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NEWS NLS Newsletter #6

MalagAste

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The dang bars staying happen to me ALL the time with CC. When you are a sampire and you pull a lot of bars up to have them target you for whirlwind, it's a pain in the @ss to have to close half of them afterwards each time. And NO, they are not stuck together, they are pulled randomly all over my screen in haste.
I don't know to me that's a minor inconvenience compared to being in the EC and having ghost mobs on your screen and wasting time and effort trying to kill things that aren't there... having the targeting target stuff that doesn't exist... Can get you killed...

and I can say that oftentimes the ghost mobs are caused by you leaving the screen and coming back when the mob in question dies while it's off-screen... but was there seconds before when it was on screen... if you go one way and double back sometimes this can even crash the client...
 

Keven2002

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Players not doing through testing is why the devs do not fix bugs. Because someone says there is no bug and they did not test all mobs.
@Larisa - Have you tried killing balrons (1 bar at a time is open)? Should be an easy way to figure out if you can replicate. Do 6-7 balrons. Let us know!

If you want to tell me what program you used to make the video I can replicate it; usually happens multiple time a day to me and I'm only playing an hour or 2 if that lately.
 

Larisa

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If you actually watched my video you'd see how I reproduced it.

I pulled a bar, killed a mob, it disappeared. I did that several times, which is what normally happens to me.

THEN I pulled 3 bars, stuck them together, killed the mobs, and 2 of the three bars stayed.

As I stated many times, I never stick my bars together so this glitch has never happened to me. During testing it DID happen because I did something I NEVER do.

I use OBS to record video and livestream.

I did go kill balrons, killed about 9, got a paragon, killed it...bars disappeared.

I will try again later but I am not able to reproduce this glitch UNLESS I stick bars together.
 

The Black Smith

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There is a much more detailed thread on the non dissapearing health bars started on the official uobug forum, posted the very day before this newseletter, maybe some players get a draft copy of the newsletter first.
 
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Pawain

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If you actually watched my video you'd see how I reproduced it.

I pulled a bar, killed a mob, it disappeared. I did that several times, which is what normally happens to me.

THEN I pulled 3 bars, stuck them together, killed the mobs, and 2 of the three bars stayed.

As I stated many times, I never stick my bars together so this glitch has never happened to me. During testing it DID happen because I did something I NEVER do.

I use OBS to record video and livestream.

I did go kill balrons, killed about 9, got a paragon, killed it...bars disappeared.

I will try again later but I am not able to reproduce this glitch UNLESS I stick bars together.
You are the only one sticking the bars together. It may happen like that but I know it happens with 1 bar at a time.
The other part of the bug is player heath bars going poof when the player dies. Those are the ones players put together.

If you notice the 3 bars I showed you are all from collector of souls. It may only happen to that type Balron. So if you happen to never get one of those you wont see it.
 

Uriah Heep

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I dont stick the bars together.
I dan't have UOassist, just plain old CC
so it isnt an add-on thing causing it
 

Uriah Heep

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But the point is, it got reproduced rather quickly and easily here all of a sudden.
Amazing to me that the devs couldn't reproduce it...just sayin
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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The dang bars staying happen to me ALL the time with CC. When you are a sampire and you pull a lot of bars up to have them target you for whirlwind, it's a pain in the @ss to have to close half of them afterwards each time. And NO, they are not stuck together, they are pulled randomly all over my screen in haste.
I very seldom pull bars on my Sampire when needing whirlwind. That is where I hit the attack macros.
 

Pawain

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I very seldom pull bars on my Sampire when needing whirlwind. That is where I hit the attack macros.
I rarely do on anything. But, I pull them on Balrons because I do a lot of timing tests there. I'd say most players never see this bug because most of the time you do not need to pull up bars.

It is kinda funny that we want these bars to go away but we want player bars to stay. How will they fix both. :)
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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That is a good question.. and I don't see a way they would be able to without a pretty high amount of coding... which admittedly I know very little about.

Sure, it is a pain closing out the grey box at times.. but having to do that is a small price to pay in order to ensure player bars stay put imo.
 

Obsidian

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Good update. My only concern is the testing on the pet revert. I recently acquired a pristine PP Mare. Now, I'll be a little scared to pull him out of the stable to start training until I'm sure his strength won't go into today's spawnable range (500 ish down to 300 ish).
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Now, I'll be a little scared to pull him out of the stable to start training until I'm sure his strength won't go into today's spawnable range (500 ish down to 300 ish).
I doubt this will ease your mind.. but no need to worry about pulling it out of the stable... the last fix they did hit pets while in the stable as well. I suspect this one will as well.
 

Pawain

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Good update. My only concern is the testing on the pet revert. I recently acquired a pristine PP Mare. Now, I'll be a little scared to pull him out of the stable to start training until I'm sure his strength won't go into today's spawnable range (500 ish down to 300 ish).
Don't worry, the first things players will look at on TC is PP pets. Hopefully this goes to TC also.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Don't worry, the first things players will look at on TC is PP pets. Hopefully this goes to TC also.
The first one they did didn't. Was just rolled out to production shards rather quietly.
 

Uriah Heep

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I rarely do on anything. But, I pull them on Balrons because I do a lot of timing tests there. I'd say most players never see this bug because most of the time you do not need to pull up bars.

It is kinda funny that we want these bars to go away but we want player bars to stay. How will they fix both. :)
That's the problem, player bars go away, mob bars stay...maybe they just need to swap the coding on the two LOL.
 

Pawain

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I went back and got a new collection. Looks like Slayers also can leave their bars.

1614387245828.png
 

Effort

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Thank you @Larisa for taking the time to make a video, and putting in the leg work. I'm sure people will see you leading by example
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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Let's be 1,000,000% clear for those I'm the back of the room. No one is "overloading" VS. If this was designed even marginally well it would handle every query with no issue.

This is not a true story, this is nonsense. Do not spread nonsense, make an effort to understand what you're talking about before parroting it (not you personally, a general "you")
So... if the 'fix' of dropping EJ from using VS actually fixes the issue will that prove the 'overload' situation was (at least) somewhat accurate?

Or will it be a conspiracy that the Devs actually correctly coded it for a change are are using the EJ situation as a cover up?

I mean, I don't care what they do to fix it.. I don't care what is causing it.. just want it fixed or give us searchuo back...
 

Pawain

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Let's be 1,000,000% clear for those I'm the back of the room. No one is "overloading" VS. If this was designed even marginally well it would handle every query with no issue.

This is not a true story, this is nonsense. Do not spread nonsense, make an effort to understand what you're talking about before parroting it (not you personally, a general "you")
But but they are EJ Bots that do vendor searches all the time so they can buy cheap stuff and sell it for higher prices.
My cousin told me about them.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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But but they are EJ Bots that do vendor searches all the time so they can buy cheap stuff and sell it for higher prices.
My cousin told me about them.
Heck man I don't profess to know the truth of it...

but if the same asshats sit there and span in Gen chat constantly and create new chars quickly after I ignore them.. I could dang sure see them doing something to screw up vendor search as well. I mean, trolls will be trolls.. and trolls love to screw up everything they can.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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C'mon now.... that one dude (yeah, we all know the name) would do it just because he could.

Them banning his EJ accounts from pushing people towards his gold selling site would be reason enough in his mind for him to create a headache for the Devs by jacking up VS. Anyone knows ya figure out how to jack VS up, it will rile the players up and have them going after the Devs with @Stinky Pete brand™ pitchforks and torches...
 

petemage

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So players can reproduce this issue within an hour but BS can't in months. Alright. Sounds just like they never really tried.
 

Effort

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C'mon now.... that one dude (yeah, we all know the name) would do it just because he could.

Them banning his EJ accounts from pushing people towards his gold selling site would be reason enough in his mind for him to create a headache for the Devs by jacking up VS. Anyone knows ya figure out how to jack VS up, it will rile the players up and have them going after the Devs with @Stinky Pete brand™ pitchforks and torches...
Okay, so let's go down this path. You can plug and play any chat spammers name there - Those guys only sell (really sell) the items you can buy with sovereigns and game time. Look at the item prices, they're not even stores, they're just abusing one little flaw in Origin.com's regional pricing. They need vendor search to even try to provide anything else.

So this guy is tanking vendor search in your mind, to have you go to his site and buy a transfer token, forged metal tool, soulstone token (or another 10 items) ? Also his gold is even high priced, and those other sites can barely stock 2p at a time. They are an annoyance because they are an annoyance, not because theyre effective or well run.

it's like the smallest dog barking the loudest

Nevermind the fact that there is literally no logic where "tanking" the vendor search would be a thing. if this was actually ddos'd other systems would be effected, not just the table that is Atlantic vendor search
 

Effort

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So players can reproduce this issue within an hour but BS can't in months. Alright. Sounds just like they never really tried.
The bigger take away is that players who login to a game every single night/week/etc and login to go to a virtual in game meet up with the devs at a specific time each month can't just take a video and represent the bug properly, to help this TINY DEV TEAM FIX THE THINGS YOU WANT TO SEE FIXED.


This is like a bunch of 1 arm swimmers, there's no way this attitude of 'well look they didnt do it for us, they dont care!' is helpful in anyones existence
 

petemage

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The bigger take away is that players who login to a game every single night/week/etc and login to go to a virtual in game meet up with the devs at a specific time each month can't just take a video and represent the bug properly, to help this TINY DEV TEAM FIX THE THINGS YOU WANT TO SEE FIXED.


This is like a bunch of 1 arm swimmers, there's no way this attitude of 'well look they didnt do it for us, they dont care!' is helpful in anyones existence
You make it sound like it was only reported recently. But I have seen people complaining about health bars for many months now. Even Larissa - who said she never had that issue - was able to reproduce it within half an hour. I'd say this is pretty much BS not even trying to reproduce it. After all they are the ones who get paid to do exactly this.
 

CovenantX

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They should also fix your pets bars so that they don't close if your pet dies. it's annoying AF when using pack-damage pets.
 

Pawain

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Heck man I don't profess to know the truth of it...

but if the same asshats sit there and span in Gen chat constantly and create new chars quickly after I ignore them.. I could dang sure see them doing something to screw up vendor search as well. I mean, trolls will be trolls.. and trolls love to screw up everything they can.
The gold sellers rely on players needing gold to buy things on VS. Like Power Scrolls etc. So they are making it frustrating for players to see how much they need to buy. Oh ya that's how you run a business.
 

Pawain

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The bigger take away is that players who login to a game every single night/week/etc and login to go to a virtual in game meet up with the devs at a specific time each month can't just take a video and represent the bug properly, to help this TINY DEV TEAM FIX THE THINGS YOU WANT TO SEE FIXED.


This is like a bunch of 1 arm swimmers, there's no way this attitude of 'well look they didnt do it for us, they dont care!' is helpful in anyones existence
It is too complicated for you to see pictures of three or four bars from dead Mobs? First they are not going to change the code based on someones video or picture. They have to reproduce it. To reproduce it, Misk has to play UO.

Spend 20 minutes in Chaos killing Balrons and you will see 3 or 4 bars stay up after the mob dies.
 

Dot_Warner

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In another life, I did database management...which included creating a few that had more records than UO has any right to generate. None of them behaved like VS does unless there were structural or (far less often) hardware issues (unreliable connectivity or a dying HDD).

My guess is that the VS engine is trying to do too much at once: searching all the items based on keywords (multiple times?) and then caching all the item and multiple levels of location data (Geo, Vendor, subpack(s)) and whatever metrics, if any, they choose to track. Then that gets punted that to the client as a wall of text for it to generate the gump with. (I'd wager the CC gets all the same info the EC does, it just displays way less of it.)

So the server they put VS on may be trying to handle way too many VS and non-VS things at once causing calls to time out along the way, but since these are supposedly on AWS blades, I find that really hard to believe. Unless they are housing it on the same C64 that runs the uo.com yoyo... Regardless, there is a massive inefficiency somewhere.

Knowing that UO started as a hastily cobbled together flatfile and that shard settings were saved on easily broken in-world objects... *shudders* I don't envy Bleak. :juggle:

Exporting all vendor data to an external database (refreshed every 4 hours?) on its own server and then running in-game search through a stripped-down browser window might be a good alternative, assuming it could still generate the maps. That interface might be a way to reintroduce in-game email, a less clumsy IM system, and dynamic newspaper-like functionality as well... :stir:
 

Pawain

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My guess is they come from planting and growing the Peculiar Coconuts we get from the black market rewards.
:danceb: Now that makes sense! Just like peculiar seeds! I hope you are correct! :danceb:
 

Poo

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ok, so i saw a post or 2 of people saying or asking how dead mob bars are not a issue.
i disagree.
just because some people are lower performing players and not.... high end players does not mean we shouldn't fix the problem so the higher end players can't enjoy themselves too.

example.
im what some people would consider a higher end bard in game.
i don't deny the fact that im pretty damn good on my bard.
there are times when we will go out hunting and i will have 20-40 mobs provoked onto each other and dancing.
(like doing the Eoden zippy quest underground)
so ya, for me having dead bars on my screen can become a critical issue when im being a puppet master and have a lot of mobs working on each other.

i also like how some people post "ive been playing this game for 14+ years and this is not a issue because i havnt seen it."
well ok, ill play.
ive been playing this game since it started, so whats that.... 23 years+ (?) and i DO see it and it does effect my game play so lets get it fixed.

and lets be realistic here, recreating those 3 bar bugs are stupid easy (as have been shown above by people) so my comment still stands.
its obvious that the Devs don't play their own game.

i don't care that they don't play their own game, im just stating a fact that is apparent.
i don't go and hang out in ambulances and at fire halls when im off shift and i don't expect the dev's to hang out in the Shadowguard when they are off shift.
but having a working knowledge of their game would help them out.
 

Keven2002

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All I know is that I can't wait for new content to play and work towards so we all have something else to do rather than go back and forth about the viability of this game and its Devs :gee:
 

Lord Frodo

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The gold sellers rely on players needing gold to buy things on VS. Like Power Scrolls etc. So they are making it frustrating for players to see how much they need to buy. Oh ya that's how you run a business.
They also sell Power Scrolls, Equipment and Tokens so if you sell the gold and the items deeded then yes it would be very profitable for them to shut down VS so you buy everything from them and can not price compare with VS to see where the better deal is.
 

Pawain

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They also sell Power Scrolls, Equipment and Tokens so if you sell the gold and the items deeded then yes it would be very profitable for them to shut down VS so you buy everything from them and can not price compare with VS to see where the better deal is.
Exactly so why would they make vendor search not usable? They also want to know prices. They also buy items to resell. With Tactics and Resist scrolls increasing so fast recently, the RMT site were selling them cheaper because they did not notice they jumped from 60 to 90M.
 

Lord Frodo

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Exactly so why would they make vendor search not usable? They also want to know prices. They also buy items to resell. With Tactics and Resist scrolls increasing so fast recently, the RMT site were selling them cheaper because they did not notice they jumped from 60 to 90M.
They already know how much they want for their item and honestly when it comes to PSs VS always has them beat, the only deal that I found cheaper than VS/UOStore was when you were able to buy 5 Xfer tokens cheaper than the UOStore. They do not want you as a customer knowing what the competition is selling their stuff at so yes it is very beneficial for the RMT sites to keep you the buyer out of it.
 

Effort

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You're logic relating to this point is entirely circular - you're assumption that VS is cheaper on everything correlates to a gold value, which then determines how much gold this prospective customer would buy, in a much easier to manage and scale transaction.

vs is far better for someone trying to provide a service than not. Though I'm sure to the end user the ANNOYANCE feels limitless.
 

Theo_GL

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Who the hell says they do not listen

We've seen a lot of feedback recently about vendor search and want to share our plans for improving its performance in the future. With Publish 110 there will be restrictions on Endless Journey accounts accessing vendor search, we've updated the error messaging to better identify which issues users are experiencing, and we will be performing more regularly scheduled maintenance on the database.
I really don't think limiting EJ accounts is the answer. The whole point of EJ accounts was to allow people to come to UO and play for free and learn the game. How the hell is a new EJ player supposed to gear up without access to vendor search?

Just because you can't manage a database shouldn't mean punishing EJ players.

I really think they should just scrap EJ altogether. You have limited those accounts so much now they are worthless.

They would be better off giving first 1 month free gametime and then those accounts need to be paid for or they go inactive. This EJ stuff is silly. You can play for free but you can't really do anything. Enjoy!
 

MalagAste

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I really don't think limiting EJ accounts is the answer. The whole point of EJ accounts was to allow people to come to UO and play for free and learn the game. How the hell is a new EJ player supposed to gear up without access to vendor search?

Just because you can't manage a database shouldn't mean punishing EJ players.

I really think they should just scrap EJ altogether. You have limited those accounts so much now they are worthless.

They would be better off giving first 1 month free gametime and then those accounts need to be paid for or they go inactive. This EJ stuff is silly. You can play for free but you can't really do anything. Enjoy!
Maybe it's a good thing... think of it like this... If they can't do a vendor search they won't see the absurd prices of things and then they might actually sub... before figuring out that they will have to spend 3 years grinding non-stop to afford anything...
 

Lord Frodo

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I really don't think limiting EJ accounts is the answer. The whole point of EJ accounts was to allow people to come to UO and play for free and learn the game. How the hell is a new EJ player supposed to gear up without access to vendor search?

Just because you can't manage a database shouldn't mean punishing EJ players.

I really think they should just scrap EJ altogether. You have limited those accounts so much now they are worthless.

They would be better off giving first 1 month free gametime and then those accounts need to be paid for or they go inactive. This EJ stuff is silly. You can play for free but you can't really do anything. Enjoy!
Maybe the DEVs can see something that we can not and just maybe they can see that our suspicions were correct and they are restricting access to VS to just paid accounts until they can fix it. Also I think you will find that the majority of EJ accounts have a least 1 paid account with it, just look at all the multi-boxers and RMT sellers spamming. I honestly do not think that there are as many solo EJ Accounts as you think there are and if there are then it isn't really hard to get help getting info/products on the less populated shards now Atl is another story so I guess the guilds there will need to step it up and help truly solo EJ Accounts.

What BS/UO should have done was take the 2 week timer off trial accounts and been done with it and we would not be having all these problems with EJ Accounts and once a year allow all accounts free access like they use to.
 

Lord Frodo

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You're logic relating to this point is entirely circular - you're assumption that VS is cheaper on everything correlates to a gold value, which then determines how much gold this prospective customer would buy, in a much easier to manage and scale transaction.

vs is far better for someone trying to provide a service than not. Though I'm sure to the end user the ANNOYANCE feels limitless.
I stated that RMTs were more expensive and they do not want you buying from VS, they want you to buy from them.
 

Effort

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I stated that RMTs were more expensive and they do not want you buying from VS, they want you to buy from them.
If buying a powerscroll through RMT is more expensive than vendor search, this simply correlates to a gold:cash value; a gold value which the same prospective customer would buy from RMT, and then buy the cheaper scroll off of vendor search.

It's circular.

Do you understand how the linchpin of your entire RMT IS FIDDLING WITH THE VS SO THEY CAN SELL YOU PONIES argument falls apart in 1 sentence? At this point, you may as well say the election was stolen, I'm out of explanations to offer
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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If buying a powerscroll through RMT is more expensive than vendor search, this simply correlates to a gold:cash value; a gold value which the same prospective customer would buy from RMT, and then buy the cheaper scroll off of vendor search.
Not if that same place keeps VS jacked up to where people can never use it.
 

Pawain

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Not if that same place keeps VS jacked up to where people can never use it.
I have been using VS on Atlantic on a regular basis since the pet revamp came out. It got slow when Commission vendors appeared. Players put a single essence, gold,wood, ingot for 175M gold on vendors plus these vendors opened up everyone the ability to sell items for over 5M and those items can just sit there forever.
Atlantic also has a lot of new and returning players since Covid.
But yall go ahead and make up **** about search bots.
 

Kylie Kinslayer

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But yall go ahead and make up **** about search bots.
Can you prove it's not?

I mean the Devs seem to think that is the case.. and they have a lot more info on the subject than any of us ever will.. so, can you disprove what they say?
 

Pawain

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Can you prove it's not?

I mean the Devs seem to think that is the case.. and they have a lot more info on the subject than any of us ever will.. so, can you disprove what they say?
No the devs saw a bazillion posts on the other forum wanting EJ accounts off vendor search. They took an easy way out.
 
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