I am very, very disappointed...

[WarderDragon]

Greetings, my friends.

Something has been really bugging me for the past couple of hours (twelve to be precise), so I wanted to see what everyone else thought. I already know what the members of my alliance think (universal horror), and I am sure they will be posting their thoughts very soon.

I don't know about you all, but I was rather disappointed following last evenings shardwide storyline event. No, I am not talking about the event itself. I thought EM Seppo, EM Pallando, and the team did an excellent job.

No, I was absolutely horrified at just how rude and completely obscene the members of our shard were yesterday afternoon. From claiming to "check the dragons prostate" (amongst other areas), to spewing obscenities that are a bannable offense (including some knucklehead who kept spamming the infamous R-word in reference to Casca), I was so disgusted that I wanted to leave. Honestly, not only could the people who actually come for the storyline and the roleplaying not even hear the dragons through your lewd and disgusting commentary, causing many of the roleplayers in attendance to finally give up and depart; we also quickly came to the realization that it was those idiots who are, in the end, going to have profited from this event.

To top that off, we actually had folks in attendance from both Chesapeake and Pacific, who got to see first hand just how mature the folks on our shard are.

If you were one of the individuals who was responsible for throwing out such obscenities (you know who you are), please knock it off. Thank you.

Nicholas the Old

 

[Harlan]

I got your back ol'man. Maybe if we are lucky they (EM's) will find a way to stop the children from actin up. I was never really the one to RP or even care for the story line but after Casca's call to west brit bank I caught up on the storyline and you already know the rest of that story. There was enough rudness that my wife almost missed the red dragon. The only thing about it is no matter what is done there will always be THOSE people around but I didn't expect that many here on Baja. Well there was my 2 cents do what you will with it.
Z

 

[Mama Faith]

I hadn't even realized there was an event yesterday and after reading this, I'm glad I didn't. All of us are used to a little crass commentary at these events, now and then, but this one must've gotten out of hand.

 

[WildStar]

/signed Nicholas

We have all come to expect some bad behavior at events but last night it was too much. It made it impossible to follow what was going on and some of the comments made were completely unneccesary and throughly disgusting.

I would not mind being squelched by the EM's during events like this.

WildStar
Grand Duchess
Kingdom of Dawn

 

[Sara Of Baja]

I hadn't even realized there was an event yesterday and after reading this, I'm glad I didn't. All of us are used to a little crass commentary at these events, now and then, but this one must've gotten out of hand.

It was a bit on the unruly side ... going through some of my screenshots this morning, I'm finding I'm discarding most due to language and comments that are just too bad to even try to edit out.

 

[Ceno of MT]

Aye I totally agree with Nicholas and the others!
I was taking screen shots left and right (got a good 44 shots) and finally just gave up trying because there were SO many people shouting stupid stuff.
I may say some silly and stupid things but sheesh! I know when theres a time and place! (plus I dont say rude stuff like people were last night)

I actually did end up leaving because here we had DRAGONS TALKING and not a single person could hear what they were saying! I caught a few bits of what they said and it wasnt nice because it was all about them telling players to pretty much stop being jerks.

I can bet you 100 bucks that there was suppose to be more to the story line with the dragons but everyone had to mess it up, with my work schedule I dont get to attend a lot of these and was sad to see so many people messing it all up and ruin my game play
:gun:

 

[Xel The Wanderer]

Dang, I didn't see these comments! I was going back and forth between the grill and the computer! If any of you said anything to me and I didn't respond, please forgive me for I had a mission with the BBQ Gods *cue celestial light and disembodied voices singing "Aaaaaaaaaah!"*. It does sound unfortunate, but there's always going to be the entire spectrum of personalities at these type of events. I'm patiently waiting for the write-up because I know I missed a good chunk of story, and I'm guilty for being a story junkie.

 

[SuperKen]

Wow, was it really that bad?

I've always been proud of Baja for its maturity. I've been to other shards where the PvP guilds there constantly talk trash and there is NO RESPECT whatsoever. The mind games they play are also ridiculous; it really makes you wonder what sort of childish enjoyment they get from it.

I know I can only really speak from a PvP point of view, but Baja's PvPers have time and time again shown what class they have compared to other shards. Yes, there's fierce competition at times, and I won't say there's a complete absence of trash talking, but it's all done with the knowledge that your opponents on Baja are mature individuals who are here to have fun.

With the exception of one crass individual who felt like he had a point to prove in spying on other guilds, I'd wholeheartedly support and congratulate Baja's PvPers on their maturity and class.

I'm a bit ashamed to hear that we can't show the same level of class in our RP events; and even more ashamed that Baja citizens can't realize that these events and other shard events are organized by caring individuals whose only goal is to create enjoyment for others.

I wasn't at the event, but if those of you who attended the event saw my guildmembers acting in such a way, please PM me and I will look into it immediately. Thank you.

 

[Millie]

Having come for a shard where the people were 300 times worse than the people last night. I can say it was mild.. I also so can tell you that we came to Baja because of the maturity here and to have fun. I am just sickened that the younger immature crowd has started filtering to Baja. It's a sad day for Baja but one that can not be helped. As long as they keep pushing to make Uo a tween pvp game, instead of the role playing game it is, there will always be this kind of Player.

 

[Kurpur]

OOC:

To the EMs, I really do wish to apologise for the inconsiderate and immature actions that interrupted your storyline. I thank you for taking the time to get this storyline together and the time you took to indulge us. I for one, and I truely love interacting with your characters and being able to interact with your storylines. I do hope that last nights display by a few will not tarnish what you think of us that wanted to interact and to enjoy your storyline.

EMs please stop reading here!

For the bunch that could not help but to display how childish and insensitive you are. UP YOURS! YOU ARE NOT GOING TO RUIN IT FOR OTHERS! THERE ARE OTHER WAYS TO HAVE THESE EVENTS THAT CAN EXCLUDE YOU!

Yes, I do feel a little better now!

I do wish we could ask the EMs to hold these events in Fel so as there would be ways to deal with these children. Granted I may not be the worlds best or even a little good at PvP but I could have died knowing I took out some of my anguish at people that probably still eat with their fingers and have their diapers changed by some unlucky soul! Momma always told me what goes around will come around, so remember that when your children act like you because you do not know how to teach any better!

As for some of the posts I have read on boards about last night.

The Ems know that this game is about what pixel candy. We and I do mean everybody, loves getting pixel candy. Be it you want to find someone to sell it to or if you would love to display an item, it is all about pixel candy. Yes it is great that people got stuff last night and if they wanted to sell, display, showoff, trash, trade or just possess something, then hey I am glad you got something. I too am a little disappointed that I didn't get anything but hey it is a game, plus if I want it bad enough I'll spend pixels to buy it.

 

[WarderDragon]

I got your back ol'man. Maybe if we are lucky they (EM's) will find a way to stop the children from actin up. I was never really the one to RP or even care for the story line but after Casca's call to west brit bank I caught up on the storyline and you already know the rest of that story. There was enough rudness that my wife almost missed the red dragon. The only thing about it is no matter what is done there will always be THOSE people around but I didn't expect that many here on Baja. Well there was my 2 cents do what you will with it.
Z

Thank you, Harlan. *Smiles*

I am so stoked to see that there is a resurging interest in roleplaying, the storyline, and the community as a whole. It is something that used to be very popular on our shard - with guilds like the Kingdom of Dawn, the Dark Tower, and the Golden Knights waging battles against one another and making the headlines regularly - but it has been sorely lacking in the past couple of years. I hope to see more interest in the weeks, months, and years ahead.

Most of all, I look forward to more fun and interaction between the Baja Roleplayers Alliance and the Rebel's of Unity. *Bows*

I would not mind being squelched by the EM's during events like this.

I hate to say it, but something like this might have to happen should the knuckleheads on our shard keep this up.

Personally, I would absolutely hate for this to happen. I love the interaction at these events, especially during the Casca speeches. To have folks actually want to take an active role in the storyline, whether it be calling for the downfall of Lord Casca or telling Lady Aino to stand firm (a shout out to Oriana *Smiles*), is absolutely awesome to watch. It reminds me of my time on Siege, where the Wakayama Clan (who didn't roleplay at all until then) began a war with some of the roleplaying guilds and started a storyline that everyone got involved in. It would be tragic to loose that interaction - such as Lord Casca and Grand Duchess WildStar shooting glares back and fourth - but if some of these griefers can't grow up, what else can we do?

Its hard, because these events are the first bone thrown to the roleplayers of our shards in a long time. It belongs to our community as a whole, and is a great way to get some roleplaying on our shard, and a couple people are taking that away from us all.

I may say some silly and stupid things but sheesh! I know when theres a time and place! (plus I dont say rude stuff like people were last night)

You're absolutely right, Ceno.

I don't want to sound like a killjoy here. I want people to have fun, and being silly is the spice that makes our community so awesome. If we did not have so many silly, humorous and lighthearted folks on our shard, I think I would cry of boredom. We have some real comedians, and I wouldn't trade you guys for another other. I love you guys.

Hell, between yourself, Zackarias, and I; we've become our alliances resident comedians (at the poor duchesses expense). *Chuckles* Yet, the three of us know that there is a time and a place for it. There is also that people should never cross. We might have some raunchy jokes now and then (Xel would love our alliance chat), but we know what line not to cross and when.

Some of the folks yesterday afternoon clearly don't posess that class, and don't know where to draw the line. Some of the things said were absolutely offensive to me.

I've always been proud of Baja for its maturity. I've been to other shards where the PvP guilds there constantly talk trash and there is NO RESPECT whatsoever. The mind games they play are also ridiculous; it really makes you wonder what sort of childish enjoyment they get from it.

I know I can only really speak from a PvP point of view, but Baja's PvPers have time and time again shown what class they have compared to other shards. Yes, there's fierce competition at times, and I won't say there's a complete absence of trash talking, but it's all done with the knowledge that your opponents on Baja are mature individuals who are here to have fun.

I completely agree with you, SuperKen. Some smack talking is to be expected (trash talking and taunting your enemy has happened since the beginning of time between enemy warriors, in sports, and so fourth), but time and time again Baja's PvP community has shown its class and its honor. They are still player-killers, but you guys are lightyears different from the stereotype.

I don't have any names right off the top of my head (although someone I talked to last evening said they are going to have a "chat" with one of their buddies), but for the most part, it wasn't any one group or body of individuals. In fact, it was more or less your typical Trammel-folk that were spewing these obscenities.

 

[Millie]

In fact, it was more or less your typical Trammel-folk that were spewing these obscenities.

This I have to admit I'm guilt of this to some extent . I said a very bad word In the Cave after getting killed the 5th time. I thought I was broadcasting in guild chat to my friend and husband. I did however apologize to the ghosts around me that heard me. I'm far from perfect.

 

[BajaElladan]

Folks,

I have taken longer than some others before posting about this. I have only two regrets about the Fire and Ice event from yesterday.

First, I regret that any shard (but especially Baja) has players who simply have NO creativity, NO civility, and NO decency. What should have been a fun and interesting event, was greatly diminished by a handful of players proving they have NOTHING useful to contribute to a MMORPG.

Second, I regret that ANY items were given out at this or any event. It is clear to me that incentivizing events with individual item rewards contributes greatly to attracting players who BOTH enjoy misbehaving AND benefitting while they misbehave.

EM's should have the power to Jail offenders for the duration of an event...or the company of a GM with such powers. Folks pay to play responsibly. I for one reject the notion that all who pay should have an equal "right" to ruin things for others.

Some suggest holding all such events in Felucca. While it is true that would allow for corrective measures, it would also open up the event to an entirely different, though no less odious misbehaving.

Trammel is intended to be a facet where folks may enjoy their play without being ganked, griefed, or murdered. Game Developers and Game Masters have it in their power and ability to provide such an environment. Mature, responsible, players have every "right" to demand and expect such an environment.

Let us HOPE that airing and discussing this here, and in game, will result in an improved behavior by those who "know who they are."

If not, I hope folks jot down names and start publicizing "who they are," in hopes the community may find MANY ways to exact our own punishment on such folks.

At a minimum, it is my hope that folks at EAMYTHIC take notice of our displeasure and work on improvements for controlling such misbehavior in our future.

Respectfully,

Elladan of Baja

 

[WarderDragon]

This I have to admit I'm guilt of this to some extent . I said a very bad word In the Cave after getting killed the 5th time. I thought I was broadcasting in guild chat to my friend and husband. I did however apologize to the ghosts around me that heard me. I'm far from perfect.

*Chuckles*

It wasn't that, Miss Millie. We've all shouted a curse or two when our character decides to do a face plant at the most inopportune time. That is to be expected. We're humans. We need to vent, go have a few sake shots, and then vent some more.

No, what I am refering to is the people who were shouting some very disgusting, obscene, and absolutely offensive words and phrases following our return to Empath Abbey. Some silliness is a good thing, I encourage people to have fun; but these people were hell-bent on griefing and ruining the event in any way possible. Those are the people that I have the problem with.

Second, I regret that ANY items were given out at this or any event. It is clear to me that incentivizing events with individual item rewards contributes greatly to attracting players who BOTH enjoy misbehaving AND benefitting while they misbehave.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on this, my friend.

That is the dilemma. I absolutely love these events, and it's always nice when you get lucky and recieve some semi-unique or special reward for your efforts. I have no problem with that aspect of these events. I cannot turn around and complain about my Minstrels Harp, or my Royal Britannian Guard and Partisan of Chaos Sashes. My frustration is with the folks that these rewards tend to attract.

Honestly, I was not worried about not getting anything from the event. The explosion happened right on the hour, so my nightsight failed on the very instant all the crystal fragments dropped to the ground. In the three seconds it took to cast the spell and regain my vision, everything was already gone. I was definately bummed out, but tough luck. Who cares? If we all got a unique drop, then it wouldn't be unique, would it? I can always fork out the cash and buy one off some rare collector. I had to do that with alot of the quests I missed over this past summer (such as the Cloaks of Corruption and Melissa's Cloak).

No, what absolutely pissed me off about it was after the battle, when we returned to the Abbey. These events are the one great boon that has been provided to our neglected and nearly forgotten playstyle; the only thing built with roleplayers in mind. We don't ask for much. Yet, you get this sick feeling in the pit of your stomach when you realize that the same people who were griefing the event, are the exact same people who picked up all the crystals the instant they dropped and are fetching 10 million a piece right now in Luna. Those same people who were spewing obscenities and forced both the roleplayers AND the cross-sharders to leave early in disgust, are the ones who are going to profit from this event. It makes you kind of mad when this sort of individual is rewarded.

That is not the event designers fault, that is the fault of the members of our shard.

As I said, I don't want them to stop making cool stuff during these events. I love pixelcrack just as much as the next guy, and love adding to my collection of oddities. I just want them to bring down the banhammer on some of those griefers. People shouldn't get away with the things we saw last afternoon. Silliness is one thing. Talking about doing something very offensive to the RPC's, amongst other things, is absolutely and completely unacceptable.

EM's should have the power to Jail offenders for the duration of an event...or the company of a GM with such powers. Folks pay to play responsibly. I for one reject the notion that all who pay should have an equal "right" to ruin things for others.

...

Mature, responsible, players have every "right" to demand and expect such an environment.

*signed*

Some suggest holding all such events in Felucca. While it is true that would allow for corrective measures, it would also open up the event to an entirely different, though no less odious misbehaving.

I understand your point, but if I ever catch some of these folks...

 

[Deathy56]

Good News...you will all now have a focus for your anger!!! I was the one who said, "Checks Dragons' Prostate" during the event. Let me clear up a few things:

1. I am in my 20's (not a tween)
2. I'm an MD who is currently getting my PhD (not some bum)
3. While it was crude, it was damn funny too (if your virgin ears hurt from the word prostate...perhaps "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" is more up your alley).
4. Most importantly...I NEVER TALKED IN FRONT OF THE DRAGONS' OR CACSA's TALKING!!!

If you notice in your screen shots I was the one who kept telling people to back away from the dragons and cacsa when they were talking. People in a crowd will always act silly. It's good that they do. Makes the game more fun and funny. However, I was ultra pissed (as many of you were), that people were talking in front of the "Event people". It was hard to follow the conversation.

Personally, I like it when Cacsa would talk to the crowd and those in the crowd would support or heckle him. Makes it more fun. But those %#$%#^ who were on top of Cacsa and the Dragons so we couldn't see what the conversation was...they should be stopped.

My idea is to list those names in a book at Luna and have it locked down. This way all will know who they are and their guild leaders can take care of them.

Continue the rants!!!

P.S. How about have the EMs lock down a book at all the banks saying the rules for events (i.e. Don't crowd the people talking) with threat of loss of account or event banishment for those who don't comply.

 

[Deathy56]

one more thing...there are people who complain that items are given at these event (your opinion) and those who complain they didn't get any items (I got 2 broken crystals so HA!), but those people who complain that items are given out at all and then moan that they were taken up to fast...WTF???

I like the items. They are fun to get. If you don't, I understand that too. But B*&#^ing and moaning that items attract bad people and then say BOOHOO that you didn't get one just reeks of *insert dirty word*.

I know it's hard, but try to be logically consistent through a rant. Have a friend, or a second-grader, give you help if you need to.

 

[Mama Faith]

Deathy....I know I wasn't there but I don't think you're the one they were speaking of. Sadly, the ones who were truly being crude probably won't care. Granted, you claim the "prostate" comment but heck, that probably would've been humorous if not for the excessive crude comments that were apparently made by others.

And btw....congratulations on getting the degree.

 

[Millie]

(I got 2 broken crystals so HA!),

Glad you got 2. Most of us would of liked to have gotten one, but most of us don't have a problem with you getting 2. You picked them up fair and square.
We do however have a problem with the People like this.

From U Hall

Well I held up on my end of the bargain and ruined Oceania's event and had a script to pick up the crystals (I got 12 out of 40). I'll continue doing this until the EM's wake up.
The funny thing was Messanna showed up and just said "please stop disrupting it" they didn't even jail me.
Oh and I got everybody killed numerous times thanks to a shadow fiend.

Its a shame that some people think the only way to have fun is to ruin events for others. And Imho we had people just like this guy above at our event last night.

 

[Deathy56]

Millie...I agree that people who are purposely trying to ruin events should have something done to them. We know that accounts have been banned and houses torched (check out Luna) for people doing improper things. If someone brags about it they should be booted.

If someone is doing it to try to make sure the EMs are doing their job, try complaining to the UO developers instead. Enough complaints and new ones will be installed. If you're doing it to ruin events, please meet me in Fel. I would like to introduce you to my GD and have pieces of you emerge from his rectum several hours later.

Oh...much love to Mama Faith. She helps all in need.

 

[Matraes]

Good News...you will all now have a focus for your anger!!! I was the one who said, "Checks Dragons' Prostate" during the event. Let me clear up a few things:

1. I am in my 20's (not a tween)
2. I'm an MD who is currently getting my PhD (not some bum)
3. While it was crude, it was damn funny too (if your virgin ears hurt from the
word prostate...perhaps "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" is more up your alley).
4. Most importantly...I NEVER TALKED IN FRONT OF THE DRAGONS' OR CACSA's TALKING!!!

I actually appreciate that you stepped forward to admit your wrongs in matters, so I am not as angry with you as with fellow shard players who spammed, used profanity needlessly, and ruined the event for others.

However, your comment on number three suggesting that 'perhaps Hello Kitty Island Adventure is more up your alley' to those who took issue with your comment during the event is exactly the type of disrespectful behavior towards your fellow players that we saw at that event that night. Being that you are well educated means that you should know better and be more mature than to insult or trash talk those who have a right to be offended by yours or another players' lewd actions or speech as they define it for themselves. It is their right to be offended and there is no need to insult those who may find an offhand comment distasteful.

I myself am not offended by the occasional salty comment like that, but when there are dozens of players spamming those types of comments it turns from funny to indecent. What I saw at that event that night appalled me and I nearly left because I couldn't follow the storyline due to the disgusting behavior. I'm ashamed right now to say that I play Baja after knowing that we had other players from cross shards visiting us and our shard populous could not even give a good account of itself at that moment. If we give a good account of ourselves we may draw over more players for PvP, PvM, and RP from other shards to join us in our fun. I've always loved how our shard has had that class and tact about it compared to other shards, but that night it was completely lacking.

I'm not even upset about the items because to me the storyline is more important than the pixels. That's why I play and that is where I find fun in this game. What upsets me is that the very people who are bragging about ruining the event, who spammed profanity, offensive comments, stood on the ghosts so they couldn't be rez'd, and spoke over the RPC's so that we could not follow the storyline at all, are the very participants who got rewarded for their obnoxious, griefing behavior. When they are rewarded for this type of behavior like that gives the negative behavior a positive response, and then these individuals continue to do this and spread this obnoxious behavior and griefing to player run events.

Our EM's are not to blame for this short sighted failure into matters with these major events. They do their job and they do it above and beyond well! With the major event storylines, they are merely given a script to follow and a method of what what must be done from point A to point B in that script. They have some leeway in the text used, but the storyline itself must remain linear and intact so it remains congruent on all shards. If I have anger it is directed at the players who ruined the event and at the developers who create these events the way they are. I take issue with latter because it allows for the bad behavior we saw at our event on Baja that night to get the positive response that it did and which would feed the negative behavior further.

As for the EM's needing to use disciplinary actions during the events, they are busy creating and performing a storyline for us to follow and enjoy. What should happen is a GM should be at those events to precipitate that discipline and structure so the event is not ruined for the players.

And I do make complaints about this sort of behavior and have before, and I will continue to do so using the feedback form on the UO website.

 

[Amber Witch]

Greetings All,
I'm all about solutions...Yes, it was disgusting last night that such immaturity was displayed. I felt very sorry for those that put the time and effort into making something special happen for us. And now maybe its time for something to change.
An idea...
1. One has to sign up in advance to attend an event.
2. An hour or whatever, before the event people gather at a specified point and there is someone who is granted special powers to recall (sendto)those that signed up to an undisclosed area. The person who has the special powers now has the account information on all the chars in attendance.
3. Before the beginning of the event the rules are laid out to those present. Rules could be similar to rules for any public event. Some people obviously need to be told what appropriate behavior is.
4. During the event, those that act with ill will are sent away. No questions, no arguments, gone.

It isn't perfect, changes won't happen immediately, but hopefully in time it will get better. There is a large percentage of the UO world that has no idea what roleplaying is. They think they are free to be as insulting and rude as they wish without recourse.They are sitting behind a computer monitor nice and safe and aren't held accountable for their actions.
There is a large percentage of the UO world that love these events. It broadens the range of the game. I would hate to see these events stopped again because of the other percentages lack of basic respect for those around them.


And Deathy56,

Okay, so maybe you were Roleplaying a proctologist but it was done in public and I don't think there was any consent by the dragon. And usually this is something that is done behind closed doors and the recipient is usually feeling embarrassed during the procedure. If you WERE roleplaying then it should have been done at an appropriate time and place. This was not the time or place. As a Doc you should be well aware of this.
In addition, at the same time there were those that were whining that they didn't get anything, that the event was lame, there was swearing, there were those that didn't have any respect what so ever for those that put the time and effort into making this event happen. All this combined, ruined what in my and many others gameplay a special event. If you had put in hours of labor and effort to make something special happen for others and received that kind of reaction would you do it again?

Respectfully,

Bucko the Kid

 

[BajaElladan]

Good News...you will all now have a focus for your anger!!! I was the one who said, "Checks Dragons' Prostate" during the event. Let me clear up a few things:

1. I am in my 20's (not a tween)
2. I'm an MD who is currently getting my PhD (not some bum)
3. While it was crude, it was damn funny too (if your virgin ears hurt from the word prostate...perhaps "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" is more up your alley).
4. Most importantly...I NEVER TALKED IN FRONT OF THE DRAGONS' OR CACSA's TALKING!!!

1. Actual age is no guarantee of maturity!
2. I know plenty of bums with PhD's!
3. By what measure of "funny?" Yours alone?
4. Thanks, but SO WHAT?

This is where playing a game world specific role helps everyone concerned. In character, no person gathering at Empath Abbey would have so poorly misbehaved, nor uttered any of the objectionable words and phrases. I believe this to be the major point of the original poster who began this Thread.

Please put more thought into playing your character, and to era and world specific speech and behavior. If everyone did that, OMGosh, what an awesome shard we would have; the envy of all Sosaria/Britannia

Elladan of Baja

 

[WildStar]

To everyone posting in this thread: Please no personal attacks.

Thank you,

WildStar

 

[BajaElladan]

Excellent Admonition, Wildstar,

No one should. Has anyone?

Elladan of Baja

 

[Oriana]

Sorry for posting so late, I was appalled by some of the behavior that night. Like Sara I have screen shots that were great except by the time you crop out the language it's worthless. Very very disappointed indeed.

 

[Oriana]

This is where playing a game world specific role helps everyone concerned. In character, no person gathering at Empath Abbey would have so poorly misbehaved, nor uttered any of the objectionable words and phrases. I believe this to be the major point of the original poster who began this Thread.

Please put more thought into playing your character, and to era and world specific speech and behavior. If everyone did that, OMGosh, what an awesome shard we would have; the envy of all Sosaria/Britannia

Hate to bust bubbles, but even "in era and world specific" there would still be pleny of jerks. Granted in live instances this would be handled swiftly in most cases. Not ever one chooses to play a nice character. thats the thing with UO you can do and be whatever you want. Is it right that people do such things purposefully. No. If they were trying their hand at RPing then a better peice of advice would be try to help them understand more appropriate times and places. As for the ones just plain out being rude I do hope the team can look into something to help with that. Even some good rping can be annoying to a reporter, because it backs up the journal and makes it difficult to get the meat of the story. Now I love RPer's so let's not open that can of worms. All I stating is that one persons rp methods may differ from others and can conflict on many levels.

 

[BajaElladan]

Hate to bust bubbles, but even "in era and world specific" there would still be pleny of jerks. Granted in live instances this would be handled swiftly in most cases. Not ever one chooses to play a nice character. thats the thing with UO you can do and be whatever you want. Is it right that people do such things purposefully. No. If they were trying their hand at RPing then a better peice of advice would be try to help them understand more appropriate times and places. As for the ones just plain out being rude I do hope the team can look into something to help with that. Even some good rping can be annoying to a reporter, because it backs up the journal and makes it difficult to get the meat of the story. Now I love RPer's so let's not open that can of worms. All I stating is that one persons rp methods may differ from others and can conflict on many levels.

While I agree generally, Oriana, even "jerks" in Britannia would NEVER behave even remotely similar to the way those jerks spoke and behaved. This was 21st century, liberal/progressive behavior. In character, in era, roleplay at its worst would have been acceptable and refreshing in comparison to what was observed and almost "proudly spewed," by those cretins (go look it up, self-educate, then grow up)! My parenthetic admonition is not directed at you, Oriana, but at those who sorely need admonished, if not suspended or banned (IMNSHO)!!!

Elladan of Baja

 

[Oriana]

And I thought we were discussing something here. The point is not everyone roleplays. I myself am just learning some of the nuances. And still can come out of character easliy. Not defending those that said those terrible things. Just an opinion.

 

[BajaElladan]

And I thought we were discussing something here. The point is not everyone roleplays. I myself am just learning some of the nuances. And still can come out of character easliy. Not defending those that said those terrible things. Just an opinion.

We ARE discussing something here, Oriana. My point is that if folks "attempted" to play an era & world (UO Baja) specific role, the boorish, immature, and inappropriate speech & behavior would not have happened. I presume the point you are attempting to make, is that folks may play UO completely out of character, as 21st century folks, without resorting to the behavior more often associated with 21st century jerks and louts. That was not what you said, nor the point you made, but is that what you meant?

Elladan of Baja

 

[Oriana]

Yes you've stated your not so humble opinion, (your words btw) But what it seems you're failing at is understanding that not everyone likes or desires to rp. But we have both taken up too much of the ops's thread already.

It is a shame those people acted the way they did. And as I stated before I do hope the team can helps us out with this sort of the thing in the future.

*Oriana politely bows and leaves the room*

 

[BajaElladan]

Yes you've stated your not so humble opinion, (your words btw) But what it seems you're failing at is understanding that not everyone likes or desires to rp. But we have both taken up too much of the ops's thread already.

It is a shame those people acted the way they did. And as I stated before I do hope the team can helps us out with this sort of the thing in the future.

*Oriana politely bows and leaves the room*

It may "seem" to you that I fail to understand that not everyone likes or desires to roleplay. It is clear to me, and I think most readers of this thread, I fully understand that. However, understanding that only serves to reinforce my point, which is and was, that if more would attempt "in character, in era, and world specific roleplay," we would not have suffered the outrageous speech and behavior on exhibit this past weekend. I'd be content if most worked on becoming roleplayers, then better roleplayers. I'd settle for folks behaving in a mature and civil manner, even in 21st century speech. That last example, sadly, seems utterly beyond far to many of our current players.

It is my hope that discussions such as this will serve to raise the level of our players and their play.

*Returns your polite bow, and remains engaged in the discussion*

Elladan of Baja

 

[Lady Tiger]

glad i missed the event if it was that bad.

 

[Deathy56]

To all I may have offended,

I was going to say my piece and leave it at that, but this is too good not to get back into. I must have missed all the swear words and racial epithets that people said because that is the only way I can imagine people getting this riled up. Whether people were actually funny or not, they have the right to try. As long as people are not interrupting the actual event (i.e. getting in front of those talking in the event) then that's life (or virtual life as the case is).

For whoever said if people were there in real life they would not have acted that way...I agree on my part. The last time in real life a giant evil dragon sat on top of me I did not try to check its prostate. You got me. However, in real life I tell jokes all the time. Some funny...some not so, but all in an attempt to make people laugh. It's true there is a time and place for everything. When I work with children I tone down my humor. Since it seems that I'm dealing with some now, why don't you close your eye until the naughty words disappear.

On second thought, you're right. Some people would not say what they did in real life. It would be horrible if some shy person was able to express them self in the safety of UO. Let's squish that immediately. How to do it...Hmmmmmm...got it! Let's censure what people can say. If they say something at least one person finds offensive lets kick them out of the event. Maybe you can give a list of what can and can't be said before hand. Even better...we will all be really silent and try not to breathe in an offensive way. OMG...did you see how that guy blinked his eyes??? He needs to be banned for sure!

I think my sarcasm has all run out so let me leave on this note...offensive is a matter of taste. There are something we can all agree is not right for UO as it rated for 13 year old and up (no swear words and no racist remarks). Other than that if you are offended then that is your privilege, but don't expect the rest of us to bow to your censorship ways.

By the way, "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" was a reference to South Park, which I can only assume is another thing that offends you.

Please feel free to attack me by name...I can take it.

 

[BajaElladan]

To Deathy56,

As I found nothing in your most recent post in this thread worthy of, or in need of, reply, I simply assert it looked very much like an excellent example of a "troll." No, no, not the ones hiding under bridges waiting to ambush their prey, but the type defined as "no, no's," for posting here.

Hopefully your future speech and behavior will improve in game, and your future posts will improve in relevance and content.

In reasonable civility,

Elladan of Baja

 

[Ceno of MT]

I think some need to calm down a bit...
Elladan, I understand your point, trust me. But you are not helping your point. While reading your posts it more sounds like you are attacking Ori.
You cannot push your beliefs onto people, this is a game designed to play however you wish.
WE create our own stories and I believe that aspect in UO has been lost for a long time now. The world we once knew is indeed diferent. I for one do wish to change this, I have told you what I wish to do with my community (guild, Keepers of the Tower) and I have a lot of support with the Kingdom of Dawn and many other guilds that are apart of the Baja Roleplaying & Event Alliance. Do not lose hope and do not let your anger fill you for that will only hurt your "quest" and will turn people away from Roleplaying.

I am new to the RP world and so far it has been a huge blast! everyone in the BRPA has been awesome and I think if anyone stopped and watched them RP some it would encourage others to do the same, it worked on me!
Kurpur is my favorite orc, he stays in char and I think so far have only seen him break character once while he was doing decorating (sadly housing doesnt accept the orc language for locking things down and such)

As I have said before in another post....Big things are coming to Baja....and even the Widow has seen what I wish to do and has told me it will be successful.

 

[BajaElladan]

I think some need to calm down a bit...
Elladan, I understand your point, trust me. But you are not helping your point. While reading your posts it more sounds like you are attacking Ori.
You cannot push your beliefs onto people, this is a game designed to play however you wish.

Hello Ceno,

Let me be perfectly clear. I in No Way have intended to "attack" Ori. Nor do I believe you are able to point to anything I have written that in any way qualifies as an attack upon Ori, or that any reasonable person could conclude was such an attack.

However, since you came to such a wrong conclusion, I write to remove all doubt. Nothing I have written in this Thread was intended as an attack upon Ori. Nor even a criticism of Ori. I expressed one or more views, which I am not sure Ori properly understood. Ori seemed to think I wasn't understanding one or more of her points. I am reasonably sure I understood her points clearly, but I did seek clarification, with none given.

Once more...for the record, I get IT, I fully understand each player may enter Ultima Online in whatever manner they may get away with without being suspended or banned.

One of my points, is simply that I believe each player should aspire and strive to do better. To that end, I believe any player wishing to do better, will be helped by developing "in character, roleplay skills." For those who do not want to ever participate in a manner most would describe as roleplay, that is their priviledge. I in no way suggest otherwise. I simply state my belief roleplay makes all players better participants.

I hope this has cleared things up well and removed any doubts or misunderstandings that I was attacking Ori, or insisting any player participate in accord with my wishes.

Elladan of Baja

 

[Ceno of MT]

I did not say you were attacking Ori, meerly stated that it sounds like it, so i did not come to a wrong conclusion *Smiles*
My point was more that if you try to speak the way you were towards Ori, it may turn people away from RP, please do not take offense to this but again, it "sounded" like you were attacking her, and when it "sounds" like something....it may sound different to others.
I knew you werent yelling at Ori, but others may think differently and then would hurt your case you want to prove.
besides...who "could" yell at Ori...? I mean really?
she's too innocent to yell at!

 

[SuperKen]

Easy way to deal with Deathy56's obvious troll-like comments and more obvious lies?

Considering he hasn't even mastered how to read yet; just ignore him.

The OP's thread has nothing to do with him, yet he feels he has to come and provoke/rile up people.

Show some class, and ignore him. He's nothing. Should almost be beneath our notice.

Remember, there could be more than just Baja citizens reading this. Let's lead by example and show our visitors we can handle temporary setbacks like this rather than dwell on the negatives or arguing amongst ourselves about things that cannot possibly be for the greater good of Baja.

 

[Sara Of Baja]

Easy way to deal with Deathy56's obvious troll-like comments and more obvious lies?

Considering he hasn't even mastered how to read yet; just ignore him.

The OP's thread has nothing to do with him, yet he feels he has to come and provoke/rile up people.

Show some class, and ignore him. He's nothing. Should almost be beneath our notice.

Remember, there could be more than just Baja citizens reading this. Let's lead by example and show our visitors we can handle temporary setbacks like this rather than dwell on the negatives or arguing amongst ourselves about things that cannot possibly be for the greater good of Baja.

Aptly stated, SuperKen. Thank you

 

[WarderDragon]

Deathly56,

As I've mentioned previously in this thread, I am not here to be some killjoy. I don't have a problem with people injecting some pretty rowdy humor into their daily gaming experience, and I certainly don't expect them (yourself included) to be tame about it. I can tell you right now, our own alliance chat channel can get pretty raunchy itself at times; enough to make even Mama Faith blush. Of course, our resident comedians (myself included) know when and where to draw the line.

Yes, I am a bit old fashioned in that regard; but I believe that there are just some things that a gentleman should never say in public. I've stepped over the line before; but when I do, I don't come on the forums and attempt to justify it. I do the adult thing, and respectfully apologize if I caused any offense (even if I feel that I didn't do anything wrong). In coming on here and being so defensive about it, it makes me seriously question all these claims you are making about yourself.

Nevertheless, if it was just checking the dragons prostate, this thread would not be up here today. Yours was relatively tame in compared to the others. I was still annoyed by that comment, but yours was the most tame selection on there. Why did I use you as an example? Because the others were so offensive, I did not want to repeat them here.

But now I am going to, so maybe you'll begin to see my point. Oriana, if I step over the lines with any of these comments, please message me and I will delete them immidiately.

- The first instance that comes to mind were all the people spewing profanities towards our event moderators for not recieving items. You couldn't even talk in that flurry of obscenities.

- When the Crimson Dragon Syrax arrived and began talking, some knucklehead ran over to it and began spamming: "Aw did Casca **** you when you were a baby!!!" He kept running around and spamming this, which filled up my journal rather quickly.

- Your comment prompted someone to begin claiming that they were sticking their head up the female dragons vagina, and then claiming that she was a virgin. This prompted this individuals guildmates to start telling Syrax to have his way (not in those words of course) with the Platinum Dragon.

- I seem to also remember some very messed up comments being directed towards Kemer and Aino, such as questioning his sexuality.

- I am sure that between myself, Ceno, and Sara; we can dig up plenty more to entertain you.

I have a right to be offended.

Personally, I like it when Cacsa would talk to the crowd and those in the crowd would support or heckle him.

I am a roleplayer, so of course I love the back and fourth between our new king and the players, and can't advocate sqwelching the audience. I just wish that the select few troublemakers on our shard would be delt with. If you are there to ruin the event, you shouldn't be allowed to participate with the rest.

By the way, did anyone notice that our shard was one of the only ones where Syrax and the Platinum Dragon didn't fight? Strange, unless it wasn't only the roleplayers who got fed up and left.

one more thing...there are people who complain that items are given at these event (your opinion) and those who complain they didn't get any items (I got 2 broken crystals so HA!), but those people who complain that items are given out at all and then moan that they were taken up to fast...WTF???

I like the items. They are fun to get. If you don't, I understand that too. But B*&#^ing and moaning that items attract bad people and then say BOOHOO that you didn't get one just reeks of *insert dirty word*.

I could personally care less about recieving one of the crystals. I was a bit bummed that my nightsight failed at the very instant the sigil exploded (Murphy's Law), but it is just a game. I knew that I could just as easily purchase one off a vendor in Luna. I came for the story, and it was the people attempting to ruin that aspect of the event that led me to create this thread.

I don't advocate removing these items. I am glad that you recieved one, and hope that you continue to get as lucky as you were Saturday afternoon. The only aspect that gets on my nerves is that these same people who come and ruin these roleplaying events for the actual roleplayers, are the same ones who script loot the monsters, dupe the items, and inevitably fork up millions of gold while the people who came with more noble intentions practically get punished for attending.

I could care less about you getting the item, but when you're attempting to ruin the event afterwards, can you blame me for feeling a little bit resentful?

I was going to say my piece and leave it at that, but this is too good not to get back into. I must have missed all the swear words and racial epithets that people said because that is the only way I can imagine people getting this riled up. Whether people were actually funny or not, they have the right to try. As long as people are not interrupting the actual event (i.e. getting in front of those talking in the event) then that's life (or virtual life as the case is).

For whoever said if people were there in real life they would not have acted that way...I agree on my part. The last time in real life a giant evil dragon sat on top of me I did not try to check its prostate. You got me. However, in real life I tell jokes all the time. Some funny...some not so, but all in an attempt to make people laugh. It's true there is a time and place for everything. When I work with children I tone down my humor. Since it seems that I'm dealing with some now, why don't you close your eye until the naughty words disappear.

As I've mentioned above, I don't have a problem with people being funny. I have a problem with people being griefers.

If that makes us children for being frustrated that you came and griefed the event, and are now on the message boards attempting to justify the above, then I guess I am a big baby. *Smiles*

 

[Sleath]

First off I would like to apologize to all my guild mates and friends...
I was one of the grievers after the event... I would also like to apologize to anyone who heard my rant and to both EM's... That was definitely not the time or the forum to express my displeasure of the whole situation. However to be quite honest I doubt I will ever do another shard event again... There is no control, no balance, and no point trying to complete a Quest... and yes it is a quest, and when you complete a quest you usually gain something to show that you were a part of that quest, all I’m going to say about that.
I do enjoy the story line and it has been progressing rather well... So let us give credit where credit is due. Our EM's have gone above and beyond to make this event into what it is, and for that I felt terrible after the event for spewing some of things I did. However once again EA has stepped in and toppled the balance of game play so that it is absolutely ridicules. If anyone was around several years ago, the last time this happened it caused a mass exodus of true Role Players from the game and I am afraid that if EA continues in this direction again it will be the death of UO for Role Players altogether because it will be no different that any other level up questing game and will no longer be an MMO"RPG". Same thing happened before same thing will happen again... Check your records EA and you will see exactly what I’m talking about... UO will become another WOW, Ever quest, AoC, Warhammer, although they are great games, they are not designed for RP and that was and is UO's biggest and greatest advantage. You continue to take that away from us again then you will leave us with nothing AGAIN…
I am sorry if I offended anyone that was not my intention or purpose. It was not to say the EM’s did a bad job, because they are kicking @$$, it was merely a show of my frustration once again with UO/EA’s unbalanced system that is not tailored to what the game was created for… a ROLE PLAYING GAME…..

 

[Mama Faith]

I say it takes a big person and a lot of guts to admit when they did something that they probably shouldn't have done. I commend you, Sleath.

Personally, I hope that you give it a little time before truly deciding not to be a part of the events. I go to be a part of the community and would miss that immensely and think you would too. Please, think on it, kind sir. *curtsy*

 

[RichDC]

I will say Baja was one of the few shards i didnt go to watch, once we had the Great Lakes one and i was left disappointed the lack of action was terrible!!

I went to quite a few shards watching them die to spawn and wishing i played on those shards, out of them all if memory serves Napa Valley had the most rowdy crowd...i say rowdy...not rude!! It was actually hilarious, the comments were well intended (if not a little derogatory to the EM and Casca...someone actually tried to give the EM a Blow job!!! Hilarious!!!although the em didnt think so lol), and generally kept in the RP theme.

Even Great lakes had some role playing chars there and were for the most part respected, The True Rpers took the event on to the EM hut and began mulling over the proceedings asking questions so on and so forth.

It saddens me to hear that sometimes people "ruin" the event for others (maybe the EM blow job was not appreciated by all for example) its a shame as i do feel these events are getting better...just

 

[Sara Of Baja]

Taken from UOHerald News:

Message from the Game Masters
The Game Masters
24 Mar 2009 16:02:02


In recent live events we have had some players who have been disruptive to the Event Moderators and other players. Going forward any player that disrupts an event will be asked to stop from the EM hosting the event. If the player continues to disrupt the event they will be removed from the area and a GM will be paged to handle the situation. Based on the GM’s investigation and findings, their account could be subject to punitive actions. If you would like to dispute such actions, you may click here and leave a detailed description.
---------------------------------------

There is a comment thread on the UHall forum

 

[WarderDragon]

Thank you for posting that, Sara! *Smiles*

I am so thankful that they are finally doing this. As I've said before, I don't want to be some killjoy; as people should be having fun at these events. But when that fun includes being disruptive, lewd, or ruining other peoples enjoyment, then it needs to stop. I want to see more folks antagonize Casca - I've never seen more people take up character - but what these people did was cross the line of decency.

Sleath, I completely understand where you're coming from brother. We were all frustrated that afternoon, and needed to vent our frustration out on something. I was flaming pissed off (hence this thread).

I do have to say this. We should continue attending and supporting these events; as our event moderators are fellow roleplayers, and they have only our best interests in mind. These events aren't always going to work out as planned; I fully anticipate that we'll see more problems crop up in the future. We cannot expect perfection. But, I think we can all agree that our event moderators are trying to do a good thing for us, and they cannot be blamed for a small minority of knuckleheads out there to ruin it for the rest of us.

These events, most especially the Casca storyline, has ignited the largest surge of interest in roleplaying and the Ultima storyline that we've seen in years; I would argue since pre-Trammel. We have to be thankful for that. I don't want to be like some other shards or roleplaying guilds (that I will not name here), who become elitist and cloister themselves from others.

 

[Deathy56]

Easy way to deal with Deathy56's obvious troll-like comments and more obvious lies?

Considering he hasn't even mastered how to read yet; just ignore him.

The OP's thread has nothing to do with him, yet he feels he has to come and provoke/rile up people.

Show some class, and ignore him. He's nothing. Should almost be beneath our notice.

Remember, there could be more than just Baja citizens reading this. Let's lead by example and show our visitors we can handle temporary setbacks like this rather than dwell on the negatives or arguing amongst ourselves about things that cannot possibly be for the greater good of Baja.

SuperKen,

Really? If I have said some lies (I know I did not), then please tell me what they are and I will apologize or justify my comments. You can't really say that the thread has nothing to do with me when it was started by a comment about what I said (The whole prostate thing). To WarderDragon let me say I understand your anger if obscenities were made. As I have stated UO is not the place for those. Personally, I agree with what WarderDragon has stated. SuperKen...not so much.

SuperKen said that we should, "Show some class" and then said, "He's nothing. "Should almost be beneath our notice". Is that how you show class SuperKen? By insinuating people are worthless (i.e. Nothing). That they shouldn't be listen to at all, that their opinions don't matter if they don't agree with you (i.e. Should almost be beneath our notice)? Classy indeed. Now that I know how classy people act, I'll try to be up to the challenge.

Finally SuperKen, how can say, in the same sentence, that we lead by example and not dwell on the negative and yet your entire quote is dwelling on negative statements about some comments you have perceived as negative! Are you a hypocrite or just have no idea what you are saying? Perhaps you should change your name to MediocreKen.

Do I want to rile people up? You bet I do. Only in heated conversations do peoples real emotions come out and we can see just what is bothering people. In my opinion, the problem is people interfering with the event. I would have loved to see the dragons fight (50 bucks on the Platnium one).

As far as role playing, I think its been stated that not all of us role play. When I play UO I do not act as an elf who has mastered the art of taming and archery. Some people do an kudos to you. I act as a guy who plays a game. As such I talk to my friends about what they are doing this weekend, who their favorite team is in the tourney (GO Boilermakers!!!), how their life (girlfriend, job, ect) is going among many other things. This can not be done in the aspect of role playing. For those who role play I think it's pretty cool, but not how I want to play. Let's all do our own thing and if someone offends us...just try to deal with it. If it is truly in violations of UO then by all means get a GM to put the smack down on. But if it's something you can just live with, then live well.

Tootles

 

[Crow]

...to spewing obscenities that are a bannable offense (including some knucklehead who kept spamming the infamous R-word in reference to Casca

Eeek!! The 'R' word??? Regicide?!? Geez, less then a month and the new king is already dealing with calls for their head....

...sorry

 

[rsinbad]

disappointment continues eh?

 

[Turdnugget]

I think the Crimson Dragon was too chicken to fight... we were egging it on yet it didn't move a muscle other than to teleport away.

I think the EM wasted their time telling all those dang spellweavers wanting to focus up when the crystal was supposed to explode. It took like 5 minutes to clear those people off so we could move on with the event.

If I remember right, there was a certain 'roleplayer' there getting these spellweavers together... after the EM repeatedly told them to move back... He should have just blown them all up anyways.

First, I regret that any shard (but especially Baja) has players who simply have NO creativity, NO civility, and NO decency. What should have been a fun and interesting event, was greatly diminished by a handful of players proving they have NOTHING useful to contribute to a MMORPG.

BajaElladan... you'll find these kinds of people anywhere you play. Unless it's a stricly RP shard or something. Maybe it was fun and itneresting to those people...and who says they have NOTHING useful to contribute to a MMORPG? Maybe they thought the event sucked, so they decided to spice it up to make it more enjoyable.

The couple events I have been too have just been one big trammy lagfest. Taking Clainin to the moongate... only to fight off some balrons...yipee... That was soooo exciting. Moving a tile per 3 seconds due to the mass amount of lag created (devs need to do something about this) How can an event be fun if you can hardly even move?

The Fire/Ice was pretty funny... a guildmate and I went to the back side.We were the only ones on that side besides one other. By the time we cleared our side, 3/4 of everyone who went on the otherside had died, or was dying and had barely even made it to the center room.

I do agree that it's childish some of the things that were said. But you can't help it. You do realize there are kids who play this game too? Even some adults who haven't quite matured.

Please put more thought into playing your character, and to era and world specific speech and behavior. If everyone did that, OMGosh, what an awesome shard we would have; the envy of all Sosaria/Britannia

This made me chuckle...If you want to RP your chr, and have everyone else RP, there are RP specific servers btw.

I presume the point you are attempting to make, is that folks may play UO completely out of character, as 21st century folks, without resorting to the behavior more often associated with 21st century jerks and louts

That's me. Only way I would RP all the time is if they opened up all facets to PvP so I could be a stealth assassin. Like in the days of old. I play the game to have fun. With the current state of UO, RPing in Trammel isn't fun.

 

[WarderDragon]

I think a couple people have misunderstood our point. This thread is not about whether people should roleplay. Granted, I would be totally stoked if more people took up a roleplaying persona and joined us at the events (which many people have already done), that is a personal choice that each player must make for ourselves.

What this thread about is Griefers and Griefing. These roleplaying events, and the fiction that our developers have begun to write, is the first bone thrown to the roleplaying community in a very long time. While PvP and PvM players have gotten patches and new content regularly, we haven't recieved much (outside the event moderators) since the Seer program ended nine years ago. Its not like we ask for much, just to be able to have our fun without people trying to grief us. When people begin spamming obscenities (I am not talking about the harmless and funny ones, but the ones blatantly meant to offend people), whether it is because they think that they are the next great comedian or because they are pissed off about not recieving an item, they should be removed from the area and prevented from causing further offense and disruption.

People who are hell-bent on ruining other players fun have absolutely no place at these events.