*steals SS's popcorn and sits back*...la
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Problem with Veterans on SP
- Thread starter ApollyonSP
- Start date
- Watchers 12
You guys are confused. This issue isn't about ME. It's about vets and other n00bs.
I careless what vets think of me. Again that runs parallel with the problem mentioned. Vets feel n00bs require *THEIR* approval, to last on the shard.
One important thing I will do for this shard, is to remind n00bs that Vets are a hurdle to overcome, to jump over, and are not necessarily friendly or allies, or helpful, as some vets claim.
After n00bs realize this, I think a lot more of them will stay rather than get run off after a month or two.
I careless what vets think of me. Again that runs parallel with the problem mentioned. Vets feel n00bs require *THEIR* approval, to last on the shard.
One important thing I will do for this shard, is to remind n00bs that Vets are a hurdle to overcome, to jump over, and are not necessarily friendly or allies, or helpful, as some vets claim.
After n00bs realize this, I think a lot more of them will stay rather than get run off after a month or two.
The delusion is strong in this one.
The fact that you guys think *I* have a problem with Vets, leads to your misunderstanding. It's not me who has the problem with vets on the shard. It's the new players who come and go. It's the constant low population of the shard. My problem exists in the low population. I know that I can help increase the population with or WITHOUT the veterans on the shard. But my point here is that some veterans, specifically, are not a boon for the shard, but a bane.
And the ones who claim to "help the most" seem to me to be the ones who actually help the least.
Here is a final example and point that I'll make in the thread.
Instead of giving a new player gear........spend time with the new player. Go on some hunts together. Let the new player kill and loot his or her own gear. THAT IS FUN. That is much more fun than receiving a simple handout or a million gold check. THAT is "helping" the shard. It's actually going out of your way, spending time with new players.
And the ones who claim to "help the most" seem to me to be the ones who actually help the least.
Here is a final example and point that I'll make in the thread.
Instead of giving a new player gear........spend time with the new player. Go on some hunts together. Let the new player kill and loot his or her own gear. THAT IS FUN. That is much more fun than receiving a simple handout or a million gold check. THAT is "helping" the shard. It's actually going out of your way, spending time with new players.
Actually, you made it about you when you made the claim that you've done for the shard than others...la
When did you last go hunt with a newbie?
When did you last do anything to help a newbie?
This thread is sure not helping the population.
A few months ago, sometimes I can only play 4 hours per week.
And you????????????? LOL
That was only after I received multiple personal attacks, and I said that mainly to troll Freja and get under her skin.
I would be able to do a lot more for the shard if I could play more than a few hours per week sometimes
Maybe you should drop this 4 hours per week and your problem is solved
It's a poor excuse.
Why do you see the speck in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye?
Oh you are allow to personal attack me anytime you wish but I can't defend myself?
Now please show, where I did personal attack you?
I'm not going to stoop to your level, nice taunt though.
Face the facts Freja, you're out. Your time is over. Time to step aside and allow new players to have fun on the shard...without your "approval" or permission.
Well i would like to take the time to THANK all VETS and New PLayers alike, I like to Thank Freja and all who play this shard for the FUN that i have everyday. I like to THANK everyone here for making the TIME that i have to play enjoyable
I play at all times day and night and i am in Chat i see players going out of there way to help new players to the shard all the time. The other night there was a player from Germany logg on and ask in German for help to understand some thing, then behold another German speaking player explained things to him. I seen at the new2 minig house that Tina Tink took the time to right the rules for New2 in Japenese(that took time too). I have seen the Shard pull together for Events that took TIME for all players being involved (GIL Auction, Safe Haven and way to many more to mention).Where all had good times REDS and BLUES
ApollyonSP, you yourself in this thread have used the word TIME alot. We all have real lives and Families, Friends, and Bills.
Everyone on this shard is a real person we can only do so much in the time we play. Just because you dont see it in Chat doent mean it is not being done. I have seen more players just step up and help out but never say anything in chat or otherwise its their nature to help thats all.
I been here TWO years , I have had Players help me with getting houses,weapons advice,gold did i know they where Vets, No i didnt as it is with new players they dont know.
I have and always will play for the fun of it, its a game, for all people near and Far .
This Shard is the funnest of all, you dont have to have alot to be happy and play, You dont need a super suit to play or compete you need the TIME to play with the Reds and the blues and if you take it as a game except the loss with pride because you are New to the shard, you will find out REDS and BLUES will tend to explain and even give you better stuff to you, and then you can both have some laughs while you learn
So this is why i Thank the Vets of this Shard,a lot is never said but a lot really goes on.treat players like you want ot be treated.
O yea to the group of Reds that where chasing me, Yelling MINE, MINE <MINE made me spill my beer , got my heart rate up this shard is a Blast just keep in mind its a game, and we all have only so much TIME to play,
So THANKS TO THE VETS AND THE NEW PLAYERS HERE FOR the LAUGHS and FUN
And yet you think people really care what you think of them? I have played on a ton of shards and a ton of versions of UO and I have yet to find a more accomodating shard for newcomers than Siege Perilous. Will you get pk'd...yes. But unless its one of the few ****** bags left on Siege most will rez. The larger guilds are always recruiting new players, helping them train and getting them involved in champ spawns to scroll your characters up.
I'm still confused. Where is this influx of new uo players that will swell the server to capacity coming from?
As far as I know, most of the "vets" you refer to have left for greener pastures long before you even were old enough to agree to the Terms of Service.
None the less, I don't think the term "Veteran" means what you think it means.
Us vets aren't leaving because of the tone in general chat or even here in the forums. Its the state of Siege. Its a prodo server without Trammel or insurance. That's it. There is no other difference and no point to siege as it was originally intended.
Disclosure: I do not speak for the vets who are content with siege in it's current state. They are happy and that's what counts.
But don't delude yourself into thinking that the server will thrive with or without the vets. Its an ancient game with an antiquated subscription system.
Good luck with your crusade though, Apollyn.
While I dislike the ideals held by some of the vets still here. Kelmo, Freja, Pyrite and others have done more for this server than you could ever hope to accomplish.
As far as I know, most of the "vets" you refer to have left for greener pastures long before you even were old enough to agree to the Terms of Service.
None the less, I don't think the term "Veteran" means what you think it means.
Us vets aren't leaving because of the tone in general chat or even here in the forums. Its the state of Siege. Its a prodo server without Trammel or insurance. That's it. There is no other difference and no point to siege as it was originally intended.
Disclosure: I do not speak for the vets who are content with siege in it's current state. They are happy and that's what counts.
But don't delude yourself into thinking that the server will thrive with or without the vets. Its an ancient game with an antiquated subscription system.
Good luck with your crusade though, Apollyn.
While I dislike the ideals held by some of the vets still here. Kelmo, Freja, Pyrite and others have done more for this server than you could ever hope to accomplish.
The original poster must have a 150 fishing scroll because I have never seen so many people take the bait with one cast.
Gibdat Silver, The Borg
Gibdat Silver, The Borg
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Come back to Siege, I miss you
I, a Vet of this shard actually to take the time to help all any new people that I come across either via gen chat or happen stance. I have also taken them on hunts to ice to let my GD eat some of those big ugly frozen guys so that they may loot the items to unravel for imbuing training, gold for them to by things they need and the armor for them to be better equipped to go hunting on there own. I do believe that WE, as a shard DO help people that are new and old. I mean really, I have seen none of what you speak of happening here. Maybe I'm blind or have been on at the wrong time when things like this happen but Siege as a whole is probally the most generous shard there is.
Singularity/Sir Vincent/Event Horizon
Singularity/Sir Vincent/Event Horizon
The main reason many here oppose my opinion is because those who are run off the shard, are not here. Nor would they speak out necessarily.
But yes I have seen it over the past couple years.
Also keep in mind that I played UO when it was first released for a few years, back when everything was Felucca. I experienced the implementation of Trammel, which crippled the game in my opinion.
But yes I have seen it over the past couple years.
Also keep in mind that I played UO when it was first released for a few years, back when everything was Felucca. I experienced the implementation of Trammel, which crippled the game in my opinion.
I bet you 1000 dollars that if you got a response like that it was not from one of OP's derided "vet cadre".
I have disagreed (often vehemently) with Freja on countless things over the years, I would say many more than I agreed with, but I have to say she has done more for the good of this shard that OP ever will, by virtue of an, at its core, very good nature and simple longevity, if nothing else. She's just one of the more prominent vet voices of the current day (cuz the rest left), and gets **** on cause people need a target.
OP's just pissed off that his self aggrandizing monkey shines have yet to lead to us all to anointing his head with oils and declaring him the new king of siege.
Can vets be stodgy? Yeah, and curt, but so can everyone else. But fact is most vets are more than happy to lend a hand for a new player, and some like Freja take a lot of time out of their personal lives to try and make a dedicated effort to making new players feel welcome.
In short, OP aint the problem, vets aint the problems... game is just in the later stages of it's mercifully protracted death throes . It is what it is.
Also if a (supposed) cold shoulder from Freja is enough to make someone leave the shard, then well they will probably leave the first time bobo pks them and acts like a dork about it, or for some other tiny offense soon enough, because really, who cares that much about what she says? I know I don't, and I don't mean that as an offense, I just mean to says shes just another player. Who cares if she doesn't like you, she is just as entitled to her opinion as anyone else, and there's nothing she or anyone else can do to stop someone from playing the shard. I mean if people could be kicked off the shard Diablo would never have happened again and again and again. It's all nonsense.
But I'm sure my opinion is not wanted, as I am probably just another "Toxic Vet" (kinda cool sounding btw), as will be anyone with a dissenting view.
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Without Trammel, UO would be a distant memory, a "Hey, you guys remember that old game?" Trammel and UO:R saved UO.
No, I really appreciate your voice and opinion.
But I caught Freja red-handed the other day, with her "don't cross me or I'll have my friends shun you" attitude. Her hand was stuck in the cookie jar. However my grievance is general and non specific. Many vets claim to, and pat themselves on the back for it, helping new players. Sure many vets do!!! I don't dispute that. I agree. But there are also many vets who believe they're helping, when they're hurting.
That's the difference.
Basically people need to ask themselves, who is wanted on the shard, and how many??? The fact that some prefer a dead shard, over that of a full shard of bad players and bad experiences, is the difference.
I feel as though many vets are fine with things "as is".
Explain please, I had never threatened anyone that way, except maybe you but you deserve it
Could it be this I said in chat yesterday "if someone see Apollyon, please give him a dirtnap from me
", but you are a special case. I also told, "I need to borrow Katts frying pan to smash his head" The answer I got was "I can make you some or I can steal some rusty ones from the underworld"
Um.... someone who doesn't spend all their time whining about how no one seems to recognise how wonderful they are?
And oh, btw, you are free to begin your own version of NEW2
Call it: "NEW3 - come worship my wonderfulness and I will give you armor and stuff."
This thread needs to die already guys. We've had our say, I think a lot of active posters have had a chance to express themselves. At this point comments are becoming redundant. Love you all, but damnit if I read "vet" one more time I might throw my soul stone with veterinary into the abyssal lava river. For reals gang. Let's talk about awesome things. I like cookies and soda and Japanese women and fully tamed pets and horror movies. These are awesome things. Go.
VETTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agree... so I have put both sides in the summary messages below. Anyone else can generate their own.
http://www.pakin.org/complaint/
My complaint about the Vets of Siege
After reading this letter, you will never again be able to trust the Vets of Siege and you will see with crystal clarity the way that one positive outcome of the Law of Unintended Consequences is that if we subject its intimations to the rigorous scrutiny they warrant then it won't be able to dispense outright misinformation and flashlight-under-the-chin ghost stories. I begin with critical semantic clarifications. First, ancient Greek dramatists discerned a peculiar virtue in being tragic. The Vets of Siege would do well to realize that they never discerned any virtue in being whiney.
There's only one true drama queen around here, and the Vets of Siege is the one wearing the crown. It is easy to see faults in others. But it takes perseverance to enable patriots to use their freedoms to save their freedoms. The Vets of Siege speaks like a true defender of the status quo—a status quo, we should not forget, that enables it to create a world sunk in the most abject superstition, fanaticism, and ignorance.
If the past is any indication of the future, the Vets of Siege will once again attempt to promote a directionless hucksterism. The Vets of Siege is always trying to change the way we work. This annoys me because its previous changes have always been for the worse. I'm positive that the Vets of Siege's new changes will be even more unambitious because it proclaims that the purpose of education is not to produce independent thinkers but submissive state subjects. What planet is it from? The planet Mephitic? I have searched numerous sources for answers to that question. No two sources seem to agree on any given point except for one, that the Vets of Siege is the éminence grise behind every plot to substitute rumor and gossip for bona fide evidence. I challenge it to move from its broad derogatory generalizations to specific instances to prove otherwise.
Looking at it another way, the Vets of Siege takes things out of context, twists them around, and then neglects to provide decent referencing so the reader can check up on it. It also ignores all of the evidence that doesn't support (or in many cases directly contradicts) its position. I support the way of willing exchange, of common consent, of self-responsibility, of open opportunity. The Vets of Siege, in contrast, supports smearing people of impeccable character and reputation. This difference in what we each support indicates that it has occasionally been successful at transforming our whole society to suit its own meretricious, infantile interests. Upon such points its natural character always exhibits itself most determinedly as it further strives to place stumbling blocks in front of those of us who seek value and fulfilment in our personal and professional lives.
He who pays the piper calls the tune. With that in mind, I did a little research to find where the Vets of Siege gets its money. It turns out that it comes primarily from stuporous theologasters, frightful preachers of alcoholism, and—you guessed it—tammanyism-oriented Xanthippes. This explains why the Vets of Siege truly believes that it's okay to preach fear and ignorance. I hope you realize that that's just a slaphappy pipe dream from a licentious pipe and that in the real world, I'm not asking whether the Vets of Siege's ideologies are valid or whether they have any application to current topics of theoretical and political importance. I'm asking only the following specific question: Whatever happened to community standards? The key to answering such questions is to realize that for the Vets of Siege, all roads lead to fogyism. But this is something to be filed away for future letters. At present, I wish to focus on only one thing: the fact that the Vets of Siege asserts that the government's policies should be at odds with the will of the people. Most reasonable people, however, recognize such assertions as nothing more than baseless, if wishful, claims unsupported by concrete evidence.
The Vets of Siege has compiled an impressive list of grievances against me. Not only are all of these grievances completely fictitious, but the Vets of Siege has been forcing its thralls to waste taxpayers' money. This is manifestly unacceptable as it victimizes not only the Vets of Siege's thralls (as hateful as they may be) but all of us. The Vets of Siege has been trying for quite some time to convince us that it has mystical powers of divination and prophecy. I, speaking as someone who is not a rancorous sad sack, suggest it take this rotting ordure and dump it where it and its fellow niddering scofflaws congregate. At least then we could mention a bit about pretentious the Vets of Siege clones such as the Vets of Siege without having to worry that the Vets of Siege will install a puppet government that pledges allegiance to its nerdy, irritating imperium. The last time I told the Vets of Siege's operatives that I want to throw off the Vets of Siege's yoke of vandalism they declared in response, “But everyone who scrambles aboard the the Vets of Siege bandwagon is guaranteed a smooth ride.” Of course, they didn't use exactly those words, but that's exactly what they meant.
The Vets of Siege claims to have donated a lot of money to charity over the past few years. I suspect that the nullibicity of those donations would become apparent if one were to audit the Vets of Siege's books—unless, of course, “charity” includes the Vets of Siege-run organizations that supply the chains that bind the individual to notions of self-loathing and unworthiness. In that case, I'd say that the Vets of Siege wants us to believe that its unruly schemes will make you rich beyond your wildest dreams. A shockingly high number of intelligent people buy into that deception, unfortunately. I say we need to inform such people that if we don't confront and reject all manifestations of pessimism, our children will curse us in our graves. Speaking of our children, we need to teach them diligently that if we let the Vets of Siege mute the voice of anyone who dares to speak out against it, then greed, corruption, and Lysenkoism will characterize the government. Oppressive measures will be directed against citizens. And lies and deceit will be the stock-in-trade of the media and educational institutions.
When a mistake is made, the smart thing to do is to admit it and reverse course. That takes real courage. The way that the Vets of Siege stubbornly refuses to own up to its mistakes serves only to convince me that it strikes me as amusing that it complains about people who do nothing but complain. Well, news flash! The Vets of Siege does nothing but complain. I have absolutely no idea why the Vets of Siege makes such a big fuss over ethnocentrism. There are far more pressing issues that present themselves and that should be discussed, debated, and solved—issues such as war, famine, poverty, and homelessness. There is also the lesser issue that the Vets of Siege believes that trees cause more pollution than automobiles do and that, therefore, the government (and perhaps it itself) should have sweeping powers to arrest and hold people indefinitely on flimsy grounds. This bizarre pattern of thinking leads to strange conclusions. For example, it convinces spiteful opportunists (as distinct from the parasitic beatniks who prefer to chirrup while hopping from cloud to cloud in Nephelococcygia) that our only chance of saving the planet is to accept unending regulations and straightjacket “reforms” from the Vets of Siege's trucklers. In reality, contrariwise, an insidious form of philistinism has taken root in our society. This form of philistinism is distinguished by its complete denial of the fact that it's considerations of this sort that make it worth our while to learn about the splenetic things the Vets of Siege is up to. The best example of this, culled from many, would have to be the time the Vets of Siege tried to transform our society into a self-pitying war machine.
The Vets of Siege's list of sins is long and each one deserves more space than I have here. Therefore, rather than describe each one individually, I'll summarize by stating that I, speaking as someone who is not a vapid rube, insist that there are in fact many people who possess the intelligence, wisdom, talent, and ability to raise issues, as opposed to guns or knives. My goal is to locate those people and encourage them to help me look at our situation realistically and from a viewpoint that takes in the whole picture. I once tried to explain to the Vets of Siege that its diatribes will cripple its critics politically, economically, socially, morally, and psychologically. Rather than feel ashamed of itself, the Vets of Siege got angry at me. What this says is that before the Vets of Siege once again claims that its nostrums surpass most intellectual discourse in terms of the cogency of what they promote and the morality of their implications, it should do some real research rather than simply play a game of bias reinforcement with its minions. The implication is that the Vets of Siege has been telling people that things have never been better. This story has been uncritically swallowed and regurgitated by many half-informed, selfish vandals who find pleasure in believing it. No, I can't explain it either. However, I can say that if the Vets of Siege thinks that it can make me fall prey to its rhetoric and obfuscation then it's barking up the wrong tree.
Have you ever stopped to consider the enormous havoc and ruin that has been wrought in this world by the Vets of Siege and its famuli? I have. That's why I say that it is offended by the truth. But let's not lose sight of the larger, more important issue here: its prurient outbursts. Trumpeted so many times, the Vets of Siege's theories have begun to feed on themselves, to generate their own publicity, to cow the Vets of Siege's castigators not by argument but by sheer repetition, and to break down the industrial-technological system. In short, I feel we must commit to practices that build community and eliminate behaviors that work against what we are dedicated to building. I hope other members of the community feel the same.
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My complaint about People that complain about the Vets of Siege
Cleverly hidden within this letter, for added incentive to read onward, is one lie. Not a lie of statistical or grammatical error but a ludicrous falsehood at once so absurd as to strike the reader as an insult to human intelligence and yet so slovenly as to convince the reader that People that complain about the Vets of Siege has no honor and no concept whatsoever of a fair fight. To get immediately to the point, a war of ideas is currently raging. On one side are quixotic, truculent scum like People that complain about the Vets of Siege who fired the first shot by changing this country's moral infrastructure. On the other side are people like you and me who are encouraging opportunity, responsibility, and community. If this war teaches us anything, it's that it doesn't do us much good to become angry and wave our arms and shout about the evils of People that complain about the Vets of Siege's effusions in general terms. If we want other people to agree with us and join forces with us, then we must hold People that complain about the Vets of Siege responsible for the hatred it so furtively expresses.
While People that complain about the Vets of Siege's resentment of life's myriad insults and disappointments is perhaps what spurs on its yawping behavior, People that complain about the Vets of Siege fervently believes that its blessing is the equivalent of a papal imprimatur. This shows that it is not merely mistaken about one little fact among millions of facts but that a central point of People that complain about the Vets of Siege's belief systems is the notion that the most hypocritical ***ins you'll ever see are more deserving of honor than our nation's war heroes. Perhaps it should take some new data into account and revisit that notion. I think it'd find that it may place stumbling blocks in front of those of us who seek value and fulfilment in our personal and professional lives right after it reads this letter. Let it. By the next full moon, I will find the inner strength to build a world overflowing with compassion and tolerance.
For those of us who make our living trying to study the impact on society of People that complain about the Vets of Siege's greed, stupidity, hubris, and outright corruption, it is important to consider that what it says and what it does are not necessarily the same thing. As an interesting experiment, try to point this out to People that complain about the Vets of Siege. (You might want to don safety equipment first.) I think you'll find that it likes to talk about how it's okay to leave the educational and emotional needs of our children in the misguided hands of nettlesome ogres. The words sound pretty until you read between the lines and see that People that complain about the Vets of Siege is secretly saying that it intends to suppress people's instinct and intellect. While People that complain about the Vets of Siege is unmistakably entitled to ignore good advice from intelligent people, it has tried letting advanced weaponry fall into the hands of intrusive, parvanimous picaroons. It has also tried getting people to vote against their own self-interests. Why does People that complain about the Vets of Siege do such things? Unfortunately, I can't give a complete answer to that question in this limited space. But I can tell you that People that complain about the Vets of Siege's prognoses are complete and total offal. That's too big of a subject to get into here so let me instead discuss how I will never give up. I will never stop trying. And I will use every avenue possible to change the minds of those who restructure the social, political, and economic relationships that exist throughout our entire society.
Even People that complain about the Vets of Siege's gofers are afraid that People that complain about the Vets of Siege will terrorize the public when you least expect it. I have seen their fear manifested over and over again, and it is further evidence that seeing People that complain about the Vets of Siege succeed at imposing a narrow theological agenda on secular society has left me with a number of unanswered questions—questions such as “Does it believe, deep in the adytum of its own mind, that effete cardsharps have dramatically lower incidences of cancer, heart attacks, heart disease, and many other illnesses than the rest of us?” In its annual report on lawless incidents, the government concluded that People that complain about the Vets of Siege's ability to escape punishment for presenting a false image to the world by hiding unpleasant but vitally important realities about its opinions unquestionably tells us one thing. It tells us that our passage to Perdition has been booked. I believe it also tells us that in a tacit concession of defeat, People that complain about the Vets of Siege is now openly calling for the abridgment of various freedoms to accomplish coercively what its coprophagous prevarications have failed at. Take, as an example, the way that People that complain about the Vets of Siege wants to supply the chains that bind the individual to notions of self-loathing and unworthiness. Well, if we effect concrete change in the functioning of our laws and institutions then the sea of sectarianism, on which it so heavily relies, will begin to dry up.
People that complain about the Vets of Siege has never been a big fan of freedom of speech. It supports pogroms on speech, thought, academic license, scientific perspective, journalistic integrity, and any other form of expression that gives people the freedom to state that lackadaisical drug lords are like putty in People that complain about the Vets of Siege's hands. It effortlessly molds them into loyal compatriots in fetishism who don't think twice about degrading, dividing, and destroying our nation. I can repeat with undiminished conviction something I said eons ago: Ultraism is dangerous. People that complain about the Vets of Siege's peccable version of it is doubly so.
The next time someone says that People that complain about the Vets of Siege acts in the public interest, look that person right in the eye and reply, “People that complain about the Vets of Siege has mastered the dark arts of diversion and deception.” Whenever People that complain about the Vets of Siege wants to convince someone that it defends the real needs of the working class, it turns instinctively to long words and exhausted idioms, like a cuttlefish spurting out ink. These words and idioms are intended to distract the listener from noticing that People that complain about the Vets of Siege's two-faced cajoleries have been known to enslave us, suppress our freedom, regiment our lives, confiscate our property, and dictate our values. As much as I wish this were the end of the horror story that is People that complain about the Vets of Siege's cajoleries, it is in fact just the beginning. You see, I am aware that many people may object to the severity of my language. But is there no cause for severity? Naturally, I believe that there is because I would be grateful if People that complain about the Vets of Siege would take a little time from its rigorous schedule to empower the oppressed to control their own lives. Of course, pigs will grow wings and fly before that ever happens.
People that complain about the Vets of Siege doesn't want equal time. People that complain about the Vets of Siege doesn't want pluralism. People that complain about the Vets of Siege just wants to slander those who are most systematically undervalued, underpaid, underemployed, underfinanced, underinsured, underrated, and otherwise underserved and undermined as undeserving and underclass.
Even with the increasing number of pesky Huns, People that complain about the Vets of Siege wants to prevent us from restoring the world back to its original balance. If it manages to do that, it'll have plenty of time to focus on its core mission: taking rights away from individuals on the basis of prejudice, myth, irrational belief, inaccurate information, and outright falsehood. I oppose, deplore, and disavow discrimination, extremism, and hatred of every kind. It's that simple. Next time, People that complain about the Vets of Siege, you may want to check your facts correctly. People that complain about the Vets of Siege has been trying hard to separate us off into various, antagonistic camps. I avouch we should oppose that effort by freeing people from the spell of yahooism that it has cast over them. We must punish People that complain about the Vets of Siege for its negligent commentaries. This is a terrible and awesome responsibility—a crushing responsibility. However, if we stick together we can can show the world that I believe in “live and let live”. People that complain about the Vets of Siege, in contrast, demands not only tolerance and acceptance of its contrivances but endorsement of them. It's because of such unstable demands that I feel that it professes that its conjectures are Right with a capital R. Well, I beg to differ.
Think about it. To put it another way, I've repeatedly pointed out to People that complain about the Vets of Siege that the passage of time will make it clear to even the more slow among us that its ramblings are filled with a number of very clear-cut and blatant lies—lies of both omission and commission. That apparently didn't register with it, though. Oh, well; I guess whatever your age, you now have only one choice. That choice is between a democratic, peace-loving regime that, you hope, may suggest the kind of politics and policies that are needed to restore good sense to this important debate and, as the alternative, the iconoclastic and meddlesome dirigisme currently being forced upon us by People that complain about the Vets of Siege. Choose carefully because People that complain about the Vets of Siege avows that everyone and everything discriminates against it—including the writing on the bathroom stalls. This is a fixed and false (i.e., delusional) belief that will lead to its imposing tremendous hardships on tens of thousands of decent, hard-working individuals before the year is over. I don't know if we can cure People that complain about the Vets of Siege of this bestial belief, but I do know that it avouches that criminals are merely social rebels. In the long run, however, it's only fooling itself. People that complain about the Vets of Siege would be better off if it just admitted to itself that a surprisingly large number of self-satisfied demoniacs consider it to be their savior. This overwhelmingly positive view of People that complain about the Vets of Siege is obviously not shared by those who have been victims of People that complain about the Vets of Siege's revenge fantasies or by those who believe that if People that complain about the Vets of Siege can one day subject its foes to all types of terrifying autos-da-fé then the long descent into night is sure to follow.
People that complain about the Vets of Siege is a model of wanton sleaze, a perfect picture of ingratitude, a paradigm of scapegoatism. As such, People that complain about the Vets of Siege thinks it's good that its ploys censor by caricature and preempt discussion by stereotype. It is difficult to know how to respond to such monumentally misplaced values, but let's try this: Its attendants have tried repeatedly to assure me that it will eventually tire of its plan to detach people from their morally established systems of belief and will then step aside and let us address the continued social injustice shown by bitter lowlifes. When that will happen is unclear—probably sometime between “don't hold your breath” and “beware of flying pigs”. Our goal must now be to shelter initially unpopular truths from suppression, enabling them to ultimately win out through competition in the marketplace of ideas. If you believe that that's a worthwhile goal, then I can obviously use your help. Let me hear from you.
Do you mean Trammel as it is on other shards or Trammel for an extra land mass?
Well that's why I am curious what part of a Trammel, Siege would need. I think giving Siege the safety that Trammel gives other shards would be a huge mistake.
*hands her her most prized frying pan* Don't break it and make sure to return itExplain please, I had never threatened anyone that way, except maybe you but you deserve it
Could it be this I said in chat yesterday "if someone see Apollyon, please give him a dirtnap from me
Aran is doing what aran does...trolling. I used to spend a lot of time on Mugen, it was weird having a Trammel facet with Fel ruleset...la
*sigh* Well that didn't go exactly as hoped.....
Victim of Siege
Grand Poobah
Professional
Governor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Trammel Trammel. The Real Deal Trammel. It'd breathe some life into Siege.
#NotAllRicks are trolls, Rico.
If you added Trammel to Siege, then what would make Siege special?
Victim of Siege
Grand Poobah
Professional
Governor
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
The cookies
"Lacks Trammel" is about all it has now. Wow, missing a feature, some special
Honestly I think siege is just not for most people, and thats ok. I really thing the idea that any one player or group of players can lock someone out of the shard is baseless, and I can't speak to your issues with her, but I know first hand that many newblars were thankful for new2 and Frejas help. Then many left cause people leave, no specific reason. With the low general pop we just get less peeps.
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Freja, always have
Oh no, not the memories of a great and ground breaking gaming experience! Thank goodness we got the watered down bastardization to loom on as a pale shadow, years and years past it's time.
UO was ground breaking because it was the first of these types of graphical MMOs, not because it had non-consensual PvP, it would have been equally successful if it had Trammel right from the start.
I seem to remember that Trammel was introduced because of the success of Everquest which came out shortly after, which offered the choice of whether you wanted unrestricted PvP or not, players flocked to it from UO and this was identified as one of the primary reasons.
Like it or not, the majority do not like to be killed by other players and lose all their stuff, they don't find that fun, there is a minority(of which I am one), who like a bit of added danger to make a game more interesting, but for most, the social aspects and fighting AI monsters are enough.
I seem to remember that Trammel was introduced because of the success of Everquest which came out shortly after, which offered the choice of whether you wanted unrestricted PvP or not, players flocked to it from UO and this was identified as one of the primary reasons.
Like it or not, the majority do not like to be killed by other players and lose all their stuff, they don't find that fun, there is a minority(of which I am one), who like a bit of added danger to make a game more interesting, but for most, the social aspects and fighting AI monsters are enough.
Yes, alot players loved but PvP minded and non PvP minded had never and will never be able to get along on same shards.
We got Siege Perilous before we got Trammel but the non PvP minded successed make the devs changes it to a shard most would not play on, not because of PvP but because of 1 char slot, slow skill gain, no recall, etc.
When Siege was up first time before the wipe, most of this rules was not a part of the ruleset and so many players start and I believed we would had seen more Siege Shards. Designer Dragon called them Dark Shards and Happy Shards and said, it would be much easier to make a Dark Shard than a Happy Shard.
In my opinion, they should had let the old shards stay dark without the add of stat loss and made new Trammel only shards with PvP only allowed in guild war and Faction, think there was around 8 shards at that time.
Item Insurance should never had been added on any of them, nor should the trammel facet.
That's all fine, you have never started to attack me personal to make me agree with you. Everyone have right to their opinion
We all have our ideas for what is best for the shard we love.
Going back to what the OP originally stated as concerns, I admit I've not read this thread completely but I haven't seen one post from a player new to Siege state they've had problems with veterans, only the opposite. I can only speak for myself but I've been met with thoughtfulness and kindness. Even those Vets who don't dry loot who dry looted me are pretty neat people.
In my book one grumpy player does not reflect the whole shard.
*yawn*
In my book one grumpy player does not reflect the whole shard.
*yawn*
Yet a lot of new players leave, and so the only voices remaining are those who obviously support the status quo.
Who speaks for the dead and gone??? Nobody, and one of the posters above is wrong. There ARE reasons for their departure, and low pop of Siege, if you truly desire to learn them.
Who speaks for the dead and gone??? Nobody, and one of the posters above is wrong. There ARE reasons for their departure, and low pop of Siege, if you truly desire to learn them.
They should matter, IF they can improve the shard. I believe they can.
Just because people are vets, doesn't mean they're automatically assets to the shard.
And again I'll take this moment to say that many vets, perhaps even the majority, 51%, are helpful and positive. But the other 49%......don't be one of them
Or else what?...la