@Mesanna - EM Accountability Regarding Events

[Promathia]

It is too bad (though not totally unexpected) that this thread has taken a detour. Clearly people have strong feelings about events on both sides of the fence.

It is fate that the same people have the same argument until the end of time.

 

[Zosimus]

What the what......

VILLANOVA

 

[Cyrah]

Your whole post is highly innacurate and is flawed through the roof. For someone, who as admitted mind you, that has only attended events very few and far between from one another, you sure know how to work them numbers.

I cannot possibly inform you enough of how your statement is so untrue, but I shall try.

Over the course of events, you do have people who sit idly by and do nothing. Those very people are the same ones who complain on stratics, but that is an argument for another time. Think of it logistically. On a mediocre day, there are two or three events planned for one night - usually back to back from one another. So why would they sit still and wait for a boss? The truth is, they don't. They participate in the fighting to pick up the pace in order to conclude the event. They do not cause problems for the EM's or disturb the event because that will only prolong the event in itself.

So tell me. Someone, as yourself, you hardly ever attends events anyways. How can you be so sure of your numbers or the incorrect fallacies that you insist are true?

What we have here, as with most of you people, who'd rather complain about the same ol' thing, is that you honestly have no idea what you are complaining about.

I've said it before and I will say it again, it is this attitude followed with misconstruing facts and concluding with expelling other play styles... is is this very ilk that is causing the gaming community to dwindle.

Reality check:

1. We have four (4) developers working on this game. A little insight into the coding world since I know a little about it.... it takes time. So quit your Bi**ing and actually do something productive. I know... perhaps take up actually playing the game before you complain about it?
2. As Promathia pointed out earlier, what is it exactly that you guys are angry about with the event schedule on the website? The shards with a constant EM have done well at posting the events. Once again... learn before opening your mouth.
3. Complain about game mechanics and how Event bosses should be this type of way or the game should run this type away. Sorry to bust your bubble, but unless you work in the game industry, and you know what to do, then you have no idea of what you are complaining about. That's why I hardly complain anymore because I don't know what it takes to do such things.
   
4. It's not cross sharders that interupt events. It's the home shard players. I've been playing on all of the shards for about 5 years. I get to know the avatar characteristics of home shard and cross sharders. Everytime there is a grievance at events, it is mostly the hame sharders. But once again... people who do not attend events sure knows what goes on there.
   
5. Again, you all complain about what the Dev team does for the game, and look what happened. The easter thing was left to the EM's which made it a rare item instead of giving it everyone as a gift. Way to go crybabies, you not only disrespected the dev team with your childish squabbles but you also made it to where ordinary players couldn't celebrate Easter... which from the drama you guys start - goes against everything you believe in. Instead of being children, you should learn to appreciate what the dev team can do for you as a player base. There are only four of them so remember that.

Yes, I have an attitude because it is $hit like this that is turning people away. You all cannot think logistically enough to understand the position the dev team is in. Instead, the bickering sources from self-centered, spoiled, its-my-way-or-no-way, attitudes that most of you share.

Instead of complaining so much, take a step back and understand the situations other people are in. Ultima Online has four developers. FOUR! Things take time. Find something better to do with your time instead of causing useless drama and endless bickering. Hey... I know some of you may not have been out of your houses recently. But guess what? It's spring time!! Go outside and get some vitamin D, visit family, play golf, do something in the yard, just do something productive for once.

Alex are you sure #5 is true? You are saying the Ems decided that because some people complained on this forum about the bunny pic that a gift destined for all players was not given?

 

[Nexus]

What the what......

VILLANOVA

Villanova doesn't have a Bagball team, if you want to talk about the NCAA tournament, Off Topic would work, but please no one run with this as it will derail this thread.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Alex are you sure #5 is true? You are saying the Ems decided that because some people complained on this forum about the bunny pic that a gift destined for all players was not given?

No, that little chestnut was pulled directly from his posterior. As noted previously, if this were true, it would paint a certain person as a vindictive child undeserving of their position.

 

[Alexander of ATL.]

No, that little chestnut was pulled directly from his posterior. As noted previously, if this were true, it would paint a certain person as a vindictive child undeserving of their position.

It's kind of common sense really. What have they done with holiday drops before? They've given them out via clicky or globalized log in loot. In the thread that was discussing the discovered painting graphic, there were so many complaining to turn the "stupid painting" into a drop distribution. They went further to say that globalized log in loot is worthless and stupid. Those same people are now complaining that it IS a drop distribution item. The developers pay attention to what is being said here on stratics.

Use common sense and you can find the answer.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Wild speculation and conspiracy theory masquerading as common sense

 

[Alexander of ATL.]

No actually it isn't. You see, the definition of a conspiracy theory is that of which creating something out of speculation and has arbitrary fallacies from the beginning.

Example: (a certain member) creating false allegations that ALL EM's are corrupt without a shred of evidence
Example: (a certain member) says that he personally knows an EM helping his friends but then hides in the shadows when it's time for evidence
Example: (a certain member) says that Mesanna creates special items for her friends that play the game.
Example: (those certain members) are readily convinced that they themselves have a brain.​

You see, young one, the difference of what I have done in comparison to you and others is I made an educated guess based on previous unchanged facts. No, educated guesses aren't 100% fact but their foundation is rocked with facts that lead to that conclusion.

In the past, for almost all holidays, excluding live events, the item distribution was either globalized login loot or a clickable dispenser given to the players by either Mesanna or the Event Moderators. Now, if done by the Event Moderators, the dispenser would be, not always, inclusive in a story of some kind pertaining to that month/holiday.

This was the presiding argument in that thread I referenced. Complainers, such as yourself, were tired of the clickable items and just wanted to complain some more. Through their complaining, they requested the items be distributed another way; perhaps by the means of Event Moderators. So, insight of the arbitrary momentum gathered, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started agreeing/complaining to change how the rewards worked. The next holiday post argument was Easter. The drop system had indeed changed from what they once were to what the mass majority wanted.

Now.... please use common sense. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's pretty simple, really, although that has proven difficult for some people.

An unchanged system >>>> people complaining in masses on stratics (really the only form of feedback used by the devs >>> they see it >>>>>> system changes >>> end result, people still complain and place the blame on others.

It's pretty obvious but if you can't see that, well, ......

 

[Dot_Warner]

No actually it isn't. You see, the definition of a conspiracy theory is that of which creating something out of speculation and has arbitrary fallacies from the beginning.

Example: (a certain member) creating false allegations that ALL EM's are corrupt without a shred of evidence
Example: (a certain member) says that he personally knows an EM helping his friends but then hides in the shadows when it's time for evidence
Example: (a certain member) says that Mesanna creates special items for her friends that play the game.
Example: (those certain members) are readily convinced that they themselves have a brain.​

You see, young one, the difference of what I have done in comparison to you and others is I made an educated guess based on previous unchanged facts. No, educated guesses aren't 100% fact but their foundation is rocked with facts that lead to that conclusion.

In the past, for almost all holidays, excluding live events, the item distribution was either globalized login loot or a clickable dispenser given to the players by either Mesanna or the Event Moderators. Now, if done by the Event Moderators, the dispenser would be, not always, inclusive in a story of some kind pertaining to that month/holiday.

This was the presiding argument in that thread I referenced. Complainers, such as yourself, were tired of the clickable items and just wanted to complain some more. Through their complaining, they requested the items be distributed another way; perhaps by the means of Event Moderators. So, insight of the arbitrary momentum gathered, everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started agreeing/complaining to change how the rewards worked. The next holiday post argument was Easter. The drop system had indeed changed from what they once were to what the mass majority wanted.

Now.... please use common sense. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's pretty simple, really, although that has proven difficult for some people.

An unchanged system >>>> people complaining in masses on stratics (really the only form of feedback used by the devs >>> they see it >>>>>> system changes >>> end result, people still complain and place the blame on others.

It's pretty obvious but if you can't see that, well, ......

Nice ad hominems, but you're still treading water.

Your definition of conspiracy theory is also wrong, as no definition has "creating something out of speculation and has arbitrary fallacies from the beginning" within it.

From Merriam-Webster:

• a theory that explains an event or situation as the result of a secret plan by usually powerful people or groups
• a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators

If you're going to be pedantic, at least do it right.

In any event, I don't personally care about claims of EM conspiracies as that's Mesanna's headache. I'm content with GL's EMs, and don't really have an opinion of those operating on other shards.

However, your speculation about the Easter painting IS a conspiracy theory. Your "established fact," which you coyly preface with the caveat 'almost' betrays itself. You can't almost have "foundation is rocked with facts."

Yes, in the past, many holidays have seen content added either by logins or clickies placed somewhere in the world...but not every time. One only has to think back to Valentine's Day to remember that there was nothing global...at all. Sure, there were V-Day themed EM events, some of which had items, but nothing for the rank and file subscriber.

"Complainers, such as yourself, were tired of the clickable items and just wanted to complain some more. Through their complaining, they requested the items be distributed another way;"

Yeah, no. *pokes another hole in your almost foundation of "facts"* The thread where I posted the spoiler about the painting has nothing about distribution of the painting in it. You're conflating that with the multiple threads about EM item distribution in general. (Conspiracy theorists love to conflate things, btw ) And just for the umpteenth time on the record, I'm very much in favor of clickies. Mesanna is not.

People complained about the Easter painting because its a fairly hideous graphic and we're tired of hideous graphics/new art that doesn't fit with the rest of the aesthetic. Complaining about things has seen beneficial alterations in the past, i.e. the Sun/moondials...and may now see the runebooks reverted.

Your assertion (theory) that the devs, namely Mesanna (powerful individual), decided to screw the majority of players out of receiving the painting (event) because it was complained about (plot) is unsettling. So we either choose to believe that the painting wasn't meant for mass distribution, or that Mesanna is a petty, capricious, vindictive producer who is content to waste resources when she feels slighted? That's a fairly stark, and even more disturbing choice.

 

[lineman]

I had emailed Mesanna like a month ago to see if they could make the ctr/shift control in the classic client adjustable. If you could filter out players and pets that would solve target problems. She did reply to me and said she would run it by someone. Hopefully they can do something with that.

 

[Alexander of ATL.]

Yes, in the past, many holidays have seen content added either by logins or clickies placed somewhere in the world...but not every time. One only has to think back to Valentine's Day to remember that there was nothing global...at all. Sure, there were V-Day themed EM events, some of which had items, but nothing for the rank and file subscriber.

One of the things I said in my post was "almost all holidays", so the notion that I meant every holiday wasn't even implied within my post.

"Complainers, such as yourself, were tired of the clickable items and just wanted to complain some more. Through their complaining, they requested the items be distributed another way;"

Yeah, no. *pokes another hole in your almost foundation of "facts"* The thread where I posted the spoiler about the painting has nothing about distribution of the painting in it.

I never once specified which thread. I said threads, which is meant to be plural. There are several of these threads in place and in each one people complain. One, in fact, got removed, or is untracable. I remember posting in it.


Also, as I stated in my post, that educated guesses is based off of prerecorded facts. So watch as I poke a whole in your argument. In my definition, I never once insinuated it be from a source database. It's a definition of my own that is equal to the modern and correct definition. Did I need to quote from a source? Perhaps not, but lets use your example.

"a theory that explains an event or situation as the result of a secret plan by usually powerful people or groups"
"a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators"

Okay, so the corelating factors in your definition is "secret __".
I know you love sources so lets use one:

Secret:
a) kept from knowledge or view
b) marked by the habit of discretion
c) working with hidden aims or methods
d) not acknowledged
e) conducted in secret


So by a prominent definition (Merriam Webster), the notion something is of a conspiracy theory is that is must be done in secret? Correct? No knowledge could be gained from it whatsoever? Correct?

Let me explain, in points, of how my assertion is no where near a conspiracy theory.

• There are pre recorded references as to how the dev team distributes holiday items, when and if they give them.
• When a mass of people advocate for one solution, the dev teams, not always, but sometimes goes with that solution.
• Past history of Mesanna dealing with complainers in a form considerably like this. (Pirate Flag from Atlantic)

So yes, while I don't have exact proof, this educated guess is built on recollection of certain scenarios in history.

Educated Guess:
a guess based on knowledge and experience, making it more likely to be correct


Key words: knowledge, experience

1) Knowledge - There is recorded scenarios of similar situations that have concluded.
2) Experience - The Pirate Flag. I was at the town hall when so many people were complaining about the item. They were harassing her. She said that the dev team had been extremely busy and that it will get done as soon as possible. A player kept being rude and obnoxious to the point that she said that we probably won't get it if that keeps up.

Subpoint to point 2:

• The Dev team didn't have to give the shard of Atlantic the Pirate Flag. It was a gift because of the revert. Reverts happen, in all games. So the fact that the Dev team put the flag on their list of things to do so that the players of Atlantic could get compensation is nice to begin with. It wasn't promised. It wasn't an obligation. It wasn't a have to thing. There are only four developers and the things they do take time. Whenever the do something, they have the players best interest at heart. Yes, maybe some think the painting is a bad art graphic, but to a lot of players, they absolutely love the painting.

• It's attitudes like yours, the obnoxious and ungrateful ones. Holiday items aren't promised to us. It's not an obligation of the Dev team to bestow onto us. Yes, it makes a nice addition, but it isn't something that is a have to. Yes, other MMORPG's have it, but it isn't something that is priority. So instead of bit***ng about what you did get, be thankful because you got something. With only 4 developers, I am sure they are up to their necks with the publishes and such. Even Kyronix said that producing new art doesn't take away from their responsibilities. So be grateful instead of a lot of cry babies.

 

[kelmo]

Subpoint?

 

[Dot_Warner]

One of the things I said in my post was "almost all holidays", so the notion that I meant every holiday wasn't even implied within my post.

Hence why I called it a caveat.

I never once specified which thread. I said threads, which is meant to be plural. There are several of these threads in place and in each one people complain. One, in fact, got removed, or is untracable. I remember posting in it.

Link it, or your argument is worthless.

Also, as I stated in my post, that educated guesses is based off of prerecorded facts. So watch as I poke a whole in your argument. In my definition, I never once insinuated it be from a source database. It's a definition of my own that is equal to the modern and correct definition. Did I need to quote from a source? Perhaps not, but lets use your example.

"a theory that explains an event or situation as the result of a secret plan by usually powerful people or groups"
"a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators"

Okay, so the corelating factors in your definition is "secret __".
I know you love sources so lets use one:

Secret:
a) kept from knowledge or view
b) marked by the habit of discretion
c) working with hidden aims or methods
d) not acknowledged
e) conducted in secret

So by a prominent definition (Merriam Webster), the notion something is of a conspiracy theory is that is must be done in secret? Correct? No knowledge could be gained from it whatsoever? Correct?

I'll requite my earlier example... I apparently flipped two of the points, my bad.

Your assertion (theory) that the devs, namely Mesanna (powerful individual), decided to screw the majority of players out of receiving the painting (secret plot) because it was complained about (event) is unsettling.

Since the devs didn't tell us what is/was going on re: bunny painting, their decision(s), if there even were any, are by definition, secret. At no point does the definition demand that a "conspiracy" not be "known" by "anyone," this is why it would be a "theory."

Theory:

• a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

A conspiracy theory tends to be someone's belief, either devoid of actual supporting evidence, or with evidence of a spurious nature.

While the past indeed informs the present, you can't cite any precedent for what happened with the painting as none previously exists. Guesswork doesn't cut it.

Unless Mesanna choses to tell us one way or the other, its 100% assumption.

Let me explain, in points, of how my assertion is no where near a conspiracy theory.

• There are pre recorded references as to how the dev team distributes holiday items, when and if they give them.
• When a mass of people advocate for one solution, the dev teams, not always, but sometimes goes with that solution.
• Past history of Mesanna dealing with complainers in a form considerably like this. (Pirate Flag from Atlantic)

So yes, while I don't have exact proof, this educated guess is built on recollection of certain scenarios in history.

Educated Guess:
a guess based on knowledge and experience, making it more likely to be correct


Key words: knowledge, experience

1) Knowledge - There is recorded scenarios of similar situations that have concluded.
2) Experience - The Pirate Flag. I was at the town hall when so many people were complaining about the item. They were harassing her. She said that the dev team had been extremely busy and that it will get done as soon as possible. A player kept being rude and obnoxious to the point that she said that we probably won't get it if that keeps up.

Subpoint to point 2:

• The Dev team didn't have to give the shard of Atlantic the Pirate Flag. It was a gift because of the revert. Reverts happen, in all games. So the fact that the Dev team put the flag on their list of things to do so that the players of Atlantic could get compensation is nice to begin with. It wasn't promised. It wasn't an obligation. It wasn't a have to thing. There are only four developers and the things they do take time. Whenever the do something, they have the players best interest at heart. Yes, maybe some think the painting is a bad art graphic, but to a lot of players, they absolutely love the painting.

I'm really trying not to laugh while reading your literary contortions.

The pirate flag, of which you clearly don't know the history, has nothing to do with this, and isn't a particularly similar situation. But I'll run with it...

After the Atlantic revert Mesanna did promise the players something, and a jolly roger was suggested (as there was one in the art files that hadn't been distributed). Time went by without anything happening. When asked about it, Mesanna said that she wasn't happy with the art and was going to have a new one made. More time passed. The shard bound clickie flag appeared on Atlantic, appeasing most.

Again, this flawed example has absolutely nothing to do with the painting in any way, shape or form. Your straw man has been burned.

• It's attitudes like yours, the obnoxious and ungrateful ones. Holiday items aren't promised to us. It's not an obligation of the Dev team to bestow onto us. Yes, it makes a nice addition, but it isn't something that is a have to. Yes, other MMORPG's have it, but it isn't something that is priority. So instead of bit***ng about what you did get, be thankful because you got something. With only 4 developers, I am sure they are up to their necks with the publishes and such. Even Kyronix said that producing new art doesn't take away from their responsibilities. So be grateful instead of a lot of cry babies.

Holiday content, which has been presented to us in one form or another since '97, is indeed "promised." By your own assertions of historical precedent in fact! Christmas has always brought items, and the one year that got messed that up we received them twice.

The devs have an entire year to think up trinkets or simple rehues/renames for holiday items. It's not as if these dates are a surprise or that they don't know that there will be unhappiness if they let it slide. It's part of their job to keep up UO's traditions in this regard.

It's also part of their job to take player concerns and wishes into consideration when designing new content. If they don't actively try to please their subscribers, they tend to lose them.

And really, complaining about complaints? Welcome to Stratics.

 

[Alexander of ATL.]

The pirate flag, of which you clearly don't know the history, has nothing to do with this, and isn't a particularly similar situation. But I'll run with it...

After the Atlantic revert Mesanna did promise the players something, and a jolly roger was suggested (as there was one in the art files that hadn't been distributed). Time went by without anything happening. When asked about it, Mesanna said that she wasn't happy with the art and was going to have a new one made. More time passed. The shard bound clickie flag appeared on Atlantic, appeasing most.

Again, this flawed example has absolutely nothing to do with the painting in any way, shape or form. Your straw man has been burned.

It's exactly the same. She never promised it to us. She proposed that she would give it to us due the two week revert. And yes, I was there. I was also affected by the revert. And yes, I do remember her saying that she wasn't happy about the artwork which is why is sent back.

None of that takes away from the actual point - which was that people kept complaining and harassing and she made that particular statement. Same principle here. People kept complaining and wanted the item to be distributed via EM boss. Once it was, people still kept complaining.

So lets negate the whole possibility of the origin being from global loot or EM distribution. The irony that those same people wanted the Easter painting to be dropped as an EM Event, and now that it has, those same people are STILL complaining.

The truth of the matter is that it doesn't matter what the Dev team does. You all will still complain until your blue in the face and for nothing.

Side note: How could it be theory if it is supported by circumstantial facts? It has some premise to be correct, but not absolute correctness.

 

[Nexus]

Guys if you want to keep going back and forth on this, please take it to PM.

 

[Lord Trollo]

 

[Tina Small]

Any news on Valentine gifts ?

 

[Ashlynn_L]

So I guess "EM accountability" in the context of this thread basically means "where is my item and how best can you ensure I get it?"

 

[Merus]

So I guess "EM accountability" in the context of this thread basically means "where is my item and how best can you ensure I get it?"

My original post most certainly did not have anything to do with how drops are given out. Like I said in a subsequent post, I have no trouble getting drops. My suggestions go to improving the mechanics of an EM event with or without a drop. I think it's a shame when these kinds of things are brought up to the EM and the answer players get back is *shrugs*.

 

[Longtooths]

im saying that if items were shard bound like you and many others propose the devs would probably have to make staffing decisions because of low turnout on some servers.

For the record I would still show up on Kelmo's shard to get the drop and be called an EM chaser....just sayin'

I had emailed Mesanna like a month ago to see if they could make the ctr/shift control in the classic client adjustable. If you could filter out players and pets that would solve target problems. She did reply to me and said she would run it by someone. Hopefully they can do something with that.

That would be awesome, I hope they put this in!

Guys if you want to keep going back and forth on this, please take it to PM.

Why do users have to take posts that are not breaking the ROC to private IM's? Isn't the goal of a forum to encourage interaction/debate etc? Or are you reverting to the old MODs that had ESP and could tell before a thread went bad?

 

[kelmo]

It was not ESP. It was a decade of experience.

And for the "record" you would be welcomed warmly on "my" Shard.

 

[Longtooths]

It was not ESP. It was a decade of experience.

And for the "record" you would be welcomed warmly on "my" Shard.

Perhaps, but I speak for a lot of people when I say we were/are grateful that you took that decade of experience with you when you quit.

 

[Zosimus]

Wouldn't it be easier to make EM events a quest chain so it can be done in a period of time like a week. This gives everybody time and a chance to do the event.

After the week is up players who participated in the quest chain can go to an EM statue double click it and get a reward.

I think this would solve the issues with the player base.

 

[BrianFreud]

Global events also take way more planning and there is no way they would be able to run 3-4 of them a month. With the EM system you have plenty of them going on almost all the time.

Scenarios were run what, every 3 months? Not 3-4 a month, but once every 3 months. Thing is, I remember scenarios. They weren't all perfect, but they were memorable. EM events, 99.9% of them, are entirely forgettable, even when you can manage to attend.

The one thing I liked about Chessie events was the ongoing lore, which had been been around at least since Kyronix was going by the name Dudley. EM Dross had spun it into a giant web of story. It's not been long enough for me to get a sense if EM Dramnar will be continuing that story, but EM SF has now arrived on Chessie with no background on that lore, so I fear that story will soon come to an end. (Not your fault EM SF, it just is what it is.)

Other than Chessie's lore-heavy RP-heavy events and the Japanese shards, most everywhere else seems to be the 30-minute quickie. Gate somewhere, fight a wave or two of mobs, kill a boss or three, and the same people walk away with a drop. Add in that EM crafted items now decay after 24 hours, and that EMs can't even do EM-crafted items anymore, and EMs now can't spend much time building event locations, either. To me, EM events have become minor distractions. They are progressively further and further from being "ongoing content".

I've had it suggested to me that I apply to become an EM. The system as it is simply is of no interest. I'd far rather be given the ability to build an area for a scenario, a new place to become a permanent part of the game. Give a team of volunteers some ability to do this in a controlled way, and just imagine what could be created. There's still enough people around who know how to be a good gamemaster in the classic sense, and people who excel at using game items for decoration, we could make a far more immersive experience. I know I'd rather have that than events that most people miss, that exclude most people for the spoils, and where the locations then disappear other than in the lore of the shard.

 

[Scribbles]

Scenarios were run what, every 3 months? Not 3-4 a month, but once every 3 months. Thing is, I remember scenarios. They weren't all perfect, but they were memorable. EM events, 99.9% of them, are entirely forgettable, even when you can manage to attend.

The one thing I liked about Chessie events was the ongoing lore, which had been been around at least since Kyronix was going by the name Dudley. EM Dross had spun it into a giant web of story. It's not been long enough for me to get a sense if EM Dramnar will be continuing that story, but EM SF has now arrived on Chessie with no background on that lore, so I fear that story will soon come to an end. (Not your fault EM SF, it just is what it is.)

Other than Chessie's lore-heavy RP-heavy events and the Japanese shards, most everywhere else seems to be the 30-minute quickie. Gate somewhere, fight a wave or two of mobs, kill a boss or three, and the same people walk away with a drop. Add in that EM crafted items now decay after 24 hours, and that EMs can't even do EM-crafted items anymore, and EMs now can't spend much time building event locations, either. To me, EM events have become minor distractions. They are progressively further and further from being "ongoing content".

I've had it suggested to me that I apply to become an EM. The system as it is simply is of no interest. I'd far rather be given the ability to build an area for a scenario, a new place to become a permanent part of the game. Give a team of volunteers some ability to do this in a controlled way, and just imagine what could be created. There's still enough people around who know how to be a good gamemaster in the classic sense, and people who excel at using game items for decoration, we could make a far more immersive experience. I know I'd rather have that than events that most people miss, that exclude most people for the spoils, and where the locations then disappear other than in the lore of the shard.

my sentiments exactly.

 

[Longtooths]

I don't really care for all the lore.

This goes to prove the ole adage, you can not please everyone. The EM's do the best that they can. What to say to all these people that don't want to be an EM, yet in the same breath they have no problem telling the EM's how to do their jobs......

 

[Merus]

This goes to prove the ole adage, you can not please everyone. The EM's do the best that they can. What to say to all these people that don't want to be an EM, yet in the same breath they have no problem telling the EM's how to do their jobs......

So just because someone doesn't want to "do the job themselves", they aren't entitled to an opinion on a service they pay for? I don't want to be a barber, but I still expect a decent haircut when I pay for the service.

The EM program is touted as the "live" content for UO, and is part of our subscription. As such, anyone with an active account should have a right to voice their concerns, even if they don't want to be an EM. Does that make every concern valid? I don't think so, but it also isn't an excuse for crappy events (or attitudes).

 

[Conleth]

Wouldn't it be easier to make EM events a quest chain so it can be done in a period of time like a week. This gives everybody time and a chance to do the event.

After the week is up players who participated in the quest chain can go to an EM statue double click it and get a reward.

I think this would solve the issues with the player base.

I'm sorry if I double posted

Wouldn't it be easier to make EM events a quest chain so it can be done in a period of time like a week. This gives everybody time and a chance to do the event.

After the week is up players who participated in the quest chain can go to an EM statue double click it and get a reward....

I love this idea, and it shouldn't be hard to code as there are starter quests in Haven which could set the template.

To expand on it; limit quest chain rewards to one per account. Limit the clicky (sp?) reward from participating, or completing, to a one to two week timer. In such a way, these could retain a decent amount of their value, as an in game trade item to, say, complete sets. To encourage trading, have either RNG to stamp color/hue, and/or have color/hue tagged to fame and karma (such as was done with old holiday gifts and bags). Could also stamp the item with player name which might encourage folks to be quite creative in choosing their names. Leave them not shard bound to increase perceived value.

*my two cents*
Cheers good folks!

Edited to add: Alternatively, or additionally, give people the option to stamp their name when receiving awards. We love choice. It's also what makes some collectible items 'rarer' than others (named whispering roses come to mind).

 

[Spock's Beard]

I love this idea, and it shouldn't be hard to code as there are starter quests in Haven which could set the template.

Who's going to code them? The EM staff? They aren't coders and aren't given the hours or the pay for it anyway. This is one of the most ridiculous pie-in-the-sky ideas I've ever read here. Like hey, let's just replace the EM program with a constant torrent of brand-new shard-unique quest content. Great idea. Hey four-person dev team working on a twenty-year old game, get right on that.

To expand on it; limit quest chain rewards to one per account. Limit the clicky (sp?) reward from participating, or completing, to a one to two week timer. In such a way, these could retain a decent amount of their value, as an in game trade item to, say, complete sets.

Nothing left on a clicky for a week will be worth squat. Remember the Dawn statuette from the live event where she died? Those clickies were left up for like 5 minutes on each shard, and even with unique art the statuette is worth like 100k on Atlantic. Worthless garbage.

 

[Dot_Warner]

A modular quest engine is a great idea, especially if EMs can use it to set up unique shard events that last longer than an hour. (things like ability to spawn mobs, gumps for oracle text, ability to require quest items, and, yes, rewards distribution)

It would require significant dev time to implement; however, this could be done with an eye towards unifying the current mish-mash of quest systems as well as creating quests for an improved NPE (which UO desperately needs anyway).

Such a system would augment the live EM events, not completely supplant them. This could also allow global scenarios to be implemented by a dev in less time, meaning more of them per year. UO needs events/quests and such happening all over, not in one specific area while the rest of the map languishes in uselessness.

 

[Conleth]

A modular quest engine is a great idea, especially if EMs can use it to set up unique shard events that last longer than an hour. (things like ability to spawn mobs, gumps for oracle text, ability to require quest items, and, yes, rewards distribution)

It would require significant dev time to implement; however, this could be done with an eye towards unifying the current mish-mash of quest systems as well as creating quests for an improved NPE (which UO desperately needs anyway).

Such a system would augment the live EM events, not completely supplant them. This could also allow global scenarios to be implemented by a dev in less time, meaning more of them per year. UO needs events/quests and such happening all over, not in one specific area while the rest of the map languishes in uselessness.

Yes.

EM events need not be supplanted; rather, enhanced. Enhanced for all; players and Broadsword; win/win.

The idea of using the vast lands of Sosaria for such events is excellent!

Any thoughts on retaining value of clicky quest items?

Cheers

 

[Conleth]

Who's going to code them? The EM staff? They aren't coders and aren't given the hours or the pay for it anyway. This is one of the most ridiculous pie-in-the-sky ideas I've ever read here. Like hey, let's just replace the EM program with a constant torrent of brand-new shard-unique quest content. Great idea. Hey four-person dev team working on a twenty-year old game, get right on that.



Nothing left on a clicky for a week will be worth squat. Remember the Dawn statuette from the live event where she died? Those clickies were left up for like 5 minutes on each shard, and even with unique art the statuette is worth like 100k on Atlantic. Worthless garbage.

With respect, I disagree; make clicky items RNG color/hue, or attach color/hue to fame/karma. Remember Christmas bells? Christmas bags and boxes? Before they were dyeable, the truly rare ones (ice white, etc.) had a chance of spawning on high fame/high karma characters, also low karma characters (grey/black). They retained their value nicely. I can't say they've ultimately retained their value over the very long haul, as I just don't see them for sale in game these days. But they were highly desirable for years, despite being login and claim.

Another idea is to have a choice regarding character name, i.e. a such and such 'awarded to Conleth' or some such text can be attached to the item, if desired by the player/payer.

Seems to be a ton of folks who think the system is skewed in some way, perhaps we can focus on fixes for it.

And yes, I do like to dream!

Cheers

 

[Longtooths]

So just because someone doesn't want to "do the job themselves", they aren't entitled to an opinion on a service they pay for? I don't want to be a barber, but I still expect a decent haircut when I pay for the service.

The EM program is touted as the "live" content for UO, and is part of our subscription. As such, anyone with an active account should have a right to voice their concerns, even if they don't want to be an EM. Does that make every concern valid? I don't think so, but it also isn't an excuse for crappy events (or attitudes).

They have no obligation to provide said events at all. If you don't like the barber you go to another.

 

[RockoNV]

So just because someone doesn't want to "do the job themselves", they aren't entitled to an opinion on a service they pay for? I don't want to be a barber, but I still expect a decent haircut when I pay for the service.

This one time I went to the barber and he was a couple minutes late and when he finally arrived he told all of the customers that the barber shop was in danger. He said a rogue barber had stolen his scissors and was giving everyone bad haircuts. All of the patrons swore vengeance on the rogue barber. My barber led us to a small enclosed area where piles of hair attacked and many brave patrons died. Then, we found the rogue barber! It was an amazing fight but we won and after the victory I found there was specially hued scissors in my pack! I complained that the scissors were too pedestrian and that my barber gave bad haircuts.

 

[Merus]

They have no obligation to provide said events at all. If you don't like the barber you go to another.

I disagree. UO is a service that promotes the fact that it has "live" content.
Under your premise, how does any business have any obligation to its customers?

 

[Longtooths]

They

I disagree. UO is a service that promotes the fact that it has "live" content.
Under your premise, how does any business have any obligation to its customers?

You basically sign a contract with them to chew the content they supply. If they choose to do away with the EM events, Governor system and events...whatever...they are not breaking the contract with it's users. Online games add and remove content all the time. You can choose not to like that system, you can disagree with it and gnash your teeth but it is how it is.

 

[Merus]

They


You basically sign a contract with them to chew the content they supply. If they choose to do away with the EM events, Governor system and events...whatever...they are not breaking the contract with it's users. Online games add and remove content all the time. You can choose not to like that system, you can disagree with it and gnash your teeth but it is how it is.

I do agree that they have the choice whether to offer the content in the first place, but at present the have chosen to offer it. IMO, that creates an obligation for as long as it continues to be offered. Do we have the right to force Broadsword to do EM events, no. Do we have the right to voice our concerns over the EM events if Broadsword makes them part of UO, absolutely.

Consider:
If a restaurant decided to sell burgers, puts burgers on the menu and let's people pay for a burger, then they have created an obligation to serve a burger when one is ordered. And the idea that a customer would not have the option to complain if they were served a crappy burger unless they are willing to go back to the kitchen and make it themselves is absurd.

To argue that UO is somehow different because the product is a game instead of a burger makes no sense. Under your premise we shouldn't be able to complain about bugs, because unless we want to be coders for UO, we just get what we get. Our only other recourse is to quit. Customer feedback is (or should be) one of the cornerstones for any business, and that includes UO.

In my experience you are a pretty decent guy, but I think your line of logic here is extremely flawed.

 

[Merlin]

I think your line of logic here is extremely flawed.

Respectfully, as is the comparison of a hamburger to a video game. When was the last time you signed a contract to eat a hamburger?

Look - no one is saying you can't complain or voice concerns about an EM event, but they're not obligated to do much at all here. Unless I'm mistaken, the contract we signed didn't say they will be providing an EM event on every shard, every week.

 

[Merus]

Look - no one is saying you can't complain or voice concerns about an EM event, but they're not obligated to do much at all here. Unless I'm mistaken, the contract we signed didn't say they will be providing an EM event on every shard, every week.

IMO, that is exactly what Longtooths implied... That unless we are willing to be an EM, we have no right to complain about how they do their job.

I don't really care for all the lore.

This goes to prove the ole adage, you can not please everyone. The EM's do the best that they can. What to say to all these people that don't want to be an EM, yet in the same breath they have no problem telling the EM's how to do their jobs......

 

[Merus]

Respectfully, as is the comparison of a hamburger to a video game. When was the last time you signed a contract to eat a hamburger?

Pick any business you want... Burgers, haircuts, dishwashers, movies, financial services, tax returns... It really makes no difference... If a business offers something as part of its service or product, customers are entitled to provide feedback on it without the obligation to be willing to do it themselves. UO markets (as much as UO markets anything) "live" content, which includes EM events. As such, I believe players are entitled to provide feedback, both positive and negative, about those events.

To argue that we have no right to complain because EA/Broadsword has no obligation to do EM events fails IMO.

 

[Tina Small]

First line on the "Live Events" page of the uo.com website: "Live events and in-game events are a key feature in Ultima Online which makes it vastly different from any other MMORPG." Source: Live Events – Ultima Online

 

[Longtooths]

Pick any business you want... Burgers, haircuts, dishwashers, movies, financial services, tax returns... It really makes no difference... If a business offers something as part of its service or product, customers are entitled to provide feedback on it without the obligation to be willing to do it themselves. UO markets (as much as UO markets anything) "live" content, which includes EM events. As such, I believe players are entitled to provide feedback, both positive and negative, about those events.

To argue that we have no right to complain because EA/Broadsword has no obligation to do EM events fails IMO.

I did not say people do not have the right to complain. Nor did I say people have no right to complain because, "....EA/Broadsword has no obligation to do EM events" Of course people have a

What I did say was, " What to say to all these people that don't want to be an EM, yet in the same breath they have no problem telling the EM's how to do their jobs"

Of course people have a right to complain. It is when you start saying the UO has an obligation to listen to the complaining that I have a problem with.

I disagree. UO is a service that promotes the fact that it has "live" content.
Under your premise, how does any business have any obligation to its customers?

I love this. Listen, UO has absolutely no obligation to its customers complaints...period.

Now you can add a whole bunch of "IF's" after that but it is fact. If UO decides to shutdown the entire game tomorrow, where is this obligation to the customers complaints you speak of? If UO decides to remove the EM system from the game, where is the obligation that you speak of. They are not "Obligated" to cater to the customer in any way. Now.....it behooves them to listen to customer complaints, it might affect their bottom line etc etc. But in reality they are not obligated to jack.

 

[Merus]

I did not say people do not have the right to complain. Nor did I say people have no right to complain because, "....EA/Broadsword has no obligation to do EM events" Of course people have a

What I did say was, " What to say to all these people that don't want to be an EM, yet in the same breath they have no problem telling the EM's how to do their jobs"

Of course people have a right to complain. It is when you start saying the UO has an obligation to listen to the complaining that I have a problem with.



I love this. Listen, UO has absolutely no obligation to its customers complaints...period.

Now you can add a whole bunch of "IF's" after that but it is fact. If UO decides to shutdown the entire game tomorrow, where is this obligation to the customers complaints you speak of? If UO decides to remove the EM system from the game, where is the obligation that you speak of. They are not "Obligated" to cater to the customer in any way. Now.....it behooves them to listen to customer complaints, it might affect their bottom line etc etc. But in reality they are not obligated to jack.

Like I said, with this line of thinking, no business has any responsibility to its customers.

 

[BrianFreud]

Sorry @Longtooths, I made the mistake of assuming that Broadsword intends to continue as a viable business, with UO a viable product. Any business that were to act as you imply, discontinuing any new ongoing content for the game, ignoring the opinions and complaints of their customers, etc would quickly find that while we all enjoy playing UO, there's a limit to what folks will take. BS already has many of us close to quitting; if they were to actually do as you suggest, well, have fun playing on an Atlantic that's as depopulated as Balhae on the day they turn off the lights.

 

[Longtooths]

I did not say there would not be consequences to their actions. Again I am only saying that UO is under no obligation to do anything. That is fact.

How many times have users complained and threatened to quit if xxxx is not done or because xxxx was done or xxxxxx was removed.....its tired and old. UO as with any company listens to its customers and staff and weighs everything and then makes decisions. Not everyone will like them.

 

[BrianFreud]

How's this for accountable? In October, I had 36 accounts open. Due to my personal dissatisfaction, I now have only 10 accounts left open. I also have a 2 month old. Any accounts I close are staying closed.

If things don't change significantly in the near future - this means things actually *happening*, not just vague promises (art, steam, etc...) - then come June, I'll be closing 7 of the remaining accounts. I'm sure my then 4-month old can find something for me to spend that money on instead. Another 3 months after that, I'll start making the decision on those final 3 accounts.

 

[Nexus]

Respectfully, as is the comparison of a hamburger to a video game. When was the last time you signed a contract to eat a hamburger?

Look - no one is saying you can't complain or voice concerns about an EM event, but they're not obligated to do much at all here. Unless I'm mistaken, the contract we signed didn't say they will be providing an EM event on every shard, every week.

Giant Burger 5 lb Challenge - Welt and Welt

It does happen, some places when they have specialty items on the menu do require a signed wavier or contract. EM are in many ways specialty content. The EM's aren't employees of Broadsword, they are treated as independent contractors.

 

[Merlin]

Giant Burger 5 lb Challenge - Welt and Welt

I stand corrected!

 

[Longtooths]

How's this for accountable? In October, I had 36 accounts open. Due to my personal dissatisfaction, I now have only 10 accounts left open. I also have a 2 month old. Any accounts I close are staying closed.

If things don't change significantly in the near future - this means things actually *happening*, not just vague promises (art, steam, etc...) - then come June, I'll be closing 7 of the remaining accounts. I'm sure my then 4-month old can find something for me to spend that money on instead. Another 3 months after that, I'll start making the decision on those final 3 accounts.

Well there you go, definitive consequences. The next move (or not) is in UO's hands. Although I hate to see anyone leave UO, I highly suspect we will get to September +3 more accounts and be in the same situation.

I just want to reiterate that I did not say there are not consequences to UO's actions. Only that UO is under no obligations to its customers.

 

[Scribbles]

What I know from threads like these and similar ones about other areas of the game...

UO is doing it wrong. In the past year i have had more of my friends quit than in the previous 5 years. The staff is burnt out, they are out of ideas, they dont have the knowledge/resources to actually do anything, they lie by omission constantly, when do try to tell the truth its actually wrong because they dont know the game, they are losing customers and dont seem to care, they IMO are done. Most of my friends that have quit all say the same thing. The staff ruined some part of the game that was keeping them there in the first place.

They have let their customer base get to this point. I refuse to blame the people that are still paying for this game. The only fault left is that of the staff as they are the only ones in control.