In with cursed arties/Out with Faction items?

[Draxous]

BR is right about one thing, SP is all about personal agenda.

It appears he is right and your poll kinda proves it. Of course most players will vote for lots of cursed artifacts and even factioners support it because there is no tradeoff. The difference between your poll and mine is that you appear to be furthering your own agenda to keep faction items, otherwise there was no need for a second poll on the same topic.

And before you say I'm doing the same, think again. I use them occasionally and a large number of my guildmembers use them, yet I'm here fighting for a more balanced playing field. A few of them are probably not very happy about it, but I can live with that.

We're pushing an agenda to keep faction items? ROFL. When did the issue ever come into contention? You don't have the support from the community to remove the items. You never had the support from the community. You will not ever get the support. The only agenda people are pushing is to address loot drops for non-faction items. You're the only one talking about factions!

The issue at hand is whether or not you want to make PvM on Siege more rewarding than the rest of the production shards because on Siege you risk more therefore you should reap more rewards.

This is for everyone. This is not about factions. This is not about you and your stipulations. It's a simple yes or no and there will be players who say no which is cool... but there's no point in entertaining your faction discussion because it's moot. You have no where near the support needed to even discuss the issue.


To Everyone: I suggest from this point forward, every reply about factions should read: Faction items are here to stay.

 

[Draxous]

As much as you want to admit it or not, factions have always had the ability to keep and retain the best gear for themselves, and it IS this ability that has destroyed pvp for the masses and restricted it to you 'pvp elitists'.

Ding Ding Ding.

Someone understands the hero/evil system... but complete the thought man. If the supply of non-faction items were coming into the population at a decent rate... taking the the items out of the supply pool would be a good thing because it would ensure these items retain value.

Bruin... I want to say one thing to you though. You're really falling victim to the same witch hunt Kat and Freja promote.

Faction items haven't done anything to the PvP or population. The lack of a supply of decent gear to non-factioners has been the biggest issue. Especially when factioners dye items (and they always dyed them since siege was born) and took the items out of the supply pool for non-factioners. Not only do non-factioners on Siege fight at a disadvantage, but even more so than on any other shard because they can't keep running around in decent gear. They can't even learn how to get better properly. The situation encourages people to avoid pvp (and death) instead of going out and fighting for fun. If people had access to a supply of decent non-faction gear, the divide between the two groups would be minimal. And I bet people would be out farming, pks would be out after those and people would be just out and about having fun instead of sitting in a freaking private house waiting for friends to get online.

Faction items are not much more powerful than their counter parts. I proved it with my server war suits being just as good as my faction ones. If the items were an issue than they'd be an issue on prodo shards too... and it's not. The difference between prodo shards and Siege is that players can go out in decent gear (that's insured) and have fun over and over. Most players on Siege are stuck with crappy gear... on the off chance they get a decent set, they lose it quickly and back to crap again. That's not fun. That's the whole emotion behind the faction buy back threads... and why so many can't stand it.

Like you said before... we're not going back to the days of GM gear and vanq katanas. I dunno why people hold on to that thought... but it's just not going to happen.

If anything... Siege is only going to get more of the stuff that prodo shards will get. We're either going to be prepared for it or we're going to be stuck in the same situation we're currently in. The same situation we've been in since 2004. People need to wake up.

Keep it simple. Stick to one thing. After the discussions this week... it's pretty obvious the thing we've picked is boosting monster loot.

Now our job is to talk to as many Siegers as possible and get them to vocally support this.

There will be a few who try and derail this because of their personal wants. Do not let them distract you.

 

[Kael]

Imbuing has made it possible for people to run very very nice suits

It also has made it so people need to farm in order to obtain the ingrediants/supplies needed to high end imbue

Perhaps why people complain about factions is that there really is no point anymore to play factions other than to have account bound faction artifacts.

Fix factions so there actually is a point to controlling towns. Really other than Phantroneous I havent seen anyone actually steal and defend the sigils since Calibretto and myself a few months ago.

 

[Timothy_SP]

Also, someone mentioned something about 7th age items gone? They're not going, just lost the bless tag. BIG difference there.

That would have been me. First I was just pointing out that things aren't set it stone. Just because Faction Arty's are here, doesn't mean they must remain here.

And I wasn't referring to the Blessed status as much of the disadvantage it put others at.

To me it seems so much time and effort was put into removing blessed items and giving one bless to everyone that many people are thinking "here we go again." It put a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths, just like this topic is now.

 

[Vaelix]

Probably the same reason the people who voted "No" don't even play SP...Diablo, Draxous, Freelsy, Unforsaken, you...not unless you count logging in once every two weeks playing sp...

Kinda ironic huh?

What is even more puzzling to me is if you don't play SP why in the hell do you even post on the sp forums or even vote on anything to do with sp if all your gonna do is play your prodo shard come on these boards and cry and vote about something that has nothing to do with you anymore since you left sp, be it for another game or another server...

Ya, truly ironic...

I've been working Skills on Both of my Red Pvpers this whole time sweetie..

I'll start playing when people realize that Faction Arties can be replaced and have the capacity to allow Normal players to PvP all day long.

And Bruin.. Speedy is the only one that Really pvps in that list.. Real Pvpers understand what i just said.

 

[Vaelix]

I support Increased Monster Loot, Higher Intensity on Loot, Droppable Cursed Doom ML SA and ToT Arties.

As well as, Droppable Alacrity Scrolls and Higher Percentage on Transcendence scrolls.

 

[Chardonnay]

I've been working Skills on Both of my Red Pvpers this whole time sweetie..

I'll start playing when people realize that Faction Arties can be replaced and have the capacity to allow Normal players to PvP all day long.

And Bruin.. Speedy is the only one that Really pvps in that list.. Real Pvpers understand what i just said.

I'm sure...

That or you'll just circle jerk your buddies on atlantic and still continue to cry on the SP forums...

 

[Draxous]

Imbuing has made it possible for people to run very very nice suits

It also has made it so people need to farm in order to obtain the ingrediants/supplies needed to high end imbue

Perhaps why people complain about factions is that there really is no point anymore to play factions other than to have account bound faction artifacts.

Fix factions so there actually is a point to controlling towns. Really other than Phantroneous I havent seen anyone actually steal and defend the sigils since Calibretto and myself a few months ago.

IMO - Allow us to control guardzones like in the event...

but then give those cities a reason to fight over them. Burn down luna, umbra, makoto too.. I say, lol.

I also like the idea of monsters dropping 5x's the silver they do now. Risk vs Reward.

 

[Draxous]

Also, someone mentioned something about 7th age items gone? They're not going, just lost the bless tag. BIG difference there.

That would have been me. First I was just pointing out that things aren't set it stone. Just because Faction Arty's are here, doesn't mean they must remain here.

And I wasn't referring to the Blessed status as much of the disadvantage it put others at.

To me it seems so much time and effort was put into removing blessed items and giving one bless to everyone that many people are thinking "here we go again." It put a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths, just like this topic is now.

Good post.

The problem is that players enjoy this stuff and everyone has access to it if they choose.

1. You could not get another PBD.

2. You could not get another [blessed] sammy helm/ember leggings.

That's a problem and they had to wait to address it because of the people who PAID for those items. Screwing them was simply out of the question... so rock meet hard place.

I don't understand how some people just don't get it.

The devs have come to us about cool stuff like a 2nd character slot... and we, screwed it up. Now we see another poll about it a year later? lol.

Blame our damn selves people.

We should get rid of faction items because a certain group doesn't want to play with the stuff when they don't even HAVE to? And we're suggesting making it better for those who don't, but it's only ok if we screw somebody?!?

It's not the same.

And this discussion is freaking ridiculous.

 

[Black magick]

AndAndAnd - doesn't pvp
Bruin - crys about suits, not realizing you can make ones just as good.
Chardonnay - If "used to pvp" matters lets get some REV to vote.
FrejaSP - Seen Freja once in over 2 years, that was her farming.
insanepete - can't remember who this is now. agreed
Kat - pks/plays with a tamer
Krystal - pks
Lorddog - doesn't pvp
Max Blackoak - used to pvp (see description for chardonnay and Bruin)
nightstalker22 - pks
Sir Morder - dies or ganks.
Speedy Orkit -pvps (stated he wants faction arties)
Syrus of Gahd - no idea who this is... agreed
Timothy_SP - doesn't pvp (maybe pks?)
Troop - see Bruin discription.


So of the 15 people who you say voted yes and don't pvp:
1 pvps
3 pk
6 make excuses and/or are has beens/never weres
3 don't pvp to any extent at all.
2 are unknowns

fix't

 

[Chardonnay]

Good post.

The problem is that players enjoy this stuff and everyone has access to it if they choose.

1. You could not get another PBD.

2. You could not get another [blessed] sammy helm/ember leggings.

That's a problem and they had to wait to address it because of the people who PAID for those items. Screwing them was simply out of the question... so rock meet hard place.

I don't understand how some people just don't get it.

The devs have come to us about cool stuff like a 2nd character slot... and we, screwed it up. Now we see another poll about it a year later? lol.

Blame our damn selves people.

We should get rid of faction items because a certain group doesn't want to play with the stuff when they don't even HAVE to? And we're suggesting making it better for those who don't, but it's only ok if we screw somebody?!?

It's not the same.

And this discussion is freaking ridiculous.

The rest of the people that didn't like faction arties probably quit honestly...

 

[FrejaSP]

Just a random note here.. Heres the people voting Yes and No..


Yes

AndAndAnd, Bruin, Chardonnay, FrejaSP, insanepete, Kat, Krystal, Lorddog, Max Blackoak, nightstalker22, Sir Morder, Speedy Orkit, Syrus of Gahd, Timothy_SP, Troop

( 1 PvPer.. Speedy, All the rest of the people that are on this list Hardly or Never pvp. )

You so wrong, most of them did PvP before this factions madness. There is a few I'm not sure about, but the one in bold did, maybe they all did.

No

Black magick, CroakerTnT, Davy, Diablo FTW, Draxous, Freelsy, Mook Chessy, Scuzzlebutt, Vaelix

(All PvPers)

I really don't see how this group is different than the other except, when imbuing started to make their enemies stronger, they lost the joy and decided to try out normal shards to find some easy targets.

I see that as a good sign, the shard start to heal up. We may lose a few win on any cost players but who care, they don't want to share the fun anyway.

 

[Draxous]

I really don't see how this group is different than the other except, when imbuing started to make their enemies stronger, they lost the joy and decided to try out normal shards to find some easy targets.

What enemies on Siege!?!?!? Have you not read the posts of people like forsaken being on every night of the week and nobody's freaking showing or online or even willing to PvP if they are... so he just sits there bored? Kage? Tibs? Any of them?

This is a shard of stealthers and wussies when it comes to PvP. People aren't doing factions because they are buttsore over the items. People aren't PvPing regularly because the suits aren't reasonably replaceable. I haven't had a real enemy to fight since EVO vs OTF.

WAKE UP

I'm hinging my bets on that if the Devs give the common people on this shard the ability to have fun at a STEADY pace (and not after you've spent all afternoon piecing together 1 suit to go out and pvp 1 time,) but a steady pace... people will find pvp AND pvm more enjoyable and do it more often.

Then other people will see this and join in.

The alternative? Exactly what we have now... Players like Mook begging for PvP.

...

 

[Black magick]

I really don't see how this group is different than the other except, when imbuing started to make their enemies stronger, they lost the joy and decided to try out normal shards to find some easy targets

LOL! Wow, this has to be the fail post of the month. We all are trying normal shards so we HAVE targets. No most of them aren't easy either. Quite a few pvpers there make most pvpers here look like a joke.

 

[FrejaSP]

LOL! Wow, this has to be the fail post of the month. We all are trying normal shards so we HAVE targets. No most of them aren't easy either. Quite a few pvpers there make most pvpers here look like a joke.

I know, quess I was just trolling.

No matter what, we all want the same, more players and more fun on Siege.

Now the question is, how do we get more to PvP?

I truely believe more will PvP if if we all care a little about sharing the fun instead of only think about own fun.

You did not consider PK's for PvP'ers, why?
Because they attack non PvP'ers?
Why do you think this non PvP'ers play Siege and not trammy shards?

I can tell you, they don't mind getting attacked, they just don't like being the attacker.

PK's, Anti PK's, victims who try to fight, guildwars, factions, it's all PvP but different levels of PvP.

If you kill someone new to PvP, instead of telling him he sucks or calling him a noob, give him some advices, let him keep his items and maybe offer him a fight more so he can learn.

Also if you fight someone weak in PvP, maybe slow down a little and try to let him fight you a little before you drop him.

Stuff like that may help more to be willing to stay and fight.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

I know, quess I was just trolling.

No matter what, we all want the same, more players and more fun on Siege.

Now the question is, how do we get more to PvP?

I truely believe more will PvP if if we all care a little about sharing the fun instead of only think about own fun.

You did not consider PK's for PvP'ers, why?
Because they attack non PvP'ers?
Why do you think this non PvP'ers play Siege and not trammy shards?

I can tell you, they don't mind getting attacked, they just don't like being the attacker.

PK's, Anti PK's, victims who try to fight, guildwars, factions, it's all PvP but different levels of PvP.

That is a perfect description of why I moved to Siege. I think the hardcore pvp`rs seem to think that is all this shard is about is pvp. I`m ok with being called a puss because I`d rather fight back inside a dungeon for example instead of standing in Luna scratchin my ass lookin for a fight.

I get far more entertainment by doing what I used to do on prodo except I have much more to worry about here. I look forward to that fight that just happens while I`m trying to do something else. Like when Krystal kicked my ass at MG mage shop...... and didn`t loot my full alchy mule. Even forgot to bless my alch taly. That was exciting,even if I had been dry looted,thats why I came to Siege. I don`t need big brother saving me from all the dangers of the world like ya have on prodo.

When thinking of solutions to Siege problems, I think more need a more open mind about the broad spectrum of playstyles that exist on this shard and why people came(past and present). I bet even when this shard was hoppin...... there was alot of pvm`rs that was happy to see that red sneekin up on em.... or that damn thief that just ran off with my "precious!"

 

[Black magick]

I know, quess I was just trolling.

No matter what, we all want the same, more players and more fun on Siege.

Now the question is, how do we get more to PvP?

I truely believe more will PvP if if we all care a little about sharing the fun instead of only think about own fun.

You did not consider PK's for PvP'ers, why?
Because they attack non PvP'ers?
Why do you think this non PvP'ers play Siege and not trammy shards?

I can tell you, they don't mind getting attacked, they just don't like being the attacker.

PK's, Anti PK's, victims who try to fight, guildwars, factions, it's all PvP but different levels of PvP.

If you kill someone new to PvP, instead of telling him he sucks or calling him a noob, give him some advices, let him keep his items and maybe offer him a fight more so he can learn.

Also if you fight someone weak in PvP, maybe slow down a little and try to let him fight you a little before you drop him.

Stuff like that may help more to be willing to stay and fight.

I already know all of this. No, I don't classify pkers on the same level as pvpers.

 

[nightstalker22]

I already know all of this. No, I don't classify pkers on the same level as pvpers.

Agreed. I am a PK'er, I do not consider myself a PvP'er, though Pk'ing is Player vs. Player.

I tried PvP here for a bit, but was discouraged by the faction suits I couldn't get a hit on.

I was told, "You have to have a faction suit to compete.", which I translated to, "get on crutches like everyone else."

If all the PvP scene here has to offer is faction gear fights, I'll stick to PvM and Pk'ing. I only wear GM armour with 2D macros when pk'ing, giving everyone a fair chance.

One of the most fun fights I had was with Bruin in Compassion as I came upon him while he was collecting arrows from ratmen, and I was too. I had to run away to collect more arrows mid fight, as I was that low on them. That epic battle lasted about 15 - 20 minutes.

Then there was the Turkey Massacare in Barter Town...good times.

 

[Black magick]

I tried PvP here for a bit, but was discouraged by the faction suits I couldn't get a hit on.

I was told, "You have to have a faction suit to compete.", which I translated to, "get on crutches like everyone else."

If all the PvP scene here has to offer is faction gear fights, I'll stick to PvM and Pk'ing. I only wear GM armour with 2D macros when pk'ing, giving everyone a fair chance.

Contrary to popular belief, you don't need faction gear to compete. It just helps make a high end suit more easily. Either way, you are going to have to pay to get a good suit.

 

[Uvtha]

I think there should be both. And allow everyone to farm silver, and put a turn in box for faction items someplace to return some silver.

Problems solved.

 

[Tjalle]

Then there was the Turkey Massacare in Barter Town...good times.

Heh, that was fun.

You put up a fun fight there. If only I would have remembered to use Dispel Evil on those pesky pixies.

 

[Kat]

Any more votes? There were 70ish in one of our other polls. Where ever you stand, get your votes in ASAP. UHall post and PM's go out Monday!