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IDOCing and the value it adds

Discussion in 'UHall' started by arkiu, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. Lore

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    It's all a result of a result of a result. You gotta cut out the disease and hope it hasn't caused too much damage. It is possible to get rid of these players. It's obvious who is making multiple trades and sales of real estate it's obvious which accounts are being used to sell houses and pass along gold without any other activity. It's not impossible to track. With so few players involved it should be a no brainer on how to even track it and make a case against it.

    My only thought on why it's not done is that a) They may actually be providing a useful service for returning players that want to come back with some stuff they can buy with real cash. B) They can't afford to ban so many accounts. If your think they can't enforce this because of staffing issues then how will they enforce any rule they make?

    Shard economy, shard transfer necessity, real money in the game... it's all enabled by a lack of decisive action. The culture of enabling this play style, to me, speaks volumes on where the Devs stand with it. It could be a windfall for more than just the players.

    We've already seen where EMs were abusing power.
     
  2. Queen Arya

    Queen Arya Rares Fest Host | Atl Sept 2011 & June 2013
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    Rolls Eyes*
    @Scribbles
    How about turn in points from idoc loot- use this toward the goodie bags and gear given away at rares fest and player events
    How about all the times items from idocs are dropped at haven bank
    How about stashing idoc loot in a fel/ tram house and advertising your dropping it on a certain day/time (player event)
    This was community playing for me and my guild mates/friends
    I am currently collecting turn in points now to buy dyes to dye items for goodie bags for the next rares fest
    Tho its sad when a house falls, I have also seen as many players returning to UO and I had their items stashed was glad I did and was able to give them something back
    To me the only most valuable item on UO is my soulstones. Why do players leave them in their house? they need to be in their bank
    many of my house designs were from sitting at an idoc and figuring out how they designed their house
    Skill gains were also done while idoc sitting
    These are some of the points to idocing that have not been mentioned in prior posts
    and yes @Scribbles-we made many friends at idocs and had tons of fun doing them
    just my two cents- oh and @Nabin pass that bottle of moonglow red-seems this is a hot topic that could use some cool calming wine
     
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  3. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    *waves a hand for the Hirschel the Tavern Keeper*

    Tap one of those barrels of mine and fill a few pitchers my friend if you please. The Queen has asked for a round to be served. Yes of course the Queen. Queen Arya my friend.

    *flips a Gold coin to Hirschel and settles back into a dusty old book with the cover half falling off*
     
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  4. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    Just means the RMT (Green Gold Guys) will sell more plats. So yep good for their system. And we will then be at the person with the most RL Cash Wins.
     
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  5. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    The only thing is... they get the gold in many ways....as I knew some who bought and sold it back in the day.
    There is a limit to how much they have and if enough drys up even they will have little to sell.
    Unless they are willing to go out and make it too
    I think many of you think along the lines of a few years back... we don't have that many players anymore.
    The Gold that is flying around is circling from hand to hand... there really is no true gold sink...
    This would eat up the gold...
     
  6. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Babbling Loonie
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    This - it's not just IDOCs. Same reason we all go to new shards to create new characters from scratch, to get back to the basics of the game. Same reason I've been taking a break lately playing Divinity:Original Sin 2
     
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  7. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman
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    All fair points sir scribbles.

    But i still just dont agree with the concept
    So I'm curious capt -- considering you took a look at it from multiple angles, and if you were a dev, would you maintain the current IDOC system? What changes would you make if no? I hate to put you on the spot but im genuinly curious if you are willing to answer.
     
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  8. Scribbles

    Scribbles Long Live The Players
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    yep, a few bad apples can make the whole bunch seem bad.

    Personally i see idocs in the future going one of two ways.

    1. auction system. House sign after 7 days of decay turns into a 5 day auction. This will be done for all houses except those in fel. Fel remains the same for pvpers.

    2. Redoing times of current system. The problem currently is that the "bad people" have so much time to set up on a house the regular joes dont stand a chance. im not totally sure of how the devs could make this type of system full proof, but im sure with some creative thinking they could come up with something.



    Above all else though, the ultimate goal would be to ban or at least give some sort of consequences to the small amount of "pro scripters" Currently they have no obstacles in their way.
     
  9. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Babbling Loonie
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    This do Not only Sound unfair it is.
     
  10. Finley Grant

    Finley Grant Babbling Loonie
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    It's your own fault that you lost house and stuff. No one elses
     
  11. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Nope this is not good... I get the idea that this would be a good gold sink but this is just wrong...

    IDOC's have always been like a lotto... Maybe it ought to be more like a lotto... maybe it ought to be something not really a highest bidder thing... but more of a raffle...

    I would rather see people bid on it and get the opportunity to loot it... however IMO this should be folk who actually want the plot.

    I really don't ever want to see things go to the highest bidder.

    Lotto ticket cost is determined by size of plot and # of stored items. Bidders must use account that can take the house... then it's up to them to keep it, drop it or sell it. This gives everyone a chance... yes some will have tons of accounts to lotto with but it's far more fair than highest bidder.
     
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  12. ShriNayne

    ShriNayne Lore Keeper

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    I agree with @MalagAste, if the system changes then it has to be a level playing-field, the gap between new and veteran players is already huge gold/plat-wise, let's not encourage the people who already made huge amounts in-game and in some cases real-life to make more. All too often changes are just playing into the hands of scripters and cheaters. :(
     
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  13. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    Bad idea, if anything they should revise the IDOC timers or change some rules to make it more fair for the rest. There's greed in pretty much every play style in UO, eliminating IDOCS will just push more people away from the game. Let's not forget that UO is an immersive sandbox, no other game offers the same depth and freedom
     
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  14. It Lives

    It Lives Slightly Crazed
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    Some time the easy route is the best solution, just get rid of idocs. Yes people will leave and make big noise like now. People can put lipstick on this hog all day long but its its still a hog.
    This should be part of account creation.

    1. Do you want your items to be redistributed upon account de-activation yes or no? *(please check one).
    Note: bulk orders /reagents/ gold/ material is not a distributional item.
     
    #64 It Lives, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  15. Lore

    Lore Sage

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    You can't remove every play style that has cheating in it. We'd be playing Paper, Rock, Scissors in the end. The obvious answer is to ban the people clearly doing it. Real money has no place in a video game no matter how indirectly.
     
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  16. Khaelor

    Khaelor Sage
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    On my server, a decently populated one, 20+ castles and another 20+ "Keepsake" keeps, 4 or more luna houses and various other houses are owned by the same couple. A castle just for Xmas gifts. One for bulk order deeds. I'm sure they don't know what is in 75% of them anymore, but they continue the hoarding.
     
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  17. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
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    I would not remove IDOC's from the game, I think they are too unique and central to some people's play styles to do that. They need some changes though, since the current system has quite a few flaws. Admittedly I have no programming experience whatsoever, so I have no idea how hard this would be to implement, but here are some changes I think could help improve things:

    1) Remove the 5, 10, 15 hour drop system. It was worth a try, but all it has done is discourage the normal players who don't have the time to wait around an entire day for an IDOC to fall. The scripters on the other hand, can stay as long as needed, so the new system has given them a large advantage over normal players. I would suggest a system where the house can fall at any time within a 5 hour window after it reaches the final stage of IDOC'ng. Statistically, the house is more likely to fall between 0-3 hours than 4-5 hours, so this would make it more reasonable for a normal player to hang out there for a few hours instead of having to stay all day.

    2) Implement small and frequent mandatory anti-cheating patches. Every time there is a patch, the cheat programs stop working for a day or two until their creators update them to work with the new patch. If there were a small daily patch that changed just enough to break their programs it would take most of the illegal advantages away from the cheaters, since their programs wouldn't work for half the day or more until someone updated them, and by then the next patch would be getting ready to break the cheats all over again. Eventually they would get tired of having to fix their cheats on a daily basis, and they would inevitably stop using the cheats as much out of the frustration caused by the cheats being unreliable.

    3) Fix whatever is wrong with the Grubbers so that they do what they were originally supposed to, which is grab pieces of loot and run off with them when the house falls. The idea was that people would have to chase and kill the Grubbers to get whatever items they took, separating the group of looters into those picking up items and those chasing Grubbers. Doing this gives both groups less competition for their half of the items, since the other half of the group is distracted elsewhere. For whatever reason, the Grubbers have never worked properly. Almost every time you kill a Grubber at an IDOC it either has nothing at all, or only picked up two or three things, which are usually complete junk. Everyone at IDOC's knows this, so the Grubbers get completely ignored until all the items are looted, which defeats the purpose of their existence.

    4) Create different methods for house placement, and alternate them randomly. Instead of the current system where you just drop a house where the old one was, which pretty much guarantees the most experienced IDOC'ers will always win against normal players, add different options that may randomly appear.

    For example, 1/3 of the time a lottery box shows up where the house used to be, everyone clicks it, and then 30 minutes later it randomly picks a winner and allows only that person to place the house (and gives them a written notification so they know they won). This seems possible, since resizing your house already reserves the land for you for a certain amount of time. If the player doesn't place the house within 30 minutes, it randomly picks a new winner until it runs out of people, at which time it allows any random person walking by to place. That system gives everyone a fully equal chance to win the house regardless of skill level or monetary wealth.

    Another 1/3 of the time, an auction box shows up where the house used to be. The auction lasts for 24 hours, and whoever has the highest bid at the end wins (adding something similar to the Stratics 10 minute rule to avoid last second sniping would probably be a good idea too). This allows those with monetary wealth to purchase the house like they would have done anyway, but instead of them paying another player the gold is deleted from the game entirely. This creates a permanent large-scale gold sink to help repair the damaged economy.

    The final 1/3 of the time, use the same system that we currently have, whoever places the house first wins. This allows professional IDOC'ers to use the skills they have developed over the years to win houses still, and sell the houses for profit like usual. They are still able to make gold which they enjoy, but they are no longer able to hold a monopoly over the entire housing market, because 2/3 of the time other people have a chance to win the good houses as well.
     
  18. Scribbles

    Scribbles Long Live The Players
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    1. absolutely!

    2. unfortunately this wont break all programs but you are on the right path.

    3. the grubbers should of been monsters that also attacked. the reason was to attack people that were afk. but yes they actually need to grab something for them to be useful at all.

    4. absolutely!

    great post captn, hopefully someone is listening.
     
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  19. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    Great post and bang on! :postcount:
     
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  20. arkiu

    arkiu Journeyman
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    Marvelous post @Captn Norrington! There is a reason i singled you out! And thank you master @Scribbles! In this sea of chaos we call stratics, its often refreshing to hear voices of reason now and then.

    I admit however i am still not 100% convinced IDOCs are a valuable aspect of the game - but i can certainly now see both sides. Solid input from everyone!

    @Mesanna
     
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  21. Keith of Sonoma

    Keith of Sonoma Crazed Zealot
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    Trust me, a lot of them are selling items, and houses for RMT, which I think is very sad. As I stated at the 20th party, if you sell UO items for $$$ you need a better real job. FYI, I personally have been "propositioned" about RMT by a lot of people, including at least 2 who have posted ON THIS THREAD!
     
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  22. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I think this is closer to a good idea... however I think what would be good is that the final 1/3 of the time which allows regular placement... spawns a massive dragon that hordes everything from the house and you have got to kill him to get loot... This would end AFK script looters... and if not killed he goes to Destard for folk to find him... with his horde. He should be able to summon perhaps undead hordes... This would put some fun and adventure into IDOCs... and would defeat scipters.
     
  23. Khaelor

    Khaelor Sage
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    Lol...

    If you think EC is bad with em boss loot windows.....
     
  24. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    He could just dump everything on the ground as he dies just like an IDOC what would be the difference? But having it be a bad monster that can kill would discourage AFK scripting...
     
  25. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    Well Mal there is another option she can do for this...
    This might work too ...
    Ok, people have the 90 days to catch the house before the decay cycle turns on and they have 5 days to get it paid for and back in hands.
    No notice on the house that it is going idoc. but if the owner logs in or a co owner a bright red warning message to catch the eye telling them house is about to disappear.
    At the end of the 5 day timer all contents of house fall into a moving crate type box and it auto moves to the Counselor hall. or like storage area.
    Where pre set bidding stone in that building already stands for such event. Very similar to the Rares fest type site.
    Bids for 3 days taken, winner gets small message to collect it, 2 day to collect or it goes back up and you loose your bid amount.
    House Poofs.
    This way house area is open to the first person who finds it.
    Very random and fair.
     
  26. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    How about just do away with the IDOC part of it period. At the end of the 90 days the house just falls. If someone is lucky enough to find it great, if not nothing lost or gained. End of problem and fair to all.
     
  27. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Again your just feeding the Rich... Lotto is the way to go... Random winner... everyone has an equal chance whether rich or poor new or old.
     
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  28. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Babbling Loonie
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    Keep the IDOC but announce exactly when it's going to fall.
    For those that say IDOCs are a big community event, I'll tell you how to make it a much bigger community event. When the house goes into IDOC, post a message on the sign saying exactly what time the house will fall. Then everybody can be there at that time. Throw in some monsters too when it falls for even more community fun. Just do away with the hours of waiting and camping
     
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  29. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    See
    Scribbles just gave you the best reason to remove idoc's totally off the game menu.
    A normal person has no chance with people with this kind of information.
    Don't hand me oh any one can get this... the truth is most honest players wouldn't think to go that far.
    I now agree with the Dev....
    Mesanna has it right, this would be the only fair thing to do. No one gets it. just unlock things inside to rot and when the server clean up has happened then poof the house.
    I am sorry guys I see no other option and no a raffle is not the answer... too many are falling as it is.
    I sea lot of people coveting others hard work when things get to this point.
    Not even I am innocent of this... and I hate to say it but we all have gotten a bit more greedy then we were in the past.
    IT has to stop.
     
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  30. Scribbles

    Scribbles Long Live The Players
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    id agree with you other than the fact that the devs and @Mesanna have known about this type of thing for way too long and done absolutely nothing.
     
  31. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    Well Scribbles there is a rumor the dev have been on spare time attempting to come up with a way to address this. Mind you this is just a rumor...
    I have heard Mesanna after the last yip fest that was done here about the housing decay and the changes she got wind and was super mad..
    Mad enough to almost stop it all and just drop an let rot.
    Cooler heads prevailed and she thought better of it.... or this convo would be moot.
     
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  32. Scribbles

    Scribbles Long Live The Players
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    Id be impressed to say the least, if they stopped all the cheating. These programs have been around almost as long as UO itself and nothing has been done. again, its just sad what is possible.
     
  33. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    Don't get this wrong Scribbles but its a double edged sword.
    Scale the whole thing in a nut shell.. first the time it takes, the legal of EA poking their nose in, loss of perhaps multi accounts,,,
    We may want it to stop.. but for every action there is an equil and opposite reaction
     
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  34. Scribbles

    Scribbles Long Live The Players
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    Completely acceptable opinion. But if this is the case they should probably level the playing field and let everyone in on the secret. Because as of now every third party program that is accepted is listed on the UO website. No program that allows you to do what i have done, what multi boxers continue to use, what resource miners use, what legendary farmers are using or any other cheater for that matter is listed.
     
    #84 Scribbles, Oct 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2017
  35. Scribbles

    Scribbles Long Live The Players
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    any who, bed time for me. Thanks for the conversation @Lady Storm Im sure this will all be deleted by the morning. Have a good night, and thanks for supporting UO. :)

    For the last time probably...

    *waves*
     
  36. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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  37. Archnight

    Archnight Legendary Crusader
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    Thread has been cleaned up. Please keep all comments and replies on subject without accusations or illegal 3rd party content. All posts that do not follow will be removed and warnings will be issued. Thanks for your understanding
     
  38. Lore

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    There needs to be a crackdown Rodrigo Duterte style. Zero tolerance, zero excuse. You have any real money involvement in the game regardless of excuse... Full ban. Full surrender of all digital assets. They need to add a clause to the TOS for waiving the right to file against you in your own home location as well. Sue these people in a Virginia court and make them have to defend themselves across state/country lines at their expense. Even if it's a frivolous suit. They don't show up, enforce the default judgement and start garnishing income.

    See how long UO lives off of your work.

    It's beyond frustrating how some of you just can't play a game to play a game.
     
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  39. UNKNOWN of Atlantic

    UNKNOWN of Atlantic Journeyman
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    everyone Keeps saying how idocs are bad because it means players are leaving ..Yes they leave & come back ... Don't yall remember back when you couldn't even place a 7x7 on Atlantic ... Because houses didn't decay ? there Still are Old time Osi old bugged houses still standing on the shard if you look( small ones though) If People didn't return to UO after summer break was over there would be castle and keep spots open like there are on other shards. I know a lot of Guilds that Transfer to these shards to Farm Spawns Because there isn't any fear of raids.

    I have only done Idocs I mean Ive dabbled in pvm & pvp ( I'm Ultra Legendary in the Running skill) But just to say oh I don't do this So it sould be removed is Silly. Oh I don't like the fact of people Sitting around house Waiting for a players items to drop That's left ... Well used to be Way the normal joe could come back Get a house plot & few items to sell or keep for décor etc. But the Mutli Bots have killed the fun of idocs for a lot of people. Myself included.

    I have had many good rivalries come from idocs that turned into friendships. We all have helped each other out. The older players we all had stakes out claims in area & Say I was at a idoc a buddy need to place a keep or castle I would say hey I placed this did you want it for down the road & They would do same for me .. I have given houses away sold them for dirt cheap .Helped people with named items of friends characters who left the game or passed away. I know all you hardcore idocers Remember Mayling who always would tell anyone who asked the time the idoc was going to fall.

    Ive said it many times Idocs should be like treasure chest that spawn pops out @ random times to make it not so boring at times ..& when house actuall falls each size had a certain grade of monster that spawns .. like castle would have 10 Ancient dragons 5 harbingers & like 2k Horde minions (LMAO) :devil::arr: and spawn that reveals Hiders! :eyes: :coco:These Grubbers now are no fun what so ever.

    I remember back in the day when we had actual GMs interaction theyd show up in those cool robes & deal with problems. I even remember one old IDOC I was hiding at I got tosses 8 screens away to see if I would run back to the idoc and some would come & watch all the Frantic Fun ..Yes it is fun its like the cycle of life The cow dies that feeds the grass and trees etc etc . You haven't had any idoc fun till you have done a felluca castle idoc with 6 pvp guilds fighting over it:sword: talk about stealth landmines!!:stretcher:

    Idocs are like everything else there is good & bad But I Have more Good memories than bad ones. I haven't been doing many idocs as I am still trying to coupe with my loot hoarding ... I mean Sorting for vendoring!

    Its sad to see people like @Scribbles leave cus he did try to make things fun again for the Community .. :cursing:Those darn gozas in the fel idoc party drops!!! All I got was Logs man Thanks!! :violin: But it was still fun I think had you gotten some more support those could have been a lot funner with bigger houses.

    As far as idocs being a gold sink you ever sit and wonder why all the good EM items are on other shards & Non really on Atlantic? I have yet to see any Cool EM drop from Atlantic like I have seen from other shards .. I don't do other shards So I don't collect that stuff ..but others do & that's cool its part of the game system.

    *****And with that Joxer the Mighty Stealths by Hirschel and out the back of the tavern with @Lord Nabin Finest brew Barrel under Each arm Grinning****:pirate::shots::pint:
     
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  40. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    I was checking runes in my books to see if any need to be pulled for remark...
    I ran across house spots in places you would think would be snapped up fast.
    Nope.
    Its not that people are leaving the game in force ...some are going. But I also have seen many returning to their old shard as returning vet friends return to the game and don't want Atlantic headaches.
     
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  41. AtlanticRealtor

    AtlanticRealtor ICQ 647752375
    REALTOR

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    How many times we fought each other @UNKNOWN of Atlantic and than the fight would continue on ICQ's , than We became friends and than just like you said, How many times I had to call you to help me plot a Keep or Castle and how many times we both planned on lock the whole area with lot of plots... I learned soooo many tricks with "old timers" like you and tbh everyday we learn something new!

    Huge Fel fights, Guild helping protect the area while we fighting trying to plot, You trying to plot from inside your house, Like I said before, there is sooo many tricks with Idocs and House placement that most people think that is just point and click...
     
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  42. UNKNOWN of Atlantic

    UNKNOWN of Atlantic Journeyman
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    @AtlanticRealtor Like The saying goes why have Enemies When I can have friends ... LOL Yeah Was almost same thing with @Scribbles I plot blocked a castle of one his LNR guild mates @ the time Cus I thought it was Obsidian Knight who at the time I was feuding with because he flipped out on me giving a house back to person who lost it instead of giving it to him .... I Swear if you ever see a picture of Obs & hes bald I'm the reason ... I would out place him & then give plot away to a friend & then friend would sell it like few month down road & split it with me ... ahh Like sand through the hour glass These are the Days of our UO Lives!! :drama::rolleyes::naughty-angel:
     
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  43. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    AR your so right...
    Back in the first year it was point and click...but after that year placing took a hell of a lot more to put down that keep or castle.
    Fel was hellish at a idoc's....
    The fighting sometimes went way beyond the placement....

    I learned over the years how to sight out a plot and drop a house on a dime...
    My son became so good he was asked to go to shards we didn't live on to help drop in a castle or keep that was giving the rest hell to go in...
    I remember one in fact...
    He logged in on a placement account, asked to be gated from the bank to the area, he had gold on most shards and a house deed or tool..
    the minute he got there he took 1 step poof the castle went in first try. Jaws dropped. Yes back then he was that good.

    Today the fighting for homes on Atlantic is hideous, You all take it personally.
     
  44. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Slightly Crazed
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    In Albion, not only do gold sellers get their accounts permabanned, they also permaban the account of anyone who traded with them (which they can get from the logs, including any in game conversations between the two parties).

    THATS how you enforce ToS.
     
  45. skittles1337

    skittles1337 Journeyman
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    Lets be honest tho, Albion and UO are nothing alike. Albion you buy the game and basically you can play it free forever. So them banning you forces you to buy the game again giving them more money, whereas, uo is month by month currently without any other options. If UO was like Albion they would be banning kids left and right because they know most of us would pony up the money to buy the game again.
     
  46. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    I don't think so there kiddo..
    The people I been listening to on Atl. would walk away and never darken the UO door again if they were perma banned for buying like that.
    Now if it was from day one of the game then maybe... but as of today the UO doors would shut in a few days...
     
  47. Lore

    Lore Sage

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    I'm sure they like to think that they are that important... I know people that would come back if the economy was fixed. And by fixed I mean no more economy of real cash in a video game.
     
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  48. Captn Norrington

    Captn Norrington Stratics Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter The Valorian Knights

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    I agree that real cash being involved is bad for the health of the game, but to be fair, it was always like that... it's just more noticeable now because there are far less players. In the old days there was still all this real cash stuff, it was just drowned out by the huge player base and more gold for item transactions.

    I still remember seeing Atlantic castles going for $5,000+ each on Ebay, and the one non-replica Lieutenant of the Britannia Guard sash that went for $8,000 (before it got duped badly). That was in around 1998-2001.
     
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  49. Tyrath

    Tyrath Grand Inquisitor
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    Fools and their money are soon separated :) But never to late to start fixing a problem and enforcing the TOS
     
  50. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Grand Inquisitor
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    So true Captn Norrington...
    E bay was a big RL cash maker and it was let free for too long before EA did anything to stop it..
    Gold, houses, accounts... pets even.
    Money bought a lot .
    Which means people make a lot off UO too.
    Oh yes the population hid some big deals that went down... for eye raising RL cash amounts.
    TOS being in force is still active but the critters who cheat have become harder to pin down ... you might say OH I see then wny not you???
    Well there is a right way to catch and a wrong way....
    Cant blame Mesanna on this one ether believe me she would love to nail them to the wall... flame thrower in hand too.
    But she has to go by EA legal guidelines..
    Ah lawyers the Great Whites of the land...