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Pub 86 - Traders Quest

Aurelius

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I've not gone Rambo yet because we haven't seen the tier 5 rewards. I've been on TC all day working on them, don't know if I will make it to tier 5 though this weekend.
You might find part of the conversation Kyronix had with folks on TC earlier of interest ...

<5487074>Uqest: Hi kyronix is the mempo with 1fc imbuable? or is it a brand new pre set artifact?
Kyronix: it's imbuable
<5487074>Uqest: thanks
Kyronix: yw
<5487074>Uqest: is it possible to get it with only 1 tir item crates ? or you absolutly need 5 tier items crates ?
Mylar Tyrmitore: Yeah, funny how things work
Kyronix: the mempo?
<5487074>Uqest: yea
Kyronix: the teir just amps up the values for rewards that come in quantity
<5487074>Uqest: ok so the mempo from Slim is just matter of luck to get it ?
Kyronix: yup, gotta roll those dice :)
<5487074>Uqest: so the tier doesnt amps itschance to get it actually
Kyronix: no
Kyronix: just for resource and gold rewards


I'm reading that as meaning the chances of the deco and 'special' items are equally low whatever you turn in - which makes sense of some folks getting the trade signs. for example, on their first or second completed trade quest - whilst the quantities of materials (and gold deposited to the town?) rise with the tier of the deal you complete....but it's VERY late and far too warm here so I may be completely wrong :)
 

Promathia

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I recall it being said somewhere that when you get around tier 5, you are putting around 200k gold into the treasury per trade deal.

Governors and their trade deals will be fine.
 

Dot_Warner

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Right now, Slim is going to be a major factor in the trade orders. Forged pardons are still in demand, and Slim is a veritable printing press. At ~2mil a pop (player selling price), it makes more sense to roll the dice with him and fund the trade deal with the proceeds. The forged pardon drop rate should be lowered to near the "rare" numbers.

I also have to give a rather blank-faced "Meh" to the NPC signs as a reward. Unless we can actually do something with them (engrave them, turn them, *shudders* dye them) they are rather pointless...even as deco. I can only foresee *marginal* use for them.

The good side really needs a consumable that will be in-demand like the pardons. Perhaps something that gives a large virtue point boost like the compassion sage?
 

Dot_Warner

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I recall it being said somewhere that when you get around tier 5, you are putting around 200k gold into the treasury per trade deal.

Governors and their trade deals will be fine.
IF enough people continue to run the orders after they've gotten all the loot they want. Random crafting resources aren't going to be that big of a draw. Non RPers are unlikely to care about the books. The signs...still meh.

The issue deepens when you consider the fact that Slim's rewards are many times more valuable. Does he pay out anything to the sending city?
 

Promathia

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IF enough people continue to run the orders after they've gotten all the loot they want. Random crafting resources aren't going to be that big of a draw. Non RPers are unlikely to care about the books. The signs...still meh.

The issue deepens when you consider the fact that Slim's rewards are many times more valuable. Does he pay out anything to the sending city?
Then how about the Governor themselves do the quest?

I can do the "Good" version of the quest so fast, I don't see how any shard could have a problem with it.

Oh and the signs are awesome, been hoping we'd get them to use for a long long time.
 

Promathia

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That's not the point and you know it.
The point is, sometimes you worry for nothing. I am fully confident the quest will get done, the stones will get money for the trade deals, and everyone will be happy.

I know plenty of people who want the rewards from both versions of the quest.
 

Frarc

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Another thing, and maybe its because the encounter is strong and takes to long to kill. A new encounter seems to appear very fast , even when you fight already one.
 

Jerec KTM

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Right now, Slim is going to be a major factor in the trade orders. Forged pardons are still in demand, and Slim is a veritable printing press. At ~2mil a pop (player selling price), it makes more sense to roll the dice with him and fund the trade deal with the proceeds. The forged pardon drop rate should be lowered to near the "rare" numbers.

I also have to give a rather blank-faced "Meh" to the NPC signs as a reward. Unless we can actually do something with them (engrave them, turn them, *shudders* dye them) they are rather pointless...even as deco. I can only foresee *marginal* use for them.

The good side really needs a consumable that will be in-demand like the pardons. Perhaps something that gives a large virtue point boost like the compassion sage?
I haven't made it to tier 5, but my honest opinion is most people are going to go to Slim as it is. Until there is such a surplus on forged pardons that the price collapses, this is going to be the reward of choice for 9 out of 10 players. Phat loot almost always wins over community benefit. There are countless WoW youtubes of vent channels after an item drop to prove this.

When the price for pardons collapses, I don't think you are going to see it done much. It may be organized on the few shards with (actually) active (I mean it) governors (seriously) not named (c'mon) Atlantic. On the rest, I am expecting the funding issue to rear its ugly head again.

Edit: I'd also note I tried Skara Brae a few times and found the ferry unusable. That seems to be commonly known. Was np, had a boat, but I still think the ferry should be usable. Keep the mainland doable by foot. Leave ships to Moonglow, New Magincia, and Jhelom.
 
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FrejaSP

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I've not gone Rambo yet because we haven't seen the tier 5 rewards. I've been on TC all day working on them, don't know if I will make it to tier 5 though this weekend.
Maybe the full set of rewards won't be on TC, maybe they want to keep something secret. If an reward item already are in game, no need to test it, they can keep some surprises about reward drop to it goes live.
About your concern about fencing the stuff, I was thinking, instead of placing this VvV fights in Virtue towns, where people wish to be safe, what about using the 3 towns where the Traders quest can be fenced to Slim the Fence, Nujel'm, Occlo and Serpent's Hold? On Siege, this would solve a lot trouble as we only have one set towns and losing guards temporary will be bad. No Guards in this 3 towns will not be a problem on Siege vs Fishing Quests or the new Traders Quest. If someone want to fence the box, it's fair enough with a little more risk. It would also increase the risk for fencing stuff on Prodo shards.
 

BeaIank

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Slim rewards definitely need to scale with the order tier.
Making forged pardons only drop for tier 5 boxes would help a lot with this issue.

As it is now, his rewards are much too good, paying far better than the lower level trade quests.

And yes, the ferry in Skara needs to be usable.
 

Aurelius

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Edit: I'd also note I tried Skara Brae a few times and found the ferry unusable. That seems to be commonly known. Was np, had a boat, but I still think the ferry should be usable. Keep the mainland doable by foot. Leave ships to Moonglow, New Magincia, and Jhelom.
We mentioned that one to Kyronix last night on TC, he was going to look into what can be done with that.
 

FrejaSP

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I have a question to this:

"Items required to fill the trade order are generated from the real time inventories of shop keepers in the region."

On Siege, there are a lot items our npc shops do not sell, like pile of wool, will that mean, we do not risk to get orders including stuff not for sale on the towns npc vendors ?.
I see, a town like New Magincia will have less item for the system to choose from.
 

FrejaSP

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The point is, sometimes you worry for nothing. I am fully confident the quest will get done, the stones will get money for the trade deals, and everyone will be happy.

I know plenty of people who want the rewards from both versions of the quest.
I agree, that a lot will do the quests for the money to the Town. I don't think it's a problem some will fence it, a lot will never set their feets in Felucca. I do however understand their complain about this tasty carrots used to draw them to Felucca.
I would like to see some more fun and useful rewards.
Plant seed in new colors useful for the plant dyes and nice looking for deco too
A rare drop of a small soulforge
A rare drop of crafting PS I the items are with the with the quest runners mark
A rare drop of special crafting resources like the crystal for soulstones fragments or the stuff needed to recharge items like the stable post in houses.
 

Obsidian

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My thought is to leave Slim as he is. Just make the rewards on completing the trade deal with the ministers better. Give better artifacts, city related awards, and items people want.
 

Petra Fyde

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Thing is - so far, we don't know how good the city rewards get. No one has had time to do enough quests to find out.
Maybe Slim's rewards should be scaled in the same way so that only something minor is obtained for minor deliveries, saving the uber rewards for the bigger chests? .2 or .3 SoTs instead of 1.0 etc?
 

FrejaSP

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One question, can house teleporters be used, when doing the quest?
 

Gidge

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In regards to not filling the box and arriving with no monster attack. I did not fill my box (not on purpose but just didn't) and monsters popped. The monster spawn is a chance plus if you run fast enough you will out run them before you see their names.

Recommendation: Could you make it so Slim stays for a (random) number of turn ins and then poofs? 1 -5?
 

Jerec KTM

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I agree, that a lot will do the quests for the money to the Town. I don't think it's a problem some will fence it, a lot will never set their feets in Felucca. I do however understand their complain about this tasty carrots used to draw them to Felucca.
I would like to see some more fun and useful rewards.
Plant seed in new colors useful for the plant dyes and nice looking for deco too
A rare drop of a small soulforge
A rare drop of crafting PS I the items are with the with the quest runners mark
A rare drop of special crafting resources like the crystal for soulstones fragments or the stuff needed to recharge items like the stable post in houses.
There is way too much assuming in this thread that people will do things because they want to help the towns. Quite frankly that sort of thought needs to stop here. It's that line of thinking that got us stuck with the horse manure that is the current trade deal system. Everyone thinks that people are good and want to help. No, they don't. They want free stuff. Human civilization has reflected this since history was recorded.

Sure, it's easy, you can just run by the mobs or wait until you get to the city to put the goods in the box... but that novelty of running/riding/sailing between cities is going to wear off REAL QUICK. We've been down this road before. People used to gate the traveler NPCs back and forth to towns and rack up the gold. Then they made it where you had to actually walk them to a moongate. What happened? People stopped doing it. Just walking to a moongate was too much for them.

Your ideas of a small soulforge or soulstone crystals are the type that could maybe, MAYBE, change that tide because that is a valued item... but of course we have to wait to see Tier 5 , and see how awful it is, and hopefully assume the Devs will listen to you. Otherwise hardly anyone will be doing this quest in six months except for the people selling forged pardons.
 
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Jerec KTM

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One question, can house teleporters be used, when doing the quest?
This is a good question. Probably one of the best I've seen asked. I don't have houses on TC1. Some shards like Atlantic have really good housing teleport networks that would definitely work around this if working.

Which raises another question. What about the Banner System... you can use that to teleport to areas... might be worth checking to see if the code works with these too.
 

Petra Fyde

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I can tell you what I've confirmed you can't do.
Can't use 'teleport' spell to get ashore from a boat if the gangplank is too low
Can't short cut through the solen nest.
 

FrejaSP

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There is way too much assuming in this thread that people will do things because they want to help the towns. Quite frankly that sort of thought needs to stop here. It's that line of thinking that got us stuck with the horse manure that is the current trade deal system. Everyone thinks that people are good and want to help. No, they don't. They want free stuff. Human civilization has reflected this since history was recorded.
Here are something you need to understand. This are meant as role play and players actions effect how it goes. If no one turn in quests, the town will be poor and there will not be any trade deal for the citizen. And yes there are good people who will help. There are a big diff in doing quests and turn in your own money and resources. On Siege, I know this will work great. You need to believe in the good in people.

Sure, it's easy, you can just run by the mobs or wait until you get to the city to put the goods in the box... but that novelty of running/riding/sailing between cities is going to wear off REAL QUICK. We've been down this road before. People used to gate the traveler NPCs back and forth to towns and rack up the gold. Then they made it where you had to actually walk them to a moongate. What happened? People stopped doing it. Just walking to a moongate was too much for them.
Yes you can run from the mobs and the City will get less money but maybe you can make an extra run in the time it would take to kill the mobs. And no, monsters will spawn no mater if the items are in the box or now, I tested that.
I do believe the NPC sign can be sold too as some people want to collect everything. It will be easy to changes a few rewards each 6 months to keep the quests going

Your ideas of a small soulforge or soulstone crystals are the type that could maybe, MAYBE, change that tide because that is a valued item... but of course we have to wait to see Tier 5 and then when we see how awful it is, assume the Devs will listen to you. Otherwise hardly anyone will be doing this quest in six months except for the people selling forged pardons.
Devs always listen to me but I do not always get my wish. However, this Traders Quests and new loot is very much what I have begged for the last year. I wanted better over lands loot and wanted players to traveling more so I really feel they do listen.

I also feel they really try to do what is good for the game and the players
Try to give Devs and the players a chance :)
 

FrejaSP

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I can tell you what I've confirmed you can't do.
Can't use 'teleport' spell to get ashore from a boat if the gangplank is too low
Can't short cut through the solen nest.
Now it was house teleport tiles, the reward ones I was asking about :)
And yes, small boats really sucks to this quest, I gave up and got my a garg ship :)
 

Petra Fyde

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Sorted, sorry.
I have a crate that requires 20 cloth.
I have bought each type of folded cloth in the weaver's inventory
I have bought each type of bolt of cloth in the weaver's inventory
I have used scissors on the bolts to create 'cut cloth'
None of these will go in the box. Every attempt gives the message 'This trade order does not require this item'
Problem solved. The Tailor sells an item that is simply called 'cloth' I was talking to the wrong npc.
 

FrejaSP

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BUG

I think. I have a crate that requires 20 cloth.
I have bought each type of folded cloth in the weaver's inventory
I have bought each type of bolt of cloth in the weaver's inventory
I have used scissors on the bolts to create 'cut cloth'
None of these will go in the box. Every attempt gives the message 'This trade order does not require this item'
Did you try to combine it and are you sure it was not bolt of clothes there was asking for?
 

FrejaSP

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Wrong NPC? in wrong town?
I crafted some of the hats in order, with clothes from bank, without trouble
 

Petra Fyde

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I was looking at the weaver, who has 'folded cloth' or 'bolt of cloth'
The tailor has something that is just called 'cloth' - that's the item I needed for the order.
 

FrejaSP

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That sounds as a bug as a piece of clothes should work folded or not :)
 

Aurelius

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Another one that won't work is shadowjump, when carrying a trade quest.

Two slight issues that can arise on trade quests, some items are HEAVY, and a trade quest box with 20 war maces probably means you ain't moving far .... I've not got a multiple item mission yet, but that could become impossible to carry pretty fast if you are unlucky with the required items.

There are workarounds, like using a beetle to carry the items (pack horses would work, but being visible tend to die far too fast to the ambush spawns), or using the rather dubious (to me anyway) leave the pet while you go to the destination, then log out and back in again ...

Funniest trick was to take the empty quest crate to the city who 'needed' the stuff, then buy whatever is required there and fill the container ... which leads me to the question 'so why did they claim they needed this stuff in the first place' :)
 

Obsidian

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This just dawned on me... Could there be a gargish equivalent of Slim's mempo with FC 1? I feel like we are leaving out an entire race with the current reward.
 

Petra Fyde

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or using the rather dubious (to me anyway) leave the pet while you go to the destination, then log out and back in again ...

:)
That one won't work. Loaded pack animals aren't subject to auto stable, if you remember.
 

Aurelius

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That one won't work. Loaded pack animals aren't subject to auto stable, if you remember.
But it would work to get your pack animals empty to 'delivery' towns - since the vendor who sells what you need for a trade quest may be a long way from the trade minister, and for the big weight orders I have twice had to walk very, very slowly, and wait while stamina regenerates... so calling the pack animal to you at the vendor, loading it up, goingto the trade minister and THEN filling the quest crate works...
 

Riyana

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I just went to test if you could use the Buc's Den gate as a shortcut.

There is no Buc's Den gate on TC (at least in Tram). Is this intended?
 

fajico

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I tested and confirmed some other ways to "magically teleport" while I'm on Traders Quest.

You can't use house teleporters (I tried vet reward ones).
You can't use crystal portals (1st yr vet reward, both to towns and to dungeons).
You can't use "My character is physically stuck" option in Help menu.

All met with a system message saying
"You cannot do that while carrying a Trade Order."
 

FrejaSP

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The box can take 550 stones but a lot chars do not have the str for that. I would say, make the box max 250 stones and lower weight for the items, when in the box, maybe lover it to 25% of the normal weight
 

Quickblade

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I tested and confirmed some other ways to "magically teleport" while I'm on Traders Quest.

You can't use house teleporters (I tried vet reward ones).
You can't use crystal portals (1st yr vet reward, both to towns and to dungeons).
You can't use "My character is physically stuck" option in Help menu.

All met with a system message saying
"You cannot do that while carrying a Trade Order."

Ill add to that :
you cant use a bracelet of binding binded to another character while carrying a trade order :)
 

Jerec KTM

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The box can take 550 stones but a lot chars do not have the str for that. I would say, make the box max 250 stones and lower weight for the items, when in the box, maybe lover it to 25% of the normal weight
I'm on the fence on this one. I want people to have to use pack horses, but with the way the spawn is right now, they are dead before anything can be done... any chance for a hp bump for pack animals?

If not, I think you are right, making the items in the container be a reduced weight is the solution. 25% might be a bit too low, but a number that allows them to put it in their pack while still being able to wear some armor and carry a small amount of fighting supplies would be appropriate.
 

Lucky Luke

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I just went to test if you could use the Buc's Den gate as a shortcut.

There is no Buc's Den gate on TC (at least in Tram). Is this intended?
Same on any shard :) New Haven for Trammel and Buccaneer's Den for Felucca
 

Riyana

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Here are something you need to understand. This are meant as role play and players actions effect how it goes. If no one turn in quests, the town will be poor and there will not be any trade deal for the citizen. And yes there are good people who will help. There are a big diff in doing quests and turn in your own money and resources. On Siege, I know this will work great. You need to believe in the good in people
Wrong. I apologize if I come off harsh, but I gotta nix this idea right here because this seems to be what the devs think too and it DOES. NOT. WORK.

Right now, people can contribute to the cities by standing at the bank, pulling out some money, and dropping it on the herald. Ta-da! So easy.

Guess what DOESN'T happen?

I've held extensive city themed events and asked for donations afterward. People say they enjoyed the events. Often they get nice cash prizes (out of my own pocket of course).

Guess what DOESN'T happen?

If people won't drop money on an npc standing right next to the city stone at the bank, why in the world would you expect them to run all over Britannia doing a quest that benefits the city and that they personally get very little from?

The incentive for fencing is tangible, personal wealth. The incentive for taking the items to the city requested is helping the cities LESS than you could for a comparable amount of time hunting if you donated the money... which already no one does. No one is going to do a lengthy and somewhat tedious quest for the smaller of two possible reward pools just to benefit a city that 1) they may not even be a citizen of (since its random) and 2) they don't bother donating to anyway.

I keep seeing people say that we haven't seen the maxed rewards for city quests. Unless they are pretty spectacular (and no such rewards were announced, unlike the nice Slim rewards) this whole thing is almost insulting as far as the governor system is concerned. I am a governor, have been since the beginning, and I'm telling you right now that even the governors won't be doing this quest out of some weird sense of generosity for long--we'll do the Slim quest, sell the loot, and continue resentfully funding the deal ourselves (or not having one at all) and wondering why the devs won't listen when we ask for a better way. That's a stupid system.

The signs and books are finite and decorative only. The forged pardons and SoTs are consumable and always in demand, and Slim gives decorative loot too. There will be an initial flush of money into the city stones when the system goes live... then very little if any once people get their books and signs (and really, what are we going to do with those signs?) and realize that "RPing evil" as some are characterizing fencing the goods consistently gives much, much better rewards. Once again, it will be almost totally on the governors' shoulders to fund the trade deals.

Of course... people aren't going to contribute to cities that don't have their preferred trade buff either, and that can change with governor. Or governor's whim. It really needs to be a choose-your-own arrangement in cities with active trade agreements. But then we're getting into my next point...

Devs always listen to me but I do not always get my wish. However, this Traders Quests and new loot is very much what I have begged for the last year. I wanted better over lands loot and wanted players to traveling more so I really feel they do listen.
I'm glad you think they are listening to you. However, every time the governors ask for a change, they make something worse (one vote per shard) or do something that doesn't really do much for cities despite hinting to governors beforehand that something good was coming to help (traders quest). They introduced this clever, interactive system that requires a great deal of player effort if it is to succeed, then don't seem to listen to what the players who use it have to say.

We know from experience that once something hits test center it usually doesn't change much before hitting production shards.

To be honest, I'm pretty disappointed.
 

Promathia

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I don't think the Traders Quest can be described as long and "tedious". The only part that could ever be assigned that description, is if you plan to fence the goods.

As I have said before, I can do 10 Trade Quests within 10 minutes on TC1. Pick it up, buy the items, fill them with the box, run to the moongate, go to the Fel City and turn it in.

It is REALLY simple. And don't forget the merchant signs which I am sure people will want.


Now if I want to fence it, I have to first check to see which Tavern Slim is in. Then I have to get the trade order, fill it, get on a BOAT, sail to where Slim is, and hope that no one turns a trade quest in before me. Which if they do, means Slim is going to bounce again to another location. I then rinse and repeat, or go sailing hoping I go to the right one. Mind you, all that sailing produces ambushes as well, which are FAR harder to run away from, so lets add in the time to fight the mobs.


The "Good" version is far faster, far easier than the "Bad" version. Hence, the rewards are a lot simpler.
 

Jerec KTM

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As I have said before, I can do 10 Trade Quests within 10 minutes on TC1. Pick it up, buy the items, fill them with the box, run to the moongate, go to the Fel City and turn it in.
Did I miss something? You can now use the moongate to go to fel and turn into a trade minister there? I thought from my play you had to turn into a trade minister in trammel and you could not use any form of gates in trammel once you had the box.
 

Promathia

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Did I miss something? You can now use the moongate to go to fel and turn into a trade minister there? I thought from my play you had to turn into a trade minister in trammel and you could not use any form of gates in trammel once you had the box.
You can use the public moongate only to Fel cities, where you can trade it in just fine. It was that way since TC got published. You dont even have to start it in Trammel
 

FrejaSP

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You can use the public moongate only to Fel cities, where you can trade it in just fine. It was that way since TC got published. You dont even have to start it in Trammel
Now I'm confuse, I thought, only Trammel had the Governor/City system. It sounds like this are a bug or it's one more carrot to get more players to visit Felucca. It may still be a risk, as they may end up in a Felucca town with a VsV fight going on and no guards to protect them.

Now the question is, how many Trammel players are willing to take the risk in Felucca?
 

Riyana

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Doing the whole thing in Fel doesn't make sense either... it's putting money in the city stones, and those are only in Trammel. If its all doable in Fel, then the governors should be over BOTH facets and the Fel side should have city stones (so that Fel citizens can get the buffs, as they've been wanting since day one).

The governors system is Trammel only. Doing it in Fel IS a lot faster, but it doesn't make sense in context.
 

Promathia

Social Distancing Since '97
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Doing the whole thing in Fel doesn't make sense either... it's putting money in the city stones, and those are only in Trammel. If its all doable in Fel, then the governors should be over BOTH facets and the Fel side should have city stones (so that Fel citizens can get the buffs, as they've been wanting since day one).

The governors system is Trammel only. Doing it in Fel IS a lot faster, but it doesn't make sense in context.
Who cares? Its game content, not all game content should be tied down by lore.

The trade ministers, if they arent their on production, have been added to Felucca. Everyone, red or blue can take part in the traders quest.
 

FrejaSP

Queen of The Outlaws
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Why not add the whole Governor system to Felucca too?
And even when you can gate to Felucca and do them easy, most moongates are outside town and you have to get to town to turn in the quest. That may not be as easy on Prodo shards as on TC.
 
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