MMORPG Article - Sandboxes and UO

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....

I understand your point, I wish you would at least try to understand mine.

I am not advocating for PKs, in fact, quite the opposite. My guild was formed to help to combat PKs. It wasn't about PvP for us. It wasn't that we got a higher thrill from fighting players rather than AI monsters, it was that we wanted to help players that were being victimized by PKs.

Sure, in creating Trammel, the devs helped everyone that didn't want to be PKed, but they also took away an aspect of the game,...

Morgana, you do not understand the point being made. Your creating a point you think is being made and then saying you understand it and your being misunderstood.

Deal with this being the point, LITERALY, "They DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH PvP. They do NOT WANT TO EVEN BE EXPOSED TO IT". Resist fabricating some .... other point and saying you understand them.

Now then look at YOUR statement.

I am not advocating for PKs, in fact, quite the opposite. My guild was formed to help to combat PKs. It wasn't about PvP for us. It wasn't that we got a higher thrill from fighting players rather than AI monsters, it was that we wanted to help players that were being victimized by PKs.

Do you get it? Your stating things 100% wrong to the point of hypocrisy.

"It wasn't about PvP" dont you really get it? It was 100% about PvP. You imagine, fantasize, create etc that others needed or wanted your protection, your retribution. For YOU to be a Knight in Shining Armor, A SAVIOR. It was 100% about YOU and PvP.

Now then if the rhetoric your pushing is being ratcheted up a passion level, then ... Good to see you backed of the silly Empirical Evidence Day Care Psycho Babble Game, but YOUR still of the opinion that I need to prove something to YOU and that YOU are exempt from the same requirement. So lets do this, I have made my statement, I am commanding you, you peon to PROVE ME WRONG. (In case it is not clear to you, I am ... skilling up in levity on you)

It will eventually occur to you that I do not care if you believe my statement or not. I really do not. I know it is true, in terms that those that SHOULD know made the statement. Now if it does occur to you that I do NOT care if you believe me or not, then it will eventually occur to you that I have no compulsion to do anything to enlighten you. This is doubly true because I am convinced you could care less if I did. You are totally ignoring the reality of UO today and have apparently come up with a fantasy about how the Original UO became the Current UO. I do NOT need to prove anything, the proof of my statement is the CURRENT UO.

Scripters are rampant in FELLUCA NOT TRAMMEL.

I can go anywhere in FELLUCA and never see a player, but a LOT of Scripters. I see players in TRAMMEL ALL THE TIME and NO apparent Scipters.

When Trammel went Live Felluca became a GHOST FACET within a month. The non stop incessant whining about "Oh, my Felluca is Dead now UO force them DIRTY TRAMMIES TO COME BACK TO US", began on the Formal UO forums and has continued NON STOP on Stratics.

Just how far in that whole do you need to stick your head to be able to deny that which is all around you if you just take the time to look.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I think you need to adjust your meds...or maybe you just need to start reading what other people post, instead of what you THINK they posted.

A quick summary of my points, and then I am done with this thread and you...

- The author of the article spoke of UO in the past tense because the game he played no longer exists in its original form

- Trammel was created instead of a more subtle solution

- Trammel, or some other solution to the PK problem, was 100% necessary for UO to survive

- When I say that for us (my guild), it was not about PvP, I am saying that we did not have a desire to fight other players...but we did so to help players that were being victimized

- Felucca is indeed a "ghost" facet, and I don't recall saying otherwise

- Just because you, or anyone else, likes the new version of UO better than the old one, it does not mean that the two are the same.

- UO, at least in the sense of what it was pre-UO:R, is dead and gone, and unless the devs see fit to put up a classic or retro shard, it is never coming back


Take from that what you will, it is apparent that you will not take what was actually meant by it.

 

[Izzy MBC]

I can remember being incredibly frustrated by PKs back in those days, and you are right when you say we play this game to escape real life...but that doesn't mean that there should be zero risk, zero threat.

I miss the Adrenaline rush - the trembling hands - the sudden burst of insanity when that Red name pops up in the corner of the screen. I'd start PELTING it full speed through the Forests, glancing at my Keyboard for Macro's; wondering whether to try recalling, or Invissing.

*Sighs*

 

[Thav12]

I agree with the previous poster that those times were quit exhilarating. I wonder if we ever are going to see a game that is able to strike the perfect balance between consensual and non-consensual interactions between players. That is what it ultimately comes down to in my opinion. Although it is awesome to feel the thrill of true danger, few will consent to having themselves robbed blind. And once you decide to consent to that kind of interaction, the randomness and unexpected nature of the crime is taken away making the unexpected the expected... The trammel/felucca solution is as close to a reasonable compromise you can get I think. I could still go there and at the risk of an unwanted murder have greater gains.

I would love to go back to the initial free environment, but then there has to be a far more stringent set of repercussions for the perpetrators and murderers. Life in jail, loss of the character when killed? Not because I am afraid or incompetent, but because in a "real" world "real" crimes fit "real" punishment. Camping outside a city wall and basing the bunny bashers to death is a heinous crime and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Killing another murderer could be rewarded. Without protection of the law the game would be lawless and people would leave en masse. Oh wait, that already happened...

just some ramblings....

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I think you need to adjust your meds........

Tsk, Tsk ..... one of those eh?

So in the end, you resort to insulting people that may actually need medication for legitimate reasons, just to try to get under my skin

That is rather pathetic don't you think?

And all it was you I quoted, unaltered. You do NOT get the point they make. But it was a good laugh that YOU did NOT WANT TO PK, but the DEVIL MADE YOU DO IT I suppose MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I mean really The Devil Made you PK? Now I wonder who or what I am really trying to have fun with.

You seriously can not even admit that you PK'd because YOU CHOSE TO and then went into some Denial Land saying it was because OTHERS MADE YOU DO IT? That they WANTED YOU TO BE THEIR SAVIOR?

I think it is time to leave you with your fantasies and Denials.

Oh and as to the Lame psycho motivator the .... some thing or other Author of the .... piece used, here is something to ponder ....

"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to loose"

A rather lame and overly used Cliche he used. Overall he had no clue what the heck he was saying.

 

[Izzy MBC]

I originally composed a long winded post about how it would be affordable (Item/Gold wise) to return to Fel, and came to the conclusion I can still experience that, by just changing my Character Setup and other ways (Long winded to explain properly).

But I just ran around Felluca for half an hour; run around Yew Gate (One red seen, wasn't moving out of his house), run through all the levels of Shame and back, and along a few main roads between cities and various forests. Not a soul. I'll admit though, running back through Shame I was a little worried, often casting In Vas Mani JUST in case there was someone charging through towards me, but a las :/

Guess I'm looking at the wrong time. It is 3am or later for Europe I suppose.

[...] I would love to go back to the initial free environment, but then there has to be a far more stringent set of repercussions for the perpetrators and murderers. Life in jail, loss of the character when killed? Not because I am afraid or incompetent, but because in a "real" world "real" crimes fit "real" punishment. [...]

Seems to be where it all falls apart. You just can't apply "real world" levels of punishment though, because in the end it's a game. Loss of the character seems pretty extreme, considering the hours required to build a player. Jail time for a real world hour, or maybe an in-game "Day", but it just doesn't seem right.
I'm thinking Skill loss', of 5-10% everytime the Red is successfuly killed by a Blue, which steadily regenerates alongside normal skill progression. Maybe make it Stats as well, but it can't be so harsh that the characters out of action/unusable... I guess that's my gripe with Jail time. The player behind the Murderer still has to play somehow.

Or instead of punishing the Red, let the Blue that kills the red's get a reward. Some incentive to get them outside the Safe Zones more, and wanting to chase the Murderer's down, rather then just the opposite. The Hunters become hunted.

The reward though? Depending on the Murderer's "Murder Count", cash reward? That's way open to abuse though. Temporarily enhanced Loot on Creatures? Temporarily enchanced Skills or Stats? I can't think of anything else right now -_-

Dunno why I'm even rambling on about this, nothing will ever change.

 

[Coldren]

First, I don't think "angry" is the right word. More like, remiss......The world was more dangerous, and there was greater risk, but in the end, just like you stated about Siege, the sense of community and accomplishment was higher then.

That's very well articulated. Nicely phrased.

Amber Moon:

Perhaps that is a finer way of saying what I was trying to say. No one who still plays the game really "Hates" Trammel. If we did, we wouldn't be playing.

We miss the sense of community that some of us found because of those "harsh" conditions. The sense of accomplishment you felt when you could complete the task you set out to do, dodging PK's and gank squads, monsters, and the dreaded Lag Beast. (Wasn't dialup fun back then?)

No one denies that Trammel brought a lot to the table for a lot of players, and did wonders for the retention of the game. But for some (Not all, not the majority, I can't even give you a real number), we miss not only the challenge and sense of accomplishment, but the sense of community such adverse conditions fostered. There may be bonds just as strong now, but back then, when the server was crowded with a few thousand players, and you heard ANY guild, no matter how small, was splitting apart, you knew it was a big deal. Do people even notice when guilds (Except "Too Big to Fail" Guilds) go away these days? Maybe that was just me, or something particular to Catskills at the time. /shrug.

Fel and Siege are as close as we can get, but to be honest, it's not the same thing. Fel still lets you use insurance, people of different mindsets aren't co-mingling there, and as for Siege, the skill gain mechanism and one character slot are pretty off putting. And all of them have the itemization system that while many like, some of us could do without. These options are close, but no cigar.

There's nothing wrong with Trammel or people who like Trammel. I don't think I or anyone else (at least insofar as what I can recall was written in this rather lengthy thread) has said anything to the contrary.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....
Seems to be where it all falls apart. You just can't apply "real world" levels of punishment though, because in the end it's a game. Loss of the character seems pretty extreme, considering the hours required to build a player. Jail time for a real world hour, or maybe an in-game "Day", but it just doesn't seem right.
I'm thinking Skill loss', of 5-10% everytime the Red is successfuly killed by a Blue, which steadily regenerates alongside normal skill progression. Maybe make it Stats as well, but it can't be so harsh that the characters out of action/unusable... I guess that's my gripe with Jail time.

The player behind the Murderer still has to play somehow.
....

IF you want the Old Days, then the game must enforce a system that FORCES the PKR to consider their action vs their Victims Game Play. It is the very definition of blindness to presume that the Victim wants to be a part of the PK play style.

When this entire PK switch was talked about on CoB, one solution I proposed was a tri stated switch for every character.

State 1: Go ahead I am fair game and I am going to try to Kill you.

State 2: Go ahead and if your entertaining I will not enter an action on you. IF YOUR NOT I may vote for permanent Death on you or just a Slap on the wrist. So ENTERTAIN ME.

State 3: Go ahead I will vote for Permanent Death no mater what.

At the core of PvP in all MMORPG's is there are NO CONSEQUENCES OF ANY VALUE vs the HARM DONE TO THE VICTIM from a subscriber perspective. Without this, the end results will always be the same NO LITTLE PIGGIES TO GO SQUEALING ABOUT BEING PK'd. And any one that REALLY was there and did the Good vs Bad will know that after all is said and done, it gets boring because there are NO LITTLE PIGGIES.

Any MMORPG that is going to have a successful integration of PvP and NON PvP will require The PKR's action to have sever consequences meaning the character may experience perma death and I will predict this by itself will be insufficient. What will work is the loss of the Account and all it owns/posse's.

Yeah I know the whiny PKR crowd of UO today will say Whoa man that is to harsh. Well get a clue, it doesn't STOP YOU AT ALL. Do what ever you want, just be advised you WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR YOUR ACTION. This does NOT HINDER PKING PERIOD. It forces the PKR to be aware of and to take into consideration his / her actions vs the intended victim.

 

[Amber Moon]

Oh I understand the loss. I was there in '98 when we had our own carebear action on Baja at the Golden Brew.

But it still doesn't turn my glasses all rose colored and I don't think you can rack up most of the community changes to Trammel. There was a very strong guild vs. guild pvp scene for a long time post uo:r. It became a better and much larger world for me and what seems to be the majority of other folks after Trammel. But the game aged as they all do and populations dwindled to the hardcore.

If you guys really want to experience that kind of thing again I think you still can. Just not on production UO shards. Some have even gone as far as applying pre uo:r rulesets to modern game environments that might make you say wow!. Just goggle around a bit.

As we used to say... Safe Travels

 

[Izzy MBC]

Good idea Enigma

Presumably the player can only switch his Characters Mode every 24 hours or something? If you design a character, it might only be suited for one type of combat between PvM and PvP anyway, just thinking of preventing abuse. I'm pretty sure they did something similar in WoW as well, the brief few months I played, there was a toggle for Battle between the two opposing Sides I think, seemed to work fine.

For the record, I missed the late 90's of UO. I came not long before Trammel appeared. But I still know the fear 'n' excitement of Open PvP through various avenue's, and I'd love to have it in UO.

Taking on Amber Moon's suggestion though, I've hunted around a little, and found a couple of nice "alternatives" to try.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Good idea Enigma

Presumably the player can only switch his Characters Mode every 24 hours or something? If you design a character, it might only be suited for one type of combat between PvM and PvP anyway, just thinking of preventing abuse. I'm pretty sure they did something similar in WoW as well, the brief few months I played, there was a toggle for Battle between the two opposing Sides I think, seemed to work fine.

For the record, I missed the late 90's of UO. I came not long before Trammel appeared. But I still know the fear 'n' excitement of Open PvP through various avenue's, and I'd love to have it in UO.

Taking on Amber Moon's suggestion though, I've hunted around a little, and found a couple of nice "alternatives" to try.

Actually I think I proposed that the switch could be 30 days after it had been set, or said more simply there was a 30 day count down before you could switch it again. And yes the abuse was there if the count down was to low.

The majority of those expressing their opinions masked as outrage were unanimous in there assertion that the In Game Consequences to the PKR's were trivial to non existent. What was consistently missed, as Morgana seems to be missing it, is these people payed their subscription money just like the PKR did and they wanted nothing to do with the NO CONSEQUENCES form of PvP in UO at that time. That was 100% DD's fault. He thought he could control the PKR's. Every Day, Every Week, the PKR's became increasing more anti-social (read as anti UO) with their behavior.

The GOOD Pkrs (read those that were NOT the problem) desperately tried to protect their PvP game by entering a state of denial, such as we see in this thread. "Oh these things don't really happen", "Oh, these people really did want to be PKD", "Oh, these people need to be taught how to be a REAL MAN". Anything that supported their ability to be in denial. So they would not need to deal with the very real aspect that the Victims paid their subscription money and wanted NOTHING to do with PvP. They did NOT want Saviors. They did NOT want others getting Revenge/Retribution for them.

That they were entitled to play their style just as much as the PKR was but there was NO WERE TO PLAY IT. Until EverQuest came along and the mass exodus was a wake up call that brought DD to his knees (no not literally). It was then that he had to come to terms with the reality he never had control over the PKRS and that UO was hemorrhaging. It was then that he knew he was going to eat his words, "Over my Dead Body will there be a PK switch in UO", made in the same thread I and others proposed how to do a PK switch.

People should be aware of what was going on Financially. DD / UO was positive they were immortal and sitting on the Golden Goose. They were expanding the staff, the hardware, the internet bandwidth. They were positive they would never collapse. Now you take all those expenses and you watch the majority of your revenue take flight, not just going nowhere but TO YOUR COMPETITION. This is the absolute worst place for the revenue to take flight to. Because your going to go into a collapse and lay people off. Remove Hardware. Decrease Bandwidth. Decrease Infrastructure. Decrease services etc. All the while your competition is using the revenue that took flight from UO to increase, improve services, improve performance etc. In short no better formula exists to create a negative spiral for UO and a positive spiral for EverQuest.

The only thing that stopped UO from collapsing to a subscriber size of some of the .... other places was the creation of Trammel. I say it would have been better to create as many PvP shards as was required and turn the PvP rules OFF on the non PvP shards than to have created Trammel. The fear was in loss of subscriptions from the PKR's. I doubt seriously that any of the decision makers looking back would make that same choice.

For what it is worth a number of what you found are dedicated to PvM and using the Golden Days of UO rules, just the PvP turned off.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

The main problem with trying to "go back" now, be it on prodo shards, or private shards, is that there are alternatives.

That's a good thing for the post Ren players that want nothing to do with PvP. But a very bad thing for those that are more fans of pre Ren.

If a shard, any shard, appeared that was pre Ren, the players on it would all be PvP minded, which destroys the original social experiment of mixing non-pvp players and pvp players.

We will never get that back in UO...its gone. For better or for worse, its gone.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


I did some thinking on this subject today, and this is why I actually returned to this thread...


Since UO:R, I have seen areas of the game that I had never seen before. I have seen monsters that I would never have seen otherwise, because gankers camped those spawns and wouldn't let your average UO player near them.

I have walked along beaches that I wanted to visit, I have seen the bottom levels of dungeons that were once impassable. I have battled creatures that I would never have bothered to attack in those days, for fear that someone would show up and finish me off just as I hit 1/4 health.

Trammel did do something for the game. It opened up areas that were otherwise not accessible to the average player.

But I have to ask this question:

Did removing the veil of mystery lead us to where we really wanted to be?

I know, for my part, that I have pretty much "been there, done that" with all areas of UO now; and I have to wonder, if we still had the threat of PKs, would that be so? Or would I still be wondering what the bottom level of Deceit looked like in color?

In an earlier post, I stated that UO:R led to AOS...and the more I think about it, the more I believe that. After Trammel, things got pretty fun ... for a while, then they started to become rather rote.

Now I am not the world's biggest fan of AOS, and the item based uber inflation we see in UO today, but what else would keep the interest of the average player?

No power scrolls, no artifacts, no Doom stealables, no neon trinkets, no uber suits, no billions of gold in your account...would many of the current population still be around?? What would they work towards?

With Trammel, losing your items became almost a thing of the past, and with AOS/Pub 16, it became a complete thing of the past. So replacing items was no long a factor.

What would the average player strive for without newer, and bigger, and more powerful items to apsire to?

Now go back and re-read the article, and focus on what the author was saying about sandbox vs. theme park. I think you might just see what I mean.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

What was consistently missed, as Morgana seems to be missing it, is these people payed their subscription money just like the PKR did and they wanted nothing to do with the NO CONSEQUENCES form of PvP in UO at that time.

Again you assign things to me that I did not say.

From day 1 I understood perfectly well that these people wanted NOTHING to do with PvP. They did not want to die to some punk a** PK what would ridicule them and take their stuff. I was one of them!

But rather than WHINE about it, and wish that the devs would have done something about it, some of US actually DID SOMETHING about it.

Take your self-righteous attitude and stick it.

Back then, no one was helping the victims of PKs besides guilds like PoV. And if you were around back then, as you claim, and you were not a PK, then you can bet your a** that you owed your good fortune to guilds like mine that spent their time, their resources, and their energy fighting something that you wanted to, but could not, ignore.

No one has said that anyone "actually wanted to be PKed" that is ridiculous.

There was NO OTHER solution to the problem back then other than fighting back, and that is what we did.

Thumb your nose at people that dedicated themselves to fighting PKs all you want, but in the end, we were better people, and better players, for doing so.

You seem to have a severe reading comprehension problem, so I am afraid I am going to have to put an end to my interactions with you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Connor_Graham]

To take a phrase from Serenity "What a whiner"

That phrase isn't from Serenity, or any of the episodes in the series. I've watched the movie I don't know how many times, and the series several times, and don't recally that phrase in any of them, much less often enough to have the phrase attributed to the movie.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

That phrase isn't from Serenity, or any of the episodes in the series. I've watched the movie I don't know how many times, and the series several times, and don't recally that phrase in any of them, much less often enough to have the phrase attributed to the movie.

Hum, did you happen to watch the Deleted Scenes or the Directors Cut?

 

[Aboo]

I understand your point, I wish you would at least try to understand mine. . .you are right when you say we play this game to escape real life...but that doesn't mean that there should be zero risk, zero threat.

I do understand your point, I just don't necessarily agree with it.

The problem I see is that there is a choice now. Those who prefer risk and danger should be in Felucca. Those who prefer to play UO with less risk should play in Trammel. Felucca is fairly empty now and Trammel is not empty. That tells me that the majority of people prefer to play Trammel.

So why don't people just play the shard they prefer?

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

....

You seem to have a severe reading comprehension problem, so I am afraid I am going to have to put an end to my interactions with you.

Have a nice day.

You whine and all that was done was to quote you As I said, live in your fantasy of how the "Devil Made You Do It" or would a more current statement be "The Voices In My Head Made Me Do It".

*Shrug* All you needed to do was be honest about PKing people rather than try to blame others.

But hey, if you can not handle having your posturing being revealed for what it is, then yeah the Board improves if you ignore me.

Toodles

 

[Connor_Graham]

Hum, did you happen to watch the Deleted Scenes or the Directors Cut?

No, but then that's not the point, not that it matters. You'll probably just toss some daycare psycho-babble around to try and prove that it being said one time in a deleted scene makes it part of the movie, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Izzy MBC]

Can anyone enlighten me to any incentives for PvMers to enter Felluca? I don't wanna go to Fel specifically to battle other players, but more-so for the off chance I might bump into someone who wants to kill me.

Sounds bizarre, but it's for the thrill after all, of perhaps losing my Loot, and the sheer feelings associated with it: Panic and Fear of the red name.

When I was killing stuff in Shame, the loot did seem a little better, but the Gold appeared the same.

There must be something, it seems such an effective solution. As always, there will always be those that whine, "Why do I have to face PKers who'll just take my loot everytime I want the benefits of Fel PvM", I'd say that IS the trade off, can't have great stuff without the chance of losing it. If there's enough incentive, presumably strangers WILL group up, just to make it through the entrance of the Dungeon.

I recall one time I walked into Covetous, Fel Side: 3 seconds in through the door Four Red Names appeared out of nowhere, casted Energy Walls and Stone Walls around me blocking me in, and I was dead in moments.

Give me more of a reason to enter the Fel Dungeons (If there isn't one already), and I'll be there.

And after last night, I'd agree with the person who said Trammel is filled more-so then Felluca :/

Last Minute Addition: I just remembered, there's the Champ Spawns, they have drawn me in lately with a friend! But it forces the necessity of a Team to accomplish the task, as Soloing isn't really possible. I'd like to see the incentive based around existing Dungeons some how.

Edit: Sorry, I think I'm derailing the Topic with this stuff. Also, thank you Stratics Forums for the Automatic "Happy Birthday" email I'm 22 Today! Wehey!

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

No, but then that's not the point, not that it matters. You'll probably just toss some daycare psycho-babble around to try and prove that it being said one time in a deleted scene makes it part of the movie, so I'll just leave it at that.

Actually I asked if you had watched the Directors Cut as well .... so I take it as a NO you did not watch the Movie.

Hum, you never know, you may enjoy the scene

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Can anyone enlighten me to any incentives for PvMers to enter Felluca? I don't wanna go to Fel specifically to battle other players, but more-so for the off chance I might bump into someone who wants to kill me.

Sounds bizarre, but it's for the thrill after all, of perhaps losing my Loot, and the sheer feelings associated with it: Panic and Fear of the red name.

When I was killing stuff in Shame, the loot did seem a little better, but the Gold appeared the same.

There must be something, it seems such an effective solution. As always, there will always be those that whine, "Why do I have to face PKers who'll just take my loot everytime I want the benefits of Fel PvM", I'd say that IS the trade off, can't have great stuff without the chance of losing it. If there's enough incentive, presumably strangers WILL group up, just to make it through the entrance of the Dungeon.

I recall one time I walked into Covetous, Fel Side: 3 seconds in through the door Four Red Names appeared out of nowhere, casted Energy Walls and Stone Walls around me blocking me in, and I was dead in moments.

Give me more of a reason to enter the Fel Dungeons (If there isn't one already), and I'll be there.

And after last night, I'd agree with the person who said Trammel is filled more-so then Felluca :/

Last Minute Addition: I just remembered, there's the Champ Spawns, they have drawn me in lately with a friend! But it forces the necessity of a Team to accomplish the task, as Soloing isn't really possible. I'd like to see the incentive based around existing Dungeons some how.

Edit: Sorry, I think I'm derailing the Topic with this stuff. Also, thank you Stratics Forums for the Automatic "Happy Birthday" email I'm 22 Today! Wehey!

As long as the two are connected then NONE. Not really, any Hard Core PvM'r has no reason or incentive to go to Felluca. They can get everything they want from the Luna Vendors.

Resource Gatherers have a reason, the increased resources. If those that do not go to Felluca did go to Felluca they would find the only inhabitants, with a rare exception or two, would be the Scriptors doing their things.

Now if one wonders why the Scriptors are .... hum NOT molested, then one might come to the conclusion that they are not because they are no fun to PK. They do not Squeal. Take that hint and simply say nothing to anyone that does manage to PK you, go get rez'd and be about your business. You to will become one of the ignored and can do what ever you want there.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Actually I asked if you had watched the Directors Cut as well

I'm sorry, I didn't realize a single question required more than one "no" in order to answer it. I'll make sure and use many "no's" next time.

.... so I take it as a NO you did not watch the Movie.

Yes, I did watch the movie, as I've already said, but no, I didn't watch the director's cut, but as I've already said, that's beside the point.


Now, this has gotten ridiculous, so I'm just going to suggest you go on down to the daycare so you can learn more psycho babble, and I'm going to read another thread.

 

[Connor_Graham]

You to will become one of the ignored and can do what ever you want there.

Wow, that's just so............



Naive.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

...
Yes, I did watch the movie, as I've already said, but no, I didn't watch the director's cut, but as I've already said, that's beside the point.
....

Ah, Connor gets to have his Cake and Eat it too

One would have thought that, one such a you would know that "Movie" no longer has a single value. But apparently your going to get your self all tied up because you did NOT know there are Versions of a Movie. I mean I am just saying, if you had known that you might not have tried your little game

 

[kelmo]

Take it to PMs fellows... *stares*

 

[Izzy MBC]

As long as the two are connected then NONE. Not really, any Hard Core PvM'r has no reason or incentive to go to Felluca. They can get everything they want from the Luna Vendors.

I can never afford what they have to offer, I very rarely have more then half a million in my bank. I have stacks of rares that could no doubt sell in my house, but I'm a bit of a hoarder, and would prefer to keep my sentimental items over Gold.

Hmmm, I'm kinda speechless. Guess I'll forever be a Banksitting Trammy.

 

[Connor_Graham]

Take it to PMs fellows... *stares*

No worries. I'm done with the "daycare psycho babble" for today.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

Take it to PMs fellows... *stares*

Kelmo, what did I do to deserve your punishment of needing to deal with Connors PM's? What ever it was I am so sorry man ... No anything but that

 

[kelmo]

*belly laughs!* Wow.

 

[EnigmaMaitreya]

I can never afford what they have to offer, I very rarely have more then half a million in my bank. I have stacks of rares that could no doubt sell in my house, but I'm a bit of a hoarder, and would prefer to keep my sentimental items over Gold.

Hmmm, I'm kinda speechless. Guess I'll forever be a Banksitting Trammy.

Hum, I was only indicating they do not need to go there. Me I tend to go get the stuff I can as a Solo Player, what I can not get then yeah I buy off the Luna Vendors .... when I see a good deal. Mostly I just do without. As in my Tamers tend to be a 40's resist suit etc.

 

[Coldren]

No worries. I'm done with the "daycare psycho babble" for today.

Hey, hey, hey! If there is ANY Day Care Psychobabble to be done here, it should be done by a PROFESSIONAL Day Care Psychobabbler.. So I guess it's time for me to speak up!

Never seen Serenity myself, but anyway..

Incidentally, the idea Enigma put forth is essentially opt-in and opt-out PvP.

We kind of have that now. Go into Fel, flag is on. Go into Tram, flag is off.

The idea I previously had about city wars showed an opt-in/opt-out system had a gradient of different levels of involvement, and most importantly, didn't segregate the population, which is what a few of us think is one of the key issues of the Trammel/Felucca split.

Fine if you don't like the idea of siegeing/destroying cities, taxes, and city control. But certainly different PvP options that don't segregate the population can't be all bad.