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[Archery] Looking for a archery build

DreadLord Lestat

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My archer is currently a disco/archer. I am looking for something fun to try but something I can do some solo stuff with. Currently my template is as follows:
111.9/120 Archery
103/120 Chivalry
102.3/120 Discord
110/110 Tactics
110/120 Music
110/120 Peace
the rest in focus going down
 

Mac

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Well Howdy Lestat,

I've only been back a few weeks but I remember your name and I wanna say we played together regularly, but that maybe me talking out my backside. I'm old and it would have been many years ago.

Anyways, I'm kinda in the same boat as you, only I'm an ABC archer. Looking for somethiong with a bit more ommphh so to speak.

Skill/real/cap
Anat 117.7/120
Tactics 105/115
Bush 80/115
Chiv 100/115
Archery 117.3/120 (gem to 120)
Healing 100/110
Resist 100/100

You can tell, based on caps and present levels, I've been thru a few different builds. All of them fun, but looking for more/different/nastier/something?

Were you on Baja back in the day Lestat, in the guild SOA? Is that where I know you from?

Anyways, good luck to us both and anyone who can assist with some ideas.

Haz
 

DreadLord Lestat

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Were you on Baja back in the day Lestat, in the guild SOA? Is that where I know you from?
I have played on Baja off and on but was never in a guild. I mainly played Cats years ago. I moved to LA when it opened and then to Chessy in 2007.
 
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Merlin

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My wraith archer:
Archery, Tactics, Anatomy, Chivalry, Resist Spells, Spirit Speak, Focus

- Max Tactics and Anatomy for high damage.
- GM Spirit Speak with some jewels that add skill points to leach back more mana
- Chivalry for some of the utility spells of being able to travel with sacred journey, dispel evil summons, remove curse. I do not have full slayer sets on this character, so will also use EOO depending on situation.

Point of build is to have high mana regen and leach to keep chaining AI as much as possible for high damage per tick. Need atleast 20 Necro to maintain Wraith form, which can be accomplished with JOAT from human. I have separate jewels and book I macro on in order to cast wraith form. Even when not in wraith form, still very effect.

My stealth archer:
Archery, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Resist Spells, Hiding, Stealth

- My particular build has two suits - a 211 Stam suit and a Stealth suit. I only run 40 real Stealth and get to 120 Stealth with items on a second suit that has 182 Stam.

I'd like to think both are a little outside of the standard "ABC" build. Good luck !
 

kaio

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I had a lot of fun with my AMC archer.
120 archery
120 mace
120 resist
100 tact
100 ana
090 heal
100 chiv
I mostly did rikkitor/oaks with this template, fairly cheap template to make except for the 120 resist powerscroll, but u be fine with 100 for pvm, i sometimes swapped chiv for ninja for pvp.
 
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Mac

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Well, maybe I just remember you from the forums years back Lestat, and good morning to the others posting here.

Decided on a Disco Archer. Based on what I've been reading, kinda appears it's a pretty standard sorta build. Thanks for the comments about the builds you use, bunch of interesting stuff out there to try. I'll let yas know how it goes after training a bit.

Haz
 

Mac

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Ya know what, I do have a question for everyone now that I think about it.

Resist or Anatomy?

Presently:
Music
Disco
Tactics
Bushido
Chiv
Archery
Resist or Anatomy

Kinda leaning towards Resist
 

Jepeth

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Ya know what, I do have a question for everyone now that I think about it.

Resist or Anatomy?
Anatomy factors into the damage formula and increases Bushido's evasion ability. From personal experience on my archer resist feels very underpowered in pvm.
 
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Mac

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So, here we are...

Anat 100/120
Archery 115/120
Bush 80/120
Chiv 100/120
Disco 110/120 (One set of jewels for the startup, Disco'ing, and then
Music 110/120 switch to set for fighting, does that sounds right?)
Tactics 105/115

Thats real/cap.

Time to get to work on the gems, My imbuing is 117, but damn if I remember much, lol. I have done some playing, need to figure out a few macros for the Enhanced to remove some key strokes. Playing has just been testing but is fun. Will add to this when my next step is done.

Any suggestions from you good folks?

Haz
 

kaio

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So, here we are...

Anat 100/120
Archery 115/120
Bush 80/120
Chiv 100/120
Disco 110/120 (One set of jewels for the startup, Disco'ing, and then
Music 110/120 switch to set for fighting, does that sounds right?)
Tactics 105/115

Thats real/cap.

Time to get to work on the gems, My imbuing is 117, but damn if I remember much, lol. I have done some playing, need to figure out a few macros for the Enhanced to remove some key strokes. Playing has just been testing but is fun. Will add to this when my next step is done.

Any suggestions from you good folks?

Haz
Interesting choice.
What you should pick is kinda dependent on what you aim at hunting, i kinda see 2 options here, either single target or not.
Personally i find disco most suited for single target, unless you hunt with a group of people like roof or something.
I would roll with something like
120 archery
120 tactics
120 music
120 disco
120 bush
080 chiv / buff this with juwels
060 poisoning (or any other combat skill)
740 skill points.

Reasoning why i would dish ana is to get 300 combat points to reach max mana reduction so i can dish out more special moves...AI AI.
Since you can honor, and use a slayer weapon chiv is not super needed, but nice to have for heals, and u can always stone off poison, and stone on more chiv if u need it for roof/EM events or something else.
chiv at 80-100 still cures/heal pretty decent.
 

Mac

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Thanks Kaio for the heads up for the max mana reduction. Since I've just returned, I have little experience to base some decisions on, so I have a few more questions. Please know I have been looking in multiple locations for answers to these and they have been unclear, or I have just not found them yet.

Is it more important to have the max reduction based on 300 points in skill or the damage bonus supplied by Anat? What I mean is, I'd be using both the specials and damage bonus the way I'm setup now (specials would be tied to mana of course), but once mana is gone I'd still have the damage bonus working....right? If I remove anat and use only the mana reduction from the 300 skill points for more specials, I'm still gonna run out of mana eventually and then have no damage bonus backing up my shots..right? This is where your experience Kaio, and the rest of you, will far outweight mine. Somewhere, at some level, there is a point where the two different scenarios cross paths in damage done, making one better than the other, but I dont have the experience to know where that crossing is, you guys might. I hope what I'm asking is clear.

Another question, this about Real vs Modified skills. I know that, in barding for mastery work, you need Real, not Modified numbers. I think I read, maybe wrong here, that Real numbers are needed for Tactics, but I don't know about the rest of my skill list, meaning Archery, Bush, Chiv and I'll say I go for the Max Reduction so Swords for the third combat skill. Anyone know off the top of their heads?

Thanks as always,
Haz
 

railshot

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My wraith archer:
Archery, Tactics, Anatomy, Chivalry, Resist Spells, Spirit Speak, Focus

- Max Tactics and Anatomy for high damage.
- GM Spirit Speak with some jewels that add skill points to leach back more mana
- Chivalry for some of the utility spells of being able to travel with sacred journey, dispel evil summons, remove curse. I do not have full slayer sets on this character, so will also use EOO depending on situation.

Point of build is to have high mana regen and leach to keep chaining AI as much as possible for high damage per tick. Need atleast 20 Necro to maintain Wraith form, which can be accomplished with JOAT from human. I have separate jewels and book I macro on in order to cast wraith form. Even when not in wraith form, still very effect.

My stealth archer:
Archery, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Resist Spells, Hiding, Stealth

- My particular build has two suits - a 211 Stam suit and a Stealth suit. I only run 40 real Stealth and get to 120 Stealth with items on a second suit that has 182 Stam.

I'd like to think both are a little outside of the standard "ABC" build. Good luck !
What kind of bows do you use? I know on a melee it's pretty much always crafted weapons (slayer, elemental, HLD, depending on scenario), but I do recall seeing archers with legendary bows. I am making my very first archer, so any and all advice is appreciated.
 

kaio

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@Mac As an archer you will get into mana issues, unless you go the wraith route, with max mana reduction cost, you should be able to get more specials in, and hopefully get mana back with hit mana leech.
There was a calculator where you could calculate damage output, sadly i couldn't find it :(
 

Merlin

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What kind of bows do you use? I know on a melee it's pretty much always crafted weapons (slayer, elemental, HLD, depending on scenario), but I do recall seeing archers with legendary bows. I am making my very first archer, so any and all advice is appreciated.
I have full set of crafted elemental bows. Generally with Damage Increase, Swing Speed Increase, Hit Lower Defense, Hit Mana Leach and a 5th mod that I will change up (couple have a different hit leach, couple have a hit spell). No hit areas for this guy because it's generally not what I use him for. Bows aren't too difficult to craft, so I have a bunch from over the years. I do not generally use Legendary bows as most have strange mods.
 

railshot

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I have full set of crafted elemental bows. Generally with Damage Increase, Swing Speed Increase, Hit Lower Defense, Hit Mana Leach and a 5th mod that I will change up (couple have a different hit leach, couple have a hit spell). No hit areas for this guy because it's generally not what I use him for. Bows aren't too difficult to craft, so I have a bunch from over the years. I do not generally use Legendary bows as most have strange mods.
Thank you for the information. And if you wanted to make a hit area bow, would you use a Magic shortbow for that?
Edit: And another question - do you use any bows with overcapped HML (not sure if that's possible in bows)?
 
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Merlin

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Thank you for the information. And if you wanted to make a hit area bow, would you use a Magic shortbow for that?
Edit: And another question - do you use any bows with overcapped HML (not sure if that's possible in bows)?
Neither one of my archers is really used for spawning. While I have both comp bows and mag shortbows with hit area on them, I am not getting much use from them at the moment. The wraith archer does best in low-movement / stationary type of fights. The Stealth archer is more for PVP and keyying certain Peerless where stealth can help.

The only overcap mod I have on any bows are a few where I have 40 SSI. The wraith archer has HML on his bows, but right now, I have so much mana leach and regen in the template that it is almost overkill. I would probably be okay without it having 120 Spirit Speak in the template, in addition to having some points in Focus and high 29 Mana Regen on the suit. You should adjust to whether or not you feel like you're managing your mana well enough to justify having it on your bows.
 

Garm The Green

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My wraith archer:
Archery, Tactics, Anatomy, Chivalry, Resist Spells, Spirit Speak, Focus
@Merlin I'm sorry to ask for more of your time, but your two builds (below) are really helping me to review my current ranged template.

So I'm guessing your Wraith Archer is the below?
120 Archery
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy (10 Talisman?)
120 Chivalry
120 Resist Spells (15 jewels?)
120 Spirit Speak (15 jewels?)
040 Focus


And your ABC Thrower is:
ABC Thrower:
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
105 Anatomy (120 with Bracelet)
100 Chivalry
115 Resist Spells
090 Bushido
070 Healing

As per our convo on a different thread I'd settled on my ABC archer, but found that it doesn't outshine my sampire's single target DPS as it couldn't maintain constant AI... which is surely the raison d'etre for an ABC?
Having read the JOAT Wraith Archer build (great idea) I'm currently I'm dancing somewhere between the two builds. Maybe I'm trying to have it all? I know that less is more but I've not understood the key ingredients.
I've found that lowering bushi to 50 and raising SS to 70 (allowing modest wraith leech and honour) isn't quite enough to chain 100%, maybe...80% as lower bushi means the chain AI costs 5 more mana each.

My theory-crafting suggests that Wraith Archer is the role to play for pure DPS vs bosses (Peerless, champs, captains, exodus) - which I believe is the goal of an Archer in the current meta?

Having reviewed your own efforts to work through template updates I believe that your builds are constructed with purpose and based on experience.
Therefore my questions are:
1) Assuming the aim is pure DPS which build do you find to be more effective and have a more valid role?
NB: If your answer is "different horses for different courses" - then, which do you find more satisfying to play?
2) What would do you make of the below build and what suggestions would you offer in relation to balancing the ~210 points invested into Bushido/SS/Healing?
3) Do you find that Chiv is negatively impacted through the use of Necro abilities on the wraith?

Currently my build is:

Archery120
Tact110 (Work to 120?)
Resist110 (Reduce to 100?)
Chivalry100 (Work to 120?)
Anatomy100
Heal90 (Remove or replace?)
SS70 (Work to 100?)
Bushido50 (Remove?)
Total750
Using HH + Soldier's Medal+30 Skills

Theory crafting:

Hitting with AI for 100 damage with 50% LMC
Assuming 50% HML, weapon leech average = 10 [Average of random amount from 0 to 20 (100 * 0.5 * 0.4)]

Bushi 120, Spirit Speak 0
Doubled AI cost 25
wraith leech 8
weapon leech 10
Total average net Mana per AI -7
Benefits - LS, High Confidence, Honour, less reliant on wraith form/target mana pool, more flexible
Weakness - RNG dependant AI

Bushi 50, Spirit Speak 70
Doubled AI cost 30
wraith leech 14
weapon leech 10
Total average net Mana per AI -6
Benefits - Honour, flexible
Weakness - SS/Confidence/Curse Weap heals unreliable, performs neither role well

Bushi 0, Spirit Speak 120
Doubled AI cost 30
wraith leech 24
weapon leech 10
Total average net Mana per AI +4
Benefits - Long Curse Weap, overleech negates RNG fluctuations
Weakness - No honour bonus, Drains target mana quickly and then cannot sustain AI, niche
 
Last edited:

Merlin

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@Merlin I'm sorry to ask for more of your time, but your two builds (below) are really helping me to review my current ranged template.

So I'm guessing your Wraith Archer is the below?
120 Archery
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy (10 Talisman?)
120 Chivalry
120 Resist Spells (15 jewels?)
120 Spirit Speak (15 jewels?)
040 Focus


And your ABC Thrower is:
ABC Thrower:
120 Throwing
120 Tactics
105 Anatomy (120 with Bracelet)
100 Chivalry
115 Resist Spells
090 Bushido
070 Healing

As per our convo on a different thread I'd settled on my ABC archer, but found that it doesn't outshine my sampire's single target DPS as it couldn't maintain constant AI... which is surely the raison d'etre for an ABC?
Having read the JOAT Wraith Archer build (great idea) I'm currently I'm dancing somewhere between the two builds. Maybe I'm trying to have it all? I know that less is more but I've not understood the key ingredients.
I've found that lowering bushi to 50 and raising SS to 70 (allowing modest wraith leech and honour) isn't quite enough to chain 100%, maybe...80% as lower bushi means the chain AI costs 5 more mana each.

My theory-crafting suggests that Wraith Archer is the role to play for pure DPS vs bosses (Peerless, champs, captains, exodus) - which I believe is the goal of an Archer in the current meta?

Having reviewed your own efforts to work through template updates I believe that your builds are constructed with purpose and based on experience.
Therefore my questions are:
1) Assuming the aim is pure DPS which build do you find to be more effective and have a more valid role?
NB: If your answer is "different horses for different courses" - then, which do you find more satisfying to play?
2) What would do you make of the below build and what suggestions would you offer in relation to balancing the ~210 points invested into Bushido/SS/Healing?
3) Do you find that Chiv is negatively impacted through the use of Necro abilities on the wraith?

Currently my build is:

Archery120
Tact110 (Work to 120?)
Resist110 (Reduce to 100?)
Chivalry100 (Work to 120?)
Anatomy100
Heal90 (Remove or replace?)
SS70 (Work to 100?)
Bushido50 (Remove?)
Total750
Using HH + Soldier's Medal+30 Skills

Theory crafting:

Hitting with AI for 100 damage with 50% LMC
Assuming 50% HML, weapon leech average = 10 [Average of random amount from 0 to 20 (100 * 0.5 * 0.4)]

Bushi 120, Spirit Speak 0
Doubled AI cost 25
wraith leech 8
weapon leech 10
Total average net Mana per AI -7
Benefits - LS, High Confidence, Honour, less reliant on wraith form/target mana pool, more flexible
Weakness - RNG dependant AI

Bushi 50, Spirit Speak 70
Doubled AI cost 30
wraith leech 14
weapon leech 10
Total average net Mana per AI -6
Benefits - Honour, flexible
Weakness - SS/Confidence/Curse Weap heals unreliable, performs neither role well

Bushi 0, Spirit Speak 120
Doubled AI cost 30
wraith leech 24
weapon leech 10
Total average net Mana per AI +4
Benefits - Long Curse Weap, overleech negates RNG fluctuations
Weakness - No honour bonus, Drains target mana quickly and then cannot sustain AI, niche
Sorry for the delay in reply...

Here is my Wraith Archer skill set up:
1645512045139.png

Skills in left column are real, skills to the side are what I am adding from items on my suit and jewels.

For the Wraith Archer build, the character is a human. That way it can stay in Wraith Form without having any Necromancy since it gets 20 passive skill points from JOAT.

The purpose of that build is simple: stay stationary and chain Armor Ignore as much as possible for max damage.

I use potions to get my Strength to the 150 max mark, but keep my Stamina about 212 on the suit without relying on pots. That helps me maintain a bigger mana pool. By having Spirit Speak above GM, it helps to leach back considerably more mana. Also, Spirit Speak acts as a stand alone healing spell, which is really great in a jam.

I have 20+ Mana Regeneration on the suit as well and hit mana leach on all the weapons. I run Bone and Studded for the 55 LMC bonus. At one point, I had healing on this character, but I exchanged it for Focus to give that mana regeneration an even greater boost since I can use Spirit Speak or Close Wounds to heal. I run super slayer bows, but don't have all the matching cameos for this build just yet. That doesn't matter much since what I typically use this guy for doesn't have specific slayers on the boss, so it does well getting the benefit from Chivalry's Enemy of One spell. This build works really great on Exodus or any Peerless content where I am running with a larger group and can stay stationary to hit the main target without having to worry much about spawn or other mobs. It's a great build for DPS and maximizing mana use.

The downside of this build is that it's not very mobile, and if I run out of Strength pots, I have somewhat low hit points. It's use is really spectacular for certain hunts, but it's not a build meant for Felucca or spawning or Shadowguard.

In terms of answering your questions...

1) In comparable scenarios, I would put that Wraith Archer I shared above up against almost any other build in terms of pure damage. But... it also has more content limitations, especially if you're playing content that requires alot of movement. The ABC Thrower that I shared on that other thread we were discussing... that character is a bit more nimble. It can do PVM as well as PVP. It can do champ spawns and hold its own versus raiders. I play both builds somewhat equally... I have lots of different templates so that I can mix it up as I please. So I leave it to your own testing and playstyle to see what fits you best.

2) Again, depending on content, I would suggest something closer to what I shared above. I don't think you need Bushido on the build. I also would question what are you using Healing with bandages for if you can use Spirit Speak, Close Wounds, drink potions and use Hit Life Leach, if needed. Same with Resist Spells... I personally find that 100 is more than suffice in consideration of what I use the build for. Between 100 RS, Remove Curse from Chivalry and Enchanted Apples, I have options to resist most any affect from PVM casters. So right there, that would free up some points for you to play around with. My main suggestion for you would be to put more points into Spirit Speak... the extra mana you leach back goes far. Especially if you're having any mana management issues when chaining AI down to zero mana again and again, this allows you to top back up very quickly.

3) Aside from casting Wraith form, I'm not using other Necro abilities. And because I play Exodus frequently on this build, it provides a really good Karma boost simply on entering the main encounter.

Hope that helps! Keep me posted if any other questions :)
 

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Garm The Green

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I'm going to duplicate y update across both threads!

Thankyou for your super helpful response.

RE: Archer.
I've basically stolen your wraith archer build, but swapped focus for healing to allow easy ressing of team-mates and healing while running.
I plan to use this in exodus and for peerless and rarely, a champ...maybe doom (?)
The healing is probably overkill and I'll likely phase it out.
In the end, I couldn't go gargoyle and didn't see a huge benefit over this slightly more niche build.

RE: Warrior
I'm currently floating between your/LordGods Mace paladin build and utlima2005's various bushido paladins. They all sound great!
Ultima's are closer to my original characters build so I'm trying them first before pivoting to yours - I really like the sound of the macing + masteries, but not the need for an obtainable shield :p
I had a quick blast today and found it somewhat tricky to stay healed in comparison to my sampire, I'm not sure I enjoyed the challenge! However, I think that the macing masteries (esp extra HP) and/or true 4/6 casting would help this enormously by giving more "play". Also, it could be that this suit is fairly ancient, and a new suit would benefit immensely.


Many many thanks for your time and well considered responses.
 

Vico

Visitor
i understand this is older however i hope still relevant. ive been back playing now about a year after many many moons of being away. i was thinking of making a archer and started googling away. (unfortunately mostly older info out here) but just read bushido evade does not help with archery before reading some here. what other reason would it be used for on a archer? (please forgive my lack of knowledge on this)
 

Haraldur Tyrsson

Adventurer
If you have 120 archery, having at least 80 bushido will give you 200 points towards special move mana cost reduction. 200 lowers specials by 5. Does not need to be real skill either.

Confidence is also very handy for a heal on the run.

Having bushido above 50 will allow you to use yumi too.

And of course, honoring monsters can increase damage.
 
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