Please keep your promise dev teams

[Tomas_Bryce]

Do you even read the boards you are moderating?

If you actually read my posts you would see that it clearly states in my signature that I am not a moderator of UHall. Maybe you should read posts you are responding to instead of accusing others of not doing so?

The fact that you asked that shows that, yes, it was really needed. I notice you didn't ask her if it was really necessary for her to come here and make up things I said instead of comment on things I actually said. Shocking that the people that just ignore the written word in their mad dash to look cool to their buddies does that, I know.

And you continue with your personal attack on LadyNico.

Sorry, I can't even make sense of the rest of your post. You seem to be mad because totems being destroyed will lead to trammel players whining (sic) leading to moderators deleting more worthwhile threads?? *scratches head*

 

[eccentricjules]

Seriously people… I’m a blue and I play in tram and fel. I have been in the graveyards in fel, and I haven’t been attacked once. I don’t see what the big deal is. I go to fel all the time and get PK’d like once a month. What’s the difference between a player killing you and looting you vs. the Lich killing you and looting you… Not much. You simply accept the monster looting you as being part of the game... but aren't reds a part of the game too?

I would like to note that if you do the Halloween quest and you talk to Dark Guardian the Keeper of Knowledge in Khaldun and you say the word "totems" he says "Until they are destroyed, they will continue to raise cursed creatures."

 

[Viquire]

Seriously people… I’m a blue and I play in tram and fel. I have been in the graveyards in fel, and I haven’t been attacked once. I don’t see what the big deal is. I go to fel all the time and get PK’d like once a month. What’s the difference between a player killing you and looting you vs. the Lich killing you and looting you… Not much. You simply accept the monster looting you as being part of the game... but aren't reds a part of the game too?

I would like to note that if you do the Halloween quest and you talk to Dark Guardian the Keeper of Knowledge in Khaldun and you say the word "totems" he says "Until they are destroyed, they will continue to raise cursed creatures."

Hmmmmm, this might call for less prattle and more actual playing of the game. Thanks EJ.

 

[D'Amavir]

If you actually read my posts you would see that it clearly states in my signature that I am not a moderator of UHall. Maybe you should read posts you are responding to instead of accusing others of not doing so?

Unlike you, I do read posts. Even sigs. You might not actively 'mod' this board. But I am pretty sure that you are in pretty good contact with those that do. Like a cop walking down the street in uniform in a neighborhood that's not his beat. People are just going to do drugs in front of him? Nah. He is still a cop.

And you continue with your personal attack on LadyNico.

To be clear, her making up things that I say is ok. But me pointing out that she is making up things that I say is personal attacks? Gotcha. See the point I made above. Thanks.

Sorry, I can't even make sense of the rest of your post. You seem to be mad because totems being destroyed will lead to trammel players whining (sic) leading to moderators deleting more worthwhile threads?? *scratches head*

You don't understand that some people would prefer not wading through thread after thread made by people whining about one facet or the other? Gotcha. And you don't understand that mods having to waste time wading through thread after thread made by people whining about one facet or the other wastes a lot of time? Gotcha.

So, to sum it up. I think that this change will increase the animosity between Trammel and Fel players, as the original posts on this very thread clearly shows. And you don't understand that. Again, gotcha.

 

[Tomas_Bryce]

*gives up on this thread*

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

...
I would like to note that if you do the Halloween quest and you talk to Dark Guardian the Keeper of Knowledge in Khaldun and you say the word "totems" he says "Until they are destroyed, they will continue to raise cursed creatures."

Clearly it's working as it was designed...

The problem is yet again, a game mechanic was designed into the game which by it's implementation allows FEL players to manipulate the system and force players who want nothing to do with the FEL ruleset no choice but to play within that space in order to complete the quest.

Maybe that was an important part of the Halloween Quest mechanic and intended to be this way... I tend to doubt it was needed considering all the other content in Pub 56 that already had PvP/Factions boosts and Tram quasi nerfs with the invasions based on what's going on in Fel... but if the designers really wanted Fels to be able to stop the Halloween quest for Trams who want no part of Fel then so be it, they got what they wanted. Since the Halloween quest is on a timer anyway, and restricted to 1x per toon max it seems overboard to also allow this manipulation.

Again, I'll suggest that they either respawn all the Totems every server restart so if they are destroyed one day people can complete it the next until the time is up, or make max HP x 100 or x 1000 so FELs can't reasonably destroy this event for Trams, and not create this type of system in the future.

 

[D'Amavir]

Clearly it's working as it was designed...

The problem is yet again, a game mechanic was designed into the game which by it's implementation allows FEL players to manipulate the system and force players who want nothing to do with the FEL ruleset no choice but to play within that space in order to complete the quest.

Maybe that was an important part of the Halloween Quest mechanic and intended to be this way... I tend to doubt it was needed considering all the other content in Pub 56 that already had PvP/Factions boosts and Tram quasi nerfs with the invasions based on what's going on in Fel... but if the designers really wanted Fels to be able to stop the Halloween quest for Trams who want no part of Fel then so be it, they got what they wanted. Since the Halloween quest is on a timer anyway, and restricted to 1x per toon max it seems overboard to also allow this manipulation.

Again, I'll suggest that they either respawn all the Totems every server restart so if they are destroyed one day people can complete it the next until the time is up, or make max HP x 100 or x 1000 so FELs can't reasonably destroy this event for Trams, and not create this type of system in the future.

Its funny that you are saying the same thing I am yet those same typical people aren't flocking all over you saying how wrong you are. Expected, but funny still.

The devs are definitely getting what they wanted. Just seems like what they want and what's best for the game don't really coincide.

 

[peanutbutter]

Please keep your promise to us dev teams you promised us that the new halloween quest will last until Nov 17th in trammel and players are trying to destroy all of the totem skulls in tram like crazy to force players to come to fel which is very wrong. so please make it impossible to destroy all the totem skulls in tram until novemeber 17th thanks.

i don't know how it is on your shard, but i wish the people of tram would get rid of their flight instinct. (btw, i got bored with fel about 6 months ago and started crafting, which is about all i do now)

on most shards, the number of people in trammel vastly outnumber the people in fel, though they may not be as well equipped of fit for PvP.

either way, sheer numbers can win wars.

look, do you not realize that if all 2,000 of the water buffalo wanted to, they could turn and completely trample the 4 or 5 lions that are chasing them?

if your shard gets the RP/Tram event ruined, band together and ALL of you go into fel and farm the crap out of it. if you do it right, you should outnumber fel players (on most shards, not all) by 5 to 1. if you can't manage to get by with odds like that, turn off the computer and read a book.

fixed.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

i don't know how it is on your shard, but i wish the people of tram would get rid of their flight instinct. (btw, i got bored with fel about 6 months ago and started crafting, which is about all i do now)

on most shards, the number of people in trammel vastly outnumber the people in fel, though they may not be as well equipped of fit for PvP.

either way, sheer numbers can win wars.

look, do you not realize that if all 2,000 of the water buffalo wanted to, they could turn and completely trample the 4 or 5 lions that are chasing them?

if your shard gets the RP/Tram event ruined, band together and ALL of you go into fel and farm the crap out of it. if you do it right, you should outnumber fel players (on most shards, not all) by 5 to 1. if you can't manage to get by with odds like that, turn off the computer and read a book.

fixed.

Trams are playing in TRAM because they don't WANT non-consentual PvP!!! They don't want to gank others and they don't want to be ganked. They don't want to get together with 100 of their nearest and dearest Trams and invade Fel (if they know 100 Trams)... They want to play in TRAM!!! That's why they are playing there and that's why FEL is a wasteland on just about every shard but Seige!

If EA/Mythic would post the numbers, which I'm sure they could collect from their systems if they don't have them already, I'm willing to bet that at least 85-90 of all "Player Hours" are played in Tram rulesets on shards that have them. That should tell the Designers / Developers / Managers at EA/Mythic that while they certianly can create content that forces these manipulations (as we can see), when they do it, it will aggrivate a huge majority of their player base for the amusement of a very small minority.

 

[Lynk]

Destroying the totems is actually part of the quest. It's a choice that each shard can make for themselves whether they want to RP the normal behavior of a community invaded by destroying the source of the invasion, or keep it active to farm the items out of it. The number of "HP" of each totem is fairly high and not everyone will be using their venom sac on them. So it will be a while before they are all destroyed unless Sicarii is being farmed around the clock and every single drop of venom is used.

Some Feluccans have exposed their plans of destroying all the Totems in Trammel to force Trammelites into Felucca. Beat them at their own game. Destroy their totems so they will have nothing else to bait you with. Or farm the graveyards while you can. How each shard handles the outcome of the quest is up to you, not up to us.

You have just become my favorite Dev. First the faction changes and now the Fellucca support!

 

[peanutbutter]

Trams are playing in TRAM because they don't WANT non-consentual PvP!!! They don't want to gank others and they don't want to be ganked. They don't want to get together with 100 of their nearest and dearest Trams and invade Fel (if they know 100 Trams)... They want to play in TRAM!!! That's why they are playing there and that's why FEL is a wasteland on just about every shard but Seige!

If EA/Mythic would post the numbers, which I'm sure they could collect from their systems if they don't have them already, I'm willing to bet that at least 85-90 of all "Player Hours" are played in Tram rulesets on shards that have them. That should tell the Designers / Developers / Managers at EA/Mythic that while they certianly can create content that forces these manipulations (as we can see), when they do it, it will aggrivate a huge majority of their player base for the amusement of a very small minority.

oh, now it's a "tram players are better or more important than fel players" discussion?

i'll bite. yeah, you might be right... but hours and characters don't matter. accounts matter. they don't give a rat's arse how many hours you play, because they don't charge by the hour.

the fact is that "fel players" play BOTH sides which means that a good portion of the people your playing in tam with right now are going to be killing blues in fel later tonight. "tram players", by your own analysis, ONLY play in tram. so, gearing the game for "tram players" excludes a greater majority of accounts than does gearing the game for "fel players".

i may have only 1 red and 4 blues. my blues craft and make money... but my red is what keeps me tied to the game. that's the way it is for most fel players. hell, a good number of the blues you see doing the quests, crafting at the bank, refilling their vendors, etc are just running that on one account while they PvP on another!

for years and years and years the "tram only" people have been complaining about how the devs "always do stuff for fel players". you're lucky there even IS a tram! have you not realized by now that it's always going to be this way? PvP is a more complex thing than you can know... there must be balance to a greater degree than anything in PvM. "tram players", as the devs know, will mostly deal with it and continue playing... fel players (who also play tram) will get pissed and quit, leading to more trouble than it's worth.

it's been that way for years and it will be that way until UO dies completely. it might not be right, it might not be good, but it is what it is.

quite begging for paternalism! take matters into your own hands and solve your own issues for crying out loud. it's only non-consnetual PvP if you don't go LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

oh, now it's a "tram players are better or more important than fel players" discussion?

Where'd you get that from what I said?

I said the Dev's should leave Tram's alone and not set up mechanisms for Fels to come in and grief us by destroying something we need which forces us into Fel... That's it. Leave Fel's alone... Don't do anything bad to you... Just don't put in a mechanic that sets up extra ways for me to be forced into FEL against my will (not forced, but manipulated for completing quests or getting critical items etc).

 

[Connor_Graham]

Destroying the totems is actually part of the quest. It's a choice that each shard can make for themselves whether they want to RP the normal behavior of a community invaded by destroying the source of the invasion, or keep it active to farm the items out of it. The number of "HP" of each totem is fairly high and not everyone will be using their venom sac on them. So it will be a while before they are all destroyed unless Sicarii is being farmed around the clock and every single drop of venom is used.

Some Feluccans have exposed their plans of destroying all the Totems in Trammel to force Trammelites into Felucca. Beat them at their own game. Destroy their totems so they will have nothing else to bait you with. Or farm the graveyards while you can. How each shard handles the outcome of the quest is up to you, not up to us.

So in other words, if you don't want to go to Fel, then go to Fel so you won't have to go to Fel.

Yeah, that's makes sense....

 

[LadyNico]

You know, it occurs to me that all I or anyone has to go on is what you have said in this thread, D'Amvir. If you cannot make yourself understood, that is hardly the fault of those on the reading end of your posts.

Remember the Magincia event? I don't know how it was on other shards, however, there were some wild & wonderful alliances formed in Felucca on Europa.

One of the key factors which brought together both Trammel and Felucca players was the element of ALL of us, individually & collectively - and regardless of usual chosen facet of play - having an impact on the outcome.

Working towards a goal, adapting to changes, both in shifts in alliances & in others' motivations, too, as well as in changes in the event itself as it unfolded all rated a big thumbs up from me.

During that event, some were motivated by profit, others by saving Magincia, and still others by completely different priorities altogether.

No matter who you speak to, it was a rich and enormously fun event experience for all, and, remarkably, all regardless of usual facet.

You know, D'Amvir, it may very well be the case that the Devs have rather bigger, more broadly impacting plans than you might assume or imagine. Personally, I'd bet on it.

Regardless, you appear to be hellbent on altering those unknown plans for reasons which despite my very best efforts I've been wholly unable to determine.

I hope you fail if only because I'd really like to see, unfettered, just what it is that the Devs have up their sleeves.

 

[D'Amavir]

You know, it occurs to me that all I or anyone has to go on is what you have said in this thread, D'Amvir. If you cannot make yourself understood, that is hardly the fault of those on the reading end of your posts.

Remember the Magincia event? I don't know how it was on other shards, however, there were some wild & wonderful alliances formed in Felucca on Europa.

One of the key factors which brought together both Trammel and Felucca players was the element of ALL of us, individually & collectively - and regardless of usual chosen facet of play - having an impact on the outcome.

Working towards a goal, adapting to changes, both in shifts in alliances & in others' motivations, too, as well as in changes in the event itself as it unfolded all rated a big thumbs up from me.

During that event, some were motivated by profit, others by saving Magincia, and still others by completely different priorities altogether.

No matter who you speak to, it was a rich and enormously fun event experience for all, and, remarkably, all regardless of usual facet.

You know, D'Amvir, it may very well be the case that the Devs have rather bigger, more broadly impacting plans than you might assume or imagine. Personally, I'd bet on it.

Regardless, you appear to be hellbent on altering those unknown plans for reasons which despite my very best efforts I've been wholly unable to determine.

I hope you fail if only because I'd really like to see, unfettered, just what it is that the Devs have up their sleeves.

Are you even reading this thread? Look at the last few posts. The 'Fel is better than Trammel and Trammel is better than Fel' posts are already starting because of this.

As for being hellbent, yes, I am. I am hellbent on trying to cut down the hatred between the two facets. Hellbent on trying to cut down on the anti Fel and anti Trammel posts on these boards. If that makes me a bad guy, then I guess I will be a bad guy. If that makes people like you pile onto me whenever I say that making trammel players feel like they are being forced into Fel will just cause those players to dislike Fel even more, then so be it.

But the facts remain. Read the last few posts. I know you won't. But I can ask you to do so anyway.

So in other words, if you don't want to go to Fel, then go to Fel so you won't have to go to Fel.

Yeah, that's makes sense....

Wasn't me that said that. And, as expected, you didn't pile onto him with your rants.

I said the Dev's should leave Tram's alone and not set up mechanisms for Fels to come in and grief us by destroying something we need which forces us into Fel... That's it. Leave Fel's alone... Don't do anything bad to you... Just don't put in a mechanic that sets up extra ways for me to be forced into FEL against my will (not forced, but manipulated for completing quests or getting critical items etc).

Again, not me saying that so, as expected, no you ranting against it.

oh, now it's a "tram players are better or more important than fel players" discussion?

Yet again, not me. So no you.

Starting to see a trend? I can come out and say that UO stands for Ultima Online and people like you and your friends will pop off all day telling me how wrong I am. Funny stuff really.

Even more for you to chew on that comes from other people that aren't the current target of the Attack Squad;

the fact is that "fel players" play BOTH sides which means that a good portion of the people your playing in tam with right now are going to be killing blues in fel later tonight. "tram players", by your own analysis, ONLY play in tram. so, gearing the game for "tram players" excludes a greater majority of accounts than does gearing the game for "fel players".

That should tell the Designers / Developers / Managers at EA/Mythic that while they certianly can create content that forces these manipulations (as we can see), when they do it, it will aggrivate a huge majority of their player base for the amusement of a very small minority.

All this will do is get people angry that aren't able to get on and mess around with it fast enough (like me who is stuck without being able to play).

All of those were examples of exactly what I am saying. And none of those had any insulting comments from you or your buddy tied to them. Coincidence I know. Its all because I am just wrong and hellbent on stopping the great plans that the dev team has. For sure. Carry on you guys. Carry on.

 

[peanutbutter]

everything i said was based on "magicman" post
"Trams are playing in TRAM because they don't WANT non-consentual PvP!!! They don't want to gank others and they don't want to be ganked. They don't want to get together with 100 of their nearest and dearest Trams and invade Fel (if they know 100 Trams)... They want to play in TRAM!!! That's why they are playing there and that's why FEL is a wasteland on just about every shard but Seige!

If EA/Mythic would post the numbers, which I'm sure they could collect from their systems if they don't have them already, I'm willing to bet that at least 85-90 of all "Player Hours" are played in Tram rulesets on shards that have them. That should tell the Designers / Developers / Managers at EA/Mythic that while they certianly can create content that forces these manipulations (as we can see), when they do it, it will aggrivate a huge majority of their player base for the amusement of a very small minority."

the key miss-conception is here: If EA/Mythic would post the numbers, which I'm sure they could collect from their systems if they don't have them already, I'm willing to bet that at least 85-90 of all "Player Hours" are played in Tram rulesets on shards that have them."
and here"will aggrivate a huge majority of their player base for the amusement of a very small minority."

it's just wrong to think that way. and if the people of tram think they are the majority, why not band together and go to fel to prove it?

we have to remember that UO's original intent was NOT to have a "tram".

the fact is that this event and others allows for the inter-play of both sides, if they so choose.

therefore, the fel players going into tram to play BOTH sides benefits the game overall because it lessens the divide that has emerged.

i encourage the tram players to do the same.

 

[D'Amavir]

everything i said was based on "magicman" post
"Trams are playing in TRAM because they don't WANT non-consentual PvP!!! They don't want to gank others and they don't want to be ganked. They don't want to get together with 100 of their nearest and dearest Trams and invade Fel (if they know 100 Trams)... They want to play in TRAM!!! That's why they are playing there and that's why FEL is a wasteland on just about every shard but Seige!

If EA/Mythic would post the numbers, which I'm sure they could collect from their systems if they don't have them already, I'm willing to bet that at least 85-90 of all "Player Hours" are played in Tram rulesets on shards that have them. That should tell the Designers / Developers / Managers at EA/Mythic that while they certianly can create content that forces these manipulations (as we can see), when they do it, it will aggrivate a huge majority of their player base for the amusement of a very small minority."

the key miss-conception is here: If EA/Mythic would post the numbers, which I'm sure they could collect from their systems if they don't have them already, I'm willing to bet that at least 85-90 of all "Player Hours" are played in Tram rulesets on shards that have them."
and here"will aggrivate a huge majority of their player base for the amusement of a very small minority."

it's just wrong to think that way. and if the people of tram think they are the majority, why not band together and go to fel to prove it?

we have to remember that UO's original intent was NOT to have a "tram".

the fact is that this event and others allows for the inter-play of both sides, if they so choose.

therefore, the fel players going into tram to play BOTH sides benefits the game overall because it lessens the divide that has emerged.

i encourage the tram players to do the same.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with anything you said. My point, from the start, is that adding something that makes one side feel forced to go to the other side is going to just lead to more and more posts where one side complains about the other forcing the other side to make more and more posts defending their side and pointing out the wrongs on the other side.

I am sure that if the devs put in a change that made 100% full time Fel players feel forced to go to Trammel would upset those full time Fel players. Notice I said 'feel forced'. I am not saying that this change FORCES anyone to do anything. But, it does make certain types of people FEEL forced. And that just leads to animosity. Always has, always will.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

it's just wrong to think that way. and if the people of tram think they are the majority, why not band together and go to fel to prove it?

we have to remember that UO's original intent was NOT to have a "tram".

the fact is that this event and others allows for the inter-play of both sides, if they so choose.

therefore, the fel players going into tram to play BOTH sides benefits the game overall because it lessens the divide that has emerged.

i encourage the tram players to do the same.

Peanutbutter,

Discussing this with you, and other "Die Hard Fels" would obviously get me nowhere and we would never see eye-to-eye so I won't even bother.

I do remember that UO's original intent was NOT to have a "Tram" and it would have died out early on if it had stayed that way... I played in the early days, mining outside Minoc when there was only a single land and idiot PK's (not saying ALL Fel's are in this category) would come along and kill miners and thier packies... not even taking their ore or axes... just because they wanted the kills.

Trams DO far outnumber Fels and there's no doubt about it. It's guaranteed and everyone knows it including everyone at EA/Mythic. I'm not saying they should get rid of Fel ruleset or nerf it or even advocating reducing it, I'm just saying there's more FAR more people who don't want to play that style... telling people who don't want to play that style to gather up their friends and come play that style is a a little juvinile to me to I won't even discuss that part.

I have no objection of Fels coming to Tram and playing within our ruleset and no objecting to Trams VOLUNTARILY going to FEL and agreeing to play within that ruleset... I object when the Devs/Designers set us up to be manipulated by griefers. End of story.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

Oh the anticipation.... everyone is watching as Sak is reading and then replying to this thead... but taking a long time...

You are torturing us! Post already! LOL

 

[LadyNico]

D'Amvir, yes, I am reading, or more accurately, I have now returned to read this thread.

Truthfully, only reiteration is left to me at this point.

Those who want to join in the event, they will do so.

Those that want to follow the event where it leads them, they will do so and will profit in terms of experience and/or event goodies.

Those that want to complain about it, will probably post here will all kinds of reasons why they can't/won't/don't want to do so and whinging bitterly about the price of stuff they didn't want to risk getting for themselves.

Frankly, some stuff just doesn't change.

There's a saying that goes something to the effect of:- We seldom regret the things we do half as much as we regret the things we didn't do.

Me? I'm off to experience the event. Enjoy the thread, I guess...

 

[Sakkarah_]

lol such passionate debate!

Ok, first lets start with the disclaimer...

The original design of the event was that the totem would work somewhat like turning in the Book of Truth did and the top contributors would be rewarded for having played such a large role in ridding Britannia of those foul creatures. Various factors (including time constraint if we were to deliver this before Halloween) forced me to abandon that part. I could have just removed destroying the totems but from a RP point of view, it doesn't make sense. And there's nothing worse than a story without a "logical" closure. You were given the tools to end the invasion yourself or we will do it for you on Nov 17. Either way, it will be because the totems were "destroyed", not just some magical disappearance of the mobs.

Now, about the Felucca factor...

If I wanted for force players in Felucca, I wouldn't have mirrored Khaldun in Tram. The event was setup in a way to allow blues, reds and Siege players alike to be able to complete it.

Now some reds thought of using a quest mechanic as a strategy to attract blues to Fel. That wasn't planned, but I think it's clever and creates an interesting dynamic. Do I see them succeeding? No. I gave the Totems sufficient HP that it's unlikely any shard will have all their totems destroyed unless absolutely everyone uses their venom sacs on them. And I just don't see the reds PvMing 24/7 for the next 10 days just to try to lure blues to Fel.

So to me, this is an interesting debate in theory, but a moot issue in reality. I would be more concerned with traders trying to destroy the totems as quickly as possible to create greater rarity on the items they have.

In either case, we give you the tools and as a community you shape your world with them the way you see fit.

 

[D'Amavir]

Those that want to complain about it, will probably post here will all kinds of reasons why they can't/won't/don't want to do so and whinging bitterly about the price of stuff they didn't want to risk getting for themselves.

Exactly! My point from the start. Glad you finally agree with me. The only difference is that I think the devs shouldn't go out of their way to make MORE excuses for people to whine. But, those types will do so anyway so I guess adding fuel to the fire like the devs insist on doing is just fine.

 

[LadyNico]

Those that want to complain about it, will probably post here will all kinds of reasons why they can't/won't/don't want to do so and whinging bitterly about the price of stuff they didn't want to risk getting for themselves.

Exactly! My point from the start. Glad you finally agree with me. The only difference is that I think the devs shouldn't go out of their way to make MORE excuses for people to whine. But, those types will do so anyway so I guess adding fuel to the fire like the devs insist on doing is just fine.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

Lady Nico,

I truly hope you enjoy the Halloween quest and get what you want out of it. Everyone should have the opportunities to play the game in the ways they enjoy so I wish you all the best in your endevours.

For the rest of us who are in Tram, I wish the FELs on our shards weren't INTENTIONALLY TRYING to disrupt our ability to complete the event on Tram, manipulating us to have to do it in Fel and therefore becoming extra targets for their enjoyment. Some people can only seem to have fun at others expense instead of looking for fun in a friendly and competitive way with a willing participant. It's unfortunate but true and always has been in UO, there are too many griefers and many people who would rather stay in Tram lands than deal with them.

It's up to the Developers/Designers at EA/Mythic to find the right balance, and IMHO, with all the 56 content relating to Factions, town invasions in Tram based on what's going on in Fel etc... They could have (should have) made the Holloween quest isolated from griefing in some way.

 

[D'Amavir]

lol such passionate debate!

Ok, first lets start with the disclaimer...

The original design of the event was that the totem would work somewhat like turning in the Book of Truth did and the top contributors would be rewarded for having played such a large role in ridding Britannia of those foul creatures. Various factors (including time constraint if we were to deliver this before Halloween) forced me to abandon that part. I could have just removed destroying the totems but from a RP point of view, it doesn't make sense. And there's nothing worse than a story without a "logical" closure. You were given the tools to end the invasion yourself or we will do it for you on Nov 17. Either way, it will be because the totems were "destroyed", not just some magical disappearance of the mobs.

Now, about the Felucca factor...

If I wanted for force players in Felucca, I wouldn't have mirrored Khaldun in Tram. The event was setup in a way to allow blues, reds and Siege players alike to be able to complete it.

Now some reds thought of using a quest mechanic as a strategy to attract blues to Fel. That wasn't planned, but I think it's clever and creates an interesting dynamic. Do I see them succeeding? No. I gave the Totems sufficient HP that it's unlikely any shard will have all their totems destroyed unless absolutely everyone uses their venom sacs on them. And I just don't see the reds PvMing 24/7 for the next 10 days just to try to lure blues to Fel.

So to me, this is an interesting debate in theory, but a moot issue in reality. I would be more concerned with traders trying to destroy the totems as quickly as possible to create greater rarity on the items they have.

In either case, we give you the tools and as a community you shape your world with them the way you see fit.

So traders have a chance to destroy the totems but its beyond the realm of imagination to even begin to think that Fel players (remember, as everyone knows, that all Fel players are AFK scripters) won't?

And, its interesting that you think that its just 'reds' that are going to be trying to lure people to Fel. I bet if you checked, you would find that there were a lot more blues with murder counts than there are reds these days.

I am sure that even no murder count players in Fel will find a reason to try to destroy the totems in Trammel. To lure people to Fel? Maybe. To keep the items as rare as they can? Maybe. Just to **** off Trammel players that have been making hate filled posts against Fel players since Trammel was created? Maybe. Many types would like to see the totems in Trammel destroyed. Not just reds. Just sad to see someone supposedly in the know that doesn't get that simple fact.

Maybe they won't get ALL of the totems destroyed. But, if they were smart, they would focus their attentions on the few main ones (the ones that most people use) and get those out of the way. Then, those that want to farm the spawn will start becoming more and more focused on those that remain. And as everyone knows, having a large mass of people in one place trying to camp the same spawn is loads of fun. But that won't happen either right? Cool. I am glad you guys planned things so well and that the Fel players aren't smart enough to figure out how to add the most discomfort to Trammel players.

 

[peanutbutter]

Peanutbutter,

Discussing this with you, and other "Die Hard Fels" would obviously get me nowhere and we would never see eye-to-eye so I won't even bother.

k, i'll accept that. only problem is, i haven't played in fel for over 6 months. all i've had the time or desire to do is craft... but, then, that's getting boring, so i think ima head back into fel, though i might hop shards again.

either way, the game is the game. i wasn't saying either one is better than the other. the simple fact is that sometimes other drivers get in your way... you can pray to your god that (it) keep them out of your way or teleport you to a better place where drivers are more to your liking, but that probably won't work.

why not just accept that it is ONE game, not 2 HALVES of a game? why not just take what the game gives you and roll with it? when things aren't working out for me in fel, i go to tram... when that gets boring, i go to fel... i don't look at it as being "forced" to do anything. it's just the nature of the game and if i want to play, i deal with it.

i mean, would it be right for me to come here and complain to the devs that some vendor next to me is thwarting my sales by consistently under-selling me? NO! i could say "that forces me to play in fel because i can't make money vending in tram anymore"...

it's just silly to complain about having to play the game. you might say, "it's not that, it's about HOW i WANT to play the game."

well, i want to play the game so that every time i walk past people they die instantly... but that's not THE GAME.

if you don't want to play in fel for whatever strange reason, fine. but that is YOUR choice to limit yourself. if that means that, by your choice, people who choose to play the WHOLE game have an advantage, fine... you made the choice.

cut and dry.

 

[D'Amavir]

Lady Nico,

I truly hope you enjoy the Halloween quest and get what you want out of it. Everyone should have the opportunities to play the game in the ways they enjoy so I wish you all the best in your endevours.

For the rest of us who are in Tram, I wish the FELs on our shards weren't INTENTIONALLY TRYING to disrupt our ability to complete the event on Tram, manipulating us to have to do it in Fel and therefore becoming extra targets for their enjoyment. Some people can only seem to have fun at others expense instead of looking for fun in a friendly and competitive way with a willing participant. It's unfortunate but true and always has been in UO, there are too many griefers and many people who would rather stay in Tram lands than deal with them.

It's up to the Developers/Designers at EA/Mythic to find the right balance, and IMHO, with all the 56 content relating to Factions, town invasions in Tram based on what's going on in Fel etc... They could have (should have) made the Holloween quest isolated from griefing in some way.

They won't get it. No amount of logic or reason will make anyone that refuses to see see. Even if the Fel plans don't work out, the amount of heat between trammel players and Fel players is sure to increase simply because there is even a remote chance of it happening. If a large bunch of trammel players is having fun farming the Brit Cem, and the Fel players are able to shut down the Brit Cem spawn, sure, those trammel players can just go to another cem. But to even imagine that NO ONE will be upset by the Fel players doing so is ludicrous. And if the dev team pops off again claiming that 'we made the hp's so high blah blah blah' I have to ask, if you made it impossible to do, why make it even a goal? A quest with a logical ending is fine. A quest with an impossible to reach goal as the ending is silly.

Why even make it possible? Why add fuel to an already bad fire? Why? Because they just don't get it. They just refuse to see the truth. Sad indeed.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

Sak,

I hope you are correct and despite their best efforts, the griefers won't succeed in destroying the Totems in Tram.

I like a lot of what you have added to UO lately but I disagree with how you implemented some of it. I hope we don't find on November 5th and 6th that the most populated shards have no totems left on Tram. I will be VERY discouraged in UO and this event should that happen.

I personally don't care for myself. I don't intend to do the Halloween quest and I don't try to collect ever random rare or pixel crack that comes along. I do PASSIONATLY disagree with design implementations that make FEL the only option for anything... since it's proponents are such a small player base vs the UO community as a whole.

Anyway, I wish you would have made the totems destroyable but respawn the next day or something... but whatever, you did what you did... you have the power.

Take care!

 

[peanutbutter]

And, its interesting that you think that its just 'reds' that are going to be trying to lure people to Fel. I bet if you checked, you would find that there were a lot more blues with murder counts than there are reds these days.

huh?

k, just to clear this up... when you get 5 murder counts, you go red.

2 points: 1) by nature, all reds have more murder counts than blues and 2) if blues were luring blues into fel to kill them, they would go red.

so, either your statement is inherently wrong or the plan is to make it wrong asap.

 

[D'Amavir]

huh?

k, just to clear this up... when you get 5 murder counts, you go red.

2 points: 1) by nature, all reds have more murder counts than blues and 2) if blues were luring blues into fel to kill them, they would go red.

so, either your statement is inherently wrong or the plan is to make it wrong asap.

My statement was that there are probably more blues with murder counts than there are reds these days. Not sure how you say that's inherently wrong. You think there are more 5+ murder count reds than there are 1-4 murder count blues? Maybe so, maybe not. But I wouldn't say either opinion is inherently wrong without seeing actually numbers one way or the other.

Add in the noto killers that get no murder counts at all, and I am fairly sure that those combined with blues with murder counts would outnumber reds these days.

Now, if you are saying that the amount of murder counts had by reds is more than the murder counts held by blues, sure. I never doubted that nor did I even say that I thought otherwise. Two different issues entirely.

 

[DHMagicMan_1]

huh?

k, just to clear this up... when you get 5 murder counts, you go red.

2 points: 1) by nature, all reds have more murder counts than blues and 2) if blues were luring blues into fel to kill them, they would go red.

so, either your statement is inherently wrong or the plan is to make it wrong asap.

I believe he meant they space out their kills far enough as to not go red... but they kill a lot more people IN THE LONG RUN then REDS who hang out in Fel and rarely see anyone because other than the Champ Spawns and aparently Yew Gate (?? I never go to Fel) it's a Ghost town and no one ever sees anyone.

 

[D'Amavir]

I believe he meant they space out their kills far enough as to not go red... but they kill a lot more people IN THE LONG RUN then REDS who hang out in Fel and rarely see anyone because other than the Champ Spawns and aparently Yew Gate (?? I never go to Fel) it's a Ghost town and no one ever sees anyone.

Yeah, more or less. I definitely think there are more blue murderers (since you get a murder count if you murder one person and they choose to give you said count you are then a murderer even if you aren't given the title 'murderer' in the game).

 

[peanutbutter]

They won't get it. No amount of logic or reason will make anyone that refuses to see see. Even if the Fel plans don't work out, the amount of heat between trammel players and Fel players is sure to increase simply because there is even a remote chance of it happening. If a large bunch of trammel players is having fun farming the Brit Cem, and the Fel players are able to shut down the Brit Cem spawn, sure, those trammel players can just go to another cem. But to even imagine that NO ONE will be upset by the Fel players doing so is ludicrous. And if the dev team pops off again claiming that 'we made the hp's so high blah blah blah' I have to ask, if you made it impossible to do, why make it even a goal? A quest with a logical ending is fine. A quest with an impossible to reach goal as the ending is silly.

Why even make it possible? Why add fuel to an already bad fire? Why? Because they just don't get it. They just refuse to see the truth. Sad indeed.

my last post (maybe), because, as you say, " No amount of logic or reason will make anyone that refuses to see see. "

they want you to be mad.

they want you to complain.

they want you to be afraid.

they want you to run.

why does a cat pounce a mouse? is it because it's a mouse? maybe. more likely because it is running and it's the cat's NATURE to pounce things that run. it's so built into their nature that they will find ways to make things "run" just so they can pounce them. there's a whole market of fake mouses and toys created and sold just so people can appease the desire in their cats to pounce.

then NEED you to run and every time you run, whether it's in fel or on these forums, they get their kicks.

right now, they are reading this thread and salivating... hoping that you are brave enough to come into fel, but satisfied if you are too afraid... either way, they win. either way, they pounce.

this is UO.

this has always been UO.

this will always be UO.

your only decision is WHAT you will do about it. will you leave or stay? run or fight? get pounced or pounce?

i don't know why people haven't figured this out by now, but you either figure it out or you find yourself here beating your head against the wall going crazy... up to you.

 

[Tycolby]

Funny how the Fel players on my shard are farming Brit Tram yard instead of Brit Fel. They are Trammies at heart.

 

[D'Amavir]

my last post (maybe), because, as you say, " No amount of logic or reason will make anyone that refuses to see see. "

they want you to be mad.

they want you to complain.

they want you to be afraid.

they want you to run.

why does a cat pounce a mouse? is it because it's a mouse? maybe. more likely because it is running and it's the cat's NATURE to pounce things that run. it's so built into their nature that they will find ways to make things "run" just so they can pounce them. there's a whole market of fake mouses and toys created and sold just so people can appease the desire in their cats to pounce.

then NEED you to run and every time you run, whether it's in fel or on these forums, they get their kicks.

right now, they are reading this thread and salivating... hoping that you are brave enough to come into fel, but satisfied if you are too afraid... either way, they win. either way, they pounce.

this is UO.

this has always been UO.

this will always be UO.

your only decision is WHAT you will do about it. will you leave or stay? run or fight? get pounced or pounce?

i don't know why people haven't figured this out by now, but you either figure it out or you find yourself here beating your head against the wall going crazy... up to you.

I have no fear at all of Fel. My bank holds enough gold to cover my insurance should I get pk'd. My pride is large enough to cover that insurance should I get pk'd and my ego is strong enough to handle getting pk'd in a video game.

For me, fear is not part of the equation. Never has been, never will be. Its about what I prefer to do. I don't prefer to pvp in a game built around items instead of skills. So, I don't take part in that aspect anymore. Should the next dev team make changes in the direction of fixing that part of the game, maybe I will go back to pvp. Prior to AoS my gaming time was spent mostly pvp'ing. Whether it was in Fel or in Trammel guild wars. AoS changed that for me. Now, my time is spent mostly hanging out and rp'ing.

That said, I still support the Fel playstyle. I think offering options like Fel and Trammel is good for the longevity of a game and a good way to keep a larger player base than just offering options for one or the other would.

 

[eccentricjules]

In either case, we give you the tools and as a community you shape your world with them the way you see fit.

Thank you, I really appreciate how you did this. I think it's totally fair to let the community shape the event. It's been a very cooperate event, you can't really do much of it alone. I love it.

 

[eccentricjules]

The more I read this the more questions form in my mind…. What IS a Tram player? What IS a Fel player? Does my shard (Napa Valley) really have Fel players like the other shards? Maybe we’re different somehow. I do my fighting about 50/50 Tram/Fel. Actually maybe slightly more Fel. My castle is in Fel (by choice) it’s also public. I have no red’s and no murder counts. I often go to Yew gate because it’s a place to chat. I will talk to people as battles go on around me… I RARELY get attacked. If I do then often someone else will attack my attacker. Am I just not attacked because the “Fel players” are used to me? A lot of the red players I know also have blues so with things like this Halloween event they are more interested in playing with their blues in Tram because they can play in a larger group. When we have EM events, depending on the event, it’s either cooperative or on Napa we have PVP based events by design so in that case there’s no choice but to be attacked by my red friends. I die, ok, but they didn’t do it for spite it’s part of the game. It’s business, not personal. Again, maybe Napa is unique – or maybe it’s just me? I’ve always just thought of myself as a “player”

My biggest question: What is a “Fel player”?

 

[Tom_Builder]

I think that it's cool that we have the option to end the event ourselfs. I play tram and fel, so far I'm getting more drops in tram (I think I killed more in fel). Either way you have 18 days to get what you can, lets have some fun!!!

Tom

 

[Tjalle]

In either case, we give you the tools and as a community you shape your world with them the way you see fit.

Thank you!

 

[THP]

Personally and talking europa.. although theres a few reds and a few red guilds active ....i doubt very much any totems will be destroyed..on europa !! well legally anyways..

Alas im ''thinking'' so what.. if they did!!...let em!!! if enough Blues wanted this they would ''cream'' the few reds that play still......