Just Curious

[Stinky Pete]

In an mmo I played for 6.5 yrs, I went out of my way to help several "noobies". But here is where I am sure I fundamentally differ from most people. I might be considered a bit cynical but it to me an important difference.

Of the things "given", did any of them really cost the giver anything? Was there any actual sacrifice? Did it take them half a day of their busy time they did not have to either coach you or make stuff for you? Did they only have two of an item and gave you one of them they might have used later (sacrifice)? Gearwise I would guess no. It was probably stuff they had laying around or they could get easily. Moneywise, the game is flooded with it. I am not a money chaser in mmo's, but I have more money than I know what to do with at this point. Most of this behavior imo, is generally civil behavoir and not virtuous.

A person who takes time to give good advice because the giver wants the other person to do well or to offer kind words that will encourage someone to continue so they too can experience the same joy they had, those could be considered virtuous. I do not measure virtue by things given. But in time taken. Civil behavior costs nothing to participate in but makes people feel good. Virtuous behavior costs the giver something of themselves - normally sacrifice.

I don't know, I don't value anything in this game other than meaningful interaction between other players and myself. I have no idea what stuff is worth because I don't value or pay for stuff. My point is just that it is really easy to find goodness in this game and a bit harder to find "evil." You can read about my recent experiences with goodness and determine for yourself the value of it here if you are so inclined:

PvP Begging Megathread

So I started doing PvP begging across multiple shards today. I thought I'd make a thread here to thank all the people who are donating to whatever nefarious thing I do with all the gold I collect from doing so. I also started a Stratics guild for people who want to help me. Details on that are...

community.stratics.com

 

[Lady Michelle]

The owners of Ultima online are able to put whatever they want in the game since they own it. Doesn't matter what you or I think about whats in the game, if they choose to add more religous stuff, evil stuff or whatever it's their choice not yours. Seriously you don't like it don't play its as simple as that.

 

[petemage]

UO has since devolved into just another mindless form of online entertainment despite Garriot's orginal intentions.

Garriot's original intentions:

 

[petemage]

Never gets old

 

[Archangel0]

I do have an MA in art history—in renaissance art. There is a full color photo of the painting in Hart’s “Italian Renaistance Art”, which was the standard textbook on the subject in my undergraduate days. So yes I am qualified to recognize this very famous painting and to understand its iconography. I am not religious, but I do appreciate and enjoy religious art. While I find the Madonna with the Long Neck disturbing and even grotesque, that is not my point. I asked why there is a religious painting in this game. I just do not think that religious art has any place in a secular game.

And no I do not support book banning. Even idiots have a right to their opinion. To paraphrase Voltaire: “I disagree with you completely, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.”

Shouldn't you start then by complaining about the ubiquitous ANKH? That's religious immagery if thre ever was one.. now get to work and fine-tune your sense of being offended, you amateur! LOL

 

[Picus of Napa]

The wolves never outnumbered the sheep at any point of UO but the sheep rarely realized they had numbers. Sometimes a Rouge sheep transformed into a wolf and enjoyed the cannibal aspects of that transformation. If 4 sheep stood their ground it was, sometimes, enough to stop the wolf pack but sheep often ran away alone and died a tragic sheeply death.

It's just the way it was.

 

[Lore]

Children are evil sometimes.

There was a great movie about this couple that went on vacation and the local kids terrorized them. Not children of the corn... I'll have to go find it. Was a great horror movie.

Remember those kids tossing bricks off a bridge? Crazy stuff young people do.

 

[Stinky Pete]

The wolves never outnumbered the sheep at any point of UO but the sheep rarely realized they had numbers. Sometimes a Rouge sheep transformed into a wolf and enjoyed the cannibal aspects of that transformation. If 4 sheep stood their ground it was, sometimes, enough to stop the wolf pack but sheep often ran away alone and died a tragic sheeply death.

It's just the way it was.

Exactly, the failure of good over evil only happened because the vast majority of players thought they should be able to play solo without having to be able to defend themselves against other players. To appease this large group of players, everything needed to be dumbed down and made easier.

I remember when I played prior to AOS, it took a guild using coordinated tactics to hunt greater dragons. My guild used to do it quite often. Had a PK or even a small group of PKs tried to attack us, they would have been greatly outnumbered and, had we stood our ground, "good" would have surely triumphed over "evil." Unfortunately, this was prior to Renaissance and we just did it in Trammel because it was easier.

These days, pretty much anything can be fought solo and most players prefer to do things solo, probably because coordinating a hunt is relatively difficult. Two sampires should be able to hold their ground against one person raiding a spawn, but they don't know how to coordinate a defense against another player.

In short, I don't think it was the evil nature of players, but the solo nature of players that caused evil to triumph over good.

 

[Miretar]

BTW—I never s

The cat, may he Rest In Peace, was sassy from time to time. His name was Magnus, and he was my emotional support animal. Magnus was gentle, loving and sweet tempered, and a perfect companion in every way. This past week was the third anniversary of his death and I mourn his passing everyday.

Magnus has this to say:

 

[The Black Smith]

Given that UO is made by Christians for Christians. I don’t get your issue with the painting.

 

[John Knighthawke]

Since this thread has turned into yet another "tram killed UO" debate I'll re-link everyone to this article which conclusively showed that it was the polar opposite.

The Game Archaeologist: The legacy of Ultima Online | Massively Overpowered

If you all mean "killed the game for you" then you should switch to the numerous other games, such as Shadowbane, that rode the Fel model to great success. Oh, wait.....

I have heard no reports of actual offense taken by the presence of Renaissance art which doubtlessly is in the game to the feel of the late Medieval and Renaissance eras, for purposes of atmosphere. This thread strike me as a troll attempt.

It is not arguable, and indeed is likely a troll attempt, to say that UO was made "by Christians for Christians."

 

[Pawain]

Self control............. so many jokes could be made from the last two posts.

 

[Stinky Pete]

Since this thread has turned into yet another "tram killed UO" debate

I'm pretty sure that only you perceived the conversation taking place here as a "Tram killed UO" debate.

The only point I have argued is that there has always been more good players than evil ones despite what Garriot and previous developers have said.

 

[Picus of Napa]

Tram didn't kill the old UO, weak willed people did.

There was a short lived opportunity to be whomever one wished to be up to 5 different times on a shard and more if you played on more than one. You could be a murderer, smith, fletcher, tamer, business owner, priest, savior of lost causes or 100 other professional types but most never ventured much further than slayer of monsters and horder of gold.

UO had little choice but to make a tram or some other type of pvp button only due to other games coming on the market who had the benefit of watching what happened here and they were losing market share. The players had a choice of defending themselves but, not unlike today's society, they preferred to have the government do the dirty work of police man. Sadly, when you default your defense to someone who is going to "save you" they never do. Not unlike most liberal ran city's in the west.