• Hail Guest!
    We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
  • Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
  • Hail Guest!,
    Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
  • Hail Guest!
    Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!

Idocs are obsolete

Andrasta

Goodman's Rune Library
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Auto banking of soul & account bound items at idoc's is a very good idea. @Mesanna @Kyronix What about a mass returning of a large group of soul stones? Nothing would make me happier if this happened. I would load a house, let it fall and all the little green, red & blue stones would find their way back home.
 

Restroom Cowboy

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Well thats a little selfish of you I think. You wont do Idocs because you do not have the patience or time commitment. But the reason you dont do them because how it effects the things you enjoy?.. Your words. Ya screw the guy who enjoys idocs right?
The only ones truly enjoying IDOCs now are the people doing it for RMT. Other people used to enjoy doing them, but since it only takes 15 seconds to scan an entire house for all item IDs, the only ones who find true enjoyment are those who cheat. The average player will almost never get the goodies, because they are picked up before they hit the ground. (notice I said almost never, even the sun shines on the dogs arse from time to time.)

IDOC guilds? Look around...its no longer about fun...it is about maximizing profit...

@Smoot, good idea bud...but personally I would rather just see stuff get deleted when houses fall to keep things simple. Let the scripters fight over the empty plots until the devs. finally give them the boot for scripting.
 

Percivalgoh

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Well I think it might help to cleanup the game by deleting all the items in an IDOC but it's fun to try to get them. I can't really do them unless the IDOc coincides with my limited free time. However I think IDOCs should have two separate events one is the house falling and then there should be a delay in when you can place again like maybe 24 hours or something. Just my idea but I am rarely at any IDOCs
 

Merth

Journeyman
Ive only once seen a house sign show in decay and the next day it was gone....so never even seen a loot fest personally
 

jack flash uk

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Only players that actively do idocs and understand them should have the right to have a say on the subject. I don't go to Fel for example and stay out of any conversations that can have any negative affect on Feb players enjoyment of the game.

Idocs have been ruined enough because of people crying all the time, The only real winners now as a result are multi screen script timing cheats.

Return idocs to original terms. Patch the game EVERYDAY to kill script programs job done. But Mesanna has no interest in changing the cheating
 
Last edited:

Merth

Journeyman
Only players that actively do idols and understand them should have the right to have a say on the subject. I don't go to Fel for example and stay out of any conversations that can have any negative affect on Feb players enjoyment of the game.

Idocs have been ruined enough because of people crying all the time, The only real winners now as a result are multi screen script timing cheats.

Return idocs to original terms. Patch the game EVERYDAY to kill script programs job done. But Mesanna has no interest in changing the cheating
Rofl what a tool! This is the most idiotic comment I have heard in a long time. If you dont participate in something you may or may not want to participate in then shut up.
 

Spartan

Certifiable
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
<raises hand> Question ... Even though I don't IDOC at present, does all this mean I have no right to comment on something that MIGHT affect me tomorrow? Pretty damn selfish if that's the case as I have heard some good arguments pro and con.

But that's okay ... you boys go ahead and chit-chat about this. I'll go fix some popcorn and grog and watch.
 

Merth

Journeyman
I think that was Jacks Point.
And Jacks point is idiotic ....just because you havent had the opportunity to do something doesnt mean you dont want to do it. Also doesnt mean you dont understand the mechanics of it, also doesnt mean you shouldnt give your opinion in ways the system could be improved. That would be comparable to me saying pit bulls should be looked at just like any any other pet. But because I dont own one I cant comment on that topic...assinine!
 

jack flash uk

Crazed Zealot
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Rofl what a tool! This is the most idiotic comment I have heard in a long time. If you dont participate in something you may or may not want to participate in then shut up.
Like I said, If you don't do idocs then you should not be able to influence the way they are working.

If you moan about them and don't actively spend time doing them then the only tool here is the one you see in the mirror

Like you I can be childish a stupid.

And for your info I have 1500 plus idocs on several shards over many years to my name, so that is why I speak about idocs
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
.just because you havent had the opportunity to do something doesnt mean you dont want to do it. Also doesnt mean you dont understand the mechanics of it, also doesnt mean you shouldnt give your opinion in ways the system could be improved.
If you have never done an IDOC. How do you know what will improve it?

Explain the mechanics of the IDOC timer pls.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Or my opinion that if you just park yourself at a bank doing nothing but sitting there the game should log you out due to inactivity. Know anyone that does this?
Would you rather I put a toothpick on a key that runs a macro that says Hello Everyone!
 

Merth

Journeyman
Would you rather I put a toothpick on a key that runs a macro that says Hello Everyone!
Haha no this was an obvious dig as I wanted to give you a gift but never got a response after repeated attempts :)....i really dont care what any player in this game does I just do what I enjoy. My whole point is people should be free to give an opinion or idea without being chastised because they may not have the experience another has. I dont attempt idocs as my time is limited, i dont want to spend all my time running around looking at house signs, marking runes, and then camping or waiting on timers for a house to fall, then race to grab what I can. If you read any comment ive made has nothing to do with changing the mechanics as I dont know how they used to be compared to now. What i have replied is based on the theory that scriptors are the only ones racking up. Obviously they arent doing anything about them so what other solutions are there? Which is what I thought these threads were about? Just an example someone posted they should put the item drops on random top end mobs. Well why should they? Top end mobs already drop better stuff, so if thats a solution why not put on random mobs so anyone may get it? If scriptors are the only ones getting stuff then just delete it...problem solved. It doesnt take an experienced idocer to make these common sense doable suggestions.
 

Merth

Journeyman
And yes I understand some people make their gameplay strictly doing idocs and may have better suggestions and in doing so they should be listened to and given more consideration based on experience.
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Haha no this was an obvious dig as I wanted to give you a gift but never got a response after repeated attempts
Darn I like stuffs.

I go sit at an IDOC when someone knows the time. But after a few minutes I get bored and go somewhere else.

I have no idea how to "fix" IDOCs. IMO the items should fall to the ground. Need to be able to use pack animals. I will grab the 60,000 pile of whatever.
 

Merth

Journeyman
Darn I like stuffs.

I go sit at an IDOC when someone knows the time. But after a few minutes I get bored and go somewhere else.

I have no idea how to "fix" IDOCs. IMO the items should fall to the ground. Need to be able to use pack animals. I will grab the 60,000 pile of whatever.
No worries I still have for you and will catch you there eventually lol. And ya my luck i would grab a chest of 60k boards while someone else grabs a chest of rares lol
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
That's what I usually get. I was happy with some chests with 3 blue colored piles of cloth at one.

This is my stop I'm out of this thread.
 

Cymidei

UO Pacific News Reporter
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
Plenty of people have gone IDOC through no fault of their own (billing errors, military service, real life stuff). It’s harsh to lose everything you built up over years of game play that way. What other game treats it’s players so poorly for taking an extended break? UO would be a better game if things went into account based storage and house plots opened up instead of IDOCS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Stinky Pete

Babbling Loonie
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I used to be a frequent IDOCer. I have done several IDOCs in both Tram and Fel. I never noticed Fel IDOCs having the issue with scripters because they just end up dead. My solution would be to make the area around the house an open PvP area once the house falls. Fel IDOCs are much more fun anyway, even if you don't PVP.

I remember having a blast at a Fel tower several years back even though I didn't get a whole lot and died a bunch of times. It was one of my favorite UO moments.

If that can't be done, I say delete all the crap. Y'all got way too much junk as it is.
 

Blackie

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
I'm telling ya, apply the grubber behavior to packies in a demolition zone and nobody gets to bring in 10+ accounts with 50+ packhorses all auto-looting anymore. More people would get "something" that way.

House go boom, packy go zoooom!
 

Pawain

I Hate Skilling
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
No packies turn it into those accounts still getting most of the stuff. But now you get to stand there full and watch.

I'd rather be able to fill my bug with 1 chest at least.
 

celticus

Crazed Zealot
UNLEASHED
Plenty of people have gone IDOC through no fault of their own (billing errors, military service, real life stuff). It’s harsh to lose everything you built up over years of game play that way. What other game treats it’s players so poorly for taking an extended break? UO would be a better game if things went into account based storage and house plots opened up instead of IDOCS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Agree, but think also of people that absolutely will NEVER come back into the game because of life/and death circumstances, and choice, or they would be away for 5-10-20 years..Is the game supposed to sequester their wealth, items etc. and keep them out of circulation indefinitely? Is that good for the game in the long run? Not so sure. So it is a complex question as to what choices are the best. You must see this from all aspects, not only the aspect of t he people that qui the game one way or another.
One thing that seems to be universally agreed upon, is to find ways to remove the systematic abusers of these idocs, the botters, RMTers, etc. that haunt these.
I got one for you..(LOL) : What if ALL idoc items just go POOF suddenly and unexpectedly, as soon as the house/castle/keep goes idoc, on the Xth day and everything gets randomly distributed to the bank box of random people in the same shard? Nothing decays, and nothing can be "looted" or go on the ground. It just appears one at a time in random people's bank box but not EJ (of course). You wont need to go there with 50 packies, and you wont need to worry about getting PKed in Fel. The gold in the account can also be distributed but not all at once : can go at gold divided by accounts/players on the shard, then dropped into each random account. It could be 10k or 700M or 1-2 PLATS who knows?
How do you like this idea of wealth redistribution? In low pop shards, this may amount to some substantial gains for the remaining population also.
Leaving the game for 10-15 years, is like DYING in RL. So what happens then? Simple: You died..You created a huge or small fortune or no fortune right? So what happens then? You have no-one to inherit your stuff, your house car(s), millions/home(s)/billions etc. Now what happens? You did not leave a will or donate anything and your stuff is there. After the attorneys, fancy or not so fancy funeral etc. Your stuff will likely go to the government maybe? So what will the government do with these? Of course if its a nice socialist government, it will try to redistribute some of it to public works and needs. The people that will benefit from this will not be required to FIGHT for it, or haunt your attorney, your now empty house etc. Your proceeds will (hopefully) directly or indirectly help MANY people via public works and things that would tend to help an entire society etc.
So why this should be so much different in this game? Why we have to create a culture or specialty of VULTURES that would look to benefit from an accounts death? Answer may be simpler and under our very nose : RANDOMLY and equally redistribute the goods to paying accounts that are active. Drop them in the bank boxes randomly..Label it a gift or a deed labelled "In memory of ----", or "Gift from the Gods" etc. Comes in a gold color bag. The uo gold deed comes as a direct drop in your bank account, but at the same time a note is dropped in your bank explaining "You received 2.3 PLATS of gold endowment UO gift on 12/25/18" etc etc.
Sounds unusual radical and crazy? Agree.

But it would possibly help do several things:
==Eliminate idoc scripters and idoc hunting effectively altogether.
==Eliminate completely the specialty of idoc vulture from the game.
==Put resources locked up for years or decades back into circulation.
==Give a hope to registered new or not so new uo players of something GRAND for them may happen unexpectedly.
==Possibly attract more REGISTERED paying players.

And : Yet another way that provides a little bit of a gold sink:

Structure went idoc, and in Xdays, house plot is open and empty. ALL items, gold, resources etc, EVERYTHING goes into a LOTTERY POOL.
Each player is required to register for the lottery : One registration per account. Not 7. Registration costs ONLY 100K/month. This is to make even the poorest players eligible. Hunt Swoops or Sphinx if you have to etc.
There is a visible list of items in the pool in the Brit town square that you can see.
A drawing is . once a month for completely random items for each registered player, including gold.
Lotto winners are announced in a different list there, for each month.
So everyone gets to benefit for this random lotto, both rich and poor.
The winnings happen as "drops" in the bank account. And the note about it in the bank box say something like : "You have been granted a graceous gift from the life's efforts of a departed soul"

Quitting the game for one reason or another is a bad thing for the game. Somewhat akin with the horror or the definite eventuality of RL death. But in the game, you can take a terrible thing, and create NEW life out of it, and not just for the vultures of all types, but for everyone. This may help the game possibly, and take it from a vulture and thieving/scamming mentality as idocs are concerned, to a better level. Possibly.
**Now after this long winded and controversial post he quickly hides under desk to avoid onslaught of flame-throughers, rotten tomatoes, rotten eggs etc heading this way**
 

SwordofExcalibur

One of the last Rangers of Skara Brae
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
*just smiles quietly* I mean, its easy to cheat in this game. I had some relevant thoughts, placed them, then regretted it. The playing field is not fair on any side of this truncated icosahedron. Oh well. I enjoy the good with the bad and have experiences to make memories.

Memories and experiences are about all you can really take away with you from UO once the lights burn out.
 

Cymidei

UO Pacific News Reporter
Alumni
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
Campaign Supporter
Agree, but think also of people that absolutely will NEVER come back into the game because of life/and death circumstances, and choice, or they would be away for 5-10-20 years..Is the game supposed to sequester their wealth, items etc. and keep them out of circulation indefinitely? Is that good for the game in the long run? Not so sure. So it is a complex question as to what choices are the best. You must see this from all aspects, not only the aspect of t he people that qui the game one way or another.
One thing that seems to be universally agreed upon, is to find ways to remove the systematic abusers of these idocs, the botters, RMTers, etc. that haunt these.
I got one for you..(LOL) : What if ALL idoc items just go POOF suddenly and unexpectedly, as soon as the house/castle/keep goes idoc, on the Xth day and everything gets randomly distributed to the bank box of random people in the same shard? Nothing decays, and nothing can be "looted" or go on the ground. It just appears one at a time in random people's bank box but not EJ (of course). You wont need to go there with 50 packies, and you wont need to worry about getting PKed in Fel. The gold in the account can also be distributed but not all at once : can go at gold divided by accounts/players on the shard, then dropped into each random account. It could be 10k or 700M or 1-2 PLATS who knows?
How do you like this idea of wealth redistribution? In low pop shards, this may amount to some substantial gains for the remaining population also.
Leaving the game for 10-15 years, is like DYING in RL. So what happens then? Simple: You died..You created a huge or small fortune or no fortune right? So what happens then? You have no-one to inherit your stuff, your house car(s), millions/home(s)/billions etc. Now what happens? You did not leave a will or donate anything and your stuff is there. After the attorneys, fancy or not so fancy funeral etc. Your stuff will likely go to the government maybe? So what will the government do with these? Of course if its a nice socialist government, it will try to redistribute some of it to public works and needs. The people that will benefit from this will not be required to FIGHT for it, or haunt your attorney, your now empty house etc. Your proceeds will (hopefully) directly or indirectly help MANY people via public works and things that would tend to help an entire society etc.
So why this should be so much different in this game? Why we have to create a culture or specialty of VULTURES that would look to benefit from an accounts death? Answer may be simpler and under our very nose : RANDOMLY and equally redistribute the goods to paying accounts that are active. Drop them in the bank boxes randomly..Label it a gift or a deed labelled "In memory of ----", or "Gift from the Gods" etc. Comes in a gold color bag. The uo gold deed comes as a direct drop in your bank account, but at the same time a note is dropped in your bank explaining "You received 2.3 PLATS of gold endowment UO gift on 12/25/18" etc etc.
Sounds unusual radical and crazy? Agree.

But it would possibly help do several things:
==Eliminate idoc scripters and idoc hunting effectively altogether.
==Eliminate completely the specialty of idoc vulture from the game.
==Put resources locked up for years or decades back into circulation.
==Give a hope to registered new or not so new uo players of something GRAND for them may happen unexpectedly.
==Possibly attract more REGISTERED paying players.

And : Yet another way that provides a little bit of a gold sink:

Structure went idoc, and in Xdays, house plot is open and empty. ALL items, gold, resources etc, EVERYTHING goes into a LOTTERY POOL.
Each player is required to register for the lottery : One registration per account. Not 7. Registration costs ONLY 100K/month. This is to make even the poorest players eligible. Hunt Swoops or Sphinx if you have to etc.
There is a visible list of items in the pool in the Brit town square that you can see.
A drawing is . once a month for completely random items for each registered player, including gold.
Lotto winners are announced in a different list there, for each month.
So everyone gets to benefit for this random lotto, both rich and poor.
The winnings happen as "drops" in the bank account. And the note about it in the bank box say something like : "You have been granted a graceous gift from the life's efforts of a departed soul"

Quitting the game for one reason or another is a bad thing for the game. Somewhat akin with the horror or the definite eventuality of RL death. But in the game, you can take a terrible thing, and create NEW life out of it, and not just for the vultures of all types, but for everyone. This may help the game possibly, and take it from a vulture and thieving/scamming mentality as idocs are concerned, to a better level. Possibly.
**Now after this long winded and controversial post he quickly hides under desk to avoid onslaught of flame-throughers, rotten tomatoes, rotten eggs etc heading this way**
Ok but why is anyone else who hasn’t earned those items entitled to them?

If items go out of circulation they become rarer which can also benefit the player economy.

A player though has intrinsic value that by far exceeds any item and a player’s time spent in the game is a precious resource that person can never receive again. Why should a scriptor, random passerby, or lottery winner benefit from some one else’s effort? Players do return and if they stay that benefits UO.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Stinky Pete

Babbling Loonie
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I got one for you..(LOL) : What if ALL idoc items just go POOF suddenly and unexpectedly, as soon as the house/castle/keep goes idoc, on the Xth day and everything gets randomly distributed to the bank box of random people in the same shard? Nothing decays, and nothing can be "looted" or go on the ground. It just appears one at a time in random people's bank box but not EJ (of course). You wont need to go there with 50 packies, and you wont need to worry about getting PKed in Fel. The gold in the account can also be distributed but not all at once : can go at gold divided by accounts/players on the shard, then dropped into each random account. It could be 10k or 700M or 1-2 PLATS who knows
All I hear is, "I should get something for not doing anything." I'm sorry, but this is by far the stupidest thing I have ever read on this subject.

I still think they should put a vendor at the bank where you can just ask it for gold and it gives you however much you want. That way all the people who want everything but don't want to have to do anything to get it can be happy. But the trade off should be that using this vendor takes away your ability to talk to anyone in the game, that way I don't have to listen to stupid stuff like this.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Agree, but think also of people that absolutely will NEVER come back into the game because of life/and death circumstances, and choice, or they would be away for 5-10-20 years..Is the game supposed to sequester their wealth, items etc. and keep them out of circulation indefinitely? Is that good for the game in the long run? Not so sure. So it is a complex question as to what choices are the best. You must see this from all aspects, not only the aspect of t he people that qui the game one way or another.
thats my whole point. if we had a very high population, no it probably wouldnt be that bad. but we dont. we have 21 years of items between an ever shrinking player base. In short we NEED items to constantly be permanantly lost.

Im an active trader. ive seen this first hand. items have all drasticly lost value because of overabundance.

yes, many prefer this becauese they can just buy the item.

but thats bad for the game. any "pay to win" setting that replaces participating in game content is detrimental.

items should be scarce enough so that people actually do the content themselves rather than just buying it for dirt cheap off an idocers vendor.

im willing to bet that not many in this thread have actually gone out and gotten an arty drop, jewel, etc that they needed in years. I know i havent. i just buy it for next to nothing. id like a reason to actually play the game.

That, paired with the lower prospects of someone returning if they lost everything, plus that the servers can absolutely handle storing all items now (again because of very low population) are the reasons that IDOCs are obsolete.
 
Last edited:

MalagAste

Belaern d'Zhaunil
Alumni
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
UNLEASHED
Campaign Supporter
thats my whole point. if we had a very high population, no it probably wouldnt be that bad. but we dont. we have 21 years of items between an ever shrinking player base. In short we NEED items to constantly be permanantly lost.

Im an active trader. ive seen this first hand. items have all drasticly lost value because of overabundance.

yes, many prefer this becauese they can just buy the item.

but thats bad for the game. any "pay to win" setting that replaces participating in game content is detrimental.

items should be scarce enough so that people actually do the content themselves rather than just buying it for dirt cheap off an idocers vendor.

im willing to bet that not many in this thread have actually gone out and gotten an arty drop, jewel, etc that they needed in years. I know i havent. i just buy it for next to nothing. id like a reason to actually play the game.

That, paired with the lower prospects of someone returning if they lost everything, plus that the servers can absolutely handle storing all items now (again because of very low population) are the reasons that IDOCs are obsolete.
I've gotten pretty much everything I own either by doing the required steps to get it or by trading with those who do... not normally by gold...

Most the folk I know get what they have themselves... and many of the people I know give things away... FOR FREE... shocking concept I know but they do. And they do things for the community... put on events and things of that nature... some do things weekly. As for me I save all year for one big event...

It is the 1 thing that I actually seriously respect about the new game I've been playing... You can't trade with other players. You either have to buy it with gold you earn off the marketplace or go get it yourself... there is no trading... save giving someone food... And there are no gold sellers... Supposedly you can pay people to level up your character for you but I fail to see the point in that... but with zero actual trading, I'd say they have solved the problem of gil sellers... and RMT sites. Everything you have you earn.
 

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
with all due respect Malagast, im sure your the minority.

out of all the people i know, no one gets there own items.

ive built over 60 fully developed / geared / scrolled characters in the past few years. only geared 2 of them from actually playing game content (many years ago).

theres obviously something wrong with the system if thats even possible in a game.

before anyone mentions event items (because yes, its some of the last content barely worth doing) i stopped playing actual content to get what i needed well before i even started doing events regularly. it just isnt worth the time when you can buy dirt cheap idoc loot. (and personally id prefer if EM items were somehow account bound, again to encourage people to actually do EM content themselves rather than just buying the item)

yes, i do new content just to see it. but that makes for very short lived game content when you dont actually HAVE to do it to get what you want. Like it or not, thats what keeps mmos going. the constant search for items. we dont have that in UO. largely because the idoc system provides a constant flood of items.
 
Last edited:

SwordofExcalibur

One of the last Rangers of Skara Brae
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
ive built over 60 fully developed / geared / scrolled characters in the past few years. only geared 2 of them from actually playing game content (many years ago).

theres obviously something wrong with the system if thats even possible in a game.
This statement is very confusing. If you are never doing any game content, where does your fortune come from to be able to gear 60 characters? You mentioned I think you ran vendors. Where do those items come from to put on those vendors if you're not doing game content and not doing it for many years? I'm just curious because when I returned last year, I had to really bust a hump to farm gold, tame and sell pets, and farm scrolls to even get a fortune to being starting somewhere. I have only 2 characters fully equipped.

I never got a single thing from IDOCs to even being to start a fortune.

before anyone mentions event items (because yes, its some of the last content barely worth doing) i stopped playing actual content to get what i needed well before i even started doing events regularly. it just isnt worth the time when you can buy dirt cheap idoc loot. (and personally id prefer if EM items were somehow account bound, again to encourage people to actually do EM content themselves rather than just buying the item)
I'm having trouble grasping your train of thought from this entire thread. Are you ranting about the lack of content, the detrimental effect of IDOCs as they influence the idea of the lack of content, or are you burned out on the game due to lack of content? Because I haven't been able to tie the concept that IDOCs are a huge detrimental imbalance to the game just given your recent statement that you are able to gear 60 characters without having done content.

I've done a few IDOCs and I've never been savvy enough to get anything good from them due to competition. It was a huge waste of time. I could have been farming gold and selling pets in that time.

So, while I don't even care for IDOCs, and as some have said that they are a product of mechanics from the game, are you sure your argument is truthfully about how IDOCs are a problem, or is it that there is a lack of content to keep the game relevant?

yes, i do new content just to see it. but that makes for very short lived game content when you dont actually HAVE to do it to get what you want. Like it or not, thats what keeps mmos going. the constant search for items. we dont have that in UO. largely because the idoc system provides a constant flood of items.
To say "what keeps mmos going" [is] "the constant search for items" contradicts what you said earlier when you stated "ive built over 60 fully developed chars" [and] "there is something wrong with the system." How are you building without doing? You must be doing something or working off of having done something. If it included finances obtained from IDOCs, then, I have to wonder, if your argument is credible, but that is speculation.

This argument seems to have a base issue though: lack of content.

But, everyone has been doing content to be able to get all these IDOC items anyway and now all their fortune is just spilling into the country side, so that either the base of existing players that never got access to these things can now have access, or new comers can vie for them, or greedy, savvy, unscrupulous players can gobble them up.

So, please forgive me, but I can't seem to correlate your desire to improve the game by your statements, because doing content is what got us to IDOCs falling, and we are now just in an age where all the old vets are either quitting or done with UO.

That being the case, that sounds as though, UO is in its -golden years- and not a -golden age.- (Golden age, meaning, where there is a passion for ingenuity.)

If, then, UO is in its golden years, I suppose in order to make the game relevant, you want to update all the systems? One being, make IDOCs lack the ability to remove content from a game that has no persistent amount of content.

But that would require a redistribution of wealth, because, as confessed by many, they rely on IDOCs. Therefore, if IDOCs just made all items vanish, people would have to farm them again. That might be fine. Maybe.

But, if the majority of players are vets, and having already done farming these things, what's the purpose of re-farming or obtaining things for the sole purpose of getting content that you've already done. I mean, by your admission, you don't need to do content anymore.

That in itself is a paradox lol. I understand. Who wants to re-farm the same item over and over in that context?

I mean, all the vets have done all this content, supposedly. These days, isn't the game more to them just another version of Second Life, the MMO?

I'm all for making UO great again, but the game is so tenured and built on a premise that it is an open, persistent-world, and a sandbox MMO (the Devs philosophy, as well as, I thought, the gamers/vets philosophy), that I thought everyone wanted to stay away from other MMO business models.

Persistent world was UO's charm, no?

So, I mean, this game is really just another version of Second Life, now, in it's golden years, isn't it?

I really love this game still. And I'm really trying to grasp what this thread and the community want from UO, but that voice is all over the map, it seems, while not being realistic about UO's current status and future.

Is UO staying to its roots, which make it less relevant in today's modern MMO era, or is it going to adapt, change, and stay relevant to please the gamer base and continue business?

When EC came out, an adaption, vets hated it and still hate it to this day. So, that's thoroughly confusing.

I think this situation can be summed up in one sentence: what is the philosophy for the business model going into year 22 in order to make the game relevant and enjoyable? lol
 
Last edited:

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@SwordofExcalibur

Some good questions. I think i can sum up my views by answering 2 of them.

"This statement is very confusing. If you are never doing any game content, where does your fortune come from to be able to gear 60 characters? You mentioned I think you ran vendors. Where do those items come from to put on those vendors if you're not doing game content and not doing it for many years? I'm just curious because when I returned last year, I had to really bust a hump to farm gold, tame and sell pets, and farm scrolls to even get a fortune to being starting somewhere. I have only 2 characters fully equipped."

--- Not from static game content thats for sure (except for the first 2 weeks after an expansion release, or limited time content such as global events, invasions, EM events)
I made alot of gold farming conjurers trinkets. limited time global event. after i had that initial gold, mostly buy / sell (most of that cheap loot came from idocs which i did not do myself, but cheap enough that its easily bought in bulk and resold. Other than that, building suits and EM events (ive already explained how i wish EM items were account bound, but if there not, yeah im going to make gold from them. plus i do have a nice rares collection) Yes, crafting is game content. Crafting in UO i think is very healthy, but in my opinion you should be able to make just as much profits from killing bosses, doing quests, etc as spending a few hours making suits. currently, this is not the case because of the flood of items from idocs.

My point in this is that all the content the devs spend so much time to develop, its not the best way to make gold. actually if your doing that game content, itll take way longer to get items than just buying them. Yes, you can do it for fun. but i dont agree that actually doing the content holds someone back is good game design.

"To say "what keeps mmos going" [is] "the constant search for items" contradicts what you said earlier when you stated "ive built over 60 fully developed chars" [and] "there is something wrong with the system." How are you building without doing? You must be doing something or working off of having done something. If it included finances obtained from IDOCs, then, I have to wonder, if your argument is credible, but that is speculation.

This argument seems to have a base issue though: lack of content."


--- The problem is there is absolutely no lack of content. we have tons of it. lots of bosses, mobs, lands, etc. the items gained from those activities tho are just relatively worthless, again because of idoc loot. to the point where the content isnt worth doing.

That brings us to the personal opinion, and my own question.

Is it better to have a game where the main focus is NOT doing content the devs design such as bosses and pvm? This does allow a player to focus on things like RP, rares collecting, and PVP, being able to totally ignore the dev provided pvm content.

OR

is it better to have worthwhile pvm content, and essentially force players to do that content if they want to gear their character and make it better. In this scenerio you of course could also do all other activites, like PVP, collecting, RP, etc. but you would have to do the normal, everyday content as well to gear a character.

I tend to agree with the latter. a situation that will never exist while we still have idoc loot constantly flowing back into the game.

Being a sandbox game, perhaps im wrong. perhaps PVM content should only be a minor distraction. But i hear players complain everyday about how its so hard to get ahead and buy that 10 billion gold castle when the only good options to make gold do NOT include normal content.

On a side note, of course you can make some gold doing PVM content. but like you said its very difficult and time consuming. I just wish it were a little more balanced, and eliminating idoc loot would help achieve that.

Hope that makes sense.

And no offense to idocers. i know if somethings there, and easy, people will take advantage of that. i dont blame them. i just dont agree we should have idocs in the game in 2019 because of the reasons ive gone into throughout this thread.
 
Last edited:

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
also worth noting, i only necroed this thread because the other idoc one was necroed and remembered i had my own good idoc thread. i do still believe in what ive said about idocs in this thread, but at the end of the day i just take UO as it comes and enjoy it as much as i can in its current form.
 
Last edited:

Riyana

Operations
Administrator
Professional
Governor
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Event Coordinator
UNLEASHED
Campaign Patron
I agree that we need things consistently removed from the economy, but saving everything out of a fallen house on the owner's account isn't removing the stuff from the economy--it's free storage, and I've zero doubt it would be abused as such. Hence my suggestion to save account bounds but either move everything else to tmap/mib tables or just delete it. A logical reevaluation of what items are account bound might help too--OR, let's add value to the store with an 'account bound' token that lets you store an item if/when your account lapses. Something along those lines.
 

Keith of Sonoma

Grand Poobah
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
also worth noting, i only necroed this thread because the other idoc one was necroed and remembered i had my own good idoc thread. i do still believe in what ive said about idocs in this thread, but at the end of the day i just take UO as it comes and enjoy it as much as i can in its current form.
Let's Necro a thread on how gold sellers should be banned. :)
 

SwordofExcalibur

One of the last Rangers of Skara Brae
Supporter
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
@SwordofExcalibur

--- Not from static game content thats for sure (except for the first 2 weeks after an expansion release, or limited time content such as global events, invasions, EM events)
I made alot of gold farming conjurers trinkets. limited time global event. after i had that initial gold, mostly buy / sell (most of that cheap loot came from idocs which i did not do myself, but cheap enough that its easily bought in bulk and resold. Other than that, building suits and EM events (ive already explained how i wish EM items were account bound, but if there not, yeah im going to make gold from them. plus i do have a nice rares collection) Yes, crafting is game content. Crafting in UO i think is very healthy, but in my opinion you should be able to make just as much profits from killing bosses, doing quests, etc as spending a few hours making suits.
So you made some gold from farming and selling. Ok, that's doing a form of content. If it's not farming from mobs and bosses, its just using the existing player economy which is a part of the content. So still, I don't see the point of your argument. IDOCs are simply content that has been completed and available for transfer to the first person that grabs the item.

If the IDOCs introducing a flood of new items into the game potentially causes said items to drop in gold price, then, what is the problem? Prices dropped. Items are affordable.

I took a break this year. Last Christmas season, Animal Taming 3 skill mastery books were easily 100-150MIL on player vendors. This Christmas season, I was actually able to afford one finally. I purchased one for 45MIL off a player vendor. I also noticed prices on scrolls have decreased. I'm not paying the 50-65 ON ATL for 120 Tactics. I actually found them going for 35-45.

So, unless you are targeting specific items causing a swell of market saturation, perhaps maybe arties, then I really have to disagree with you that IDOCs are a problem in UO. Cheating on IDOCs, on the other hand...

currently, this is not the case because of the flood of items from idocs.
You need to be more specific. What items? What flood?

My point in this is that all the content the devs spend so much time to develop, its not the best way to make gold. actually if your doing that game content, itll take way longer to get items than just buying them. Yes, you can do it for fun. but i dont agree that actually doing the content holds someone back is good game design.
1. Farming gold is a staple of Massively Multi-player Online RPGS. That is a fundamental. It exists in UO. This fact cannot be argued.
2. There are significant, albeit, slow ways of farming gold in UO. I don't see farmers farming gold in 2018 like I used to see farmers farming gold in 2000. Shame was literally the farming playground. Shame these days is not busy as it used to be.
3. The roof, the exodus encounter, and champion spawns are not the current generally accepted means of farming content for gold and items in the game? Then why are they priced, imo, so terribly high?
4. Pet trade is vibrant and lucrative, if you are patient enough.

I just fail to understand where your argument says that content is not present to farm gold. The game is 22 years old, so its full of -old money.- That old money is exchanging hands.

Gold is duped. That is a fact. I agree that thread should be necro-ed.

The problem is there is absolutely no lack of content. we have tons of it. lots of bosses, mobs, lands, etc.
Contradiction to your original premise.

the items gained from those activities tho are just relatively worthless,
I disagree. It stilll costs 15-20MIL to get a tangle. It still costs 35+MIL to get a 120 Tactics. It still costs 20+MIL to get a Hawkwind's robe. Cameos start out at 150MIL. I feel this is inflated, but these items are generally heavily sought after. Your point is not working.

again because of idoc loot. to the point where the content isnt worth doing.
You need proof. I don't see any. But I'd be interested, if there is proof, that IDOCs are hurting the economy and game-play. Currently, I think duping and scripting is what has hurt the economy. These notions are standard MMO issues not always easily addressed. It's kind of the industry stanard. It happens in every MMO, generally speaking.

Is it better to have a game where the main focus is NOT doing content the devs design such as bosses and pvm? This does allow a player to focus on things like RP, rares collecting, and PVP, being able to totally ignore the dev provided pvm content.
I think I am able to intuit your complaint: you dislike the current treasure table system. You feel IDOCs are an infringement on an already poor treasure table system. I don't know, the Devs felt that IDOCs are not infringing by their historic actions, but that could quickly change given a particular circumstance they are unhappy with; point being that is, if IDOCs are truly out of control today to the point Mesanna is having to intervene. But that needs to be eloborated on.

OR

is it better to have worthwhile pvm content, and essentially force players to do that content if they want to gear their character and make it better. In this scenerio you of course could also do all other activites, like PVP, collecting, RP, etc. but you would have to do the normal, everyday content as well to gear a character.
Farming gold has already been implemented by the original game design. So you're point of forcing characters to farm gold doesn't work. "Worthwhile pvm content" is present in the game. You and a certain group of players may not like that content, but you can't argue that it is not there. This is evidenced to the fact that Cameos from Minax are so highly sought after.

If you want better content, more content, or better treasure tables from trash mobs, that would be a different argument entirely, not one related to IDOCs.

Being a sandbox game, perhaps im wrong. perhaps PVM content should only be a minor distraction.
I don't think OSI ever intended PVM to be a distraction. I think it is intended to be a fundamental component. But introducing more content under a sandbox game philosophy is an entirely different topic. And, even though I don't care for IDOCs, IDOCs do seem to work with a sandbox gameplay mentality. Its an event, it brings traffic, there is socialization, the possibility of wealth, and this equates to joyful gameplay.

But i hear players complain everyday about how its so hard to get ahead and buy that 10 billion gold castle when the only good options to make gold do NOT include normal content.
Ah, but how are IDOCs at fault for this? I've stated the game is full of -old money.- Old money is buying the 10-50 billion castles, not to mention, cheaters and unscrupulous users; some who were given power, some not.

It is possible to afford housing in UO. That's not an issue IDOCs are at fault for.

On a side note, of course you can make some gold doing PVM content. but like you said its very difficult and time consuming. I just wish it were a little more balanced, and eliminating idoc loot would help achieve that.
Unfortunately, you have not proven that eliminating IDOC loot would help achieve that. You haven't actually addressed core concerns like cheating, the game engine's future, or the support available to OSI to innovate and support the game. Your premise seems to be your unhappiness with treasure tables and the availability of faster ways to farm gold to match up to the current OVER-INFLATED economy and the presence of old money.

And that is where I empathize: the game is broke here in the current age. The economy is super inflated and the game design does not match up to meet the problem of quick gold accumulation in order to meet a level of gamer happiness. In order to find a level of happiness, as a gamer, we have to circumvent the current content gold farming method, hope for a rare artie, and sell it; or farm pets, or sell RMT items from the UO store, or sell things from seasonal events, etc. etc.

So, ultimately, here are two issues: farming gold in the game is broke or the over-inflated economy is broken.

To sum it up: I think farming gold is actually decent (could be better, but that's a gripe) and the economy is just broke.

IDOCs would then -actually- be a way for financially insecure players to be able to compete in the current economy age. Taking that away, seems rather harsh, wouldn't you say? You'd be forcing those players to farm gold, something you attest to dis-liking, or have them farm items from the Roof, Exodus, etc, or craft, or get lucky and attend an EM event to sell a rare, or do a seasonal event, or farm pets.

In conclusion, IDOCs are not a problem in the game at the moment; old money and cheating are.

Necro that thread!
 
Last edited:

Smoot

Stratics Legend
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@SwordofExcalibur

when i say static content, i mean stuff thats there all the time everyday. not stuff like global events or EM events or invasions. i dont consider buying and reselling stuff content at all, but thats matter of opinion.


If the IDOCs introducing a flood of new items into the game potentially causes said items to drop in gold price, then, what is the problem? Prices dropped. Items are affordable.

this is the whole point of the entire thread. yeah, their "affordable" so likely to be bought with gold instead of players actually doing the content themselves. and as i explained earlier, the best way to make gold in the current meta IS NOT to do static content.

If items were say 10 times as expensive, the player doing normal bosses and playing casually would be on same playing field in terms of value to those only doing limited time content like EM events, Idocs, or only playing during global events. They will never reach that level of value as long as items are being recycled over and over again from idocs because it floods the market.

theres complaints all the time about how hard it is to make gold. in short, if items were worth more those players doing basic things like lady mel, treasure maps, global loot, basically everything thats available 24 hours a day in the normal game would be much better off, and that content would actually get done rather than be mostly ignored.

Thats about as simple as i can put it. if you can not see the rationality of this than im sorry i was not able to communicate the scenario.
 
Last edited:
Top