tries and actually be able to get off a spell over 4th circle without Fizzling 90% of the time. Just to be a parry Chiv mage it's very hard and burns lots and lots of mana. Lets take throwing gargoyles though as an example.

I can get hit sometimes 3 and 4 times in a row even WITH Parry and 70 DCI. So if I didn't sacrifice my magery to get the 4/6 Chiv my face would be planted in the dirt a whole lot by those guys. Another thing to consider is, this kind of template really lacks Offense, it's more of a ganking kind of template then a 1v1. I would love to see devs think about Chiv Mages though so we could get some love, we were nerfd in the face a few years ago and it's kinda obvious why you don't see as many around anymore. When you are subject to only being able to cast 4th circle or lower 100% of the time, it limits your damage and pvp capabilities really. It never was just a melee skill and it should not have been nerfd the way it did. Parry shouldn't have even gotten nerfd the way it was.

Those two skills are not Melee ONLY, mages used them as well. Show us some love already, give Chivalry some Offensive CASTING Spells or lift the cap so we aren't stuck with only 69 magery! Now lets start talking about cross healing... Chivalry Close Wounds you can only use if your within like 4 tiles of the person your trying to heal. I think that is enough punishment for Chiv Mages if you ask me. Our greater heals with 69 magery heal for in the 30s making Close Wounds our primary healing ability. And we have to use Greater Heal DESPITE how LITTLE it heals for when were cross healing in the field because most the time not close enough to the team mate to use a close wounds on them.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
You seem to be missing the point, first of all EVERYONE that wants to run a Chiv Mage template is forced to run less then 70 magery to have 4/6 working :-/. Also at 120 magery your mini heals will heal for twice as much as ours at 69 magery. So you have two ways to heal urself. I said in the previous post that close wounds is the only way for a chiv mage to really heal themselves, time your spells right and you can fizzle the close wounds like all the time. It's just like fizzling a harm. Greater heal at 120 Magery. I haven't played a mage with 120 magery in a while but I don't th ink i've EVER seen it heal for as low as 40 on the low end, comon now. You seem to be forgetting where I mentioned since they are upping the SDI and we have templates out there doing unbelievable amounts of damage, how about upping how much we heal for or upping the 150 HP Cap (which im all for upping how much we heal for). Chivalry is also very mana intensive. I guess arguing about 5 HP less then what you can do at 120 Magery isn't as far fetched as arguing about why we even need to have less then 70 Magery to be 4/6 with Chivalry :-/.

Trust me I would love to run with 120 Magery, but lets look at the facts here. Either Mysticism or Chivalry. Because I for one do not feel like running after I eat an apple when I get mortaled a second time to avoid death. I can see how you may think about it diferently, but Chiv mages really don't get it as easy as you might think we do. For one, we can't even poison cycle you because if you want to be 4/6 your stuck with having half the amount of magery. Do the math and that means you're hardly ever going to get a poison off on your opponent if they have 120 resist. You want to talk about balance, lets go ahead and lift the cap on 4/6 so that we can have 120 magery and still be 4/6 like it used to be back in the day. That way we can atleast get a poison off every now and then instead of once every 10-15 tries and actually be able to get off a spell over 4th circle without Fizzling 90% of the time. Just to be a parry Chiv mage it's very hard and burns lots and lots of mana. Lets take throwing gargoyles though as an example.

I can get hit sometimes 3 and 4 times in a row even WITH Parry and 70 DCI. So if I didn't sacrifice my magery to get the 4/6 Chiv my face would be planted in the dirt a whole lot by those guys. Another thing to consider is, this kind of template really lacks Offense, it's more of a ganking kind of template then a 1v1. I would love to see devs think about Chiv Mages though so we could get some love, we were nerfd in the face a few years ago and it's kinda obvious why you don't see as many around anymore. When you are subject to only being able to cast 4th circle or lower 100% of the time, it limits your damage and pvp capabilities really. It never was just a melee skill and it should not have been nerfd the way it did. Parry shouldn't have even gotten nerfd the way it was.

Those two skills are not Melee ONLY, mages used them as well. Show us some love already, give Chivalry some Offensive CASTING Spells or lift the cap so we aren't stuck with only 69 magery! Now lets start talking about cross healing... Chivalry Close Wounds you can only use if your within like 4 tiles of the person your trying to heal. I think that is enough punishment for Chiv Mages if you ask me. Our greater heals with 69 magery heal for in the 30s making Close Wounds our primary healing ability. And we have to use Greater Heal DESPITE how LITTLE it heals for when were cross healing in the field because most the time not close enough to the team mate to use a close wounds on them.
ok admit been awhile since I played on my 120 character, so yea off on the min level of greater heal, but still close wounds casts as fast as mini heal....so still apples to apples you get 40 vs 13? The whole reason it got nerfed is the healing potential out does the damage potential of other templates, it is a choice between offense or defense. As I pointed out I have 120 magery and 55 chiv, the balance is I don't like apples so I use remove curse, I do not feel as if chiv and magery should be allowed to happen at 4/6, and I already expressed my general feeling on how chiv should heal. Remember this is with three of my main play characters having only chiv to heal with, not even magery or any other type of healing ability, so It is not as if I do not use it enough to understand the concept, it is simply my opinion and I think that the 40 4/6 heal is pretty fair.

The only thing about it as you have pointed out is its inability to really be effective in a group-need situation, since you can't heal very well across the map, but then again I tend to stay close enough to who ever it is I am healing to be able to bandage them if I had the ability, just my own play style though, and the two people I play with it works well, I realize it might not work well for you but it is still just my opinion of how things should work.
 

Llewen

Grand Inquisitor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Campaign Supporter
Enhanced Client** 4.0.16.0



  • Fixed an issue that would eventually cause the Enhanced Client to crash if played long enough.
I think I can pretty emphatically state that I am now experiencing more of those ctd's (crash to desktop) than I was before the publish. Twice on the same character I experienced a ctd in the middle of a pvp battle, in the past hour or so. That kinda diminishes the fun factor of the whole pvp experience, if ya know what I mean...
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
I think I can pretty emphatically state that I am now experiencing more of those ctd's (crash to desktop) than I was before the publish. Twice on the same character I experienced a ctd in the middle of a pvp battle, in the past hour or so. That kinda diminishes the fun factor of the whole pvp experience, if ya know what I mean...
A friend of mine who was not experiencing any before the patch has crashed 3 times since it.
 

Dan123The123Man

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
I have another question.


So is having 20k karma all you need to worry about getting when talking about Chivalry? Does the extra 10k when your at 30k Karma (20k+10k=30k) not improve your Chivalry spells anymore? I have not tested this since my guy is still at 20.1k Karma. I was wondering though at 30k has anyone been able to heal with Close Wounds for more then 40 at all?? I mean cause if Chivalry is going to be based upon your Karma level AND Chivalry skill. It should be based upon the Karma ALL the way to 30,000, not just stop at 20,000 and get no benefits after having more then that that. Since the cap on Karma IS 30,000 NOT 20,000. Another reason to make it so it heals for more then 40 if you have 30,000 Karma right there, incase it's not already doing it. 10k Karma is a huge leap to not have any kind of gain, Close Wounds should heal for more then 40 if you have 30,000 Karma.
 
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