Faction Update: Do we want this on Siege?

[Kage]

Also you can attack them first so you get the first punch in & break there ignore.

 

[Kage]

Interesting....I fear I may have to eat my words on this one

So I was correct?

 

[kelmo]

So I was correct?

Were you guessing?

 

[Kage]

Were you guessing?

TROLL!

 

[kelmo]

TROLL!

Where? *looks around*

 

[Vortex]

So I was correct?

I haven't tested yet, my faction guy is on an alacrity...

But you sounded pretty confident.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

IMO

Dragons should be dealt with immidiatly before the faction changes.

1# Allow people that are good at pvp to get better gear, its only right, if they are good, reward em for that, and it helps balance out quality vrs quanity with guilds

2# I dont think being able to tepeport to strongholds is a good idea at all, others had to take the time to get there and build a force, there shouldnt be an instant force in one second....

3# Points should be looked at, A person shouldnt loose half there points once they get to a certain level, it should subtracted the same way they were earned, which would allow maybe some sub par pvpers to euip some decent items

4# A particualr reward for attaining certain amount of points is to be able to negate your stat loss completly, reward good people with high point values a different level of reward, it would force people to get better, or shud--up


Fudd

 

[Sprago]

I think would be a good thing as long as they are not blessed
Factions definitly needs improvement but i think they should have addressed the dragons also

 

[Kat]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

No and why the hell should there be? Non-Faction PvPers don't risk stat loss. They don't risk an orange popping out or a bunch of faction guards dumping on them in rapid succession.

You want to PvP without the Risk, don't pancake about the rewards given those who take that added risk, when you CHOSE not to.

Deal with your own decision making process if you think it's unfair.

All of my characters except for one, are in factions. Even my crafter is in factions. These changes won't be unfair to me, but they certainly will be for other players. We shouldn't be getting bonuses over other players simply because we participate in a facet of the game that other players choose not to.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that other faction players aren't concerned about what is fair for the rest of the players of this shard. After all, if it doesn't directly effect us, why should we care? rolleyes:

 

[Kael]

Depending on the costs to these items in silver I am guessing that the Siege way of risk vs reward will be over. Die get looted..get more uber items rinse and repeat.

I guess a couple questions tho will come to mind.

1) How will this effect crafters if most people are running in factions with RBC, CC and totem or folded steel glasses

2) Will this bother those who came to Siege from production shards to get back to a more basic gamestyle of UO

 

[Draxous]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

No and why the hell should there be? Non-Faction PvPers don't risk stat loss. They don't risk an orange popping out or a bunch of faction guards dumping on them in rapid succession.

You want to PvP without the Risk, don't pancake about the rewards given those who take that added risk, when you CHOSE not to.

Deal with your own decision making process if you think it's unfair.

All of my characters except for one, are in factions. Even my crafter is in factions. These changes won't be unfair to me, but they certainly will be for other players. We shouldn't be getting bonuses over other players simply because we participate in a facet of the game that other players choose not to.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that other faction players aren't concerned about what is fair for the rest of the players of this shard. After all, if it doesn't directly effect us, why should we care? rolleyes:

Nice way to spin it. I guess you shouldn't be surprised that other faction players want to experience some actual rewards for the risks they take.

You assume its fair that a factioner has to sit in 20 minutes of stat when he was being attacked by 4 PKs and a factioner who happened to get the kill shot. But do those 4 PKs need to worry about sitting out 20 minutes if they die? No of course not. Now how is that fair.

You don't know what fair is and you're trying to pander it off like it would be unfair to people who DONT take the added risks factions bring.

Your entire argument is juvenile, ridiculous and trying to twist the truth.

So no. I really don't care. rolleyes:

 

[Kat]

Nice way to spin it. I guess you shouldn't be surprised that other faction players want to experience some actual rewards for the risks they take.

You assume its fair that a factioner has to sit in 20 minutes of stat when he was being attacked by 4 PKs and a factioner who happened to get the kill shot. But do those 4 PKs need to worry about sitting out 20 minutes if they die? No of course not. Now how is that fair.

You don't know what fair is and you're trying to pander it off like it would be unfair to people who DONT take the added risks factions bring.

Your entire argument is juvenile, ridiculous and trying to twist the truth.

So no. I really don't care. rolleyes:

As if I've never been ganked and had a faction player get the kill shot? Being red and the target of every blue I come across, I and many others have had that happen as well. It doesn't mean we are deserving of items that will throw everything out of whack. If stat bothers you that much, drop on out of factions. No one is forcing it on you. Your entire post is ridiculous.

 

[OldAsTheHills]

It seems to me that the whole reason to add all of these additions are to
cause players to join Factions. Non-Faction must give way to Factions so
that Factions would grow in numbers among those who do PvP.
There is going to have to be advantages to those Pvpers in Factions over
the Non-Faction Pvpers.
Hint: Go and join Factions if you are into PvPing.

My beef with the developers is that Factions is still a Capture the Flag type
game. I guess they <devs> could not think of anything better.

On a good note, none of this Faction improvements help me.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

Thats fine and good for pvp'ers. I see it gives them an incentive to join factions, but what about the pvm'ers?

I suppose that some pvm'ers will be in Factions by killing opponent monsters.
But, Non-Faction pvm'ers strategies must decline...in favor of Factions.
As I said, there is nothing in publication 56 for me!
I am not going to suggest a counter argument to the improvements for Factions.
That would be so... Trammie.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Elmer Fudd]

It doesn't mean we are deserving of items that will throw everything out of whack.

If your Good, Why Not?

But I see how you might have some concerns


Fudd

 

[Sprago]

I really feel that factions do deserve something we take the timeout to kill these faction creatures to gain silver, that takes time to do. When we die from faction monsters we take a stat 20 min, thats a risk im taking, i feel that deserves something when out pvp'ing we take the risk of losing our loot, our points, our Life force and we go 20 min into stat, i believe that deserves something factions should get something for taking those risks.
Its not like these items wont be availble for everyone all ya gota do is join factions. If you honestly dont like factions and wont join them then why should you get the same perks as someone that takes these risks why should we not get something. thats my thoughts on the subject

 

[Kat]

If your Good, Why Not?

But I see how you might have some concerns


Fudd

Fudd - The point is... unless you're in factions, these changes are unfair to the rest of the shards players. I'm sorry I have to spell it out for ya, but whatever. I guess some of you need all the help you can get to kill non-pvpers, crafters and new players.

 

[Kage]

Fudd - The point is... unless you're in factions, these changes are unfair to the rest of the shards players. I'm sorry I have to spell it out for ya, but whatever. I guess some of you need all the help you can get to kill non-pvpers, crafters and new players.

Ya people have been crying to ea for them to make faction worth being in.

Now they are trying to do that and everyone is saying its not fair to the people who are afraid to take the risk?

 

[Sprago]

non-factions are not taking any risks why should they complain. join the faction take the risks and obtain this items or dont and not obtain the items. If these items are so important they would just join faction to be even.

 

[Kael]

So I'm out doing a spawn or camping an IDOC or just merely farming items and gold...is this not taking a risk and should my time not be rewarded as well??

I'm all for meaningful rewards for factions but to me this is just throwing faction people a nice bone. Extra Mana regen on a orni..super enhanced CC...i'm disappointed.

 

[FrejaSP]

My opinion is, I'm not against the items as long they can be looted. It's fine if they are char bound as long they are not blessed.

If you respect the guy, you will let him keep his faction item or at least sell it back to him but if you disrespect him, you will loot it and trash.

 

[Draxous]

So I'm out doing a spawn or camping an IDOC or just merely farming items and gold...is this not taking a risk and should my time not be rewarded as well??

I'm all for meaningful rewards for factions but to me this is just throwing faction people a nice bone. Extra Mana regen on a orni..super enhanced CC...i'm disappointed.

You're out and doing all that... well so am I, but I'm risking statloss and you're not.

I think the point is that factions are an ADDED risk and deserve an added reward.

 

[CroakerTnT]

Here's my $0.02.

Bound to the character that purchases them - they won't be tradable or equippable by anyone else
- should be lootable, stealable, not blessed
- should be equipable by anyone in that faction

Durability has been added to many of them, requiring repairs as they're damaged
- good idea.

Can only be repaired with the new Powder of Perseverance, a faction-only item. (Powder of Fortification will not work on them)
- good idea, provided it requires a faction smith/tinker/tailor to do it

Available only to certain ranks; if you lose your faction rank you will no longer be able to equip an item of that rank.
- bad idea. this only makes the strong stronger, or encourages point farming. If this goes in, I'll be shifting to only playing my tamer.

1) Stronghold Rune: One-use item that will teleport you to your faction HQ (standard criminal flagging rules apply)
2) Shrine Gem: One-use item that can be used to teleport your ghost to the nearest shrine
- this might be ok, but the shrine gem should teleport you only to the chaos shrine. Most factioners are red, the chaos shrine is nowhere near a gate, so to reequip or get back, they'll need to gate. For extra fun, we could release a few kirins near the chaos shrine. lol.

 

[Willow30]

I see the armor not much different than the cursed arties people are using now. I do think they should be lootable though and possibly worn only by that faction.

Hopefully they will give us a chance to test it in a Siege environment.

 

[Vortex]

Ya people have been crying to ea for them to make faction worth being in.

Now they are trying to do that and everyone is saying its not fair to the people who are afraid to take the risk?

I'm not afraid to take the risk. I have a character in factions. I also have a tamer who I DO NOT PVP ON for the very reason that I don't believe in pvp with pets.

Sometimes I'm in the pvp mood, sometimes I'm in the pvm mood. Ya'll don't seem to realize that pvm is valuable to Siege and brings us many players, not to mention all the nice items.

I accept the risk involved in pvm on Siege. It's why I play here, farming is boring unless there is some chance that a pk will come along. However, pvm'ers are ALREADY at a disadvantage in a fight. This change will only serve to make that disadvantage stronger.

What I'm getting from most of you is - Siege should only be factions. PVM'ers should be nothing but meat and who cares if they are easier targets. This self-serving attitude ( not directed at you Kage, just some of the comments in general ) that many of you seem to have is going to drive Siege further into the toilet.

 

[Goron]

So I'm out doing a spawn or camping an IDOC or just merely farming items and gold...is this not taking a risk and should my time not be rewarded as well??

I'm all for meaningful rewards for factions but to me this is just throwing faction people a nice bone. Extra Mana regen on a orni..super enhanced CC...i'm disappointed.

when you die- do you lose 20 minutes of play time?

...
No... your time shouldn't be rewarded as well.

 

[Scuzzlebutt]

Fudd - The point is... unless you're in factions, these changes are unfair to the rest of the shards players. I'm sorry I have to spell it out for ya, but whatever. I guess some of you need all the help you can get to kill non-pvpers, crafters and new players.

I think its unfair that only pvmers are able to obtain peerless ingredients. For that matter I think it is completely unfair that an elf can ride a cu sidhe without wearing pads, or that they get 5 extra energy resist points. And what is with humans being able to carry more stones with the same str stats or having the jack of all trades attribute? I guess while we are at it, I would like to express my concern with being attacked on my red while in town. I just want to use my bank box without having to worry about the meanies killing me. Its almost as if I wanted any of these advantages I would be forced to make an adjustment to my play style or in game decisions. [/sarcasm]

After all, its not like anybody has a blessed purple robe with an extra 3% to all resists that they did not earn for themselves. Cause wouldn't that be an unfair advantage?

 

[Kat]

I think its unfair that only pvmers are able to obtain peerless ingredients. For that matter I think it is completely unfair that an elf can ride a cu sidhe without wearing pads, or that they get 5 extra energy resist points. And what is with humans being able to carry more stones with the same str stats or having the jack of all trades attribute? I guess while we are at it, I would like to express my concern with being attacked on my red while in town. I just want to use my bank box without having to worry about the meanies killing me. Its almost as if I wanted any of these advantages I would be forced to make an adjustment to my play style or in game decisions. [/sarcasm]

After all, its not like anybody has a blessed purple robe with an extra 3% to all resists that they did not earn for themselves. Cause wouldn't that be an unfair advantage?

Beezle - Thanks for responding respectfully. Much appreciated!

I think its unfair that only pvmers are able to obtain peerless ingredients.

Not true. You can kill that PvMer for those ingredients, though... If you were to argue that Peerless should not be instanced, I'd agree with you there. However, you can also purchase and use those ingredients no matter your playstyle. You could also do a peerless with a PvP character with your guild and obtain those ingredients.

For that matter I think it is completely unfair that an elf can ride a cu sidhe without wearing pads, or that they get 5 extra energy resist points.

The JOAT gives even better benefits IMO and I don't see any real imbalance issues with being either elf or human. Further, the pads are tradable to other players and are not bound to any single character.

After all, its not like anybody has a blessed purple robe with an extra 3% to all resists that they did not earn for themselves. Cause wouldn't that be an unfair advantage?[/

You do have a point there and I agree that special items like that should not be blessed. I have posted my opinion on such items before. Unfortunately, I was not playing here when that was introduced, or I'd have spoken out about it then too... Not that it wouldn't have been a waste of time. Much like I am wasting my time with this.

 

[Scuzzlebutt]

All valid points I will admit, however I feel it all boils down to choice. If you want to use these new items you have the option to choose to join a faction, just as I have the choice to go do peerless with my guild (even though I don't particularly like to pvm.) They may not particularly like the pvp aspect of factions, but it is still their choice to participate or not. No one is saying they can't use these items, it will just cause them to choose the risk that comes with the reward.

 

[Kael]

when you die- do you lose 20 minutes of play time?

...
No... your time shouldn't be rewarded as well.

Thats a crazy amount of "reward" man

I guess its going to depend on the cost to actually equip these items. If low enough then people can spawn silver and it shall be like a "blessed artie" with everyone running the exact same armor. Damn..thats only a tunic, helm and jewel plus my cc thats even more gimped out as the regular prodo shard one..oh and my single seige blessed item. Maybe we should readd those ember legs too as blessable.

People chose factions as a way to fight regardless of location. Thats your reward not some unbalanced super enhanced artifacts.

 

[Lord_Puffy]

If, as a whole, we do want this, then fine, but if we have a huge problem with something like this coming to Siege, we should probably speak up about it before it gets here. If past history is any indication, our dev team typically doesn't remove content once it goes live.


Just for reference, these are the proposed changes/additions...

I say put them all in screw it, cant be any worse than greater dragons.

 

[Kat]

People chose factions as a way to fight regardless of location. Thats your reward not some unbalanced super enhanced artifacts.

Kael - Agreed!

I think this is the wrong way to go with factions. I'd much rather see an incentive to fight for the towns and I do not believe any incentive should be item based. The changes do nothing to inspire faction players to fight for control of towns or fight anywhere outside of Luna. On Siege, its mostly about putting players into stat-loss and for some, kill points.

 

[Tjalle]

Do Siege really need more artifact stuff?

 

[Mogluk]

I a actually for any and all additions to siege.....

 

[Vortex]

People chose factions as a way to fight regardless of location. Thats your reward not some unbalanced super enhanced artifacts.

Kael - Agreed!

I think this is the wrong way to go with factions. I'd much rather see an incentive to fight for the towns and I do not believe any incentive should be item based. The changes do nothing to inspire faction players to fight for control of towns or fight anywhere outside of Luna. On Siege, its mostly about putting players into stat-loss and for some, kill points.

AMEN, thanks for coming, good night!

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Fudd - I'm sorry I have to spell it out for ya, but whatever. I guess some of you need all the help you can

Let me Spell out what yer saying---(BooHoo)

Why so angry all the time---gun

What ever could I have said to offend you nowsad2

 

[Kat]

Fudd - Do you have the capacity to make an intelligent response or are you just out trolling as usual?

 

[Kage]

Fudd - Do you have the capacity to make an intelligent response or are you just out trolling as usual?

Just WOW! Now that is what I like to call the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

Fudd - Do you have the capacity to make an intelligent response or are you just out trolling as usual?

I try and offer my opinion to you, but the only thing that you understand is anger and hate!


As Kelmo Sais, If we didnt Troll what would we talk about right??

But I guess this one will be removed because its not one of you doing the trolling huh??/



lmao

 

[Spree]

Jeremy responded about a siege test.

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=105500

 

[kelmo]

Trolls feed upon trolls. *shrugs* If you folks keep it up then expect the worst.

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

Trolls feed upon trolls. *shrugs* If you folks keep it up then expect the worst.

Forgive me Kelmo, but screw you.

I identified the ROT problems pre-publish. I crunched the numbers for every skill gain category and posted them on U Hall.

I created an entirely new ROT system which was capable of fixing the problem or at least illustrating what needed to be done to fix the system.

What did they do? They ignored it, published anyway, and said they would look at it down the road.

Are they looking at it? Have they asked for feedback? Did they at least fix the obvious slowdown that I pointed out repeatedly?

Now this with Factions.

Look, I don't know if it a good idea or a bad idea. It isn't worth my time to do another analysis and get ignored again even in the face of obvious flaws.

So honestly, how is it going to get worse?

 

[kelmo]

*blinks* What? I was speaking to the trolls bashing each other in this thread. Lighten up.

 

[Elmer Fudd]

If your Good, Why Not?

But I see how you might have some concerns


Fudd

Fudd - The point is... unless you're in factions, these changes are unfair to the rest of the shards players. I'm sorry I have to spell it out for ya, but whatever. I guess some of you need all the help you can get to kill non-pvpers, crafters and new players.

So this wasnt a good enough response for ya? if your good at PvP you should be rewarded for it, and if your not...well then your not, so why all the other comments Kat?

 

[MoonglowMerchant]

*blinks* What? I was speaking to the trolls bashing each other in this thread. Lighten up.

My fault then.

I had clicked the link to the other thread and was busy turning red at the prospect of more empty promises.

Sorry.

 

[Draxous]

I accept the risk involved in pvm on Siege. It's why I play here, farming is boring unless there is some chance that a pk will come along. However, pvm'ers are ALREADY at a disadvantage in a fight. This change will only serve to make that disadvantage stronger.

What I'm getting from most of you is - Siege should only be factions. PVM'ers should be nothing but meat and who cares if they are easier targets. This self-serving attitude ( not directed at you Kage, just some of the comments in general ) that many of you seem to have is going to drive Siege further into the toilet.

Can a PvPer take down PvM stuff as easily? No. There is a disadvantage to specializing your character for any one thing. Yet you can't accept that? So crafters are cannon fodder... why aren't we complaining about that?

You tell me that PvMers should be nothing but meat shields... like these items will make or break the fight... please.

People chose factions as a way to fight regardless of location. Thats your reward not some unbalanced super enhanced artifacts.

Kael - Agreed!

I think this is the wrong way to go with factions. I'd much rather see an incentive to fight for the towns and I do not believe any incentive should be item based. The changes do nothing to inspire faction players to fight for control of towns or fight anywhere outside of Luna. On Siege, its mostly about putting players into stat-loss and for some, kill points.

AMEN, thanks for coming, good night!

Wrong. Because you took it too far.

That is not why people join factions. People join factions because it is added risk. It is the bar in which you judge the PvPers and their performance. If a faction holds the towns whether or not the other factions want them to... that says something. If you go into a fight... there is no resurrecting and going back at it 2 minutes later... its 20. Walking away with a faction loss... MEANS more, but what do you get for a faction win? The same crap you get for any ole win... and that's a problem. That is not Risk versus Reward.

If what you said was true, then I'd be able to fight ANY one ANY where. You act like if you're a PK you can't already kill people damn near everywhere. Hell, Wyrms even killing people in town... and you pose that factions is somehow radically different?

People are in factions because that is where we are. You can either be a PK NOT in factions and exploit the lesser risk to your deaths OR you can be a PK and take on the added risk of statloss. There's a difference and it's not the BS you're trying to pawn it off as in these posts.

So No... I can't agree with you at all.

I DO agree with one point you made was that this publish falls short on the fact that factions need more of an incentive to guard/raid sigils... but, that's a seperate issue.

 

[Kat]

If your Good, Why Not?

But I see how you might have some concerns


Fudd

Fudd - The point is... unless you're in factions, these changes are unfair to the rest of the shards players. I'm sorry I have to spell it out for ya, but whatever. I guess some of you need all the help you can get to kill non-pvpers, crafters and new players.

So this wasnt a good enough response for ya? if your good at PvP you should be rewarded for it, and if your not...well then your not, so why all the other comments Kat?

I can respond to other posts as I see fit. Regardless of the high opinion you seem to have of yourself, your word is not the final word on any given subject.

BE GONE TROLL!

 

[Ole Cheapy]

I vote NO as they are.

The benefits are greater the more points you have.
Sucky pvpers like myself have no points. Good pvpers have lots of points.
This just makes the richer richer and the poor poorer... except in pvp terms.


MAYBE if they are lootable and FREELY USABLE (no matter what rank) as devin suggested I would be for them.
Then the 'rich' could still buy and give to the 'poor'.

I totally agree with your opinion, but at the same time I also understand the reasoning behind making them bound to the player and having a certain tier of rank to use them.

By doing this it gives factions as a whole more activity and participation. People will actually care about their rank and not just some stupid armor ignore. Although I do understand the point for those who oppose this idea, but I will have to say that I am in favor of it for now. Like I said, for now, that could change in the near future though.