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[Treasure Hunting] How to raise Remove Trap

Keven2002

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I wanted to start this thread up based on the changes to Remove Trap skill. The biggest change to remove trap going forward is that it no longer requires both lockpicking and detect hidden skills to use anymore. Remove trap is now its own completely separate skill.

In addition to the old way of training remove trap (more on that below); players are now able to train the skill on 3 different puzzle boxes that can be purchased (for about 100k each) from the "collector or oddities" in Moonglow. Players can also "actively" gain Remove Trap while using it on treasure chests that have been dug up; lower level chests still offer gains to higher skill Remove Trap.

The older method of using trapped boxes can also be used (as outlined by @Tina Small):

@Tina Small did some excellent work on how to train remove trap the pre Forgotten Treasures way which I've pasted below.

I don't have this completely mapped out yet, but this is what I think Tinkering skill has to be when you set the traps in order to get the optimal challenge for Remove Trap gains:

Remove Trap Skill 31.0 to 35.0: for optimal challenge, Tinkering has to be 30.1 (highly recommended to wear a tinkering talisman at this stage) to 35.0
Remove Trap Skill 35.1 to 45.0: for optimal challenge, Tinkering has to be 40.1 to 45.0;
Remove Trap Skill 45.1 to 55.0: for optimal challenge, Tinkering has to be 50.1 to 55.0
Remove Trap Skill 55.1 to 65.0: for optimal challenge, Tinkering has to be 60.1 to 65.0
Remove Trap Skill 65.1 to 75.0: for optimal challenge, Tinkering has to be 70.1 to 75.0
Remove Trap Skill 75.1 to 85.0: for optimal challenge, Tinkering has to be 80.1 to 85.0
Remove Trap Skill 85.1 to 95.0: for optimal challenge, Tinkering has to be 90.1 to 95.0
Remove Trap Skill 95.1 to 100.0: for easy challenge, use GM-tinkered boxes.

You still get gains if you're in the "easy" range or in the "challenging" range.

Resources used looking like this:

31 remove trap to 40 remove trap: Used about 700 ingots and 600 bolts.
40 remove trap to 45 remove trap: 222 ingots and 147 bolts
45 remove trap to 50 remove trap: 200 ingots and 200 bolts
50 remove trap to 55 remove trap: 228 ingots and 253 bolts
55 remove trap to 60 remove trap: 386 ingots and 240 bolts
60 remove trap to 65 remove trap: 352 ingots and 263 bolts
65 remove trap to 70 remove trap: 601 ingots and 279 bolts
70 remove trap to 75 remove trap: 719 ingots and 352 bolts (grand totals to this point of 3408 ingots and 2334 bolts)

Setting dart traps will put you in the following ranges at these levels of tinkering skill:
Very challenging - 30 to 40.0
Challenging - 40.1 to 50.0
Optimal - 50.1 to 60.0
Easy - 60.1 to 70.0
Very easy - 70.1 to 80.0
Too easy - 80.1 and up
 

Keven2002

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Anyone know how the puzzle boxes work? Can you gain fast from them?
The puzzle boxes work just like other puzzles in the game work (Khuldan chests etc). You buy these puzzle boxes and successfully completing will give a chance of gains. That said, it seems like at the moment (from results on Origin/Baja testing) the best bet for training remove trap is to actually just use it on some of the treasure chests (lower level) and actively work the skill with some reward at the end.

@Khaelor posted this a few days ago (which can be found here: New T-Hunting, let's talk loot (The Origin Experience) )...
For those that might be interested, I've done 104 chests on Baja to get to 88.8 Remove Trap skill (I started at 0.0) Still gain around .2-.3 per chest on Supply+, Stash chests sometimes only get .1 gain. Of those 104, i've only gotten two rusty chests, both Cache.

Edit: two more hoard maps done, 89.4 Remove Trap.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Where can you buy the puzzle chests?

I went to dungeon shame to use remove trap there on the dungeon chests. It works, but slow as hell to raise.

*edit*
Found the puzzle boxes at the oddities collector. First time doing the circuit one I gained 0.8.
 
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Maldar

Sage
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
The boxes give larger gains than normal.......kinda' as if you were using an alacrity scroll. I found the Circuit Trap Training Kit to be the fastest and easiest, for me, anyway. AND....you can do it as fast as you want since you don't have to wait for the skill to time out before trying again. The gains do taper off as your skill gains. In the 50s, I was gaining mostly 0.3 every 2-4 tries and now, in the 60s, I am getting mostly 0.2 gains in 2-5 tries. I'm at 62.0 after a couple hours of just putzing around with the skill.

EDIT: I just hit 75.0 skill and the Circuit Trap puzzle just became more complex......larger puzzle with more moves.
 
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Basara

UO Forum Moderator
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For me it was:

Buy RT to 33.3 at the Moonglow Tinker Grandmaster.
Do 1 level 1 and 3 level 2, to get to 42.5 - no gains after because I didn't realize that my last 5 mining were on imbued mining gloves, and I was over 40 when I started the 4th map.

I've now got a different skill set to go down, but no time to go out tonight. We'll see what tomorrow brings.
 

ZidjiN

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I started with 0 removetrap yesterday and just started doing Ingenious maps, level 5 now called Hoard. It was no problem doing the chests with no remove trap at all.
Ended upp with ~80 remove trap on the first day after like 4 hours of doing level 5 maps.

Im not sure if im gonna keep the skill though. Might be just better to have it at 0 and get another skill to handle the spawn a little better. woulod be kinda nice to free up 100 skill points.
 

Keven2002

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
I was able to get into the game last night to do some remove trap on treasure chests and I'd definitely recommend going that route if you already have a treasure hunter (and maps). The gains at 30 was like .8 an attempt and I was able to quickly make it to 50 RT in just an hour or so (from 30). I haven't needed to use an alacrity scroll for RT since the gains have been greater than .1 so far.

The next best way looks like to drop 100k on those puzzle boxes.

Keep posting your RT experiences!
 

Specialist

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
u can buy the puzzle boxes from the oddities collector at the moonglow library north west of the main city. they are 99k each I bought my remove traps to 28 then used the puzzle box got to 70.0 in 2 hours no pinkies or alacrities. the circuit puzzle is the easiest and fastest of the 3 puzzles. i'll see what I can get done tonight
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
I started with 0 removetrap yesterday and just started doing Ingenious maps, level 5 now called Hoard. It was no problem doing the chests with no remove trap at all.
Ended upp with ~80 remove trap on the first day after like 4 hours of doing level 5 maps.

Im not sure if im gonna keep the skill though. Might be just better to have it at 0 and get another skill to handle the spawn a little better. woulod be kinda nice to free up 100 skill points.
So you had 0 remove trap and your chests didn't blow up your loot or you?

I went to Shame level 5 when I had ~35 remove trap skill and the random dungeon chests there blew up on me nearly every time.
 

Basara

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After another 20-25 level 1 & 2 maps, up to 67.4. I'd rather do simple maps that pay me and entertain me, then bore myself senseless trying to do the puzzle boxes to train.

I'm still getting gains of 0.2 on level 1 maps at that level (in fact, my last map was a level 1, and it took me from 66.6 to 67.4, in steps of 0.2)
 

Keven2002

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
After another 20-25 level 1 & 2 maps, up to 67.4. I'd rather do simple maps that pay me and entertain me, then bore myself senseless trying to do the puzzle boxes to train.

I'm still getting gains of 0.2 on level 1 maps at that level (in fact, my last map was a level 1, and it took me from 66.6 to 67.4, in steps of 0.2)
I'm up to about 70 RT myself with just 2 nights of playing (roughly 40 maps). I'm with @Basara; the maps are all Stash/Supply (mixed in a few Cache to spice it up) so the difficulty of spawn is easy. I've gotten like 10 of those new fragments (hopefully more than just paper weights) and several other goodies. Just actively working RT on treasure chests definitely seems like the way to go. The only reason I can see NOT to go that route is if you just don't have the maps and can't get any (I stocked up a little bit before the release).

your chests didn't blow up your loot or you?
The chests will blow you up but the damage is based on the chest level. At Stash/Supply you are only taking 15-30 damage (all 70 suit). Easily fixed using greater heal (pre-casted). The loot in the chest no longer blows up at all (not from failing to lockpick either).
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
The loot in the chest no longer blows up at all (not from failing to lockpick either).
Oh good to know.

I'm up to 75 skill, got there pretty quick using the circuit puzzle chest. Wondering if it might be worth it to get discorded by a Satyr so my skill will be lower and hopefully the puzzle size will go back to 3*3 instead of 4*4. With 75 skill I went to Shame level 5 and the dungeon chests there now show "Too Easy" with crystal ball of knowledge.
 

Keven2002

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Oh good to know.

I'm up to 75 skill, got there pretty quick using the circuit puzzle chest. Wondering if it might be worth it to get discorded by a Satyr so my skill will be lower and hopefully the puzzle size will go back to 3*3 instead of 4*4. With 75 skill I went to Shame level 5 and the dungeon chests there now show "Too Easy" with crystal ball of knowledge.
Keep us posted on if the satyr thing works with the puzzle box; interested to know if that would work.
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Keep us posted on if the satyr thing works with the puzzle box; interested to know if that would work.
I tried the Satyr trick, while he did discord my skill down to the 40's, unfortunately the circuit puzzle was still 4*4. I completed the puzzle 5 times while discorded, crystal ball of knowledge showed "Too Difficult" and I got no gaines. Lame.

So I don't recommend the Satyr trick for Remove Trap. :(
 

Basara

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Another note: Damage/spawn pulses from chests

These appear to go DOWN (in more ways than one) as your remove trap improves.

When I started in at 33.3 RT, I was getting 5-6 damaging pulses per chest. These were doing 30-35 points of damage each time, plus the monster spawning*. The last pulse, where the chest opens, has no damage or monster.

As I improved in RT skill, this dropped down to 4 pulses, then 3 by the late 60s. And, the Damage per pulse dropped from the 30s to the 20s, to about 17 points per pulse. Based on reports from people with 90 or higher, the damage/spawn pulses will disappear completely for the lower maps, eventually - but they were already too high in RT when the publish hit to tell when.

(*) Note: If the previous pulse's monster is still up, you just get the damage, not the damage plus another spawn - this is most obvious with the Ogre Lords, as most other spawn Level 3 and less drop quicker than the pulse timers)

ALSO, if the last monster is still up when the non-damage pulse occurs where the chest should have been untrapped (again, mostly an Ogre Lord issue with Level 3 or less), you'll get the message that the spawn still has to be killed before you can loot. However, this is an OLD message, and needs to be updated to tell you that you have to use Remove Trap on the chest again when the last spawn dies. The second use has only one, non-damaging, pulse, and CAN get you another gain that you wouldn't have had if the monster died in a timely matter.
 
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Keven2002

Babbling Loonie
Stratics Veteran
UNLEASHED
Skill Update:

I GM'ed Remove Trap last night. Overall wasn't painful at all and allowed me to see a lot of different drops in the stash/supply chests that I'd probably not have given much thought to if I hadn't done so many for RT.

Confession.... I did cheat a bit and use +10 RT when I reached 90 that I had laying around so I can't comment on how much of a grind it would be to go from 90-100. That said, from 29 - 90.1 I used mostly treasure chests (stash/supply mainly) with a sprinkle of the circuit puzzle trap when I didn't have time to go find coordinates and dig up a chest. It took me about 100 maps or so to get from 29-90; I did switch to cache around 86 because I had many more of those than supply AND I would get a couple more attempts per chest which gave me .1 or .2 more gains then just using a supply chest (averaged at least .1 from each chest).

One thing I noticed for those people still training RT is that ALL LEVEL chests are "Optimal" for using RT so chance on gains will be the same for Stash through Trove. The higher maps will likely have more attempts (and more spawn) so you will likely gain more per chest on the higher levels.

My advice - Actively use the skill on treasure chests for the best results. See below:
  • Buy the skill up to 30ish from a Thief or Tinker Guildmaster.
  • Dig up and use RT skill on stash/supply chests from 30-70. You will get several full point gains from a single chest (over multiple attempts) well into the 60's. While in the 50's I was getting .5 gains on a failure and would even get .8 gains (which you get a lot 30-50). This will likely take 40 maps or so. Supply maps are ideal since the spawn is very manageable but you still get good amount of attempts. It goes quick.
  • Continue to dig up supply maps and throw in some cache maps from 70-80. The cache maps will add some additional attempts per chest which will still give you upwards of a full point gained per chest.
  • When you reach 80 Keep digging up supply chests but start to use more cache maps and maybe even hoard. Again the difficulty will all be "optimal" for gains but you will get more attempts on the cache/hoard maps. I was still gaining .1-.3 per supply chest in the high 80's.
  • Once you reach 90 you will still gain .1 or .2 from supply chests (some you won't gain at all though). The cache/hoard/trove chests will give you more attempts and that will lead to more overall gains per chest (although it seems like it still might be a max of .1-.2 per chest at this point). This might be a good time to use any remove trap alacrity scrolls you have.
Scroll of Alacrity usage:

I only used 1 scroll of alacrity during training in the low 80's (this is when I would still see a .2 gain at once). It seems like those multi point gains are also accelerated even further because I was getting some .6 - .8 gains at once even at the low 80 mark. Pro tip: Before you use the alacrity scroll, go mark 10 supply chest locations (supply chest give multiple attempts with low level mobs). Dig up the first chest and then use the scroll right before you start to remove trap. Then finish the chest as quick as possible and recall to the next location and rinse/repeat for all the following chests. I was able to do 7 supply chests in under 15min AND still have a couple minutes to use a circuit puzzle trap for a gain (since I ran out of maps). I went from 81 to 84.5 in 15min.

Hope this helps!
 

SouthPaw

Lore Master
Skill Update:

I GM'ed Remove Trap last night. Overall wasn't painful at all and allowed me to see a lot of different drops in the stash/supply chests that I'd probably not have given much thought to if I hadn't done so many for RT.

Confession.... I did cheat a bit and use +10 RT when I reached 90 that I had laying around so I can't comment on how much of a grind it would be to go from 90-100. That said, from 29 - 90.1 I used mostly treasure chests (stash/supply mainly) with a sprinkle of the circuit puzzle trap when I didn't have time to go find coordinates and dig up a chest. It took me about 100 maps or so to get from 29-90; I did switch to cache around 86 because I had many more of those than supply AND I would get a couple more attempts per chest which gave me .1 or .2 more gains then just using a supply chest (averaged at least .1 from each chest).

One thing I noticed for those people still training RT is that ALL LEVEL chests are "Optimal" for using RT so chance on gains will be the same for Stash through Trove. The higher maps will likely have more attempts (and more spawn) so you will likely gain more per chest on the higher levels.

My advice - Actively use the skill on treasure chests for the best results. See below:
  • Buy the skill up to 30ish from a Thief or Tinker Guildmaster.
  • Dig up and use RT skill on stash/supply chests from 30-70. You will get several full point gains from a single chest (over multiple attempts) well into the 60's. While in the 50's I was getting .5 gains on a failure and would even get .8 gains (which you get a lot 30-50). This will likely take 40 maps or so. Supply maps are ideal since the spawn is very manageable but you still get good amount of attempts. It goes quick.
  • Continue to dig up supply maps and throw in some cache maps from 70-80. The cache maps will add some additional attempts per chest which will still give you upwards of a full point gained per chest.
  • When you reach 80 Keep digging up supply chests but start to use more cache maps and maybe even hoard. Again the difficulty will all be "optimal" for gains but you will get more attempts on the cache/hoard maps. I was still gaining .1-.3 per supply chest in the high 80's.
  • Once you reach 90 you will still gain .1 or .2 from supply chests (some you won't gain at all though). The cache/hoard/trove chests will give you more attempts and that will lead to more overall gains per chest (although it seems like it still might be a max of .1-.2 per chest at this point). This might be a good time to use any remove trap alacrity scrolls you have.
Scroll of Alacrity usage:

I only used 1 scroll of alacrity during training in the low 80's (this is when I would still see a .2 gain at once). It seems like those multi point gains are also accelerated even further because I was getting some .6 - .8 gains at once even at the low 80 mark. Pro tip: Before you use the alacrity scroll, go mark 10 supply chest locations (supply chest give multiple attempts with low level mobs). Dig up the first chest and then use the scroll right before you start to remove trap. Then finish the chest as quick as possible and recall to the next location and rinse/repeat for all the following chests. I was able to do 7 supply chests in under 15min AND still have a couple minutes to use a circuit puzzle trap for a gain (since I ran out of maps). I went from 81 to 84.5 in 15min.

Hope this helps!
My RT is in the mid 80's now. Once the circuit puzzle went to 4*4 size I switched to only training on chests and it's been fine. Still got a ways to go until GM, but since they changed it so it no longer blows up the loot, no reason not to just train it up on chests.
 

celticus

Crazed Zealot
UNLEASHED
My RT is in the mid 80's now. Once the circuit puzzle went to 4*4 size I switched to only training on chests and it's been fine. Still got a ways to go until GM, but since they changed it so it no longer blows up the loot, no reason not to just train it up on chests.
You will be pleased with the results at RT 80s..:)
 
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