Hello EA. 90 point breath damage from tamed greater Dragons is a bit much,

[o2bavr6]

Either way, the devs have already made it clear that they are working on it and specifically mentioned that GD are one of the pets to be adjusted.

You are correct here.

My only concern is that they say a lot of things that they never ever follow through with.

Or they do follow through but it took them 4 years to do it.

 

[azmodanb]

it doesn't matter. all pvp'er are rich they don't care about 10k

No one knows that answer to the question?

Yeah they do ... a tamed pet is an extension of the player. They get the insurance.

 

[Ailish]

Well for the last 10 years all I do is PvP and I have well over 70Phys and 89 Fire resist on my suit, yet the GD does around 65+ damage to me with Firebreath.

So how does this fall into your equation?

Then you might not actually be getting hit with firebreath, you are likely getting hit with something else, or a combo. Or, the tamer (or dragon before that was fixed) are cursing you (your #'s are very consistent with that possibility). Come on people! Firebreath is NOT the only attack the dragon has! They don't even do it that often. Why are you all not whining that the MELE attck be lowered? THAT is mean, vicious, and a HELL of alot more dangerous than the firebreath!

Again, what happens when the Dev's listen to all the howling, nerf the dragon breath, and you STILL get hit that hard by the Mele? Are you going to come back and say "Oh, wait, um, excuse me, sorry, I was wrong, it WASNT the firebreath that was the problem after all ..."

 

[o2bavr6]

Then you might not actually be getting hit with firebreath, you are likely getting hit with something else, or a combo. Or, the tamer (or dragon before that was fixed) are cursing you (your #'s are very consistent with that possibility). Come on people!

I can say that the GD was about 6 tiles from me and there was no one else around other than my red guildmates.

The only thing that came at me was the firebreath, and I checked my journal to see if anyone hidden was attacking me as well.

Also I have tried it with guildmates who have GD's in areas that we knew we were alone.

When you have your health bar open to see what happens to you resists, like when being cursed, and nothing changes other than your health dropping by over 65HP, there is something wrong.

BTW, I was able to repeat this with my guildie many times to make sure nothing was missed.

 

[Ailish]

Hmm ... seems like something is wrong there, then. That should not be happening ...

 

[Wenchkin]

You are correct here.

My only concern is that they say a lot of things that they never ever follow through with.

Or they do follow through but it took them 4 years to do it.

With the amount of anti tamer complaints these days, they'll fix it just to get some peace lol. It's been mentioned enough times lately that I think the fix could tentatively be expected this year, I certainly hope so.

On Siege, I'd have thought it would be better to remove pet bonding altogether for fighting pets. I have no huge issue with fire breath changes, but I doubt those would be enough. A week later it'd be "nerf their claws" or "they still cast spells 20 screens away" etc etc.

Then, if the devs were to tackle tamer issues on Siege based solely on reduced damage, they'd surely need to nerf damage further on Siege to allow for players wearing uninsured kit in PvP. Which is why I think it would be more sensible to drop fighting pet bonding then apply any damage modifications which are made to prod shards. I presume easier to code and thus more likely to be achieved.

Wenchy

 

[T_Amon_from_work]

in case you didn't know.

But hey, take your time fixing it. I know it takes time sorting through ten year old code. It's not like it's a new addition or anything.

Thanks!!

<Devils Advocate mode = ON>
Well, not to rain on your parade or anything, but if you recall the days immediately after the Feb 14th introduction of GDs many posts were made about the huge amount of damage they dish when untamed!

I won't say you were in the mix, but in general many posters who asked for a **slight** cutback on damages and abilities were told to well ... adapt or avoid. <shrug>
<Devils Advocate mode = OFF>

I don't PvP, but I have to assume these buggers do hurt even when tamed - as you point out. And ... as a PvM player, I do agree ... some cutback on this is in order, tamed or not.

 

[Yalp]

But you seem to be the only one in this thread or any other who has any issue at all with a reduction or cap on greater dragon breath damage in PvP only.

Therefore, I can only conclude that you do indeed understand that breath damage for greaters is overpowered and are using one yourself. Consequently you have no desire to lose your advantage.

Merchant, please be careful when you make assumptions and however subtle, accusations about me and/or my playstyle. With the utmost respect sir, you don't know me or you'd have never been able to write such things about me.

First, the facts are:

1) I am not the only one who does not agree that fire breath does not need adjustment on Greater Dragons. I am, however, one of the few voices on this thread who does not agree with your point. I can assume why the majority of forum posters who also do not agree have not added their thoughts to this one post (out of the dozens out there)... but that would be presumptuous of me.

2) Again and again, the facts have proven, there is no need to cap the damage of fire breath. As this is not an issue on production shards. (I do concede it may be an issue for some individuals, but so it getting a bod for Val hammers).

3) I add my opposition to your opinion in the hopes that if (huge IF) the EA PTB read these forums and take action without doing their research, they will see at least some voices who do not agree. Which may or may not prompt them to do research before they bring out the nerf stick.

 

[galefan2004]

in case you didn't know.

But hey, take your time fixing it. I know it takes time sorting through ten year old code. It's not like it's a new addition or anything.

Thanks!!

Hey Moonglow...

Some how this got to the second page and you didn't make a new thread about it on the first page.

Unless EA is blind they probably have seen the 300+ posts that people have made about greater dragons in PvP because they simply can't learn to group PvP and outheal the dragons and out run the dragons and bring a peacer or discorder to take care of the dragons. They simply think that because they have an uber template that in and of itself could be considered overpowered (pretty much any archer or a necro mage for example) that they should be able to take tamers with no real threat, and they simply hate it when tamers turn the tables on them.

 

[galefan2004]

Of course then they would start crying that the dragons bite too hard, or that their tails are too long, or they have body odor or whatever else they can think of.

No they would go back to whining about fully trained hiyrus which are still by far the best in field pvp pet. The greater dragons are nice against house hiders though. They would be saying that no pet should have the ability to dismount or something of the sort.

Lets face it...Moonglow hates tamers. Moonglow openly admits to hating tamers. Moonglow will not stop till every single tamer is relegated to using their pets to farm mongbats at 120 taming skill. The only question is where all this hostility comes from. Maybe someone wasn't loved enough as a child and his parents now play tamers?

 

[galefan2004]

It may be ok for fighting in trammel against monster, but in PvP i think this animals should not be so strong. Maybe a special tribal spear, which kills this anaimals with 2 - 3 hits or a special spellbook, i have no special idea how to fix this up.

Great idea. You should be able to kill pets in 2-3 hits. We all know its hard to paralyze them or kite them. Thats why I can lead tame...because monsters move so incredibly fast that I can't possibly outrun them. I think pets move even faster because half the time I'm outrunning my greater while on foot. If you can't learn to kite a dog then you have bigger problems then you should have, and you probably shouldn't be pvping.

 

[galefan2004]

No one knows that answer to the question?

You get no gold if the pet gets the killing blow. You get gold if your pet weakens the player and you get the final blow. You get justice either which way as long as you are a blue killing a red. Part of the reason you will never see a huge influx of tamers in PvP is because tamers benefit very little from actually making kills (outside of possibly raiding a spawn) because they pay out money when they die but they don't get any money when they actually make kills unless they are doing it themselves and there are much better templates to kill people with to gain gold.

 

[galefan2004]

You are wrong about this..

I have a LJ Swords char. with 120 tactics. Someone who is curse or just has a naturally low resist can be hit with a crushing blow from a axe for up to 80+ damage (consecrate weapon to hit lowest). It isnt common (I can only remember maybe 2 people I could do it to), because most people take great care with their armor, and usually I hit someone for around 40.

Gee I wonder how much a necro/mage/scribe can FS for after they have you cursed, evil omened and corpse skinned....I'm betting they can hit 80 (and probably one shot anyone without 70+ fire resist).

 

[Splup]

Havent read all posts but here's my humble opinion as Field PvP:er.

I don't hang out much in Yew, cause I think it's just house/guardzone running. So don't know much if G dragons are causing troubles there, even thou there's large open space.

I do make a Lot of spawns and harrowers, and in small spaces those things are DEADLY. This isnt only GD:s problem, cu sidhe or mare+beetle cause as much troubles I think. I know, pets are strong so why shouldnt they be strong in PvP also? Tamers have used 200+ skill points on taming etc. I know it's not logical that pets dmg would be lower against players then monsters, but I think that's how it should be. Im not saying anything about do tamers belong to PvP or not. What I personally dislike is the fact that pets cast spells / fire breath from Veeeery far away, just like monsters... If pets couldnt cast further away then normal players it would help a lot.

But This is a Game, and playing should be fun. PvP is fun already no doupt (I wouldnt play if it wasnt...). I just think _most_ of the PvP community would enjoy PvP even more if there wasnt almost instakilling pets/pet combos around. That is my Only argument for why pets should get hit by Nerfhammer considering PvP.

I read someone saying that there's other very strong temps around and it's true. Proper necromage is very strong in hands of Skillful player, but just crap if you lack PvP skills. Tamer is very strong in hands of any player. Necromage needs a lot of timing spells etc. Tamer doesnt need that much. That is what I think annoys ppl, the fact that tamer is very strong in hands of player who lacks PvP experience nor has trained PvP a bit.

 

[Anakena]

Well for the last 10 years all I do is PvP and I have well over 70Phys and 89 Fire resist on my suit, yet the GD does around 65+ damage to me with Firebreath.

So how does this fall into your equation?

I tested this and it is not possible. Against 70+ fire resist you cannot get more than 60 damage firebreath. You was prolly under the effect of a spell reducing you fire resist, like vampiric form.

 

[Eslake]

You don't PvP much do you?

Much? No. Probably not more than an hour and a half a day 3-4 days a week. But I do not PvP AS a tamer if that is what you mean, it would be a waste of time.

You can't "distract" pets anymore. They fixed that. I can double click a pet until my mouse breaks, it isn't going to do anything except what the tamer tells it to do.

Additionally, you can get your pet to attack without even being visible. You tell it to guard you, hide, then double click your target and it will attack while the tamer remains completely hidden.

I don't know why you're having trouble distracting pets, I do it all of the time. Hiryu seem to be more single-minded than other pets but 1 second of hiding the target gets them refocussed.

Okay, first Eslake - I understand that you are trying to make good points, but the fact is, you DON'T PvP, and PvP IS different. Period. It just is. The damage from the dragon isnt, but the tamer CAN have Taming/Lore/Ninjitsu/Hiding/Wep Skill/Tactics. Smoke bombs guarantee the hide. Or they can have Magery with a mage wep and bolas. Most PvP tamers DO NOT have vet. Think about that.

Actually I DO PvP, quite regularly.
No, most tamers who Plan to PvP don't take Vet, but then most tamers don't temp up for PvP in the first place. They just die to easily to make it worth the time.

Tame/Lore/Nin/Hide/Weapon/Tactics - Would mean you are saying you have trouble fighting someone who cannot move due to hiding w/o stealth and has no means of healing themselves. The first time you turn a corner you've lost them And the GD and can just clear and run back and put the tamer in the dirt.
Swapping Weapon skill for magery and using a mage staff lets them invis and heal at least, but still doesn't allow them to sick a dragon on you while invis unless you're standing around waiting for it to happen (since they still cannot move).

Most tamers don't have a clue how to PvP, and most of those who do aren't using GDs but Hiryu (for obvious reasons).
Tamers with GDs are popping up here and there, but they all die just as fast as they ever did. Faster actually since they cannot be mounted and most haven't bothered to stone for Ninjitsu.

Just because I have to react a half second faster against a GD than a beetle doesn't mean I am going to cry for nerfs.


All of that aside, I say cap the breath. Whatever the max is for a normal dragon, just make it the cap for all dragons in PvP.
It won't stop (or even slow down) the complaints, but it will eliminate the only Valid complaint.

 

[Cacio]

I didnt read all but one year ago player were wining that destard was
to easy.That dragons are the weakest animals in uo.And that in original fansasy Sagas the Dragon is the strongest mop.Because of this ,devs change the Dragon and player post one year ago that destard is a challenge again and they are happy.And now after one year such a wining post?
You can still kill the lesser Dragons in Destard if the greater are to strong.

 

[o2bavr6]

I tested this and it is not possible. Against 70+ fire resist you cannot get more than 60 damage firebreath. You was prolly under the effect of a spell reducing you fire resist, like vampiric form.

Ummm no. try again. I am a real PvPer, I dont need to use stupidity like vampiric form.. ROFL.

Also what part of me saying i had myhealth bar open to see what my stats and resists were did you miss?

And yes it is possible I did it repeatedly.

 

[o2bavr6]

I didnt read all but one year ago player were wining that destard was
to easy.That dragons are the weakest animals in uo.And that in original fansasy Sagas the Dragon is the strongest mop.Because of this ,devs change the Dragon and player post one year ago that destard is a challenge again and they are happy.And now after one year such a wining post?
You can still kill the lesser Dragons in Destard if the greater are to strong.

This discussion is in regards to PvP not PvM.

 

[Yalp]

All of that aside, I say cap the breath. Whatever the max is for a normal dragon, just make it the cap for all dragons in PvP.
It won't stop (or even slow down) the complaints, but it will eliminate the only Valid complaint.

The problem with that, and rightly so, is that Greater dragons require more for tamers than regular dragons. There's higher skill needed to tame and control them. There is also the 5 slot control. Nerfing greater dragons to the point they are the same as regular dragons (which were nerfed into uselessness), while still maintaining the same requirements would be foul.

But as others have said.. this might be more about a deep seated hatred of tamers than anything else.

 

[o2bavr6]

2) Again and again, the facts have proven, there is no need to cap the damage of fire breath.

Can you please enlighten us to the actual facts then, instead of just saying there are facts.

 

[Yalp]

This discussion is in regards to PvP not PvM.

ummmm.. no this discussion is about capping GD's firebreath as the thread title says.

 

[o2bavr6]

You get no gold if the pet gets the killing blow. You get gold if your pet weakens the player and you get the final blow. You get justice either which way as long as you are a blue killing a red. Part of the reason you will never see a huge influx of tamers in PvP is because tamers benefit very little from actually making kills (outside of possibly raiding a spawn) because they pay out money when they die but they don't get any money when they actually make kills unless they are doing it themselves and there are much better templates to kill people with to gain gold.

Ummmm... I don't know one PvPer who does it for gold... well maybe other than some stalth archers who sit around for the kill shot all day.. but thats not PvP.

Other than that no one who PvP's does it for the gold.

 

[Yalp]

Can you please enlighten us to the actual facts then, instead of just saying there are facts.

I'm sure you don't need me to take your hand and lead you through the dozens of posts just in this thread detailing the MATH. Take 2 minutes to review ... I'll wait.

 

[Yalp]

Ummmm... I don't know one PvPer who does it for gold... well maybe other than some stalth archers who sit around for the kill shot all day.. but thats not PvP.

Other than that no one who PvP's does it for the gold.

If they don't do it for gold, then what is the point of ganking crafters who usually are not equipped to fight? Or rez killing? Or tracking players who have withdrawn from combat? Maybe some peeps will buy that line.. most of us aren't that naive.

 

[o2bavr6]

Gee I wonder how much a necro/mage/scribe can FS for after they have you cursed, evil omened and corpse skinned....I'm betting they can hit 80 (and probably one shot anyone without 70+ fire resist).

There is on HUGE fact that you left out with you scenario.

Curse takes 2 seconds to cast, evil omen takes about 1 second, corpse skin takes 2 seconds to cast, and flamestrike takes almost 2.5 seconds to cast.

In this time the person has time to eat an apple, chug a pot and cast greater heal or cleans by fire or remove curse.

Firebreath does instant damage from far away as well. A person has no time to do any of those. You go from full health to at least 60HP down in an instant.

This goes against the PvP one hit damage rules set by EA.

 

[Yalp]

For you GD haters.. there are here's a hint to make your troubles less.

GD's are notoriously weak against cold.. and slow as hell... and can be disco'd.

oh god.. there I've said it.. the secret is out.. I have blown the tamer advantage in pvp. If there was a membership card for tamer/gd I've now lost any chance of getting one. The secret society of tamers has me on a blacklist .. dang!

 

[o2bavr6]

If they don't do it for gold, then what is the point of ganking crafters who usually are not equipped to fight? Or rez killing? Or tracking players who have withdrawn from combat? Maybe some peeps will buy that line.. most of us aren't that naive.

This statement just shows you have no idea of what you are talking about.

There are no crafters in Fel, or hardly any ever.

And when we kill the rare crafter we see, we don't do it for the gold or loot, we do it just to kill them.

You see we are our own worst enemy, we killed everyone so they had to make Tram. Now there is no one to kill, so when we find someone we go after them even more.

I don't res kill, unless the person res killed me first. Second most Reds res kill to grief, not for the gold.

ANd if we track someone down after they have withdrawn from combat, is because they attacked us first, and we started to hand them their @44 in a hat so they ran away.

Now the way I handle a situation like that s simple, if you attack me I will attack you on site from then on. If you want me to not attack you, then dont attack me first.

I am one of those reds who in most cases doesn't arbitarily kill people, crafters included. And if I do kill a crafter I never ever loot him, and always res them after.

 

[Yalp]

This goes against the PvP one hit damage rules set by EA.

You mean EA has a policy that you can't damage an opponent with 1 hit? How many times do you have to hit an opponent before damage can register? Dang, those special moves better be looked into. Who do I send a bug report/complaint into? Is that a bug? Where's the facts? Is there math on that? How many hits do I take before I should have damage? Is that an illegal speed hack/script/exploit? Should we start 15 threads today about it?

 

[o2bavr6]

GD's are notoriously weak against cold.. and slow as hell... and can be disco'd.

We already know about the cold, but it still takes over 100 mind blasts to kill one.

And your right after all every PvPer has Disco on their template

 

[Yalp]

This statement just shows you have no idea of what you are talking about.

There are no crafters in Fel, or hardly any ever.

And when we kill the rare crafter we see, we don't do it for the gold or loot, we do it just to kill them.

You see we are our own worst enemy, we killed everyone so they had to make Tram. Now there is no one to kill, so when we find someone we go after them even more.

I don't res kill, unless the person res killed me first. Second most Reds res kill to grief, not for the gold.

ANd if we track someone down after they have withdrawn from combat, is because they attacked us first, and we started to hand them their @44 in a hat so they ran away.

Now the way I handle a situation like that s simple, if you attack me I will attack you on site from then on. If you want me to not attack you, then dont attack me first.

I am one of those reds who in most cases doesn't arbitarily kill people, crafters included. And if I do kill a crafter I never ever loot him, and always res them after.

then you sir, are one of a kind. What shard do you play? What is your character, there should be a monument to you! And are those blinders you are wearing a library or museum reward?

 

[o2bavr6]

You mean EA has a policy that you can't damage an opponent with 1 hit? How many times do you have to hit an opponent before damage can register? Dang, those special moves better be looked into. Who do I send a bug report/complaint into? Is that a bug? Where's the facts? Is there math on that? How many hits do I take before I should have damage? Is that an illegal speed hack/script/exploit? Should we start 15 threads today about it?

You may want to read this slowly.

EA imposed a limit on the amount fo damage that a player can deal out per hit.

Example..AI's were limited to 35HP of damage. A flamestrike will not do more than 35 damage to someone with 70 fire resist. This does not include when a person has been corpse skinned or anything like that.

But when they are corpse skinned and then flame struck it's not happening in onehit, it's happening in two hits, first the corspe skin then the flamestrike.

 

[Yalp]

We already know about the cold, but it still takes over 100 mind blasts to kill one.

And your right after all every PvPer has Disco on their template

tamer + greater has an advantage over SOME templates... but not ALL templates. The very definition of BALANCE. Not crazy.. logic.. does a body good.. get some.

 

[o2bavr6]

then you sir, are one of a kind. What shard do you play? What is your character, there should be a monument to you! And are those blinders you are wearing a library or museum reward?

I play Chessy and have for 10 years.

Most of my guild are Vets who have played near as long.

Most of my guild is rich as well so we don't need the gold, and if a guild mate happens to need gold we just give him/her a few mill to hold them over.

If you would like you can come to Chessy and PM me and I will show you what I am talking about.

Maybe my perspective is skewed, I don't know. But I do know that I play in fell 99% of the time. Do you?

 

[o2bavr6]

tamer + greater has an advantage over SOME templates... but not ALL templates. The very definition of BALANCE. Not crazy.. logic.. does a body good.. get some.

I think that this is where the confusion begins.

I am talking about damage that one class of PvPer can do that no otehr class of PvPer can do.

No PvPers use Disco or any of the skills, that you say, "balance" out the game against GD's.

 

[Yalp]

You may want to read this slowly.

EA imposed a limit on the amount fo damage that a player can deal out per hit.

Example..AI's were limited to 35HP of damage. A flamestrike will not do more than 35 damage to someone with 70 fire resist. This does not include when a person has been corpse skinned or anything like that.

But when they are corpse skinned and then flame struck it's not happening in onehit, it's happening in two hits, first the corspe skin then the flamestrike.

And dude.. unless you have some low or modification on your resists.. from ANY number of means... the gd is not going to do 60+ damage per hit.. that has been the opposing point from day one.... but maybe that is not your actual point? Maybe you want greaters eliminated from the option of pvp? Oh wait.. greaters aren't really out there pvp in any significant numbers though. So what could possibly be the actual argument?

and dude.. it's called sarcasm, wit, and/or humor.. try it.

 

[o2bavr6]

the gd is not going to do 60+ damage per hit.. that has been the opposing point from day one....

I guess I must be hallucinating when they do 60+ damage to me and every other person who gets hit by one.

They can leave the GD's as they are for PvM, I couldn't care less.

Please explain to me why no other class of PvPer, Archers included are not allowed to do that much damage in one hit, but GD's are.

Even Archers who do huge damage, are techically hitting with the main arrow and a concussion special, and then maybe the hit spell. Even though these hit at one time, they can be defended against by having parry or DCI. Also the Archer has way less mana than a GD, so if they fail to get the kill they are in a lot of trouble and usualy end up running away.

 

[Yalp]

I think that this is where the confusion begins.

I am talking about damage that one class of PvPer can do that no otehr class of PvPer can do.

No PvPers use Disco or any of the skills, that you say, "balance" out the game against GD's.

first, that is not a fact that tamer/gd class can do more damage than any other template. again.. posted all over these threads... how other classes can do just as much if not more damage faster.

second, that is a huge assumption on your part. i have seen pvp squads with bards in the mix. it's then about a choice that pvp'rs make on their template then, no? which has nothing to do with not being able to counter the gd.

third... there are VERY few if any tamer/gd out there pvp. Take a look! Again and again, tamers have posted that gd's are not a good pet to pvp with.

so dude.. again, it just seems to me, your cry to nerf gd's firebreath would impact the (lets take a blind guess) 1-2 tamers / gd combos who are pvping on your shard every (lets take another blind guess) 7-10 days. and who you might run into (lets keep the guess ball rolling) 1-2 a month.

Wow talk about over powered, unbalanced, out of control! So really dude, you can tell me... you really hate tamers and dragons, no? what happened to you dude? did they hog the melissa spawn on your shard? got all the crimmies and you didn't? won't tame for you? in the way and you can't grab life bars at peerless? block access in ambush sites? really, spill the beans.. it will do ya good.

seriously dude.. tell me what shard you are on.. i'll come check out the pvp action and honestly record the number of tamer + gd combos. I'd be happy to get the facts as they relate to your shard.

 

[Yalp]

Even Archers who do huge damage, are techically hitting with the main arrow and a concussion special, and then maybe the hit spell. Even though these hit at one time, they can be defended against by having parry or DCI. Also the Archer has way less mana than a GD, so if they fail to get the kill they are in a lot of trouble and usualy end up running away.

OK dude.. in all seriousness, now.

you have established that other templates are able to combine moves to create a one hit devastating punch. Much like gd's attack. That is cool. You didn't address why you can't withdraw from a greater. (there is a bug re: hitting targets from multi screens away.. but let's assume that bug has been corrected).

You can't stand toe to toe and take on a greater dragon.. nor should you be able to... It's an uber pet. It isn't all powerful end all be all. It has weakness which can be exploited. If it had no weaknesses, it if had no way to be defeated then yeah.. we should nerf it to hell and back. But that is not the case.

Again and again it has been shown you can defeat a greater with the right tactics, template, and abilities.

All that is left is for tamer/gd haters to yell about the amount of damage a gd does. Since there are other methods to do the same amount of damage, one has to wonder why some peeps continue to cry about greater's.

This is something I hope the devs think long and hard about before taking any action on the greaters.

 

[o2bavr6]

second, that is a huge assumption on your part. i have seen pvp squads with bards in the mix. it's then about a choice that pvp'rs make on their template then, no? which has nothing to do with not being able to counter the gd.

When someone brings a bard with a group of PvPers doesn't make the bard himself a PvPer. It just makes him a newbie PvPer hanging around a bunch of real PvPers

so dude.. again, it just seems to me, your cry to nerf gd's firebreath would impact the (lets take a blind guess) 1-2 tamers / gd combos who are pvping on your shard every (lets take another blind guess) 7-10 days. and who you might run into (lets keep the guess ball rolling) 1-2 a month.

At Yew gate there is usually one GD there every day. Albeit for maybe an hour at a time here and there.

seriously dude.. tell me what shard you are on.. i'll come check out the pvp action and honestly record the number of tamer + gd combos. I'd be happy to get the facts as they relate to your shard.

I already did. Chessy!!!!!!

And... Who is Mellisande? And do you think for one second that when my guild, the one who controls champ spawns on my server would have any issue controlling Mellisande? GD's or not?

But I will give you this towards your argument. A tamer with his GD against a good PvPer will probably lose to the PvPer. So maybe the GD isn't 100% over powered even with the huge damge they do in one hit.

But I will say that the tamers in my guild are PvPers first and have magery on thier template, so with magery and a GD they will destroy any other PvPer every time. Again realize that these guys are PvPers first and know how to PvP very very well. In fact they may beat you with just magery without even having the GD attack you.

 

[o2bavr6]

Again and again it has been shown you can defeat a greater with the right tactics, template, and abilities.

Actually you mean we can defeat the tamer, not the GD.

I killed a tamer a while back when he was afk and then proceeded to try and kill his GD. It Killed my twice before I got it to even 1/3 life and I was using a Dragon Slayer spell book.

After about 15 minutes of trying to kill it the tamer called it back.

 

[Lady_Mina]

i think one of the devs mentioned they weren't going to change greater dragons.

I like my GD for PvM...since it serves as a good tank.

Once tames they get weaker...in the wild they're even worse.

Just imagen trying to tame it while you have no chance of calming it and it's aggro-ed.

 

[o2bavr6]

i think one of the devs mentioned they weren't going to change greater dragons.

I like my GD for PvM...since it serves as a good tank.

Once tames they get weaker...in the wild they're even worse.

Just imagen trying to tame it while you have no chance of calming it and it's aggro-ed.

Ya there sure are nasty in the wild.

I may be wrong here but I would swear they do the similar amount of damage an Ancient Wyrm does.

IT's funny when we run through Destard to Raid Rikktor and you get almost redlined from a GD you ran by

 

[o2bavr6]

OK dude.. in all seriousness, now.

Yalp, let me ask you this:

Have you ever dueled a mage before?

 

[Eslake]

Please explain to me why no other class of PvPer, Archers included are not allowed to do that much damage in one hit, but GD's are.

For the same reason PvP is more interesting than PvM. Monster AI is a joke.

That archer you mention can suddenly decide to change tactics, run around a corner and hit hide, then swap out gear while stealthing to come at you from another direction with a different strategy.

The GD on the other hand, has only 1 method of fighting. It has different spells besides the claw and breath, but they all boil down to a direct forward attack.

The problem with that, and rightly so, is that Greater dragons require more for tamers than regular dragons. There's higher skill needed to tame and control them. There is also the 5 slot control. Nerfing greater dragons to the point they are the same as regular dragons (which were nerfed into uselessness), while still maintaining the same requirements would be foul.

But as others have said.. this might be more about a deep seated hatred of tamers than anything else.

But a GD with no fire breath would still be superior to a normal dragon that had it.

I suspect you are right about the general attitude being more of an issue than actual gameplay issues.
From prior to AoS to Now, most templates have had their damage output increased by at least 4x, while up until GDs, tamer pets had not even doubled.

That relative increase made everyone lazy when dealing with pets. They got used to killing a WW with 5 shots from a bow, or 3 flamestrikes with a slayer book. There was no reason to bother evading/pinning the pet to kill it because survivability on most templates has gone up too.
GDs make some actually have to TRY to survive which I guess is asking too much of those playing the "advanced" side of UO.


When necromancy was overpowered, every other character in Felucca was a necromancer by the end of the week.
When archery/bushido became the gimplate, every other character in Felucca was carrying a bow within days.
If GDs were so overpowered, every other character in Fel would be a tamer.

But most days tamers don't account for 1 in 20 you see here, and of those most are using Mare combos or Hiryus.

 

[o2bavr6]

If GDs were so overpowered, every other character in Fel would be a tamer.

But most days tamers don't account for 1 in 20 you see here, and of those most are using Mare combos or Hiryus.

My guild has over 300 members and we have at least 20 tamers, yet only one or two PvP with them because we don't consider using pets as true PvP.

In the same way that when we duel a mage doesnt use summons in that duel.

I'm sure that if we put our mind to it, our guild alone could get GD's nerfed by playing htem exclusively, but again, in our mind PvPing with pets is lame.

But thats just our opinion and like everyone opinions are like @$$%$*#S everyone has them

 

[o2bavr6]

OK dude.. in all seriousness, now.

FYI

I just tested it again with a guildmate and the GD did 92 damage to me with firebreath to a corpse proof suit with 89 fire and 90 phys.

and I was not cursed at the time.

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

No one knows that answer to the question?

I believe every serious pvper knows the answer to that ridiculous question.

Quite obviously none really care.
Anyone that thinks insurance gold should be any type of serious factor in Felucca is a plain fool.

Oops, I think I may have inadvertently spotted a fool as pertains to taming & pvp

Sorry

 

[Goldberg-Chessy]

Even Archers who do huge damage, are techically hitting with the main arrow and a concussion special, and then maybe the hit spell. Even though these hit at one time, they can be defended against by having parry or DCI. Also the Archer has way less mana than a GD, so if they fail to get the kill they are in a lot of trouble and usualy end up running away.

OK dude.. in all seriousness, now.

you have established that other templates are able to combine moves to create a one hit devastating punch. Much like gd's attack. That is cool. You didn't address why you can't withdraw from a greater. (there is a bug re: hitting targets from multi screens away.. but let's assume that bug has been corrected).

You can't stand toe to toe and take on a greater dragon.. nor should you be able to... It's an uber pet. It isn't all powerful end all be all. It has weakness which can be exploited. If it had no weaknesses, it if had no way to be defeated then yeah.. we should nerf it to hell and back. But that is not the case.

Again and again it has been shown you can defeat a greater with the right tactics, template, and abilities.

All that is left is for tamer/gd haters to yell about the amount of damage a gd does. Since there are other methods to do the same amount of damage, one has to wonder why some peeps continue to cry about greater's.

This is something I hope the devs think long and hard about before taking any action on the greaters.

Well said. If you have serious issues with Gd's 1 vs 1 then you are playing the wrong template.
I rarely die to anybody's Gd unless I am careless. I usually drop the tamer and damn near kill the Gd before he uses that most gimp tactic of all(the log-out)

Way to go EA. Making the log-out part of a players pvp arsenal was just plain genius.
Maybe in the future you can make simply logging back in on a tamer do 5000 points of instant damage to all targets within 10 tiles. Except the pet of course. We wouldnt want to create anything that would possibly help in killing it now would we? Woot!

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

FYI

I just tested it again with a guildmate and the GD did 92 damage to me with firebreath to a corpse proof suit with 89 fire and 90 phys.

and I was not cursed at the time.

But that is impossible!!

Except that it happens to me too.