Everybody is blue nowadays...revamp REDS-PKERS? My ideas...

[Kiss Of Death]

Hello...

nowadays you barely see reds anymore. Everybody needs or uses town bonuses to make proper and great suits.

My suggestion is to create a BLOOD BONUS ( which you gain by donating items and slaying blues). With similar town bonuses and maybe something more...to increase the reds - pker population.

Together with this I would put again a BOUNTY SYSTEM , so that blues really want to kill Reds and chop off the head ...if this is too cruel...instead of chopping the body into pieces ( We loved to do it back in the day...but I understand now time has changed ) ) ... you could create an item to retrive the soul of the pker so that you can bring it to the banker and get various items : special cloaths with unique colours ( labelled for example " I slayed "Pker's name " ).... money...etc etc...

How to give murder counts?

Simple... you can give murder counts to the red once every hour , if the red kills players with under total 700 skill points the murder count can be given just once every day ( to try to avoid ppl farming murder counts)

What do you think?

 

[King Greg]

What, a bonus for being a Pvper and not playing nice with the Trammies?

What sort of nonsense is this.

We must Make it harder for reds! Make all spawns guard zones! Make it so simply Crosshealing a red will make it so you can guardwhack them instantly! Make it so they can't even use Mounts! Make it so bankers don't trust them and they can't insure their armor so it all just drops!

*End sarcasm*

 

[Cetric]

"Dungeon Bonus" instead of town bonus, with Rulers of dungeons instead of governors of towns? lol

 

[JC the Builder]

I think the bigger question is why you would want to create an incentive to murder other players. Murderers are meant to be punished, not rewarded.

 

[Lord Arm]

Hello...

nowadays you barely see reds anymore. Everybody needs or uses town bonuses to make proper and great suits.

My suggestion is to create a BLOOD BONUS ( which you gain by donating items and slaying blues). With similar town bonuses and maybe something more...to increase the reds - pker population.

Together with this I would put again a BOUNTY SYSTEM , so that blues really want to kill Reds and chop off the head ...if this is too cruel...instead of chopping the body into pieces ( We loved to do it back in the day...but I understand now time has changed ) ) ... you could create an item to retrive the soul of the pker so that you can bring it to the banker and get various items : special cloaths with unique colours ( labelled for example " I slayed "Pker's name " ).... money...etc etc...

How to give murder counts?

Simple... you can give murder counts to the red once every hour , if the red kills players with under total 700 skill points the murder count can be given just once every day ( to try to avoid ppl farming murder counts)

What do you think?

the royal pardon multiple use is the reason for no reds. I posted about this before and nothing was done. to create another system wouldn't solve anything unless they make the royal pardons a one time use. reds are the true pkers. my red will never be blue. why make another system that would just use up the devs time and effort. a lot of other things need to be fixed and/or improved on.
its nothing but blue VvV people raiding non blue VvV chars, not caring about murder counts and the non VvV blues turn orange, get many murder counts and are basicly screwed. only way to get justice is kill a red in your freakin house, so lame. why do even need VvV. i had the best time fighting/pvp when there was no factions. this is just my opinion. devs don't seem to care about the lack of reds, they seem to do what they want.

 

[Marquis de Sade 209]

I think the bigger question is why you would want to create an incentive to murder other players. Murderers are meant to be punished, not rewarded.

because it is fun to murder other players

 

[King Greg]

I think the bigger question is why you would want to create an incentive to murder other players. Murderers are meant to be punished, not rewarded.

You cater to every play style, that's how you keep players in a game.

When they opened tram they should of of continued adding exclusive content to fel with every expansion to keep the reds/pvpers/pkers content defending their content. Most returning players I deal with are more interested in the state of pvp than the rest of the game because that's what they remember to be thrilling.

Murderers are already punished to the extreme, tossing them a bone like town buffs wouldn't kill the game.

And being red is nothing more than a slight hinderance these days, spend some money, no longer a murderer, which isn't the punishment you actually want. (most don't care about the few mill/time spent farming VvV points).

So why not give an incentive for players to stay red, what's the point of a game without a few player villains?

 

[Acid Rain]

Everyone is blue now a days because of multi-use Royal Forged Pardons. Pretty simple.

Murderers are already punished to the extreme

And being red is nothing more than a slight hinderance these days

Huh?
What?

Did you actually see what you typed before you hit "reply" ?
You totally contradict yourself less then a dozen words apart. You can't have it both ways.
Either play the "Poor Murderers need a break" card or play the "Whats it matter, being red means nothing" card.
Playing both cards at the same time just negates anything you say & shows a seriously bias agenda.

Murderers are certainly NOT punished in this game anymore. Click a multi-use RFP & your not red.
Don't have a RFP? Buy single use pardons for next to nothing 50k. You cant get into certain lands but
you have easily obtainable items that allow travel anywhere. Make use of them or stop crying.

Red murderers don't have access to Virtues? Reds should never have access to Virtues.
The Virtuous Murderer? LOL, u cant be serious......
Reds don't have access to town buffs? So the same townsfolk that your murdering should give
you something that was made to benefit peacekeeping townsfolk? To bad, so sad....

Those are the ONLY 2 things I'm aware of that could be called punishment.

Before you say I have no idea what being red is like, it took me almost 5 yrs to get my main
PvP char blue. I did this long before RFP came out & lost my last 150 counts buying regular
forged pardons for a crap load more then what they sell for now.

 

[King Greg]

Did you actually see what you typed before you hit "reply" ?
You totally contradict yourself less then a dozen words apart. You can't have it both ways.

Hmm...

You have handicaps if you want to play a red toon, but going from red to blue is easy.

wait....

playing a red = Lots of handicaps
- No town buffs
- can't buy from npcs
- can only play in one facet
- no virtues
- can't be crosshealed in guard zone

Going from red to blue is easy... Few mill, farming some VvV points.

One would almost think the point of this thread was a discussion about why so few players stay red anymore... and the original poster was even trying to suggest new incentives to get players to play red.... Did you read before posting?

 

[cobb]

Hello...

nowadays you barely see reds anymore. Everybody needs or uses town bonuses to make proper and great suits.

My suggestion is to create a BLOOD BONUS ( which you gain by donating items and slaying blues). With similar town bonuses and maybe something more...to increase the reds - pker population.

Together with this I would put again a BOUNTY SYSTEM , so that blues really want to kill Reds and chop off the head ...if this is too cruel...instead of chopping the body into pieces ( We loved to do it back in the day...but I understand now time has changed ) ) ... you could create an item to retrive the soul of the pker so that you can bring it to the banker and get various items : special cloaths with unique colours ( labelled for example " I slayed "Pker's name " ).... money...etc etc...

How to give murder counts?

Simple... you can give murder counts to the red once every hour , if the red kills players with under total 700 skill points the murder count can be given just once every day ( to try to avoid ppl farming murder counts)

What do you think?

I was thinking about a "Vice" system for reds. It would be the like the Virtue system for blues, but for reds. Probably doesn't need 8 different "Vices", 1 or 2 would be enough. It would fit in nicely and add to the lore of Vice vs Virtue system that is already in the game

 

[drcossack]

We need something new to fight over. afaik, nobody really focuses on VvV, and Powerscrolls have been around for over a decade. There's still spawn fighting, but it isn't done out of need.

Everyone who's still Red has been that way for years, during a time when there was actually a point to it. With VvV, everyone who's in it is orange everywhere in Fel. Wipe your counts with a Royal Pardon and you can still PvP without getting any murder counts.

Fel's pretty much had the same content for years, with some different things here and there - PS's, Factions, VvV. The Tram ruleset has Trammel, Ilsh, Malas, Tokuno, Ter Mur, and Eodon. Right now, the only area out of those 6 that's really seeing any use is Eodon, because it's new.

Hmm...

You have handicaps if you want to play a red toon, but going from red to blue is easy.

wait....

playing a red = Lots of handicaps
- No town buffs
- can't buy from npcs
- can only play in one facet
- no virtues
- can't be crosshealed in guard zone

Going from red to blue is easy... Few mill, farming some VvV points.

1) Slight handicap. Before wiping my counts, I didn't even use a town bonus. I still don't.
2) Big whoop, 99% of Reds have a blue to buy from NPCs or in Luna.
3) No big deal really, unless it's your only char on a "dead" shard.
4) Meh, if you're Red, chances are you're not gonna worry about this. Admittedly, having the Virtues on a macro years back was amusing, before the ability for Reds to use them that way was removed. I always liked starting Champs when it normally wasn't possible for me to do so.
5) Although this is one of the reasons why I went Blue again, there's a simple solution: STAY OUT OF THE GUARDZONE.

---------------

Unlike when we all first started PvP'ing, there's no point to being Red anymore - as I'm sure you're aware, the main reason for it was to prevent blues from rushing your spawn, since the fields from Blues only affected Gray/Red players. In my case, I admit I was initially nervous about it, but after crossing that bridge, I got used to it and LOVED every second of it.

I don't have any ideas on new content for PvP, although it'd be nice to have something new that won't fall flat on its face like VvV did.

 

[Aran]

Remove non-consentual PvP from UO

 

[drcossack]

Remove non-consentual PvP from UO

Yeah, if that happens, the plug will get pulled on UO. On LS, on the few occasions where I did run into random people in Fel, it was boring. One time was Fel Ice Dungeon, at the Arctic Ogre Lord spawn point closest to the entrance. I was Red at the time, and the guy bolted so fast, The Flash would've been in awe of his speed.

The second time I ran into him in Fel was at the Primeval Lich spawn, when a tamer was with him. He hid while I beat up on the tamer and the dreadmare, easily killing both (although the dreadmare was a little harder to kill), then he ran into the Underworld, where I couldn't go. Really? He should have helped the player he was with - against two players and a strong pet, I should've died, regardless of their skill level.

There were a few other cases where I ran into randoms in Fel, but they tried to fight. Unfortunately for them, it didn't work out too well, except for one guy who was on a tamer; he had a greater dragon and it took me a while to kill the pet 1v1 (although he went down easily. Granted, it's not hard to kill a tamer who's on foot.)

Most players don't WANT to PvP, which is why there are 6 areas with non-con PvP. Except for the deco in the two SA spawns (which they can also just buy), they never need to go to Fel for anything, and if they decide they want/need scrolls, they can just go to Luna and buy them.

 

[THP]

nope..we good

 

[Thrakkar]

Yeah, if that happens, the plug will get pulled on UO.

If non-consentual PvP would be the only thing, which keeps UO running nowadays, it would already be in a really, really bad state (way beyond saving anyways).

 

[FrejaSP]

I believe we need to rethink the red vs blue thing. There are so many advances from being blue now, that noone want to be red.

VvV and orange is the way to go.
- It's about time to allow VvV to work on Trammel facets too.
- Battle towns will only be on the Fel facet.
- VvV can fight each others in Trammel zone, just like other green and orange
- There will be no fighting in Trammel town zone, not even between orange
- Blue can't attack VvV in Trammel zone and VvV can't attack blue in Trammel zone
- If VvV attack blue in Felucca, they risk a murderer count and if they get 5, they will be red and can't go to Trammel before they are blue again
- If blue attack VvV in Felucca, they will be orange for 2 hours and can be attacked of VvV in Felucca (everywhere) and in Trammel unguarded zones

This will merge the PvP and the non PvP community as blue still will be safe in Trammel but VvV don't have to go to Felucca to fight.
Guilds will have both VvV players and non VvV and if they want to do stuff in Felucca, they can go with the VvV members and feel more safe.

A VvV still get the advantage from being blue and will have access to all facets. Sure he can be attacked in non guarded Trammel zones, but I doubt he will mind that.

 

[FrejaSP]

Remove non-consentual PvP from UO

Just don't remove it from Siege

 

[Acid Rain]

If the evolution of UO has shown time & time again that most players do not wish to PvP,
why are players hell bent on forcing others into a PvP situation?

Oh nm... I forgot they don't like repeatedly fighting the dwindling population of players that enjoy UO PvP. Last comment I will have for this thread
(which I'm sure many are glad to hear) :

Until UO gets serious about stopping "illegal" 3rd party programs OR until they just declare all the programs
legal so EVERYONE can use them, you will NEVER see a large group of non-PvP players try PvP in this game
AND stick with it. You want more players trying & sticking with PvP? There's your solution.

 

[Mervyn]

I agree with the original poster, all the griefers have turned blue in order to increase their griefing ability.

 

[Giggles]

*sigh*

I have wrote novels in defense of fel and pvp on these forums recently. In this thread I think all I am gonna say is...
Ultima Online is one of the few currently available MMO's that punishes the people who wish to pvp. Other games pvp zones are just that... pvp zones. And they have their own perks. If you go into that zone, you consent to combat. No blue red purple or otherwise. Nobody who plays in a pvp zone is forbidden from any perks of a pvm zone. Its a different playstyle, and game developers appreciate that.

In Ultima Online pvmers have LOADS of content. PVPers do not. That is a problem, and bad overall marketing to appeal to all different playstyles in this game. The sandbox is only appealing now to the people who don't chose live combat. A few people would much rather keep pushing their pvm only agenda, while insulting people who find enjoyment out of different challenges in the game. That's just silly, and rather petty and childish. But I guess as long as you are having fun pvming stuff that's all that matters. Continue to insult other playstyles who would like to enjoy something different, if that is your thing I guess.

 

[Smoot]

Theres absolutely no reason to be red anymore. its outdated, theres no benefit, and its very easy to become and stay blue (even if continuing to PK all in fell)

Say your raiding a fel spawn thats 20 non-vvv blues and kill them all. just spend 2mil on regular pardons, or eat another royal. stealing a spawn will probablly even it out, and if your that worried about 2mil as a successful pk than i dunno what to tell you.

Yes a new system could be put in make being red desireable, but it would just be a cool extra, something we really dont need.

Only reason to be red now is if your flat out lazy or for RP / nostalgic purposes.

 

[Giggles]

Theres absolutely no reason to be red anymore. its outdated, theres no benefit, and its very easy to become and stay blue (even if continuing to PK all in fell)

Say your raiding a fel spawn thats 20 non-vvv blues and kill them all. just spend 2mil on regular pardons, or eat another royal. stealing a spawn will probablly even it out, and if your that worried about 2mil as a successful pk than i dunno what to tell you.

Yes a new system could be put in make being red desireable, but it would just be a cool extra, something we really dont need.

Only reason to be red now is if your flat out lazy or for RP / nostalgic purposes.

Not true. There are several combat related reasons to be red. Lets say, my guild wishes to do a harrower in fel for a fight. We all set up a defense and fields, and we are all blue and/or VvV. Guess what the enemy guild can do? They can grab blues non VvV, run through all of our fields that wont flag them, hide next to the boss and take pop shots on him for scroll credit. Now our EQ's and conflags and everything else wont even reveal them because they are blue just like us! There are many many reasons to be red when you are looking for a fight, or looking to defend your own content in fel.

Edit,
And just another example of a person completely unfamiliar with fel rules trying to detail a pro-fel thread.

 

[Smoot]

Not true. There are several combat related reasons to be red. Lets say, my guild wishes to do a harrower in fel for a fight. We all set up a defense and fields, and we are all blue and/or VvV. Guess what the enemy guild can do? They can grab blues non VvV, run through all of our fields that wont flag them, hide next to the boss and take pop shots on him for scroll credit. Now our EQ's and conflags and everything else wont even reveal them because they are blue just like us! There are many many reasons to be red when you are looking for a fight, or looking to defend your own content in fel.

Edit,
And just another example of a person completely unfamiliar with fel rules trying to detail a pro-fel thread.

again, an outdated example. theres little reason to "pvp over" spawns / harrowers. Every serious spawner does it on a dead shard now. if your that worried about pvp why not just set up an arena battle? or do the vvv battles for actual pvp points? you know, the stuff the devs have put in to modernize the pvp system. if you really want to do a harrower, just dont announce it. you could probably do it without a single blue showing up.

in a vvv town (the modern pvp scenerio) everyone there is flagged vvv so fields arnt an issue.

 

[Giggles]

again, an outdated example. theres little reason to "pvp over" spawns / harrowers. Every serious spawner does it on a dead shard now. if your that worried about pvp why not just set up an arena battle? or do the vvv battles for actual pvp points? you know, the stuff the devs have put in to modernize the pvp system. if you really want to do a harrower, just dont announce it. you could probably do it without a single blue showing up.

in a vvv town (the modern pvp scenerio) everyone there is flagged vvv so fields arnt an issue.

A VvV town is not a modern PvP scenario. And most people don't even use them anymore unless they need to farm some silver. The VvV system started out great, but lack of content killed it rather quickly. Fights still happen over spawns and harrowers more then anything else on active and dead servers. My guild wouldn't be doing a harrower for the scrolls. It would be to engage a fight with our enemy guilds, so obviously we are going to announce it. Your image on pvp is outdated if you think VvV towns is where its all at.

 

[Smoot]

A VvV town is not a modern PvP scenario.

sorry UO isnt the pvp you remember from a decade ago. need to just adjust to changing times, like any good pvper should be used to when it comes to strategy, gear, templates, battlefields, etc. so what if your fields dont work for oldshool choke points people did 20 years ago. we have vvv now, thats what the Devs implemented to "fight over" so if your not doing it, your loss.

 

[Giggles]

sorry UO is not the pvp you remember from a decade ago. need to just adjust to changing times, like any good pvper should be used to when it comes to strategy, gear, templates, battlefields, etc. so what if your fields dont work for oldshool choke points people did 20 years ago. we have vvv now, thats what the Devs implemented to "fight over" so if your not doing it, your loss.

I think it is you who is unfamiliar with current pvp and tactics. I bet you can go into any VvV town right now on any server and you won't find a fight. So I am suppose to sit around in VvV towns all day and wait for a fight that will never come to me? I might get lucky and find a random thief? That is your solution? I will tell everyone in general chat that they are doing it wrong, and to leave their spawns and harrowers to come fight me in a town! I think that is just silly lol. PvP happens where there is something to fight over with your guild as a team. The towns offer nothing desired to be fought over anymore, so people don't fight there usually. I am sorry if that is hard for you to understand. I don't know how else to explain modern pvp to you . Perhaps you should just come try it, and educate yourself in "Modern pvp". I would love to have more educated opinions on these forums, and of course more people in fel!

 

[Whitewolf of *VK*]

I think the bigger question is why you would want to create an incentive to murder other players. Murderers are meant to be punished, not rewarded.

I agree, murders should be punished not rewarded, do away with pardons bring back stat loss and dont allow them in towns, thats what buccs den was created for, and yes back in the day when all that was in effect i played a red character, made it more challenging not like it is today. and for those that love pvp well you got VvV for that and guilds still have the option to declare war on each other

 

[Podolak]

I haven't PvP'd in a couple months, mostly due to RL obligations. Now I am doing the new content but when that is over it'll be back to PvP. With that taken into consideration I will say my most enjoyable PvP experiences are spawn fights. I can't remember the last time I raided an unsuspecting spawn but my group has initiated spawns and called them out for fights. Its still something people like to fight over. Whichever group ends up taking the scrolls in the end (and now masteries) "wins". I don't know how VvV could be changed to bring that kind of situation but it still exists (though not nearly as prevalent as the past) in the form of spawn fights. People like bragging rights. Even if the scrolls are complete crap one team "won" and that seems to be enough. There are plenty of "safe" places to spawn and yet people still do harrowers on ATL or during prime time and still work Despise which is the most scouted spawn. Why? Not for the scrolls, for the fights.

With that said, being a red mage is invaluable. I would be hard pressed to justify the need to be red on a dexxer (need vs want mind you) but as a mage it really is an advantage in the above scenarios. No I don't think reds should be punished anymore than they already are. It would be neat if there was some incentive to "stay" red. Mostly I am raided by blue VvVs who just chew pardons when they are done. It would be nice to know who the real murders are. When blues show up now you just don't know what their intentions are unless of course you are familiar with the character names.

Red fielding is not a thing of the past, its still used and still useful. What is a thing of the past is knowing who the true "PKers" are. Those lines did get seriously blurred with pardons.

Just my .02.

 

[Smoot]

I think it is you who is unfamiliar with current pvp and tactics. I bet you can go into any VvV town right now on any server and you won't find a fight. So I am suppose to sit around in VvV towns all day and wait for a fight that will never come to me? I might get lucky and find a random thief? That is your solution? I will tell everyone in general chat that they are doing it wrong, and to leave their spawns and harrowers to come fight me in a town! I think that is just silly lol. PvP happens where there is something to fight over with your guild as a team. The towns offer nothing desired to be fought over anymore, so people don't fight there usually. I am sorry if that is hard for you to understand. I don't know how else to explain modern pvp to you . Perhaps you should just come try it, and educate yourself in "Modern pvp". I would love to have more educated opinions on these forums, and of course more people in fel!

short answer. Yes. realisitically a thread that suggests improvements to VVV is MUCH more likely to be noticed and implemented by the devs than changes to the outdated RED/BLUE system thats being phased out.

Perhaps you could start a thread with some new reward suggestion for vvv that could be easily implement. the changes suggested for bounties etc could all be tied into this system. theres no need for reds anymore and the devs have decided this, not me.

youll always be able to do spawns, its not like thats vanished. i think your too focused on just keeping things how they were, rather than progressive, realistic changes to current modern systems.

 

[Podolak]

A really radical consideration that I haven't thought out very well but just a general idea for discussion...

What if everyone was orange in Felucca (unless you were guilded or allied to them)? Do away with murder counts completely. If you hit the red gate you are open to attack. I suppose you could make it so if you are in guard zones you are not attackable unless you join the VvV system?

First issue is people do play with non-allied people in Felucca and area affects need to be used conscientiously.

I don't want to see "reds" disappear but so many in UO seem against them, is this an answer?

 

[Giggles]

short answer. Yes. realisitically a thread that suggests improvements to VVV is MUCH more likely to be noticed and implemented by the devs than changes to the outdated RED/BLUE system thats being phased out.

Perhaps you could start a thread with some new reward suggestion for vvv that could be easily implement. the changes suggested for bounties etc could all be tied into this system. theres no need for reds anymore and the devs have decided this, not me.

youll always be able to do spawns, its not like thats vanished. i think your too focused on just keeping things how they were, rather than progressive, realistic changes to current modern systems.

I am always asking for changes and additions to the VvV system. I am always asking for them to visit pvp with more modern eyes.
I have never spoken to the contrary in this thread.
You said there is no point to being red other than laziness or nostalgia. And I was just saying under modern pvp and where the fights currently happen, you are wrong. The system has needed some TLC for a long time. But anytime any type of fel related thread pops up, the head hunters roll in, and make pvp sound like the abomination of UO, and housing for all the degenerates of society. Some of the devs even rolled into the HOT forums, and came up with the conclusion that the 7 people arguing over there, represent the vast pvp community. No matter what I say or try in any of these threads, uneducated (to pvp not meant as a insult) pvmers have a whole lot to say that makes no sense, and the real pvp community is drowned out in the gibberish of it all. Very much like your post.

 

[OREOGL]

PVP in this game has changed dramatically.

Originally, there were many "reds" because they would kill other players for items in game and it was the main PVP system, even over chaos/order or guild pvp.

Later the was still reason to be red when defending or griefing factions, if you didn't want to play in factions but still wanted to pvp, or trying to obtain powerscrolls etc despite the introduction of insurance.

Reds continued on through the death of factions as main pvp system but the items reasoning became less likely as power scrolls became more abundant and UO population continued to decline.

Today's scenario of VVV has just about every PVPer left in the game in it, and those who want to participate in pvp that aren't in it are included anyway to prevent griefing of the system.

The murder system is no longer the primary pvp system and pvp has consolidated to one or two shards. So if you want to pvp you must be able to either transfer regularly or have multiple characters on each shard.

I don't really see any reason to provide incentives for being red, there are few pvpers in the game left and there is no longer any reason to become red.

 

[Smoot]

@Giggles

dunno what to tell you. maybe use the new virtues, town bonus and you wont have to rely on fields so much. many other cc effects have come out over the years, basing a whole arguement off "my fields dont work on blues" just seems a bit short-sighted.

 

[Podolak]

Although I am not sure tweaks to the VvV system are next on the Dev's to do list perhaps a nice addition to towns would be a slight PvM component. Some really challenging champion that spawns when a VvV town battle is active. This would give PvPers something to defend (while their PvM friend kill the champ). Maybe the only reward for the champ is notoriety of how many champs were defended and won? Perhaps everyone in guild gets the notoriety as some would be doing damage to the champ and others would be defending.

This notoriety would circumvent people who are upset about things only being obtained in Felucca. Notoriety has no practical purpose besides bragging rights so people who dislike Fel have no real need of it.

 

[OREOGL]

Although I am not sure tweaks to the VvV system are next on the Dev's to do list perhaps a nice addition to towns would be a slight PvM component. Some really challenging champion that spawns when a VvV town battle is active. This would give PvPers something to defend (while their PvM friend kill the champ). Maybe the only reward for the champ is notoriety of how many champs were defended and won? Perhaps everyone in guild gets the notoriety as some would be doing damage to the champ and others would be defending.

This notoriety would circumvent people who are upset about things only being obtained in Felucca. Notoriety has no practical purpose besides bragging rights so people who dislike Fel have no real need of it.

Only tweak I could imagine is those who attack outside of VVV, regardless of being flagged orange, take a count anyways for every time they actually kill/gank someone in VVV.

This wouldn't be sustainable though, people would either stop doing it or just join VVV anyways.

 

[Podolak]

Only tweak I could imagine is those who attack outside of VVV, regardless of being flagged orange, take a count anyways for every time they actually kill/gank someone in VVV.

There is a lot of merit to that thought. Right now the penalty for non-VvV ganking VvV is negligible.

 

[Smoot]

Although I am not sure tweaks to the VvV system are next on the Dev's to do list perhaps a nice addition to towns would be a slight PvM component.

pvm content would be nice, but really just some good rewards would suffice. really good, pvp focused rewards have been suggested in the VVV forum.

In addition, just some basic stuff like bless deeds, hair dyes, maybe special ethy mounts would keep the system going and popular forever.

 

[Podolak]

pvm content would be nice, but really just some good rewards would suffice. really good, pvp focused rewards have been suggested in the VVV forum.

In addition, just some basic stuff like bless deeds, hair dyes, maybe special ethy mounts would keep the system going and popular forever.

Special VvV ethy mount is neat! Doesn't affect non-Felucca players at all. I totally agree with a lot of the pvp oriented rewards. The main issue I've seen in the past is even pvp specific items are called out by non-PvPers as being a problem if only attainable in Felucca. I think the stigma is a real challenge in general. It seems hard for either side of this coin to fully consider the other.

Constructive criticize is a good thing though, if it stays that way. I have definitely learned a few things reading some of these discussions, I've also been frustrated reading some of them too.

 

[Peekay]

Theres absolutely no reason to be red anymore. its outdated, theres no benefit, and its very easy to become and stay blue (even if continuing to PK all in fell)

Say your raiding a fel spawn thats 20 non-vvv blues and kill them all. just spend 2mil on regular pardons, or eat another royal. stealing a spawn will probablly even it out, and if your that worried about 2mil as a successful pk than i dunno what to tell you.

Yes a new system could be put in make being red desireable, but it would just be a cool extra, something we really dont need.

Only reason to be red now is if your flat out lazy or for RP / nostalgic purposes.

[Edited]

Tell me there is no reason to be red when you have non-VvV blues raiding your harrower that you're defending on your blues, and they just run through the fields.

Stick to your events.

 

[drcossack]

@Giggles

dunno what to tell you. maybe use the new virtues, town bonus and you wont have to rely on fields so much. many other cc effects have come out over the years, basing a whole arguement off "my fields dont work on blues" just seems a bit short-sighted.

Except it isn't. There are still some people who pvp that aren't in VvV, but I suspect that number is very small. The fields argument is valid, although I disagree with Giggles on how necessary it is. Admittedly, this is based on my own experience, where everyone that PvP's has their chars in VvV; she plays a lot more shards than I do, so her experiences with actual blues are likely very different. I would guess it's mostly tamers though, with some sampires sprinkled in for beating up on the champ/Harrower.

 

[Smoot]

You're an idiot.

Tell me there is no reason to be red when you have non-VvV blues raiding your harrower that you're defending on your blues, and they just run through the fields.

Stick to your events.

im saying the entire notion of a harrower being the main focus of pvp is outdated and not worthy of altering the current systems the devs decided to put in place.

forged pardons, royal pardons, 2 new virtues with very useful pvp bonuses. town bonuses. an entire system they spend over a year on to enable more available targets without the possibility of going red.

If you think blues running thru fields, made to protect outdated pvp content is something the devs would raise a finger, let alone working another entire system of some sort we must be playing a different UO.

im trying to be realistic. UO is not the game it was, just seems silly for people to live in the past.

 

[Peekay]

The fields argument is valid, although I disagree with Giggles on how necessary it is

dunno what to tell you. maybe use the new virtues, town bonus and you wont have to rely on fields so much. many other cc effects have come out over the years, basing a whole arguement off "my fields dont work on blues" just seems a bit short-sighted.

Fields are very relevant, especially when we have 3 people and are fighting 10+ and we actually want to fight, not run away all night and trash talk in genchat about how "if it was even numbers nobody would stand a chance, --blah blah"

 

[drcossack]

im saying the entire notion of a harrower being the main focus of pvp is outdated and not worthy of altering the current systems the devs decided to put in place.

While the scroll rewards are outdated, since everyone has them, the scrolls aren't why the Harrowers still happen. They're advertised BECAUSE people will come fight. A while back, I went to a Harrower on Atl (in Hythloth), and there were a ****load of people. I've done a lot of spawn fighting, and there are very few that stand out for being a hell of a lot of fun. That Harrower was one of them, although I didn't do much.

You don't get fights like that in VvV towns. You seem to be misunderstanding why PvP'ers choose to fight where we do. It isn't for the scrolls that drop as a result of killing the champ, nor the items on its corpse.

VvV has fallen flat on its face. If you do see people at all, it'll just be a thief/group of them, and you won't be able to kill them because they'll just stay hidden/out of your way.

Fields are very relevant, especially when we have 3 people and are fighting 10+ and we actually want to fight, not run away all night and trash talk in genchat about how "if it was even numbers nobody would stand a chance, --blah blah"

Oh, I know. Without them up it's too easy for a group to rush in, even when orange, and kill everyone because they're not playing defense. While it does suck when 2 people get raided by 5+, that's just the way the game goes.

 

[Podolak]

Fields and area affects are important to be red. Prior to focused mage 30 sdi my primary pvp mage had spellweaving and I got a lot of utility out of that.

 

[Peekay]

im saying the entire notion of a harrower being the main focus of pvp is outdated and not worthy of altering the current systems the devs decided to put in place.

A harrower serves one purpose only for me and my guildies/friends, and that is to bait fights. It may seem a little bit weird to you and you probably don't grasp the concept very well, but pvpers have to rely on themselves to create content, we dont have EMs to slap some halfassed idea together and then give us a prize for showing up and call it content. There are very few actually active servers to find pvp on every night these days, and that means that pvpers who actually want to pvp have to branch across multiple different servers and gauge the activity. And in some instances, if there are particularly rowdy locals on a server, a harrower tends to bait them out for contest.. Why? Not for the scrolls, but more often because "It's our server, we are X guild, we live here, we're not putting up with their bs" or something a long those lines. People have also learned that when we pop a harry, a fight is all we want, since we pretty much always leave the harrower for whoever wants it once we've had our fill and it's time to goto bed.

 

[Smoot]

Well, interesting initial discussion. good luck getting the devs to work for another year re-vamping another entire pvp system (after you all say they just fail anyway) to revitalize the need for reds when they just spent the last few years taking steps to minimize the need to go red.

doesnt seem very realistic to me at all but i suppose its a nice pipe dream.

 

[Old Vet Back Again]

Well, interesting initial discussion. good luck getting the devs to work for another year re-vamping another entire pvp system (after you all say they just fail anyway) to revitalize the need for reds when they just spent the last few years taking steps to minimize the need to go red.

doesnt seem very realistic to me at all but i suppose its a nice pipe dream.

They all do flop because they don't listen to the pvpers in the focus groups. They have ideas that they think are "good" then when announced they receive feedback stating that they are all pretty dumb and not going to actually entice anyone they STILL stick to their original concept.

Since trammies on stratics do not like "fel" and feel it can be removed I really don't understand why they would care if they placed the fel dungeons onto 1 server. Hell, put all of felucca onto 1 server. Seeing as how Fel is so undesirable and no one wants homes there...

 

[drcossack]

They all do flop because they don't listen to the pvpers in the focus groups. They have ideas that they think are "good" then when announced they receive feedback stating that they are all pretty dumb and not going to actually entice anyone they STILL stick to their original concept.

Since trammies on stratics do not like "fel" and feel it can be removed I really don't understand why they would care if they placed the fel dungeons onto 1 server. Hell, put all of felucca onto 1 server. Seeing as how Fel is so undesirable and no one wants homes there...

Were there even any PvP'ers in the focus group for VvV? As I recall, there weren't. But it wouldn't really have helped matters if it was nothing but.

On LS, they don't even like the trashtalk in gen chat. Really? I'm sorry we were interrupting the chat that had absolutely nothing going on. But they'll have houses in Fel, do some PvM there, etc.

 

[Smoot]

Were there even any PvP'ers in the focus group for VvV? As I recall, there weren't. But it wouldn't really have helped matters if it was nothing but.

On LS, they don't even like the trashtalk in gen chat. Really? I'm sorry we were interrupting the chat that had absolutely nothing going on. But they'll have houses in Fel, do some PvM there, etc.

there were a good number, probably some names you would know. (i was not one of them because i gave up on production UO pvp about 5or6 years ago as anything more than casual) some play free shards mostly (where theres more of a pvp focus)

yes, the devs simply ignored alot of the input. and made changes to the final vvv product that wasnt discussed with the group at all. that being said, bashing the devs isnt exactly the way to go to expect them to meet any perceived need for adjustment or updates.

 

[Giggles]

The only change that would fix the broken red vs blue vs grey system would be to make the entire fel facet complete VvV rules. the second you enter fel you are VvV. The only people who you don't agro with aoe's would be anyone green (in your own guild/alliance).
That is really the only solution, and so radical I doubt it would even raise a eyebrow among the devs.

The other fix fel needs is more fel only content. But the all of the pvm's who want the said content, will resort to insulting fel players like they always do, and threaten to quit the game because they can't have that stuff without buying it or going to fel.

Its the same argument and cycle over and over and over again.