I see no problems with tamers hehe.
-
Hail Guest! We're looking for Community Content Contribuitors to Stratics. If you would like to write articles, fan fiction, do guild or shard event recaps, it's simple. Find out how in this thread: Community Contributions
-
Greetings Guest, Having Login Issues? Check this thread!
-
Hail Guest!, Please take a moment to read this post reminding you all of the importance of Account Security.
-
Hail Guest! Please read the new announcement concerning the upcoming addition to Stratics. You can find the announcement Here!
IDEA to balance overpowered tamers !!!
- Thread starter Guest
- Start date
- Watchers 0
G
Guest
Guest
Yep well we have had mounts since day one. I was in UO when the very first nightmare was ever seen in Ultima Online. Now them puppies been in the world *with tamers* since the lost lands were created. WWs been around Dragons been around all tamables. Dismount was created with scenario one The SAVAGE Empire orc savages 10/2000.
Yet the issues most talk about nowadays are *newer ones*...them SE and ML pets ..overkill from development and to my knowlege which may be in error them puppies have never gotten even one nerf...yet the golums were nerfed ages ago as too overpowering. They were nothing even at full stats skills originally with all that they had originally, now compared to these SE ML pets, that.. they ..developed.
We also never had SELF RES in UO and UO was pretty fine without any of that self resing *wandering healers red or blue or relying upon others was the way to go thus enabled folks to fight more with honor as their enemy might be the only res they got and glad to get it....but they developed self res. too so fighting honorably went down the toilet too when players no longer may need even their enemy to res em and say good fight. So ya get the jerks they self res no honor kill whomever however needing not even their enemy to res them once and they return the favor some other day..its all gone if self res is all some are doing out there *needing no one not even npc to res* em.. let alone their enemy, yet dependancy on each other even as enemies to get a res or a gate to res..is Siege not self res. needing no body ever for a res.
Self res is *anti Siege when yu really think on it..is about as anti siege as overdosed soulstones making all here ..multiple chrs of self sufficency needing not crafters nor crafters beetles to supply them with wares to enable them to pvp longer or better ie potions regs bombs apples ..easy then to say crafters do not matter nor their mounts..cuz they have the soulstones to be self sufficent like 5-7 chr. slotted ones on production shards..again needing no one ..defeating supply lines and community and Siege as it was meant to be...co dependencies on each other for..something.
Yet the issues most talk about nowadays are *newer ones*...them SE and ML pets ..overkill from development and to my knowlege which may be in error them puppies have never gotten even one nerf...yet the golums were nerfed ages ago as too overpowering. They were nothing even at full stats skills originally with all that they had originally, now compared to these SE ML pets, that.. they ..developed.
We also never had SELF RES in UO and UO was pretty fine without any of that self resing *wandering healers red or blue or relying upon others was the way to go thus enabled folks to fight more with honor as their enemy might be the only res they got and glad to get it....but they developed self res. too so fighting honorably went down the toilet too when players no longer may need even their enemy to res em and say good fight. So ya get the jerks they self res no honor kill whomever however needing not even their enemy to res them once and they return the favor some other day..its all gone if self res is all some are doing out there *needing no one not even npc to res* em.. let alone their enemy, yet dependancy on each other even as enemies to get a res or a gate to res..is Siege not self res. needing no body ever for a res.
Self res is *anti Siege when yu really think on it..is about as anti siege as overdosed soulstones making all here ..multiple chrs of self sufficency needing not crafters nor crafters beetles to supply them with wares to enable them to pvp longer or better ie potions regs bombs apples ..easy then to say crafters do not matter nor their mounts..cuz they have the soulstones to be self sufficent like 5-7 chr. slotted ones on production shards..again needing no one ..defeating supply lines and community and Siege as it was meant to be...co dependencies on each other for..something.
I
imported_BlacK RaiN
Guest
RTLFC
to Alex - You sound like an idiot. All your doing is playing devils advocate for no-good reason to prohibit discussion on this topic and not even giving us a reason for why you don't agree with it.
Your posts are worthless.
to everyone else...
If you have to stealth right up to someone (even a moving target on a mount) it will take ingenuity and effort to actually perform the tactic. Which is better for both sides rather than the double click from anywhere and dismount crap we have now.
As for tamers... really, the solution is to have it so that if a pet is fighting ANYTHING for ANY reason, the tamer is flagged as an agressor and cannot hide.
Stealth needs to work properly again where you have to wait the full hiding delay to start stealthing.
Self Sacrifice needs to be adjusted on siege... I don't care if we can res... what I can't stand is the people who abuse it to get their loot back cause they're really nothing more than trammy cannon fodder and need that little bit of insurance to cope with death (HI IBICHI!!)
Corpses need to NOT be instanced... that means if you want to loot your corpse... you need to do it piece by piece just like I am looting your corpse.
There's just a bunch of minor [censored] that needs to be addressed for us... including Monster Loot, RoT, Private housing (we should be able to siege homes) and so on...
honestly PvP is more balanced now than it has been for the past 3-4 years... it just needs more tweaking to be perfect... really, it could be perfect... but its not and I don't think it's stopping anyone from really enjoying the game.
-my 2 cents
to Alex - You sound like an idiot. All your doing is playing devils advocate for no-good reason to prohibit discussion on this topic and not even giving us a reason for why you don't agree with it.
Your posts are worthless.
to everyone else...
If you have to stealth right up to someone (even a moving target on a mount) it will take ingenuity and effort to actually perform the tactic. Which is better for both sides rather than the double click from anywhere and dismount crap we have now.
As for tamers... really, the solution is to have it so that if a pet is fighting ANYTHING for ANY reason, the tamer is flagged as an agressor and cannot hide.
Stealth needs to work properly again where you have to wait the full hiding delay to start stealthing.
Self Sacrifice needs to be adjusted on siege... I don't care if we can res... what I can't stand is the people who abuse it to get their loot back cause they're really nothing more than trammy cannon fodder and need that little bit of insurance to cope with death (HI IBICHI!!)
Corpses need to NOT be instanced... that means if you want to loot your corpse... you need to do it piece by piece just like I am looting your corpse.
There's just a bunch of minor [censored] that needs to be addressed for us... including Monster Loot, RoT, Private housing (we should be able to siege homes) and so on...
honestly PvP is more balanced now than it has been for the past 3-4 years... it just needs more tweaking to be perfect... really, it could be perfect... but its not and I don't think it's stopping anyone from really enjoying the game.
-my 2 cents
G
Guest
Guest
C
CorwinWE
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Sorry there should be common sense here on mounts, low end ones that crafters utilise are NOT your one hit wonder kill pets, nor should all mounts be eliminated cuz yall cant fight some tamers or gimpy templates that pvp out there. There are those types of mounts that are NOT even the issue..*for pvpers* vs. *tamers* or *tamer pvpers*..so leave OUR mounts the hell alone and not gotten rid of, they are our uhauls from out in the field to a bank or whereer, crafters mounts are not even the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
And here's a shining example of why you'll never get taming "balanced". Siege didn't use to have ridable pack animals, and everyone got along fine. In fact crafters rarely used pack animals, and bags of sending didn't exist. I'm sure QueenZen got along fine back in those days, you just gated more. But she's sticking up for the status quo because she likes the convenience of the new features. Taming has become one of the most popular templates in the game once they dumbed it down and fixed the bugs so anyone could figure out how to control a pet. Any change that weakens taming will be met by that lobby and shouted down. And EA will listen to that lobby because they really don't care how balanced the game is, they just care that people keep logging in to their tamers and have a happy fun time farming up pixels.
I was never fond of having to remake my template. That's one of the reasons I ran a tamer on Siege. I realized early on that the class would never be completely nerfed (you guys are hardly the first to complain about tamers being overpowered). I read they even removed using faction monster ignore against tamers. lol
btw, if you run across a naked tamer, I suggest you cast paralyze on the his/her pets and on them. That used to work pretty well. If you don't have magery, that's hardly the tamer's fault.
Sorry there should be common sense here on mounts, low end ones that crafters utilise are NOT your one hit wonder kill pets, nor should all mounts be eliminated cuz yall cant fight some tamers or gimpy templates that pvp out there. There are those types of mounts that are NOT even the issue..*for pvpers* vs. *tamers* or *tamer pvpers*..so leave OUR mounts the hell alone and not gotten rid of, they are our uhauls from out in the field to a bank or whereer, crafters mounts are not even the issue.
[/ QUOTE ]
And here's a shining example of why you'll never get taming "balanced". Siege didn't use to have ridable pack animals, and everyone got along fine. In fact crafters rarely used pack animals, and bags of sending didn't exist. I'm sure QueenZen got along fine back in those days, you just gated more. But she's sticking up for the status quo because she likes the convenience of the new features. Taming has become one of the most popular templates in the game once they dumbed it down and fixed the bugs so anyone could figure out how to control a pet. Any change that weakens taming will be met by that lobby and shouted down. And EA will listen to that lobby because they really don't care how balanced the game is, they just care that people keep logging in to their tamers and have a happy fun time farming up pixels.
I was never fond of having to remake my template. That's one of the reasons I ran a tamer on Siege. I realized early on that the class would never be completely nerfed (you guys are hardly the first to complain about tamers being overpowered). I read they even removed using faction monster ignore against tamers. lol
btw, if you run across a naked tamer, I suggest you cast paralyze on the his/her pets and on them. That used to work pretty well. If you don't have magery, that's hardly the tamer's fault.
G
Guest
Guest
Just wait until a 5 slot uberpet hits the servers, mwahaha...
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Think of it like this, you have one blessed item , a tamer has a bless item (usually a dismount weapon) and 2 blessed pets, that's a total of 3 blessed items. This is the real issue, not having to be on foot.
[/ QUOTE ]
They made pet balls blessed now or what? Thats really lame.
Think of it like this, you have one blessed item , a tamer has a bless item (usually a dismount weapon) and 2 blessed pets, that's a total of 3 blessed items. This is the real issue, not having to be on foot.
[/ QUOTE ]
They made pet balls blessed now or what? Thats really lame.
G
Guest
Guest
It is comical that such "skilled" players must complain about constantly loosing to "unskilled" players. Maybe it just sucks being outskilled.
G
Guest
Guest
I never had crafters back in the day.
I had warriors characters..only.
The pack beetle has been around for several years,
but it is not your one hit wonder pet irregardless.
I do not use pet balls of summoning hell I do not even use Bags of Sending.
I do not even use UOA nor macros... haven't even bothered with most of that crap in 10 yrs of playing...assorted templates mostly pure warriors on chesapeake and pure crafters here.
I DO use the beetle to haul things with on pure crafters HERE which I never had the interest nor courage to make before.. ie defenseless chrs. in a fel ruleset who only came here to make things ....that pvpers need here ie kegs of potions, very heavy, to lug around to get to a vendor ..or 2- 3 on the chr. if not wishing to be so obvious as to be ON a full up beetle, using self or self and beetle.
I am not sticking up for some *status quo* I am sticking up for the supply line that FEEDS all of you your needs ...to pvp without having to have tons of soul stones to be self sufficent characters as pvpers whom then also HAVE TO BE crafters here too.
But then the status quo uses all those soulstones...they are 10 character templates on *ONE ACCT* some of them...there are still those here though that see that soul stone mega templating on one self sufficent chr. as production shard mentality..and refuse to be *every template* here on one chr.
There are those that only CAME here to make the stuff..the pvpers need and use and scarf down...like pots bombs apples their every day leather armor and more...regs on deeds for em cuz reds can't shop at the npc...we came here to be a part of the SUPPLY LINE...and we use the beetles...so if yall dont want us here ..just say so...get rid of the beetles the packies and expect no one to haul thousands of stones of weight...to feed yalls needs ...we are NOT your pack animals ..we are equals in paying the same to be here ..to help YOU play pvpers.
I had warriors characters..only.
The pack beetle has been around for several years,
but it is not your one hit wonder pet irregardless.
I do not use pet balls of summoning hell I do not even use Bags of Sending.
I do not even use UOA nor macros... haven't even bothered with most of that crap in 10 yrs of playing...assorted templates mostly pure warriors on chesapeake and pure crafters here.
I DO use the beetle to haul things with on pure crafters HERE which I never had the interest nor courage to make before.. ie defenseless chrs. in a fel ruleset who only came here to make things ....that pvpers need here ie kegs of potions, very heavy, to lug around to get to a vendor ..or 2- 3 on the chr. if not wishing to be so obvious as to be ON a full up beetle, using self or self and beetle.
I am not sticking up for some *status quo* I am sticking up for the supply line that FEEDS all of you your needs ...to pvp without having to have tons of soul stones to be self sufficent characters as pvpers whom then also HAVE TO BE crafters here too.
But then the status quo uses all those soulstones...they are 10 character templates on *ONE ACCT* some of them...there are still those here though that see that soul stone mega templating on one self sufficent chr. as production shard mentality..and refuse to be *every template* here on one chr.
There are those that only CAME here to make the stuff..the pvpers need and use and scarf down...like pots bombs apples their every day leather armor and more...regs on deeds for em cuz reds can't shop at the npc...we came here to be a part of the SUPPLY LINE...and we use the beetles...so if yall dont want us here ..just say so...get rid of the beetles the packies and expect no one to haul thousands of stones of weight...to feed yalls needs ...we are NOT your pack animals ..we are equals in paying the same to be here ..to help YOU play pvpers.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
High end pets should only obey their masters if they are using one high resistance !
For example : White wyrms would only obey the tamer if he was using AT LEAST 60 cold resistance. Hiryus would only obey the tamer if he used AT LEAST 60 physical.... Dragons would require at least 60 Fire... Rune beetles would require 60 poison resistance !!
[/ QUOTE ]
While I do feel that tamers are a bit overpowered, I think this idea is kind of silly.
There are other things you can do to curb the rediculousness of pets. I have suggested these options before, but the tamers didn't like the idea much (go figure)
1. The logout/login feature to pull pets to their owner's location should only work while in the vicinity of a stable. This feature was put into the game to keep people from losing their pets, it was never intended to be used as a poor man's petball.
2a. On Siege only, pets killed by a player (not a monster) would suffer a brief skill loss, lasting maybe 5 minutes. The skill loss would be similar to a faction player being in statloss, but with a shorter timer.
-or-
2b. On Siege only, pets killed by a player (not a monster) would suffer 1.0 or .5 loss to each skill instead of the normal .1 loss incurred when killed.
High end pets should only obey their masters if they are using one high resistance !
For example : White wyrms would only obey the tamer if he was using AT LEAST 60 cold resistance. Hiryus would only obey the tamer if he used AT LEAST 60 physical.... Dragons would require at least 60 Fire... Rune beetles would require 60 poison resistance !!
[/ QUOTE ]
While I do feel that tamers are a bit overpowered, I think this idea is kind of silly.
There are other things you can do to curb the rediculousness of pets. I have suggested these options before, but the tamers didn't like the idea much (go figure)
1. The logout/login feature to pull pets to their owner's location should only work while in the vicinity of a stable. This feature was put into the game to keep people from losing their pets, it was never intended to be used as a poor man's petball.
2a. On Siege only, pets killed by a player (not a monster) would suffer a brief skill loss, lasting maybe 5 minutes. The skill loss would be similar to a faction player being in statloss, but with a shorter timer.
-or-
2b. On Siege only, pets killed by a player (not a monster) would suffer 1.0 or .5 loss to each skill instead of the normal .1 loss incurred when killed.
A
AntiOTF
Guest
You can never please everyone when it comes to changes, but the idea is to please the majority. No one is saying your playstyle has no say so in these matters, cause like you said, you pay your monthly fee as does everyone else, we're just saying your playstyle (rideable packies), is expendable for the more important cause. *runs and ducks*
G
Guest
Guest
*laughs*
YOU do know what the word SIEGE Perilous means right.. ?
Militaristically.. a siege CUTS OFF THE SUPPLY LINES and literally starves to death those ..cut off from food ammo medical water and all else... they are besieged..
Cut off yalls supply line hon, you won't even luck out to get a keg or bottle of greater heal or greater cure ........when ya need it if ...no crafter is being the supply line with *expendable* beetles to feed yalls needs.
I can talley up the amt of enchanted apples this shard consumes easily, I bought 1.6k apples off that lady that got that ton of stuff at that idoc when she was new here... made them all up...3 vendor houses full of *just the apples alone* 1.6 k worth............sold out gone in under a week on Siege Perilous.
Potions all of yu use em.............need them some of ya...
thousands upon thousands of *pounds* of kegs potions regs to make em all...
yall bought us all out every alchemist in the land ...oft in the same few moments we restock..
SIEGE it means to besiege a group to cut off all their supplies..of food water medical, resources, and beyond so that the ones besieged...are utterly without...perish...yall want the pvpers to PERISH... ? or have to buy soul stones galore off each other for $$$$$ gp so u can make your own alchemists, scribes, carpenters, they make the kegs, tailors smiths tinkerers...you have to be ALL THOSE hon...yourself each one of yall..
or be besieged supplyless..
Up to yall..
the SE ML pets ARE your problems or the issues....not any of the packies even the blue beetle...if a pk can not off a dorky blue beetle untrained...ya sad pks then.
YOU do know what the word SIEGE Perilous means right.. ?
Militaristically.. a siege CUTS OFF THE SUPPLY LINES and literally starves to death those ..cut off from food ammo medical water and all else... they are besieged..
Cut off yalls supply line hon, you won't even luck out to get a keg or bottle of greater heal or greater cure ........when ya need it if ...no crafter is being the supply line with *expendable* beetles to feed yalls needs.
I can talley up the amt of enchanted apples this shard consumes easily, I bought 1.6k apples off that lady that got that ton of stuff at that idoc when she was new here... made them all up...3 vendor houses full of *just the apples alone* 1.6 k worth............sold out gone in under a week on Siege Perilous.
Potions all of yu use em.............need them some of ya...
thousands upon thousands of *pounds* of kegs potions regs to make em all...
yall bought us all out every alchemist in the land ...oft in the same few moments we restock..
SIEGE it means to besiege a group to cut off all their supplies..of food water medical, resources, and beyond so that the ones besieged...are utterly without...perish...yall want the pvpers to PERISH... ? or have to buy soul stones galore off each other for $$$$$ gp so u can make your own alchemists, scribes, carpenters, they make the kegs, tailors smiths tinkerers...you have to be ALL THOSE hon...yourself each one of yall..
or be besieged supplyless..
Up to yall..
the SE ML pets ARE your problems or the issues....not any of the packies even the blue beetle...if a pk can not off a dorky blue beetle untrained...ya sad pks then.
C
CorwinWE
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I am not sticking up for some *status quo* I am sticking up for the supply line that FEEDS all of you your needs ...to pvp without having to have tons of soul stones to be self sufficent characters as pvpers whom then also HAVE TO BE crafters here too.
There are those that only CAME here to make the stuff..the pvpers need and use and scarf down...like pots bombs apples their every day leather armor and more...regs on deeds for em cuz reds can't shop at the npc...we came here to be a part of the SUPPLY LINE...and we use the beetles...so if yall dont want us here ..just say so...get rid of the beetles the packies and expect no one to haul thousands of stones of weight...to feed yalls needs ...we are NOT your pack animals ..we are equals in paying the same to be here ..to help YOU play pvpers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crafters orginally came to siege to become part of a community that needed them, not to become one man/woman one-stop mega malls. If you needed to haul heavy items around then you had enough magery to cast gate or use a gate scroll and enough meditation to re-cast it as needed; or maybe you asked a guildmate or a friend to help you; or maybe you used a pack horse; or maybe you just couldn't restock your vendor because it was being camped by some pks. Maybe you'd end up be-friending them so they'd leave you alone, or maybe you'd call in your friends to chase them away.
Siege was supposed to be the hard shard, because when things are hard people have to band together and communities form. Merchants used to understand this better than most, because they were the ones run out of business on the other shards because everything became too easy and anyone could make their own uber-mule to supply their own needs.
But of course everyone who actually cared about what used to make Siege unique are long long gone.
I am not sticking up for some *status quo* I am sticking up for the supply line that FEEDS all of you your needs ...to pvp without having to have tons of soul stones to be self sufficent characters as pvpers whom then also HAVE TO BE crafters here too.
There are those that only CAME here to make the stuff..the pvpers need and use and scarf down...like pots bombs apples their every day leather armor and more...regs on deeds for em cuz reds can't shop at the npc...we came here to be a part of the SUPPLY LINE...and we use the beetles...so if yall dont want us here ..just say so...get rid of the beetles the packies and expect no one to haul thousands of stones of weight...to feed yalls needs ...we are NOT your pack animals ..we are equals in paying the same to be here ..to help YOU play pvpers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crafters orginally came to siege to become part of a community that needed them, not to become one man/woman one-stop mega malls. If you needed to haul heavy items around then you had enough magery to cast gate or use a gate scroll and enough meditation to re-cast it as needed; or maybe you asked a guildmate or a friend to help you; or maybe you used a pack horse; or maybe you just couldn't restock your vendor because it was being camped by some pks. Maybe you'd end up be-friending them so they'd leave you alone, or maybe you'd call in your friends to chase them away.
Siege was supposed to be the hard shard, because when things are hard people have to band together and communities form. Merchants used to understand this better than most, because they were the ones run out of business on the other shards because everything became too easy and anyone could make their own uber-mule to supply their own needs.
But of course everyone who actually cared about what used to make Siege unique are long long gone.
C
CorwinWE
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I can talley up the amt of enchanted apples this shard consumes easily, I bought 1.6k apples off that lady that got that ton of stuff at that idoc when she was new here... made them all up...3 vendor houses full of *just the apples alone* 1.6 k worth............sold out gone in under a week on Siege Perilous.
Potions all of yu use em.............need them some of ya...
[/ QUOTE ]
The game is actually much improved when pvp related items are more rare.
I can talley up the amt of enchanted apples this shard consumes easily, I bought 1.6k apples off that lady that got that ton of stuff at that idoc when she was new here... made them all up...3 vendor houses full of *just the apples alone* 1.6 k worth............sold out gone in under a week on Siege Perilous.
Potions all of yu use em.............need them some of ya...
[/ QUOTE ]
The game is actually much improved when pvp related items are more rare.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
I am not sticking up for some *status quo* I am sticking up for the supply line that FEEDS all of you your needs ...to pvp without having to have tons of soul stones to be self sufficent characters as pvpers whom then also HAVE TO BE crafters here too.
There are those that only CAME here to make the stuff..the pvpers need and use and scarf down...like pots bombs apples their every day leather armor and more...regs on deeds for em cuz reds can't shop at the npc...we came here to be a part of the SUPPLY LINE...and we use the beetles...so if yall dont want us here ..just say so...get rid of the beetles the packies and expect no one to haul thousands of stones of weight...to feed yalls needs ...we are NOT your pack animals ..we are equals in paying the same to be here ..to help YOU play pvpers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crafters orginally came to siege to become part of a community that needed them, not to become one man/woman one-stop mega malls. If you needed to haul heavy items around then you had enough magery to cast gate or use a gate scroll and enough meditation to re-cast it as needed; or maybe you asked a guildmate or a friend to help you; or maybe you used a pack horse; or maybe you just couldn't restock your vendor because it was being camped by some pks. Maybe you'd end up be-friending them so they'd leave you alone, or maybe you'd call in your friends to chase them away.
Siege was supposed to be the hard shard, because when things are hard people have to band together and communities form. Merchants used to understand this better than most, because they were the ones run out of business on the other shards because everything became too easy and anyone could make their own uber-mule to supply their own needs.
But of course everyone who actually cared about what used to make Siege unique are long long gone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone everyone whom actually cared about what used to make Siege unique are long gone as you say I guess,
or they are leaving still, cuz nothing they did or achieved here or tried to do/or do/did here to care or to be of help or service, ever seems to matter to anyone, anyhow, everyone too busy farming or just busy their own items and rubble collecting agendas, to have any time for..community any longer in *itemised uo*
Perhaps if they had felt needed or felt they still had a purpose or reasons to remain here, or even appreciated even by a few here, for what all that they maybe have done here or tried to do, then maybe they would have stuck around perma like, or remained, in this, dwindling population of Siege's 'community'.
oh well
I myself have no mega malls nor even any vendors left here any longer either. I am down to just one remaining house here to warehouse my things.
<blockquote><hr>
I am not sticking up for some *status quo* I am sticking up for the supply line that FEEDS all of you your needs ...to pvp without having to have tons of soul stones to be self sufficent characters as pvpers whom then also HAVE TO BE crafters here too.
There are those that only CAME here to make the stuff..the pvpers need and use and scarf down...like pots bombs apples their every day leather armor and more...regs on deeds for em cuz reds can't shop at the npc...we came here to be a part of the SUPPLY LINE...and we use the beetles...so if yall dont want us here ..just say so...get rid of the beetles the packies and expect no one to haul thousands of stones of weight...to feed yalls needs ...we are NOT your pack animals ..we are equals in paying the same to be here ..to help YOU play pvpers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Crafters orginally came to siege to become part of a community that needed them, not to become one man/woman one-stop mega malls. If you needed to haul heavy items around then you had enough magery to cast gate or use a gate scroll and enough meditation to re-cast it as needed; or maybe you asked a guildmate or a friend to help you; or maybe you used a pack horse; or maybe you just couldn't restock your vendor because it was being camped by some pks. Maybe you'd end up be-friending them so they'd leave you alone, or maybe you'd call in your friends to chase them away.
Siege was supposed to be the hard shard, because when things are hard people have to band together and communities form. Merchants used to understand this better than most, because they were the ones run out of business on the other shards because everything became too easy and anyone could make their own uber-mule to supply their own needs.
But of course everyone who actually cared about what used to make Siege unique are long long gone.
[/ QUOTE ]
Anyone everyone whom actually cared about what used to make Siege unique are long gone as you say I guess,
or they are leaving still, cuz nothing they did or achieved here or tried to do/or do/did here to care or to be of help or service, ever seems to matter to anyone, anyhow, everyone too busy farming or just busy their own items and rubble collecting agendas, to have any time for..community any longer in *itemised uo*
Perhaps if they had felt needed or felt they still had a purpose or reasons to remain here, or even appreciated even by a few here, for what all that they maybe have done here or tried to do, then maybe they would have stuck around perma like, or remained, in this, dwindling population of Siege's 'community'.
oh well
I myself have no mega malls nor even any vendors left here any longer either. I am down to just one remaining house here to warehouse my things.
C
CorwinWE
Guest
It mattered. It matters. You just can't fight inertia.
G
Guest
Guest
Nay, I like it!
A cu-sidhe would only obey if his master had 60+ drooling!
A dragon would only obey if his trainer had 60+ halitosis!
*pictures a new form of game controller that involves blowing into a mouthpiece, and lots of blue-in-the-face tamers, with their dragons standing around helplessly*
And, of course, an orc would only obey if his trainer had 60+ flatulence!
Hmm... where to put the new form of game controller... perhaps not one of my better ideas!
Of course, there are other ways to balance taming and animals.
and
for instance.
+60 body odour to assume lich form!
+60 cowardice to polymorph into a chicken!
Think of the possibilities!
*ahem*
perhaps not.
A cu-sidhe would only obey if his master had 60+ drooling!
A dragon would only obey if his trainer had 60+ halitosis!
*pictures a new form of game controller that involves blowing into a mouthpiece, and lots of blue-in-the-face tamers, with their dragons standing around helplessly*
And, of course, an orc would only obey if his trainer had 60+ flatulence!
Hmm... where to put the new form of game controller... perhaps not one of my better ideas!
Of course, there are other ways to balance taming and animals.
and
for instance.
+60 body odour to assume lich form!
+60 cowardice to polymorph into a chicken!
Think of the possibilities!
*ahem*
perhaps not.
I've gotta say, this is about the worst idea I've ever heard.
Why shouldn't my pet respond to me while naked or in a luck suit? I have a hiryu, so if I need 60 phys resist, he'd never listen to me. And, what for? Because you can't kill a tamer in pvp?
Please be aware that not everything is about you, or pvp.
Goodguy is right though, My pet is worth my one siege bless. That's fair.
Why shouldn't my pet respond to me while naked or in a luck suit? I have a hiryu, so if I need 60 phys resist, he'd never listen to me. And, what for? Because you can't kill a tamer in pvp?
Please be aware that not everything is about you, or pvp.
Goodguy is right though, My pet is worth my one siege bless. That's fair.
G
Guest
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
I've gotta say, this is about the worst idea I've ever heard.
Why shouldn't my pet respond to me while naked or in a luck suit? I have a hiryu, so if I need 60 phys resist, he'd never listen to me. And, what for? Because you can't kill a tamer in pvp?
Please be aware that not everything is about you, or pvp.
Goodguy is right though, My pet is worth my one siege bless. That's fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
I admit I wasnt thinking about farmers or production Shards when I had this idea.
But what if we change it a little bit to something like... You can only target another player with your pets when using such resistances.... ??? That would only work for PvP.... You could still farm naked or with a luck suit...but if you wished to KILL another player, you d need to use those kind of resistances, or your pets wouldnt obey ! Unless of course they attacked you first !!
Got it ?
You can defend yourself with your pets, but you can never initiate an attack with your high end pets without using those ammount of armors...
Is that fair to you ?
Anyway, the blessing on your pets isnt a bad idea either...
I've gotta say, this is about the worst idea I've ever heard.
Why shouldn't my pet respond to me while naked or in a luck suit? I have a hiryu, so if I need 60 phys resist, he'd never listen to me. And, what for? Because you can't kill a tamer in pvp?
Please be aware that not everything is about you, or pvp.
Goodguy is right though, My pet is worth my one siege bless. That's fair.
[/ QUOTE ]
I admit I wasnt thinking about farmers or production Shards when I had this idea.
But what if we change it a little bit to something like... You can only target another player with your pets when using such resistances.... ??? That would only work for PvP.... You could still farm naked or with a luck suit...but if you wished to KILL another player, you d need to use those kind of resistances, or your pets wouldnt obey ! Unless of course they attacked you first !!
Got it ?
You can defend yourself with your pets, but you can never initiate an attack with your high end pets without using those ammount of armors...
Is that fair to you ?
Anyway, the blessing on your pets isnt a bad idea either...
I
imported_Goron
Guest
Do you really die to pets that often? Even with jsv and their stealth dismount all kill ganks I can get away a good amount of the time... you just need to run...
And, I find it funny that you come here complaining about getting killed by something you feel is overpowered; don't you think players in NEW feel you are overpowered? Sorry bud, I feel no pity for you.
And, I find it funny that you come here complaining about getting killed by something you feel is overpowered; don't you think players in NEW feel you are overpowered? Sorry bud, I feel no pity for you.
I
imported_mo'gluk
Guest
I have always said that to balance pets (specifically PvP) you have to bring them in line with other templates and the apparent output.
treat pet commands as spells/specials (ie cost mana)
treat successive commands as an increasing difficulty (either increasing mana cost or if you try to quickly too often to control a pet it wont listen)
treat a petball as the above "commanding of a pet", look at it as a spell/special that is available to tamers (could even make it an equipable item that would force them to hold it there hand... much like a spell book)
the answers are easier than you think, rather than make new rules for them just start applying rules for them the same way rules apply to us. (i would still love to see us be required to have to hold the spellbooks we use to cast for mage spells.)
treat pet commands as spells/specials (ie cost mana)
treat successive commands as an increasing difficulty (either increasing mana cost or if you try to quickly too often to control a pet it wont listen)
treat a petball as the above "commanding of a pet", look at it as a spell/special that is available to tamers (could even make it an equipable item that would force them to hold it there hand... much like a spell book)
the answers are easier than you think, rather than make new rules for them just start applying rules for them the same way rules apply to us. (i would still love to see us be required to have to hold the spellbooks we use to cast for mage spells.)
G
Guest
Guest
Adding strange requirements to command a pet beyond the underlying skills, is not a good solution in my opinion. If you have the skill to control a pet, you should be able to control it, well equipped on your char or in nothing but a death robe with pixel underpants. There was a problem long ago, from what I understand with tamers having gazillions of pets as a sort of army to themselves, so they implemented control slots. Now, the problem is as someone else mentioned, the new pets that came with Samurai Empire and Mondain's Legacy were scaled to the paragons, super bosses, and stuff that came with the expansions for PvM/PvE (it is why those are almost the only pets anyone sees being used now, especially in PvP). It isn't realistic that all that killing power should be focused against players with typically 125 HP max.
Deal with the underlying problem that makes people upset about tamers in PvP, not make up weird constraints on the tamer in using the pet that also would hamper using them as intended in PvM.
-Skylark
Deal with the underlying problem that makes people upset about tamers in PvP, not make up weird constraints on the tamer in using the pet that also would hamper using them as intended in PvM.
-Skylark
I
imported_Magnolia
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Deal with the underlying problem that makes people upset about tamers in PvP, not make up weird constraints on the tamer in using the pet that also would hamper using them as intended in PvM.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are 100 percent right ... and for me is the fact that fighting pets is not fun.. I don't mind how hard it is or that i die more often than not... but for the simple fact it is NOT worth it and thus is NOT so much fun... And when we are not having fun... We stop doing what is not worthwhile and fun... Make it worth our effort... Give us nice benefit from killing something that is so much more powerful than each of us...Give us pleasure in taking it down... there is no pleasure because we get no benefit from it...
This is Siege... GIVE US OUR LOOT!
Deal with the underlying problem that makes people upset about tamers in PvP, not make up weird constraints on the tamer in using the pet that also would hamper using them as intended in PvM.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are 100 percent right ... and for me is the fact that fighting pets is not fun.. I don't mind how hard it is or that i die more often than not... but for the simple fact it is NOT worth it and thus is NOT so much fun... And when we are not having fun... We stop doing what is not worthwhile and fun... Make it worth our effort... Give us nice benefit from killing something that is so much more powerful than each of us...Give us pleasure in taking it down... there is no pleasure because we get no benefit from it...
This is Siege... GIVE US OUR LOOT!
C
CorwinWE
Guest
It used to be that you killed or gated away a pet and then you didn't have to worry about the tamer for a while. In fact the gating away was so devastating to most players, they wouldn't even try to use a pet in a pvp situation. One advantage of dungeon farming was that pets couldn't be gated in a dungeon. What incentive is there now?
When they dumbed this down for trammel tamers, they dumbed my game play down as well. I used to use untrained wyrms so if someone did gate my pet away, I could just log out to free the slot and go tame a replacement. So if someone did gate off my pet, it was followed by down time where I had to run off to a spawn area and do some taming. Of course when they added 120 taming scrolls, what at times took 20 minutes, only took a couple of minutes. To avoid losing my pets I learned to anticipate players casting gates, I dispelled them quickly, and I learned to navigate my pets so they wouldn't walk through them. If I lost a trained pet, it became part of the challenge to follow the gate to see where it was sent to *or* to try to guess or figure it out. Sometimes friends would pm me when they saw one of my pets flapping around. But once pet balls were added... who cares? Just click the ball. No need to use skill/experience/talent/friends/etc.
Making pets the same as other skills just wrapped up in a lizard is a bad approach. There are ways to balance the pros and cons of pets the way they are. There are ways to deal with naked tamers. It just isn't going to happen.
When they dumbed this down for trammel tamers, they dumbed my game play down as well. I used to use untrained wyrms so if someone did gate my pet away, I could just log out to free the slot and go tame a replacement. So if someone did gate off my pet, it was followed by down time where I had to run off to a spawn area and do some taming. Of course when they added 120 taming scrolls, what at times took 20 minutes, only took a couple of minutes. To avoid losing my pets I learned to anticipate players casting gates, I dispelled them quickly, and I learned to navigate my pets so they wouldn't walk through them. If I lost a trained pet, it became part of the challenge to follow the gate to see where it was sent to *or* to try to guess or figure it out. Sometimes friends would pm me when they saw one of my pets flapping around. But once pet balls were added... who cares? Just click the ball. No need to use skill/experience/talent/friends/etc.
Making pets the same as other skills just wrapped up in a lizard is a bad approach. There are ways to balance the pros and cons of pets the way they are. There are ways to deal with naked tamers. It just isn't going to happen.
I
imported_Goron
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
... and for me is the fact that fighting pets is not fun..
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you fight a pet? Maybe this is why all of you complain about tamers so much. You don't realize that killing the tamer pretty much nullifies the pets.
Here is a tip: kill the tamer, not the pet. Only time I ever took on pets was when I had archery on, because I could drop them in five hits, now that I am melee, I just stay away from the pet and try to hit the tamer. if thats not possible, I just walk away. Problem solved.
If you guys are dying to a tamer 1v1, you need help... I SUCK at pvp compared to most people, but pets dont kill me one vs one, I just walk away. easy.
Even if the tamer dismounts me, I can simply walk away, cuz the tamer is on foot too, and unless I am very lagy, its very easy to run from pets.
The only times i get killed by pets is when jsv stealth ganks me. One person dismounts me, and then the tamer keeps pace with me as i try to get away, all the while getting hit by the dismounter. In this situation it is not the pets giving me trouble, it is the group tactics.
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).
... and for me is the fact that fighting pets is not fun..
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you fight a pet? Maybe this is why all of you complain about tamers so much. You don't realize that killing the tamer pretty much nullifies the pets.
Here is a tip: kill the tamer, not the pet. Only time I ever took on pets was when I had archery on, because I could drop them in five hits, now that I am melee, I just stay away from the pet and try to hit the tamer. if thats not possible, I just walk away. Problem solved.
If you guys are dying to a tamer 1v1, you need help... I SUCK at pvp compared to most people, but pets dont kill me one vs one, I just walk away. easy.
Even if the tamer dismounts me, I can simply walk away, cuz the tamer is on foot too, and unless I am very lagy, its very easy to run from pets.
The only times i get killed by pets is when jsv stealth ganks me. One person dismounts me, and then the tamer keeps pace with me as i try to get away, all the while getting hit by the dismounter. In this situation it is not the pets giving me trouble, it is the group tactics.
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).
G
Goodah
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).
[/ QUOTE ]
nuff said!!!
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).
[/ QUOTE ]
nuff said!!!
C
CorwinWE
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).nuff said!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Did they ever put a delay on pet ball usage?
One of the cheaper tactics some tamers used was they would just ride after their target on horseback, while clicking their pet ball, and the pet would appear and attack whoever they were chasing. Repeat-rinse-soak.
But yeah, the hardest players for me to kill where the ones who ran away the second they saw me. That's why I usually fought groups. They'd get more ****y and I could usually take some down before the rest would run away.
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).nuff said!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Did they ever put a delay on pet ball usage?
One of the cheaper tactics some tamers used was they would just ride after their target on horseback, while clicking their pet ball, and the pet would appear and attack whoever they were chasing. Repeat-rinse-soak.
But yeah, the hardest players for me to kill where the ones who ran away the second they saw me. That's why I usually fought groups. They'd get more ****y and I could usually take some down before the rest would run away.
I
imported_Goron
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).nuff said!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Did they ever put a delay on pet ball usage?
One of the cheaper tactics some tamers used was they would just ride after their target on horseback, while clicking their pet ball, and the pet would appear and attack whoever they were chasing. Repeat-rinse-soak.
[/ QUOTE ]
That tactic still works. But if I am mounted I can easily run form the attacking tamer, I have the advantage of choosing directions and can throw them off enough to gain a tile or two distance, making the pet unable to hit me when called in. (And I know other people can do that too, when Goron had stealth/tame people got away all the time).
Like I mentioned though, if the tamer dismounts me I will obviously run slower, BUT, the tamer is dismounted too, and thus it is the same situation as if we were both mounted.
The only times that that tactic works is when combined arms are utilized. One person dismounts, and then the tamer keeps pace mounted, calling in pets.
So again, it goes to the point that it is NOT taming, it is NOT stealth, it is NOT pets, it is NOT petballs that kill you. It is the combination of those, on multiple characters. It is two people (or more) using teamwork and skill to drop an enemy.
<blockquote><hr>
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).nuff said!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Did they ever put a delay on pet ball usage?
One of the cheaper tactics some tamers used was they would just ride after their target on horseback, while clicking their pet ball, and the pet would appear and attack whoever they were chasing. Repeat-rinse-soak.
[/ QUOTE ]
That tactic still works. But if I am mounted I can easily run form the attacking tamer, I have the advantage of choosing directions and can throw them off enough to gain a tile or two distance, making the pet unable to hit me when called in. (And I know other people can do that too, when Goron had stealth/tame people got away all the time).
Like I mentioned though, if the tamer dismounts me I will obviously run slower, BUT, the tamer is dismounted too, and thus it is the same situation as if we were both mounted.
The only times that that tactic works is when combined arms are utilized. One person dismounts, and then the tamer keeps pace mounted, calling in pets.
So again, it goes to the point that it is NOT taming, it is NOT stealth, it is NOT pets, it is NOT petballs that kill you. It is the combination of those, on multiple characters. It is two people (or more) using teamwork and skill to drop an enemy.
I
imported_Magnolia
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
... and for me is the fact that fighting pets is not fun..
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you fight a pet? Maybe this is why all of you complain about tamers so much. You don't realize that killing the tamer pretty much nullifies the pets.
Here is a tip: kill the tamer, not the pet. Only time I ever took on pets was when I had archery on, because I could drop them in five hits, now that I am melee, I just stay away from the pet and try to hit the tamer. if thats not possible, I just walk away. Problem solved.
If you guys are dying to a tamer 1v1, you need help... I SUCK at pvp compared to most people, but pets dont kill me one vs one, I just walk away. easy.
Even if the tamer dismounts me, I can simply walk away, cuz the tamer is on foot too, and unless I am very lagy, its very easy to run from pets.
The only times i get killed by pets is when jsv stealth ganks me. One person dismounts me, and then the tamer keeps pace with me as i try to get away, all the while getting hit by the dismounter. In this situation it is not the pets giving me trouble, it is the group tactics.
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).
[/ QUOTE ]
Of coarse you are right... it is not the tamer/pet 1v1 that is a problem.. I wish... we all wish.. but even then.. it is not worth it and not fun because where is the reward for it? Unless you kill king edward and he is loaded.. but even then it is not the fight that is fun... it is the rare loot of tamers like him...
Idk... obviously nothing will ever changed and everyone will continue following in line of everyone else... blah blah blah.... boring... And we all wonder what happened to Siege and too stupid to get it...
<blockquote><hr>
... and for me is the fact that fighting pets is not fun..
[/ QUOTE ]
Why would you fight a pet? Maybe this is why all of you complain about tamers so much. You don't realize that killing the tamer pretty much nullifies the pets.
Here is a tip: kill the tamer, not the pet. Only time I ever took on pets was when I had archery on, because I could drop them in five hits, now that I am melee, I just stay away from the pet and try to hit the tamer. if thats not possible, I just walk away. Problem solved.
If you guys are dying to a tamer 1v1, you need help... I SUCK at pvp compared to most people, but pets dont kill me one vs one, I just walk away. easy.
Even if the tamer dismounts me, I can simply walk away, cuz the tamer is on foot too, and unless I am very lagy, its very easy to run from pets.
The only times i get killed by pets is when jsv stealth ganks me. One person dismounts me, and then the tamer keeps pace with me as i try to get away, all the while getting hit by the dismounter. In this situation it is not the pets giving me trouble, it is the group tactics.
You people need to all wake up and realize that pets are not the golden problem. its teamwork and combined arms thats killing you (again, unless u suck and it is indeed lone tamers killing you).
[/ QUOTE ]
Of coarse you are right... it is not the tamer/pet 1v1 that is a problem.. I wish... we all wish.. but even then.. it is not worth it and not fun because where is the reward for it? Unless you kill king edward and he is loaded.. but even then it is not the fight that is fun... it is the rare loot of tamers like him...
Idk... obviously nothing will ever changed and everyone will continue following in line of everyone else... blah blah blah.... boring... And we all wonder what happened to Siege and too stupid to get it...
C
CorwinWE
Guest
You forgot to add then, that it also involves having an exceptional connection and also assumes the tamer doesn't have stun or para blow.
I'm trying hard not to refute what you're saying since I don't play anymore, but my impression was things had only gotten much worse since then. But back when I played, there still was an advantage since most players used ethereal mounts and I could get back on my nightmare before they could get back on their ethereal.
Some got away in a 1v1 situation, but plenty did not. I know I always watched our for hidden tamers in likely trap spots, because escape was no sure thing when two high powered trained pets got the jump on you when you were on foot. Back then we still had inviso items, though. Very handy ...
One constant about taming, is there were always ways to take the twinkage to a higher-level. I used to hold back and not do everything I knew how to do. Just like any templates, tamers don't improve and become more efficient unless they feel a need or they're challenged. For instance, I didn't take advantage of the lance-dismount when it came out, but when I got tired of watching everyone run away from me; I not only learned how to do it but when they tried to nerf it by making it so you had to be dismounted, I put together the necessary macros so I could attempt a dismount and almost instantly be re-mounted. Balanced armor suits were rare and it was a slaughter.
But most tamers (like most players) are lazy and are content with the cheap kills and don't really bother to learn all what they can really do.
I'm trying hard not to refute what you're saying since I don't play anymore, but my impression was things had only gotten much worse since then. But back when I played, there still was an advantage since most players used ethereal mounts and I could get back on my nightmare before they could get back on their ethereal.
Some got away in a 1v1 situation, but plenty did not. I know I always watched our for hidden tamers in likely trap spots, because escape was no sure thing when two high powered trained pets got the jump on you when you were on foot. Back then we still had inviso items, though. Very handy ...
One constant about taming, is there were always ways to take the twinkage to a higher-level. I used to hold back and not do everything I knew how to do. Just like any templates, tamers don't improve and become more efficient unless they feel a need or they're challenged. For instance, I didn't take advantage of the lance-dismount when it came out, but when I got tired of watching everyone run away from me; I not only learned how to do it but when they tried to nerf it by making it so you had to be dismounted, I put together the necessary macros so I could attempt a dismount and almost instantly be re-mounted. Balanced armor suits were rare and it was a slaughter.
But most tamers (like most players) are lazy and are content with the cheap kills and don't really bother to learn all what they can really do.
I
imported_Goron
Guest
Magnolia, if it is not worth it to kill a tamer, then why attack one?
If the tamer attacks you, then why fight? why not just run?
If the tamer attacks you, then why fight? why not just run?
I
imported_Goron
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
You forgot to add then, that it also involves having an exceptional connection
[/ QUOTE ]I actually did mention you can't be laggy to run...
<blockquote><hr>
and also assumes the tamer doesn't have stun or para blow.
[/ QUOTE ]True, but I honestly have never been stunned or para'd by a tamer. I don't know any that do that. Verum is the only person I can think of right now that does it, but he is not tamer (he rolls with them tho, which gets back to my combined arms statement).
<blockquote><hr>
I'm trying hard not to refute what you're saying since I don't play anymore, but my impression was things had only gotten much worse since then. But back when I played, there still was an advantage since most players used ethereal mounts and I could get back on my nightmare before they could get back on their ethereal.
[/ QUOTE ] This is just those player's faults for using ethys... thats all. Easy to fix, ride a real horse. Then we both have to wait 5 seconds to remount, instantly.
<blockquote><hr>
Some got away in a 1v1 situation, but plenty did not. I know I always watched our for hidden tamers in likely trap spots, because escape was no sure thing when two high powered trained pets got the jump on you when you were on foot. Back then we still had inviso items, though. Very handy ...
[/ QUOTE ]why be on foot? that is just asking for trouble, tamer or not.
<blockquote><hr>
But most tamers (like most players) are lazy and are content with the cheap kills and don't really bother to learn all what they can really do.
[/ QUOTE ]I agree 100%, but the key to what you wrote is the (like most players) part. All of the complainers are too lazy to change their play a little to best the tamers. The tamers are that little bit at higher potential than the complainers, and the complainers are too stupid to adapt. Just like they refuse to adapt to stealthers. Stealth is useless if someone has tracking. thats one skill to nullify two (hide stealth).
You forgot to add then, that it also involves having an exceptional connection
[/ QUOTE ]I actually did mention you can't be laggy to run...
<blockquote><hr>
and also assumes the tamer doesn't have stun or para blow.
[/ QUOTE ]True, but I honestly have never been stunned or para'd by a tamer. I don't know any that do that. Verum is the only person I can think of right now that does it, but he is not tamer (he rolls with them tho, which gets back to my combined arms statement).
<blockquote><hr>
I'm trying hard not to refute what you're saying since I don't play anymore, but my impression was things had only gotten much worse since then. But back when I played, there still was an advantage since most players used ethereal mounts and I could get back on my nightmare before they could get back on their ethereal.
[/ QUOTE ] This is just those player's faults for using ethys... thats all. Easy to fix, ride a real horse. Then we both have to wait 5 seconds to remount, instantly.
<blockquote><hr>
Some got away in a 1v1 situation, but plenty did not. I know I always watched our for hidden tamers in likely trap spots, because escape was no sure thing when two high powered trained pets got the jump on you when you were on foot. Back then we still had inviso items, though. Very handy ...
[/ QUOTE ]why be on foot? that is just asking for trouble, tamer or not.
<blockquote><hr>
But most tamers (like most players) are lazy and are content with the cheap kills and don't really bother to learn all what they can really do.
[/ QUOTE ]I agree 100%, but the key to what you wrote is the (like most players) part. All of the complainers are too lazy to change their play a little to best the tamers. The tamers are that little bit at higher potential than the complainers, and the complainers are too stupid to adapt. Just like they refuse to adapt to stealthers. Stealth is useless if someone has tracking. thats one skill to nullify two (hide stealth).
I
imported_Magnolia
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Magnolia, if it is not worth it to kill a tamer, then why attack one?
If the tamer attacks you, then why fight? why not just run?
[/ QUOTE ]
I hate to run hahaha... damn it i really do? But i'm just telling you why it is not fun for me... and i'm not unusual... You can play any template you want... but there are reactions and consequenses... This is old stuff... been said and been done... and redone and redone and blah blah blah. Not personal... don't take it personal that I don't like fighting tamers with pets... Just look around and see cause and affect... and if that is ok with you? then that is you... I don't have to agree.. and again I tell you my disagreement is not personal nor does it affect how i like or dislike someone....
Magnolia, if it is not worth it to kill a tamer, then why attack one?
If the tamer attacks you, then why fight? why not just run?
[/ QUOTE ]
I hate to run hahaha... damn it i really do? But i'm just telling you why it is not fun for me... and i'm not unusual... You can play any template you want... but there are reactions and consequenses... This is old stuff... been said and been done... and redone and redone and blah blah blah. Not personal... don't take it personal that I don't like fighting tamers with pets... Just look around and see cause and affect... and if that is ok with you? then that is you... I don't have to agree.. and again I tell you my disagreement is not personal nor does it affect how i like or dislike someone....
I
imported_Mr. Sly
Guest
what r some ways u can adapt to killing tamers im not saying there are none just wondering what they would be.. i just stay hidden till they are at low health...like most my kills.
I
imported_Krystal
Guest
my idea:
-unbond all pets. if u want to keep a pet forever then u need to pbd it!
-pets are as pose to assist their owner, not do all the work. instead of making monsters harder, make these tamed animals weaker! if a dog can f up a ancient dragon, then how is a pvper gonna mess with the dog.
i believe pets should not be in pvp. but since that wont change. they really need to be made weaker:/ half the time i die, the tamer don't even know it! cause i die 4 screens away from flamestrikes still going off on me
-unbond all pets. if u want to keep a pet forever then u need to pbd it!
-pets are as pose to assist their owner, not do all the work. instead of making monsters harder, make these tamed animals weaker! if a dog can f up a ancient dragon, then how is a pvper gonna mess with the dog.
i believe pets should not be in pvp. but since that wont change. they really need to be made weaker:/ half the time i die, the tamer don't even know it! cause i die 4 screens away from flamestrikes still going off on me
I
imported_Goron
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
if a dog can f up a ancient dragon, then how is a pvper gonna mess with the dog.
[/ QUOTE ]
my lil xbow could drop a dog in half a dozen hits... just keep distance and lead it away from the tamer.
Even after switching to swords, I am still able to take on tamers 1v1, I dropped some JSV at oni's pretty easy. He all killed me, I lead dog away a little, when he tried to bring it back I was able to target him, he had to re-invis, letting me just lead dog again. with dog off screen, tamer=dead meat. Had i been rolling with archery i woulda just killed dog, then killed tamer. simple. Oh gawd no, if tamer stayed hidden: conflag pots! easy.
Again, I reiterate that tamers, pets, petballs, hide, stealth, dismount individually are not powerful. it requires a combination of skills. Often the combination must be on different characters to become effective, and then it is no longer the skills that are an issue, it is the tactics and teamwork.
I mean really, ask yourself how many times you have died 1v1 to a tamer (without stealth). probably very few times. Thus taming is not an issue.
Now consider the number of times you have died 1v1 to a stealth tamer, probably many more times, thus a combination of skills used well becomes the issue. Can you counter the problem? yes, detect hidden, yes, stay mobile, yes, conflag pots.
Now consider how many times you die to a stealth tamer and a stealth dismounter: tons of times (at least me). The problem is in the teamwork. Can you counter the problem? yes: roll with a friend and use teamwork yourself. And if anyone comes saying: "waaa, but i shouldnt have to play with someone else to win 1v2 everytime!!!!" - all I gotta say to that is: lol
if a dog can f up a ancient dragon, then how is a pvper gonna mess with the dog.
[/ QUOTE ]
my lil xbow could drop a dog in half a dozen hits... just keep distance and lead it away from the tamer.
Even after switching to swords, I am still able to take on tamers 1v1, I dropped some JSV at oni's pretty easy. He all killed me, I lead dog away a little, when he tried to bring it back I was able to target him, he had to re-invis, letting me just lead dog again. with dog off screen, tamer=dead meat. Had i been rolling with archery i woulda just killed dog, then killed tamer. simple. Oh gawd no, if tamer stayed hidden: conflag pots! easy.
Again, I reiterate that tamers, pets, petballs, hide, stealth, dismount individually are not powerful. it requires a combination of skills. Often the combination must be on different characters to become effective, and then it is no longer the skills that are an issue, it is the tactics and teamwork.
I mean really, ask yourself how many times you have died 1v1 to a tamer (without stealth). probably very few times. Thus taming is not an issue.
Now consider the number of times you have died 1v1 to a stealth tamer, probably many more times, thus a combination of skills used well becomes the issue. Can you counter the problem? yes, detect hidden, yes, stay mobile, yes, conflag pots.
Now consider how many times you die to a stealth tamer and a stealth dismounter: tons of times (at least me). The problem is in the teamwork. Can you counter the problem? yes: roll with a friend and use teamwork yourself. And if anyone comes saying: "waaa, but i shouldnt have to play with someone else to win 1v2 everytime!!!!" - all I gotta say to that is: lol
M
majorwoo
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
one quick and easy step to get rid of dismounters is to do away with ALL mounts, no horses no ninja forms just everyone on foot running same pace, as for the tamers, the pets wouldnt be so bad if they didnt insta leap on you everytime they said All Kill, pets should walk slowly toward you, to give you a chance to run away, as they are currently they are super fast moving. If tamers pets were slowed down to a walking pace tamers would not be such a great threat i think.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe just remove mounted combat? Wow seems to have controlled that by your inability to respond while mounted. If you stand there and die on your that's your own fault - but either run away mounted from someone on foot or dismount and fight.
Of course, this just might result in all reds trying to be dismounters so the blues can't just run away...
one quick and easy step to get rid of dismounters is to do away with ALL mounts, no horses no ninja forms just everyone on foot running same pace, as for the tamers, the pets wouldnt be so bad if they didnt insta leap on you everytime they said All Kill, pets should walk slowly toward you, to give you a chance to run away, as they are currently they are super fast moving. If tamers pets were slowed down to a walking pace tamers would not be such a great threat i think.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe just remove mounted combat? Wow seems to have controlled that by your inability to respond while mounted. If you stand there and die on your that's your own fault - but either run away mounted from someone on foot or dismount and fight.
Of course, this just might result in all reds trying to be dismounters so the blues can't just run away...
C
CorwinWE
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
True, but I honestly have never been stunned or para'd by a tamer. I don't know any that do that. Verum is the only person I can think of right now that does it, but he is not tamer (he rolls with them tho, which gets back to my combined arms statement).
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably because in most cases it's overkill and there are other places to put the skill points. There are still plenty of fish left in the sea, even if a couple manage to get away.
<blockquote><hr>
This is just those player's faults for using ethys... thats all. Easy to fix, ride a real horse. Then we both have to wait 5 seconds to remount, instantly.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thorough and patient. I'd make sure to kill the other player's mount first even if it meant giving them a chance to get away. At the very least I had the pleasure of eliminating their butt ugly swamp dragon or beetle and making the land a little more pleasant. If they decided to come back, well, rinse-repeat-soak. Some folks considered me a very griefy SOB, but setting people (or even entire guilds) up for the kill is all part of the battle plan.
<blockquote><hr>
why be on foot? that is just asking for trouble, tamer or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I didn't travel around on foot, but blue twink tamers liked to cycle through the moongates while hidden; and red twink tamers would camp the areas outside the moongates while hidden. Their first move was always to release a pre-casted bola, so you were always on foot. If I was on my tamer when this happened, well, it was sort of like an old western quick draw where I'd try to return fire and launch my pets at them, while trying to deal with their pets on me. If I was anticipating the attack and had pre-cast para, para-field, or inviso - or just had an inviso item, then usually things went my way - but it was always annoying and messy. Especially around moonglow where they could rez and re-attack so quickly. Avoiding lousy fighting areas like moonglow or luna is a smart response, but as the shard population dried up the alternative was often just logging out.
<blockquote><hr>
I agree 100%, but the key to what you wrote is the (like most players) part. All of the complainers are too lazy to change their play a little to best the tamers. The tamers are that little bit at higher potential than the complainers, and the complainers are too stupid to adapt. Just like they refuse to adapt to stealthers. Stealth is useless if someone has tracking. thats one skill to nullify two (hide stealth).
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but the game is not meant to cater to power users with perfect connections or they wouldn't have dumbed it down so many times. It's a lot less frustrating to play the game when there's a reasonable counter to most attacks and insta-kill and insta-escape do not exist. Also a lot of things are problematic on Siege because of the rule differences and/or the lack of population. Part of that dumbing down process was an attempt to make more templates playable, but there are a lot of templates that should be reserved for the power user who can really figure out how to overcome the drawbacks in order to take advantage of the power. As a pvp tamer, the last thing I wanted to see was a bunch of twinks taking up taming because they could click "all kill" and get ph@t l3wtz.
I can think of numerous examples where players took uncommon templates and learned to become very effective with them even back when most players thought it was impossible. I knew a player who ran a tank alchemist (that's a warrior with alchemy and poisoning) and hence could make dp on the fly. He did that long before there were bonuses for having alchemy OR having poisoning and yet just slaughtered people by always having all the potions he could use. When he killed someone he'd just turn their reagents in to more potions. Fast forward a bit, and lots of players have alchemy for the pot bonus and/or pot tossing, and lots of players have poisoning for that bonus. Suddenly 1/2 the shard is making alchy mages and dp dexxers and abusing the heck out of it.
Balance is a fine line, and unfortunately EA always overpowered new skills/abilities so players would gravitate towards the template of the day.
True, but I honestly have never been stunned or para'd by a tamer. I don't know any that do that. Verum is the only person I can think of right now that does it, but he is not tamer (he rolls with them tho, which gets back to my combined arms statement).
[/ QUOTE ]
Probably because in most cases it's overkill and there are other places to put the skill points. There are still plenty of fish left in the sea, even if a couple manage to get away.
<blockquote><hr>
This is just those player's faults for using ethys... thats all. Easy to fix, ride a real horse. Then we both have to wait 5 seconds to remount, instantly.
[/ QUOTE ]
I was thorough and patient. I'd make sure to kill the other player's mount first even if it meant giving them a chance to get away. At the very least I had the pleasure of eliminating their butt ugly swamp dragon or beetle and making the land a little more pleasant. If they decided to come back, well, rinse-repeat-soak. Some folks considered me a very griefy SOB, but setting people (or even entire guilds) up for the kill is all part of the battle plan.
<blockquote><hr>
why be on foot? that is just asking for trouble, tamer or not.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I didn't travel around on foot, but blue twink tamers liked to cycle through the moongates while hidden; and red twink tamers would camp the areas outside the moongates while hidden. Their first move was always to release a pre-casted bola, so you were always on foot. If I was on my tamer when this happened, well, it was sort of like an old western quick draw where I'd try to return fire and launch my pets at them, while trying to deal with their pets on me. If I was anticipating the attack and had pre-cast para, para-field, or inviso - or just had an inviso item, then usually things went my way - but it was always annoying and messy. Especially around moonglow where they could rez and re-attack so quickly. Avoiding lousy fighting areas like moonglow or luna is a smart response, but as the shard population dried up the alternative was often just logging out.
<blockquote><hr>
I agree 100%, but the key to what you wrote is the (like most players) part. All of the complainers are too lazy to change their play a little to best the tamers. The tamers are that little bit at higher potential than the complainers, and the complainers are too stupid to adapt. Just like they refuse to adapt to stealthers. Stealth is useless if someone has tracking. thats one skill to nullify two (hide stealth).
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but the game is not meant to cater to power users with perfect connections or they wouldn't have dumbed it down so many times. It's a lot less frustrating to play the game when there's a reasonable counter to most attacks and insta-kill and insta-escape do not exist. Also a lot of things are problematic on Siege because of the rule differences and/or the lack of population. Part of that dumbing down process was an attempt to make more templates playable, but there are a lot of templates that should be reserved for the power user who can really figure out how to overcome the drawbacks in order to take advantage of the power. As a pvp tamer, the last thing I wanted to see was a bunch of twinks taking up taming because they could click "all kill" and get ph@t l3wtz.
I can think of numerous examples where players took uncommon templates and learned to become very effective with them even back when most players thought it was impossible. I knew a player who ran a tank alchemist (that's a warrior with alchemy and poisoning) and hence could make dp on the fly. He did that long before there were bonuses for having alchemy OR having poisoning and yet just slaughtered people by always having all the potions he could use. When he killed someone he'd just turn their reagents in to more potions. Fast forward a bit, and lots of players have alchemy for the pot bonus and/or pot tossing, and lots of players have poisoning for that bonus. Suddenly 1/2 the shard is making alchy mages and dp dexxers and abusing the heck out of it.
Balance is a fine line, and unfortunately EA always overpowered new skills/abilities so players would gravitate towards the template of the day.
G
Guest
Guest
I got it this one is great your all going to really like it. convince them to stop playing those characters. im pretty sure that almost every single guild is represented here with atleast 1 person that doesnt like stealth tamers.
So heres what you do; Just start bagging on them constantly. I mean really lay into them and their tactics.
Lots and LOTS of all kill references, you know that one gets em really worked up.
and just general bashing of them, the only solution is to get them to make a different char.
So heres what you do; Just start bagging on them constantly. I mean really lay into them and their tactics.
Lots and LOTS of all kill references, you know that one gets em really worked up.
and just general bashing of them, the only solution is to get them to make a different char.
C
CorwinWE
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
and just general bashing of them, the only solution is to get them to make a different char.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good luck with that. If the shard had enough people to enforce something like that, the pvp wouldn't be in such a state where everyone is trying to cheap shot everyone else.
When I would go out with a group and there was a chance we'd be able to find something other than a gank, I'd leave my pets in the stable and fight 5x, but you need something resembling a healthy pvp population.
and just general bashing of them, the only solution is to get them to make a different char.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good luck with that. If the shard had enough people to enforce something like that, the pvp wouldn't be in such a state where everyone is trying to cheap shot everyone else.
When I would go out with a group and there was a chance we'd be able to find something other than a gank, I'd leave my pets in the stable and fight 5x, but you need something resembling a healthy pvp population.
K
Kat SP
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
And when we are not having fun... We stop doing what is not worthwhile and fun... Make it worth our effort... Give us nice benefit from killing something that is so much more powerful than each of us...Give us pleasure in taking it down... there is no pleasure because we get no benefit from it...
This is Siege... GIVE US OUR LOOT!
[/ QUOTE ]
So you DO want to be a PvMer?!
And when we are not having fun... We stop doing what is not worthwhile and fun... Make it worth our effort... Give us nice benefit from killing something that is so much more powerful than each of us...Give us pleasure in taking it down... there is no pleasure because we get no benefit from it...
This is Siege... GIVE US OUR LOOT!
[/ QUOTE ]
So you DO want to be a PvMer?!
I
imported_Magnolia
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
<blockquote><hr>
And when we are not having fun... We stop doing what is not worthwhile and fun... Make it worth our effort... Give us nice benefit from killing something that is so much more powerful than each of us...Give us pleasure in taking it down... there is no pleasure because we get no benefit from it...
This is Siege... GIVE US OUR LOOT!
[/ QUOTE ]
So you DO want to be a PvMer?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Never said I didn't hahah... but I only like it when there is a purpose ... a goal... worth it...
I pvm when I need gold for regs for pots... I pvm if I'm after a certain kind of weapon or pvping precious jewelry... I pvm for resources like leather... It is necessary because of supporting pvping for me and for my guild... I've done it since time began.. Ask anyone that has ever been in my guilds... I've help supply for the pvping for those that needed it... and I do it through PvMing. I'm sure there are Siege people out there that know this about me.. Just not something we think about or talk about..
<blockquote><hr>
And when we are not having fun... We stop doing what is not worthwhile and fun... Make it worth our effort... Give us nice benefit from killing something that is so much more powerful than each of us...Give us pleasure in taking it down... there is no pleasure because we get no benefit from it...
This is Siege... GIVE US OUR LOOT!
[/ QUOTE ]
So you DO want to be a PvMer?!
[/ QUOTE ]
Never said I didn't hahah... but I only like it when there is a purpose ... a goal... worth it...
I pvm when I need gold for regs for pots... I pvm if I'm after a certain kind of weapon or pvping precious jewelry... I pvm for resources like leather... It is necessary because of supporting pvping for me and for my guild... I've done it since time began.. Ask anyone that has ever been in my guilds... I've help supply for the pvping for those that needed it... and I do it through PvMing. I'm sure there are Siege people out there that know this about me.. Just not something we think about or talk about..
R
Repeat
Guest
Stealth and Animal Forms are the problem, NOT the tamers.
M
Masumatek
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
Stealth and Animal Forms are the problem, NOT the tamers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Animal forms, smoke bombs, dismount, and others are all problems...yes...and problems that significantly boost the power of the tamer.
If such things didn't exist?....Taming would still be overpowered.
Stealth and Animal Forms are the problem, NOT the tamers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Animal forms, smoke bombs, dismount, and others are all problems...yes...and problems that significantly boost the power of the tamer.
If such things didn't exist?....Taming would still be overpowered.
R
Repeat
Guest
Mas, you won't be happy until we're all fighting with sticks and rocks.
The only further restriction they should put on tamers is the requirement of Vet. Most of the problem tamers don't even have a way to heal their pets.
I think if they added the requirement of having Vet equal to the animals taming level in order to heal the pet would further help to eliminate all the pseudo tamers leaving only real tamers who have devoted 300+ points to their profesion.
The only further restriction they should put on tamers is the requirement of Vet. Most of the problem tamers don't even have a way to heal their pets.
I think if they added the requirement of having Vet equal to the animals taming level in order to heal the pet would further help to eliminate all the pseudo tamers leaving only real tamers who have devoted 300+ points to their profesion.
C
CorwinWE
Guest
<blockquote><hr>
The only further restriction they should put on tamers is the requirement of Vet. Most of the problem tamers don't even have a way to heal their pets.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would just cost them the use of a skill, it wouldn't make them any less annoying. In fact it would make them more annoying since they could just grab some bandaids, rez their pet, and start sicking it back on players.
A tamer without vet has to at least swap it out at the stables or take it to someone who can rez.
Pet bonding should be removed from siege ...
The only further restriction they should put on tamers is the requirement of Vet. Most of the problem tamers don't even have a way to heal their pets.
[/ QUOTE ]
That would just cost them the use of a skill, it wouldn't make them any less annoying. In fact it would make them more annoying since they could just grab some bandaids, rez their pet, and start sicking it back on players.
A tamer without vet has to at least swap it out at the stables or take it to someone who can rez.
Pet bonding should be removed from siege ...