Hi PvM Tamers, have you farmed recently? (BAD COMBAT SYSTEM)

[Candy Cane]

Wenchkin please come to cove 3 with me and then make those same statements. You will find that there is no way possible to do as you say and not get attacked by most monsters. If I can't hunt solo with my Gdragon on level 3 what is the point of being a tamer. I am not asking to do level 4 just the entrance to 3, which until this poorly thought out change was completely do able. I have always died on occasions but this is freaking stupid, vet my dragon one time and everything wants a piece of me, now I will admit I am quite tasty but please lets get this fixed so having vet isn't useless.

 

[MalagAste]

No this is another "Drawback" to the Changes.. I'm in the Weld taming some CuSidhe...... however there are loads of other things down there but I'm not worried... after all I have good Karma.... so as per usual I tame a CuSidhe and bring him down to get rid of it... and next thing you know I have a changeling on me..... no biggy I lure him down to the pixes and.. I get agro'd on from Swoop.... 'Why? Because I cast Mass Cure on myself!!!! At first I was like WTF... did I do something to agro Swoop?????? No not that I could think of.... Yes can't even heal MYSELF without getting agro from Swoop and the paragon dryads ...... No healing others no healing MYSELF..... Curing MYSELF..... causes me to get agro from anything nearby........ WTF is up with that BS?

Wasn't happening all the time but was happening often enough to make me take notice.... and I am extremely unhappy about that....

 

[Bleak]

We will be addressing some of your concerns with the healing aggro next week.

 

[CovenantX]

I'm beginning to wonder if the peacemaking skill was nerfed or changed in this publish as well to make it less useful.

Peacemaking was.... Indirectly nerfed, the changes made to healing = aggression applies to healing yourself, even when monsters aren't flagged on anything.

This kind of, defeats the purpose of Peacemaking TBH (I always thought Peacing to be completely useless), except the whole exploit with peacing (and many other skills, which is now fixed =D)
but anyway, the point of peacing... or the most common use of peacing, is to "drop aggro" so you can heal yourself, but since everything immediately re-flags you as you heal yourself... Peacing is only useful due to the bard songs.


I don't see why they didn't just make this change :

Looting rights distribution update

Corrected issue which prevented players healing scores from being calculated correctly in loot final score.
Healing now applies aggression towards targets aggressors. Example: Warrior A is fighting Mob B. Healer C heals Warrior A and now has aggressed Mob B. (Does not apply in PvP)
DPS weight has been adjusted to be closer to Pre Publish 74 in final loot score.

and leave it at that.

I don't see how Aggression helps one to receive looting rights... because you (dps), need to deal 10% of a mobs max hp to receive looting rights (I believe it's actually lower than 10%)
you don't even need to be flagged on a mob to get this btw.

So, it makes no sense how adding "Aggression" fixes an issue that caused healers to Not receive looting rights.

 

[Wenchkin]

Wenchkin please come to cove 3 with me and then make those same statements. You will find that there is no way possible to do as you say and not get attacked by most monsters. If I can't hunt solo with my Gdragon on level 3 what is the point of being a tamer. I am not asking to do level 4 just the entrance to 3, which until this poorly thought out change was completely do able. I have always died on occasions but this is freaking stupid, vet my dragon one time and everything wants a piece of me, now I will admit I am quite tasty but please lets get this fixed so having vet isn't useless.

I did a fairly long hunt in Covetous with an average cu and then a GD, while you can't use every tactic in there at any given time you should be able to survive with the right choice of tactics.

I got ganked going in the entrance when I arrived, and only had the cu so it took a while to get the hang of it and kill everything to get in the door. Once I cleared that I kept the entrance area clear and initially I would send my pet to attack something then call it right back to me. That usually brought maybe a couple of critters in behind the pet and I didn't have any attack me when I vetted them out of melee reach. Basically I tried to keep them behind the pet and myself in the front. At one point I went right into the centre to see if I could cope with spawn from all directions. As long as I kept an eye for fresh spawn and moved so my pet was between it and myself, I could carry on fine. After a bit I started provoking and discoing the spawn around the GD and that went fine too.

But try clearing a safe bit at the entrance first, then send the pet in, call it back to you immediately and you shouldn't get a whole room of spawn at once to gank you. Obviously the further into the spawn you send your pet to "pick up" that monster, the more others you can collect. I started off overly cautious and then got a bit braver.

I don't know what is causing you to get attacked, but I haven't suggested stuff without testing it. It sounds like we're going to get some changes now, so hopefully things might be easier to manage pretty soon.

Wenchy

 

[Flutter]

What was the relationship between your guild and your friends guild?

Can I ask please why these changes were put in?
Were people complaining somewhere other than stratics about something involving healers? It seemed to be working so well the way it was.

 

[hen]

We will be addressing some of your concerns with the healing aggro next week.

Should have tested it first huh?

 

[sibble]

Can I ask please why these changes were put in?
Were people complaining somewhere other than stratics about something involving healers? It seemed to be working so well the way it was.

THANK YOU

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT ​

Just undo everything!

 

[startle]

Perhaps a revert is in order... Re-evaluate... If you leave it as is - I'm afraid you'll lose more of an already anemic population...

Just sayin....

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

My problem keeps arising when my PvM dexxer is fighting something and something else targets me. When that happens I stop hitting the thing in front of me. This HAS to be changed and can't imagine it's working as intended.

I have also been having that happen when doing Unbounds. Not all the time but enough to be annoying.
Not a real big deal as of yet but has made me put down my coffee a couple times
And that's not right. I should be able to kill everything solo on my overpowered Sampire while also drinking my coffee. As I have been doing for years.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

THANK YOU

IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT ​

Just undo everything!

I personally don't do many events but weren't a lot of people on stratics and ingame complaining that they were not getting looting rights when healing friends/mates?

 

[Kyronix]

Can I ask please why these changes were put in?
Were people complaining somewhere other than stratics about something involving healers? It seemed to be working so well the way it was.

As Bleak stated elsewhere, the changes were meant to address an issue where healers were not getting looting rights. We received reports of this over a period of time from a variety of sources, including stratics. We should have a publish out next week to address feedback concerns from the past week. Thanks everyone for the feedback and hope you are having a great weekend

 

[Lady Storm]

ok I took out a less perfect tamer yesterday afternoon to be fair to the Dev.. and tried the spawn with a average beginner with a lower pet (frenzy ostard) ......
Let's just say.....things didn't go too well... in fact she was killed more times then I for one cared to be and it was a fair amount of spawn.... nothing too big or over the top even.
The problem is not what your attacking or what's behind that creature... its what is AROUND YOU.
This is what is the focus of the debate.
Everything that is around you thinks your target one and goes grey.... Everything.
Nothing I tried stopped them teleporting didn't.. invising helped for a second then you get retargeted.
We even gated out and back and they reset back to us....
I was being fair in this and tested it on stuff the older players wouldn't touch as being challenging but this is what a new player will go after.
DEV listen up... this might work for the elders of UO... but if this happens to a new player...... say good bye to them cause they will walk when they get so mad to spit nickels as I was getting.

 

[Flutter]

As Bleak stated elsewhere, the changes were meant to address an issue where healers were not getting looting rights. We received reports of this over a period of time from a variety of sources, including stratics. We should have a publish out next week to address feedback concerns from the past week. Thanks everyone for the feedback and hope you are having a great weekend

Killing the healer isn't the way to do that. *laugh* I'd never not gotten looting rights from something I though I should have and I've created a character specifically for healing my alliance in PvM situations. Perhaps there wasn't so much of an issue with healers not getting looting rights as there was an issue with user error? That's to say quite frankly, if it was working fine for me (and quite a few others) it should be working as it should and the error would then be on the player with the problem.

 

[The Zog historian]

"The first thing we do, let's discourage all the tamers."

 

[startle]

As Bleak stated elsewhere, the changes were meant to address an issue where healers were not getting looting rights. We received reports of this over a period of time from a variety of sources, including stratics. We should have a publish out next week to address feedback concerns from the past week. Thanks everyone for the feedback and hope you are having a great weekend

That's certainly good enough for me... Thank you for the post....

 

[sibble]

I personally don't do many events but weren't a lot of people on stratics and ingame complaining that they were not getting looting rights when healing friends/mates?

I do as many events as possible on LS, GL and sometimes ATL. There is so much healing going on I wouldn't be surprised if people saying they weren't getting loot rights is because they are over-healing. That is my assumption though, and the only thing to make me thing that is because I have witnessed healing loot-rights working.

TY Kyronix, looking forward to next week

 

[Aurelius]

As Bleak stated elsewhere, the changes were meant to address an issue where healers were not getting looting rights. We received reports of this over a period of time from a variety of sources, including stratics. We should have a publish out next week to address feedback concerns from the past week. Thanks everyone for the feedback and hope you are having a great weekend

I'm baffled how letting healers gain aggro in any way helps them get looting rights....

How does that work? Surely their chance at such rights would based on the amount of healing, pet and player, that they do, not 'do they get attacked by a mob they have not damaged'? Or was it intended that their 'improved' looting chance was 'balanced' by them suddenly being attacked?

 

[Prince Erik]

Killing the healer isn't the way to do that. *laugh*

OMG that's funny!! (and spot on too!) I've decided to work on BoD's for the time being until something gets done with the healer agro issue and the finger numbing mob retarget stuff going on. Apparently sampire leeching life from something counts as healing yourself so every monster in sight retargets you breaking YOUR targeting in the process... for every leech... even with monsters who already were agro'ed on you... and you're left targeting the farthest mob away. My finger was worn out after 30 minutes in the discard cavern from all the double clicking I had to do. Seriously, these changes are quite a bit severe and make playing SOOOOO NOT fun for me. I'm joining the "Put it back or else" club.

-P.E.

 

[Lady Storm]

I shall sort castles junk for the next week and give the Dev time to return this fiasco back to normal.
After that little test for beginers... my fingers are sore.

 

[Arrgh]

We will be addressing some of your concerns with the healing aggro next week.

I hope it will be more than just addressing concerns and more like removing what has been implemented.

 

[Arrgh]

Wenchkin please come to cove 3 with me and then make those same statements. You will find that there is no way possible to do as you say and not get attacked by most monsters. If I can't hunt solo with my Gdragon on level 3 what is the point of being a tamer. I am not asking to do level 4 just the entrance to 3, which until this poorly thought out change was completely do able. I have always died on occasions but this is freaking stupid, vet my dragon one time and everything wants a piece of me, now I will admit I am quite tasty but please lets get this fixed so having vet isn't useless.

I hear ya Candy, it's all rainbows and unicorns for some people it appears eh? I can't play any of my tamers, my dexers, mages but I can play my stealther/mage/mystic...it appears the only way not to get aggro'ed into frustration is to not be seen period. I would like to see this mess completely removed and forgotten about.

 

[spoonyd]

As Bleak stated elsewhere, the changes were meant to address an issue where healers were not getting looting rights. We received reports of this over a period of time from a variety of sources, including stratics. We should have a publish out next week to address feedback concerns from the past week. Thanks everyone for the feedback and hope you are having a great weekend

Thank you for your quick reply. Please disregard Goldberg's sarcastic comments per the usual.

 

[Wenchkin]

I hear ya Candy, it's all rainbows and unicorns for some people it appears eh? I can't play any of my tamers, my dexers, mages but I can play my stealther/mage/mystic...it appears the only way not to get aggro'ed into frustration is to not be seen period. I would like to see this mess completely removed and forgotten about.

It's not a case of rainbows and unicorns at all. I have a lot of tamers, they're my main template. It would end UO for me if these changes were so lethal. I have absolutely NOTHING to gain from making this sound like rainbows and unicorns. Quite the opposite.

However, I'm aware that this code may be modified rather than removed. If we all just scream "it's crap, change it back" that doesn't help us in the long run. That gets us a fix the devs "thought" we wanted rather than something based on constructive feedback. The devs have published enough hated changes for me to know that not liking something isn't enough for it to be changed. It made more sense to use my taming experience and try out some options and try to give feedback beyond "noooo!!"

I went to Cove 3 specifically to see how bad it was and whether a tamer could adapt tactics to suit it. I found that I could and I've tried to explain those tactics so others can try them. Given my template/gear and pet were all average and I was out of practice with said template, it seemed a fair test considering most tamers are better equipped with better pets than I usually run. I didn't use bard skills till I'd assured myself it was feasible without them, for example. That wouldn't have been a fair test had I gone in and voked and discorded the spawn So I didn't. Cove 3 was new to me, so if any tamer was going to have their butt handed to them, it was me. Now, let's hope the devs do find the issues that some are having and fix them. But if not then I'll keep trying to work out tactics and see if we can adapt to the change.

Wenchy

 

[Melchior1]

We will be addressing some of your concerns with the healing aggro next week.

Addressing concerns?!?!?!?!?! How bout asking the people what they want before your devs go and shoot down this lovely game any further. I swear if I were a smart man I'd say this is some kind of conspiracy to get people to stop playing UO. These last few weird trashy hop-ups we've been thrown is ridiculous. First refinements, and now screw up ALL tamers out there. Gosh do you guys ever sit down and think your stuff through or do you guys pull stuff from a hat and assume we will like it no matter what? STOP JACKIN UP THE FREAKIN GAME ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sibble]

Perhaps there wasn't so much of an issue with healers not getting looting rights as there was an issue with user error? That's to say quite frankly, if it was working fine for me (and quite a few others) it should be working as it should and the error would then be on the player with the problem.

My thoughts exactly... I still believe that these healers that were complaining about not getting loot rights were over-healing (healing someone or something that is already at full health.) And if over-healing is supposed to give you loot rights, well then that should be looked at as well.

If as many people complained about not getting loot-rights from healing as there are replies in this thread, then I'd say hey there's a problem maybe it needs a fix. I just don't see where those threads are...

 

[Arrgh]

It's not a case of rainbows and unicorns at all. I have a lot of tamers, they're my main template. It would end UO for me if these changes were so lethal. I have absolutely NOTHING to gain from making this sound like rainbows and unicorns. Quite the opposite.

However, I'm aware that this code may be modified rather than removed. If we all just scream "it's crap, change it back" that doesn't help us in the long run. That gets us a fix the devs "thought" we wanted rather than something based on constructive feedback. The devs have published enough hated changes for me to know that not liking something isn't enough for it to be changed. It made more sense to use my taming experience and try out some options and try to give feedback beyond "noooo!!"

I went to Cove 3 specifically to see how bad it was and whether a tamer could adapt tactics to suit it. I found that I could and I've tried to explain those tactics so others can try them. Given my template/gear and pet were all average and I was out of practice with said template, it seemed a fair test considering most tamers are better equipped with better pets than I usually run. I didn't use bard skills till I'd assured myself it was feasible without them, for example. That wouldn't have been a fair test had I gone in and voked and discorded the spawn So I didn't. Cove 3 was new to me, so if any tamer was going to have their butt handed to them, it was me. Now, let's hope the devs do find the issues that some are having and fix them. But if not then I'll keep trying to work out tactics and see if we can adapt to the change.

Wenchy

I must say, while I don't agree about modifying the code on live servers instead of a test server (and even then I find it *the fix* questionable), I do like your positive attitude! Teach me!!

 

[Candy Cane]

I think now that the DEV's have addressed the issue, I plan to take a wait and see attitude. I do agree with most everyone as far as looting rights I have never not gotten them when I think I should have, besides I still have no idea how that would make them need to change vetting of pets. Plus targeting issues have nothing to do with healers not getting looting rights. The biggest mistake was not testing this before letting it go live, one day, one hour, or whatever it was wasn't enough. Please next time you plan to make changes this big at least give it a month on test to see how it works. Thanks for at least responding finally and hopefully you will bring us a fix we can all work with.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Ok Kyronix get the boys together and put it back the way it was....
I took my 120/120/120 pure tamer mage and her pet rock GD to dastard just to test this nutty idea you phased in.... Ruby at first was fine didn't need to heal her fighting a wyvern... ok so far no agro to me.. then a nasty little squirt of a drake thought itself a macho dragon and started something that before would have been a good giggle...
Not to now.. the minute he hit the GD who I told put it in its place.. a wild GD materialized next to it and within 30 seconds not only was I and the GD running for the exit but I was 1 hair from death 1 Band-Aid agro'd everything in sight!!! and they skipped the damn pet rock GD!!!!
You got a short bit of time to fix this buddy..... I am not amused and the only thing keeping me in the game right now is my Tamers... that's 53 accounts worth of cold hard cash a month.... and I am not alone in this one.. was on Sonoma today and had many tamers tell me the same thing.. they NOT HAPPY.

What your likely seeing, is the fact that when something spawns, it's not aggroed on anything, and normally takes a few secs to aggro onto anything within sight (which is usually the closest target). What likely happened is that you were applying a bandage to your pet, a GD spawned, and before he could aggro on your pet, your bandy kicked in, healing your pet, and so the wild GD instantly aggroed onto you, even if your pet is closer to him, since your pet hadn't initiated any hostility against it.
This means that while Tamers would be more or less fine against monsters that they've dragged away from the main spawn (so long as they maintain outside of melee range), if a Tamer tries healing his pet inside an active spawn point, monsters will aggro onto the tamer frequently, even if their pet is closer to the monster. Usually it'd take 3-5 secs of a fresh spawned monster to decide to attack the closest target (your pet), but healing between the time of the spawn and the time of the aggro decision, will force the monster to aggro you immediately on heal. Now, healing your pet inside of a champ spawn area, is pretty much guaranteed to get groups of monsters coming after the tamer, since monsters are constantly respawning inside Champ zones.

 

[The Zog historian]

What your likely seeing, is the fact that when something spawns, it's not aggroed on anything, and normally takes a few secs to aggro onto anything within sight (which is usually the closest target). What likely happened is that you were applying a bandage to your pet, a GD spawned, and before he could aggro on your pet, your bandy kicked in, healing your pet, and so the wild GD instantly aggroed onto you, even if your pet is closer to him, since your pet hadn't initiated any hostility against it.

It's a good attempt at an explanation, but that isn't what happens.

I tested this in Shame 3, doing my usual four blood elementals simultaneously. Between peacemaking and invising myself, I order my dragon to attack each one, then go about discording and keeping my pet healed. Prior to the publish, the bloods would all stay on my dragon. Since the publish, healing the GD causes them to flag on me, as we know. Once my GD hasn't hit a particular blood for a quarter minute or so, it comes over and attacks me.

 

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Once my GD hasn't hit a particular blood for a quarter minute or so, it comes over and attacks me.

Yeah, it seems that if a creature/pet isn't receiving damage from what it's attacking, it's AI will "disengage" after a certain period of time. This can be seen with sicking multiple spellcasting pets (or even just Mana using pets) onto a single target, and after like 20 secs, all but the one being attacked will cease spellcasting or using Specials, even if they still have Mana. They'll still auto attack it though.
This AI behavior puts a serious restriction on multiple Mana using pets during long fights. This is very easily noticeable during fights with the Despise Bosses. Most people use Darkmanes to tank the bosses, since they're so tough, but any other pet will cease using Spells or Specials, while the Darkmane under attack is the only one that keeps using Mana on AIs. This makes Nabas (who potentially have the highest damage output of all the Despise "controllables") pretty much worthless if they're not the one tanking, which they usually don't since they're not all that tough.

 

[Lady Storm]

PlayerSkillFTW I do understand your theory but its not what is happening at all the different locations.
I tried Destard, Shame, Covetus, Fire... even open places like orc forts and such with a minor tamer.
The pet is holding the agro till you put 1 Band-Aid on.
Then all hell breaks loose.
They don't pay any attention to the pet they want you.
I understand Event healers feel they were not getting looting rights and don't work for nothing in their book... but to be honest this "fix" is not the answer and is hurting game play.
If I was a young player with a lower end pet this would put me off taming and hurt any thought about sticking with the game...

 

[Roland of Atlantic]

For those who say we should not whine about the new changes if we didn't test them out in TC first... Most of us are consumers of finished products. We don't pay to test a product that should be brought to market in a finished state. Do we buy a prototype car to drive around and test it to see if it will not erupt into a fireball with it's new ignition system, or if the new airbags will work in a rollover? I for one, pay to play the game, not test it. Beta testers should be paid employees or at least avid current players who get their accounts free for their beta testing services.

They might as well just close down test center if any new changes go on for 2 days and then go global without examining the results first.

 

[weins201]

I too am outraged that the devs tried to improve monster AI so that they no longer attack my pet mindlessly and ignore me completely. Why should they not attack my hulking great dragon and try to kill the annoying little healer instead? Now that I can't play my tamer semi-AFK any more I'll definitely be closing my account

DLTDHYOTA

 

[weins201]

Perhaps yupui should all learn how to use a pet, never was it designed that you can have 5 or more Mobs agro on your pet with no risk to yourself, This fix is AWSOME, learn how to actually play with a pet not just as one ****** said "semi AFK' how pathetic is that. I have been and will continue ot fight critters with my pet, and as always keep one or max two targets beating on him at a time. and NO they dont just retarget you as everyone is whinning about, yes they put oyu on their agro list but if you keep your pet between you and the target ( as you should) all is well.

This is an AWSOME fix, but sadley it doesnt do crap for PvP which needs it more than ANYTHING.

WAAAA whine about playing a game nit just standing there under your pet and hoping that you are safe. Now you actually have to play and not just run in and say all kill. LMAO

TY for this.

 

[MalagAste]

Well I was just taming CuSidhe in the Weld and after getting one upset with me while trying to tame all I did was try to heal myself and all the sudden a Paragon Cu is all over me... next thing I know I'm face down in the grass... I thought well was odd? Wonder what I did?

Then a couple Cu's later I again had to heal myself and next thing I know Swoop is kicking my bum all over the place. I was like WTF I didn't do anything to him! Then again attacked by a Paragon Cu.... and a Paragon Dryad...... was a FAR more challenging taming process than I care for. If I wanted a big fight I would have tried taming Greater Dragons...

Anyway Kyronix and Bleak I'm sure I'll be testing it again soon... and hopefully I'll no longer have to run for my life because I chose to cast Greater Heal on myself.

 

[weins201]

did you karma dip negative???

 

[Kylie Kinslayer]

did you karma dip negative???

Had the same thing happen in Weld today and was at 8k karma. So negative karma wasn't the issue.

 

[Mr. Smither1]

Have some way to break aggo, now once something flags it never gives up aggo even if you die. Forget about running healing bard buffs for people in a party unless your bard is tank.

 

[Petra Fyde]

Some trolls, and responses to trolls, have been removed.
In the light of the recent ammendment to the issue raised in this thread I'm considering this particular discussion closed.