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OT: Nov4th08
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I'd like to welcome everyone to the era of poor immigration policy, rediculoulsly increased taxes for unneccessary government programs, and the possibility of nationalized healthcare.
WI had a statewide vote today for state funded healthcare...... I pray that does not pass.
WI had a statewide vote today for state funded healthcare...... I pray that does not pass.
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Dem0nic
Guest
I was hoping the silent majority was hidden beneath the socialist pollsters. Alas, they were not ;<
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hydro
Guest
hitler was a great speaker too, and look were that got them... there was so many reasons why people should have not voted for "Hussein". mcain wasnt much better but he was the lesser of the 2 evils.
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Tycolby
Guest
On the brightside the world will end in 2012 according to the aztec calander so we will only have him for pres for 4 years 
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Flora Green
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Tycolby
Guest
I can be sour all I want because the Tax increase will not affect you. With the increase on income and fica I will have to lay off two ppl to recoup the price of the increase. Its only the small business owners that get screwed.
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hydro
Guest
you can slander mcain all you want. he wasnt the best pick he just happen to be the antiosama pick.. the GOP could have had a much better canidate, i think they picked mcain,setup for failure, to help with the affirmitive action president. mcains campain was VERY weak. he could have pushed WAY harder on osamas flaws but he didnt. i guess ill just have to accept that we will be socailist for the next 4 years and keep hoping for Jindall/Palin in 2012 to resuce us....
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miss_samara
Guest
*sigh*
Ok, I'll bite. Why is nationalized health care so scary and awful? People in the U.S. now sometimes lose their houses and life savings if they end up sick. How is that better?
Ok, I'll bite. Why is nationalized health care so scary and awful? People in the U.S. now sometimes lose their houses and life savings if they end up sick. How is that better?
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Altec
Guest
We have nationalized health care just ask the illegals like obama's aunt.
I will tell you why, the same reason these bailouts aren't good for us or the fact that obama wants to give a tax credit to people who don't work isn't good for us. Those are all socailist ideals. America is suppose to be a democracy. Risk and reward the only problem is when people don't get the reward but still have to pay for the risk they want everyone to pay for it making it a socailized issue. But they are fine with it being a democracy when things work out and they get the reward.
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hydro
Guest
ok let me ask you this, why should i have to pay for health care for them? seems like if they have a house and savings they can find a job that offers health care. i dont anything to fix with health care, i have a job and have my own insurance that I PAY FOR. i dotn mind healping people in a time of need but i dont want to be forced to.
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miss_samara
Guest
Well, I think that's the thing. Not all jobs offer health care, sometimes even good jobs. My stepmother was a social worker, and some jobs just didn't have it. Or she'd end up with a weird one that didn't have a very good choice of doctors who would take it.
Plus, I suppose, I think of it as assurance for the future. We both may be able minded and bodied and able to work today, but that may not always be the case.
I don't entirely like the idea of being forced to do anything, either. I'm not sure how you can work around it, though. Some people wouldn't be kind enough to give up fifty cents even if it would save someone death and/or suffering.
So you make over $250,000 annually? Otherwise you are fine. Im not an Obama fan, but under his new plan if you hire more employees your business will actually pay less in taxes. This also works if you dont outsource your work to foreign countries.
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hydro
Guest
ok well i feel sorry for you if your job does not offer health care, but guess what?? i still dont want to pay for YOUR health care. get another job! there is plenty of companies that offer it and are hiring. not sure how many big companies will will stay here after our dictator taxes the **** out of them. this is the USA, pre osama, you can get anything you want with some hard work. post osama, you will get what they tell you... i just dont know how anyone with a 8th grade education or more could vote for that pig...i think they voted for him just so they could say "i voted for the black guy". its ok though, we will suffer for this BIG mistake for the next 4 years. i bet after his 4 years, joke of running this counrty, people will still blame bush.
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hydro
Guest
250K would be considered a smaller "big" company and is not hard to reach. i worked for a very small company with about 7 or 8 and they made well over 250k. what osamas plan lead me to belive is...people that fall into that group will most likely struggle and alot of them will be forced to close and lay off employees..just looks like a down ward spirail from there...
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Tycolby
Guest
Two Liquor stores, 7 employees and paying sales tax $3200 monthly roughly and employee income taxes which comes out to $1500. So if they take off the cap on Fica and increase on income by 7% to make business owners pay for national healthcare guess what We wont be able to stay afloat. More layoffs, increased cost for goods and rampant inflation.
And no I dont make $250,000 smart Owners only pay themselves less than a $1,000 a month. As for the liquorstores they blew that mark mid Feb. I am assuming you mean gross sales?
And no I dont make $250,000 smart Owners only pay themselves less than a $1,000 a month. As for the liquorstores they blew that mark mid Feb. I am assuming you mean gross sales?
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Malador
Guest
Those who provide health care and those who pay for all or a share of it themselves are already paying for the health care of others. As are those that do not get health care all all but work and pay contributions through thier paycheck. We are all paying in the form of inflated costs. Do you think that person who has no healh care with a broken leg simply ignores it. No they dont they go to a county hospital emergancy room where the cost is 3 times as high and get serviced for free. THen those costs are passed on to welfare programs or back to others in the form of inflated prices for procedures.
There is a reason a tooth brush costs $12 dollars at a hospital and $1.50 in the store and it isnt greed.
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Flora Green
Guest
A social worker via the govt? She chose her career, she chose where she worked. If she didn't have health care, that is her fault. If she had a govt job, we were already supporting her.
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Hanna
Guest
Yup he's right, you are already paying for it, and you will pay more for the health care they receive because they usually have to wait until it's too serious to ignore.
However, it isn't whether we should have national health care, we already do in a way although it's a really bad way to do it. It's whether we go about in a way that won't destroy small businesses and the economy. Obama has no clue on the economy and he has already said that in the past (although that seems to be totally forgotten). Democrats since and including Johnson, have been notorious bad when dealing with the economy.
All his economic advisors are Democrats, and already have proposed obviously bad economic policies. What will happen with his policies is that it will seem to work for a year or two, maybe even three, and then it will balance out with inflation and we will be worse off. Because we will have lost more jobs to other countries and possible several businesses themselves. Because of the inflation (and probably his trade policies as I did catch wind of protectionist policies that would hurt trade relations) we will be less able to compete in the international market.
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hydro
Guest
i have decided to become a democrat. its going to feel soooo good! monday i will quit my job,cancel my insurance,call my morgage company and tell them obama said he will keep me in my house. im so excited no more car payment no morgage payment and free gas.. what else could you ask for? im so happy now, i cant belive i spent most of my life thinking the government didnt owe me anything, boy was i worng they, owe me everything!
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Az of DSR
Guest
Then when your poor and learn the folly of your ways you can try to rebuild from nothing like a vast percentage of the poorest of americans. And when Obamas policies help you rebuild your dignity maybe then you'll have a grasp of what giving someone with nothing a helping hand can do.
( =
Obama for peace.
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Az of DSR
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Hanna
Guest
Old Bill had to benefit of all the work Reagan did, and a republican congress to balance the budget. With Bush though, and most people don't realize is that the GNP Actually rose, and so did the Tax revenues. Now they did spent way too much, it was reminisant of most Democratic Administrations. The war of course was the main culprit there.
Many layoffs came because of crisis like 911, Kritina, Gas prices (especially with the American Manufacturers producing gas hugs), and now the Bank failures (causing interest rates to rise for business loans and also business falling because they couldn't get the loans).
The worst economy was largely due to the mortgage crisis, some facts about that.
1) Bill and the Democrats pushed to put the bad mortgages in motion by pressing banks to give unqualified loans to low income people and lowering standards for loans. It was abused by companies.
2) 2001 Bush called for something to be done about the potential problem. It was ignored and dropped.
3) 2003 The secretary of the treasury warned that this was a problem and called for something to be done about it. In September 2003, Barney Frank, then the ranking Democrat on the Republican-led Financial Services Committee, opposed Bush administration proposals for increasing oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by creating an independent agency to supervise.
4) 2005/2006 McCain co-sponsored a bill to try and fix the problem, is was overwhelmingly voted down by the Democrats.
5) 2007 Barney Frank says there was a problem but it shouldn't be a problem anymore.
6) 2008 mortgage problem continues and you know the rest.
It always amazes me when Democrats Politicians and Liberal News organizations always blame Republicans for the things the Democrats themselves did, but what is more amazing is how many ignorant people believe them.
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hydro
Guest
LOL is funny to see how fast they all forgive poor little Bill and foot the blame to bush..
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Atlantian
Guest
You seem to be one of the only people I've seen that blames their problems on oppression. I work with lots of people of different color and not a one of them complain about oppression. Get out of the past and maybe you can accept what is happening now.
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Malador
Guest
Oh please. Regan and Bush economic policies are all designed to make rich people richer while making poor people poorer. THey are not in the best interest of the average american. Nor are they clearly desired by the poeple.
Banks are failing because they are poorly run. Issuing credit the consumer cannot repay is simply stupid and any bank that did that as policy should fail. Banks did it because they are run by greedy bastards that thought it would never catch up to them. Businesses that cannot operate without doing so on credit should not be operating. Credit is bad.
Worst economy? I would call this a little dip in the economy. It is not even a big recession. Look at some economic history and view a graph.
LOL I dont think the current forclosure issues really surround low income familys. The current mortgage/foreclosure issues are about middle to upper class people taking loans far in excess of thier ability to pay under the assumption they would turn the property long before the balloon part hit. These are stupid loans written by stupid people for credit extended to stupid people. I mean why on earth would anyone take a loan where they would pay nothing but interest for years without paying down the principle. Can you say SUCKER.
It amazes me when anyone democrat or republican can fail to understand that the republicans have been doing the same things through 3 of the last 4 presidencies and they will keep on doing it forever if we let them and it is not working.
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Malador
Guest
It is funny to see how little you have paid attention to the state of the country under both bushes and regan.
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hydro
Guest
its funny to see you know nothing about the current housing crisis. there we go again, just skip right over bill...W tried to fix the mess bill made with housing credit but he was shot down. so i guess since he was shot down it must be his fault and not the one who set it in motion.. i know,i know, its never a democrats fault..you know i really wish a democrat had won and not the socailist pig that will be our future dictator...
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Malador
Guest
I was not aware we had a housing crisis. In fact I feel quite certain there is ample housing available for everyone that can afford it given all the foreclosures.
What we do have is a financial crisis. Our current financial crisis has a number of different components. One of the prime components is greed. I speak of greedy banks that are not happy just writing those loans that make sense. I also speak of greedy consumers not happy living in a house they can actually afford. The greedy banks write bad loans to the greedy consumers that cannot afford to pay off the balloon when it comes due. Then the greedy bank forecloses on the greedy consumer and takes their home. Normally this would be no big issue for the banks but they have made a regular practice of it so now for about a decade or more. They have written so many bad loans they are hurting.
If you think any part of this issue has a political origin your wrong. It is greed pure and simple and would have happened no matter who was in office.
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hydro
Guest
your dead worng on that.. the fact is bill pushed fannie mac hard to lower the standards on home loans. they did as told but then abused it even more. bush tried to fix it and was shot down. seems a little political to me..
maybe next time ill elaborate better for you when i speak of a crisis. you got my point. the morgage issue is problay the heavy weight leader of the state of our economy. its not the banks fault, it the consumers fault. only person to blame is the name signed on all those lines. just cuz they approve me for a 5 million dollar house, should i sign for a house that cost that much when i know im still just under 100k a year?? when i meet someone that foclosed on a ARM loan, its a negative on the respect scale, cuz i know it people like that that are hurting this economy...
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Malador
Guest
Your still a bit confused. Fannie Mae does not make loans nor do they control the banks that do. In a nutshell all Fannie Mae does is make sure funds are available for banks to make loans at decent rates. They have a number of other functions but that is about it pertinant to this situation. How the bank structures its credit offers is up to the bank. Greedy banks over the last decade or so have chosen kind of a shortcut route to making money. Much like credit card companies they want us to borrow the money but never pay it back. All they want us to pay is interest and fees. So they structured thier loan offers with many years of interest payments until boom it was time to pay off the principle. THis might be ok for comercial loans or for the very wealthy but it dont fly when both husband and wife are working 50 a week to make just the interest payments.
As far as blame goes;
It is the banks fault for loaning money to a consumer who does not have the ability to pay it back.
It is the consumers fault for accepting a loan they cannot repay.
It is not the american taxpayers fault by any stretch of imagination.
And no you should not accept that loan but neither should it have been offered. It is bad business to even offer that credit and if that is the normal policy of that bank to make offers like that then the bank should fail or its officers should be dismissed.