My first UO suspension

[Lord Drakelord]

I use that site all the time as well to help with quests and information when making items in game. One of the best there is for showing clear and percise steps in doing things in game.

As for guild links, I not even going to have one of those in my profiles, how many of you have seen at guild pages, where mates leaving UO are selling UO accounts for real cash, they might look at that as they did at the UOguild link. Hell even at our PAS site we have a vet selling off an account.

 

[Snakeman]

Whispering rose radio is posted on the fof which is posted on the herald on UOs main website, Others can send in their legit websites or events to be posted on the fof also, but that does not mean the Devs support the sites nor do they get on the game sit there and spam websites or have them written in their profiles on the game.
----

Basicly they started cracking down on websites being spammed or written in profiles not just for selling in game items, but also illegal websites, and ones that might have a key logger on them to protected the players.

Maybe EA should start by enforcing their own rules Ie: UO Herald/FOF when they post sites & event links to sites with ref's to items or gold being able to be bought for RL cash. Because clearly, right at the top of one well know site, is an ad for Selling Gold, PS's. kits Etc

for cash...
Clearly whats unacceptable for one, is also not acceptable for another. UO's referral adds should also be scrutinized & subject to the same.

 

[Gwendar-SP]

Maybe EA should start by enforcing their own rules Ie: UO Herald/FOF when they post sites & event links to sites with ref's to items or gold being able to be bought for RL cash. Because clearly, right at the top of one well know site, is an ad for Selling Gold, PS's. kits Etc

for cash...
Clearly whats unacceptable for one, is also not acceptable for another. UO's referral adds should also be scrutinized & subject to the same.

And anyone making an offer like that is probably a duper.

 

[Landicine]

The only thing i dont understand is why they let you advertise the guild url.
Both should go.

I'm going to explain this very simply. If they did ban for the guild url, they would have to ban most entire guilds that add their URL as part of the guild url option. Check uo.com to see many many guilds that have their URL listed because it is an option but in by the game itself! That would be like banning people for smelting weapons or killing monsters.

Also the exact terms of the URL rule are:

"You will not post the web site address (URL) to any sites which contain sexual material, content which could harm or disrupt another user’s personal network and computer, or content which violates the Electronic Arts Terms of Service.

The rule that is being broken here is:

"With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site."

My biggest problem with EA's rules enforcement is that they barely enforce them, and usually you have to **** off a GM or player before they bother to enforce their policies. Take the naming policy for example.

http://support.ea.com/cgi-bin/ea.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=1760

Apparently Exodus and Mondain aren't allowed, but my shard has a few of them. I've seen vulgar names and third party trademark names. I'm betting these aren't going to be touched unless a GM is bored.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

Maybe it is just a joke. I saw Link at the Brit Bank last night wearing a V-C tag selling items... I think this is just all a publicity stunt.

 

[AmanitaMuscaria]

Here's a link to directly where he is selling items for RL $$:

(deleted link to comply with board rules; to get there, go to the UOGuide website and then click on the Item Shoppe tab on the side.)

Selling an armor set for $250!

 

[Harlequin]

in 6, you forgot to mention sites that sell anything, including anything non-uo related.

Quite true, they didn't mention that it applies to only UO-related items. So it applies to non UO-related stuff too.

I tried. Have fun kicking the football Charlie Brown.

Hey, I like Charlie Brown!

 

[Kith Kanan]

just be glad they did not perma ban you and delete ya house................

 

[Harb]

um ... I would remind everyone that JC has a long history of faking screenshots to create random chaos.

Maybe I missed something somewhere along the way, but through several boards, including this one, he has always come accross to me as dedicated to the game and community, reasoned, experienced, non-combative and thorough in his posts (not including his tendency to post "gags," for lack of a better term. None have seemed ill-willed). Same with you sir, this "shot" not included Again, unless I missed something - which is possible!

However, there really isn't a "bad" guy here (well, maybe one - the seemingly bitter player that felt it important to report such a trivial issue). His website is definitively not an after market sales operation, he sells two low density items to recover costs for the effort there. But he does sell two items. Stratics has a different program to accomplish the same goal. From my view, neither is ethically "wrong," and both contribute strongly to this community. Due to issues long past, GMs lost most in game authority, interactive tools and interpretive flexibility. Based upon changes in hiring demographic and structure there, and both age and experience gaps that exist today between many players and the staff, we probably can never return to where we once were. I missed the public service announcement that we could not reference URLs in game, for years I've referred players to Stratics and more recently also to UOGuide. I suspect I won't cease doing so, but now at least am aware I do so at my own risk - an issue I'll be happy to discuss with anyone in a decision making capacity at EA/ Mythic/ Dev (which does not include the GM staff, they are merely implementing policy at this juncture in the game).

 

[RaDian FlGith]

My problem with this all, of course, is it is part of an inconsistent stance on the part of Mythic. Let's forget for a moment that the Rules of Conduct are different between the Ultima Online website where you'd expect people might look for them, and the ones you find listed on EA's support site, which of course makes me wonder just which ones I might be agreeing to...

And seeing that the ones listed on the actual Ultima Online website don't actually mention anything about not listing external URLs in-game, much less specify what is okay and what isn't, it leaves me to wonder where in teh world this silly rule came from anyway, but let's move on to...

8. With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site.

The problem I have here is that the words "market, promote or advertise" and "solicitiation" mean that someone is actively sending someone to these sites in order to make a purchase. It means that someone is (1) spamming in the game saying "Go here, buy this," or even "Go here,"; (2) telling someone in-game, "I know where you can buy that for real UO money,"; (3) standing around saying, "Look at my profile for a list of places to buy stuff."

The act of including a link in one's profile is NOT, by any stretch of that rule, an advertisement or solicitation. And considering the site in question, it's a bit ludicrous to say, "Sorry, you can't mention that site because it does sell stuff," overlooking the fact that it is also among the most current of references to UO, being more current than both UO's own website (which still shows interface pictures from the 3D client in spots, and NONE from the KR client) and UO Stratics, the "de facto" fan website.

And therein is the problem. Listing a link is one thing. Telling someone to go visit a site for info is one thing. Do any of us believe that JC was standing around saying, "Hey, go buy something from this link in my profile?" I don't. Did the GM even bother to check the context? No, I'm betting he didn't.

This kind of "no tolerance" idiocy is what makes "no tolerance" rule stupid, and I won't even begin to go into how ironic that a game that is based around the virtues it is based around should have a "no tolerance" policy for this...

I mean, honestly, given the number of times that GMs have personally referred me to Stratics, which has banner ads that help it make money to keep its service running, tells me that the GM staff should be fired. Which would ALSO be an idiotic thing to do, but if we're going to embrace idiocy over logic, let's embrace it wholeheartedly.

 

[MolaRom]

just be glad they did not perma ban you and delete ya house................

perhaps that would have been more appropriate... guys like this are ruining this game... at least now EA is building a case against him and next time maybe he will be banned.

 

[Harb]

isn't this thread a violation of stratics new policy? it's pretty clear that uoguide sells uo items for cash, and i can see the website in the first post.

Noted. Please, any further comments of this nature should be made to [email protected] or a UO Stratics Administrator directly and not publicly.

One of the things that Stratics does very well is to interpret intent, which they should be applauded for. There is no violation of the "spirit" of the law here, go team go.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Here's a link to directly where he is selling items for RL $$:

(deleted link to comply with board rules; to get there, go to the UOGuide website and then click on the Item Shoppe tab on the side.)

Selling an armor set for $250!

Who woke you up in time to cause problems again? Sure, he's got items for sale there. Have you read the context in which he's selling those items? Dear lord, trying to raise funds to keep an active site active is a crime, isn't it?

Simple question... Was he standing around asking someone to make a purchase? Or does he simply have the link in his profile because (1) he created the site and (2) because it's a good source of information about UO?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he also specifies on that page the monies earned and spent, and I don't recall seeing a ton of banner ads on UO Guide, so, uh... can it already?

 

[Crysta]

Did you miss the topic about this exact thing about a week to a week and a half ago or something, JC?

 

[RaDian FlGith]

perhaps that would have been more appropriate... guys like this are ruining this game... at least now EA is building a case against him and next time maybe he will be banned.

Wrong. Ding. Thanks for playing.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Did you miss the topic about this exact thing about a week to a week and a half ago or something, JC?

Not sure if he did, but I'm pretty sure I did -- and if someone goes and finds the thread and it turns out that I made a comment in it, I certainly didn't commit it to memory if that's the case.

If Mythic's not going to bother with intent, and not even going to bother looking at the "sales" in question, and not going to bother to see if someone was actually soliciting something, then this whole discussion is moot, because Mythic's got major problems.

A link in a profile, some place they give you to place text as you see fit, is something completely different than soliciting sales. I haven't seen the original profile, but I'm doubting it said, "Support UO Guide by buying items from this link..." I'm going to go out on a limb and say it consisted simply as a link.

 

[Harb]

perhaps that would have been more appropriate... guys like this are ruining this game... at least now EA is building a case against him and next time maybe he will be banned.

You either have be insincere, or unaware of the content and genesis of JC's website. Few things would cause me to become agressive with EA, banning this guy would provoke strong reaction from me. For many a moon, Stratics was the UO bible. Expansion, mass of content, refocused efforts toward boards stemming from an agreement with then OSI, and probably things I'm unaware of, have all caused much of the information on Stratics outside of the boards themselves to become dated. As an unusually dedicated player, JC created his own site to maintain up to date information in the form of a guide. Whether you like the man or hate him, this has been a commendable effort. Whether it's a player uniquely maintaining an incredible site through countless hours of effort, event and community organizers, or board hosts - these are among the folks we all should be grateful toward for sustaining our game this long.

 

[Emil Ispep]

With the exception of the sale of in-game items for in-game items or services, you may not market, promote or advertise anything, or make any other form of solicitation (including pyramid schemes and chain letters) through the Ultima Online service or Ultima Online web site.

So what about tokens through the uogamecodes site? I think that falls under this rule vioation.. Jeremy, GMs.. any person with a brain at EA (yea right)

I wish you the best JC. If it were me however, i would be on the phone with my lawyer.

 

[o2bavr6]

I personally think that it's a huge waste of GM resources.

How many of us have paged GM's to wait for hours and then not even get to talk to one, yet someone says a URL in game or has one in their profile and poof a GM appears??

There are so many more important issues with the game right now, but I guess this truly is typical for EA.

I would swear they have filters in their ears that say the exact opposite of what someone is telling them :loser:

 

[Cyrah]

Well you sure burst my idea that "HOT" players were funny as...

I thought you guys wrote all those hilarious books. Now I find out it's just common old game drama.

 

[love2winalot]

I had a 24 hr Bann over 8 years ago when OSI ran the show. It was a little similar to JCs. I had the url for my website selling gambling information in my profile. Good thing the GM did not go to my house, as it was named after the same url..........

I mean, how many people go around reading others profiles anymore anyway? 9 of 10 are blank nowadays.

 

[JC the Builder]

This isn't a joke. Here is a transcript from my saved journal.

Link: why am I here?
[GM]: Greetings, this is GM [Name Removed].
[GM]: You are here because your profile is soliciting websites.
Link: it is just our guild website
Link: and the uo info one
[GM]: The second website is not, and has at least one item for sale for out of game money.
Link: I'll remove it then
[GM]: The guild website is fine, the second one is not.
Link: Ok I took it out
[GM]: Your account will be recieving a 24 Hour suspension for this violation.
Link: What
[GM]: That is the minimum suspension we can issue.
Link: that is unfair
[GM]: You may dispute the action through contact information in the email.
[GM]: Please remove the second website from your profile now. The guild site should be fine.
Link: that is outrageous
Link: I already did
[GM]: OK, and you understand that soliciting out of game services is prohibited in Ultima Online?
Link: I didn't solicit anything
[GM]: By displaying the website you were in violation of our policy.
Link: I doubt it
[GM]: In this case there is a shop portion of the website selling items for cash.
Link: to support the website itself
Link: not for profit
[GM]: However, I would advise you that any out of game service is include din the policy.
Link: The website is even mentioned in five on fridays on the official UO website
[GM]: In general advertising websites is not a good idea.
Link: I'm sure there are other players waiting for a GM
Link: just finish it
[GM]: Alright, we will begin your suspension now.
GM, Legendary Arcanist kicked you.

As for the people going on about how evil it is to try selling game items to support a website, that is a lot more difficult then to take the offers I've been getting for people to place their ads on there. At least there would be plenty of money to fund UOGuide that way instead of the current nothing (no item sales and no donations in about 3 months).

 

[Cynic]

This is complete BS!

From time to time you can find posts on the STRATICS trade forums, or even on shard forums, for items being sold and payed for with cash.

What is even worse is that a GM will waste their time investigating and then suspending someone for something that is so incredibly harmless over the 100% obvious hackers/cheaters that you can find on any shard that has PvP.

Speedhacks - OK!
UOGUIDE.COM - BANHAMMER!

EA.. tell me.. do you outsource your customer service to India or do you intentionally hire complete morons?

 

[Kral]

This is complete BS!

From time to time you can find posts on the STRATICS trade forums, or even on shard forums, for items being sold and payed for with cash.

What is even worse is that a GM will waste their time investigating and then suspending someone for something that is so incredibly harmless over the 100% obvious hackers/cheaters that you can find on any shard that has PvP.

Speedhacks - OK!
UOGUIDE.COM - BANHAMMER!

EA.. tell me.. do you outsource your customer service to India or do you intentionally hire complete morons?

Keep in mind that Stratics does not control the content of the advertising banners on the Stratics sites.

And in the past sites who advertise money / game items exchanges have bought space on the Stratics banner advertising space.

Going to be very funny of one of those sites buys ad' space again.....

 

[Kral]

I mean, how many people go around reading others profiles anymore anyway? 9 of 10 are blank nowadays.

Who reads profiles? The same people who try to figure out if your AFK at the bank and page on you.

Some people think PvP stands for Player vs. Page.

 

[Bomb Bloke]

What I wanna know is whether they can get a non-template response out from their "despute system" before the suspension is lifted.

This adds more fuel to the URL rules debate. If advertising links UO has themselves advertised is illegal, then the entire rules system either needs serious re-definition or serious explanation.

The phrase "In general advertising websites is not a good idea" sounds to me like an attempt at friendly advise - He knows the rules suck, and that's the best he can do to explain them.

But when push comes to shove, enforcing the suspension is prejudace. I concur that only a page would've brought this about. I've linked UOGuide in the past, and doubt I'll see any repercussions for doing so in the future.

 

[Landicine]

perhaps that would have been more appropriate... guys like this are ruining this game... at least now EA is building a case against him and next time maybe he will be banned.

Was this a joke? Or are you just insane?

The case can easily be made that duper and scripters and griefers are or have already hurt the game, but to say someone running an informational wiki on UO when uo.com's own playguide is inadequate is ruining the game is madness. This would be like saying Stratics has ruined the game for having tons of informational pages on how the game actually works. In my opinion, sites like uoguide and stratics help games like UO a lot. Maybe they hurt immersion for a few roleplayers (and not even the majority of roleplayers), but that's the only legitimate complaint my mind could even imagine.

Is there a method to your madness? A reason for your comment? Or should we start searching our secures for bows of troll slaughter?

I few more things about this bother me:

1. "That is the minimum suspension we can issue." Is this actually the policy? I would say there are situations that warrant punishments other than 24-hours and perma-ban.

2. Someone must have reported it, since I don't see GMs randomly looking through people's profiles for sites and then searching those sites for small links to a site's shop. This means the GM listened to this person enough to go to this page and find the relatively tiny green banner. However, has anyone seen a GM actually do anything when scripters are reported? Isn't scripting worst than this?

3. This is a rule that is inconsistently enforced. For example, I went to the uo.com and looked through 10 random guilds on the Top 10 Guild listing. Of these, 4 had things that could be considered to break this same rule (banners to gold selling sites, trade forums where people were selling accounts for cash, links to websites with which the guild had a business arrangement, Google ads). I would imagine any guilds that use free boards have ads on them selling something. I'm betting there are a lot of guilds that have links on their sites to gold dealers. I'm betting there are a ton of guilds that have trade forums and public talks about selling accounts for cash. I don't consider any of these 24-hour ban worthy, and it sucks even more when only a few are punished for it.

4. Some one probably has a grudge against the person involved in all this. JC, you probably want to be extra careful for a bit since it is very likely someone is out to get you and will be ready to page a GM at the first hint. Again, I don't think a GM read your profile, went to uoguide, scrolled down to the small green banner thing, and tossed you in jail on his own. I think someone paged to complain.

 

[RenaLynne]

Seriously? Little rediculous imo.

 

[Vyrquenox]

The GM Staff should take a few minutes to review each alleged violation for seriousness and intent. I would think that removing the website address should be enough, especially since you immediately offered to remove it.

I understand why we have to have such regulations since there are unscrupulous people that cannot police themselves. A little more personalized attention from the GM Staff and Customer Service would be very appreciated.

When the only communication involved in every help request and inquiry, regardless of topic, is mostly template emails and copy/paste text, it makes people wonder if the same logic is applied in all situations, including major violations and bannings.

The name of the game is if you need help of some kind nobody but a bot will direct you to a website, but if you skew off the straight line a tiny bit they are actually personally there to punish you.

This is straight bull and dipstick head up above who gloated that you got 'caught' in your 'nefarious act' should consider buying some fresh brillo.

 

[Wcheezer]

JC, normally I don't agree with anything you say or do, however in this case, I think that a 24 hour ban is COMPLETELY unwarranted.

I find it sad that the idiot GM's have time to find a website on your paperdoll, but don't have the time or inclination to get off their collective asses and find and ban scripters and cheaters.

Want to know whats wrong with UO. This is a classic example of it.

 

[Jasonleebeck]

What I don't understand, is, why in your journal are you clicking on a dungeon wall, if you're also typing to the GM?

 

[Vyrquenox]

This is complete BS!

From time to time you can find posts on the STRATICS trade forums, or even on shard forums, for items being sold and payed for with cash.

What is even worse is that a GM will waste their time investigating and then suspending someone for something that is so incredibly harmless over the 100% obvious hackers/cheaters that you can find on any shard that has PvP.

Speedhacks - OK!
UOGUIDE.COM - BANHAMMER!

EA.. tell me.. do you outsource your customer service to India or do you intentionally hire complete morons?

I don't know about all their CS but I know for a fact at least a portion of it is outsourced to India, and you can bet your bottom dollar over there if they are told to suspend people for saying 'rate' because somebody made a typo they will immediately begin suspending people for saying rate. They aren't concerned about discretion rational or fairness, just in following orders, because they are 100% disposable given the stream of replacements available.

 

[JC the Builder]

What I don't understand, is, why in your journal are you clicking on a dungeon wall, if you're also typing to the GM?

I was trying to find the secret passage.

 

[Omnius]

You advertise your website in game! big no no! Unless it's approved by the EA staff you don't do things like that. Especially when you're dealing with an issue that brings unwanted attention.

 

[Limlight]

I would have preffered to see a ban for stealing the towers of rares that led to this:

http://www.hot-guild.com/raresale.html

 

[Doomsday Dragon]

I may not agree with you on much JC but this really is a bit silly for them to do. I mean UOGuide? What is so bad about UOGuide that they need to take action. The only thing at the site is useful information and I never saw any links on the page to places with illegal utilities either.

 

[JC the Builder]

I would have preffered to see a ban for stealing the towers of rares that led to this

That is just more stuff the haters' made up.

 

[Ailish]

4. Some one probably has a grudge against the person involved in all this. JC, you probably want to be extra careful for a bit since it is very likely someone is out to get you and will be ready to page a GM at the first hint. Again, I don't think a GM read your profile, went to uoguide, scrolled down to the small green banner thing, and tossed you in jail on his own. I think someone paged to complain.

For those that are not aware, there was more to this thread that was removed due to personal attacks, etc. The person who paged came here and admitted he paged, and also admitted that he did it as retribution for being banned from JC's guild forums, although he did attempt to put more spin on it.

It is true, however, that per line of the ROC and consistent with GM actions over the last year, the site is in violation.

I might suggest to you, JC, that for the better good, you remove your Shoppe and instead put a blurb "If you would like discuss ways in which you can help support UOGuide, please contact me here" with a link to your site admin e-mail addy.

I will be the first to admit I don't like JC very much, however I completely despise people such as the pager who go around looking for a way to get someone in trouble.

 

[walter_mitty]

the rares from the wintermoore towers also are on sale on his site

 

[Harb]

I would have preffered to see a ban for stealing the towers of rares that led to this:

http://www.hot-guild.com/raresale.html

Hmmm, enlighten us please. Seriously, "stealing" is a harsh/ accusitive term and not feasible within my understanding of game mechanics. I'm not taking sides here, and this seems an emotional issue to you. What's your view/ the issue/ history if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Omnius]

sacking a piece of shard history is disgusting. Doing it to make rl money is worse.

 

[Limlight]

But its on your website?

 

[MolaRom]

he is just trying to wesal out of it! it's on HIS HOT website and he is taking offers with HIS info. he got caught and it now trying to backtrack. scum.

 

[Limlight]

Hmmm, enlighten us please. Seriously, "stealing" is a harsh/ accusitive term and not feasible within my understanding of game mechanics. I'm not taking sides here, and this seems an emotional issue to you. What's your view/ the issue/ history if you don't mind me asking?

The history is the Wintermoore Musuems went IDOC...I noticed it in Fairly Worn stage.

I followed them daily and then prepared to camp them the morning they went IDOC. Problem was...an hour or so after IDOC status...they became owned by Grayson and Link...and I saw now transfer happen.

Now, I am all for saving history...but just handing someone billions of gold in items is stupid. Not to mention they are all being sold now.

 

[GreedyBytch]

Seems to me you only care that you did not get it. I'm all for taking anything and everything I want whether it beg, borrow or steal. I am the "greedybytch." But if someone gets it before me more power to em. Give it a rest. You lost.:loser:

 

[Harb]

...they became owned by Grayson and Link

It became owned by two different players?

...and I saw now transfer happen.

How did it happen?

Now, I am all for saving history...but just handing someone billions of gold in items is stupid. Not to mention they are all being sold now.

I've studied history all my life, and applaud you for your intersts in preserving what can be preserved. Selling, or alternatively maintaining a structure and contents as they are, is a decision only the owner can make. Selling the items per se doesn't necessarily void history - auctions sell preserves all the time in real life, and is very much a perspective driven decision. Personally, in possession of the building/ items, like you I'd leave it as is, but in this case, it simply isn't my call to make. I'll commment further once the questions are answered. Best of luck!

 

[walter_mitty]

both link and Grayson belong to the same guy also is a rares seller

 

[OxAO]

you host UOguide.com?

If so did EA ever send you a message of any kind not to sell products on your site?

If not then this ban is wrong.
If they did then then the mistake would be yours.

Thank you for hosting Uoguide.com it is a great site!

 

[JC the Builder]

Lets try and keep these events separate. You are only going to end up confusing people. Getting banned for having a link in my profile to UOGuide and supposedly getting tons of free IDOC loot from EA are not related. This topics is about an unfair banning. I believe you already started a topic on the other subject.

If so did EA ever send you a message of any kind not to sell products on your site?

No they didn't.

 

[Corrupted Goblin]

OH that is some BS Jeremy basically the head of UO can promote it but players in game cant flipping IRONY? or STUPIDITY?


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