Faction Update: Do we want this on Siege?

[Kat]

If, as a whole, we do want this, then fine, but if we have a huge problem with something like this coming to Siege, we should probably speak up about it before it gets here. If past history is any indication, our dev team typically doesn't remove content once it goes live.


Just for reference, these are the proposed changes/additions...

"You've hinted at more faction-related stuff coming up - is this in Publish 56?"
Yes! The next round of content adds completely new rewards and incentives for Factions. Amongst them are many new items, a few of which we can tease about below.

Faction Equippables: A set of enhanced Artifacts. They will be available for purchase via a collection box in your Faction Stronghold (later on, silver collected this way will benefit your faction, but that will be in a future publish.) These items will have several restrictions:

Bound to the character that purchases them - they won't be tradable or equippable by anyone else
Durability has been added to many of them, requiring repairs as they're damaged
Can only be repaired with the new Powder of Perseverance, a faction-only item. (Powder of Fortification will not work on them)
Available only to certain ranks; if you lose your faction rank you will no longer be able to equip an item of that rank.
We'll release the full table of items in the notes when the publish goes to Test Center, but here are a few examples so you can see what we mean by "enhanced":
Rank 1: Rune Beetle Carapace with additional +3 to all resists
Rank 4: Crimson Cincture with additional +5 Dexterity
Rank 7: Spirit of the Totem with enhanced resists (instead of the linked resists, this version has Phys 20% and 10% in each of the others)
Rank 9: Folded Steel Reading Glasses with additional +10 DCI
Rank 10: Ornament of the Magician with additional Mana Regen 3
There are a total of nineteen new artifacts spread out across the various tiers.

Faction Consumables: In addition to the new artifacts, a number of new consumables will be available for purchase with silver. Anyone in the faction will be able to use the items (they are freely tradable) but there will be a cooldown on many of the items, based on rank. Examples of the consumables include:
Stronghold Rune: One-use item that will teleport you to your faction HQ (standard criminal flagging rules apply)
Shrine Gem: One-use item that can be used to teleport your ghost to the nearest shrine
Powder of Perseverance: A variant of Powder of Fortification that can be used on the new faction items.
Enhanced bandages that also remove curses
Two new types of potions
There will also be a new item for sale that allows Human players to equip Elven items.

Start stocking up your silver, and when this goes to Test Center we look forward to your feedback and bug reports!

 

[Willow30]

I am not against the items, but I do think they should be lootable and not bound to the character.

 

[Speedy Orkit]

Agreed with above posted.

 

[Goron]

I vote NO as they are.

The benefits are greater the more points you have.
Sucky pvpers like myself have no points. Good pvpers have lots of points.
This just makes the richer richer and the poor poorer... except in pvp terms.


MAYBE if they are lootable and FREELY USABLE (no matter what rank) as devin suggested I would be for them.
Then the 'rich' could still buy and give to the 'poor'.

 

[GoodGuy]

if they are lootable and usable by anyone in factions not messed with by faction rank then i am down.

but if they are blessed and only usable by whatever you rank is then NO i dont want this bull**** going in game.

 

[Goodah]

All that stuff isn't going to matter when you are getting "all killed" by the bagillion greater dragons running around.

These are only two that we know as of yet, but do these and similar undisclosed consumables belong on Siege?
1) Stronghold Rune: One-use item that will teleport you to your faction HQ (standard criminal flagging rules apply)
2) Shrine Gem: One-use item that can be used to teleport your ghost to the nearest shrine

 

[King Edward]

Either make um crumble like chaos boots if removed so they lose um on death if the player that won wants to destory um (or they stay on the body if the winner doesnt try and remove it) OR,
Place a timer on um like getting keys too a peerless (2 hours max).
Claimable once a day.

 

[Kat]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

It will make players stop hiding in the guardzone behind their blue color if they want to keep up. Sounds like a good thing to me...la

 

[Patty Pickaxe]

Is this stuff on TC yet? Is anyone planning on trying it on TC? I know I am not since I have no interest in factions, but maybe it would be a good idea if some serious faction people tried it out on TC.

 

[Speedy Orkit]

I play TC about 80% of the time. I'd be happy to

 

[AEowynSP]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

Indeed. My 2 cents I don't want this on siege.
Yet another imbalance in the system as I see it.

 

[Hera - Siege]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

I think it'd be a good thing to get more people into factions. The Factioneers are always whining not enough people are in factions, this would definitely help IMO.

There are some nice items, heck even the rank 1 RBC w/ +3 in all resists is fairly solid.

It's unbalancing, but not unbalancing in a way that no-one else can step up and balance it out if they so desire. If you don't want to be in factions, that's fine, but you can't whine about the people who are in factions and risk stat-loss/etc who get the cool toys.

I do agree, there should be a timer on the items, like a 1/day or something along those lines so you just can't stock up on silver and re-equip every time you die.

I'd also like to see the rank stuff dropped on Siege. We just don't have the numbers to really do this right. Couple this with a max of 1 or 2 faction arties equippable at a time and I think we're doing ok.

Edit: And lootable/non-blessed on Siege. Don't care one way or another about if <char> can only use it, but it definitely should be lootable. I like the idea about it destroying on pickup, that's a nice way to be able to leave it if you want to be a nice guy or just destroy it if you want to be that way too.

 

[-Whiskey-]

that teleport garbage needs to be given to the prodo only. i do like the items but is this what siege really needs is more items?

 

[HaHa]

It will make players stop hiding in the guardzone behind their blue color if they want to keep up. Sounds like a good thing to me...la

Agreed ... la


... and agreed about the teleport **** not being on siege.

 

[Kat]

Hera and Rico make some valid points, but I'd much rather have incentives to fight for towns vs item incentives. Plus, I really think we have to carefully consider the balance of PvP across the board. The Greater Dragon issue can be resolved if the dev team will just get to it, but we don't need more imbalances.

 

[Vortex]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

Yes, I see this as a major problem. The same way MI is a problem.

They should take factions off Siege and everyone should war.

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I don't like the transport to the faction stronghold item, but the transport to a shrine seems fine to me. The player will jump into stat/skill loss, so it's not like they can rez and jump back into the fight...la

 

[HaHa]

Hera and Rico make some valid points, but I'd much rather have incentives to fight for towns vs item incentives. Plus, I really think we have to carefully consider the balance of PvP across the board. The Greater Dragon issue can be resolved if the dev team will just get to it, but we don't need more imbalances.

Like what? Maybe more towns you own the more valuable of an item you can have? Or maybe a combination of two. More towns figured in with more points you have = better items to wear ? Not a bad idea with that either.

 

[Kat]

Yes, I see this as a major problem. The same way MI is a problem.

They should take factions off Siege and everyone should war.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I love factions. I just don't want to see more balance issues introduced.

We've had wars with other guilds and that is great fun, but I prefer a reason to fight and I like fighting well away from the GZ's. Base defense is the most fun there is, even when there has been overwhelming odds against us. Best fun ever!!

 

[Hawkind]

Well I don't mind giving faction rank some actual meaning and reward but I think there are a few things that need to be fixed before they add such a system in place. Just off the top of my head

-Farming points
-Hero/Evil System where killing someone in your own faction results in point loss

I'd like that sort of thing addressed before rank is given meaning.

This non-sense about the rich getting richer..I'm sorry thats bs from crappy players that just want the items handed to them by better players than themselves. You want something good? Work for it.

Instead of the items being player bound I would rather have them faction bound so anyone in factions with the appropriate rank can use them once they are looted. Keep in mind they should still be able to be hero/evil dyed.

 

[Kat]

Like what? Maybe more towns you own the more valuable of an item you can have? Or maybe a combination of two. More towns figured in with more points you have = better items to wear ? Not a bad idea with that either.

Your ideas aren't bad! I made some suggestions in a UHell thread. I'll see if I can find it, but the incentives were not item based.

Edit: I found the suggestions I made in the UHall thread.

What we NEED is a NON item based reason for people to want to fight for the towns!

Suggestions:

-Reduced stat-loss if your guild is in control of the towns [based on the number of towns your faction controls]
-Control of all town guards, including regular non-faction guards [again, based on the number of towns your faction controls]
-The ability to have your own faction guards kill or ignore opposing faction players [currently broken]
-Temporary stat buffs that can be purchased with silver or life force points
-The ability to use faction guards around your own base if your faction controls the towns [besides TB & COM]

More suggestions welcome...

 

[TheScoundrelRico]

I'd like to see faction crafter involved in these new items. It would be cool if the faction gear had to be made by a player to be distributed, maybe even hold a particular rank to be able to craft them as well as some type of faction quest to gain the recipes. Tinkers, Smiths and Tailors would be needed to make the items, but also they would have to create the items with all the unblessable components in a faction owned town...la

 

[Mogluk]

I say lets take it all!!!!!!

lets go down in a ball of fury!!!!

 

[Kage]

I like a lot of the idea but lets be real. It's EA they have made the coding will not waste there time to correct anything unless it is with the following publish.

I see things pretty much going the way they was listed accept Items on Siege and Mugen will not be blessed.

 

[Kat]

Well they certainly wouldn't make any changes before publish 56 goes live, but they could opt to leave it out until we and they can come up with another alternative for Siege. Once the publish goes live, I can't imagine they'd remove it. I don't know if they even have the ability to. If so, I imagine it would be a very tedious task.

 

[-Whiskey-]

im sure we can get rid of atleast the teleport recall runes

 

[Kat]

Whiskey - Agreed!

 

[Petra Fyde]

I'm not, and barring a minor aberration on Mo's part, never have been in factions, however I'd say a lot depends on how they plan to implement these things. Bound to a character does not necessarily mean blessed, and on Siege mustn't mean that.
The teleport rune is possibly the easiest to disallow, since recall is disallowed anyway, with luck it will be coded as a recall so it just won't work, np.

Basically I'd say you can't make an informed judgement until you have the relevant information.

 

[Kat]

http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?p=902671#post902671

I have requested a Siege Test Shard for publish 56 so we can test the new faction changes. Your support would be appreciated!

 

[Førsaken]

Hmmm imo, the items will make the already Artied out PvPers (me included) stronger.

Things to think about to make people WANT to join Factions and gain these items:

1) Stop point farming with noob chars, set it to where the char must be certain age and/skill points.

2) Maybe shorten the Stat Loss timer to 10 mins. Is that something that would give incentive to the people who do not wish to have 20 min Stat Loss game play in their already tight schedule?

3) Make owning towns actually worth a damn! Aka maybe having towns unlock such arties? (This will give fights)

4) Fix the point system all together. Each new day, you should be able to kill someone and get point, unless they're -6. (With this said, there has to be a better way to stop people from throwing alts in another faction simply to farm points/take away for that matter.)

5) Make it to where Tamer's pets can no longer be in the main part of faction base. I can see it now, who has the more Greater Dragons inside their Stronghold...oh gee golly. Their role should be front line defense. (my 2 cents)

 

[Tiberius]

I think they should be lootable and usable by any factioner in much the same way as hero/evil dyed items are now. I also think you should be able to use your siege bless on them if you choose to do so and ranking should be left out of it on siege. Everyone who is willing to join facions regardless of thier skill level in pvp should be able to take advantage of this. This would be fair and level the playing field IMO. Far as non-faction pvpers go, this would be considered incentive. Yes I am biased on that point since my chars have been factioned for almost as long as the system has been in place; I have never been a fan of the random blue pvp style and have always thought you should either be red or factioned. I do hate to see non factioned reds screwed in the deal though.

 

[Kage]

Hmmm imo, the items will make the already Artied out PvPers (me included) stronger.

Things to think about to make people WANT to join Factions and gain these items:

1) Stop point farming with noob chars, set it to where the char must be certain age and/skill points.

2) Maybe shorten the Stat Loss timer to 10 mins. Is that something that would give incentive to the people who do not wish to have 20 min Stat Loss game play in their already tight schedule?

3) Make owning towns actually worth a damn! Aka maybe having towns unlock such arties? (This will give fights)

4) Fix the point system all together. Each new day, you should be able to kill someone and get point, unless they're -6. (With this said, there has to be a better way to stop people from throwing alts in another faction simply to farm points/take away for that matter.)

5) Make it to where Tamer's pets can no longer be in the main part of faction base. I can see it now, who has the more Greater Dragons inside their Stronghold...oh gee golly. Their role should be front line defense. (my 2 cents)

I like all of those but damn I really like #5.

 

[Rykus]

I see this as nothing but pure laziness on the part of the developers/management. Instead of implementing meaningful incentives to be in a factions, they just do what they've done for so long, re-hash/re-hue/re-release... *yawns*

There are some good suggestions in this thread already, but none of it will ever happen. I honestly don't believe this current dev team has the skill and creativity to produce anything beyond cheap gimmicks. This will only serve to give even more advantages to those who spend 60 hours a week in game, creating an even wider gap between certain segments of the population, and everyone else.

$.02

 

[Gwendar-SP]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

Agree - my impression is that it will be unbalancing, almost like when faction could get their armor and weapon blessed for 3 weeks.

I see this as nothing but pure laziness on the part of the developers/management. Instead of implementing meaningful incentives to be in a factions, they just do what they've done for so long, re-hash/re-hue/re-release... *yawns*

More item inflation *sigh*

 

[Draxous]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

No and why the hell should there be? Non-Faction PvPers don't risk stat loss. They don't risk an orange popping out or a bunch of faction guards dumping on them in rapid succession.

You want to PvP without the Risk, don't pancake about the rewards given those who take that added risk, when you CHOSE not to.

Deal with your own decision making process if you think it's unfair.

 

[Czarina]

has anyone ever mentioned completly doing away with factions and bringing back the old hero evil system? it was basically same thing but only 2 sides plus had some nice benifits. not too mention that alot of it is probaly still in siege coding. so should be too much work.

 

[Draxous]

I vote NO as they are.

The benefits are greater the more points you have.
Sucky pvpers like myself have no points. Good pvpers have lots of points.
This just makes the richer richer and the poor poorer... except in pvp terms.


MAYBE if they are lootable and FREELY USABLE (no matter what rank) as devin suggested I would be for them.
Then the 'rich' could still buy and give to the 'poor'.

So people are "rich" because they don't suck at PvP?

...

There needs to be rewards for being better than your opponent. Not imbalancing ones... but rewards none-the-less.

I don't think these should be bound to the character, but I do think they need to reward those who are contenders.

 

[OldAsTheHills]

No one see's any issues as far as balance goes? Faction PvPer's vs. Non-Faction PvPer's? That's my main concern.

Edit: Faction fighters don't just fight other faction players...

It seems to me that the whole reason to add all of these additions are to
cause players to join Factions. Non-Faction must give way to Factions so
that Factions would grow in numbers among those who do PvP.
There is going to have to be advantages to those Pvpers in Factions over
the Non-Faction Pvpers.
Hint: Go and join Factions if you are into PvPing.

My beef with the developers is that Factions is still a Capture the Flag type
game. I guess they <devs> could not think of anything better.

On a good note, none of this Faction improvements help me.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

 

[Vortex]

Like what? Maybe more towns you own the more valuable of an item you can have? Or maybe a combination of two. More towns figured in with more points you have = better items to wear ? Not a bad idea with that either.

I like that better than the current plan. However, to me, it still doesn't solve the problem of faction people fighting non-factioners (especially pvm'ers). Isn't it enough advantage that you can use MI, plus the fact that pvm'ers are wearing lrc or luck and therefore have lame resists?

Don't get me wrong, I like the risk of being attacked while I pvm. Heck, if I didn't, I would be on a trammel shard. All I'm asking for is a reasonable chance for pvm'ers to defend themselves. MI has got to go.

 

[Vortex]

It seems to me that the whole reason to add all of these additions are to
cause players to join Factions. Non-Faction must give way to Factions so
that Factions would grow in numbers among those who do PvP.
There is going to have to be advantages to those Pvpers in Factions over
the Non-Faction Pvpers.
Hint: Go and join Factions if you are into PvPing.

My beef with the developers is that Factions is still a Capture the Flag type
game. I guess they <devs> could not think of anything better.

On a good note, none of this Faction improvements help me.

*stares*
Yahaxithonix

Thats fine and good for pvp'ers. I see it gives them an incentive to join factions, but what about the pvm'ers?

 

[kelmo]

There is more to pub 56 than faction changes. *nods*

 

[Vortex]

No and why the hell should there be? Non-Faction PvPers don't risk stat loss. They don't risk an orange popping out or a bunch of faction guards dumping on them in rapid succession.

You want to PvP without the Risk, don't pancake about the rewards given those who take that added risk, when you CHOSE not to.

Deal with your own decision making process if you think it's unfair.

Again, you are making the assumption that all people on Siege pvp. They don't. Kat is saying what about the non-factioners (including the pvm ones).

 

[kelmo]

Again, you are making the assumption that all people on Siege pvp. They don't. Kat is saying what about the non-factioners (including the pvm ones).

My recent poll showed that 2 to 1 pefered being unfettered with that PvP only nonsense. *nods*

 

[Kage]

I like that better than the current plan. However, to me, it still doesn't solve the problem of faction people fighting non-factioners (especially pvm'ers). Isn't it enough advantage that you can use MI, plus the fact that pvm'ers are wearing lrc or luck and therefore have lame resists?

Don't get me wrong, I like the risk of being attacked while I pvm. Heck, if I didn't, I would be on a trammel shard. All I'm asking for is a reasonable chance for pvm'ers to defend themselves. MI has got to go.

What are you trying to say about MI? I can assure you most people if they are indeed raiding your pvm event they are not using MI.

One reason is because all you have to do is all kill them and that breaks there monster ignore. and the spawn/monsters will then attack them.

If you are trying to say a tamer can not attack a player with MI on then that is not true. MI only works against NPC monsters and will not work against player controlled creatures/monsters.

 

[Vortex]

What are you trying to say about MI? I can assure you most people if they are indeed raiding your pvm event they are not using MI.

One reason is because all you have to do is all kill them and that breaks there monster ignore. and the spawn/monsters will then attack them.

If you are trying to say a tamer can not attack a player with MI on then that is not true. MI only works against NPC monsters and will not work against player controlled creatures/monsters.

No, I'm aware that it only works against npc monsters. I was not aware that sending a pet on someone would break their MI. I have never seen that to be true. All I know is that many times when spawns that I have been at have been raided, the raiders are running MI and not having to worry about the spawn while the spawners have to worry about the spawn, their attackers, and their lack of decent resist.

I have a faction character, so I'll test if MI breaks when someone attacks me with a pet. Sorry to doubt you on this one, but having been raided many, many times with people running MI, I'm gonna have to see that to believe it.

*edit* Maybe I'm misunderstanding? I know that the pet will attack you, but are you saying that it will break the MI and monsters will attack you?

 

[Kage]

Not sure if it matters but I would make sure the characters are not in the same guild. Also make sure the char with MI on hits back if you miss the pet then it may not break but 99% of the time you hit the pet.

 

[Vortex]

Not sure if it matters but I would make sure the characters are not in the same guild. Also make sure the char with MI on hits back if you miss the pet then it may not break but 99% of the time you hit the pet.

Ok, so they gotta attack the pet?

 

[Kage]

Ok, so they gotta attack the pet?

Yes say you have MI on with a Mage, Fencer, archer etc. Ok they are raiding you. you say all guard me they attack you.. your pet goes after them if they swing or shoot it then there MI will be broken.

 

[Vortex]

Yes say you have MI on with a Mage, Fencer, archer etc. Ok they are raiding you. you say all guard me they attack you.. your pet goes after them if they swing or shoot it then there MI will be broken.

Interesting....I fear I may have to eat my words on this one