Delete trammel that's an easy compromise.
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Everybody is blue nowadays...revamp REDS-PKERS? My ideas...
- Thread starter Kiss Of Death
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Merlin
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You are completely out of it.
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Get a Slither, Tangle, Orny, CC, one of the new artifacts, or one of the 10+ other Tram only items that are worth 30+ mil (which are mostly only valuable due to the pvp community), sell them and then buy your 120 power scrolls.
Back on topic:
Thoughts on incorporating town buffs into VvV ? I'd vote for this but not have the buffs be tied to actual control of the cities. I'd rather them be obtainable by turning in silver/VvV points and can be redeemed for a 24-hour buff period or something like that.
Merlin
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If they were to incorporate buffs for reds (which I don't necessarily agree with)... incorporate it with the anti-virtue dungeons in some shape or form. Each dungeon would represent a certain buff (therefore, it wouldn't be tied to governor elections, etc.) and could create some new interesting spots to PvP in.
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The anti-virtue dungeons aren't new spots to PvP in though...towns are.
I'm not saying have an election system, I'm saying fight for the buffs in some form.
One (over the top) idea: In the spirit of champ spawns (and maybe incorporate actual Virtue/Vice teams) have two dark fathers-like bosses (which generate spawn) in a VvV battle, one vice and one virtue, control of city is decided by which team can kill the others' boss. Spawn and loot are generated, there's a focus and strategy to the PvP, reds have access to town buffs, people stop feeling forced to play blues, the end. Feel free to think of other alternatives.
Edit: lets be real too, only 2 (maybe 3 of the buffs are used/are useful). If you tie certain buffs to certain dungeons or towns, you're just creating a new Despise (something that gets chained over and over and over to infinity).
Delete where the vast majority play? Hah.
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While that's true, but it's not the best solution. Doesn't really reflect the community, would like to see it as something that encourages and it seems like it could fit in the VvV framework as is given the town focus.
Okay, Add town buffs to the silver trader, trade points for the town buff of your choice.
I figured if we were going to post absurdities I might as well post the one I'd like to see.
Lets try not to Create a crazy new Complex System to the game just to give reds town buffs. make it simple, Make it easy.
Adding more Fel Content to keep players pvping, The Content Should be Pvp Related/Decorative and player + Shard bound. Want an armored tiger mount, you gotta participate in VvV. Add Horse armor that works like swampy armor for your VvV Mount, Toss in some house deco in deed form that's account bound. Small Additions make the world go round.
Host Some VvV Events where when a city comes under siege one EM takes one side, the other EM takes the other and they both turn into monsters/spawn monsters for the fight. yeah yeah yeah, griefing, pking, blah blah blah. That's the point. chaos and anarchy. (And how cool would that be, a lot cooler than 200 players running around with greater dragons trying to kill one monster, that's for sure) Then make it a once a month event prime time weekend on Atlantic.
Adding more Fel Content to keep players pvping, The Content Should be Pvp Related/Decorative and player + Shard bound. Want an armored tiger mount, you gotta participate in VvV. Add Horse armor that works like swampy armor for your VvV Mount, Toss in some house deco in deed form that's account bound. Small Additions make the world go round.
Host Some VvV Events where when a city comes under siege one EM takes one side, the other EM takes the other and they both turn into monsters/spawn monsters for the fight. yeah yeah yeah, griefing, pking, blah blah blah. That's the point. chaos and anarchy. (And how cool would that be, a lot cooler than 200 players running around with greater dragons trying to kill one monster, that's for sure) Then make it a once a month event prime time weekend on Atlantic.
I am all about compromise. You want power scrolls in Trammel I have a very simple solution. For years and years we get 105 power scrolls at our spawns mixed in with the SoTs, Trammel spawns only get SoTs (I am aware they are usually lesser intensity). Remove 105 scrolls from dropping at Felucca spawns. Add those 105's mixed in with the Trammel SoT drops, problem solved PS's in Trammel. My turn-in points will go down but I am willing to make that trade.
This argument will go on forever, the majority of the PvP players are willing to make some sort of sugestions to help the game itself, but it will never be enough to satisfy a few window lickers that just want to continue to play the game where everything is handed to them.
Life isn't fair, now put your big boy pants on and run along.
Merlin
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Please keep crying about it.
There could be some type of "city stone" like structure in some of the dungeons to click on and get the buff. I know only a few of the buffs are used (SSI, SDI, FC1), but it doesn't need to be any more complicated than having city stones. Depending on placement of the buff stone, could create a new area for Reds or stealthers to hang and PVP.
In a big town, the guards can't know all murderers and thieves, I have no problem with having them in Felucca towns. Keep them out of Trammel towns, as we have a few players, who seem to get a heart attack, if they see a red
Nope, colors do not really matter, the actions do
Despise, Destard and Deceit are the most commonly used, since all 3 have a Champ Spawn. The others aren't unless there's a Harrower there or people decide to farm (which is rare, since the loot from some bosses completely eclipses what you can find in dungeons)
Honestly, I'm not sold on the dungeons giving a buff, although it certainly would give us something extra to fight over. How would it work in Destard though? Despise is certainly big enough for having something related to a town buff, as is Deceit. Destard's biggest floor is the first floor, which also has the champ spawn, while the other two floors are relatively small.
As far as your town idea, I kinda like it. Kills two birds with one stone (monster loot AND fighting), and has an end goal to the town, other than the usual farming points/occasionally getting a town fight. When vvv was introduced, I was hoping for a "pick sides, fight for control of town" type of thing, though that doesn't factor in more than 2 guilds fighting. Perhaps make it possible (in towns only) for groups to pick "Vice" and "Virtue" - anyone that selects Vice (or Virtue) would be green to each other, with the opposing being orange? Outside of towns, leave it as is? This assumes it can even be done.
Merlin
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The virtue towns (even in Fel) shouldn't be giving buffs to the anti-virtuous, which I implied by being red.
Reds shouldn't have the same exact buff system. And any new buff system should be something simple and straight forward, not some new bosses or complicated rule set, etc.
Reds shouldn't have the same exact buff system. And any new buff system should be something simple and straight forward, not some new bosses or complicated rule set, etc.
There are shards you can go to to farm scrolls. Or you can pick spawns that aren't guaranteed to be raided - Fel Oaks, Despise, and Tera Keep are the perennial top 3 for raids, with Eodon probably being another.
You seem to think that you HAVE to deal with pvp to get these scrolls. You do not. In fact, it is faster to BUY THEM if you want them, which is how I managed to get complete Magery scroll sets (except for Resist on my tamer) for my mages on Lake Superior, plus another set for my mage on Atlantic. If you do a spawn, you're more likely to get 110's and 115's than you are a 120. Yes, you can bind them, but it's still random chance that you get the 10's/15's you need.
To put it another way, here are the rewards you get in the Trammel and Felucca rulesets:
Trammel: ML Peerless drops, Ararat items, Scrolls of Valiant Commendation from the Clockwork Exodus, Corgul/Scalis, Shadowguard artifacts, Blackthorn dungeon turn-ins, Doom arties, Stygian Abyss artifacts, some Tram-exclusive Champ Spawns (Tokuno, 3 ML champs), in addition to most EM events taking place in the Trammel ruleset facets.
Felucca: Corgul/Scalis, ML Peerless drops, Blackthorn dungeon turn-in rewards, Powerscrolls and Stat Scrolls.
If you don't want to PvP, nobody is stopping you. You don't seem to want to understand that. Items like the 1-tile soul forge, the current Shadowguard drops, Crimson Cincture, and Luck Conjurer's Garb/Blackthorn Hooded Robe (or the Epaulettes, which I believe is more common than the Hooded Robe, due to aesthetics) sell fairly well. If you so desperately want 120's, sell those items and buy them.
As evidenced by this thread, plenty of people want to pvp, and, in fact, are currently active pvp'ers. You want to force UO to become a PvM only game simply because you don't want to pvp. If people wanted a game where the only thing to do was to kill monsters, there are plenty of console/handheld games out there for them to do so. If said game (let's say one of the games in the Legend of Zelda franchise) introduced mandatory pvp content via online play, people would pancake and moan, just like you're doing now about OPTIONAL pvp content.
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they do drop in tram. random off mobs, not the boss. along with pinks.
and you do not really need 120 anything for pvm purposes, so makes perfect sense.
this arguement has been used many times. and would be valid 10 years ago.
However, Since there has been plethora of pvm focused mmos since UO went tram its also a very valid arguemnt that CURRENT (not 2004ish at the peak of UO) subscribtions would be higher now if they had remained (or returned to) UO being a more hardcore style game. that a niche market that UO could have thrived in.
In essence, EA cashed in on high sub numbers for a short time period (when competition from other mmos was still limited) and sacrificed the hardcore / traditional UO players.
in my own estimate, id say subs would be about 300% higher currently if there was no tram, hardcore pvp direction UO. Was that loss of current subs worth the $$ EA made at UOs peak? from a purely business aspect it probably was. it also means lower sub levels now, and that the game wont last as long. which from a business perspective is also a better option. better, quicker $$ made in a shorter time is always better than slightly less $$ made over a much longer time.
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Its true, the most popular servers that shall not be named are based around old school hardcore uo. A lot more to it than just all fel though, so hard to say how it would effect the current player base.
You can have up to seven character slots per server, minus Siege Perilous. Any of those slots can be dedicated to a blue PvM character. There is no way to guarantee not being forced into PvP against your wish going to a Fel spawn.
Red is a playstyle in Felucca, like being a thief, it is a legal playstyle. We are rewarding VvV, reds are not much different, except, they can't go to Trammel zone. Both are concent PvP, as you have to go to Felucca to interact with reds.
We could remove the red color and make all orange to each others unless guild and alliance members.
It's so easy to stay blue and still PK alot and life is so much easier as blue.
- All healers will res you
- You can use the virtue
- Players go grey from attacking or looting you
- You can deal with town npc vendors
- You can go to trammel
- Other blues field spells do not hurt you
It is fun killing other players, it's fun fighting other players and I rather die to an other player than a stupid monster
Sure we had seen a few kids or immature players, who want that. But even the cat play with the mouse before it kill it. I don't believe most reds want to make their victims misserable and cry, it's more about playing with their feelings.
How the red treat you may very well depend of how you react. I had been red in many years and trust me, there are really nasty blue too but like with the nasty reds, they are few.
I have to ask you, did you ever die to a red?
How did you act, when you died?
How did the red act to you after the kill?
As I said easier, it's so easy to be blue again, so most of the reds you see, are mostly red for the RP and to make himself open for PvP so you can attack him for free.
Also if you are treated really bad of reds, there could be a reason, maybe they have a blue char in Trammel too and find you really annoying or maybe you a pain to listen to in the chat.
If we did let reds go to trammel just like VvV can, you would learn to know many of the reds and you would not care so much about color.
Aran it's a game, it's not RL. You do not get PK'ed in UO unless you accept the risk from it. If you play Felucca or if you play on Siege, you accept the risk.
No matter how hard and how smart they make monsters, they can never add the same to the game as PvP can. You know, the monsters are only a piece of code, they will never be as smart and challenging as an other player.
Just like you love to troll the forum and keep board PvP going, some of us like to do it ingame.
No matter how hard and how smart they make monsters, they can never add the same to the game as PvP can. You know, the monsters are only a piece of code, they will never be as smart and challenging as an other player.
Just like you love to troll the forum and keep board PvP going, some of us like to do it ingame.
some guys should clearly search for another game or find their balls...
Why the argument has even lasted this long is beyond me.
You're only repeating what we have heard hundreds of times before, let alone it not having anything of substance to back it.
But please point me in the direction of this mythic shard where there are so many pvpers that you are instantly attacked as soon as you are "forced" to go to fel, because this where I want to be playing.
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Yes, you responding to that is pretty ironic
Harsh punishment? lolno. If you mean being freely attackable by everyone, big deal. It really isn't that much of an issue, nor was it years ago. With VvV, both Reds and Blues are freely attackable by everyone, everywhere in Fel. Other than not necessarily needing to be Red for field fights (although that still has its uses), it's nothing new, except you can now attack people who would otherwise be blue in a guardzone.
For several years (although my account was inactive for most of that time), I had 3 chars, one of which was unfinished, so it never saw much play time. The two that did were my tamer (mostly for the Fel Oaks spawn, because it sucks on a Red or negative karma char) and my PvP char, the latter of which had most of my play time 10 years ago. Even though my PvP char was Red, not ONCE did I ever feel like it was a handicap or a harsh punishment. In fact, I would even say it helped me become a better player, because I had to learn how to deal with multiple people attacking me at any time.
Being red is detrimental to other players? That's funny, because most of my murder counts didn't come from killing Trammies. I did it by killing the noto-PK's who wandered too far from the guardzone at Yew, or from killing the blue alts of known pvp'ers at spawns (which was more likely), which is something even my tamer did on occasion (although I was careful not to go over 4 counts on him, since Forged Pardons didn't exist in those days.) ALL of those people were, despite their different skill levels, willing pvp'ers.
Believe it or not, Fel isn't some nightmarish landscape where there are 239723878237482348618368 Reds waiting to kill you, nor was it when the game had a lot of subscribers.
FYI many players don't have any balls...... and not about to go searching for some.... that comment is a tad sexist.
I don't think he did mean it sexist, it's figuratively for courage.
You could also say some players are chickens and yes, it may mean, they act like women but the funny thing is, it's always men you see cry about PK's, women is better to handle dying to an other player and better to find a way to get along with them.
All the time I did PK, it was always the males, who could not handle it.
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Yup. I understand what Mala's saying, but it's also a figure of speech with that meaning.
I would guess there are more men pvp'ing, but that's not indicative of UO at all. Rather, it's gaming in general. I don't know the exact numbers obviously, but I would guess that the majority of the online gaming population is male.
While I definitely fight more guys than I do women, I don't care if a woman kills me. Simply means she was better than me. Or, in some cases, just managed to get the kill shot.
On Siege, we had always been a lot of females too. A lot of them do not fight, but they do survive fine on a shard with PvP everywhere.
I did not mean, the males had problem with dying to me, because I'm a woman. It's more, that they have trouble with getting killed on a char, that is not skilled for PvP. Many men will be angry, where women will just res and move on.
Many men also have lots of excuses, if they die in a fair fight, instead of just accepting, the other one was better.
I did not mean, the males had problem with dying to me, because I'm a woman. It's more, that they have trouble with getting killed on a char, that is not skilled for PvP. Many men will be angry, where women will just res and move on.
Many men also have lots of excuses, if they die in a fair fight, instead of just accepting, the other one was better.
some guys should clearly search for another game or find their balls...
Since i remember its clearly known that you can get killed in fel. But if you have "balls" you also can be rewarded with nice stuff like powerscrolls. And no one is forcing you to go there you have 4 more worlds where no player can touch you.
I mean how do you even survive in real life. There is no trammel where a Bad thief or a murder cant touch you. Are you even going out of your Front door?
But you are calling me a sexist. Jesus...
I dont meant that AS a sexist comment at all. I am in line with freya because no woman is crying here now about Bad evil PKS.
Since i remember its clearly known that you can get killed in fel. But if you have "balls" you also can be rewarded with nice stuff like powerscrolls. And no one is forcing you to go there you have 4 more worlds where no player can touch you.
I mean how do you even survive in real life. There is no trammel where a Bad thief or a murder cant touch you. Are you even going out of your Front door?
But you are calling me a sexist. Jesus...
Of course there are days where it pi## me off that PKS RAID the champ iam doing especially when i am nearly done but thats life and one and the other pk also lost their life while trying to get my loot.
If you are not a Person who play completely alone you should have some guildies to fight back.
Oh well.. You dont do pvp. Iam sorry!
But Iam pretty sure there are lots of guilds who would offer to protect you and your pvm mates from the evil in the world. But i aasume some people would also to try to get some Bodyguards without paying them.
If you are not a Person who play completely alone you should have some guildies to fight back.
Oh well.. You dont do pvp. Iam sorry!
But Iam pretty sure there are lots of guilds who would offer to protect you and your pvm mates from the evil in the world. But i aasume some people would also to try to get some Bodyguards without paying them.