Is anyone else sick....

[Saint of Killers]

I'll start off with I Love Mysticism.

Spell plague: eh...3 mages running up to you where one has spell plague precasted and the other 2 an explosion and then spamming magic arrow/nether bolt for an insta-death is pretty lame. I think on paper, it starting out with the smallest damage first and then amping up is fine with me. Anyone that prematurely apples will get busted with the last explosion. You may even get more kills because people won't be as sure about their threshold before they run.

*Apparently there's a trick (I've been told) where people are using protection and then using another spell to allow them to still cast at 2/6. I don't know the trick, but do notice people stacking spell plagues on me while I'm spamming disrupt spells to no avail.*

Sleep: It's not doing resist checks currently (they say) so they're just fixing it. It'll still work just fine against all those no resist dexxers.

Dexxers get nerfed plenty over the years. Just look at the JOAT mana changes recently if you don't think so. That really messed up quite a few templates that were struggling for mana to begin with.

Needing a melee weapon skill + 120 stealth + gm hiding for 40 point deathstrikes nerfed archers hard core a few years ago. Not to mention no more instant animal form.

Mystics will still be strong anyway. It's not like it'll just be a complimentary skill now. It just won't be spell plague + 2 or 3 precasting mage insta-kills anymore.

 

[Viper09]

""Game Experience May Change During Online Play." Remember this? It goes along with UO and every other online game.

 

[Stupid Miner]

The OP stated greater dragons not "normal" dragons ... you can take one solo? I would like to see that please. What shard can I visit and learn on ... I really would like to nail a GD solo.

I can take a GD solo, they're not that hard as long as you use your head.

... and Player Tameables are weaker.

Really, if you get the timing right, they're dead before Divine Fury wears off, and that's for the untamed ones.

 

[o2bavr6]

... and Player Tameables are weaker.

Really, if you get the timing right, they're dead before Divine Fury wears off, and that's for the untamed ones.

Is it just me or are people missing the real issue with pets in PvP.

Yes its not to hard to kill a GD alone if your are prepared, but what about the pets owner who is also tanking on you at the same time with as an example a bow?

So when a mage is being attacked by a GD after the tamer dismounts him, he can put a slayer spell book in his hand to kill the GD at a decent rate, but now the archer tamer will hit him almost every time since the mage no longer has a weapon in his hand fot he dci/parry. Let alone the fact that the GD is still dumping on him.

Yes you can still possibly get away, like paralyzing the GD and running to invis till you remount and then come back to the fight to try to kill the tamer first, but usually a tamer does not fight alone, and when i say that i mean another player is with them, helping them as well.

 

[Llewen]

... and Player Tameables are weaker.

Really, if you get the timing right, they're dead before Divine Fury wears off, and that's for the untamed ones.

Is it just me or are people missing the real issue with pets in PvP.

Yes you can still possibly get away, like paralyzing the GD and running to invis till you remount and then come back to the fight to try to kill the tamer first, but usually a tamer does not fight alone, and when i say that i mean another player is with them, helping them as well.

So what you are saying is, you think tamers are op in pvp because you can't kill them easily when you are outnumbered, but one on one you have no problems? Typical tamer hater logic.

I see very few, if any tamers with greater dragons that are successful in anything but very specific contexts in pvp, and it is about to become a lot worse for tamers in pvp now that bards are going to be more common.

The only tamers I see in pvp that are successful are tamers that aren't tamers first. I see successful tamers where the pet is only there to supply supplemental damage and a durable mount, but I very rarely see tamers that are tamers first, where the pet provides the primary damage output, that are successful - extremely rarely.

The only shards where tamers really are a problem are Siege and Mugen, and that is because a bonded pet is essentially a free blessed weapon. If the devs would make it so that a bonded pet on Siege counts as your Siege blessed item, that would be a good place to start.

But the typical tamer hater won't be happy until there are no pets in pvp, and even better if there are no pets in the UO whatsoever. And I for one, if either of those things happen, will be cancelling my accounts and moving on.

 

[o2bavr6]

So what you are saying is, you think tamers are op in pvp because you can't kill them easily when you are outnumbered, but one on one you have no problems? Typical tamer hater logic.

I see very few, if any tamers with greater dragons that are successful in anything but very specific contexts in pvp, and it is about to become a lot worse for tamers in pvp now that bards are going to be more common.

The only tamers I see in pvp that are successful are tamers that aren't tamers first. I see successful tamers where the pet is only there to supply supplemental damage and a durable mount, but I very rarely see tamers that are tamers first, where the pet provides the primary damage output, that are successful - extremely rarely.

The only shards where tamers really are a problem are Siege and Mugen, and that is because a bonded pet is essentially a free blessed weapon. If the devs would make it so that a bonded pet on Siege counts as your Siege blessed item, that would be a good place to start.

But the typical tamer hater won't be happy until there are no pets in pvp, and even better if there are no pets in the UO whatsoever. And I for one, if either of those things happen, will be canceling my accounts and moving on.

Actually for me it comes down to balance. Not just with tamers but with every template.

You are correct that you do not see too many people PvP with GD's but that does not mean they are not overpowered in the damage that they can dole out per hit.

Maybe my view is skewed but I think every template should be able to do an equal amount of damage with one "hit" or "spell". but it isn't this way.

I also personally think there is no place for tamer or disco'ers in pvp but in the end that's my opinion and it doesn't matter.

It sure seems that the game favors the dexers templates more than anything, at least in regards to PvP. I guess this is because it is easier to play a dexer as a new player and be competitive, but this is at the cost of the mage.

Yes some necro mages can kill most dexers who aren't very good at PvP, but in the end the best equipped and skilled PvP dexers will kill just about any vet mage in a duel almost every time.

Dexers have tons of weapon selections at their disposal compared to mages. The dexer weapons can be a huge impact in a duel where mages items do not have the same impact.

Now take this uber dexer and then give him a hiyru and he becomes even more of a foe. dont forget that all the dexer has to do when his opponent is dismounted with the hiyru on him is chase him and hit him while running.

this same scenario with a mage is a bit different because the mage has to stop to cast spells. Meaning if mage uses a hiyru and dismounts his dexer opponent the mage still has to stop to cast spells which give the dexer more of a chance to get away.

A perfect example of dexers having an advantage over the mage templates is transferred to the TC1 shard. How so you say? well you can make amazing dexer weapons on TC1 but to make mage weapons you have to go hunt for the ingredients, they dont come in the bank. So to make a spell channel, or mage weapon you are forced to go to the dungeons. also good luck imbuing a spell channel no pen weapon.

So even on TC1 mages are at a disadvantage. Also mage fighting is 100% about timing where this is not the case with dexer templates.

so this brings me back to over all balance in PvP, pets or no pets. I'm not sure I have the answer but I think a huge improvement would be to leave the system as it is today with one or two changes. First,a llow mages to wear 4/6 casting jewelry and then put the protection spell on at which point it would drop your casting to 2/6 not 0/6. This would make it easier for new people who want to play mages as well as people who dont cheat or use scripts... and it would balance out the damage done by dexers allowing mages to at least heal though some of it a bit easier even if they cant do the same amount of damage per second a dexer can.

edit: i forgot to add the second possible change and that would be magic resist and trapped boxes. every PvP temp should have to have magic resist and trapped boxes should not release paralysis any type either from a spell or from a weapon. if you have resist the para/stun/nervestriek doesn't work. if you dont have resist then you stuck for 3 seconds or whatever time it is.

 

[Always a Ghost]

Face the fact Hypnotic, you just suck.... god you were so bad they chased you off atlantic onto great lakes where you were in fact worse. And now low and behold your crying about them changing templates...... this coming from the guy that runs with a dread. Ohh on the matter of dexxors I have faced your archer many times so go and complain about someone playing a dexxor more will ya. Now please go and cry elsewhere

 

[Llewen]

Maybe my view is skewed but I think every template should be able to do an equal amount of damage with one "hit" or "spell". but it isn't this way.

I know we've butted heads more than once over various things, but I appreciated the tone and intelligence of this post, so kudos. I won't respond to most of it right now because I'd have to think about it first and I've got a mild case of the flu and I don't feel much like thinking right now.

I will respond to the quoted statement though. What you seem to be expressing is the fundamental conflict between the fps gamer mindset, and the grognard mindset (for lack of a better word). In other words between those who want a simple game experience where all that matters is reflexes and button mashing "skill", and those of us who want a more complex game experience, with what we see as game play depth.

It's a conflict I've come across many times. I love the fact that there is room for all kinds of templates and playstyles in UO. I don't want every character to be a carbon copy of every other character. I want characters that are unique, with unique abilities, where if you are really smart and creative you might just find something that gives a character a true specialization.

I appreciate the need for balance. And I realize that the more complex a game is, the harder it is to achieve balance, but that difficulty is a price I am more than willing to pay to play a game that is, to me, much more interesting.

I don't mind that my character has problems with certain templates in pvp, it just motivates me to find some way to become either better at playing my character, or tweaking my template to see if I can overcome that imbalance. When a game has a certain level of complexity, that kind of adjustment is possible.

I don't even mind if it takes a long time for me to figure out how to play against a particular character or template, or even if I never succeed at all. It gives my game play direction. It gives me something to reach for. As long as I am not being beaten by a player's use of cheats, I don't have a problem with being beaten by someone is better at the game than I am, or who happens to have found the right "rock" to counter my "scissors".

Obviously if there are serious imbalances, then I would hope the devs would see them and address them, but I don't really see those in UO in pvp. There may be imbalances, but they aren't huge glaring issues. I see all kinds of players being successful with all kinds of templates, and I see all kinds of players sucking with all kinds of templates. But the fact that the complexity of the game allows for all those different templates and playstyles makes me happy.

I would never want to see that lost.

 

[ingsmsico]

I don't mind that my character has problems with certain templates in pvp, it just motivates me to find some way to become either better at playing my character, or tweaking my template to see if I can overcome that imbalance. When a game has a certain level of complexity, that kind of adjustment is possible.

the problem arises when there is a template that has no significant weaknesses or its weaknesses are easily overcome by overpowered offensive ability.

 

[Cetric]

I have been using mysticism since beta...it's the first time a mage has had a level playing field since they took away the ability to use specs without tactics.

apple timer? we do have thieves in the game to steal...and a player can be taken out of stone form and protection with a very short and very effective spell.

He is talking about how cleansing winds does too much, nd you go and mention how mystic evens the playing field and how to get someone out of pro/stone form.

i agree on the even playing field, i like it. But any non mystic can't just purge people, so here we go again in uo, everyone is running mystic.


I also agree with the other guy to an extent, i don't think cleansing winds should heal+cure+remove curses, maybe just heal and remove curse.

 

[I Am Hypnotic]

Face the fact Hypnotic, you just suck.... god you were so bad they chased you off atlantic onto great lakes where you were in fact worse. And now low and behold your crying about them changing templates...... this coming from the guy that runs with a dread. Ohh on the matter of dexxors I have faced your archer many times so go and complain about someone playing a dexxor more will ya. Now please go and cry elsewhere

This thread is hilarious in so many ways.

I got ran off Atlantic? I still play Atlantic, we got sick of Atl tho because HOT just completely stopped doing anything and 82 completely quit UO. Atl was REAL boring and GL was very active.

I run with a dread? I've played my dread mare mage maybe 3 times. The character didn't even have a dread bonded til less then a week ago. So again, you are full of it.

You fought my archer? I played an alchy archer for what... a month?

I guarantee you will not say who you are cuz you are some unknown random trash on Atl.

 

[o2bavr6]

I know we've butted heads more than once over various things, but I appreciated the tone and intelligence of this post, so kudos. I won't respond to most of it right now because I'd have to think about it first and I've got a mild case of the flu and I don't feel much like thinking right now.

I will respond to the quoted statement though. What you seem to be expressing is the fundamental conflict between the fps gamer mindset, and the grognard mindset (for lack of a better word). In other words between those who want a simple game experience where all that matters is reflexes and button mashing "skill", and those of us who want a more complex game experience, with what we see as game play depth.

It's a conflict I've come across many times. I love the fact that there is room for all kinds of templates and playstyles in UO. I don't want every character to be a carbon copy of every other character. I want characters that are unique, with unique abilities, where if you are really smart and creative you might just find something that gives a character a true specialization.

I appreciate the need for balance. And I realize that the more complex a game is, the harder it is to achieve balance, but that difficulty is a price I am more than willing to pay to play a game that is, to me, much more interesting.

I don't mind that my character has problems with certain templates in pvp, it just motivates me to find some way to become either better at playing my character, or tweaking my template to see if I can overcome that imbalance. When a game has a certain level of complexity, that kind of adjustment is possible.

I don't even mind if it takes a long time for me to figure out how to play against a particular character or template, or even if I never succeed at all. It gives my game play direction. It gives me something to reach for. As long as I am not being beaten by a player's use of cheats, I don't have a problem with being beaten by someone is better at the game than I am, or who happens to have found the right "rock" to counter my "scissors".

Obviously if there are serious imbalances, then I would hope the devs would see them and address them, but I don't really see those in UO in pvp. There may be imbalances, but they aren't huge glaring issues. I see all kinds of players being successful with all kinds of templates, and I see all kinds of players sucking with all kinds of templates. But the fact that the complexity of the game allows for all those different templates and playstyles makes me happy.

I would never want to see that lost.

I hear where you are coming from and in concept agree, but there are also times where it seems counter productive to make too drastic a change in the game. Yes it is important to keep the game fresh but forcing people who have spent long periods of time and money on a template to have that thrown away can be frustrating especially when it happens all of the time.

I am going to make a prediction here:

This new bard spell will destroy Fel and PvP as we know it today. Most of the hard core mage pvpers and old Vets will quit playing. They do have the ability to play other characters but play mages because of how difficult it is, and that historically PvPing on a mage is the most challenging and requires the most skill to play. There is this pseudo prestige in the PvP community amongst mages which has now been destroyed by a single spell. Yes some will just make or break out their bards, but they are mages at heart and will just leave.. like me.

Also I tested the Despair spell on my mage temp and it isn't any where near as effective as on a dexer, in fact its almost pointless to use it on a mage when fighting dexrs at least. Most mages like to fight other mages for the timing and skill required so they normally wouldn't use that spell.

Dexers on the other hand are getting a huge erection now since they can pretty much kill any mage any time all the time... did i say all the time? I mean all the time!!! The few times that the mage gets an advantage in a fight against the dexer, the dexer will jsut scamper off and come back till he gets the spell off.

The little bit of balance in PvP, and i mean little bit, is now destroyed.

 

[Llewen]

The little bit of balance in PvP, and i mean little bit, is now destroyed.

Well, I think we need to take a breath or two before throwing in the towel, and give the new changes a chance, and give the devs a chance to work out any issues with regard to balance. How many people are going to want to play a bard in pvp? I don't think the picture is going to be as grim as the one you are painting.

 

[o2bavr6]

Well, I think we need to take a breath or two before throwing in the towel, and give the new changes a chance, and give the devs a chance to work out any issues with regard to balance. How many people are going to want to play a bard in pvp? I don't think the picture is going to be as grim as the one you are painting.

Well they had their chance on TC1 and were told about it and Logrus even tested in on his Dexer saying how he killed lotsa people.

Basically on TC1 all the newbie dexers are using it and all the mages have pretty much left the shard.

Trust me when I say it will destroy PvP unless they fix it. This should have never gone live the way it was or it should have had a better way to counter it as a mage.

Also at the rate the Devs work it will be 6 months before they address it, if we are lucky.

I don't mean to be negative, but I do know how to PvP (I may not be the best but I know PvP and tactics), its all I do and in all my 13 years I have never ever died to one template so much that only wins due to ONE SPELL, so many times. You can give a decent fight but inevitably the Dexer get the spell off on you and you die.

The spell interrupts all your attempts to heal though it because it hits faster than you can cast greater heal. then they just nervestrike you so you cant heal again, and by the time you use a trapped box you are red lined and then die. Trust me on this I died 60 times to this in the last 4 days.

 

[icm420]

I just want to say that if an archer can have enough mana to armor ignore 6-7 times in a row something there is not right, and should be nerfed..spell plauge is strong but it is a very very slow casting spell. I think its ok how it is... if they nerf it again i hope to see the casting time come up... Someone c ommented on casting focus as well, and that is a huge flaw. Casting focus should be removed i think, unless they add a very visable indicator of when it goes off. Scribe now has a penatly as far as im concerned, that casting focus screws my timing up when it hits, and typically ends in me missing my heal. Worst thing ever to tack onto scribe. The idea is cool, but it should have no effect on casting. Your casting magic arrow, fireball, harm, harm, lightning, oh wait casting focus went off....so the lightning bolt is missed and my next spell is overcasted... stupid stupid stupid. And for the record, protector of the battle mage tunic is horrible... 10 lrc tunic with no dci... pfft.