Is ONE Siege Blessed Item enough?

[Victim of Siege]

shouldn't we first reach an agreement on what question the poll should ask?

we know what it is, "should it be increased". after we find out if everyone wants an increase, then we bother with the pancakes moaning bickering posturing and sillyness of figuring out how many.

 

[kelmo]

I do not agree with that. Not that it matters. Many asked for the Siege Bless to be exactly what it is. A replacement mechanism for the personal bless deed. No more no less. If you want insurance ask for it.

 

[Victim of Siege]

That's perfectly fine @kelmo, if he makes the poll, vote no.

 

[Freelsy]

I do not agree with that. Not that it matters. Many asked for the Siege Bless to be exactly what it is. A replacement mechanism for the personal bless deed. No more no less. If you want insurance ask for it.

C'mon man. I just looked up the publish notes. The Siege Bless was introduced in Publish 38 which deployed on December 15, 2005! It's time to grow and evolve Siege.

 

[kelmo]

Freelsy... at this point you could add ****ing training wheels for Siege. I don't care. Just leave that thing from 2005 that we fought for alone.

 

[Eärendil]

@kelmo: What if the question just is:

Do you want Siege Bless for 2 items (within the current mechnics) - yes or no?

No change to the system other than 2 items instead of 1? Would you support that? I know that the Devs tend to mess things up instead of making them better. Thats why I dont feel comfortable about other changes than this one.

 

[Tanager]

Kelmo does not want it touched... period. It seems logical to me to simply expand the existing code to include 2, 3, whatever cap, but ok. So, instead of calling it Siege Bless let us just call it something else. How about... Blessed Item Cap. Bless any non-stackable, non-container (except the exceptions) equipable item that you want, up to a certain limit equiped or in your pack or bank at one time. That includes items that are already blessed, and including the Siege Bless, but excludes things like runebooks and non-mod spellbooks. Keep Siege Bless as a separate mechanic for the sake of nostalgia, and add a whole new mechanic so that Siege can be updated to be more on par with what Ultima Online has evolved into.

I vote for 5 items TOTAL.

 

[Bo Bo]

Ok so the Bo has landed in this thread, it is going to go downhill fast now!
1. what about pets, in bo's eyes pets should use a blessing slot. don't want to bless it, you should suffer a penalty. (risk vs reward) maybe cant res if it dies for 15 minutes.
2. invasion books, lucky necklace should also use a blessing slot or become unblessed.
3. passive reveal should be implemented, it was even stated during last meet and greet devs had no clue it wasn't turned on here.
4. more blessings should be added, great idea!
5. VVV could careless if they are great, if not nbd
6. Would love a second character slot

 

[kelmo]

When we asked for it back then we said one was enough. It was a fair trade Siege Bless for everyone and the removal of all the existing Personal Bless deeds. This was not an easy compromise and it took a lot of work to get this done. The dev team had to put in Siege only time for this to happen. Not an easy get there. If you folks feel blessings and insurance is the way to go for Siege Perilous just ask for that.

 

[Tanager]

One item for a bless was enough. 14 years ago. When Sam Empire was the current expansion and the coolest stuff in game was major Tok artie or a Doom drop and a warrior could PvP naked with resisting spells skill and a SB'd weapon. It was a lot of work to correct the imbalance at that time, and I respect that. But this game has changed ... a lot. I don't like the itemization road we're on, but this is where we are. Not asking for insurance, not asking to keep an uber suit an risk nothing. Allowing Siege Perilous to catch up, just a little bit, with the rest of UO might be helpful in our player retention rate. SO MUCH stuff has been added over the years, but you don't see much of it being worn. The Siege community worked hard to get that Siege Bless, and I think expanding on that hard work would not be an insult to that. Just my opinion though...

Anyway, if there is a poll, I will vote. But for now, I think this is it for me. No disrespect was intended towards anyone.

 

[Stinky Pete]

I don't think more siege blessings are the answer. I would prefer insurance. 100k per item insured. No insurance payout for killing someone. If you want to insure a full suit, go ahead, you'll go broke quickly. But if the stuff is that important to you... It's your loss. If you want to insure an extra item or two, it's much more affordable.

I really don't want to make an account on the official forums just to vote no to this. But I suppose I will if necessary.

 

[Freelsy]

I don't think more siege blessings are the answer. I would prefer insurance. 100k per item insured. No insurance payout for killing someone. If you want to insure a full suit, go ahead, you'll go broke quickly. But if the stuff is that important to you... It's your loss. If you want to insure an extra item or two, it's much more affordable.

I really don't want to make an account on the official forums just to vote no to this. But I suppose I will if necessary.

Insurance would help no one. A new player, considering they did not xshard gold, will be the only ones hurt by this. The vets on this shard easily have 100+ mill in gold alone. 3 siege blessings are free for all to use.

 

[Baby Doll]

 

[GarthGrey]

Can we get someone that's unbiased to make a poll on the official forum? Similar to how Kincaid did it for VvV? Only two options, yes or no. Just a simple poll.

Do it this way, make a poll asking how many people want to make a poll. that will give you the true number of people with an actual vested interest in it, then compare that poll to the actual poll about the subject at hand, and look at the stark difference in the number of votes cast...I'm simply predicting the future, no one wants to see this shard succeed more than me, but it's hard not to be a Debby Doubter, Negative Nancy, all of those feminine names that don't hit home the way Grumpy does.

 

[Scruffy]

I started siege recently haven't been back long but here is what I don't really get. You want 1 more bless item because some have 2 or 3 blessed items got from older times correct? Well if you give them 1 more the same inbalance is there as far as that goes although I do see how it would help.

My question is where do you stop? 6 months someone wants another blessed item then another. Now someone doesn't want to be attacked so they add Tram or whatever ya get the point.

I understand some stuff would be a good change but I see it snowballing as it has on regular shards. Anyway just my 2 cents from a casual.

 

[Freelsy]

No one wants additional Bless options because there are blessed items from past events. That's silly. We want additional blesses because the game mechanics have evolved over time. In its current state, no one uses high end gear because it's too much of a loss. Risk vs reward only goes so far. I've done maybe 120'ish lady Mel's with ZERO crimson drops. That's a lot of time sunk into getting ONE item. That grind also applies to all the other great items like shadow guard drops, tangles, slithers and so on. The risk Far outweighs the reward. I'm not going to keep parroting myself saying the same thing over and over... It's just amazing that an idea to help. Siege and all it's citizens falls on deaf ears because "Trammel that way".

But it's the same people that are for and against any change. Old hats are against change because they've already made theirs. They don't want "their" Siege to change.

 

[Ezekiel Zane]

Siege Bless and other blessed items can easily be totaled and calculated on what you have equipped. It's just a saved variable. If the Siege Bless was increased then it could still count regular blessed items in the total also. So when you attempt to equip more than is allowed you get the message "you cannot equip that" or whatever.

It's not a ton of coding. Every item we equip changes the variables. That's exactly what the status bar shows us.

Siege has resisted change and "Trammelization" pretty well over the years. As already mentioned Siege Bless was introduced in 2005, fourteen years ago. UO has become more and more itemized every year since.

Since I came back and starting playing Siege exclusively, I've seen a lot of comments in General Chat that there's no one to kill. Well, no one goes out enough. New players don't stick around. Many complain about there's not enough players yet refuse to try something new.

Kelmo doesn't want Siege Bless messed with, well then allow insurance of four items then. But it makes no sense to overprice it so much that new players can't even afford it. 3x what prodo shards calculate seems reasonable. Many PKs sell you your **** back anyway, just speed up the process.

 

[GarthGrey]

No one wants additional Bless options because there are blessed items from past events. That's silly. We want additional blesses because the game mechanics have evolved over time. In its current state, no one uses high end gear because it's too much of a loss. Risk vs reward only goes so far. I've done maybe 120'ish lady Mel's with ZERO crimson drops. That's a lot of time sunk into getting ONE item. That grind also applies to all the other great items like shadow guard drops, tangles, slithers and so on. The risk Far outweighs the reward. I'm not going to keep parroting myself saying the same thing over and over... It's just amazing that an idea to help. Siege and all it's citizens falls on deaf ears because "Trammel that way".

But it's the same people that are for and against any change. Old hats are against change because they've already made theirs. They don't want "their" Siege to change.

That's it in a nutshell..it's easy to just say ask for it or vote for it, but we all know the votes will be phoned in, in opposition of anything that will interrupts someone's "personal shard" so why are we even bothering ?

 

[Victim of Siege]

1

That's it in a nutshell..it's easy to just say ask for it or vote for it, but we all know the votes will be phoned in, in opposition of anything that will interrupts someone's "personal shard" so why are we even bothering ?

Cause it's fun to do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result . . .

 

[Baby Doll]

I ya Victim of Siege!

 

[Baby Doll]

Cause sometimes the weirdest and strangest of things happen to us all!

 

[Uvtha]

There is probably a lot to add to this list. I would really liked to see all of this reworked so it will fit the whole "Siege is the hardcore UO shard" idea but with the limited resources the devs have and their lack of doing anything to Siege without having everyone and their mother agree to a certain change all I can do is dream.

Siege could be so much better if the devs recognized that our ruleset and circumstances are at core simply different, and alter things accordingly. Even some small changes with little dev time investment like tweaks to drop rates would have a pretty big impact. They have come out and stated they won't give us unique rules, and I can't for the life of me understand why.

 

[Freelsy]

1K views in three days. There's definitely interest in this topic.

 

[Victim of Siege]

1K views in three days. There's definitely interest in this topic.

It's just to see if me n @kelmo got into a slap fight yet.

 

[Baby Doll]

*BOOM SHAKALAKA*

Nothing but luv,

Baby Doll

 

[Suri]

Ok, I had to stop reading to put my own two cents in, then I'll resume. I'm a vet, not an advantaged one like Tananger, Bo, or Max, but still a vet. I don't want to see any more blessings be enabled for gear. Simply said, granting more blessings increases and advantaged veteran more power than they would have now. Example: I have one blessed item and "veteran X" has 2 modded blessed items and blessing. He advantages me by 2 items. If we now get three items total, I'm at 3 and "veteran X" is now at 5, they still have the advantage plus the likelihood of their blessed items being better (with the possibility of them being an item set or synergy).

I feel that any modded items should have blessings removed, yes the spell books too. Keep the single blessing we have. I'm very very against insurance I did have a thought on Pete's idea, but also an increased cap on items upon death. What about SINGLE item insurance? Insurance a single item at 3x or 6x prodo cost, but payout on death to a killer is 2x. Again I'm still against any kind of insurance, but that is just a thought.

Like Bo, I think tamers have an advantage, a pet is essentially a blessed weapon once it's bonded. Make pets have a special loyalty point system that decreases upon death based on a pets slot requirement. A pet would be allowed 5 death points before be-bonding at which the owner can risk it, or stable it and keep it hidden away for a week to bond again. This loyalty is different than the rating shown in a pets happiness. A pet's loyalty would recover at 1 loyalty point per 12 hrs for pets 2 slots and under, and 24 hrs for 3 slots and above. This would apply to all bonded animals, trained and untrained.

I'm going to read on some more and provide more feedback.

 

[Bruin]

I don't play much at all anymore, so ignore my views if you wish. If you think that adding more bless slots will help the poor players I disagree. Simply because once an item can be blessed, it makes items worth more. Thus, all you've done is instead of making a noob pay 250k for a single item, you're making them pay 10 million for the same item so they can bless it.

Need proof, how much is a cursed orny worth? How much is an orny worth? Both are the exact same item deriving the exact same benefits. If there was NO siege bless item both items would be worth the exact same amount of gold. However, once a siege bless exists, the orny is worth 20 mil and the cursed orny is worth 500k.

Thus, adding more blessed item/slots would simply increase the cost of acquiring a pvp suit, to the detriment of a newb, at the benefit of the newb not loosing their pvp suit. Now, I can't tell you if it's better to pay 50 mil up front to compete or 500k per death to compete for example, but in the end both examples are difficult for a newb to compete.

And generally, with other points made in this thread - I agree there should be only 1 bless item, invasion spellbooks should not exist nor should 'blessed' pets. If you want more than 1 bless item, what's the difference between 2,5, 10 or unlimited like insurance on prodo shards? Look how expensive it is to compete in pvp on prodo shards, that is definitely a barrier to pvp for a newb.

 

[Freelsy]

Again, that just doesn't make sense. A young player, regardless of siege blesses, will always be at a disadvantage to those that have played here for TWO DECADES. Nothing will bridge that gap. More blessings mean those players can farm, trade, or buy if they have the gold, for those crazy good items. As it stands right now... that stuff remains locked down on floors and fills chests because no one is going to waste their time using it if they can lose it due to a lag spike, or random disconnect.

Also, I believe you've wildly exaggerated your prices to try and make your point. Ornament of the magician is a relic of the past. Regular Lesser Artifacts are just as good these days. It's a novelty item now, and those that buy it probably only use it to complete a collection.

More blesses help those from new players to old players. It will reinvigorate trading and hunting.

 

[Eärendil]

Ok, I had to stop reading to put my own two cents in, then I'll resume. I'm a vet, not an advantaged one like Tananger, Bo, or Max, but still a vet. I don't want to see any more blessings be enabled for gear. Simply said, granting more blessings increases and advantaged veteran more power than they would have now. Example: I have one blessed item and "veteran X" has 2 modded blessed items and blessing. He advantages me by 2 items. If we now get three items total, I'm at 3 and "veteran X" is now at 5, they still have the advantage plus the likelihood of their blessed items being better (with the possibility of them being an item set or synergy).

I feel that any modded items should have blessings removed, yes the spell books too. Keep the single blessing we have. I'm very very against insurance I did have a thought on Pete's idea, but also an increased cap on items upon death. What about SINGLE item insurance? Insurance a single item at 3x or 6x prodo cost, but payout on death to a killer is 2x. Again I'm still against any kind of insurance, but that is just a thought.

Like Bo, I think tamers have an advantage, a pet is essentially a blessed weapon once it's bonded. Make pets have a special loyalty point system that decreases upon death based on a pets slot requirement. A pet would be allowed 5 death points before be-bonding at which the owner can risk it, or stable it and keep it hidden away for a week to bond again. This loyalty is different than the rating shown in a pets happiness. A pet's loyalty would recover at 1 loyalty point per 12 hrs for pets 2 slots and under, and 24 hrs for 3 slots and above. This would apply to all bonded animals, trained and untrained.

I'm going to read on some more and provide more feedback.

Very bad ideas, all of them. With those ideas, you will lose half of the playerbase, not win any new players. Especially, the taming suggestions. Horrible!

 

[Tanager]

For the record, I am advocating additional blessings/insurance ONLY IF there is a total cap of such things, from ALL sources. This means Siege Bless 5 items, or Siege Bless 3 items and have 2 intrinsically-blessed items, etc. Total.

This topic for me is not about making it easier for a new player - I do not want to make Siege easier. However, right now, it is not POSSIBLE for new players to ever catch up. A few, sure. But not all - there simply are not enough items in circulation. This is a discouraging inequality that CAN be fixed without the Devs taking back the things players worked hard to get (blessed gear). This topic, for me, is also about getting people out of their houses and away from other MMOs to do the game content by allowing more things to be (realistically) worn and therefor worth doing.

And yes... this has been discussed before. However, there are some new names and so my participation is mostly for their benefit.

 

[Suri]

Again, that just doesn't make sense. A young player, regardless of siege blesses, will always be at a disadvantage to those that have played here for TWO DECADES. Nothing will bridge that gap. More blessings mean those players can farm, trade, or buy if they have the gold, for those crazy good items. As it stands right now... that stuff remains locked down on floors and fills chests because no one is going to waste their time using it if they can lose it due to a lag spike, or random disconnect.

Also, I believe you've wildly exaggerated your prices to try and make your point. Ornament of the magician is a relic of the past. Regular Lesser Artifacts are just as good these days. It's a novelty item now, and those that buy it probably only use it to complete a collection.

More blesses help those from new players to old players. It will reinvigorate trading and hunting.

It's a double edge sword, the newer players aren't going to be the only ones benefiting from the increased blessed items. The expendability of items is what keeps their prices lower on Siege. Yes I agree the last post above yours exaggerated the price

Very bad ideas, all of them. With those ideas, you will lose half of the playerbase, not win any new players. Especially, the taming suggestions. Horrible!

Way to show an open mind. No actual solutions provided by you. You just ride the curtails of others in favor of blessings without providing some kind of idea of your own. *slow claps*

You could maybe suggest some sort of altered idea of mine if you want to shoot it down instead of kicking and screaming no like a child that doesn't want to eat their vegetables.

 

[Eärendil]

It's a double edge sword, the newer players aren't going to be the only ones benefiting from the increased blessed items. The expendability of items is what keeps their prices lower on Siege. Yes I agree the last post above yours exaggerated the price

Way to show an open mind. No actual solutions provided by you. You just ride the curtails of others in favor of blessings without providing some kind of idea of your own. *slow claps*

You could maybe suggest some sort of altered idea of mine if you want to shoot it down instead of kicking and screaming no like a child that doesn't want to eat their vegetables.

Vegetables. Very intelligent remark. I dont have to make proposals if I think, things are fine, do I? And I have every right to shoot down stupid ideas. You play a thief, you proposals might cater your playstyle, but does not serve community. I would say most players on Siege have a tamer, ask them if they think that your ideas are good. No way.They are just ridiculous.

So, here is my proposal: Leave things the way they are, they are just fine.

 

[TheDrAJ]

Over the years I have watched changes to Siege to increase the player base. I am not sure that any of these changes helped much.

In terms of currently blessed items, I see no value in eliminating these (mainly spell books i guess).
I would guess Bo and many others have more blessed spellbooks than could be used by all the new players for the next several years.

Changing pets and unblessing seem to benefit only part of the player base. Adding VvV arties again only benefits part of the player base.

I still think the best solution is to leave things the way they are, but I could live with insurance (at a very very high cost), I could live with increased number of Siege blessed items. etc but i doubt it will change the number of new players.

 

[Eärendil]

You know, what you are talking about, Sir AJ!



So far, most suggestions are just good for thieves and PKs. And many people with different opinions tend not to post here because of obvious reasons...

 

[Max Blackoak]

So far, most suggestions are just good for thieves and PKs. And many people with different opinions tend not to post here because of obvious reasons...

well the way things are currently only caters to trammies like yourself... see what I did there?
About the "many people with different opinions" who don't post here: you know who else always claims to be speaking for the silent majority, right? *laughs hard*

 

[Lord Frodo]

well the way things are currently only caters to trammies like yourself... see what I did there?
About the "many people with different opinions" who don't post here: you know who else always claims to be speaking for the silent majority, right? *laughs hard*

WOW SP has a Tram now, damn when did this happen or did I just hear one of the stupidest statements in all of UO. Trammies in SP, priceless.

 

[Max Blackoak]

go back and read his post, then read my reply again and you'll see what this is all about