I can't and won't argue that opinion. A public auction is a very challenging situation for the community. I take it as a personal failure that Ron had to make the decision to do this.
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And this statement right here is what a lot of people do not realize. If anyone is truly interested do a quick search there is talk on various domain/website selling forums about stratics for sale on Flippa. 99% of the interested parties would for lack of better words, gut this forum. The name is brandable and can be adapted to many different outlets of the gaming industry. The domains aged and has a steady flow of native traffic.
If people want to keep stratics UO related its time to pick sides.. either fund the current gang or jump on JCs ship. Either way I hope that it doesn't end up the latter and fall in the hands of a Chinese domain investor.
I don't have a crystal ball (ignore my avatar), but my gut instincts lead me to think that an extremely high bid such as you describe is unlikely based on the site's revenue history.
I don't really know why Ron Bron decided he needed to take Stratics to auction. I do tend to think that his reasons must have been compelling. So I feel very uneasy about the idea of soliciting support for a single individual (while hurting the current campaign) in order to put pressure on him to end his auction.
But that is the best part! (if you are this 3rd party ready to rip this place to shreds)
You don't have to spend your $50,000. You only spend what we raise + $5 because this is an auction and the site is ready for investment harvesting.
I can't rule out that possibility, of course. But I also will not rule out the "angel" patrons some of the staff referenced who are quietly waiting in the wings in case more funds are needed. That was, indeed, mentioned.
Frankly, if I was a person of means, I'd give the staff however much they needed to win this auction. Unfortunately, that level of support is not possible from low income retirees.
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I fully support @JC the Builder in his pursuit of Stratics. Thank you JC for stepping up. Please let me know if I can be of help.
JC you have my support ...
However, the mention of inviting back old moderators gives me pause. Many of the old mods were absolutely terrible i.e Petra & Kelmo. and a slew of others prior to Ron taking over.
Petra was hands down the worst moderator ever on stratics...and mods like her actually caused harm to the UO community by marginalizing portions of the playersbase, and not allowing players to voice their opinion however unpopular they are.
However, the mention of inviting back old moderators gives me pause. Many of the old mods were absolutely terrible i.e Petra & Kelmo. and a slew of others prior to Ron taking over.
Petra was hands down the worst moderator ever on stratics...and mods like her actually caused harm to the UO community by marginalizing portions of the playersbase, and not allowing players to voice their opinion however unpopular they are.
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JC for President! Err, I mean owner You have my vote Sir!
Maybe you don't always agree with the moderators but if you break the forum rules then that is on you. Petra worked hard to update and maintain Stratics. This is not the place to be calling people out over personal grievances.
Since you support a Nazi style form of moderating, which obviously you do, then I'm withdrawing my support.
My post is a prime example of what I'm referring to, and your response is a prime example of what I'm talking about: "This is not the time and place...blah blah blah" BS we get time and time again from moderators.
I don't want your morality, or other moderators tell me what I can and can't say. If you don't like what I'm saying,or the topic thread don't read it or put the player on on ignore. I take issue with limiting people's freedom of speech, and have them shove their morality, and sense of right or wrong down my throat which is what has happened far too long on these boards.
I certaintly hope UOStratics doesn't falls into your hands, and that the forums go back how thing were a few years ago because it has a serious negative impact on UO and drove many players away from the board and UO in general.
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Merlin
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The HOT Forums are very toxic. And let's be frank: tone starts at the top.
I think a lot of people are naïve to believe that having one person be the dictator of the website would somehow be better than having a "small council" type board that the current moderators are suggesting.
I think a lot of people are naïve to believe that having one person be the dictator of the website would somehow be better than having a "small council" type board that the current moderators are suggesting.
I'm a little confused by all this.
You want everyone to pay for you to own Stratics? Is that it? And your credentials is because you own a couple of defunct and outdated UO related websites?
I think you're a good guy and I really don't have a problem with you, but your suggestion seems odd. You haven't played in the game in 7 years.
If you want Stratics, pony up $10,501 dollars and bid.
You want everyone to pay for you to own Stratics? Is that it? And your credentials is because you own a couple of defunct and outdated UO related websites?
I think you're a good guy and I really don't have a problem with you, but your suggestion seems odd. You haven't played in the game in 7 years.
If you want Stratics, pony up $10,501 dollars and bid.
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And a lot more risky.
Petra was insanely toxic when it came to discussions. Either she couldn't comprehend the discussion at hand, or her pure hatred for anything related to fel would just result in an instant thread lock.
Should you acquire stratics I would highly recommend letting the community vote as to what moderators you choose to bring back...
Personally I'd like to stay out of a debate about posting and what-not.... but I'll say this. People should be able to express their opinions. They should have the right to debate and disagree... And if folk don't share in your opinion does not make them wrong or bad...
Problem I have witnessed over the years is not only pet people getting away with things that other folk would NEVER be allowed to say or do... but folk getting banned on the whim and wish of a mod who might have been having a bad day or whatever without real cause.
Also I would be extremely disappointed to be pushed back to the pure pompom wavers R us... that was going on before. Not being able to tell the DEVs when something is BAD and needs to be FIXED because you're afraid to hurt their feelings is not right either. If it was we'd be stuck with that hideous sun/moon dial looking like it did. Now yes... I'll admit sometimes some of us can be a bit harsh. But as I've maintained before its from a love of this game not from wanting to be vindictive. Just frustration and irritation in seeing things ignored. Since those with strong opinions about the game and such have an equally strong love for the game. IMO
Now if you could bring back some communication with the DEVs that'd be great and whatnot but I'm not going to support going back to the censorship of opinions.
I can see removing personal attacks... but there is a difference between having a difference of opinions and attacking someone. I've seen folk harassed with nothing done in the past... I've seen the mildest things get folk banned. People have to realize that folk have bad days.... everyone has seen "drunk" posting... anger posting and everything else... But honestly toxic folk who never offer anything but criticism to other players are not good either. There are many of those who still post on this forum on a regular basis. They neither offer help or suggestions (beyond rudeness)... to others. But many of us have spent countless hours trying to improve UO and help other players.
Also to all you who say that Stratics is not "official" I know of at least one instance where a person was told by EA Help that they needed to post HERE to get "help"... So if it's not the "official" forum... why would they do that? Because this is the ONLY forum really to reach the DEVs. Otherwise all you have is Email.. which then your left never knowing if it was read or received.
Problem I have witnessed over the years is not only pet people getting away with things that other folk would NEVER be allowed to say or do... but folk getting banned on the whim and wish of a mod who might have been having a bad day or whatever without real cause.
Also I would be extremely disappointed to be pushed back to the pure pompom wavers R us... that was going on before. Not being able to tell the DEVs when something is BAD and needs to be FIXED because you're afraid to hurt their feelings is not right either. If it was we'd be stuck with that hideous sun/moon dial looking like it did. Now yes... I'll admit sometimes some of us can be a bit harsh. But as I've maintained before its from a love of this game not from wanting to be vindictive. Just frustration and irritation in seeing things ignored. Since those with strong opinions about the game and such have an equally strong love for the game. IMO
Now if you could bring back some communication with the DEVs that'd be great and whatnot but I'm not going to support going back to the censorship of opinions.
I can see removing personal attacks... but there is a difference between having a difference of opinions and attacking someone. I've seen folk harassed with nothing done in the past... I've seen the mildest things get folk banned. People have to realize that folk have bad days.... everyone has seen "drunk" posting... anger posting and everything else... But honestly toxic folk who never offer anything but criticism to other players are not good either. There are many of those who still post on this forum on a regular basis. They neither offer help or suggestions (beyond rudeness)... to others. But many of us have spent countless hours trying to improve UO and help other players.
Also to all you who say that Stratics is not "official" I know of at least one instance where a person was told by EA Help that they needed to post HERE to get "help"... So if it's not the "official" forum... why would they do that? Because this is the ONLY forum really to reach the DEVs. Otherwise all you have is Email.. which then your left never knowing if it was read or received.
That's the most crazy I ever had heard, in my mind, she was one of the best mod/admins ever and as a Siege player, I don't think she have any hate to fel.
This thread is not about old mods and admins, it's about how to save Stratics.
Sure!
from the way i look at it, having 8members who if they fail dont even have the option to sell the site to someone who can keep it running is a lot more risk. (at least thats they way i understand how it works, it says the site can never be sold)
Anyone who is familiar with JC knows he can run a site, and is dedicated to sites he runs with no profits expected. I feel he also repects and values the original feel of stratics, and is in touch with gaming and what users specific to UO want.
Plus the added possibility that like JC said, if the crowdfunding is simply overbid by a private investor who wants the site name, there is nothing that can be done.
alot of people, myself included, would see having JC as owner as alot Less risk. but like all things everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
He's already stated he doesn't want any money. He does want this to be settled out of auction so 3rd parties cannot swoop in with a last second high bid.
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I'd just like to point out that on Flippa it already says "reserve met" which means the seller now has an obligation to whoever wins the auction. It is too late to settle this in some way not involving Flippa. If the seller did that it would be extremely dishonorable and would be an insult to every person who bid on the auction since it would essentially be backing out of a sale that was already agreed upon by the bid being over the reserve price.
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The OP said he would bring back old Mods. Old Vet is making a fair point about how this is a rather faulty idea and proposal.
This thread is about the future of stratics, which includes the style of moderating that's going to take place.
The "This is not the time and place" mentality is the PC way of saying "Shut up. I don't agree with you. I don't want to hear anything else you have to say" while pretending to take the moral high ground.
This is exactly the time and place.
It's like a politician running for office asking for you vote, and your asking how he feels on topics like foreign policy, abortion, legalization of drugs, and your told "this is not the time and place...."
Many of UOStratics best and brighters posters no longer visit these boards because of the style of moderating that was prevalent in the past.
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As a member and poster on Hot Forums
Want me to site every little thing she has derailed that was about fel, pvp and game balance? Because I can tell you that there has been at least 3 times in the past 30days.
And stating my feelings about Petra is completely valid if Link is wanting to include every mod (past and present) in his taking over of stratics. It is one simple reason why I would never back Link because of his intent.
I completely agree with you.
If you looked at the forums between 2003-2010 I kept the most civil run forum where PVPers posted in UO. The issue there now is there has not been a full time moderator in 3 years after our last guy said he couldn't do it anymore.
If you or anyone else is looking for drastic changes in how the Stratics forums are run then you will be disappointed.
As the Stratics senior staff and the Bring Stratics Home campaign team, we want to say that we have a deep respect for UOGuide and the valuable function it fulfills as a resource to the UO Community as a whole. It was clearly a labor of love and it fills a niche that Stratics -- over time and its many ownership changes -- had begun to put less focus on over the years. In recognition of that, the team has had many internal conversations regarding the benefits it would bring both sites to develop a closer relationship with JC and UOGuide.
As part of the Wiki project to migrate and merge Stratics' historical content back in with the rest of the main site, an increase in cooperation and communication would allow us to prioritize and focus on updating the types of content that was always one of our strengths, and which remains unique to Stratics -- the community-written profession and craft essays, calculators, tools, and guides that made Stratics the original go-to resource for "how to play UO." We'd absolutely be open to those discussions should the campaign to Bring Stratics Home be successful, and we look forward to working together in that capacity to ensure that the community has access to the best and most useful content it can have...and what an amazing result that would be!
That being said, we are surprised and disappointed that @JC the Builder didn't choose to reach out to our team directly to discuss ways to work together to overcome the challenges and difficulties this auction presents. As professionals -- and, it should be pointed out, volunteers and UO Community members ourselves -- surely our common cause is to stand together to unify rather than fracture that community, as that is the best chance we have to REMAIN a community. Together we are strong...but acting individually we create islands and factions that are in direct opposition to the idea of community and the success of Stratics, the place where we gather to share our experiences and seek out the advice of our friends.
Insofar as some of the questions and mis-information that have been put forth by the OP and follow-up posts, we believe we've been pretty transparent in our proposal and in our campaign. However, we invite the community to reach out with any questions or concerns you might have about our proposed structure, and how we would steward the site under that organizational model. As we've said, we are in the process of drafting our charter, but we're happy to answer anything we can.
As always, we welcome the input and advice we've received from the community. We've been humbled by your overwhelming support. If the community is successful in this campaign, it's our intent to continue to do everything we can to maintain your confidence and trust in the months and years to come.
~ the Bring Stratics Home campaign team
http://igg.me/at/BringStraticsHome
As part of the Wiki project to migrate and merge Stratics' historical content back in with the rest of the main site, an increase in cooperation and communication would allow us to prioritize and focus on updating the types of content that was always one of our strengths, and which remains unique to Stratics -- the community-written profession and craft essays, calculators, tools, and guides that made Stratics the original go-to resource for "how to play UO." We'd absolutely be open to those discussions should the campaign to Bring Stratics Home be successful, and we look forward to working together in that capacity to ensure that the community has access to the best and most useful content it can have...and what an amazing result that would be!
That being said, we are surprised and disappointed that @JC the Builder didn't choose to reach out to our team directly to discuss ways to work together to overcome the challenges and difficulties this auction presents. As professionals -- and, it should be pointed out, volunteers and UO Community members ourselves -- surely our common cause is to stand together to unify rather than fracture that community, as that is the best chance we have to REMAIN a community. Together we are strong...but acting individually we create islands and factions that are in direct opposition to the idea of community and the success of Stratics, the place where we gather to share our experiences and seek out the advice of our friends.
Insofar as some of the questions and mis-information that have been put forth by the OP and follow-up posts, we believe we've been pretty transparent in our proposal and in our campaign. However, we invite the community to reach out with any questions or concerns you might have about our proposed structure, and how we would steward the site under that organizational model. As we've said, we are in the process of drafting our charter, but we're happy to answer anything we can.
As always, we welcome the input and advice we've received from the community. We've been humbled by your overwhelming support. If the community is successful in this campaign, it's our intent to continue to do everything we can to maintain your confidence and trust in the months and years to come.
~ the Bring Stratics Home campaign team
http://igg.me/at/BringStraticsHome
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If it was possible to give this more than one like, I would.
@JC the Builder @Elenni
Honestly you are both being rather unprofessional and acting like politicians trying to get votes. It's plain stupid. I'm done with both conversations because you are all clearly attempting to manipulate people to swing one way or another.
YOU ARE THE ONES CAUSING THE DIVIDE THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING OF BY CREATING A DIALOG OF BACK AND FOURTH RHETORIC.
Good luck cause at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if you both don't win due to your complete idiocy on how you're handling this.
Honestly you are both being rather unprofessional and acting like politicians trying to get votes. It's plain stupid. I'm done with both conversations because you are all clearly attempting to manipulate people to swing one way or another.
YOU ARE THE ONES CAUSING THE DIVIDE THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING OF BY CREATING A DIALOG OF BACK AND FOURTH RHETORIC.
Good luck cause at this rate I wouldn't be surprised if you both don't win due to your complete idiocy on how you're handling this.
@Elenni as asked, here are two questions.
with 8 members, no owner, if the site falls into disrepair, unstable platform, corrupt / egotistical / disrspectful admins. basically, if theres problems with the site linked to one, or multiples of the 8 board members, what is the procedure for removal and replacement? Since the community is being asked to fund the site, will the community also be involved in this process? One reason i like the idea of JC being owner is because this wouldnt be an issue, most have full confidence that he would be able to handle internal problems like this efficiently and effectively.
Also, who will be running the site? with all due respect, the experience of the expected board members is extremely low compared with JC the Builders, as well as the experience of past staff who were pushed out of stratics (fired/quit/etc). Will some of the money donated be used to hire an outside source to handle the fundamentals of the site? Do you have any current plans for who will do this proposed integration that was just a flop over the past year? Are there any plans to make stratics look, function, and feel more like the well-known original?
with 8 members, no owner, if the site falls into disrepair, unstable platform, corrupt / egotistical / disrspectful admins. basically, if theres problems with the site linked to one, or multiples of the 8 board members, what is the procedure for removal and replacement? Since the community is being asked to fund the site, will the community also be involved in this process? One reason i like the idea of JC being owner is because this wouldnt be an issue, most have full confidence that he would be able to handle internal problems like this efficiently and effectively.
Also, who will be running the site? with all due respect, the experience of the expected board members is extremely low compared with JC the Builders, as well as the experience of past staff who were pushed out of stratics (fired/quit/etc). Will some of the money donated be used to hire an outside source to handle the fundamentals of the site? Do you have any current plans for who will do this proposed integration that was just a flop over the past year? Are there any plans to make stratics look, function, and feel more like the well-known original?
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I don't why you're scolding Elenni.
She didn't start this, and her posts have been logical and extremely courteous. Surely she has the right to explain what the staff is doing and why she feels it's a good thing.
Is that a thread lock?
Who says you have to pick a side? I am not asking for any money. If you want to donate money I encorage everyone to visit the fundraiser page.
I am just offering to become the owner of Stratics whether or not I have to pay for it.
because her post comes off as a cold / scripted / PC statement. it probably would have been best kept to PM or in a seperate thread that addressed some of her concerns. this thread was supposed to be a simple "yes" or "no", not a discussion.I don't why you're scolding Elenni.
JC, I wish I knew enough to say a simple yes or no. All I can say is that uoguide has always been without a doubt one of the most valuable resources for me. And if you're the same Link with the avatar of the cat with the bandana that wrote the guide of how to build a sampire, that was also one of my most valuable resources at the time. But when it comes to knowing what it means to own and operate Stratics, and whether that should be you or the group that's trying to raise the money - or whether you should just try to put in the high bid at auction - sorry, I simply don't know enough to vote one way or the other. Best wishes to all who love stratics and UO.
I don't think her post is cold or scripted. I do agree that the subject of this thread should have been private to begin with. Had it been kept between JC and the staff, I'm sure it could have been sorted out between them without causing all this distress.
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She was right to post it here. Whether we like it or not, this is a campaign, with different groups vying for support.
Her statement was thought out and well written. The moderator's plan for how Stratics will be bought and handled has been expotentially more transparent than the proposal of this thread's OP.
You're questioning what happens if a few of the board members have disagreements with how the site is run, well what if a sole-proprietor totally screws everything up? It works both ways. With a board of people, there will be different personalities in touch with different aspects of the community with different skills and responsibilities in different areas. I don't see how this is some how worse off than a one-man crew making every decision.
Is anything on this website ever a simple "yes or no" discussion? I'm afraid not. Just as the moderator's plans for the site is up for discussion, so is JC's.
I've nothing against any of them. I just hope and pray that it goes to someone who won't just wipe it and close it down.
Losing the Stratics forums and all the information on monsters and everything else on Stratics would be one heck of a blow to the community as a whole. So much information here and on UOGuide. Neither of which I'd care to put a price tag on in terms of their value to the community and the game I couldn't possibly say.
I'm just going to pray it stays in the community and that there isn't any bad negative fallout from all this.
Losing the Stratics forums and all the information on monsters and everything else on Stratics would be one heck of a blow to the community as a whole. So much information here and on UOGuide. Neither of which I'd care to put a price tag on in terms of their value to the community and the game I couldn't possibly say.
I'm just going to pray it stays in the community and that there isn't any bad negative fallout from all this.
I agree for the most part. I still wish the two sides could have hashed it over together before it came to this.
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@JC the Builder - Have you had any relationship developed with the Broadsword/UO Staff previously with your UO Guide site? If so, please describe and your plan for how you will improve Stratics' relationship.
Also, if you're serious about improving this site, what is preventing you from reaching out to the current moderators to join their bid and do it together?
Also, if you're serious about improving this site, what is preventing you from reaching out to the current moderators to join their bid and do it together?
I don't think it is appropriate to say anything about the relationship between UOGuide and the UO Team. I can say it was handled by other UOGuide staff members.
I think the UO Team would be happy to see Stratics under a stable owner again. The current UO Stratics staff should have no problem continuing things on as they have been for 18 years.
I have been in contact with various Stratics staff since the moment I found out about this sale. Of course certain details need to be kept confidential, including about the bidding.
I think the real tragedy about the sale of this site, is it wasn't offered to the staff first and if no interest was shown, to the community.
Putting it up for sale on a public auction without first offering it to the community, well, is just a damn shame.
Putting it up for sale on a public auction without first offering it to the community, well, is just a damn shame.
Perhaps i was a bit harsh myself, i know everyone is trying their best and have their own strengths and weaknesses. That being said, this thread Was a very simple question, and about half these posts have nothing to with what JC originally simply asked.
kina wees alls just get along?
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