Low Level T Maps

[CovenantX]

Why should I either have to wait 5 - 20 minutes or fight guardians with no loot? Explain that to me. It is not adapting, it is a downright major change that was pointless other than to try and revive a skill that gets little to no use. What other professions need to wait 5-20 minutes or kill a bunch of things without any loot for their trouble?

Old way:
1. FInd chest and digup
2. unlock chest and pop guardians
3. Kill guardians and loot them
4. Pull items from chest, taking what you want and dropping the rest into a bag next to it to pull more guardians. (rarely kept any armor/jewery/weapons)
5. Keep if you want (I did) regs, scrolls, gems, essences, level 6 or 7 marty.
6. Take gold and leave

New way:
1. Find chest and digup
2. unlock chest and fight guardians
3. Kill initial guardians and loot them.
4. Either run remove trap a bunch taking damage and fighting guardians with no loot or wait 5-20 minutes to be able to loot chest
5. Look over items, take gold, leave

I never used mining but now I need to add remove trap and remove points from something I needed or wait 5-20 minutes

Well that (underlined & bolded portion) sums up this entire conversation about old maps vs new maps.

So your argument has nothing to do with the randomly generated loot in the chest being better or worse than before?
Instead it's more about:

1. Guardians with no loot OR a wait time. - Sure I agree it would be better without it. However comparing the loot quality now vs prepatch seems a fair trade though considering how bad the quality of loot was prior to the revamp.

2. Essences (imbuing) & m-arty. - It takes longer to build a stock of essences from T-mapping than it used to, sure. but the m-arty?

 

[Keven2002]

Well that (underlined & bolded portion) sums up this entire conversation about old maps vs new maps.

So your argument has nothing to do with the randomly generated loot in the chest being better or worse than before?
Instead it's more about:

1. Guardians with no loot OR a wait time. - Sure I agree it would be better without it. However comparing the loot quality now vs prepatch seems a fair trade though considering how bad the quality of loot was prior to the revamp.

2. Essences (imbuing) & m-arty. - It takes longer to build a stock of essences from T-mapping than it used to, sure. but the m-arty?

This pretty much says everything I was trying to get across @DreadLord Lestat . Again your biggest gripe is about the guardians which I've told you twice how to get around. I would literally do maps for hours pre-change (20-30 at a time). After the change I can still do maps for hours... and by the time I recall around I deal with zero guardians (haven't actually had to kill a guardian in quite some time). Your counter is that you don't want to have to do that because you didn't before. UO has had revamps/nerfs (more nerfs than anything) for the past 20+ years where things you used to do no longer work. It happens, you adapt and move on.

For the record i didn't attack you at all, sorry if me disagreeing with you makes you think I'm attacking you. I thought what I said and what @CovenantX said were respectful and accurate.

Well, obviously you are not going to believe me and you just want to spin what I said. I'm not going to drag my friend into your bitchfight. I'm pretty sure most Stratics players remember how there were plenty of artifacts on sale from tmaps.

@petemage - When you actually give a valid argument or proof without jumping all around deflecting maybe I will believe you. You were the one saying people sold things for 250m then you dropped it down to 5m as soon as I questioned it (and your last post even says "free"...aka junk?).

You are also saying "pretty sure stratics players remember there were plenty of items for sale from T-maps" which completely misses my point (when it comes to you it doesn't surprise me) that whatever "sick items" of 250M+ that were sold before from Tmaps (aside from no name legendary), there would be more now because there are more legendary items in general in chests and that's a fact. Again, no need to take it from several people posting in this thread agreeing with me... feel free to go play the game and you will see that yourself.

Looks like @CovenantX also questions your claim.... again where is your support or others claiming that there was just so much "sick loot" overflowing from the chests?? There was a time when T-maps had good loot but that was like 15 years ago and was long nerfed.

every lv 6+ map huh, you must still use a majority of imbued items on all of your characters for that to be true.

Time for you to become double triggered and make another half-wit post disregard facts and claiming everyone else falls short on their argument.

For the record I'm not for every piece of the change but ultimately the change went in over a year ago and it's not ever going back to what it was so it is what it is. I was simply trying to point out that a few people on this thread are making extremely biased claims simply because they are mad things were changed.

 

[petemage]

every lv 6+ map huh, you must still use a majority of imbued items on all of your characters for that to be true.

every other week a sick high-end artifact, got any pics of one? Hopefully it's not one of those pre-patch 10+ property pieces because it would have nothing to do with t-maps & t-maps would have been literally the least efficient method of farming them. - I've sold several legendaries after the revamp for 150m+ a guildie of mine sold an item from a t-map for 200m just a few weeks ago. maps are very profitable much more now than they used to be.




if that was kyronix's goal with the map revamp, it's a failure. the only part of that "group activity" that could be viewed as success, is Eodon Maps spawning Allosaurus' with 20k hp (which is more boring than fun) and the loot quantity bump (low chance for small quantity increases) based on party size.

Oh god, another one. I said "a dozen of items". Yes, this includes, tasty treats, regs, gold, vines, scrolls, and more. I enjoyed it, feel free to tell me that I didn't.

Yes, tmaps were not the most efficient way to farm artifacts, please quote were I should have said this. I never did. Just if you did a lot of them, they yielded a fair share of sellable artifacts. They still do - as you pointed out - but it takes a lot more chest now since its still RNG and the chests hold a lot less artifacts. Not sure where I shall have said otherwise, but you guys read what you want to read anyway.

You guys (@CovenantX and @Keven2002 ) are arguing just for the sake of it *smh* No matter what I say, it's all fairytales to you. Believe what you want to. I dug tons of tmaps. I know exactly how things were before the change. And I'm not going to drag anyone else into this bitchfight just because you guys demand "proof". Feel free to believe whatever you want. You probably don't even believe that I closed my account over it

@DreadLord Lestat is very point on

 

[CovenantX]

Oh god, another one. I said "a dozen of items". Yes, this includes, tasty treats, regs, gold, vines, scrolls, and more. I enjoyed it, feel free to tell me that I didn't.

Perhaps you should learn how to specify then. It's funny because someone mentioned that earlier in the thread referring to 'loot bump' not being specific enough... you have to be blind to not see the irony here.

It's clear in every post I've made I'm referring to 'randomly generated items'. I mean, I only mentioned it in my first post in this thread.

Yes, tmaps were not the most efficient way to farm artifacts, please quote were I should have said this.

Yep, never were the most efficient way to farm 10+ mod (now pre-patch) items... I guess I wasn't specific enough in the part you didn't understand somehow.
reading a post you quote Should shape your response. otherwise you look like you're not paying attention as the evidence would suggest is going on here.

You guys (@CovenantX and @Keven2002 ) are arguing just for the sake of it *smh* No matter what I say, it's all fairytales to you. Believe what you want to. I dug tons of tmaps. I know exactly how things were before the change. And I'm not going to drag anyone else into this bitchfight just because you guys demand "proof". Feel free to believe whatever you want. You probably don't even believe that I closed my account over it

@DreadLord Lestat is very point on

You're the one claiming items from old t-maps sold for 250m+ but you're against showing any examples?

I'll show you an example to back up my claim though... #1

 

[Keven2002]

Well... @CovenantX beat me to the response but pretty much said what I was going to say.

One thing I'd point out is that @petemage mentioned "tasty treats, regs, gold, vines, scrolls, etc. " as chest drops and while they aren't in every single chest, they are still in treasure chests. Also things like gold and gems you are actually getting much more on average now than before (especially with pink/blues/tmaps in the new chests).

In regards to the other items... You can't seriously be trying to argue that the chests were basically nerfed because things like reagents/vines/magic scrolls were removed from every single chest?? I guess on that same note you include things like Surge Shields in your "etc" which again are junk that nobody uses. Again you are the only person I've seen make these claims. These are all the items that an overwhelming majority of treasure hunters did not want in every single chest. I hated having to remove 8-10 scrolls / loose reags / gems. The surge shields/sashes/vines all went either in the trash or left on the ground after about the 3rd chest.

And I'm not going to drag anyone else into this bitchfight just because you guys demand "proof".

If you had at least made a valid point like @DreadLord Lestat did about something useful like the essences being all but removed, I could support that but you aren't. Instead you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing when you try to say chests were nerfed because reags/scrolls are no longer in the chests and you would get "sick loot" that sold for 250M+ every other week but refuse to give any proof " just because you demand proof".

Great argument.

Said another way... you won't provide proof because you don't have any. Got it.

Anyone can make an unfounded claim without providing proof. Like I could say you are an idiot without proof and there is a chance I'd be wrong....but if I say you are an idiot and provide a majority of your post in this thread, well...then that would be proof to support my claim

 

[petemage]

Let's put the trolls on ignore for a bit. Next they ask for my birth certificate or question my existence. Enough of that nonsense.

I suppose when Keven says he hated to remove items he never looted any chest in the grid view. Maybe that explains how he never found a useful item. I usually just took what was worth it and left the rest in the chest *shrugs* I had my own EC mod for that. Or maybe I didn't?

Good times, for as long as it lasted. In fact some of my best times while playing UO, no troll can take that away from me.

 

[Keven2002]

Typical response from someone who knows they can't back up their bogus argument (claims to ignore people he disagrees with then immediately after makes a remark against one of them...). Very mature.

1) I don't use EC so there is no such thing as grid view.
2) Please provide the post where I said I "never found a useful item".... go ahead I'll wait. What I did say is that loose reagents and scrolls were all things nobody wanted and asked to be removed.

Keep proving me right with your idiotic post

 

[Picus of Napa]

Did they remove the coffin parts one could find on the level 7's?

 

[petemage]

I honestly don't know what your point is @Keven2002, besides doubting literally any word I say We seem to have had some very different expierences before the change.

 

[Cinderella]

Did they remove the coffin parts one could find on the level 7's?

all decorative items are in Cache & above

I have found one in a Malas Cache chest
(that treasure hunter doesn't have lockpicking)

I forgot to check what the package was...
because I am curious to see which ones they are in too.

 

[Basara]

Speaking as a THB Guildmaster....

1. Stash, Supply and Cache can now be done by someone with zero Lockpicking skill. All you really need is Magery and Cartography. Whether that is a plus or minus depends on your view of maps in general. There's still two map levels that require true TH (with LP), and far too many of the people considering themselves TH purists have long acted like the old maps equivalent to those three new lower levels weren't worth their time.

2. Remove Trap is used but not required - it just delays out things if you don't have it. This is actually more annoying from my experience training up RT for the lower maps, than the higher ones. Mainly, this is because I've found that the higher maps sorta equal out. If you solo a Trove or Hoard, you're likely gonna take 10-20 minutes to kill all the spawn, especially if you end up with a bunch of GD/FD/AW (hell, I had a level 7 once on Tram Bucs that had 6 or 7 uber-dragon types and a Balron, that by the time I killed all the spawn, the chest contents despawned). There's not going to be a lot of lootless ancient spawn. If you're going to lead a group on a hoard or Trove dig, you're more likely to want GM Remove Trap. It's not as big a deal as many of you make it out for the higher maps - it's only a pain in the rear doing Cache and lower solo without RT.

3. The idea of the loot theming was great in theory, but sucks in execution. The Regs need to be in all of the mage chests, not just one level. Some of the choices for theme loot are bizarre, or are for items that have very little demand. Craftsman stuff should be in all levels, as well. Special items should not be limited to the low chests, and something really needs to be done to fix the gold skeleton keys. Spell scrolls should be in the Stash and Supply.

4. Loot level really needs to have bottom caps ascending as the chest level goes up - but a legendary item with great properties is still a turd, if on the wrong type of weapon or armor (and loot theming is a major instigator in that regard).

5. The way maps spawn in the chest is interesting. Besides the base chance for a new map 1 level higher, if there's a chance for SOT/Alacrity/PS scrolls, some or all of them may be additional T-maps instead of scrolls. This is another one of those bad or good ideas depending on your reason for doing maps.

I'd give the changes a grade of C. I've kept more from them than from before the changes, but that's in terms of SoTs, SoAs, PS, and T-maps, and the massive amounts of gold and gems. Field usable items, regs, etc. on the other hand have suffered - and the reduced numbers of items per chest and the theming reduce the chance of getting something worth keeping.

The Devs aren't going to listen, but they would really be better serving the userbase if they'd put together a group of people who actively play TH characters, get them into a discord (more text than voice), and let them hash out changes interacting with one of the BS people a few hours a night over a week. The changes that could result would probably take less programming time to implement than BS actually thinks.

 

[Keven2002]

Well said @Basara and I'd agree on each point.

One thing I'm not sure if you have been able to determine is if a chest with 8 stone frags ends up with less loot... sometimes it seems like the ones with them have less Trans/Alac/Maps but could just be the RNG.

 

[Picus of Napa]

It's a real shame that the team didn't add "treasure" like a 1/10 120 in fel or a CC/swampy/etc in tram and so on. Nothing sold in store but things that reasonably should have been buried away from evil eyes.