How did some get to "Noble" Loyalty (10,000 points) in a few hours ?

[popps]

A lot of people have not even been able to play the expansion because of problems with the UOGamecodes web site and yet some have been able to gain "Noble" loyalty status which requires 10,000 points in a mere few hours ?

How ?

Are there short cuts to it ??

I thought to get to Noble it would have required days, perhaps weeks of game play and yet, in a mere few hours this was attained ?

This is ridicolous, IMHO.

 

[Farsight]

Powergaming, careful planning in advance and knowing the system.

You could have done it too if you had done your research.

 

[RaDian FlGith]

Powergaming, careful planning in advance and knowing the system.

You could have done it too if you had done your research.

Yet, ironically, Draconi was under the belief that it wouldn't be possible to accomplish within the first few days.

Definitely something rotten in Denmark.

 

[Farsight]

They underestimated the ingenuity and resourcefulness of the player base.

It has been something that devs fight with in every single game, in every single expansion.

 

[Maplestone]

I thought to get to Noble it would have required days, perhaps weeks of game play and yet, in a mere few hours this was attained ?

Simply put: you thought wrong.

It appears to be a variation of the fame/karma system ... so it takes as long to reach "noble" as it does to reach "lord". No tricks required.

(that said, I'm sitting at just under 3000 on my fresh gargoyle myself ... been too distracted enjoying new content to worry about the gold rush)

 

[popps]

Powergaming, careful planning in advance and knowing the system.

You could have done it too if you had done your research.

I do not like Powergaming.

I hurts, it REALLY hurts the casual players and I think the Developers should have safeguards that protect casual gamers from Powergamers.

It is VERY unfortunate that Design may let powergamers a free go..........

Very unfortunate, IMHO.............

The best defense for casual gamers versus powergaming is DAILY CAPS.

Actually, they also protect against scripting.......

Yet, I do not see Design put in much daily CAPS, did they ??

 

[popps]

Yet, ironically, Draconi was under the belief that it wouldn't be possible to accomplish within the first few days.

Definitely something rotten in Denmark.

REALLY ???????

I mean --> THEY <-- designed the way it works, and thought it would take days and yet in a few hours it was done ?

Some is REALLY mulfunctioning here.

I would have imagined that they had impemented daily CAPs of the max amount of points obtainable per day.

The only way to protect casual gamers against powergamers is daily CAPs and the only people who can do that and so protect casual gamers are the Developers.

Yet, any change and new content I most always see powergamers keep having a field trip...

Will the Developers ever do something to protect casual gamers in games ??

 

[popps]

They underestimated the ingenuity and resourcefulness of the player base.

It has been something that devs fight with in every single game, in every single expansion.

Something that evidently they do not fight the right way, I think........

The ONLY one way to protect casual gamers against powergamers, IMHO, is daily CAPs.

Any other way eventually has work arounds.

Daily CAPs cannot be worked around.

 

[sablestorm]

I do not like Powergaming.

I hurts, it REALLY hurts the casual players and I think the Developers should have safeguards that protect casual gamers from Powergamers.

It is VERY unfortunate that Design may let powergamers a free go..........

Very unfortunate, IMHO.............

The best defense for casual gamers versus powergaming is DAILY CAPS.

Actually, they also protect against scripting.......

Yet, I do not see Design put in much daily CAPS, did they ??

So because some people can't play as much, let's limit the game play of others! Yeah, that's brilliant idea! Some people can only play one hour a day, you know, so let's limit gains to just the first hour of play for everyone!

 

[RichDC]

I get the feeling you might like a daily cap introduced??

That would hurt the casual player as much as the power gamers.

I dont get on much but when i do i want to be able to cap out my loyalty in one sitting, which from what ive read wont be hard at all...maybe they underestimated us as previously mentioned.

Powergamers will ALWAYS get the upper hand and so what! Let them! they put the effort in so let them reap the rewards!

Its the same in life, if you put the effort in you get the rewards. If you put little or no effort in you get little or no reward!

 

[Zayin666]

Definitely something rotten in Denmark.

I can assure you Denmark is just fine!

 

[popps]

So because some people can't play as much, let's limit the game play of others! Yeah, that's brilliant idea! Some people can only play one hour a day, you know, so let's limit gains to just the first hour of play for everyone!

The game is large, varied and there is MANY things which can be done.

If getting cloaks is daily capped and one can only get 1 a day, or getting loyalty points is capped to a certain amount per day, it is not end of gaming for a powergamer but they simply can move on to OTHER activities.

Powergamers can surely play 24 hours a day if they wish so, the only thing that daily CAPs ensure is preventing them from farming the same one activity over and over and over thus harming casual gamers game play.

Since everyone should be entitled to play all areas of the game for the service they pay, often powergamers prevent this to be done because they hoard a certain spawn and force other casual players away.

Setting up daily CAPs would help reduce this and DEFEND casual gamers from Powergamers.

But only the Developers can put this is.........

 

[popps]

Powergamers will ALWAYS get the upper hand and so what! Let them! they put the effort in so let them reap the rewards!

No they won't. They simply could not "IF" daily CAPs for a number of activities were put in.

Farming hurts other players, especially the casual gamers.

Why do powergamers farm ? To gain an edge.

Why are players farming that new creature which gives cloaks ? To sell them for loads to unaware other players, possibly.

But their farming it hurts other players who may want either a cloak for themselves (not 100...) or those needing the key for the Champ Spawn.

If there was a CAP of max 1 cloak per day possible to get, that place would not be farmable, at least not so much and this would not be such a problem for casual players.

I am sorry, but I am convinced that daily CAPs are the solution to defend casual gamers from powergamers and farmers.

That I know of, there is no work around possible to go around CAPs........

 

[RichDC]

Well you are wrong.

It would hurt the casual gamer as much as the powergamers, you missed the most important thing, if you put effort in you get rewards!

You cant moan and complain in life and get given things, i hope to **** you cant in this game either!

 

[Vyal]

Well I just dont see how its possible I been killing stuff for hours and i'm only at 2k

 

[Farsight]

...
if you put effort in you get rewards!

You cant moan and complain in life and get given things, i hope to **** you cant in this game either!

If you put effort in, you get rewards.

This bears repeating.

Twice.

Proper prior planning in addition to careful research gives some people an advantage over others who want things handed to them. Now you say that these people have accomplished this task in the matter of a few hours. Who is to say that they AREN'T casual gamers? I assure you, the research into how to gain loyalty with the queen isn't a task of daunting proportions, and from what I've seen or heard (I haven't even been in the Abyss yet), accomplishing said task isn't exactly difficult either.

What these people have done is set a goal, made a plan, and executed the plan to the best of their ability. You could easily have done the same.

You still can.

 

[Coppelia]

Popps can't do anything, so he wants to remove the rewards others get.


Congratulations to the first Nobles. If no cheating is implied, that's a great achievement.

 

[Tina Small]

One of my characters is at 1129 points after maybe 4 hours of playing, much of that just spent running around and not necessarily killing stuff. Just doing parts of three mini-champ spawns in the Abyss, she jumped about 400 points. She's also picked up a few things to turn in to the museum curator, and lots of imbuing ingredients.

 

[Lady Aalia]

acctually i am quite happy with the system.

Lets see script placers never where much of an issure here.
And to be honest i will rater see any powergamer get the plot then scripters.

Now just running around on Atlantic seems like the 18x18 are gone and taken , there is still tower spots and smaller plots and we are the busiest shard.

I am not sure how others feel, but if i wanted to place i could have easily pulled an all nighter to get the points i needed, just like anyone else.
(yes i get up early in the morning too but jeez would have not been the first all nighter i would have pulled for a game )

 

[Coppelia]

It could have taken more time, Popps would still cry about it. And not even try.

Popps blame players for playing the game. It's not like it was said housing plots would require Noblesse, Noblesse would require 10,000 pts and points would be acquired by hunting mobs in the SA dungeons, huh?
The best players at killing those things get first to Noblesse, and first to housing plots. Whether it would take 3 minutes or 3 days non-stop playing, Popps wouldn't have any chance there. He's not even trying.

That was designed to reward the best players at killing those things. They prepared, they had a competition, some of them won. Those not even partaking should just shut their mouth.

 

[Aurelius]

If done without cheating, I'm impressed with their work, and slightly disappointed that the Devs got outsmarted and didn't get their intended result - but that tends to happen when a few thousand dedicated players who spot all sorts of things about game mechanics and have the time and ability to make use of that are let loose on a product.

As for 'it's not fair', as usual that's plain nonsense. It's always open to us to put in the effort, pre-planning, and time had we so chosen. Mostly, we choose not to because other things attract our attention, in or out of game. So someone who made much more effort than me into a game will get to sell a plot, or build a house, somewhere I can't - as long as they did it within the 'rules', big freaking deal. Best of luck to them.

If they broke the rules in some way, clear the plots and ban the accounts - and then someone else who puts more time and effort than me into the game can have a plot.

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

A lot of people have not even been able to play the expansion because of problems with the UOGamecodes web site and yet some have been able to gain "Noble" loyalty status which requires 10,000 points in a mere few hours ?

How ?

Are there short cuts to it ??

I thought to get to Noble it would have required days, perhaps weeks of game play and yet, in a mere few hours this was attained ?

This is ridicolous, IMHO.

Everythings rediculous IYHO.

 

[Frarc]

Too bad we don't get points for complaining on the boards. Some should have made 1 Million points by now then.

 

[RavenWinterHawk]

I dont power game
I got a 16x16

Heres how i go lucky.


I was killing stuff. TO find stuff.

Said to guy what are you killing for... HE said to place house. Hmmm.

Whats that. He tells me you need 10k.

SO i look i and have like 1874 points.
FIGURE this will take for ever.

I keep exploring for an hour find the volcano with 3 dragons and a 100 corpses of stone sliths. I think wow spawn is awful fast.


I step in and start casting ev and earthquake and I am hitting 5 stone sliths at once. The spawn almost as soon as the die.

I fell on it. 2 hours later or so 10009 noble.

Thats my time frame.
There are still plots open.

 

[popps]

Well you are wrong.

It would hurt the casual gamer as much as the powergamers, you missed the most important thing, if you put effort in you get rewards!

I entirely and wholeheartedly disagree as I do not see how it could hurt casual gamers.

A casual gamer is someone who can play 1, perhaps 2 hours a day if at all and in that time frame they cannot possiby farm that many of any given items or points of loyalty or else.

If the CAPs are done taking into account what a casual gamer can possibly achieve in 1 or 2 hours of daily game play then it would only contain powergamers, NOT casual gamers.

Powergamers see CAPs with terror because there is nothing that can work around them.

Therefore, daily CAPs ARE, IMHO, the best defense of casual gamers against the overpower and dominance of powergamers.......

You cant moan and complain in life and get given things, i hope to **** you cant in this game either!

Who is talking about being "given things" ??
I am talking about NOT LETTING powergamers spoil the game to casual gamers.....

Such a defense of casual gamers, I think, can only be put up by the Designers of the game with daily CAPs to activites.

 

[popps]

If you put effort in, you get rewards.

This bears repeating.

Twice.

Proper prior planning in addition to careful research gives some people an advantage over others who want things handed to them. Now you say that these people have accomplished this task in the matter of a few hours. Who is to say that they AREN'T casual gamers? I assure you, the research into how to gain loyalty with the queen isn't a task of daunting proportions, and from what I've seen or heard (I haven't even been in the Abyss yet), accomplishing said task isn't exactly difficult either.

What these people have done is set a goal, made a plan, and executed the plan to the best of their ability. You could easily have done the same.

You still can.

Maybe I did not explain my concern carefully enough........

Powergaming, farming and other similar activities can be hurtfull to other, more casual players, since they tend to close opportunities that the casual gamers "might" have but fade away simply because others either can play long hours or, worse, can script 24/7.

Just as an example, I remember how Swoop at the beginning was farmed to no end and it was VERY difficult for anyone but the farmers to have a try at it.
Now as another example we have this cloak yielding MOB and already it is hurting keys gatherers not to mention those casual gamers who might want to get their cloak (1, not 100....)...

Not to mention those who had hopes to plant a House in SA but will not be able because some Powergamers made to Noble in just a handfull of hours while casual gamers, who do not have that much time handy, cannot.

These are only a few examples but many more could be made.

I contest the saying that if one puts effort in, one gets rewards.

This ain't necessarily true in real life, IMHO, and I do not see why it should be true in a game especially when someone's powergaming could hurt others' entertainment with the game they play.

There are lots of jobs in real life where people really work hard, for extended periods of time (sometimes even 15+ hours a day), perhaps even risking their lives doing them and yet, their rewards are nowhere close to the hard work that was put in or the risks involved.....

 

[Magdalene]

In short - life's unfair.
I guess we already knew it... most of us knew it...

 

[popps]

The best players at killing those things get first to Noblesse, and first to housing plots. Whether it would take 3 minutes or 3 days non-stop playing, Popps wouldn't have any chance there. He's not even trying.

And can we honestly say that a game yet AGAIN centered at fighters, NOT crafters is a balanced game ?

Are also crafters entitled to their right to have a chance at placing their home in the new lands where they prefer even though they cannot kill that mega super giga Boss for 5,000 loyalty points (just a mere example for sake of the discussion...) ?

What gets annoying and upsetting is seeing yet another example of a game design all focused or mostly focused at hunting, killing and not much at crafting as well WITHOUT having to necessarily having to kill mega giga super MOBs.........

 

[Mitzlplik_SP]

Your opinion of the casual gamer is not the standard to compare against.

If you only have a couple hours to play,thats your problem. I only have an hour sometimes,but I do have days off. I don`t want some assinine idea like caps on items or whatever else to impact my day off play time. On my days off I play alot more than a couple hours and if you wanna call that powergaming,so be it.

Caps on the amount of items one can get has got to be one of the stupidest things I`ve ever heard of.

 

[RichDC]

So because im extremely efficient in the few hours i can play a day and achieve high ranking nobility, or get 20cloaks if i wish, or whatever else needs to be farmed i should be penalised??

Im not a powergamer, im an efficient gamer. I do my research and go after what i need. By your idea i would be extremely harmed by this as i would reach my daily cap in a matter of minutes and have to wait a whole day to do anything else?

It is a pathetic idea, much like most of your moaning "solutions". Why should i be penalised because im good at a game??

Why dont you learn to be better and play the game rather than spend your time moaning about it on boards?? Better yet why dont you quit and find a game you enjoy?? By the sounds of it, it definatly isnt ultima!

 

[popps]

In short - life's unfair.
I guess we already knew it... most of us knew it...

That's not the point.

Real life unfairness is MUCH harder to get fixed and yet, societies give it a try with laws and rules trying to protect individuals.

In an online virtual world, unfairness "could" be addressed more easily with the wonders of programming code.

While real world politicians often find many limits to what they can possibly do to address unfairness, games' designers do not have many of those limitations and can possibly do much more to stop or at least greatly reduce those unfairnesses.

So, in a virtual world I think, personally, that it is unacceptable the concept that life ain't fair and one has to live with it........

 

[Flutter]

Can we move this thread to SnR? All this guy does is SnR...

 

[RichDC]

What gets annoying and upsetting is seeing yet another example of a game design all focused or mostly focused at hunting, killing and not much at crafting as well WITHOUT having to necessarily having to kill mega giga super MOBs.........

Because we all only have one character right???

This isn't a game based around Dungeons & Dragons???

Crafters havent just been given the most godly upgrade???

 

[popps]

So because im extremely efficient in the few hours i can play a day and achieve high ranking nobility, or get 20cloaks if i wish, or whatever else needs to be farmed i should be penalised??

Absolutely because allowing for that exceptional 1 in a thousand casual gamer who might be able to pull that out, opens the room for a LOT MORE powergamers to spoil the game for a much greater number of casual gamers.

Basically, the argument to allow a casual gamer to give it a try opens a door, no, a Gate to powergamers to spoil the game to many others.

Im not a powergamer, im an efficient gamer. I do my research and go after what i need. By your idea i would be extremely harmed by this as i would reach my daily cap in a matter of minutes and have to wait a whole day to do anything else?

As I said, the game is vast and has PLENTY of different things to do.
If one has reached the CAP for a given activity, be it the loyalty points, Bulk Order Deeds, a given item or anything else, they can WELL MOVE onto doing another thing for which they have not yet met their daily CAP.

By moving on onto another activity, they leave room to OTHER players who can then also perform that activity themselves.

Daily CAPs on activities become a balancing force and also get players to have to play their time in the game over a variety of activities, not the same activity for hours on end...

It is a pathetic idea, much like most of your moaning "solutions". Why should i be penalised because im good at a game??

As I said, because that leaves a whole Gate open to powergamers (not to mention scripters...) to possibly spoil the game for others.

Why dont you learn to be better and play the game rather than spend your time moaning about it on boards?? Better yet why dont you quit and find a game you enjoy?? By the sounds of it, it definatly isnt ultima!

Dissenting voices are seldom liked, it seems.......

 

[popps]

Can we move this thread to SnR? All this guy does is SnR...

How so ?

This is a debate about the need for the game of having daily CAPs in certain areas for the better sake of casual gamers.

Hardly a rant at all, but definately a design issue and quite a relevant one, IMHO, considering how powergaming can spoil the game to many other more casual gamers.....

 

[Salya Sin]

OH WOW! I got 220 loyalty pts and I had no clue that was even there. All I did was run the Ter Mur gauntlet... SWEET! I am in LOVE with this expansion! WAY TO GO DEV'S!!!

 

[Taylor]

They earned points via the appropriate channels more quickly than you did. Move past it.

 

[RichDC]

Daily CAPs on activities become a balancing force and also get players to have to play their time in the game over a variety of activities, not the same activity for hours on end...

Why does anyone have the right to tell me how i should be playing??

I happen to like farming on occasions, i dont want to be forced into doing something because lazy...im sorry casual gamers like yourself cant put some effort in!

Dissenting voices are seldom liked, it seems.......

annoying Arseholes who just moan and whine are never liked...EVER

 

[Promathia]

Here are my two Ter Mur Houses! 4 hours of hardwork

 

[Taylor]

Nice!

 

[mr crabs]

popps is there anything u dont b**** about???

 

[popps]

Why does anyone have the right to tell me how i should be playing??

This happens ALL THE TIME, already, when playing the game.

- Can anyone attack other players in Trammel ? = NO
- Can anyone do Champ Spawns for scrolls without having to engage in PvP ? = NO
- Can anyone have a Greater Dragon and ride it too ? = NO
and on
and on
and on

There is PLENTY of things which we CANNOT play as we wished because for balancing reasons that freedom is taken out from us.

Well, I happen to think that for those SAME balancing reasons ALSO daiily CAPs should be put into a series of activities of the game.

It is not like we have now total freedom of doing as we please and daily CAPs would end it because we ALREADY do not have that total freedom......

 

[RichDC]

Aghhh POWERGAMER!

Dont you see your hurting the casual gamer with your hard work and dedication!! People like me who spend all my time on the boards moaning rather than spending time in game working towards a goal will never get a house!!!

 

[RichDC]

This happens ALL THE TIME, already, when playing the game.

- Can anyone attack other players in Trammel ? = NO Wrong, you can attack if you wish in consented PvP
- Can anyone do Champ Spawns for scrolls without having to engage in PvP ? = NO Wrong you can and will get the chance to, sometimes you must fight
- Can anyone have a Greater Dragon and ride it too ? = NO Who cares!
and on
and on
and on

There is PLENTY of things which we CANNOT play as we wished because for balancing reasons that freedom is taken out from us.

Well, I happen to think that for those SAME balancing reasons ALSO daiily CAPs should be put into a series of activities of the game.

It is not like we have now total freedom of doing as we please and daily CAPs would end it because we ALREADY do not have that total freedom......

Just wanted to correct your mistakes there. the biggest i will correct now, i can do anything i wish in the game, within reason. If i want to farm champ spawns all day i can, if i want to PvP i can, if i want to farm i can, if i want to mine/bod/craft i can.

There is no limits on what i can do or when i can do it(unless siege and ROT)

 

[Taylor]

Popps, in the real world, people who work the hardest/smartest get a leg up. This virtual world mirrors this. You can't punish people just because they work harder than you or have more time to devote to UO.

If you want to complain about this truth of life, don't whine about the devs - take it up with the folks who invented democracy. They're the ones you have a beef with.

 

[Farsight]

Item 1. Your final conclusion doesn't match your introduction
Item 2. Your question has been answered (see Raven's post above) and the answer directly contradicts your conclusion.
Item 3. Welcome to my ignore list (should have done this a while back, but it was amusing there for a bit)

 

[LadyNico]

popps, I suspect if you spent a quarter of the time whacking monsters in Ter Mur that you've spent whining about what other folks are doing/getting, you'd have placed an 18x18.

 

[Coppelia]

And can we honestly say that a game yet AGAIN centered at fighters, NOT crafters is a balanced game ?

Yes, we can totally say that. A game centered at fighters can be balanced. To balance it for example, you give rewards for fighting stuff.
Uo is a fighter centered game, whether you want it or not. I told you already, crafting skills are there at the service of fighting. Blacksmithing has no sense whatsoever without fighting. Like 90% of tailoring, 100% of imbuing, 30% of tinkering, cooking and carpentry, 100% of alchemy, 100% of arms lore, 100% of fletching/bowcrafting, 99% of inscription. They are for fighting. Because UO is fighter centered.

So again, what's the problem?

 

[popps]

Popps, in the real world, people who work the hardest/smartest get a leg up. This virtual world mirrors this. You can't punish people just because they work harder than you or have more time to devote to UO.

Really ? I disagree.
There is plenty example in todays' world where hard work does NOT go along with rewards because not enough safeguards are out there to protect individuals.

But that is not even the point.

Personally, I happen to think that one's own right to freedom should never clash with harming others, and often, in ultima online, I see the freedom of being able to farm or powergame as being capable to hurt others in some cases.

My argument was that whenever too much freedom to farm or powergame can possibly harm other, more casual players and their ability to play the game, then this freedom should rightfully be limited by the use of daily CAPs.

I am really sorry that this was seen as a rant because it is NOT.

It attempts at being a honest discussion about design issues revolving around powergaming and casual gaming and how one can harm the other and look at ways to make it less a problem through the use of Daily CAPs.

If you want to complain about this truth of life, don't whine about the devs - take it up with the folks who invented democracy. They're the ones you have a beef with.

That is what civil rights battles are for. A lot of good people fights in the societies for civil rights every day that goes by.

In a game, a player can only appeal to the developers to address issues which are seen as not right.

I was merely trying to discuss this with this thread.

 

[RichDC]

100% of alchemy, So again, what's the problem?

I got to disagree with you on this, its only 99.9% fighting related. ;p

Wisp statue anyone?