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Glad you see the truth. It's about time...
But seriously, it's not everyone, but there is a very, very, vocal minority that does, and they are very consistent and very persistent, and the problem is that people like that tend to get listened to eventually, not because they are in the majority, and not because what they say is true, but because they keep saying the same things, over and over and over and over and over and over again.
And of course, not everything they say is false either. There is often just enough truth in what they say, and enough anecdotal evidence, to give what they say some bite. But they exaggerate, take things out of context, and conveniently ignore anything that doesn't support their message.
For example, yes greater dragons were powerful, and they were popular because taming is fun, but as powerful as they were, they still weren't as powerful as, for example, an advanced sampire played by a skilled player, even in the hands of an equally skilled tamer. But guess what, the sampire hasn't been nerfed, and the greater dragon has.
If you don't see the connection between that, and the unending stream of invective from those that hate tamers on these forums, you are blind. After a year and half of being away, I come back, and people like Goldberg are still consistently on message, and nothing you can say, no proof that you can present, will shake them off message.
For every post you might see saying sampires are overpowered, you will see at least ten wailing about how overpowered tamers are, even though the sampire is clearly the more powerful, and successful template. Anyone who plays the game at an advanced level knows that this is true.
The greater dragon has been nerfed. Fine, it is still powerful, and useful, but don't imagine for a minute that the complaining is going to stop. There might have been a short congratulatory pause, but the complaining barely even took a break, as is evidenced in this thread, and it will continue, guaranteed.
An academic could write a very interesting sociological paper on the discourse surrounding tamers on this forum...
Wouldn't this be true for a player as well. If they get disconnected there is nothing they can do either for 5 minutes.
And if the pet does not lose skills or stats upon death, who cares if it dies? No different than if I die, I go get ressed restock my stuff and voila I'm ready to go again.
Disconnections are part of online gaming and there is not much anyone can do about it. Sometimes it's not even EA's fault, Last night we lost power 5 times from thunderstorms. I logged back in after 4 of them to find myself dead. but again who cares, I just restocked and continued..
Llewen: Sampires my be over powered in PvM, but they are not overpowered in PvP. The max damage cap for PvP is different than PvM.Glad you see the truth. It's about time...
But seriously, it's not everyone, but there is a very, very, vocal minority that does, and they are very consistent and very persistent, and the problem is that people like that tend to get listened to eventually, not because they are in the majority, and not because what they say is true, but because they keep saying the same things, over and over and over and over and over and over again.
And of course, not everything they say is false either. There is often just enough truth in what they say, and enough anecdotal evidence, to give what they say some bite. But they exaggerate, take things out of context, and conveniently ignore anything that doesn't support their message.
For example, yes greater dragons were powerful, and they were popular because taming is fun, but as powerful as they were, they still weren't as powerful as, for example, an advanced sampire played by a skilled player, even in the hands of an equally skilled tamer. But guess what, the sampire hasn't been nerfed, and the greater dragon has.
If you don't see the connection between that, and the unending stream of invective from those that hate tamers on these forums, you are blind. After a year and half of being away, I come back, and people like Goldberg are still consistently on message, and nothing you can say, no proof that you can present, will shake them off message.
For every post you might see saying sampires are overpowered, you will see at least ten wailing about how overpowered tamers are, even though the sampire is clearly the more powerful, and successful template. Anyone who plays the game at an advanced level knows that this is true.
The greater dragon has been nerfed. Fine, it is still powerful, and useful, but don't imagine for a minute that the complaining is going to stop. There might have been a short congratulatory pause, but the complaining barely even took a break, as is evidenced in this thread, and it will continue, guaranteed.
An academic could write a very interesting sociological paper on the discourse surrounding tamers on this forum...
I think the reasons that most PvPers dislike PvP tamers is that most the PvP tamers gate hug and gank. At least that is my experience. You hardly ever seem them used to take over spawns.
Anyway in the end we will not please everyone. I just didnt think that my proposal was a bad one. It would put all PvPers on a level playing field, in regards to flee of battle, and a pet would not lose stats or skills upon death.
edit: dont forget we are talking about Fel only here.
And there you hit upon a very interesting little nugget of truth. Why do you think that PvP tamers don't "take over spawns"? I'll tell you why.
The players doing spawns are generally those that are more experienced, and they know a tamer is not the best, or easiest choice for a spawn. Tamers with an unmounted pet are extremely vulnerable, especially tamers with greater dragons, and there are several other templates that are far more useful at spawns. As I have already stated, this is true in just about every pvp and pvm context that I can think of.
You have just backed up exactly what I have been saying throughout this thread. Tamers excel in one context, and that is in a context where there is mid to low high level pvm content, and all the players present are relatively unskilled, or don't have very advanced characters. The same applies to a similar pvp context. In that context tamers rule, and that is the context that the majority of players see tamers in, and as a result there is a general misconception that tamers are overpowered.
The mistake that has been made by the devs with regard to tamers, and specifically with regard to greater dragons, wasn't in making them too powerful, it was in making them too accessible. Greater dragons should have required higher skills than they do to tame and control, to the point where you basically have to be 120/120 to tame and control them. It should be much more difficult to tame them and own them than it presently is. They should be a truly high end pet, not nerfed to the point where they are just another mid level pet along with all of the other mid level pets tamers have in their arsenals.
I don't play a tamer, so I truly don't know the ins and outs of it but I figured that not many people use GD's to do spawns is cause they move to slow.
Also there is a huge difference between PvPing from Despise vs PvPing while safe in guard zone.
I personally think that the GD's do a bit too much damage but I can deal with it and have adapted to it.
But the ability to save ones pet by logging out, when they are an aggressor, is just dumb and unfair.
Exactly. At a spawn the stakes are "real" (in game terms) so the pvp is equally "real". Yew gate is for practice, and to blow off steam. If you want to know what "real" pvp is like, you go to a spawn. It's no holds barred, with no stupid rules, and no equally stupid prejudices, all that matters is who ends up with the scrolls.
And as I have made the point over and over again, it isn't "dumb and unfair" as long as there is stat loss for pets. I know you said you would support getting rid of stat loss for pets, but you didn't mention that there, and that is the only way I would support getting rid of auto-stabling.
Another thing that would have to be fixed are the problems where pets will stay logged in for hours when the owner has logged off. Pets would need to log off when the aggressor log off timer has expired. And it would have to work without fail. If it doesn't pets will go wild, and that would be "dumb and unfair".
M
Mitzlplik_SP
Guest
Very well said. I couldn`t agree more.Glad you see the truth. It's about time...
But seriously, it's not everyone, but there is a very, very, vocal minority that does, and they are very consistent and very persistent, and the problem is that people like that tend to get listened to eventually, not because they are in the majority, and not because what they say is true, but because they keep saying the same things, over and over and over and over and over and over again.
And of course, not everything they say is false either. There is often just enough truth in what they say, and enough anecdotal evidence, to give what they say some bite. But they exaggerate, take things out of context, and conveniently ignore anything that doesn't support their message.
For example, yes greater dragons were powerful, and they were popular because taming is fun, but as powerful as they were, they still weren't as powerful as, for example, an advanced sampire played by a skilled player, even in the hands of an equally skilled tamer. But guess what, the sampire hasn't been nerfed, and the greater dragon has.
If you don't see the connection between that, and the unending stream of invective from those that hate tamers on these forums, you are blind. After a year and half of being away, I come back, and people like Goldberg are still consistently on message, and nothing you can say, no proof that you can present, will shake them off message.
For every post you might see saying sampires are overpowered, you will see at least ten wailing about how overpowered tamers are, even though the sampire is clearly the more powerful, and successful template. Anyone who plays the game at an advanced level knows that this is true.
The greater dragon has been nerfed. Fine, it is still powerful, and useful, but don't imagine for a minute that the complaining is going to stop. There might have been a short congratulatory pause, but the complaining barely even took a break, as is evidenced in this thread, and it will continue, guaranteed.
An academic could write a very interesting sociological paper on the discourse surrounding tamers on this forum...
Incompatence always needs a scapegoat.
While it may seem that I do not understand where your coming from, I do understand.
In an ideal world were everyone is above board and the developers never make a mistake and never exceed what is asked of them etc, yes your right it is just dumb and unfair.
BUT
In the real world of UO what you call unfair is not unfair in other scenarios than your specific case. That in fact your request adds to the list of the ways it becomes unfair. Yes maybe the total number of ways is the same, but the issue is that one side gets a minus while the other side gets a plus, the side that gets the plus has far more "Unfair's" in their column than the side that gets the minus.
I also suspect the way you avoided the chance to reply to something I exaggerated to get you to reply to it, implies you are aware this issue is trivial to barely an annoyance. Yet the potential for harm to others is far from being Trivial to Annoying.
All you need to do to know the truth of this is to ask yourself, Is the promised by 2 Ea/Mythic Lead Designers that there are going to be Gumps warning people that they are entering a PvP zone in the Abyss, in place? We are what 3 weeks into this expansion already?
The thing is, no tamer has to take their pets into Fel and engage in PvP. It's a choice.
If my pets die in PvP, just as PvM, I look to my own actions and try to take better care next time. Then i retrain the pet. I don't go expecting to have the rules changed so I can be as careless as I want with no consequence. Which seems to be the desire of some tamers in this thread. You want to kill other players in Fel, but if you screw up, you want to wriggle out of resing and retraining your pets? Sheesh.
I think it's gotten to a point now where life has become so safe and protected for players that the most basic risks are blown out of all proportion. Once upon a time you lost the pet, not just a few skill points. When bonding first arrived the skill loss was a real kick in the butt. But players still PvPd with pets. While some of you may abandon PvP because of changes like the OP proposed, plenty of us will still be out there fighting the same as always wondering what all the fuss is about...
Wenchy
If my pets die in PvP, just as PvM, I look to my own actions and try to take better care next time. Then i retrain the pet. I don't go expecting to have the rules changed so I can be as careless as I want with no consequence. Which seems to be the desire of some tamers in this thread. You want to kill other players in Fel, but if you screw up, you want to wriggle out of resing and retraining your pets? Sheesh.
I think it's gotten to a point now where life has become so safe and protected for players that the most basic risks are blown out of all proportion. Once upon a time you lost the pet, not just a few skill points. When bonding first arrived the skill loss was a real kick in the butt. But players still PvPd with pets. While some of you may abandon PvP because of changes like the OP proposed, plenty of us will still be out there fighting the same as always wondering what all the fuss is about...
Wenchy
I'm not exactly sure what it is you are arguing for or against here. I have no problem with the rules the way they are, however, if the rules with regard to auto stabling are to be changed, I would want stat loss done away with. It's not a question of wriggling out of anything, it's a question of fairness. The fact is there is no other template on the books that requires you to spend any amount of time retraining anything after a death, and I don't see why tamers should have to if they want to maintain their "weapons" at peak effectiveness.
The present rules allow the smart tamer to avoid that. If auto stabling was done away with, and skill loss remained as it is, there would be no way of avoiding it. In my opinion playing a pure tamer in pvp is already challenging enough, far more challenging that most other templates, there is no reason why it should be made even more so. By "pure" I mean a tamer whose primary means of dealing damage is with the pet.
Yes, going into Fel and pvp'ing as a tamer is a choice. Going into Fel and pvp'ing with any template is a choice. I would like it to remain a choice for tamers, and I don't see why it needs to be made a more difficult choice than it already is. There are a few who would like to remove that choice from tamers entirely, and for someone who seems to be such a devoted tamer I'm not quite sure why you always seem to be siding with them Wenchkin...
1. Allow pet insta log/ pet ball recall the same way you can insta log/ recall yourself. In a safe logout place, like your house, an Inn...etc. This halts all instalog occurences where the pet owner is flagged criminal.
2. All pets flag the exact as their controllers.
3. Faction pets loose 30% abilities upon death, for 20 minutes. Just as their controllers do when they die. They should also loose the .1 when they recover, just as any other pet does.
4. Fix the bug where a pet with 20 magery can cast higher level spells than their magery skills allow.
Issues with pets resolved without hitting the PvM crowd in any way, shape or form.
2. All pets flag the exact as their controllers.
3. Faction pets loose 30% abilities upon death, for 20 minutes. Just as their controllers do when they die. They should also loose the .1 when they recover, just as any other pet does.
4. Fix the bug where a pet with 20 magery can cast higher level spells than their magery skills allow.
Issues with pets resolved without hitting the PvM crowd in any way, shape or form.
You are not exactly sure what Wenchkin is arguing for or against?I'm not exactly sure what it is you are arguing for or against here. I have no problem with the rules the way they are, however, if the rules with regard to auto stabling are to be changed, I would want stat loss done away with. It's not a question of wriggling out of anything, it's a question of fairness. The fact is there is no other template on the books that requires you to spend any amount of time retraining anything after a death, and I don't see why tamers should have to if they want to maintain their "weapons" at peak effectiveness.
The present rules allow the smart tamer to avoid that. If auto stabling was done away with, and skill loss remained as it is, there would be no way of avoiding it. In my opinion playing a pure tamer in pvp is already challenging enough, far more challenging that most other templates, there is no reason why it should be made even more so. By "pure" I mean a tamer whose primary means of dealing damage is with the pet.
Yes, going into Fel and pvp'ing as a tamer is a choice. Going into Fel and pvp'ing with any template is a choice. I would like it to remain a choice for tamers, and I don't see why it needs to be made a more difficult choice than it already is. There are a few who would like to remove that choice from tamers entirely, and for someone who seems to be such a devoted tamer I'm not quite sure why you always seem to be siding with them Wenchkin...
Do you realize how biased and absurd that statement is? Ofc not lol.
Wenchy quite specifically and clearly states that tamers/pets need to face the exact same risk as everyone else in Felucca and you just cant accept or even acknowledge that he stated it since you quite obviously respect Wenchy & thus realize that your "everyone in this thread is wrong because they are nothing more then veiled tamers haters" wont fly.
Truly biased & pathetic
Just as I remember you from a year and a half ago. Does that sound familiar? Your other silly basis for not being able to reason is that you seem to unfavorably remember everyone from 18 months ago lol.
Uh oh Widow you are now a nonsensical Tamer-hater in the eyes of Llewen & Enigma.
It doesnt matter that you are able to make very valid and specific points for and against certain Taming issues. Once you make one negative point about ANY aspect of Taming you are a hater lol.
From now on everything you post is suspect and able to be refuted without fact just because you have at some time in the past 18 months or so spoken negatively about Taming. And henceforth anytime you enter a thread that thread will immediatley be branded an anti-taming thread.
If only PETA or Pro-life groups had such blind devotees.
I wonder what it must be like going through life day by day with blinders on.
You hit the nail directly on the head Wenchy.
Tamers such as Llewen & Enigma want to run around Felucca attacking & killing with their pets while at the same time keeping their pets 100% riskfree & safe from any harm. And above flagging rules and game mechanics lol.
And the sad part is that their ONLY defense for these gutless actions is that they claim the pet is their weapon so it should never take 'damage'
Lets discuss 'weapons' a bit shall we?:
1) The Tamer's 'weapon' is not exactly a weapon. It is a living, breathing creature. So it should take damage in other ways then weapons such as swords and bows. Which last time I checked do take damage. You don't have to retrain a sword or bow? No ****. Thats no excuse or argument for instalog.
A sword or bow will not follow and attack you for 20 screens after its owner has expired.
Oh yeah, we havent touched on the fact that the dead owner can choose to keep his 'weapon' attacking if it is doing well. Or simply log out and shield it from all harm if things start to turn bad. Thats the 'weapon' that Llewen & Enigma are attempting to compare to a Warrior's weapon? Too ridiculous.
2) Maybe it's just me but I certainly get confused when Llewen keeps calling pets weapons. What about the crossbow the Tamer uses to dismount his prey? Thats not his weapon? What about the offensive spells the Tamer uses? Or the Bola? Weird.
Llewen's Tamer wants to be able to utilize standard weapons & keep his pets 100% risk-free. Kinda funny stuff.
3) What type of idiot believes that the Tamers 'weapon' should be shielded from client crashes or power failures? A warrior or Mage can die like a dog when he crashes and thats ok because he doesnt have to retrain? Rofl. Like the amount of easily regained skill lost due to an occasional and rare crash is any type of factor in the pets overall offense.
Ohh wait, according to Enigma people like the OP(and anyone else on this planet that has ever said even 1 negative word about any aspect of Taming)are using super secret and powerful cheat/hack programs to crash Tamers.
Bottom line is quite simple:
If a Tamer is an aggressor and attacks someone and then dies his pet should quite obviously be fair game until such time as the Tamer can rejoin him.
TAMERS DO NOT HAVE TO BE HELPLESS WITHOUT PETS AND PETS ARE MOST CERTAINLY NOT HELPLESS WITHOUT TAMERS.
Peace
Here I go having to explain things to you again. I'm fine with the way things are. I have no problem with the rules not changing at all. Can you see how when she says, "I don't go expecting to have the rules changed", I would find that slightly confusing, when it appears that that comment was directed at me? The only change I would want, is in the event the change the op is requesting is implemented. In other words, I wasn't the one that started this by asking for any change whatsoever.
Is that clear enough for you?
Again, I have no problems with the rules as they are. No I don't like it when my pets die, but under the present rules set if they do die, it is most generally my fault, and I can always choose to sacrifice myself to save my pet if need be, which I have done on more than one occasion.
And out come the claws. Tamers are "gutless". Are there any other insults you would care to throw around in lieu of reasoned, intelligent debate?
Last I checked it was a collection of coded pixels, rather like the swords and bows your toons haul around, but that's beside the point...
And so do pets, and they will continue to do so whether the change I am requesting is implemented or not...
It certainly is an argument for auto-stabling. It isn't an argument you accept, but then I wouldn't expect you to accept anything I write. As for it being an "excuse", excuses are generally manufactured when someone has committed some form of indiscretion. I certainly haven't committed any form of sin, and I don't feel the need to make any "excuses".
Let's play a little game. You name one thing a pet can do that a player can't do with a weapon or a spell book, or one ability that a pet has that a player doesn't have available in skills or equipment. I'll name three that a player has available in skills and equipment that a pet doesn't have. We'll see who runs out of items to list first. I guarantee you, it won't be me...
Speaking of ridiculous arguments. None of your toons carry around more than one kind of "weapon"? I'm sure you are quite the purist and only allow your toons to use one specific weapon, come hell or high water...
Pets are not "100% risk-free" under the current rules. They can certainly be killed, and they do get killed. Maybe not as often as you would like, but there is certainly more risk involved to a pet than there is to any other form of gear.
I'm an "idiot" now, and you are "rolling on the floor laughing". This is getting a little personal for you now, isn't it? Last I checked no one was asking that tamers be auto-stabled, and last I checked they aren't. I expect you can kill a disconnected tamer just as fast as you can kill a disconnected warrior or mage.
See in my mind there are two kinds of tamers, and only one of them is a "real" tamer. There are templates that are primarily not tamers, but have taming on them to make use of strong pets as mounts and supplemental damage. Those kinds of tamers aren't helpless without their pets, because the pet isn't their primary form of offence.
Then there are templates where the pet is the primary damage dealer, and just to irritate you a little more, the pet is the primary "weapon". I call those "real" tamers. "Real" tamers, the ones whose primary form of offence is their pets, are fairly helpless without them.
You take away a dexxer's mace, or a mage's spell book, and just about all they can do is run. Oddly enough, you take away a "real" tamer's pet, and there is a really good chance the only thing they can do is die. Even running won't likely be an option.
I'm the one laughing now, or perhaps it is just a sardonic chuckle. You've called me a gutless idiot, among other things, and you think that ending your little tirade with "peace" makes it all better, or somehow magically transforms your trolling into reasoned debate? I may be an idiot, but I'm not as stupid as all that...
If you don't want to retrain pets then either don't use those pets for PvP or take care to avoid their death. You can't have everything your own way. Removing stat loss from pets takes out the last incentive for a tamer to do their job and look after those pets properly. So what if other templates don't have the same rules as tamers? You chose to play a tamer, so if you choose to take that tamer into PvP, the consequences are there if you lose. If you don't like them, use one of the other templates. Some of us actually like to feel a bit of buzz because we are taking risks. I don't want to be wrapped in cotton wool in Fel, it kinda defeats the purpose in being there. If a pet's death concerns you that much I really don't think you should cross into Fel to start with, let alone engage in PvP.
It's not that long since we didn't have autostabling. If you've come to rely on it, that's your problem, nobody else's. Not all tamers are the same as you, there will still be plenty of us in Fel if autostabling was taken away.
I'm "siding" with them because I believe that a tamer should have a consequence when they don't look after their pets properly. It encourages careless stupidity if you take that risk out of the equation.Yes, going into Fel and pvp'ing as a tamer is a choice. Going into Fel and pvp'ing with any template is a choice. I would like it to remain a choice for tamers, and I don't see why it needs to be made a more difficult choice than it already is. There are a few who would like to remove that choice from tamers entirely, and for someone who seems to be such a devoted tamer I'm not quite sure why you always seem to be siding with them Wenchkin...
I can understand that a tamer who consistently drops con or pet balls a pet out of the range of his enemies is going to be the most frustrating enemy out there. I'd try and kill the git too if I saw that. It's cowardly, just like guardzone hugging and house hiding, I don't see any benefit in protecting that style of play. Tamers doing that only annoy other players and add to the tamer hate that you and Enigma seem so conscious of. And perhaps I believe Fel is a place where all templates should enjoy PvP, not just the tamers. A PvP tamer can't be paranoid about a pet's stats when sending them into a group of players.
Wenchy
The pot calling the kettle black no?
You claim that I am getting "personal" yet lets roll back to your first replies in this thread Llewen shall we?
"The truth is Goldberg, that you simply don't like tamers, and you don't want them in pvp, period (and very likely you want them out of the game altogether). You are still singing the same songs you were singing a year and a half ago when I stopped visiting the forums. Your arguments and the points you make rarely have anything to do with fairness, balance, or logic of any sort, as is evidenced by your arguments in this thread, and everything to do with the simple fact that you don't like tamers."
I had not once mentioned you personally prior to this post of yours kid. I had refuted a couple of your ridiculous claims though so I guess that meant it was time for you to make the thread "personal"
Who started taking things personal first?
You claim that I am getting "personal" yet lets roll back to your first replies in this thread Llewen shall we?
"The truth is Goldberg, that you simply don't like tamers, and you don't want them in pvp, period (and very likely you want them out of the game altogether). You are still singing the same songs you were singing a year and a half ago when I stopped visiting the forums. Your arguments and the points you make rarely have anything to do with fairness, balance, or logic of any sort, as is evidenced by your arguments in this thread, and everything to do with the simple fact that you don't like tamers."
I had not once mentioned you personally prior to this post of yours kid. I had refuted a couple of your ridiculous claims though so I guess that meant it was time for you to make the thread "personal"
Who started taking things personal first?
Llewen,
Understand, things have changed since you left, there are those that pretend to being a Tamer Advocate, yet no matter what, Tamers and Greater Dragons are always, permanently, irrevocably over powered, that there is no nerf to great, and other Templates CAN NOT EVER ENJOY PvP because of them.
The rebuttal will be the same as it always is, in spirit, if not in words.
How dare you, I Love Tamers, I just think that a Tamer should be able to Beat a Sampire, butt naked, with no pets and anyone that thinks other wise is not a REAL TAMER, they are just a fake and have no business being in UO.
Also, you want to ponder a Light Switch, a Bit, they both have two states On or Off and they change their state in the blink of an eye.
The above quotes tells you what the core issue is.
Understand, things have changed since you left, there are those that pretend to being a Tamer Advocate, yet no matter what, Tamers and Greater Dragons are always, permanently, irrevocably over powered, that there is no nerf to great, and other Templates CAN NOT EVER ENJOY PvP because of them.
The rebuttal will be the same as it always is, in spirit, if not in words.
How dare you, I Love Tamers, I just think that a Tamer should be able to Beat a Sampire, butt naked, with no pets and anyone that thinks other wise is not a REAL TAMER, they are just a fake and have no business being in UO.
Also, you want to ponder a Light Switch, a Bit, they both have two states On or Off and they change their state in the blink of an eye.
Fine. You want consequences, go play Siege, where incidentally I have said over and over again, a bonded pet should count as a player's Siege blessed item, for the exact same reasons I said if auto-stabling is done away with, skill loss on pets should be as well.
Two points. Point one which I should have brought up before, not all connection drops are intentional, and point two, I'm not quite sure why you are singling out tamers here. The very worst guard zone huggers I have seen, the ones that deliberately try to lure other players so they can get them guard whacked, and employ all kinds of tricks to make that happen, haven't been tamers. But for some reason, tamers are being singled out. I wonder why that is?
You are a bit like the father who has a favourite child, and is harder on that child than any of the other children. In part because he cares so much, and in part because he doesn't want to be seen to be playing favourites...
That's funny, I look at that, and I don't see me calling you an idiot, or gutless, or any other name. I levelled a few accusations. Accusations I can back up if you would like me to, but I think we both know they are true, so there really is no point is there? But if you really want me to, I'll take an hour or two and back up everything I said about you in that post. You've almost made it worth it.
I also don't tweak someone's nose, then say "peace" in the vain hope that saying "peace" will somehow make me look a little more mature... "kid"...
Enigma, try actually reading what you bold in a quote. The word "all" is usually pretty easy for folk to understand - it means that PvP should be fun for tamers as well as non tamers. And it is. But it's like riding a bike, some folk just can't progress enough to take the stabilizers off and handle the job by themselves. It's the same with pet balls and logging out.
It shouldn't surprise you that there are tamers who can PvP without pet balls or logging out.
Wenchy
Why should I move shard just because you can't handle a few skill points dropping when your pets die? All that's necessary here is for you to be less precious about your pets or accept that tamer PvP just isn't for you and be done with it. We don't need the game made any easier just because you can't accept a bit more risk in PvP.
Of course we don't all drop con intentionally, I used to play on a hissy 56k con. I would prefer having pets protected when I do lose con, which is why I hoped my fellow tamers wouldn't abuse autostabling and make this change necessary. But you have, and I'm guessing you still do. So I agree we need a change. I hope it can be targeted to only affect tamers in the midst of a PvP battle, but even if it can't, tamers won't stop logging off mid battle because someone asks them nicely
So as usual, tamers in Tram may suffer because of the antics of their fellow tamers in Fel. No, I just learned many years ago, when you stood to lose your pets if you lost a fight, that the only way to keep a pet pristine was to fatten it up in the stables. My pets have lost far more skill points through the mid-vet death bug than they ever could in PvP, so I really can't understand the concern when it's a PvP battle. Skill loss is just part and parcel of death, just as insurance money is. I got over it years ago. Besides, I'd find UO incredibly boring if a pet simply had to be selected and trained once and there was no upkeep after that.
Wenchy
U
UOKaiser
Guest
Ok lets assume they nerf this. Whats the next pet nerf that will be posted about and ask that the dev fixed? We just finished a gd-stealth nerf and this tread pops up. So am curious which pet ability is next in line that the non tamer community wants?
Typical UO elitist crap. Tamer haters look down on tamers in pvp, purist tamers look down on hybrid tamers in pvp, elitist tamers look down on tamers that don't follow their exclusive little list of dos and don'ts, including auto stabling and para taming, bushido dexxers look down on dexxers that use weapon specials, purist mages look down on everyone.Of course we don't all drop con intentionally, I used to play on a hissy 56k con. I would prefer having pets protected when I do lose con, which is why I hoped my fellow tamers wouldn't abuse autostabling and make this change necessary. But you have, and I'm guessing you still do. So I agree we need a change. I hope it can be targeted to only affect tamers in the midst of a PvP battle, but even if it can't, tamers won't stop logging off mid battle because someone asks them nicely
It's in the game, it isn't against any rules, no one is going to get banned for doing it. Get over it, and if it annoys you, suck it up and find some way to deal with it, and if you really don't like it, I'll throw your own advice right back at you, don't go to Fel, because I'm sure not going to stop going on your account.
Right now I'm playing my dexxer in Fel, because I'm rusty and my skills aren't up to dealing with my tamer in pvp yet, but it probably won't be long before I'm back at it, and every time I die, I will auto stable my pet, think of you, and smile...
Ever think that perhaps another person can have differing tastes and opinions from you and it may just stop there? Or is the "poor me being persecuted" so badly ingrained that you can't see beyond it? I'm sorry that tamers like yourselves have created enough frustration to once again be the subject of some angry PvPers. But I won't lie and pretend this is some huge nerf that's going to ruin taming for me when I can't see what the fuss is for. Throw as many insults as you want, truth is I just don't get upset when my pets need to be retrained after they die. Deal with it.
It's in the game, it isn't against any rules, no one is going to get banned for doing it. Get over it, and if it annoys you, suck it up and find some way to deal with it, and if you really don't like it, I'll throw your own advice right back at you, don't go to Fel, because I'm sure not going to stop going on your account.[q/uote]
I appreciate your concern, however I'm happy with my experience in Fel. I live there
LOL. Well I'll be smiling too as per the above. Keep up the good work! Maybe you won't be smiling if it gets taken away from you, but there's only one way to find outRight now I'm playing my dexxer in Fel, because I'm rusty and my skills aren't up to dealing with my tamer in pvp yet, but it probably won't be long before I'm back at it, and every time I die, I will auto stable my pet, think of you, and smile...
Wenchy
S
Splup
Guest
Cause playing our template is art compared to others
Thou my pure mage has developed into parryingresistscribe mage. It's a pure mage with added parrying. Does it still count?
As far as I know, this isn't even on the devs radar. I had this exact same discussion with Goldberg a year and a half ago, I don't expect this to happen any time soon. However, if it does happen, I've expressed my preference as to a change I would like to see combined with it. Who knows if the devs will read this, or what they will think of it?Maybe you won't be smiling if it gets taken away from you, but there's only one way to find out
All I can do is repeat what I said a year and a half ago, I hope that the devs don't just listen to the whining and crying, from any side, including mine. I hope they actually take a look and see for themselves what is going on in game, and base any decisions they make primarily on that.
And don't think I'm saying that the devs have maltreated tamers. They've obviously done a lot of catering to tamers. There are lots of new tameables, and for the most part they haven't made too many decisions regarding taming that I am going to complain bitterly about.
I don't much like the recent changes to greater dragons. I think they could have been implemented more intelligently and fairly, but it isn't a game breaker for me. I just hope we can't expect more of the same, but time will tell, and every time something gets nerfed, someone is bound to think it is unjust.
As for the specific change requested in this thread. I'm not going to quit in a huff if it is implemented. I'll adjust as I always have. As I said, I've expressed my opinion, and offered my suggestions, and argued it as best I know how, that's all I can do, and I'm not going to worry about it.
In the meantime I'm going to keep playing and enjoying the game as I find it. If worse comes to worse and a change is made that I think is truly game breaking, there are lots of other entertainment options out there, and I'll let my money do the talking, but this is clearly not one of those issues for me.
And this little statement is beyond laughable. All a tamer needs to do to annoy many of the pvp'rs in UO, is show up with a pet, or even worse, actually win a battle or two. It doesn't really matter what they do, or don't do, in the process. Someone is going to complain. It's as inevitable as the sun rising in the east...
No-one can argue these points because they all know them to be true and fair on the Fel plains of battle. Why they are not already implemented is a testament to the coddeling of the tamer bracket. I play 3 tamer templates in PvP and know all these points are true.
"The rebuttal will be the same as it always is, in spirit, if not in words"
Here is something new and refreshing;
Enigma overusing & abusing the English language while trying to play armchair Psychiatrist.
I just love the way that Enigma can brilliantly pluck the "spirit" right out of the post. The actual words and valid counterpoints against Enigma mean nothing because he is able to realize the "spirit" Lmao.
For no other reason then to restate for the millionth time that ANYONE who has even one point to make about Tamers is a lying, veiled Tamer-hater.
Bravo! I commend you on your objectivity & willingness to listen to the valid points of others my friend