Please include Disarm in any new Specials revamp

[CovenantX]

To be honest every person I've asked that was submerged in pvp they quit because things like the 300 combat point change came in, and the patch before that which cut templates that require all kinds of extra things. like when you could have a fighting skill and no tactics to do specials. Or when you could deathstrike with only ninjitsu. Parry without having to high dex. All these changes cut down what became viable in pvp. Never once did I hear anything about disarm which has been around even before aos.

I too know quite a few people who quit playing because of these changes, which is one reason I always bringing up Tactics & Special-Toggling/Spell-casting. all these changes really did was make templates useless/not worth playing, but I have mentioned that many times, and don't feel like going into it much right now, plus it makes me .

I also don't hear much about disarm, but apparently someone has , The thing is I don't see so many melee dexers on LS, there are very few, and they do disarm as much as possible, but it could be because Disarm is probably a melee dexers most effective offense aside from Poisoning, so maybe there is nothing wrong with it. it's still annoying for the record...

However, with a Total-Weapon-Re-balance on the way, it could go from "Annoying" to "Overpowered" quick. so hopefully it's tested thoroughly before it goes live.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I too know quite a few people who quit playing because of these changes, which is one reason I always bringing up Tactics & Special-Toggling/Spell-casting. all these changes really did was make templates useless/not worth playing, but I have mentioned that many times, and don't feel like going into it much right now, plus it makes me .

I also don't hear much about disarm, but apparently someone has , The thing is I don't see so many melee dexers on LS, there are very few, and they do disarm as much as possible, but it could be because Disarm is probably a melee dexers most effective offense aside from Poisoning, so maybe there is nothing wrong with it. it's still annoying for the record...

However, with a Total-Weapon-Re-balance on the way, it could go from "Annoying" to "Overpowered" quick. so hopefully it's tested thoroughly before it goes live.

There are possibly very few because as you say, all the melee dexers you do see chain Disarm. It is a crutch for non-skilled pvpers. It makes anyone with a bit of experience and skill not want to waste the time building the very expensive melee suit/character because all skill basically goes out the window because of one ridiculous move. Think of all the crappy pvp guilds on any shard. Whatever melee dexers they have do nothing but chain disarm and stealth lol.

They say they are going to take a look at stoneform/pro for obvious reasons. Disarm is alot like that. Its an anomaly because it is so defensive it can be overpowered. Kinda a weird catch-22.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I too know quite a few people who quit playing because of these changes, which is one reason I always bringing up Tactics & Special-Toggling/Spell-casting. all these changes really did was make templates useless/not worth playing, but I have mentioned that many times, and don't feel like going into it much right now, plus it makes me .

I also don't hear much about disarm, but apparently someone has , The thing is I don't see so many melee dexers on LS, there are very few, and they do disarm as much as possible, but it could be because Disarm is probably a melee dexers most effective offense aside from Poisoning, so maybe there is nothing wrong with it. it's still annoying for the record...

However, with a Total-Weapon-Re-balance on the way, it could go from "Annoying" to "Overpowered" quick. so hopefully it's tested thoroughly before it goes live.

This is exactly my point. First off that disarm is not what drove the masses away, it was first the toggle change, then the 300 combat point change.

The reason you don't hear much about disarm besides "This guy is just disarming me" is because as I said before it's not over powered. In everyone one of my posts I've given examples of what is over powered and what is annoying. I've also asked for people to talk about the mage weapon and its been avoided everytime for fitting skills that don't pigeon hole mages[yes this isn't disarm, but it was brought up].

The way I took the change is that they are going to change some weapons around so that they have higher base damage, or lower/higher swing speed. Also I always took the change more of they are going to give weapons better special combos. I don't think all of a sudden bleed will tick for 35. I get the feeling its more like specials like force of nature and other not used things will be looked at. I don't see them changing something that has been working fine long before there was trammel[at least one would think it would be looked at in that sort of manner].

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Please listen, I agree with you on alot of things (especially bleed), but lets try and stay on this one subject for now. I am certain I have made my points very clearly, but I can't help but feel like you try and distract from the subject at hand. I will pose 2 questions to you.

Why should a mechanic that can be abused (which does not allow a player to use their character as intended) be allowed to continue to exist unchanged?
and
How is that good for the game?

People have not liked disarm since you would disarm their weapons since before trammel, just because they didn't like it didn't mean it was over powered. Every special can be abused. In the same light I would consider bleed a mechanic that is being abused as it also has no cool down and even if a players hit doesn't strike the bleed tick will disrupt a mage for the duration.

Again, its part of the game, a lot of people probably consider many things mechanics that are absurd. Just because they don't like it doesn't mean its something that's out of control. It's not like concussions, WoD, Nerve strike/poison strike, greater dragons fire breath. Disarm doesn't hit your character for over half life in one hit, and as I said its not as if you can't do anything at all. If that were the case I would agree with you. However, it this instance it's not.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Not sure how this derailed into a complete sc mage wep discussion but as I had a part in it I am also to blame I guess.

I will say that my original point & first 2 sentences in my OP still holds true and is all I was really trying to point out - "Disarm for sure needs to be revamped. It has never been anything other then a crutch for unskilled pvpers.
Nothing else in the game negates an entire template so easily and so quickly. It can be done by a huge variety of other templates and can be chained"

I dont think anyone can honestly disagree with this and i KNOW that nobody has made a point to disprove it in this thread.

I think that even Speaking The Truth would agree that while the Mage is also at a huge disadvantage with his sc mage disarmed, the warrior is still at much more of a disadvantage and almost totally helpless. Sure, there are always work-arounds and bandaids for this but I dont think anyone should have to change an entire template and sacrifice valauable skill points needed against an entire class to defend against something so one sided and easily chainable.
It really has come to the point now in pvp that people are not even logging on a variety of different warriors because disarm is so potent and senseless at the same time.
All night long I get disarmed by other warriors even before they take 1 damage point. Seriously? It just creates an anti fight environment because you start just leaving the screen when you know your opponent has no chance to kill you yet just keeps chaining Disarm. On the flip side though once you get disarmed by a gank squad it is almost instant death. I kill mages in the field and all of a sudden they are ranting in chat that they want to meet in the arena and when i show up they are now on their alternate mage who has disarm. Really? That right there is an indication of how overpowered the move is.

Well people can disagree, I for one do -also you haven't ignored all my examples on things and suggestions for what you can do since you're having so much trouble living in pvp.

No a warrior is not totally helpless, again it's not like the warrior loses connection when he's disarmed. What you're not grasping is I'm not saying you HAVE to do that, I'm saying it's an option that can deter people from doing that when they see what happens every time they disarm you and you do it right back.

You say disarm is so potent, what about throwers that can hit for 28+ on a regular hit + double hit spell? I see that as a problem being 11 tiles away over a disarm someone has to get next to you to hit you.

Again you're talking about a gank squad. Its the fact that you're being attacked by many people, not the fact that you can possibly be disarmed.

Also in a gank situation what would it change? So you get dismounted and someone hits a disarm if you're fighting top tier pvpers who know what they're doing, then you're going to be dead. A timer isn't going to make a lick of difference.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Every special can be abused. In the same light I would consider bleed a mechanic that is being abused as it also has no cool down and even if a players hit doesn't strike the bleed tick will disrupt a mage for the duration.

Once again, I agree with you Disarm and Bleed Attack are both in the same category. I have stated it multiple times and it is included in Weapon Special Move Review | Stratics: A Career Path in Gaming and any special that can be abused should be looked at.

I feel like you side-stepped the questions, probably because the answers are obvious.

Why should a mechanic that can be abused (which does not allow a player to use their character as intended) be allowed to continue to exist unchanged?
and
How is that good for the game?

 

[Picus of Napa]

The sales pitch that is mage weapons add diversity is grand and great but it's still the largest crutch that any skill has ever been given in the game. Toggle with spell and no tactics needed was another stupid move that should have been removed before it ever hit the publish. Give magery and other casting skills the chance to be effective but they don't need the whole farm.

You want to see people freak out take away tactics needed if you have spend 300 points on other dexxer related skills. That would level the field I suspect.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Well people can disagree, I for one do -also you haven't ignored all my examples on things and suggestions for what you can do since you're having so much trouble living in pvp.

No a warrior is not totally helpless, again it's not like the warrior loses connection when he's disarmed. What you're not grasping is I'm not saying you HAVE to do that, I'm saying it's an option that can deter people from doing that when they see what happens every time they disarm you and you do it right back.

You say disarm is so potent, what about throwers that can hit for 28+ on a regular hit + double hit spell? I see that as a problem being 11 tiles away over a disarm someone has to get next to you to hit you.

Again you're talking about a gank squad. Its the fact that you're being attacked by many people, not the fact that you can possibly be disarmed.

Also in a gank situation what would it change? So you get dismounted and someone hits a disarm if you're fighting top tier pvpers who know what they're doing, then you're going to be dead. A timer isn't going to make a lick of difference.

I seriously feel sorry for you bud
Bringing Throwers into the thread now?
You are so obviously mage biased that you will say anything lol. Its really pathetic.

What you have not understood and/or chosen to ignore from the first 2 sentences in this thread is that the Disarm move when used against a warrior is the most crippling move in the history of UO.
Whether or not the actual move does any damage is irrelevant. Whether it is 1vs1 or a gank is irrelevant. Nothing else in the game negates an entire template of skillpoints like the Disarm move. Period.

I am sure that you will not be able to follow this but I am going to lay it out for you.

How does a warrrior do damage? From a weapon.

How does a mage do damage? From casting spells. Are you still with me?

When a warrior is disamed(and chain disarmed. lather,rinse,repeat)how is he doing damage? He isnt. He is now completely unable to do any amount of damage that will matter.

When a mages sc mage weapon is disarmed how is the mage doing damage? Uhh, by casting spells and using his combos as always. Since both the mage and the warrior are equally defenseless when disarmed the fact that the mage can now be hit more is irrelevant as so can the warrior be hit more.

Did you get any of this mr. truth?

Do you not understand that the mage, and basically every class other then the warrior, can be fully offensive when disarmed?

*shakes head* I should have known you were a total kook when you kept trying to pretend you knew who i was ingame and kept calling me a zerg pvper lol.

 

[Nyses]

If warriors had a weapon special that acted like the Dryads "calming" effect for 5 or 6 seconds on spell casters, that would be the equivalent of the disarm special on warriors. I think that would be more balanced.

Or if Warriors could have an item like a shield or weapon that gave them the ability to use their Tactics to equate to Chivalry, that would also be fair, and provide more warrior template diversity.

But, to the original point of the post, yes! there should be some sort of timer on disarm, or a chance that your own weapon gets disarmed instead. Not just a disarm spam fest, after all if you are a warrior with tactics, 120 weapon skill, massive strength and dex, why would a wrestle mage or another warrior disarm you THAT easily?

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Once again, I agree with you Disarm and Bleed Attack are both in the same category. I have stated it multiple times and it is included in Weapon Special Move Review | Stratics: A Career Path in Gaming and any special that can be abused should be looked at.

I feel like you side-stepped the questions, probably because the answers are obvious.

Why should a mechanic that can be abused (which does not allow a player to use their character as intended) be allowed to continue to exist unchanged?
and
How is that good for the game?

No I did answer it, but like you I will say the same thing since you missed it Champ!

People have not liked disarm since you would disarm their weapons since before trammel, just because they didn't like it didn't mean it was over powered. Every special can be abused. In the same light I would consider bleed a mechanic that is being abused as it also has no cool down and even if a players hit doesn't strike the bleed tick will disrupt a mage for the duration.

Again, its part of the game, a lot of people probably consider many things mechanics that are absurd. Just because they don't like it doesn't mean its something that's out of control. It's not like concussions, WoD, Nerve strike/poison strike, greater dragons fire breath. Disarm doesn't hit your character for over half life in one hit, and as I said its not as if you can't do anything at all. If that were the case I would agree with you. However, it this instance it's not.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

I did not give you a copy and paste response and my question has still not been answered accurately by you. I am going to respectfully bow out of this discussion with you, because you do not seem to want to address the issue at hand with the same level of understanding. I feel like I have made my points clearly and respectfully enough in my posts that I do not need to defend the topic anymore. It is obvious that the vast majority of posters feel a similar way to me on the issue and will wish you luck in your future discussions on this topic.

However the devs feel on the issue I will need to accept, thank you for your time.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

If warriors had a weapon special that acted like the Dryads "calming" effect for 5 or 6 seconds on spell casters, that would be the equivalent of the disarm special on warriors. I think that would be more balanced.

Or if Warriors could have an item like a shield or weapon that gave them the ability to use their Tactics to equate to Chivalry, that would also be fair, and provide more warrior template diversity.

But, to the original point of the post, yes! there should be some sort of timer on disarm, or a chance that your own weapon gets disarmed instead. Not just a disarm spam fest, after all if you are a warrior with tactics, 120 weapon skill, massive strength and dex, why would a wrestle mage or another warrior disarm you THAT easily?

Except a mage wouldn't be able to do anything, a warrior wouldn't be able to swing with his wep for 5 seconds, he can still bandages ect, big difference. Also disarm effects mages just the same. Whether its a mage wep, a fighting skill wep, a mage book with sdi, it still has an effect on them as well, it's not a one way street.

Also to answer your question because everyone else you're fighting also has massive str dex and 120 in a fighting skill.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I seriously feel sorry for you bud
Bringing Throwers into the thread now?
You are so obviously mage biased that you will say anything lol. Its really pathetic.

What you have not understood and/or chosen to ignore from the first 2 sentences in this thread is that the Disarm move when used against a warrior is the most crippling move in the history of UO.
Whether or not the actual move does any damage is irrelevant. Whether it is 1vs1 or a gank is irrelevant. Nothing else in the game negates an entire template of skillpoints like the Disarm move. Period.

I am sure that you will not be able to follow this but I am going to lay it out for you.

How does a warrrior do damage? From a weapon.

How does a mage do damage? From casting spells. Are you still with me?

When a warrior is disamed(and chain disarmed. lather,rinse,repeat)how is he doing damage? He isnt. He is now completely unable to do any amount of damage that will matter.

When a mages sc mage weapon is disarmed how is the mage doing damage? Uhh, by casting spells and using his combos as always. Since both the mage and the warrior are equally defenseless when disarmed the fact that the mage can now be hit more is irrelevant as so can the warrior be hit more.

Did you get any of this mr. truth?

Do you not understand that the mage, and basically every class other then the warrior, can be fully offensive when disarmed?

*shakes head* I should have known you were a total kook when you kept trying to pretend you knew who i was ingame and kept calling me a zerg pvper lol.

No I'm just against a change that has no substance, I've give you example after example of things that have been changed for good cause. You on the other hand bring up that its bad players that use it. If they are so bad you should kill them. You have also not come up with a concrete reason why it should be changed other than you don't like it and it makes you sad .

Nothing else? How about mana vamp on zero resist templates? That would cripple it even worse, now they can't do any specials or cast any spells. Disarm does damage to mages as well, SC mage wep, Fighting skill, Spell book with sdi[casing their damage to be reduced]. When all these are out a mages hand he is in the same boat as a dexer, except not only will he not have a chance to go offense, but also he will get hit almost everytime and doesn't have bandages to use on the run since a mage would have to stop and cast making him an easy target.

Your argument doesn't hold water. A mage would be just as vulnerable with a mage wep, fighting skill [just like a warrior]. How can a mage do damage if they are disarmed? Now they are getting hit every time so they can't go offense. Guess what, they are also now doing zero damage! I don't know how you're getting that a mage is just throwing combos while disarmed without any disruptions.

No, that's not the case that every other class besides a warrior can be fully offensive when disarmed. That's why when a mage gets disarmed he runs around and doesn't stand in one place. If that were the case you'd just see mages casting spinning in circles as they could care less that they are disarmed. Funny I've never seen that approach in 15 years of pvp.

I brought up throwers because you were talking about disarm being so staggering in pvp, I gave you a real example of something that needs to be addressed[I say this as the devs agree and have stated it does], unlike disarm.

Hahaha Yes if you say so trips, no one knows who you are or how you play.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I did not give you a copy and paste response and my question has still not been answered accurately by you. I am going to respectfully bow out of this discussion with you, because you do not seem to want to address the issue at hand with the same level of understanding. I feel like I have made my points clearly and respectfully enough in my posts that I do not need to defend the topic anymore. It is obvious that the vast majority of posters feel a similar way to me on the issue and will wish you luck in your future discussions on this topic.

However the devs feel on the issue I will need to accept, thank you for your time.

I answered it clear as day[twice].
No, thank you for your time on this discussion! Much appreciated.

 

[Picus at the office]

Except a mage wouldn't be able to do anything, a warrior wouldn't be able to swing with his wep for 5 seconds, he can still bandages ect, big difference. Also disarm effects mages just the same. Whether its a mage wep, a fighting skill wep, a mage book with sdi, it still has an effect on them as well, it's not a one way street.

Also to answer your question because everyone else you're fighting also has massive str dex and 120 in a fighting skill.

With those extra 120 skill points you could add healing into your casting temp and then you are in the same boat as the dexxer.

A mage book with SDI is far from the same, it's at best a extra 4 points of damage unless your are silly enough to need the FCR which would be poor suit building. Which really is the same as saying that the mage weapon is needed for the bonus it gives, which is not the case right?

 

[Speaking the Truth]

With those extra 120 skill points you could add healing into your casting temp and then you are in the same boat as the dexxer.

A mage book with SDI is far from the same, it's at best a extra 4 points of damage unless your are silly enough to need the FCR which would be poor suit building. Which really is the same as saying that the mage weapon is needed for the bonus it gives, which is not the case right?

Again, holding a mage weapon is like a UBW, it's an equivalent. I don't have a cap of 840 when I hold it to add healing. On top of which healing on a mage would be 8 seconds with a mages dex, not worth it, even if you're hypothetical situation that makes no sense.

So yes or no to this question then... Are you saying disarming a mage weapon, a wep, or a book that has mods on it doesn't negatively affect said target? Because I am saying that it does.

Edit: Just to cover the 120 skill points, and really drive the point home. The only way a mage can play some variety is with a mage wep and you're crammed for skill points as it is. Again if you'd like to show me how you can make a necro mage with healing now from your example without giving up everything a pvper would have, or a full ninja stealth mage, i'd love to hear it so everyone can see how to add healing easily to these templates. Please include the template and don't avoid this like goldberg already did, thanks ace!

 

[Picus at the office]

I can't see why you would want to play a stealth mage unless you want to hide from a fight but here we go:
120 Magery
120 Eval
120 Stealth cause you are a "full" player
120 Med
120 Weapon skill
100 hiding
Total skill points 700 so you even have a free 20 points to focus.

Delete stealth and hiding for necro and SS. Where is the issue and why the need for the free points on the mage weapon?

Disarming a book should do nothing unless you are needing the stuff on the book in which case you are running wrestling already so no issue anyways. If you are using a weapon skill you are in the same situation as the rest of us and if you are using a -mage weapon than you have free points to spend on wrestling like you said the rest of us should do.

Please bring thicker smoke to blow ace.

 

[Nyses]

Except a mage wouldn't be able to do anything, a warrior wouldn't be able to swing with his wep for 5 seconds, he can still bandages ect, big difference. Also disarm effects mages just the same. Whether its a mage wep, a fighting skill wep, a mage book with sdi, it still has an effect on them as well, it's not a one way street.

Also to answer your question because everyone else you're fighting also has massive str dex and 120 in a fighting skill.

Your assuming the warrior has healing and the mage does not. If a mage had healing, he could also still bandage while calmed, I see it as the same.

Disarm nullifies a warrior melee skill, removing both his attack and defense. Calm would nullify a Spell casters casting ability, both attack and defense. If a mage had other skills such as healing, that would not be affected.

And yes, you can dissarm a mage, but that does not affect his ability to cast spells, for offense and defense.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Your assuming the warrior has healing and the mage does not. If a mage had healing, he could also still bandage while calmed, I see it as the same.

Disarm nullifies a warrior melee skill, removing both his attack and defense. Calm would nullify a Spell casters casting ability, both attack and defense. If a mage had other skills such as healing, that would not be affected.

And yes, you can dissarm a mage, but that does not affect his ability to cast spells, for offense and defense.

Yes it does, get a mage that has a mage weapon, disarm him and have a dexer on him, both his offense and defense will be shot as he is getting disrupted left and right.

I just said you can't fit healing on most of these templates so I'm not sure where he's getting that from. The trade off with a mage weapon is it the only way to let you play a lot of templates, but it can be disarmed. You wouldn't be able to put healing on said mage templates if you pvp[Again mage weps don't grant you + 120 skill points], so healing doesn't make sense for what he's saying, on top of the fact that its a heal thats 2x longer than a dexers[which is counter productive to use then it would not get rid of bleeds early like for dexers, or poison].

 

[Nyses]

Um, ok, we could go back and forth all day long over this, but back to the original point of the thread, Disarm as it is now could use a revamp. The fact you can simply spam it and there is no counter to it or cool down makes disarm spam fights lame. They all boil down to disarm - run, whether you are a mage or a warrior. The move does not promote fighting. It gets used in ganks, but you should not need it to win a 2v1 or 3v1 fight.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Yes it does, get a mage that has a mage weapon, disarm him and have a dexer on him, both his offense and defense will be shot as he is getting disrupted left and right.

I just said you can't fit healing on most of these templates so I'm not sure where he's getting that from. The trade off with a mage weapon is it the only way to let you play a lot of templates, but it can be disarmed. You wouldn't be able to put healing on said mage templates if you pvp[Again mage weps don't grant you + 120 skill points], so healing doesn't make sense for what he's saying, on top of the fact that its a heal thats 2x longer than a dexers[which is counter productive to use then it would not get rid of bleeds early like for dexers, or poison].

As usual you are trying to mislead with nonsense.

It was clearly stated that a warrior has ZERO offensive ability when Disarmed. That was the OP and is still quite correct. Your argument is that a disarmed mage with a mage wep (his choice btw to not have a real defensive skill such as wrestling which fits on multiple mage templates) is in the exact same position as the warrior and you are completely wrong. The warrior CANNOT do damage because he cannot equip the weapon for many seconds. Even taking disrupt into account the mage can still cast all his spells(and you would see this being done all night at the gate if you ever pvped)

What makes your argument even more ridiculous though is you are leaving out the fact that most mages fighting a warrior 1 vs 1 cast protection the instant they feel threatened and now cannot be disrupted.

*shakes head*

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I can't see why you would want to play a stealth mage unless you want to hide from a fight but here we go:
120 Magery
120 Eval
120 Stealth cause you are a "full" player
120 Med
120 Weapon skill
100 hiding
Total skill points 700 so you even have a free 20 points to focus.

Delete stealth and hiding for necro and SS. Where is the issue and why the need for the free points on the mage weapon?

Disarming a book should do nothing unless you are needing the stuff on the book in which case you are running wrestling already so no issue anyways. If you are using a weapon skill you are in the same situation as the rest of us and if you are using a -mage weapon than you have free points to spend on wrestling like you said the rest of us should do.

Please bring thicker smoke to blow ace.

For deathstrike[you know that thing you don't do while you're hiding] you need ninja and it misses even at 120, so you forgot that, and also I said for pvp, you have not included resist. so yes that won't fit without a mage wep. Good try though sport! You were short on that template by only 240 skill points with that set up! But that was a rock solid template you set up.

I can only assume you don't pvp often[if at all] if you're trying to build a template without 120 resist, especially if you pvp in a smaller group. Why would a mage want to be vulnerable to mana vamp [ there goes your Offense and defense], para, and sleep lasting full durations, as well as poisons from mages landing everytime?

Same goes for a necro, you have no idea what you're talking about for pvp.

Who would wear a book that gives no bonus[so you would lose a bonus wearing a book if it were disarmed]? I like that you, much like goldberg, did not answer my question- in this instance about whether or not having the items I listed disarmed was a negative action to that player. Again a SC wep or a SC mage wep, are both in the same position. Do me a favor go throw a mage wep on your char, open the skills tab, then click show real. Next post a picture to show us that you do indeed have a higher skill cap as you claim. We all want to see 840 on a screen shot and then your case will hold water.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Um, ok, we could go back and forth all day long over this, but back to the original point of the thread, Disarm as it is now could use a revamp. The fact you can simply spam it and there is no counter to it or cool down makes disarm spam fights lame. They all boil down to disarm - run, whether you are a mage or a warrior. The move does not promote fighting. It gets used in ganks, but you should not need it to win a 2v1 or 3v1 fight.

You've not provided any argument other than you don't like it. It doesn't need a revamp as it's not hitting for half health like concussion, it's not on ranged attacks. You can simply spam every special, just because I don't like how bleed disrupts a mage, or how strong poison is and can be spammed for 3 mana, that's hardly grounds for it to be revamped. A lot of moves get used in ganks, so maybe we should do away with armor ignore and dismount also? Is there any move that "promotes" fighting? Please explain to me how bleed, infectious strike, armor ignore and dismount encourage a fight.

 

[Picus at the office]

You said a stealth mage, not a DS stealth mage. You asked for it and I gave it. I was under the impression that you needed to hide and stealth hence the no resist, my mistake as I had convinced myself that with the crutch of a mage weap you were the sort to smoke bomb and stealth off at the first sign of defeat or why else would you have hiding and stealth on a mage...

Twist it anyway you want the mage weapon is 100+ skill points you DO NOT HAVE to spend on a weapon skill hence it is the same as having those points free to use elsewhere like resist. I have and do run plenty of chars with and without 120 resist. No one ever mana vamps anymore, hardly anyone sleeps and my box has cleared up para every time in the last 8 years. I carry 40 cure pots and no one casts poison anymore either save for 1v1 mage fight. The only thing that resist works for even slightly the way it did pre pub 16 is unknown.

Don't tell me to PvP, you are so stuck in the ages of making a new gimp that you have not moved on to bigger and better.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

As usual you are trying to mislead with nonsense.

It was clearly stated that a warrior has ZERO offensive ability when Disarmed. That was the OP and is still quite correct. Your argument is that a disarmed mage with a mage wep (his choice btw to not have a real defensive skill such as wrestling which fits on multiple mage templates) is in the exact same position as the warrior and you are completely wrong. The warrior CANNOT do damage because he cannot equip the weapon for many seconds. Even taking disrupt into account the mage can still cast all his spells(and you would see this being done all night at the gate if you ever pvped)

What makes your argument even more ridiculous though is you are leaving out the fact that most mages fighting a warrior 1 vs 1 cast protection the instant they feel threatened and now cannot be disrupted.

*shakes head*

Well that's not true at all. I listed a plethora of options you can do, and that wasn't including wrestling as an extra form of disrupt. So you're using extremes saying it's all or nothing and that's not the case. Your main source is stopped for 5 seconds[while you maintain all other options which are quite a few], not forever as you are making it out to be, and you're able to still use other skills on the 5 seconds of disarm.

What you don't realize is you are making the same point I am. You are arguing FOR me. My whole point is that its any and every ones choice what they put on their template, and they know the consequences. I know that on my mage w/ Weps[SC or Mage wep SC] can possibly be disarmed. I realize that I could put wrestling on if I felt the need so that my dexer or mage could disarm back, and its a personal choice if I do or don't. There is a reason I'm not complaining about it. UO has given us all the same opportunities to think outside the box and do what we see fit.

A mage also takes a physical resistance penalty on top of the fact that their casting is greatly reduced. If you can't kill a mage in protection[sitting duck to a good pvper] you have issues, especially since the way you've described it you probably play a thrower[as you have such a huge problem with disarm, its as powerful as WoD or so you make it out to be].

Also sometimes protection is needed for a mage. Unlike a dexer, a hit fireball going off on a weapon doesn't ruin their swing[where as a mage not in protection gets double disrupted]. There are many things in game that hurt a mage much more than a dexer, hence why mages are more difficult to play, and a lot of novice players use throwing to make up for lack of skill.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

You said a stealth mage, not a DS stealth mage. You asked for it and I gave it. I was under the impression that you needed to hide and stealth hence the no resist, my mistake as I had convinced myself that with the crutch of a mage weap you were the sort to smoke bomb and stealth off at the first sign of defeat or why else would you have hiding and stealth on a mage...

Twist it anyway you want the mage weapon is 100+ skill points you DO NOT HAVE to spend on a weapon skill hence it is the same as having those points free to use elsewhere like resist. I have and do run plenty of chars with and without 120 resist. No one ever mana vamps anymore, hardly anyone sleeps and my box has cleared up para every time in the last 8 years. I carry 40 cure pots and no one casts poison anymore either save for 1v1 mage fight. The only thing that resist works for even slightly the way it did pre pub 16 is unknown.

Don't tell me to PvP, you are so stuck in the ages of making a new gimp that you have not moved on to bigger and better.

I said for a pvp character, when someone says a full stealth mage, they mean hiding stealth and ninjitsu.

Twist it anyway I want? So is this saying that I am right and your skills are capped at 720 just like mine? That when you added a mage wep to your character your skill cap didn't increase? Just as I suspected..

So you epically failed on making that template possible without a mage weapon. Hmmm weird its like I said before where there are plethora of other templates just like that which are not possible without the item that has been in game for over a decade. Now let me think if they were to get rid of them that would....limit the number of templates people can play? Wow that's crazy how accurate I was.

It's just like UBW using points you have to give you an equivalent, there is no twisting that. You have no shown me a way that I was incorrect. Do you need one skill for UBW to use it? Yes. Do you need one skill for mage weps to use it? Yes.

If you think that resist doesn't make a difference and no one uses sleep or para, you must be playing on a shard where pvp does not exist, or as I said that you are either A bad at pvp, or B don't pvp at all. I got to that conclusion the second I told you it was a pvp char and the template didn't include ninjitsu or resist. If you'd like we can go on test and I go show you how a mage would pvp and that any smart mage will always test resist right off the bat.

That's the thing, I'm not telling you TO pvp, I'm telling you that like I said before, either you don't, or you do and you're bad. Which I had a hunch based on what you said before. The ages of making gimps? I guess any mage that's been new since aos is "gimp"? If you think it's so bad and you can't handle people being creative, perhaps a pub 16 shard is what you need, just saying[careful though, those servers also have disarm just like pre aos!].

 

[Mentiras]

Some people are logic immune. No matter what facts you bring to the table, they will insist that your blue pen is red. My suggestion to the level headed gentlemen in this thread is to talk around anyone who tries to derail the original topic. Stick to disarm and disarm only.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Some people are logic immune. No matter what facts you bring to the table, they will insist that your blue pen is red. My suggestion to the level headed gentlemen in this thread is to talk around anyone who tries to derail the original topic. Stick to disarm and disarm only.

We can try bud, we can try. However when I include examples of how something is over powered vs something is annoying they don't have anything to say besides the fact of they can't do anything at all what so ever [which is NOT the case]. We are given this illusion that you are frozen in place and not do anything at else[at least thats how dramatic 3 people have made it seem], all tied into this woe is me attitude.

One can't do anything when people have no logic, especially when they are presented with example after example. But I will keep fighting the good fight.

 

[puni666]

It's always been my belief that Any Combat Skill + Tactics Skill/2 = Combat Defense (Armed or Not). Sure having 120 in a combat skill will give you the best base attack chance, but shorting it with 90 Tactics will only give you a 105 Combat Defense Rating. But that's just me. I also believe that you should be able to disarm shields after you successfully disarm a weapon. *shrug*

 

[Nyses]

You've not provided any argument other than you don't like it. It doesn't need a revamp as it's not hitting for half health like concussion, it's not on ranged attacks. You can simply spam every special, just because I don't like how bleed disrupts a mage, or how strong poison is and can be spammed for 3 mana, that's hardly grounds for it to be revamped. A lot of moves get used in ganks, so maybe we should do away with armor ignore and dismount also? Is there any move that "promotes" fighting? Please explain to me how bleed, infectious strike, armor ignore and dismount encourage a fight.

OK, I will use clear examples so this will be easy to understand.

If you are playing a warrior and in a fight/gank, you get dissarmed, you have 2 choices. One is run and hope to re-arm in time, the second is to stand there and die.

If you are a Mage, using a Mage weapon in a fight/gank and you get dissarmed, you have a lot of choices. One is to run. One is to stand and die, another is to cast protection and go on attacking or healing. One is to Teleport or Invis, the list goes on.

As for your list regarding the other weapon specials in a fight, AI is simple damage and can be healed thru, Bleed and poison can both be countered and healed thru, Dismount sucks but can be countered. None of these specials takes away a characters ability to attack or defend completely, like disarm does, which is the point of the thread.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

OK, I will use clear examples so this will be easy to understand.

If you are playing a warrior and in a fight/gank, you get dissarmed, you have 2 choices. One is run and hope to re-arm in time, the second is to stand there and die.

If you are a Mage, using a Mage weapon in a fight/gank and you get dissarmed, you have a lot of choices. One is to run. One is to stand and die, another is to cast protection and go on attacking or healing. One is to Teleport or Invis, the list goes on.

As for your list regarding the other weapon specials in a fight, AI is simple damage and can be healed thru, Bleed and poison can both be countered and healed thru, Dismount sucks but can be countered. None of these specials takes away a characters ability to attack or defend completely, like disarm does, which is the point of the thread.

No a mage that uses a mage weapon can not just stand there, I guess being hit on top of hit delay spells isn't phasing him according to you?They have to stop to cast any of the things you said, while they stop and they have no weapon they are going to get hit, and if you have a hit spell that's delayed they will take a double disrupt. If a dexer is disarmed, he can teleport and invis, both come on instant items[even better than a mage who has to stop and have a casting time] a dexer can couter the poison and bleed even better on the run with less time. Unless you are trying to claim like goldberg that a disarmed player can't do ANYTHING at all. Every special can be countered, dismount get ninja, disarm get wrestle ect so acting like they can't is funny. There is a reason this special has been around longer than any other and not been tweaked like stun to para. It's stood the test of time for a reason.

If a mage stands still in protection while disarmed he is going to get destroyed if you're any good on a dexer.

Also if you you are that worried about disarm, you still have the option to put wrestling on your template. Voila, now you don't have to worry about being disarmed since it's too much for you to handle.

You guys need a better argument than what you're providing. It's not broken, it doesn't hit for 80+. I'm sorry you don't like being disarmed, but that's not a solid argument. Again I provided you with a way that a dexer can do everything a mage can, but without casting time and free of mana. Also a way that doesn't require you to stop moving like a mage.

 

[Picus of Napa]

So again the real issue that you are trying to defend is the mage weapon and your loss of the gimpness it brings. Get wrestling Ace.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

OK, I will use clear examples so this will be easy to understand.

If you are playing a warrior and in a fight/gank, you get dissarmed, you have 2 choices. One is run and hope to re-arm in time, the second is to stand there and die.

If you are a Mage, using a Mage weapon in a fight/gank and you get dissarmed, you have a lot of choices. One is to run. One is to stand and die, another is to cast protection and go on attacking or healing. One is to Teleport or Invis, the list goes on.

As for your list regarding the other weapon specials in a fight, AI is simple damage and can be healed thru, Bleed and poison can both be countered and healed thru, Dismount sucks but can be countered. None of these specials takes away a characters ability to attack or defend completely, like disarm does, which is the point of the thread.

Dont waste your time bud. He just doesnt get it and even if he did he is so mage biased it wouldnt make a difference.

So far his version of speaking the truth is:

1) sc mage weps are the same as and balance out UBW weps. Seriously? You already have the defense invested in your 120 weapon skill points. You are simply switching a weapn type. This is the same as the mage doing nothing more then equipping an easily obtained godmode weapon to turn his 120 magery into what? A warriors weapon defense. Yeah, thats equal and makes alot of sense lmao.

2) sc mage weps are in the game to promote 'template diversity' - "Mage weps are the only way that all these different templates can exist"
He honestly believes that his mage should be the only class in the game that doesnt have to use 100-120 precious skill points on an actual defense against weapons. Its ok that his 120 resist is mandatory on warrior templates though lol.
Template diversity is the gimpest phrase in the history of UO. It is the same phrase that losers have been repeating since day one of UO when anything gets changed. Every new patch/publish you hear the whiners start by saying all their templates are no good anymore and uo is ruined. What a joke. If you listen close enough you can still hear all the losers complaining about the JOAT 300 skill point mana change lol. Its odd though because when it happened they all said that uo was ruined and they were quitting because they had no templates to play. Yet all night long you see a huge variety of different templates at the gate and spawns.

3) Disarm is okay because it doesnt do 80 points of damage. So ridiculous it doesnt even warrant a comment.

4) He "listed a plethora of options you can do" to combat disarm. I just re-read the entire post and not once did he list anything other then to get Wrestling. "Yes I do believe a disarmed warrior especially with wrestilng can chase around and disrupt a mage"
Possibly the dumbest sentence ever posted on Stratics lol.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

So again the real issue that you are trying to defend is the mage weapon and your loss of the gimpness it brings. Get wrestling Ace.

That makes no sense, unlike you I acknowledge the fact that if I have a mage weapon it can be disarmed over and over, and I"m not complaining especially since that's the only way half these templates will work. I'm the one that's been saying it's an option to have it. You realize I've been one saying wrestle is an option the whole time so you're just arguing for me now, so thank you.

Hey sparky, can you set me up with that full ninja mage template that you said is possible without a mage wep? LOLOL
Boy that was one of the funniest posts/templates I've seen on far off you were with everything on top of not possibly being more wrong haha.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Dont waste your time bud. He just doesnt get it and even if he did he is so mage biased it wouldnt make a difference.

So far his version of speaking the truth is:

1) sc mage weps are the same as and balance out UBW weps. Seriously? You already have the defense invested in your 120 weapon skill points. You are simply switching a weapn type. This is the same as the mage doing nothing more then equipping an easily obtained godmode weapon to turn his 120 magery into what? A warriors weapon defense. Yeah, thats equal and makes alot of sense lmao.

2) sc mage weps are in the game to promote 'template diversity' - "Mage weps are the only way that all these different templates can exist"
He honestly believes that his mage should be the only class in the game that doesnt have to use 100-120 precious skill points on an actual defense against weapons. Its ok that his 120 resist is mandatory on warrior templates though lol.
Template diversity is the gimpest phrase in the history of UO. It is the same phrase that losers have been repeating since day one of UO when anything gets changed. Every new patch/publish you hear the whiners start by saying all their templates are no good anymore and uo is ruined. What a joke. If you listen close enough you can still hear all the losers complaining about the JOAT 300 skill point mana change lol. Its odd though because when it happened they all said that uo was ruined and they were quitting because they had no templates to play. Yet all night long you see a huge variety of different templates at the gate and spawns.

3) Disarm is okay because it doesnt do 80 points of damage. So ridiculous it doesnt even warrant a comment.

4) He "listed a plethora of options you can do" to combat disarm. I just re-read the entire post and not once did he list anything other then to get Wrestling. "Yes I do believe a disarmed warrior especially with wrestilng can chase around and disrupt a mage"
Possibly the dumbest sentence ever posted on Stratics lol.

How is it not the same? You get to use a weapon that you don't have the skill for by getting an equivalent from another skill. Both templates require skill to be used for the other. God mode weapon? I hate to burst your bubble but you're implying that it is impossible to die based on what weapon someone is wielding. I have yet to kill someone because of the weapon they are holding.

Actually its the other way around, dexers can get away with zero resist, mages can not. However any good pvper will have resist. A mage can't do anything without mana, a dexer can still deal damage, and heal.

My mage does need skill points for the weapon to work, the same as a dexer using UBW. You make it sound as though you can toss a mage wep on without magery and you're good to go.

You don't see template diversity with the changes. Thats why you see people saying you don't see pure warriors anymore. Whens the last time you saw an archer tamer? a pure archer?Chiv dexers [i've seen two and the set up you're forced with is really bad]? Pure swords mans? You don't see any of those because you can't obtain the 300 combat change. That's why the dexers you see now a days are some variation of a stealther, a thrower[not only easy to obtain 300 combat points but over powered to give pvpers a chance to compete lol]. The only other templates in pvp that would also be around that you hardly ever see is a bushido char[which no one uses because if dismounted you're in trouble], and an archer fencer with ninja for form[but a vast majority of people that played that switched to throwers.

Clearly you didn't re read, I gave you multiple options. I guess you'll ignore easy summons you can get, all types of different pots, ninja darts and stars ect. Your reading comprehension needs improvement.

So again there are options you just don't like to be disarmed it makes you so mad that it stops your offense for a few seconds, lets get rid of it all together since I don't like it!!! hahah just stomping your feet and pouting. You have no argument other than that, disarm stops a lot of people from doing things for a few seconds, sorry you don't like it : (

 

[Picus at the office]

Truelly I fail to see how you expect to really run a "full" ninja, stealth mage on one temp. How unbalanced is that in the first place? Granted logic has to be dispelled in the first place to play this game but to really expect a spell caster to also be some amazing ninja death bringing superman is beyond anything even close to logical. Personally, I just couldn't bring myself to play such a temp for the absurdness of it but each to his own.

No one cares or needs the 300 points to make a char more than effective enough to kill multiple people.

I'll leave this thread to die as there is clearly no chance that you will admit that it's a complete screw up in the first place a a mage weapon was ever added to the game let alone one handed or with the option to be imbued. Two handed non imbued no one would care but for players such as your self I suspect that without a crutch you'd be running off to hide behind another rock.

 

[Capt.E]

Mage templates are handicapped against dexxer templates. Thus the Mage weapon. It's as simple as that. Even if a Mage has wrestle, Mage dex is like 20. The penalty for a -mage weapon is -15 or -20 skill points. Which means 1 property with -15 weapon, which are really high end and hard to obtain. Or 2 properties (or forced into crystalline ring). So now the Mage suit is limited. The faction Arties eliminated many of the handicaps this brought about. They had tons of dci (25 on a piece with really good stats and resists) and fcr on a ring that has awesome stats. Without these artis Mage suits are forced into losing hpr or HP increase or something that can help them, in order to get enough dci and fcr for the template. People hated this.

Dexxers get equally powerful artis. The list is long, but things like +20 skill cloaks and ssi on armor come to mind.

Sorry for responds in derailers.

Disarm can be repeatedly spammed. The only tactics you need to overcome this is moving. It's simple, I'm a Mage I get disarmed, I move between casts or kite the dexxer. I'm a dexxer, I get disarmed , I run around in a circle until I get my weapon setup back. If you setup the template and suit right you should hit 50% of the time, so I theoretically should get 2 or sometimes 3 in a row. It's what you do with those 2 to 3 hit runs that really matter. If you disarm them, they will run. It's unlikely you will get a kill.

I fail to see how this is overpowering. It's disarm, it only lasts 5 seconds, and they have to run and hit you 3 to 4 more times before you are dead.

 

[ShadowTrauma]

Disarm can be repeatedly spammed. The only tactics you need to overcome this is moving. It's simple, I'm a Mage I get disarmed, I move between casts or kite the dexxer. I'm a dexxer, I get disarmed , I run around in a circle until I get my weapon setup back. If you setup the template and suit right you should hit 50% of the time, so I theoretically should get 2 or sometimes 3 in a row. It's what you do with those 2 to 3 hit runs that really matter. If you disarm them, they will run. It's unlikely you will get a kill.

I fail to see how this is overpowering. It's disarm, it only lasts 5 seconds, and they have to run and hit you 3 to 4 more times before you are dead.

I appreciate your level headed response and hope you can understand where some of us are comming from. Disarm is not overpowered in the sense that once you do it you are always guaranteed to win, its that there is no tactical skill involved when all you have to do is continually Disarm warriors to shut them down (similar to bleed spam). Everyone mentions the 5 second timer when truthfully in many situations it starts at 5, then becomes 10, then 15, etc... in all the games I've played it is one of the worst gameplay experiences to have to endure. As a warrior when playing against Disarm spam you have 3 options:

1. Run.
2. Have wrestling, which has issues of its own. Templates are tight for all classes, the fact that Wrestling does not count for special move reduction really hurts this suggestion. Not to mention that having Wrestling really only assures that when Disarmed you can Disarm as well. Not a fun exchange with any guarantees of being productive, your opponent could still continue to spam Disarm to shut you down.
3. Log out.

I have suggested a very modest cooldown (10 seconds) as a solution. Disarm would still function the same, but become more tactical because the timing would have more importance. I also think its perfectly reasonable to expect a compromise, maybe give Disarm the ability to disarm shields like so many want. Perhaps increase the duration to 6 seconds and the cooldown to 12 seconds to give more time to make tactical decisions in the Disarm window, or even both compromises. I would love to get feedback on this, but the majority of the thread has been derailed quite often.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Truelly I fail to see how you expect to really run a "full" ninja, stealth mage on one temp. How unbalanced is that in the first place? Granted logic has to be dispelled in the first place to play this game but to really expect a spell caster to also be some amazing ninja death bringing superman is beyond anything even close to logical. Personally, I just couldn't bring myself to play such a temp for the absurdness of it but each to his own.

No one cares or needs the 300 points to make a char more than effective enough to kill multiple people.

I'll leave this thread to die as there is clearly no chance that you will admit that it's a complete screw up in the first place a a mage weapon was ever added to the game let alone one handed or with the option to be imbued. Two handed non imbued no one would care but for players such as your self I suspect that without a crutch you'd be running off to hide behind another rock.

Even though this has nothing to do with disarm allow me to retort. If that's the case of going back to the stone age, then lets make it full circle. How about no UBW then since it's the same and not balanced weapons since you have a problem with mages having a weapon they can pot with. I'm all for that.

No one cares or needs 300 combat points, yet everyone that is well verse in pvp does it. So you're saying they are just bored and doing it because they have nothing better to do? When you say things like that it only backs my case that you don't pvp at all/much/or are bad and don't know what you're talking about.

If by crutch you mean people using an item property that has been around since aos in order to play a wide array of templates with the trade off of being disarmed, then yes I agree with you. How dare those mages not all want to be play scribe wrestle mages.

Yes that is just you, a template like has its purposes whether you see it/understand it or not.

 

[Picus at the office]

Ya, I suck and can't pvp.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Mage templates are handicapped against dexxer templates. Thus the Mage weapon. It's as simple as that. Even if a Mage has wrestle, Mage dex is like 20. The penalty for a -mage weapon is -15 or -20 skill points. Which means 1 property with -15 weapon, which are really high end and hard to obtain. Or 2 properties (or forced into crystalline ring). So now the Mage suit is limited. The faction Arties eliminated many of the handicaps this brought about. They had tons of dci (25 on a piece with really good stats and resists) and fcr on a ring that has awesome stats. Without these artis Mage suits are forced into losing hpr or HP increase or something that can help them, in order to get enough dci and fcr for the template. People hated this.

Dexxers get equally powerful artis. The list is long, but things like +20 skill cloaks and ssi on armor come to mind.

Sorry for responds in derailers.

Disarm can be repeatedly spammed. The only tactics you need to overcome this is moving. It's simple, I'm a Mage I get disarmed, I move between casts or kite the dexxer. I'm a dexxer, I get disarmed , I run around in a circle until I get my weapon setup back. If you setup the template and suit right you should hit 50% of the time, so I theoretically should get 2 or sometimes 3 in a row. It's what you do with those 2 to 3 hit runs that really matter. If you disarm them, they will run. It's unlikely you will get a kill.

I fail to see how this is overpowering. It's disarm, it only lasts 5 seconds, and they have to run and hit you 3 to 4 more times before you are dead.

An important thing to include is it's the only way you can play a lot of templates out there. The mage weapon is the mages version of 300 combat points. Without it you have to play a wrestle mage with little variance. Similar to how a dexer has to play a Thrower, Ninja, or Bushido char to easily get 300 combat points.

For a mage however they can't disarm back with this set up and they know the consequences of playing with a mage wep IE it can be disarmed. We all know the trade off and made our choices to be vulnerable to this at the cost of a different template. We do however, have the choice to counter if we wanted IE parry for any template, wrestling ect. We could disarm back, or have passive preventive measures.

Just to reinforce what you said though, you're right disarm is not killing people. It's not hitting for 160 damage in one hit like honoring players and hitting a perfection crit. It is not the be all end all of specials.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Ya, I suck and can't pvp.

Well it was a good effort, I just know not to ask you for template advice after what you told everyone.

 

[Mook Chessy]

How can a mage cast ON THE RUN when they have to STOP TO CAST ? I think you misread something.

They are the same you use one skill to get the equivalent of another, just like UBW with fighting skills. Also mages use to have weapon skills, until it was changed which was one of the two big pvp change patches that crippled templates and cut out what people could play.

Please come to Yew Gate...a lot of the mages run faster then me casting mini heal...no stopping

Not to mention catching me on a full run while casting 3/4/5 level spells

Also note that a dexxer cannot spam the special para...although mages use the spam of para to gang 24/7

Speaking the truth..name your pvp toon...only a gutless tool would hide on the boards!

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I appreciate your level headed response and hope you can understand where some of us are comming from. Disarm is not overpowered in the sense that once you do it you are always guaranteed to win, its that there is no tactical skill involved when all you have to do is continually Disarm warriors to shut them down (similar to bleed spam). Everyone mentions the 5 second timer when truthfully in many situations it starts at 5, then becomes 10, then 15, etc... in all the games I've played it is one of the worst gameplay experiences to have to endure. As a warrior when playing against Disarm spam you have 3 options:

1. Run.
2. Have wrestling, which has issues of its own. Templates are tight for all classes, the fact that Wrestling does not count for special move reduction really hurts this suggestion. Not to mention that having Wrestling really only assures that when Disarmed you can Disarm as well. Not a fun exchange with any guarantees of being productive, your opponent could still continue to spam Disarm to shut you down.
3. Log out.

I have suggested a very modest cooldown (10 seconds) as a solution. Disarm would still function the same, but become more tactical because the timing would have more importance. I also think its perfectly reasonable to expect a compromise, maybe give Disarm the ability to disarm shields like so many want. Perhaps increase the duration to 6 seconds and the cooldown to 12 seconds to give more time to make tactical decisions in the Disarm window, or even both compromises. I would love to get feedback on this, but the majority of the thread has been derailed quite often.

Parry was already like that at one point and it was changed back. Considering it's a passive thing and can only max out at 36% at that point it would be pointless to use. Unless you could some how pick like a special when you were going to parry, or the parry rate is 100% until disarmed..

You don't have to run. You could put on alchemy and have EP and throw down conflags, that will get someone off you real fast. You could have a vollem or two, you could summon mirror images. Theres all kinds of things you can do that will deter people.

You could also add skill, if you have a problem with the skill points I agree. I think there are a couple things that should be on that list that aren't. I'm all for adding skills do the 300 combat points so that people aren't forced to play the same thing.

Also you were saying log out. Well instead of logging out, if you hate disarm that much have you considered playing a character that can't be disarmed at all? No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play anything. That's the best part of UO. You are free to play whatever you want. If someone keeps disarming you and you hate it that much you have the freedom to make a character specifically to counter the other guy. It's like with the stealthers today, if you want to do the equivalent of disarming them, get a tracker/revealer and just do that over and over and over.

Everything has a way you can counter it, and if you dont want to disarm you could jump on something that's not able to be disarmed as an option. Or Log out, or disarm them back with the possibility of getting disarmed.

If you want to limit disarm then why stop there, lets limit bleed, infectious strike, AI, ect. You know just a modest cool down on everything else also.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

Please come to Yew Gate...a lot of the mages run faster then me casting mini heal...no stopping

Not to mention catching me on a full run while casting 3/4/5 level spells

Also note that a dexxer cannot spam the special para...although mages use the spam of para to gang 24/7

Speaking the truth..name your pvp toon...only a gutless tool would hide on the boards!

Then I would suggest upgrading your PC and having your connection looked at.

Also note, a mages para is useless if you have 120 resist, which any top tier pvper will have.
A dexer can para regardless of your magic resist. So you think a para that can have double hit spells and goes off no matter what your resist SHOULD be spammable? It use to be spammable and everyone came here to complain, I guess everyone else is crazy for that then huh?

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

 

[ShadowTrauma]

I will be responding in the qoute.

Parry was already like that at one point and it was changed back. Considering it's a passive thing and can only max out at 36% at that point it would be pointless to use. Unless you could some how pick like a special when you were going to parry, or the parry rate is 100% until disarmed..

This isn't exactly clear on what you are referring to. I never mentioned Parry, so I will refrain from assuming and wait to comment.

You don't have to run. You could put on alchemy and have EP and throw down conflags, that will get someone off you real fast. You could have a vollem or two, you could summon mirror images. Theres all kinds of things you can do that will deter people.

I understand what you are attempting to illustrate, but the effectiveness of the "deterence" is subjective.

You could also add skill, if you have a problem with the skill points I agree. I think there are a couple things that should be on that list that aren't. I'm all for adding skills do the 300 combat points so that people aren't forced to play the same thing.

I am glad we mostly agree here, so I hope you can understand why people are hesitant to accept your "add a skill" arguments wholeheartedly.

Also you were saying log out. Well instead of logging out, if you hate disarm that much have you considered playing a character that can't be disarmed at all? No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to play anything. That's the best part of UO. You are free to play whatever you want. If someone keeps disarming you and you hate it that much you have the freedom to make a character specifically to counter the other guy. It's like with the stealthers today, if you want to do the equivalent of disarming them, get a tracker/revealer and just do that over and over and over.

There are a few flaws with this argument that I can see. Disarm in this case would be "forcing" me to play another character and there is no true counter to Disarm. While all your suggestions are plausible, not one of them will prevent a griefer from repeatedly Disarming a player if he wishes to do so. I am not trying to rude here, but would also counter with; Tracking and Detect hidden have coooldowns.

Everything has a way you can counter it, and if you dont want to disarm you could jump on something that's not able to be disarmed as an option. Or Log out, or disarm them back with the possibility of getting disarmed.

I have proposed my rebuttal on your "counter" argument above and your comment "disarm them back with the possibility of getting disarmed.", I would point out is not a great example of "good gameplay" and further reflects my opinion on Disarm currently.

If you want to limit disarm then why stop there, lets limit bleed, infectious strike, AI, ect. You know just a modest cool down on everything else also.

I have commented on most of the moves you listed there in my post about the weapon special system currently. I will pass to comment on them in this thread as it is about Disarm, but my views should be fairly well known.

 

[Mook Chessy]

Then I would suggest upgrading your PC and having your connection looked at.


Yea, its my PC...fact is mages do not stop to cast.

You also forget healing stone...can't interrupt that one and it works on the move.

Funny it's easy to tell when the stone is at zero, and trigger is used..Mage goes off screen.

I missed your pvp toons name?

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Don't bother Mook. He had no problem trying to toss my characters names around earlier in this thread but im sure that he is embarrassed to reveal who his supposed pvpers are since he dodged your question twice now.

- " Also note, a mages para is useless if you have 120 resist, which any top tier pvper will have.
A dexer can para regardless of your magic resist. So you think a para that can have double hit spells and goes off no matter what your resist SHOULD be spammable?"

The above statement was his ridiculous response to the difference between the mages very powerful and spammable para and the warriors nerfed para lol.

Here are the facts:
1) a necro mages omen/para stops 120 resist in its tracks for about a week. Have you even pvped since AOS? This is 1 of the obvious reasons why EVERY pvper carries a trapped crate. 120 resist or not.
2) you have seen a dexxer that hits double spells with para? Wow. I guess the FACT that one of the spells breaks the para effect doesnt apply in your universe? Just everyone elses.

Lets sum up to make things quite simple:

A mages para can be spammed, does not miss and will bypass 120 resist if used by a necro (which btw you see quite often)
A warriors para cannot be spammed, does whiff and is only ranged on limited templates. Nice job speaking the bs.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

I will be responding in the qoute.



I have commented on most of the moves you listed there in my post about the weapon special system currently. I will pass to comment on them in this thread as it is about Disarm, but my views should be fairly well known.

Right, however everyone else is bringing up other things which I will address.

Also with the one thing you said, no one is forcing you to do anything. You don't have a gun to your head so the choice is yours what you do. Whether its changing your template to counter them, adding a skill, or getting on a different character all together. It's not like you are forced to do anything. Or you can stay on the character that you like and realize disarm is possible but know you do have other options to deal with it.

 

[Speaking the Truth]

@Mook -what you said makes no sense also you messed up my quote and put your response inside.

Mages do indeed stop to cast, not one person will agree with you on that. There is a difference between stopping briefly on low circle spells and not stopping at all.

Healing stones are not mage specific and neither are pots, so I'm not sure what you're getting at on that?

Why is this mystic not carrying pots? I don't doubt that some mystics will run off screen like that, It's the same as a dexer who is on apple timer and pot timer or used all of his mana terribly then they just leave they don't hold their ground. Again not sure what that has to do with anything, but sure.

Oh you missed it I guess.