@Mesanna - EM Accountability Regarding Events

[Merus]

@Mesanna

I have some questions/issues related to things I see happening at EM events that I think warrant discussion, and IMO, some direction from the top. I am not going to name any EM specifically, if Stratics users recognize the issue and an associated EM, please just focus on the issue. I will also say, some of these really aren't new.

1. UO.com event calendar: Why is it not mandatory that EM's put their events here and keep it up to date?
2. Event boss timing: Spawning the event boss while other event monsters are still being defeated causes issues. At best, it promotes folks just standing around not fighting anything... just waiting for the boss. At worst, it provides the appearance of the EM popping out the boss so their friends have the best chance at the drop. Some of the EMs are very good about waiting until everything else is dead and folks have had a moment to res and get back to their corpse before the final mob is brought out. IMO, this should be standard procedure. It is fair and avoids even the appearance of collusion.
3. Event boss location: I know that with all the gargoyles flapping, summons wandering about, and herds of greater dragons it can be hard to see the ground, much less find a good open space. That said, spawning an event boss the size of a bloodworm under the pile is kinda lame. Again here, some EMs have been really good about spawning the event boss in highly visible locations (up the side of a mountain, out in the water, or on the roof of a building).
4. Event healers: I am not sure why some EMs wait to put out healers until half way through the fighting. It would seem to me that they should know where they intend to start dropping mobs and have healers in place before anyone arrives. To go hand in hand with that, the healers should be in a place that players would have a reasonable chance at living more than 1 second before getting res killed. Having a small (or large) area with wall to wall monsters and no way out for a ghost leaves dead people in a lurch.

In my experience, some of the EM do an excellent job of their events, even related to the issues above... While some do not. When I, or others I have seen, raise the issue with the EM directly, we are often met with *shrugs* or a "not my problem" attitude. If they aren't interested in constructive feedback directly from the players when there is an issue, perhaps some direction from you would help.

 

[Mesanna]

Posting is mandatory on uo.com for all events. could you ease contact me directly so we can be more specific please at [email protected].

thank you

 

[Lythos-]

I'm not sure if this is from events or town meetings but on Atlantic but I'm starting to see unremovable player made deco litter.

Events and meetings should be cleaned up promptly afterwards or at least unlocked so it decays.

 

[Acid Rain]

@ɒnnɒƨɘM Thanks again for taking time to read & reply here. It is greatly appreciated.

Stratics Mods - for some reason my @(user name) didn't highlight or link correctly. I copied her name exactly as it shows.
You may want to look into this.

 

[Merus]

Posting is mandatory on uo.com for all events. could you ease contact me directly so we can be more specific please at [email protected].

thank you

Email has been sent.

 

[JC the Builder]

Another issue is that the EM said last night he set the boss monster's HP to the maximum value with 95% in each resistance, but it still dropped in 10 seconds. Lots of people complained that they didn't even have a chance to pull its health bar.

I don't know what the maximum value is, but shouldn't it be increased?

 

[Merus]

Another issue is that the EM said last night he set the boss monster's HP to the maximum value with 95% in each resistance, but it still dropped in 10 seconds. Lots of people complained that they didn't even have a chance to pull its health bar.

I don't know what the maximum value is, but shouldn't it be increased?

In all honesty, what kind of fool event boss has 95 in every resist. The ONLY attack that has any chance is armor ignore. Event mobs should have tons and tons of hit points and about 30 in each resist so that all kinds of attacks have the chance to amass enough damage to get looting right.

All of that said, it makes little difference if it's spawned under a mass of players and dragons so you never get to see it.

 

[SlobberKnocker]

what is the drop currently selling for?

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

I could be wrong here but almost all of the main critters at EM events spawn with 95 in each resist and have gotten looting rights on all different types of play styles (from tamer to pure mage). Sure, I don't disagree with you that it is a pita when a smaller critter spawns and then there is a pile of 75 GD's on it (at least) in a millisecond but who's fault is that? The EM???? Heck naw man, it's the players fault. We are the ones bringing the massive herd of GD's. Why? Because the main critters hit hard and have tons of hp's and high resists... viscous circle... increase the hp's and guess what? Yeah, even more folks will bring GD's lol...

Not belittling your stance here @Merus. It was frustrating for me as well because I was among those who never even got to pull the bar nor attack the thing last night but I know the EM(s) in question always want to do the best they can do for the players. BUT.. at the same time they do know you can't please everyone all the time, and they do seem to do their best in making adjustments where they can.

Personally I would rather see huge bosses, like TRex, Grape Ape art, but there is only so many fiction cycles they would fit in.

 

[Merus]

I could be wrong here but almost all of the main critters at EM events spawn with 95 in each resist and have gotten looting rights on all different types of play styles (from tamer to pure mage). Sure, I don't disagree with you that it is a pita when a smaller critter spawns and then there is a pile of 75 GD's on it (at least) in a millisecond but who's fault is that? The EM???? Heck naw man, it's the players fault. We are the ones bringing the massive herd of GD's. Why? Because the main critters hit hard and have tons of hp's and high resists... viscous circle... increase the hp's and guess what? Yeah, even more folks will bring GD's lol...

Not belittling your stance here @Merus. It was frustrating for me as well because I was among those who never even got to pull the bar nor attack the thing last night but I know the EM(s) in question always want to do the best they can do for the players. BUT.. at the same time they do know you can't please everyone all the time, and they do seem to do their best in making adjustments where they can.

Personally I would rather see huge bosses, like TRex, Grape Ape art, but there is only so many fiction cycles they would fit in.

Yes, the mass of players, summons and pets are an issue that the EM has no control over. And you can't keep the event mob out of reach for the whole fight... but I see plenty of EM's who spawn the event boss out of reach of the players... up on a roof, up on a mountain, out in the ocean... it stays there for a few seconds... long enough for folks to pull the bar before it plunges into the sea of dragons. Regardless of the size of the mob, I think this approach is WAY better than just spawning the boss and blaming the players for having pets.

I rarely bring a tamer to an event, so I can't speak to the resists of most critters... just the hypothetical that if you give mobs such high resists, you ultimately favor AI even if that wasn't your intention.

 

[Merus]

what is the drop currently selling for?

What drop is that?

 

[Smoot]

At least it was better than the last LA drop event. the drop boss was twice as easy to kill as the other mobs, just thrown in randomly in the middle of the event with no storyline letting the players know the boss was about to spawn.

Some EMs do this on purpose in an attempt to make people "participate" in everything and reduce the "all kill" boss rush mentality.

I was at the Atlc event last night and while it was crowded, i think thats to be expected now. there were 140 players at the event, yes the boss could have been placed better, or had at least some special effects, but it being placed in a cramped, crowded mob could be an intentional method to deal with event issues like the crowds created by the random drop system.

What im saying is, tho its very frustrating, some EMs do this intentially as a way to deal with event issues. I agree, in alot of cases it could be done better, but like anything some people are just more skilled at problem solving than others.

 

[drcossack]

Yes, the mass of players, summons and pets are an issue that the EM has no control over. And you can't keep the event mob out of reach for the whole fight... but I see plenty of EM's who spawn the event boss out of reach of the players... up on a roof, up on a mountain, out in the ocean... it stays there for a few seconds... long enough for folks to pull the bar before it plunges into the sea of dragons. Regardless of the size of the mob, I think this approach is WAY better than just spawning the boss and blaming the players for having pets.

I rarely bring a tamer to an event, so I can't speak to the resists of most critters... just the hypothetical that if you give mobs such high resists, you ultimately favor AI even if that wasn't your intention.

Yup. The last event boss on my home shard had EVERY resist above 90, with two at 100%. It took forever for us to kill the thing, and that's not factoring in the mobs it spawned (Shimmering Effusion as its base model) - I had asked if there was a bard in gen chat, then checked the barding difficulty. Fighting an Event Boss with Covetous level 3/level 4 resists isn't my idea of fun. Bosses like that require throwers, sampires, and whammies - without Armor Ignore, you/your pets aren't gonna do a lot of damage.

edited to remove shard name.

 

[Merus]

I think lots of folks have experience something related to one of the issues I raised above, and I know it's kinda hard to talk about them without sighting examples, but the last thing I want this to end up at is bashing on any particular EM. I know they all work hard and I think most of them are trying (at least most of the time).

If you all will indulge me, please try not to mention specific ems, or which shard/event you took issue with.

 

[drcossack]

I think lots of folks have experience something related to one of the issues I raised above, and I know it's kinda hard to talk about them without sighting examples, but the last thing I want this to end up at is bashing on any particular EM. I know they all work hard and I think most of them are trying (at least most of the time).

If you all will indulge me, please try not to mention specific ems, or which shard/event you took issue with.

Fair enough. If you can't get the bar (which is a good thing for the EMs to do), it's HELL trying to get the proper bar. I've had some success with ctrl+shift - the easy part is FINDING the red bar in the sea of blue. At other times I've just used my get nearest target macro, then hit all kill and last target. However, that is much more difficult to do, depending on the # of RC's and EVs present - while I can't actually attack them, they're still eligible for my targeting macro due to having a red health bar. Would changing the highlight color for murderers do anything?

That said, having the ability to use my targeting macros is why I usually bring a tamer. If the boss has an AoE ability my thrower/sampire can just auto-attack, but still.

 

[GarthGrey]

On siege we only have a handful of GDs at events, which still can be brutal on those of us without an All Kill fetish, as we stam block our way to Lootingrightsville.

 

[Merus]

Fair enough. If you can't get the bar (which is a good thing for the EMs to do), it's HELL trying to get the proper bar. I've had some success with ctrl+shift - the easy part is FINDING the red bar in the sea of blue. At other times I've just used my get nearest target macro, then hit all kill and last target. However, that is much more difficult to do, depending on the # of RC's and EVs present - while I can't actually attack them, they're still eligible for my targeting macro due to having a red health bar. Would changing the highlight color for murderers do anything?

That said, having the ability to use my targeting macros is why I usually bring a tamer. If the boss has an AoE ability my thrower/sampire can just auto-attack, but still.

I think there have been other threads to suggest changing the color of summons to something other than red. I think that is a great idea.

However, I think there are things the EMs can do (and some do actually use) to mitigate issues that don't really require coding. With some advanced planning and a little strategy, there are ways to improve the overall experience of some events.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

EC is brilliant for this. Set filters and see the bosses bar immediately.

 

[Landicine]

I do agree about increasing overall hit points. To increase a fight from 10 seconds to 2 minutes is 12x more HP, assuming the same resists. We need monsters in the multiple millions it seems.

I think dropping the resists is a bad idea. Someone check my math:

Typical Boss Mobs: 30k (Stygian Dragon) - 100k (Peerless)

A group has to do ~600k to ~2 million damage if the resists are 95s.
A group has to only do ~43K to ~143k if the resists are 30s.

If you want the much lower resists but want the monster to stay up as long, you need like 13-14x more hit points. Low resists also favor certain brute force tactics (dragons). If 95s are dropping in less than half a minute, lower resists will just make combat short and stupid.

I think this is more an issue with how game mechanics interact with events and less something that can be mitigated with how events are setup. Honestly, the number of dragons and multis has increased over time. We also modify our behaviors and template choices based on what gives us the best chance of reward. I'd rather have a good mechanical system in place than rely on the EMs to always know and apply mitigators.

 

[Merus]

I do agree about increasing overall hit points. To increase a fight from 10 seconds to 2 minutes is 12x more HP, assuming the same resists. We need monsters in the multiple millions it seems.

I think dropping the resists is a bad idea. Someone check my math:

Typical Boss Mobs: 30k (Stygian Dragon) - 100k (Peerless)

A group has to do ~600k to ~2 million damage if the resists are 95s.
A group has to only do ~43K to ~143k if the resists are 30s.

If you want the much lower resists but want the monster to stay up as long, you need like 13-14x more hit points. Low resists also favor certain brute force tactics (dragons). If 95s are dropping in less than half a minute, lower resists will just make combat short and stupid.

I think this is more an issue with how game mechanics interact with events and less something that can be mitigated with how events are setup. Honestly, the number of dragons and multis has increased over time. We also modify our behaviors and template choices based on what gives us the best chance of reward. I'd rather have a good mechanical system in place than rely on the EMs to always know and apply mitigators.

I do agree that the actual composition/balance of the event boss has issues.
You are also right that as players, we use what we think gives us the best chance at a drop. Throwers deal lots of damage. Dragons absorb lots of damage. It's no wonder we see so many of each at events. I would love to see event bosses that level the field a little more than we see today. Maybe then we would see a little fewer dragon stampedes.

 

[arkiu]

Last nights atl event was bogus... And though it was enormously frustrating that they spawned the boss in the worst enclosed and dense area and it died in a matter of 15 seconds - this isnt what killed me. The EM's response is what killed me when they said we should have brought turtles instead of gd's. In other words, they kinda suggested it was the players fault.

GDs and garg animations annoy me at events and i think EMs should try and figure out a type of em event that doesnt allow em - an area like blackthorns castle for example. But a lousy event should never be put on the players. Was simply poor planning.

I do enjoy and look forward to events tho. Was just a bad one. Hope they get an EM for catskills soon!

 

[THP]

all drop clicky- sorted - everyone is happy - everyone gets a reward- nobody moans....how easy is that....sort it please

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

all drop clicky- sorted - everyone is happy - everyone gets a reward- nobody moans....how easy is that....sort it please

Nah... pass... we don't need the "participation trophy" mentality to inundate UO ...

 

[THP]

Nah... pass... we don't need the "participation trophy" mentality to inundate UO ...

ill bet its a winner if it went to a vote...just saying...it would stop ALL moaning and events would be fun again without the frustration of never being lucky

 

[Lord Nabin]

Posting is mandatory on uo.com for all events. could you ease contact me directly so we can be more specific please at [email protected].

thank you

Thanks for a very quick reply. Means a lot to the Community

 

[Lord Frodo]

Nah... pass... we don't need the "participation trophy" mentality to inundate UO ...

Because we all know that the sellers would lose their rares to sell and GOD forbid we should take that away from them.

 

[StealYourFace]

I agree that all EMs should put their events on the calendar on uo. Com . Also they should update if they are going to cancel one or reschedual it.

I go to a lot of events. I even go to events when I know there is not going to be a drop. I went to the lake Austin event last night knowing there would not be a drop because I enjoy doing events. If I get a drop that's fine if I don't get one that's fine also.

What I don't enjoy is poorly thought out events. I'll give an EM a pass a pass if they mess one up here and there. I understand that they have to come up with something new every week or every other week, but some of the EMs consistently screw up the ending. I don't like that some of them won't take feedback from the players and make adjustments.

Now for a positive. This same discussion came up a few months ago. I can tell that some of the EMs read that thread because I've seen more EMs spawn the boss out away from everyone so that you have time to grab the bar before it turns into a free for all. I've noticed more EMs putting up yellow healers that can't be killed by jack ass players. To those EMs THANK YOU. You make my play time more enjoyable.

 

[King Greg]

How hard would it be to add in a "Hide Item" Feature where you can remove the image of certain images from your client by targetting them and then a reset to put them all back? this might remove the problems that players have with dragons/players/etc covering up the bosses/em's etc.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Because we all know that the sellers would lose their rares to sell and GOD forbid we should take that away from them.

Exactly.

Not to mention it also gives players who do not have millions and millions of gold the chance to get millions. *shrugs* Eliminate that chance and em events will tail off in numbers rather quickly sadly.

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

I love how you say "Participation Trophy" like people didn't participate and others that put out more damage deserve it more or that a "Participation Trophy" is somehow less honorable than a "I got a lucky RNG drop." LOL

 

[Smoot]

whats the fun of having something that everyone else has? thats the whole point of rare collecting. In game and in real life.
id be fine with the rares collectors abandoning EM events / drops as long as something else were put int the game that was rare (non-permanant spawn) as well as low numbers (5 to 20) Ideally id like to see this content extremely difficult, making the use of the legendaries jewels, masteries, and all new gear options the devs have provided needed to obtain these items. The events are fun, easy, but just not challenging. but we do need something to collect and right now EM events are all that fulfill that need.

 

[MalagAste]

whats the fun of having something that everyone else has? thats the whole point of rare collecting. In game and in real life.
id be fine with the rares collectors abandoning EM events / drops as long as something else were put int the game that was rare (non-permanant spawn) as well as low numbers (5 to 20)

There are rare things like the pick and shovel that are 1337.... and the Moonstone jeweler that spawns on the Cook if you kill him a billion and one times and things like that..... IMO there ought to be more of those "Easter Egg" Style rarities and WAY less of the glut of EM event drops that only gratify 10 or 20 people... and if you only play ONE shard and you don't do events on EVERY shard like some players that ONE chance sucks when there are 40 or 50 people there from another shard who could care less about the event or the item they just want the gold. And IMO it has ruined the events for people who live there. So if the rest of the shard of people have less to do because they are sick and tired of never getting anything from going to the EM event but stress and irritating then IMO they are more inclined to QUIT... and honestly I've heard a BUNCH of talk of that.... and complaints about not being able to follow the story with all the BS going on at the Event.... not ever getting a drop no matter how long they have tried some YEARS...

So in all fairness.... I'd prefer to have clicky drops... leave the rares crap rare ..... I"m sorry but EM event drops are no longer a rare..... there are so freaking many that honestly just because it's the 15th pixie dyed yet another color with yet another silly name does NOT make it a rare.... it's just another pixie drop.

 

[Smoot]

There are rare things like the pick and shovel that are 1337.... and the Moonstone jeweler that spawns on the Cook if you kill him a billion and one times and things like that..... IMO there ought to be more of those "Easter Egg" Style rarities and WAY less of the glut of EM event drops that only gratify 10 or 20 people... .

i agree, however the things like the shovel and moonstone earrings just arent appealing because they arent technically rares. plus, from personal preference id prefer battling difficult content rather than the RNG. the amount of time dedicated to getting either of those easter egg drops is just not realisitic. personally id rather build a full suit of legendaries, a perfect template, perhaps a good group (or encounter where only 1 person was allowed in)

basically put in the work and skill to get a reward. think wow in its early days. thats all changed now (and large reason i quit wow years ago) to be much more casual, but originally being part of the 1% or less that even saw end game content was a reward in and of itself. let alone any tangible rewards coming from such encounters.

also agree that the modern EM system isnt exactly "rares" its more like high end deco at this point. i do still like attending events, but dont value them the same as the older, "rarer" items. for example the most recent rare i added to my collection (still an EM item but older one when numbers were lower) i had to sell about 7 recent EM items to be able to pay for that 1 older item that as a rare collector has more value to me than the newest stuff.

but really this is all nice to talk about, but its just not going to happen in UO. UO is not that kind of game and will never be.

 

[Promathia]

Can the thread not be turned into the usual "EM Items are evil" by the same usual suspects?

Merus has good points for discussion.

 

[Victim of Siege]

Can the thread not be turned into the usual "EM Items are evil" by the same usual suspects?

Merus has good points for discussion.

Yeah, turn it into an EC vs CC thread like normally happens . . .

 

[leet]

Yeah, turn it into an EC vs CC thread like normally happens . . .

Sure, give the Classic client a disable gargoyle flappy wings like the EC client has please =P

 

[MalagAste]

Sure, give the Classic client a disable gargoyle flappy wings like the EC client has please =P

That's not as great as you'd like it to be trust me... they are then always out just right in the way.

As for the EC we get constant crashing when they use mobs with Nova Blast or severe lag... and insane lag when opening public corpses and game crashing lag trying to open Mob Boss corpses. So both have their advantages..

 

[Gamer_Goblin]

You make an analogy against real life rare collecting and MMO rare collecting. The big difference is that in real life the rares weren't rare until they were made so. You're asking for devs to artificially create rares instead of allowing either a skill gate all players have a chance at or to allow an item to truly become rare.

 

[Smoot]

You make an analogy against real life rare collecting and MMO rare collecting. The big difference is that in real life the rares weren't rare until they were made so. You're asking for devs to artificially create rares instead of allowing either a skill gate all players have a chance at or to allow an item to truly become rare.

i dont understand your logic. for example, in real life i collect antique poison bottles. they were always rare because some varieties just werent made much. its the same with any rare collectables. their rare because not many existed in the first place, and usually become more rare / harder to find over time because of loss, destruction etc (which is actually the same thing when it comes to UO rares) i guess i just dont understand you saying "the rares weren't rare until they were made so" I kinda get what your saying that the EM drops are intentionaly made in limited quantities, while say my antique bottles just happened to be made in rare quantities by chance, but the result is the same. low numbers. never available again. collectable.

 

[Tyrath]

Yeah, turn it into an EC vs CC thread like normally happens . . .

Or a F2P debate

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Nova Blast

Forgive the quick hijack... but just returned from a lengthy break... what the heck is this Nova blast... been hearing about it and Nova kegs and can't find anything on it.

*insert random noob comment here*

 

[kelmo]

These are not the rares you are looking for.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

These are not the rares you are looking for.

lol

I think some would be looking for The Head Of Kelmo to lock in their floor.. but with bounty system being gone....

 

[MalagAste]

Forgive the quick hijack... but just returned from a lengthy break... what the heck is this Nova blast... been hearing about it and Nova kegs and can't find anything on it.

*insert random noob comment here*

Its a special move done by a lot of the newer boss mobs that causes the whole screen to flash white over and over... far more devastating to many graphics cards than the rings of fire that some other mobs do which can also cause the client to crash or crawl and no matter how many times we beg and plead and ask them not to use it..... they still do.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Forgive the quick hijack... but just returned from a lengthy break... what the heck is this Nova blast... been hearing about it and Nova kegs and can't find anything on it.

*insert random noob comment here*

Fight a Corgul or the Primeval Lich to experience a nova blast. The Slasher has a similarly EC-killing screen flash attack.

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

Oh yeah... I am familiar with those lol... they bottling that up in Nova Kegs for players now??? *shudders at the thought*

 

[kelmo]

It is just my opinion that EM rares are not true rares. The events on Siege are pretty cool. I have several EM unique items. My favorite collection is all three EM named robes from the "olympics".

My point is that these items are valued appropriately on Siege. They are not going anywhere.

 

[Dot_Warner]

Oh yeah... I am familiar with those lol... they bottling that up in Nova Kegs for players now??? *shudders at the thought*

The potions are significantly less annoying and don't cripple the client.

There is a smaller nova-like blast that is also less client killing, but it seems those aren't used anymore

 

[Modoc]

I'm not sure if this is from events or town meetings but on Atlantic but I'm starting to see unremovable player made deco litter.

Events and meetings should be cleaned up promptly afterwards or at least unlocked so it decays.

 

[Modoc]

what is the drop currently selling for?