Poisoning changes

[Storm]

Poisoning:
A few tweaks to Poison and Poisoning Skill
Poisoning skill now grants a small measure of resistance to being poisoned.
When poison is cured by any means except potions, the target receives a temporary resistance which is similar to, but less effective than the natural resistance granted by the poisoning skill.

Spells:
Poison (Magery): Players with greater than GM Poisoning and GM Magery will have a 10% chance to inflict lethal poison at distance of less than 3 tiles. Poison strength now reduces with range instead of dropping to 1 at ranges 3 or greater.
Poison Strike (Necromancy) : Necromancers with greater than 60 poisoning skill will have a 3% to 9% chance (Scales with poison skill) to poison their target.

 

[Wojoe]

Hi:

Im wondering if Infectious strike will be looked at...as it is people can just spam it over and over with a kryss or dagger. That combined with max SSI and HLD make's it very hard to cast Arch Cure. If you remove the ability to cure Infectious Strike with potions mage's will not be viable verse it.

Also will DCI & HLD be looked at?


Thanks

 

[PaithanTheElf]

Speaking of resisting poisons... if you cure/arch cure enough poisons (or lethal poisons in a row)- Is there a chance that you can resist the poison off of the weapon?

 

[Jimmy Pop]

Players with greater than GM Poisoning and GM Magery

That sounds like 100 Poisoning is mandatory... or is it a combined 200 points, like it is now? (80 Poisoning + 120 Magery)

 

[Cetric]

Overall i think the poisoning change is pretty on par, the "petal effect" when you have poisoning is kinda neat too.

The one thing i'd be curious about as wojoe mentioned is if infections strike should have a little higher mana cost on weaps.

 

[G.v.P]

What I want to know is what does it mean to have a poison chance with Poison Strike? Is it lesser poison, poison, does the strength scale w/ poisoning skill, does it require 100 necro and 100 poison like a mage needs for the Poison spell? Very interesting change. Not really PvP viable, but adds a whole new dynamic against mobs and at chokes.

 

[Logrus]

For the poison spell, the ability to cast Lesser Poison through Deadly poison is affected by Average skill and the distance to the target.

In order for you to cast Lethal Poison, you must have GM poisoning.

 

[Elric_Soban]

Poison (Magery): Players with greater than GM Poisoning

How do you get 'greater than GM poisoning' ? It's capped at 100, there is no powerscroll for it...

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

How do you get 'greater than GM poisoning' ? It's capped at 100, there is no powerscroll for it...

Logrus made a bit of an English Error, I believe it should read "Players with GM or Magery and Poisoning"

 

[G.v.P]

Logrus made a bit of an English Error, I believe it should read "Players with GM or Magery and Poisoning"

Cloak&Dagger, you should make this reply your signature. ROFL you've had to answer peeps like 80 times now .

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Cloak&Dagger, you should make this reply your signature. ROFL you've had to answer peeps like 80 times now .

Lol. It happens I guess?

 

[Cetric]

Was there anything in this that effects serpents arrow? even with gm poisoning 120 archery and 150 dex this ability sucks, its so random it seems like u move between lesser and greater poisons at random.

 

[Cear Dallben Dragon]

First off, I like the changes to poisoning and curing along with bandages. Hopefully I will see more diverse templates in the world now as far as pvp is concerned.

I however have one question.

How will the conflicting formulas resolve themselves after long term applications of curing poison both with cure potions and be other means.

What I'm getting at is will there be a noticeable fluctuation in resistance in a long term battle scenario when one person is curing poison many many times with and without cure potions.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

First off, I like the changes to poisoning and curing along with bandages. Hopefully I will see more diverse templates in the world now as far as pvp is concerned.

I however have one question.

How will the conflicting formulas resolve themselves after long term applications of curing poison both with cure potions and be other means.

What I'm getting at is will there be a noticeable fluctuation in resistance in a long term battle scenario when one person is curing poison many many times with and without cure potions.

Well with out intense testing as players we wont know, I can say however curing with pots will offer no resistance, and curing by other means offers a smaller than natural resistance for a short time, of course testing this is hard since we do not know what a short time is.

 

[yars]

not to derail or add to the confusion, but
this poisoning change and then apply the focus change, will the SDI affect the dmg from poison as well? seems the 2 will go hand in hand for necros and mages who spend the focus this way?

 

[AzSel]

I would like to see numbers/formula for how good the poison resist is at certain levels, 80 - 100. It would also be awesome if we could get the same kinda resist that unicorn and stoneform forms have. *The poison seems to have no effect* Instead of being poisoned, then resisting it. Because that would make it unique from the orange petal and vampire form way of resisting poison.
And please make people unable to gain any kind of immunity from high level poison's WITHOUT poisoning skill on their template. Poisoning is already freakishly easy to cure, dont make it even easier.

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

A bit too early to start calling for ManaCost+ ?

EDIT : So it offers some resistance to Poisons IF you have the Skill.. And Curing Poisons by any means other than Potions gives similar resistances AS IF YOU DID HAVE the Skill.. And THAT constitutes for a ManaCost+? No way. If anything all these changes do is strengthening Casters' spells related to Poison and Healers.. Thanks for letting me resist someone else's Poisons, MAYBE, by spending 100 Points in a Skill that is extremely weak while giving the same advantages to everyone else- With a way to Cure without Potions(That's 90% of UO). It makes sense punishing Melee Noxxers with extra ManaCost now! Not.. Only if they put CURE POTION TIMERS. Maybe.

Melee Poisoning has gained nothing unique, new or practical from this whole Balance Pass except a chance to resist BEING Poisoned(Since now every Caster will be able to RangeInfect I guess I should be glad). Which everyone can more or less simulate. Not impressive, NOT on par with the other changes.

 

[Cetric]

The "poisoning resistance" or Petal Effect having poisoning skill kind of sucks. Either it should take longer before it comes into play or it should not exist. If anything, maybe just make it so the damage from poison is brought down, not able to be removed.

The cure pot adjustment i'd say is basically perfect, but the fact that i've failed multiple times in a row removing a poison with Arch Cure from a mage isn't really acceptable. I can understand failing the faster casting Cure, but getting an arch cure off will take extra effort and you should be rewarded for using it, rather than burning cure pots.

I didn't seem to have any issue removing poisons with chivalry at higher levels, but that could have been just a fluke.

 

[PJay]

Rather minor changes im not even sure they are worth commenting on.

The big deal with poisoning is that pots are no longer a get out of jail free card this on its own has made poisoning a very viable pvp skill.

 

[AzSel]

Ill get my nox mage out of retirement again, just to test. Sounds very interresting. Hope they make the poison immunity thing like the stoneform and unicorn form so you dont get poisoned at all when you manage to proc a resist. And people without poisoning skill shouldnt get immunity against the highest level poisons at all, even for a few seconds.

 

[Logrus]

The temporary/natural poison resistance effects will grant the target a small chance to shake off poison. This is similar to the poison resistance effect granted by the bard Resilience ability.

This wont prevent the target from being repoisoned, but there's a chance they will get lucky and be cured by the resistance.

The temporary resistance effect scales with the level of poison.

For example.
After curing lethal poison, if you are poisoned by lesser poison you have a high chance to shrug off the poison.

OR

After curing lesser poison, you are poisoned by lethal poison, there is no chance for you to shrug off the lethal poison.


In the case of natural resistance, the chance to shrug off the poison is dependent on the level of the poison and the target's poisoning skill.

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

Meh, should have replied here about Pots. Anyway it can't hurt if it's mentioned again. As long as there is no limit on how many Pots you can use instantly, it might as well take 100 Pots or 1. Decreased Cure Chance? Okay. Keep chugging as you run off. Nothin' doin'.. It's been happening already, now it will happen for 1-2" more.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Re: Poisoning

Meh, should have replied here about Pots. Anyway it can't hurt if it's mentioned again. As long as there is no limit on how many Pots you can use instantly, it might as well take 100 Pots or 1. Decreased Cure Chance? Okay. Keep chugging as you run off. Nothin' doin'.. It's been happening already, now it will happen for 1-2" more.

While I empathize with you, I have to ask, How many cure pots can a player even hold? Assuming the player is going to want to have at the very least gheal pots and possibly refresh (even more so if chivalry changes go through). If it takes 10 pots then it is assumable that it would only take 12 or so poisons before they run out of such a pot? This is all speculating that they carry 100 cures.

I like the idea in the healing post of simply making it so that after x amount of potion y you are immune to the effects of potion y for z amount of time. (Obviously a bit of tweaking to figure out how many pots before you can't take any more and how long till you are able to) Or maybe better yet, after x amount of potion y you start taking damage from it unless you wait for z amount of time? (This way there will be a negative effect toppled with the chance to fail being a bit higher)

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

I assume it would be very easy to find out what the Safe Potion Capacity for PVP is.. TC1 and brew some, start loading up and see when you can't run while Cursed by 120 Mage/Eval GM Scribe and carrying typical consumables like Apples too, if you want to be practical... Or something like that.

Now, consider that as a Poisoner I want to have what you have in terms of Refresh, Cure and Heal PLUS POISON POTS! :S
Now add to all that the plethora of ways to Cure and, from this point on, RESIST Poisoning even without the Skill on one's Character!
Therefore the PRACTICAL applications of Poisoning in COMBAT are extremely limited and now even more so, even if the Devs adjusted Cure Chance with GCPot.

On top of all that do consider that even if it did take 10 GCPots for every Infect, which it won't and never did even at the worst cases in all my PVP experiences.. The other player will simply run off, stock up and return.

Now think about fights involving more than 1 people.. The effort, timing and resources needed to keep someone Poisoned are not quite fair in comparison to the effort required to keep people safe from Poisons.

I must have typed so many Posts on this subject it's really, really wearing on me(I hope that's the correct expression). I could definitely go on or even point you at those text bricks but I think it is, at this point, redundant. I think I had even PMed Logrus with a lengthy one.. I guess if the Devs were interested they could dig them up or ask me to do it for them. Oh well. Pot Toxicity, CoolDown, Diminishing Returns... Either at this point would help.

 

[Cloak&Dagger]

Re: Poisoning

I assume it would be very easy to find out what the Safe Potion Capacity for PVP is.. TC1 and brew some, start loading up and see when you can't run while Cursed by 120 Mage/Eval GM Scribe and carrying typical consumables like Apples too, if you want to be practical... Or something like that.

On top of all that do consider that even if it did take 10 GCPots for every Infect, which it won't and never did even at the worst cases in all my PVP experiences.. The other player will simply run off, stock up and return.

Now think about fights involving more than 1 people.. The effort, timing and resources needed to keep someone Poisoned are not quite fair in comparison to the effort required to keep people safe from Poisons.

I must have typed so many Posts on this subject it's really, really wearing on me(I hope that's the correct expression). I could definitely go on or even point you at those text bricks but I think it is, at this point, redundant. I think I had even PMed Logrus with a lengthy one.. I guess if the Devs were interested they could dig them up or ask me to do it for them. Oh well. Pot Toxicity, CoolDown, Diminishing Returns... Either at this point would help.

I understand everything you are saying, but have you tested it on TC1? I mean I have not and will not say I have but if you have not then your saying "it never has" really is not enough to say it never will. But I agree with you, I gave various forms of how they could handle a "Cool Down" Or something that prohibits the constant spamming.

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

While I have not TESTED it, I have simply experienced this while PVPing. It never took me so many Pots to Cure LP/DP, let alone anything weaker and when I did get an answer, it was always that the other person didn't really have to use any exaggerated number of Potions against my LP Infect attempts... Which was what I speculated either way.

I have more than a slight suspicion that this will be the case even after the tweak, at the very least on average. What's more... Even when I had presented solid facts which I had thoroughly examined about Pots/Infect since I spent years PVPing on Melee/Nox, it made no difference. It seems the majority of players and indeed the Devs as well simply do not agree a CoolDown is needed. Why, completely eludes me. Maybe because other ways of Infecting are more practical and increasing Poisons' effectiveness would make those OPed. See "Magery" and now even more other Skills (Necro?).. Seriously, you shouldn't even be able to cast Poison without the Skill and this should be solved, then CoolDowns or other measures could be taken.

And.. Surely in SOME exceptional occassions my Infect persisted so to speak. But those occassions were simply too few in comparison and far in between.

EDIT : You might want to check THIS : http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/195448-poisoning-potion-timers.html Logrus, among others, did share with us his opinions on Poisoning there. It seems we all agreed to not agree in the end..
I should warn you it's full of text bricks, though I did try to present my arguements as best as I could in terms of form..

 

[icm420]

I have been doing lethal poison with my mage for about a year now and I also have had the ability to do 50SDI in pvp. I don't see the big deal about the changes to poisoning in regards to allowing you to lethal. For 20 skill points into poisoning I can have a *chance* to do lethal, or I can guarentee it with evil omen. I like the guarentee and the time saved not working poisoning better. I realize my necro nox scribe mage wouldn't get the 40 sdi bonus that a nox scribe would.. but still I like the way I have my guy set up. What would one do with 60 points anyway?.. er well 40 points since 20 of it is now going into poisoning. Also, will there be any changes to rock/stone form? Right now no matter what I do, I have NEVER EVER EVER been able to land a poison on a guy in rock form. Not with a weapon, not with mage poison. So really this is a bit of a waste to fix poisoning, but still allow rock form to be completely immue to poison imo.

52 damage is the max I have ever done on a flamestrike in pvp, against a decently suited toon. What is the max the 40 sdi increases do? Once again I think Evil Omen wins..I know that magic arrows, fireballs, etc would do more damage overall, and I would save a lot of mana, but the issues with pvp are with mysticism, not as much with SDI. SDI will help, but mysticism needs to be fixed in order to get things working better. Cleansing winds, purge magic, and rock form are the biggest issues with mysticism. Spell plauge is fine for the most part, it's not the greatest thing, but I can deal with it. Cleansing winds needs to cost more mana I think, and/or have a lower chance of curing and removing curse. This spell had made playing a mage too easy, and when a group of them are together it's god-mode. Rock form needs the immunities fixed...at least give it a better chance right now it is like 1% to get debuff/poison threw. Purge magic makes it so that only mysticism can beat mysticism...I don't know how to fix this.. to me scribe should have given this spell, not mysticism. Everyone says oh use a ward removal tali, which is not 100% and can only be used once. Also why would I bother going threw all that trouble just to play a template that is overall weaker?

I like what is going on, you guys are looking at skills and trying to fix them and that is awesome! I hope pure mages, necros and some new hybrids start showing up again, but I am a afraid mysticism will still rule. The chiv changes have no effect on pvp, I have 6 reds on my main shard, and another 5 scattered around. I never used chiv and it isn't something pvper/pks use often because it's karma based and 90% of the spells serve no purpose to a dread lord...sooo don't try to say thats a pvp change.. because it's not .

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

"I have been doing LP [..] 40 points since 20 of it is now going into Poisoning. "
Exactly. This change benefits Casters(Very slightly), is a problem for Noxxers(Melee) since everyone will have increased Resist even with no Poisoning and that's why I'm saying it's strange. And still no CoolDowns.

"I have NEVER EVER EVER been able to land a poison on a guy in Rock Form."
I believe that's the plan with Rock Form. Nothing to be changed.

"What is the max the 40 SDI do? Once again I think Evil Omen wins.."
So, 40%SDI and Omen doesn't sound nice combined?.. EDIT : Let me try to beat you to it; Think GANG. Plus not everyone's a Necro. Or wants to be one.

As for Mysticism.. From the little I have seen of it in PVP I have to agree, but the solution wouldn't ideally be reducing its effectiveness, instead increase Spell Resistance effectiveness..

 

[icm420]

My point tho is why go threw all this effort to play something differnt, when mysticism is still going to be the top dog?

Stone form is the most ******** form ever put into this game. There is really no downside, a -2 casting penalty should stack on top of protection, not negated by it. So stone form and protection=win.. factor in a RC summon and who is going to try to kill that guy? Mysticism is only beaten threw mysticism, so it will result in two things.. everyone is still a mystic, or everyone ganks everyone because it is the only way to win...hmm seems the same as right now eh?

Potions need cooldowns, I have been abusing potions for years. I run 10 dex on mages, why waste stat points into dex when I can chug red pots? Why use resist spells or poisoning when I can cure non stop with potions? The potions weight increases only hurt alchemist mages, because now you can't carry any explodes or conflags...once again limiting template options. Now factor in a resistance to poison and I don't see the point in using poison at all. The change to cures is not a big deal, I had to chug 2 cure potions instead of 1 to get the lethal off me.

Cleansing winds nerfs necromancy and that won't change. An apple will remove all necro curses at the same time, but apple with spell plauge on you and it only takes spell plauge off. Also in stone form you are immune to half of the necro debuffs, once again reinforcing mysticism as the way to go. I understand they need to sell the SA upgrade, but to make it so that you can only play one template is what's ruining the pvp. Cleansing winds takes the hard part of playing a mage away, you don't have to cure you don't have to apple you don't have to do anything but hit 1 button. Yeah it's not a guarentee but put 5 guys spamming cleansing together and you will see it's god-mode. Even chain mortals won't kill that. Necro mages were popular for a long time, but a pure could compete against it. How can a pure compete against a rock form cleansing winds spammer in protection? Purge magic is the only counter. I don't want to hear that ward removal talismens work, because sure they may work, but it's not going to take everything off, assuming it does take protection off how long until he recasts it? Oh yah and if hes in stone form you can't weaken or feeblemind to interupt, so you can try harm spams, and even then the guy can probably get the protection threw. Did I mention I have to swap my talismen out to do this too, which only hurts me, while a mystic can hit a button and do the same thing.

Devs should have to pvp a few hours everyday before they go and change things. Cmon over to chessy and I'll gank yah with a mystic tamer mage and you tell me how it's not OP. Adding in a little more SDI isn't going to change that, and making apple timers longer is only going to make mysticism stronger and make chain mortalers the only dexxer option.

I hate to sound so negative but I don't really think this is going to change how the pvp is, it may allow people to use other mage templates again, and will hurt dexxers, but it really isn't going to change a whole lot from my point of view.

 

[Violence]

80% of what you said I've experienced and you're correct. The rest I just haven't in a while and so I don't know what else to say. Let's see if they'll change things more before pushing this out..

 

[o2bavr6]

here is some feedback from testing on TC1

when getting hit by LethalPoison throwing objects or LP weapons it sometimes takes 5 Greater Cure pots to cure them. Is it supposed to be this way?

When on a mage with poison skill I have DPed people from standing right next to them and they can cure it with a G-Cure every time. Is it supposed to be this way?

Either way, 5 Greater Cures to cure LP/DP seems excessive to me. spoke to another guy who said it took him 9 to cure.. this is just second hand info though.

 

[o2bavr6]

Re: Poisoning

While I have not TESTED it, I have simply experienced this while PVPing. It never took me so many Pots to Cure LP/DP, let alone anything weaker and when I did get an answer, it was always that the other person didn't really have to use any exaggerated number of Potions against my LP Infect attempts... Which was what I speculated either way.

I have more than a slight suspicion that this will be the case even after the tweak, at the very least on average. What's more... Even when I had presented solid facts which I had thoroughly examined about Pots/Infect since I spent years PVPing on Melee/Nox, it made no difference. It seems the majority of players and indeed the Devs as well simply do not agree a CoolDown is needed. Why, completely eludes me. Maybe because other ways of Infecting are more practical and increasing Poisons' effectiveness would make those OPed. See "Magery" and now even more other Skills (Necro?).. Seriously, you shouldn't even be able to cast Poison without the Skill and this should be solved, then CoolDowns or other measures could be taken.

And.. Surely in SOME exceptional occassions my Infect persisted so to speak. But those occassions were simply too few in comparison and far in between.

EDIT : You might want to check THIS : http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/195448-poisoning-potion-timers.html Logrus, among others, did share with us his opinions on Poisoning there. It seems we all agreed to not agree in the end..
I should warn you it's full of text bricks, though I did try to present my arguements as best as I could in terms of form..

Trust me on this when I say that poisoning is the new uber template. people use gargoyles with poison throwing or dexers with poisoning and a poisoned weapon. mages just cant survive anymore because its not a matter of chugging one GC potion.

They, as an example, use infecting strike you with their poisoned kryss, which takes you down about 1/4 life... you try to cure by chugging but it takes you 5 potions to cure now. .. in the mean time the dexer is AI'ing you and when you finally cure, they infect you again.. at this point your pretty much dead.. especially if they also have archery as a skill and then moving shot you while you try to run.

In the end I suggest you go to TC1 first and test it out, and then from there comment on what you have seen with the new changes.

 

[lucitus]

Re: Poisoning

Trust me on this when I say that poisoning is the new uber template. people use gargoyles with poison throwing or dexers with poisoning and a poisoned weapon. mages just cant survive anymore because its not a matter of chugging one GC potion.

They, as an example, use infecting strike you with their poisoned kryss, which takes you down about 1/4 life... you try to cure by chugging but it takes you 5 potions to cure now. .. in the mean time the dexer is AI'ing you and when you finally cure, they infect you again.. at this point your pretty much dead.. especially if they also have archery as a skill and then moving shot you while you try to run.

In the end I suggest you go to TC1 first and test it out, and then from there comment on what you have seen with the new changes.

Thats not new, before they adjust the cure potions scaling with Enhance Potions it was exactly the same.

It is hard to balance for me as poison dexxer, it is very useless on production shards at the moment. But you should have be able to get both ways to work, a mage with GM Alchemy and 50 EP should be able to simply cure any kind of poisons (countertemplate), but a Mage without Alchemy and only 50 EP should have only a 75% chance to cure the poison, without EP only 60%.

Another thing is to disable poison spam, but is that fun? If you do that you have also to disable special move spam in general, but also mages can spam spells.

These changes are funny, but i would say not really important, because there are not enough players in PvP to make that interesting again, i dont know why you are working on that now, while other things are more important new player expierence, future client development.

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

Excuse me you lot.. But I feel I have to say this is rubbish.

I run a GM Poison/Melee.. Against targets running 50 EP I didn't even notice any Infect Dmg. 2nd Dmg never ever showed up. Because whether it took them 1, 4 or 8(And you state it takes you an average of 4-5 Pots which you can drink as fast as 1 Pot) to Cure, they always did so BETWEEN Dmg, completely negating it. Using Pots is INSTANT. Hell, I've fought against Noxx/Melee on mine, and I was feeling bad for them. All we did was Infect/Pot/Infect/Pot/Infect/Pot and maybe attempt an AI or a Bleed if it took them more than 1" to Cure which half of those never landed(You present things as if landing swings is constant and there aren't about a dozen methods to avoid that: DISARM, Parry, Evade, DCI, Wrestling, Blood Oath, Dealing DMG so they have to go on DEFENSE! ETC). No Infect Dmg even went through during that silly scene.

Infect ALONE takes you down 1/4? What have you, 80 Health, 20 Physical 20 Poison?

If you're get so badly spammed by AIs, try increasing your DEFENSE measures and such. Sorry to hear that AI gets you but it's not really the Poison doing the job is it? They could merely AI you from the start, Mortal Wound or Bleed would work better for no 100 Points on Poison.
And MovingShot? That's pretty lethal as it is, again without having been Infected.
In the end just Cure through ANY SKILL THAT CAN CURE and enjoy your NEW, FREE RESISTANCE!

Go to TC1 to see that all that's changed from Prod Shards is that one can BECOME RESISTANT to Infect WITHOUT Poisoning and that it now takes CERTAINLY OVER 3 GCs to Cure Lethal at 0.0 Alchemy and 50 EP(I seriously hope you do have EP, stating that you see Poisoning as being UBER)?.. Nothing really changed. Although I do believe I've seen my LP getting PwnD by a SINGLE CurePot so in THAT regard you could be correct- It's now 2 Steps out of 100 closer to MAKING SENSE as a Skill, for 100.0 Points.

 

[Cetric]

Re: Poisoning

Excuse me you lot.. But I feel I have to say this is rubbish.

I run a GM Poison/Melee.. Against targets running 50 EP I didn't even notice any Infect Dmg. 2nd Dmg never ever showed up. Because whether it took them 1, 4 or 8(And you state it takes you an average of 4-5 Pots which you can drink as fast as 1 Pot) to Cure, they always did so BETWEEN Dmg, completely negating it. Using Pots is INSTANT. Hell, I've fought against Noxx/Melee on mine, and I was feeling bad for them. All we did was Infect/Pot/Infect/Pot/Infect/Pot and maybe attempt an AI or a Bleed if it took them more than 1" to Cure which half of those never landed(You present things as if landing swings is constant and there aren't about a dozen methods to avoid that: DISARM, Parry, Evade, DCI, Wrestling, Blood Oath, Dealing DMG so they have to go on DEFENSE! ETC). No Infect Dmg even went through during that silly scene.

Infect ALONE takes you down 1/4? What have you, 80 Health, 20 Physical 20 Poison?

If you're get so badly spammed by AIs, try increasing your DEFENSE measures and such. Sorry to hear that AI gets you but it's not really the Poison doing the job is it? They could merely AI you from the start, Mortal Wound or Bleed would work better for no 100 Points on Poison.
And MovingShot? That's pretty lethal as it is, again without having been Infected.
In the end just Cure through ANY SKILL THAT CAN CURE and enjoy your NEW, FREE RESISTANCE!

Go to TC1 to see that all that's changed from Prod Shards is that one can BECOME RESISTANT to Infect WITHOUT Poisoning and that it now takes CERTAINLY OVER 3 GCs to Cure Lethal at 0.0 Alchemy and 50 EP(I seriously hope you do have EP, stating that you see Poisoning as being UBER)?.. Nothing really changed. Although I do believe I've seen my LP getting PwnD by a SINGLE CurePot so in THAT regard you could be correct- It's now 2 Steps out of 100 closer to MAKING SENSE as a Skill, for 100.0 Points.

If someones carrying 25 cures, and it takes them an average of 4 to cure, you are going to infect them like 6 times before they run out of cures strictly using cure pots.

 

[o2bavr6]

Re: Poisoning

Excuse me you lot.. But I feel I have to say this is rubbish.

I run a GM Poison/Melee.. Against targets running 50 EP I didn't even notice any Infect Dmg. 2nd Dmg never ever showed up. Because whether it took them 1, 4 or 8(And you state it takes you an average of 4-5 Pots which you can drink as fast as 1 Pot) to Cure, they always did so BETWEEN Dmg, completely negating it. Using Pots is INSTANT. Hell, I've fought against Noxx/Melee on mine, and I was feeling bad for them. All we did was Infect/Pot/Infect/Pot/Infect/Pot and maybe attempt an AI or a Bleed if it took them more than 1" to Cure which half of those never landed(You present things as if landing swings is constant and there aren't about a dozen methods to avoid that: DISARM, Parry, Evade, DCI, Wrestling, Blood Oath, Dealing DMG so they have to go on DEFENSE! ETC). No Infect Dmg even went through during that silly scene.

Infect ALONE takes you down 1/4? What have you, 80 Health, 20 Physical 20 Poison?

If you're get so badly spammed by AIs, try increasing your DEFENSE measures and such. Sorry to hear that AI gets you but it's not really the Poison doing the job is it? They could merely AI you from the start, Mortal Wound or Bleed would work better for no 100 Points on Poison.
And MovingShot? That's pretty lethal as it is, again without having been Infected.
In the end just Cure through ANY SKILL THAT CAN CURE and enjoy your NEW, FREE RESISTANCE!

Go to TC1 to see that all that's changed from Prod Shards is that one can BECOME RESISTANT to Infect WITHOUT Poisoning and that it now takes CERTAINLY OVER 3 GCs to Cure Lethal at 0.0 Alchemy and 50 EP(I seriously hope you do have EP, stating that you see Poisoning as being UBER)?.. Nothing really changed. Although I do believe I've seen my LP getting PwnD by a SINGLE CurePot so in THAT regard you could be correct- It's now 2 Steps out of 100 closer to MAKING SENSE as a Skill, for 100.0 Points.

Honestly I dont want to argue with you. I pretty much play TC exclusively and let me tell you my suit is uber. its corspe proof with 70 dci 10 mr 40 lmc 48 sdi, hpi etc. I also use the ring of soulbinder and coral bracelet

Maybe you should go to tc and see what i am talking about is all im saying.

TC is for testing what "may" come to live shards... and what PvP mage do you know runs Alchemy? 50 EP is one thing but again just test it out is all im saying.. have a great day

 

[Logrus]

I already posted this in the Combat Balance thread but I'll post it here as well.


The Poison Resistance effect, acts as a passive chance to self cure poison. This does not prevent the character from being re-poisoned. The chance to cure is re-rolled on each poison tick. Since these ticks usually occur between 2-5 seconds, and the first tick takes place around 3 seconds.
This means that even if the resistance kicks in on the first tick the target is guaranteed to remain poisoned for at least 3 seconds unless they cure the poison by their own initiative.

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

Well then do not, up to you. Thing is that what you're describing doesn't very much sound like having any great equipment nor having planned your strategies carefully. You may play on TC but I've been playing on Prod Shards. And since those changes are based on what's been going on where I play I can pretty much estimate a couple of things. I am not far off in such calculations either, even your own words seem to point that out.

I am not quite sure you even grasped the context in which I mentioned Alchemy, from what I see. Really, Forums ARE for arguing. I mean, if "Rubbish" offended you, I should apologize probably. Other than that I've presented you my arguements, as I had done in that Link I offer. And I've yet to see any logic in any of those conversations, on Poisoning.

Logrus, no matter how you try to put it it is what it is; 0.0 Skill at Poisoning and having Cured through any Skill offering such a method, on top of EVERYTHING else that strips Poisoning of any logic like Cures not Timed, now acts AS A PASSIVE CHANCE TO CURE POISONS.

Right so this doesn't prevent applying Infect again. Is that.. What? Doing us a favour? Nothing EVER prevented applying Infect over and over- To no avail I should add, for all reasons ever mentioned on this matter(Check my Link?)...
Except if you're doing what it is O2bav is doing... Which apparently you should NOT as they are the only player I've heard having ISSUES against Nox/Melee. No offense okay? "1/4 Health DOWN from 1 Infect" and "Getting AIs constantly" on a MAGE.. With the latter, for some obscure reason, being Poisoning's fault. As if Mortal or Bleed wouldn't do the same thing for an AIer, saving them 100.0 and lots of FrUsTrAtIoN.. HINT: Not getting InstaNegated either!

Then you tell us that a Cure is rolled ON EACH TICK. Great. Not even on EACH INFECT. First, I don't often see additional Poison Ticks. It has happened, but it's extremely rare. The only Dmg I see Infect doing is on HIT. And let me tell you I've never EVER seen it taking 1/4 of a target's Health during PVP with properly equipped and built targets(That's EVERY PERSON I EVER FOUGHT, PRETTY MUCH). That's all. Second, if you meant for this to appear as a positive change for all Poison-Dom, Cure should be rolled ONCE per Infect. Not that it would make me Poisoning any more as it is. But it would look more as if you were actually planning to improve the damned Skill.

"The target is guaranteed to remain Poisoned for at least 3" unless they Cure the Poison by their own initiative."
........Which in your thoughts, they have no motives to do so apparently..? Can't make sense out of this AS A COMBAT/BALANCE CHANGE. Great, let's all rely on our GM Poisoning working only when our targets don't decide to Insta/Spam GCures because their NEW FREE RESISTANCE SAFETY NET didn't AutoCure it after 3".
So they have to Cure through Skill to get that "Safety Net" and some simply won't even bother. Why would they, Pots still work; Spam 4-5/Sec as reported which is very similar to the # used PRIOR to these changes and ..

Seriously, WUT?! Poisoning needs a BOOST(Preferably for those WHO HAVE THE SKILL EXCLUSIVELY!?) not a NERF. Nor does it need to be a CRUTCH(Sp?) for Casters/Ranged, which I suspect is the reason WHY SOME PLAYERS see it as being OPed(Srsly. THINK). But that's not my problem, I'm commenting on Melee/Nox which is a long way from doing what it's supposed to do, let alone from being OPed.

Until Cures get a TIMER Poisoning is NOTHING compared to Mortal, Bleed.. In no way does it justify even 10.0 Points. You know what, it's all in my Thread on Poisoning. Which in you've commented as "Having lost momentum.." probably because there was nothing to be said other than Poisoning being crap.. I found no valid arguements against this. In the end, all of us involved just dropped it. Deja-Vu. I've said all I wanted to say on Poisoning Changes.

Sorry if I CAPSLOCK much.. It does look like I'm /NerdRaging, I know.

Why don't Devs ever take such arguements to the TC for a couple of days, tweaking and tinkering, actively participating as PLAYERS? Observing other players trying things out and encouraging them to have 24Hr DisArm Tests, DisMount Tests, Poisoning Tests.. Examining, experiencing the practical side of things, implementing new mechanics.. Instead of pushing out Pubs or having lengthy(MONTHS or even YEARS!) conversations with little participation, concentrating on theoretical calculations?.. The worst that could happen is proving some people were correct and some were simply wrong and do us all a favour. The best that could happen.. That depends. New Skills? More Game Balance? You name it. What's the point discussing this any further, for instance? How long would it take Devs to, say, implement a CurePot Timer and leave it like that for a couple of days, going from there? Just an example, this could be done for ANYTHING. I mean, what's stopping them? Are they actually TALKING about what they read around here, while there's a TEST CENTER available?.. Personally I would never bring up CurePot Timers again, if I was CLEARLY SHOWN that they wouldn't work no matter how they are implemented and what else could be HARMLESSLY changed to facilitate their implementation.

 

[o2bavr6]

unless they cure the poison by their own initiative.

What does this mean?
Using band aids?
Using arch cure spell?
Using Greater Cure pots?

are all of these "ones own initiative"?

Thanks

 

[Lynk]

What does this mean?
Using band aids?
Using arch cure spell?
Using Greater Cure pots?

are all of these "ones own initiative"?

Thanks

If you cure using a skill, like chiv, magery, or bandaids it is of ones 'own initiative'. Not using pots or a heal stone.

 

[o2bavr6]

Re: Poisoning

I should apologize probably. Other than that I've presented you my arguments, as I had done in that Link I offer. And I've yet to see any logic in any of those conversations, on Poisoning.

No need to apologize, its just that some people in threads cant have adult discussions like you seem to be able to have.

I think it would be a good idea if you had the time, to log onto TC1 and see the poisoning changes I am talking about. They could not be any more different than what is on a reg shard.

In fact PvP has changed quite a bit with all the new changes. the new SDI changes are quite interesting. after curse with 40 SDI I can do 48 to 50 damage flamestrikes.

Not saying they are good or bad yet, i'm still trying it all out.

But I will say this. There is a guy on TC! who plays in wolf form and throws the Cyclone weapon.. no specials, nothing, just throws them and he throws them so fast that he is killing most mages... even I who have 70 DCI and parry have problems casting spells against him. its actually kinda funny. now he also have 50 ep and can run when needed to get away. but over all he kills them all. And this guy doesn't even use poisoning.

Before you say that all the mages are terrible and have poor tactics, please just log on when you have a chance and see for your self.

Again in regards to poisoning, all I am saying is the new changes on TC1 require you to chug up to 5 and sometimes more GCures to cure it. That is a huge amount of potions and it also is a significant amount of time when you consider how long, or more importantly short, some fights last.


edit:
I will try to not chug a cure for 3 seconds and then see what happens if it cures it.

 

[Logrus]

Numbers on Poison Resistance Chance.
Lesser Poison = 1
Normal Poison = 2
Greater Poison = 3
Deadly Poison = 4
Lethal Poison = 5

          Poison Skill
Poison 20	40	60	75	100
1	0	32.00	48.00	60	80
2	0	16.00	24.00	30	40
3	0	10.67	16.00	20	26
4	0	0	12.00	15	20
5	0	0	9.60	12	16


        Temporary Resistance Lvl
Poison 1	2	3	4
1	15	30	45	60
2	0	15	22.5	30
3	0	10	15	20
4	0	0	11.25	15
5	0	0	0	12

Since the tables didnt paste clearly, Poison strength is on the Left Column in each table.
On the natural resistance table Poison skill is on the upper row, and on the second table, termporary resistance level is on the upper row.
Temporary Resistance decays at a rate of 1 level per 8 seconds.

When you cure poison, your resistance level is set at the same level as the poison you cured (up to level 4) unless your current temporary resistance level is higher than the poison you just cured. If you cure using a potion your temporary resistance level is set to.

Poison cured by the resistance effect will not reset the resistance timer or resistance level. This means when the effect kicks in it will not extend the effect beyond what it was after the player cured themself to receive the resistance in the first place.
(Hope that is clear )


You can round down all decimals.

 

[Klapauc]

I dunno if i should post this here or on the healing thread, but as logrus seems to read this one i do it here.

With the changes to cure pots and potions weights, how are melee warriors that dont use necromancy but good old bandages going to fight high level poison monsters. Until now you could use a greater cure to remove lethal the last second before a bandage kicked in if you really needed the heal.
Last second was neccessary because the ai immediatly applies poison again.
After the changes to pots one can forget about this method and probably needs 120 healing then.
While i do understand that some changes to poisoning where neccessary for pvp, there are side effects.
With the changes to cure pots and potion weight, the non necro pvm samurai/ninja builds got a serious nerf as they had to rely on pots sometimes.
No wonder everyone is using sampires, because even those few people that want to play something else get forced to it.

 

[AzSel]

In my opinion if you invest 100 skillpts on your template you kinda deserve a higher (100%) resistance against level 1 poison, and (80%) against level 2 poison.

 

[Logrus]

Cure potions were tweaked, not whacked.

 

[Klapauc]

If greater cure pots stay as they are on tc, they will be nearly useless for pvm.
That means you will see sampires/curse weapon guys if someone prefers melee, otherwise a horde of rising colossus and ranged chars for the group play. Maybe mystic dexxers.
Try a minion of scelestos on a melee char. You will find you will have to retreat just to get some more potions/bandies to finally kill him. And thats on human char . Oh and on the way in and out have a look at that group play.

 

[Violence]

Re: Poisoning

Thanks and I am glad you're enjoying the new SDI.

Interesting, about that Animal Form/Cyclone thing... I am not quite sure how it relates to Poisoning at all. Even to strictly Melee/Nox. Such a Throwing/Ninja Template being effective, meaning Melee is too.. Which implies that Melee+Poison is much more so.. I have to say this is faulty. Now, I won't say I PwN in PVP.. And I was never going to say that all Casters are crap on TC1. But maybe you're not prepared. I could be wrong but it seems the counter is easy if that's all that person is doing. Maybe we can discuss this through PMs. It's not related to the Topic..

Changes not being too different from what we have on ProdShards, save for the additional GCs required on average, is part of the problem. Barely any difference, due to GCs having no Timers. So I see no significant amount of any factor, related to Curing through Pots.

I still have to wonder how come TC isn't used more aggressively by the Devs for such things.. Think "Myth Busters". "Do GCs require a Timer? Let's see what would happen!" Simple. Could be used for ALL such issues.

 

[Vexxed]

Ok... so do I understand what Logrus posted Correctly...
Code:

The #'s in RED are your Chance to Resist poison based off your poisoning skill?
Poison Skill
Poison 20 40 60 75 100
1 0 32.00 48.00 60 80
2 0 16.00 24.00 30 40
3 0 10.67 16.00 20 26
4 0 0 12.00 15 20
5 0 0 9.60 12 16


Temporary Resistance Lvl
Poison 1 2 3 4
1 15 30 45 60
2 0 15 22.5 30
3 0 10 15 20
4 0 0 11.25 15
5 0 0 0 12

The Numbers in BLUE are Your %'s to Resist level's of poison based on the Level of poison you've recently cured? (this apparently decreases with time?)

LASTLY .. o2bvr6... Sa-Vok appreciates your worship !! That temp doesnt' even have anything to do with current TC stuff heh.

 

[o2bavr6]

Re: Poisoning

Thanks and I am glad you're enjoying the new SDI. Interesting, about that Animal Form/Cyclone thing... I am not quite sure how it relates to Poisoning at all. Even to strictly Melee/Nox. Such a Throwing/Ninja Template being effective, meaning Melee is too.. Which implies that Melee+Poison is much more so.. I have to say this is faulty. Now, I won't say I PwN in PVP.. And I was never going to say that all Casters are crap on TC1. But maybe you're not prepared. I could be wrong but it seems the counter is easy if that's all that person is doing. Maybe we can discuss this through PMs. It's not related to the Topic..

It doesn't have anything to do with poisoning, but it seems like the pvp changes have had a side effect to how it was before.

My tank mage prior to the patch would have had no issue with the template at all. since the changes he gets hit much much more.. but you are correct this is off topic.

I just have to figure out how what the changes did to my tank mage

 

[o2bavr6]

LASTLY .. o2bvr6... Sa-Vok appreciates your worship !! That temp doesnt' even have anything to do with current TC stuff heh.

Haha Sa-Vok thats such a funny template, but its not worship . and Ive never seen that temp and char on prior to the pvp changes. i do think it benefited from the changes because in the past my tank mage could have just stood there. Now he gets hit way way more.

but again this is off topic.