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Poisoning changes

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Did some testing with 100 poisoning skill on my mage. He never DP'd from a distance, which is how it should be from what I understand.

From next to a person out of 10 tries 3 times he cured with a pot on the first try, 4 times it took 2 pots, and 3 times it took 3 pots.

I had a dexer do the same to me, again me also having 100 poisoning.
1 time it took 1 pot to cure, 4 times it took 5 pots, and 5 times it took 6 pots to cure.

Not sure what this all really means but i still think it needs to be lessened.

Or,from what i understand they don't but, mages should have the same exact amount of chance to dp as a dexer who hits with his poisoned weapon.
 

Logrus

UO Legend
VIP
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Remember to factor infectious strike bonus.

If you are using DP on the weapon with GM poisoning, you are more than likely hitting with lethal poison.

A mage only has a % chance at casting lethal.
 

Vexxed

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Did some testing also. I used a GM tinker poison trapped box = lethal poison. Message was "you are in extreme pain....etc"
50 times poisoned / 0% enhance potions / human (6% Ep from 20 alchemy)
Cured w/ greater cure 1st attempt 44 times, remaining 6 poisons took 2 G cures ea. This isn't much of a change unless T-box tinker poison isn't working right.
 
W

Wojoe

Guest
Remember to factor infectious strike bonus.

If you are using DP on the weapon with GM poisoning, you are more than likely hitting with lethal poison.

A mage only has a % chance at casting lethal.
People already spam this special move using very fast weapons like a kryss and hit with lethal every time..I know from experience that its way to hard to cure it using arch cure. They swing to fast and you get interrupted 99% of the time regardless of your DCI and/or Wrestle. They also put HLD on the same weapon and it just gets worse. This forces mages to run or carry cure pots and now you’re going to weaken cure pots. This will make it even worse verse these types. You should add a timer between uses of infectious strike or give it the same % mages get to cast lethal poison.

Thanks

thanks
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
People already spam this special move using very fast weapons like a kryss and hit with lethal every time..I know from experience that its way to hard to cure it using arch cure. They swing to fast and you get interrupted 99% of the time regardless of your DCI and/or Wrestle. They also put HLD on the same weapon and it just gets worse. This forces mages to run or carry cure pots and now you’re going to weaken cure pots. This will make it even worse verse these types. You should add a timer between uses of infectious strike or give it the same % mages get to cast lethal poison.

Thanks

thanks
This has exactly been my experience on test center. but it seems to be falling on deaf ears, at least on the player side of things.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I watched Cetric GL (on his mage) fight on TC last night one of the fencing/poisoners that you guys are so concerned about. Cetric was able to survive, and slip in arch cures. He had the fencer redlined at least 5 times before the dexxer quickly blipped off screen every time.

I know a lot of mages enjoy 0% EP greater cure pots, healing stones, or level 2 cure spell to take care of all their worries, but I mean come on...

Mages just got:

Apple timer increased to 30 seconds.
SDI for pure 30%.

There's more, but those 2 things alone are pretty significant. If you're really having too difficult a time then just use your wrestle disarm special, go pro, summon your daemon, call it a day. It's not really that difficult.
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I watched Cetric GL (on his mage) fight on TC last night one of the fencing/poisoners that you guys are so concerned about. Cetric was able to survive, and slip in arch cures. He had the fencer redlined at least 5 times before the dexxer quickly blipped off screen every time.

I know a lot of mages enjoy 0% EP greater cure pots, healing stones, or level 2 cure spell to take care of all their worries, but I mean come on...

Mages just got:

Apple timer increased to 30 seconds.
SDI for pure 30%.

There's more, but those 2 things alone are pretty significant. If you're really having too difficult a time then just use your wrestle disarm special, go pro, summon your daemon, call it a day. It's not really that difficult.
Opinion heard.

Question: Did you test out a mage on TC1? Did you also try to fight a dp dexer?

You see the changes almost force a mage to have EP on his jewels, where a dexer has the choice to have whatever he or she wants on theirs to suit their temp and armor. the mage on the other hand has to build the suit around those jewels. to me this is just unfair.
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
Question: Did you test Arch Cure on TC1?
He is saying it takes to long to cast and thus gets interrupted, or something like that. "to hard to cast" I believe was his wording....not sure how that is any different from prodo now but w/e. (I mean the casting ability not it being to hard.)
 

Vexxed

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Hmm.. did some quick testing on TC... It appears that currently

Lethal Takes 3 Greater Cures on Average to cure
Deadly Takes 2 Greater Cures on Average to cure

this is with 0% Enhance potions.... Does anyone know the numbers with 40-50% EP ?
 
W

Wojoe

Guest
Hmm.. did some quick testing on TC... It appears that currently

Lethal Takes 3 Greater Cures on Average to cure
Deadly Takes 2 Greater Cures on Average to cure

this is with 0% Enhance potions.... Does anyone know the numbers with 40-50% EP ?
And as soon as you cure it he will hit you with infectious strike again and then again. It's going to be a issue. Maybe they should slow down the swing speed of weapons that have infectious strike.

Dont even bother to test deadly...the special lets them hit with lethal every time.
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Hmm.. did some quick testing on TC... It appears that currently

Lethal Takes 3 Greater Cures on Average to cure
Deadly Takes 2 Greater Cures on Average to cure

this is with 0% Enhance potions.... Does anyone know the numbers with 40-50% EP ?
All I have to say is WOW, were you ever lucky because it was taking me more than that. Great roll of the dice for you :thumbsup:

Were there times in your testing that it took 6 Greater Cures to cure, like happens to me all the time?

Also out of curiosity did you try parasitic poison?
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
And as soon as you cure it he will hit you with infectious strike again and then again. It's going to be a issue. Maybe they should slow down the swing speed of weapons that have infectious strike.

Dont even bother to test deadly...the special lets them hit with lethal every time.
Exactly :thumbsup:
 

Vexxed

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@ o2bavr6...

All I have to say is WOW, were you ever lucky because it was taking me more than that. Great roll of the dice for you
Yea... I think the max number of G Cures required was 7 & that happened twice in about 35 poison attempts or so. I did not check Darkglow or Parasytic poison but it's my understand that they act just like Deadly poison in reguards to "poison level", it's just that they have additional effects.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Opinion heard.

Question: Did you test out a mage on TC1? Did you also try to fight a dp dexer?

You see the changes almost force a mage to have EP on his jewels, where a dexer has the choice to have whatever he or she wants on theirs to suit their temp and armor. the mage on the other hand has to build the suit around those jewels. to me this is just unfair.
Proper pvp mage suits always ran ep 40-50% (a 50 ecru or a 25 ring + 15 treatise) before mysticism came along. Then everyone realized a crystalline ring was more than sufficient since healing stone was an all in one heal/cure and freed up weaker rings/talismans.

I'm converting my crystalline builds back to ep rings, and trust me I'd rather not, but it is what it is. Poisoning currently is a joke, and needed a buff to it, for mages & dexxers.
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Proper pvp mage suits always ran ep 40-50% (a 50 ecru or a 25 ring + 15 treatise) before mysticism came along. Then everyone realized a crystalline ring was more than sufficient since healing stone was an all in one heal/cure and freed up weaker rings/talismans.

I'm converting my crystalline builds back to ep rings, and trust me I'd rather not, but it is what it is. Poisoning currently is a joke, and needed a buff to it, for mages & dexxers.
Well "proper" is a matter of opinion. Dexers are not handcuffed to wearing certain items to be able to defend from any template, why should a mage be?

Also I have the coral bracelet and the ring of soulbinder I don't particularly want to give up either one for EP. And I shouldn't have to to compete, again just like dexers or any other template dont have to.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I watched Cetric GL (on his mage) fight on TC last night one of the fencing/poisoners that you guys are so concerned about. Cetric was able to survive, and slip in arch cures. He had the fencer redlined at least 5 times before the dexxer quickly blipped off screen every time.

I know a lot of mages enjoy 0% EP greater cure pots, healing stones, or level 2 cure spell to take care of all their worries, but I mean come on...

Mages just got:

Apple timer increased to 30 seconds.
SDI for pure 30%.

There's more, but those 2 things alone are pretty significant. If you're really having too difficult a time then just use your wrestle disarm special, go pro, summon your daemon, call it a day. It's not really that difficult.
Did dexers not get the increased apple timer? And only PURE mages got the increase in SDI not all mages.
 

PaithanTheElf

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think DP on weapons def needs to cost more mana. With GM poisoning and 40% lmc, you could DP over and over and over again. It should be in line with other specials. I think that would allivate a lot of the issues, especially special spamming.
 

Saint of Killers

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I think DP on weapons def needs to cost more mana. With GM poisoning and 40% lmc, you could DP over and over and over again. It should be in line with other specials. I think that would allivate a lot of the issues, especially special spamming.
...and I think blood oath needs to be increased from 13 mana to say oh...like 30 mana.

Actually, for poisoning, how about we raise the lowly mana cost from 9 (before lmc kicks in) for mages to 15 or 15+! :)
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I personally like the changes
After Extensive testing on the poison changes, I can say that it has ruined pvp.

And when I say extensive I mean testing it in pvp every day since the change. fighting against all types of templates and even using it myself.

To those of you who havent been on test center but still have an opinion on this, all i can say is you will see... that is unless they add more changes to it.

Funny how a bit of crying got sdi reduced to 30 but nothing has changed with poisoning.

Example:
DPed cleaver spamming deadly poison over and over again.
Necro mages with poison skill using evil omen and then poison spell. in the past the spell would hit with 100% success, now it does and its deadly poison.

Mages with poison skill, yes they can dp occasionally, but no where near the level of the templates above. And at least from what i've seen their poison is cured with pots much easier.

Again today it took me 16 greater cures to cure 2 hits of DP. this is happening all the time and not randomly.

Is it asking too much for the Devs to actually come to TC and pvp? And when they do come, dont play a dexer play a mage and see!!
 
C

Cloak&Dagger

Guest
To those of you who havent been on test center but still have an opinion on this, all i can say is you will see... that is unless they add more changes to it
Stop making assumptions, half the people who responded to you have been on TC.

Is it asking too much for the Devs to actually come to TC and pvp? And when they do come, dont play a dexer play a mage and see!!
Again with your assumptions....*sighs*
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Cloak‡1986176 said:
Stop making assumptions, half the people who responded to you have been on TC.
I said "to those of you who haven't"

Cloak‡1986176 said:
Again with your assumptions....*sighs*
I'm on TC just about every day and evening. After a while you get to know most of the pvp population.

Also it is my experience that the players are the ones who learn the gimpest templates when changes are made to the game, and they are the ones who exploit them to their fullest. This has not changed since I first started playing this game in 1997. Think about every pvp change; players figure out the new over powered template of the day and flock to it until the devs eventually try to balance it. at which point it starts all over.. lather rinse repeat.

To truly understand the effects of game changes one has to spend a significant amount of time testing it. This is something that in a big way EA lets the player population do for them.

In this economy I just don't see the Devs getting permission, or for that matter having the extra time to spend on TC1. Heck we are lucky to even see the latest version of UO in a store.

So yes this may be an assumption on my part, but something tells me I am correct.

Also it has historically been more important to EA to get the next publish out than to fix pvp imbalances. pvp is just a small portion of the player population of UO and they have usually spent very few resources on it. With this said, I do have to say thank you to EA for spending the time and money and resources to enhance pvp..

I just think that poisoning needs to be tweaked a bit more.. as mentioned in a post above maybe not being able to spam Infecting would be a good start, or increasing its mana cost if spammed like Armor Ignore. also removing the 100% chance to succeed on poison when you are evil omened.

If nothing is to be changed then why is it fair for a dexer with poisoning skill to have a higher chance to dp than a mage with the same skill, but instead of using a weapon he is casting the spell? For a mage to go from level 3 to level 4 poisoning he has to have 100 in the skill, not even 99.9.
on the other hand a dexer to inflict level 4 only has to have 60 in the skill!!!!!

Mages:
-- < 65.1 = Level 1 poison
-- 65.1 to 85 = Level 2 poison
-- 85.1 to 99.9 = Level 3 poison
-- 100 and higher = Level 4 poisoning

Dexers:
With Poisoning skill 0.0 - 19.9 you can inflict Level 1 (% chance of level 2)
With Poisoning skill 20.0 - 39.9 you can inflict level 2 (% chance of level 3)
With Poisoning skill 40.0 - 59.9 you can inflict level 3 (% chance of level 4)
With Poisoning skill 60.0 - 100.0 you can inflict level 4 (% chance of level 5)
 

Vexxed

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@ o2bavr6

Well... I've tested Poisons & Greater Cure pots on TC1 & got drastically different results than what you just said..

Again today it took me 16 greater cures to cure 2 hits of DP. this is happening all the time and not randomly.
I tested with 0% Enhance potions ... 35 poisons Cured for Deadly & Leathal each.

Lethal took on average 3 Greater Cures to cure

Deadly took on average 2 Greater Cures to cure.

They both had streaks of up to 7 pots to cure, but the averages are above. I still need to TEST this with 50% Enhance potions though. If it works like I'd assume it might then 1-2 pots for Lethal & 1 on average for Deadly is just fine. I still have to check it though. I definately did not get 8 Greater cures for Deadly even 1 time let alone consistantly...
 

Cetric

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
After Extensive testing on the poison changes, I can say that it has ruined pvp.

And when I say extensive I mean testing it in pvp every day since the change. fighting against all types of templates and even using it myself.

To those of you who havent been on test center but still have an opinion on this, all i can say is you will see... that is unless they add more changes to it.

Funny how a bit of crying got sdi reduced to 30 but nothing has changed with poisoning.

Example:
DPed cleaver spamming deadly poison over and over again.
Necro mages with poison skill using evil omen and then poison spell. in the past the spell would hit with 100% success, now it does and its deadly poison.

Mages with poison skill, yes they can dp occasionally, but no where near the level of the templates above. And at least from what i've seen their poison is cured with pots much easier.

Again today it took me 16 greater cures to cure 2 hits of DP. this is happening all the time and not randomly.

Is it asking too much for the Devs to actually come to TC and pvp? And when they do come, dont play a dexer play a mage and see!!
As much as i enjoy using it, i kind of agree. I made a scribe nox mage, and i was tempted to just take poisoning off in favor of doing a necro nox mage because of evil omen, but i haven't done it yet.

On my mages, i've been absolutely decimated most times on test tho between mortal spamming throwers, actually good dp dexers, and a handful of nox necros with blood oath/omen nox. And the 2 dexer types, heck, they miss a few times and you get a combo going.. they just run anyways and start over when they are ready. (the mortal throwers weren't amazing by themselves, but in a group... just devistating)
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As much as i enjoy using it, i kind of agree. I made a scribe nox mage, and i was tempted to just take poisoning off in favor of doing a necro nox mage because of evil omen, but i haven't done it yet.

On my mages, i've been absolutely decimated most times on test tho between mortal spamming throwers, actually good dp dexers, and a handful of nox necros with blood oath/omen nox. And the 2 dexer types, heck, they miss a few times and you get a combo going.. they just run anyways and start over when they are ready. (the mortal throwers weren't amazing by themselves, but in a group... just devistating)
I hear ya, thats what ive been experiencing the whole time.

And I know that if you ask the average person on TC1 with no EP how many greater cures it takes to cure they will all say way more than 1 or 2 on average. from my experience its at least 4 on average if not more.
 
W

Wojoe

Guest
Again im going to ask you to look into the ability to spam infectious strike using weapons treated with deadly poison. The ability to spam this special move with weapons that swing at cap is totaly overpowered combined with the cure potion change. You should consider infectious strike only giving the same % chance of hitting for lethal that mages get to cast it.

You do know the infectious strike special move bumps the level of posion to the next higher level i do hope...and it's already a problem on test.

thanks
 
W

Wojoe

Guest
I have a j.o.b. and life...i play maybe 8 hrs a week now...I know we ran your guild off of gl but maybe you might have a chance and come back after the changes..LOL

Stay on topic!
 
T

TurboTimmy

Guest
As several people have already mentioned:

Poisoning as currently on TC is a little on the rediculous side.


There is a clear an imbalance with how easily a dexxer can LP.

Increased Mana cost, or some type of resistance (such a para blow) for a short amount of time is needed


Evil Omen + poisoning is also way overpowered.


As of now,

the two most popular templates after the publish will be some sort of dexxer that can use infectious strike, and Necro/Mages that squeeze on poisoning and use evil omen to give 100% chance to poison and increase the level of the poison.

Tone it down :rant2:
 

o2bavr6

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
As several people have already mentioned:

Poisoning as currently on TC is a little on the rediculous side.


There is a clear an imbalance with how easily a dexxer can LP.

Increased Mana cost, or some type of resistance (such a para blow) for a short amount of time is needed


Evil Omen + poisoning is also way overpowered.


As of now,

the two most popular templates after the publish will be some sort of dexxer that can use infectious strike, and Necro/Mages that squeeze on poisoning and use evil omen to give 100% chance to poison and increase the level of the poison.

Tone it down :rant2:
Guess it doesn't matter anymore, looks like they just published it to Origin.

And from the publish notes there is nothing that indicates they made any additional adjustments. :(
 

AzSel

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I must say I agree with people who think poison dexers spamming lethal poison is overpowered. BECAUSE greater cures are ridiculously weak against it.
 

Dorinda

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
u dont even play uo

UM... On July 26, 2011, I messaged you on ICQ for HOURS, and called you on the telephone NUMEROUS TIMES (collect of course) trying to get you to log on and synch with me. BUT YOU FAILED TO RESPOND.
 

puni666

Slightly Crazed
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UM... On July 26, 2011, I messaged you on ICQ for HOURS, and called you on the telephone NUMEROUS TIMES (collect of course) trying to get you to log on and synch with me. BUT YOU FAILED TO RESPOND.
You don't talk so that's a lie.
 

The Cheapsuit

Journeyman
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Re: Poisoning

Thanks and I am glad you're enjoying the new SDI. :)

Interesting, about that Animal Form/Cyclone thing... I am not quite sure how it relates to Poisoning at all. Even to strictly Melee/Nox. Such a Throwing/Ninja Template being effective, meaning Melee is too.. Which implies that Melee+Poison is much more so.. I have to say this is faulty. Now, I won't say I PwN in PVP.. And I was never going to say that all Casters are crap on TC1. But maybe you're not prepared. I could be wrong but it seems the counter is easy if that's all that person is doing. Maybe we can discuss this through PMs. It's not related to the Topic..

Changes not being too different from what we have on ProdShards, save for the additional GCs required on average, is part of the problem. Barely any difference, due to GCs having no Timers. So I see no significant amount of any factor, related to Curing through Pots.

I still have to wonder how come TC isn't used more aggressively by the Devs for such things.. Think "Myth Busters". "Do GCs require a Timer? Let's see what would happen!" Simple. Could be used for ALL such issues. :scholar:
I think the logical solution is to not require a pot cooldown but instead disallow chugging while moving perhaps?
 
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