You are trolling. No amount of logic, intelligent arguments, or plain common sense has any chance of denting your negativity. Discussing just about anything with you is pointless...
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Not sure if you mean UO Assist or UO Automap there - in ten years plus of playing, I've never used or 'needed' UOAssist, so I'm guessing you mean Automap, which was extremely useful.
Were I to take your purist stance about the EC, I assume that in your terms those who use UOA (whichever product you mean) - as well as those who use Cartographer (as apparently you do since you have asked about how to use it's settings) - fall into your own definition of 'cheats'?
After all, EA/Mythic have only 'approved', or at least consented to not debar, those products and using them gives an 'advantage' over those using only the game client. It does seem logical to assume they have 'approved' the Beta EC. So why would you say one is 'cheating', but not the others....
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
Your relentless arguments for "allowing cheating with the Classic Client" and the "get rid of the Enhanced Client because it allows cheating" that I find are tiring and quite transparent. I don't understand the argument that people can't "compete" in a game without cheating... thousands of players do just that quite well in UO. At one time I thought maybe you were trying to make a valid point, but now all I see is that you don't want your favorite CC cheat program to be blocked.
It's your postings that have convinced me more than ever that UO will be a better place with all cheat programs blocked and cheaters banned.
I'm not going to argue with this, because everyone in this thread has already done so for me. I'm just going to say this: You can tell you're a troll when even other people who dislike the EC start calling you an idiot.
That and when you have 3 locked threads on the UHall front page at one time, like you did last week.
You are a master of irony, sir. Kudos to you.
Could you please enumerate those aspects?
I don't know of any gameplay-impacting things you can do (and have it not be considered cheating by EA) in the EC that you can't do in the 2D client without being considered a cheat.
No more than the 2D client becomes a huge mess of spell icons.
That is not true.
Both clients have the same level of cheat prevention. The only difference is that there are more 3rd party apps available for the 2D client.
I wasn't the one crying about trolling you was...
Your comprehension is a D- this month...kudos...
The other difference is that the EC will log you out after some minutes of macroing, no matter what. So running macros endlessly while afk is not possible with the EC, but it is possible with the Classic Client.
And people, all this "unfair advantage" discussion is quite polemic. I haven't discovered any noteworthy advantage between the two clients, except from better usability in the EC. And I wouldn't call that unfair. After all, you have the freedom to choose whatever client you like.
It could be a number of things, actually, some of which fall under the "laptop's fault" category.
The most likely problems include:
1. Outdated drivers or directx (can cause choppiness, blurring, and other issues that can trigger motion sickness)
2. An outdated video card that doesn't meet the minimum requirements of the client (can cause choppiness, blurring, and other issues that can trigger motion sickness)
3. A video card that fits the minimum requirements, but doesn't work properly because of an issue with the card and/or the client (can cause choppiness, blurring, and other issues that can trigger motion sickness)
4. Slow components (CPU, memory, hard drive...) causing choppiness
5. The way things are rendered causes motion sickness for you (which can actually be split into a number of different causes, some of which cause people to feel ill playing the 2D client as well)
6. You were experiencing temporary medical problems at the time you tried using the client, causing you to have high sensitivity to light and motion
7. A combination of the above and/or other unlisted things that can contribute to motion sickness
K
Kiminality
Guest
Actually, it's also possible that the smooth motion of the EC results in motion sickness.
Since motion sickness is caused often by the disparities between perceived motions and actual motion, the primary differences in this sense between the CC and EC is the smooth motion. Limiting the frame rate to 10fps, which is the same as the CC, should in theory break up the perception of motion.
That a post is locked is not often the fault of the OP, mostly the following debate.
As for the rest, just usual troll nonsense.
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That a post is locked is not often the fault of the OP, mostly the following debate.
Trying your best to prove this one yourself in this thread?
If the shoe fits...
Are you accusing myself and others here who use the EC of cheating directly with this statement?
That a post is locked is not often the fault of the OP, mostly the following debate.
Trying your best to prove this one yourself in this thread?
If the shoe fits...
Are you accusing myself and others here who use the EC of cheating directly with this statement?
That was part of what I was considering "the way things are rendered", but I hadn't ever thought of lowering the framerate as a solution (probably because I have the opposite problem, where the low framerate of the 2D client gives me motion sickness [but only if I take an extended break from that client, because I get used to it quickly]).
*makes a note to add that to his list of suggestions*
K
Kiminality
Guest
There's no option for 10fps in the options dialogue, but it can be changed through the config XML files.
T
Tukaram
Guest
The only problem I have had with the EC is that I move too fast; I tend to overshoot doors on a regular basis. It runs great for me. And I'm on an old Compaq piece of crap computer.
It even runs on my netbook, but the screen is so small I really can't see much and playing on a touchpad is weird to me.
It even runs on my netbook, but the screen is so small I really can't see much and playing on a touchpad is weird to me.
Either you're making this up, you're using the overclock for the few netbook graphics cards or its a super netbook.
And sure it can run on just about anything, but it will be unplayable on many due to jerkiness and lag.
So what you're saying is that the EC is utter crap and can't be used to train skills etc. especially those that require repeated actions?
And considering that there's cheats that allows AFK macroing for the EC, your statement seems highly unlikely in what you're describing as. Though if remotely true, it again gives a one-up for the cheaters compared to the regular players.
Not being able to repeat actions for more than a short while = crap. So hence, it is what he's saying.
Its not a "spin" and using the term noting something when you're in a dual role of both moderator and poster is an unfortunate mix-up.
O
Old Man of UO
Guest
Absolute thickheaded nonsense, or an outright lie... I'm not sure which it is that you are doing. That is NOT what Hawkeye_Pike is saying and you know it. You are just twisting other people's words to suit your own agenda of "cheating-should-be-okay." It's old and tiring.
What he is saying is that you cannot run macros unattended with the enhanced client, like you can with the classic client. I can and do train all of my skills with the EC, just fine.
I wish someone had a suggestion for me 
I've been trying to install the darn thing for months. All I get is this:
Actually, Windows XP X 64
I've been trying to install the darn thing for months. All I get is this:EAsyinfo says: Operating SystemMicrosoft Windows Server 2003 family, Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 3790)Fail
Actually, Windows XP X 64
Thank you for the 73 posts to my original questions. 2 or 3 of them actually took the time to provide me with an answer, whilst the rest got sidetracked amid the usual UO bickering. Nice to see that in my year or so away nothing much has changed ... at least as far as uhall posters are concerned.
Anyhoo ... The Enhanced Client. Ive been trying it out and its still a blurry, messy, mismatch of wrongly scaled mobs and items. House deco looks crap. If this really is the best they can do a year or so after releasing beta then we can safely consign EC to the trash can along with the 3d client and the KR client (remember that? ... thats the one that when 95% of us were playing it they would stop supporting the classic client). Hilarious.
So ... they can tinker around as much as they like with bugs and glitches but I'll wager that this client will NEVER get formally released. It will stay in beta until they pull the plug on either it, or UO. You'd think that after 3 failed attempts to replace the original client then the penny would drop ... you cant replace it, hence the 3 epic fails.
Thanks to the UO devs, and you bickering lot here on uhall, I am reminded once again why I quit. I used to get embroiled in these uhall slanging matches and was probably too close to see it, but after a year away and coming back and seeing it with fresh eyes, you all look like a bunch of whining kids. Grow up for gods sake.
I'm off to play something better. With adults.
Bye
Anyhoo ... The Enhanced Client. Ive been trying it out and its still a blurry, messy, mismatch of wrongly scaled mobs and items. House deco looks crap. If this really is the best they can do a year or so after releasing beta then we can safely consign EC to the trash can along with the 3d client and the KR client (remember that? ... thats the one that when 95% of us were playing it they would stop supporting the classic client). Hilarious.
So ... they can tinker around as much as they like with bugs and glitches but I'll wager that this client will NEVER get formally released. It will stay in beta until they pull the plug on either it, or UO. You'd think that after 3 failed attempts to replace the original client then the penny would drop ... you cant replace it, hence the 3 epic fails.
Thanks to the UO devs, and you bickering lot here on uhall, I am reminded once again why I quit. I used to get embroiled in these uhall slanging matches and was probably too close to see it, but after a year away and coming back and seeing it with fresh eyes, you all look like a bunch of whining kids. Grow up for gods sake.
I'm off to play something better. With adults.
Bye
Are you using an account with admin privileges? The client might be getting permission errors when it tries to do something.I wish someone had a suggestion for me
EAsyinfo says: Operating SystemMicrosoft Windows Server 2003 family, Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 3790)Fail
Actually, Windows XP X 64
Have you tried running the patcher with your firewall and antivirus disabled? Your firewall or antivirus might be blocking access to something the patcher needs.
Those are the only things I can think of that might be causing it to fail off the top of my head. Have you opened a support ticket on it? Mythic hopefully can figure out more reasons why you might be seeing those errors.
http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=187692
This thread should help with the blurryness, It also helps if you change the mouse scroll to something else, I have mine set to None instead of Zoom In/Out as the zoom is useless.
If anyone on these boards can imagine...a discussion with the comments preceding this highly appropriate observation... in TeamSpeak. Oh. My. God.
Imagine it, be dismayed, and be glad this is a typing forum.
Srsly. I speak from experience here. No joke.
Ugh, Win XP 64 bit. It is a very poorly supported operating system. You might go see if there are any updates for your chipset drivers, but if there aren't any you might want to consider upgrading to 64 bit Windows 7. In fact you'd probably even do better with a 64 bit GNU/Linux distro...I wish someone had a suggestion for me
EAsyinfo says: Operating SystemMicrosoft Windows Server 2003 family, Professional Service Pack 2 (Build 3790)Fail
Actually, Windows XP X 64
Two observations:
1. Good luck finding an MMO without animated and sometimes heated discussion involving all kinds of issues. In fact you would probably have a hard time finding a completely dead one without any heated arguments going on somewhere about it - although there won't be any official forums so they may be harder to find.
2. Sounds a bit to me like someone had their mind made up before they asked their questions.
I have a 486 notebook with an nVidia 6600go video card in it, and 3gb of memory - not top of the line, nor even remotely close, and it plays the EC just fine. Of course, it's not what most would consider a laptop, but was termed a desktop replacement, and was designed for gaming.
My 386 with the ATI Rage64 in it will actually play it as well, although very poorly. The CC does just fine. And that's with 512mb of system memory, 8mb of video memory and Win98.
There are very few integrated video systems out there (most of them designed by Intel, but there are a few others that aren't ATI or nVidia) that handle DX programs well. They make them less powerful for a large number of reasons, the 2 primary ones being cost and heat. Heat in a laptop/netbook = death of internal components at an exponentially faster rate than in a desktop.
Intel has made some great strides in their integrated video chipsets. Some of them are actually on par with nVidia and ATI from 2-3 generations ago. But most of them aren't even on par with the old VooDoo2 cards.
But just because a netbook is new technology doesn't mean it's gaming capable technology - in reality, most of them don't have the graphics capability of my old 386, specifically because they weren't designed to run games. And for as much as I hate on EA, in this instance, they shouldn't be designing for sub-standard computers. Basically, if your machine can't play Fallout 3, Oblivion, or even Morrowind, then you really shouldn't complain if it can't play the EC properly. It's the same graphics engine, and has basically the same system requirements.
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Ditto/Two observations:
1. Good luck finding an MMO without animated and sometimes heated discussion involving all kinds of issues. In fact you would probably have a hard time finding a completely dead one without any heated arguments going on somewhere about it - although there won't be any official forums so they may be harder to find.
2. Sounds a bit to me like someone had their mind made up before they asked their questions.
L
Locryn Finck
Guest
Lord Chaos has a point - I'm surprised more people are not upset and on his side actually.
The EC lets you create "equip weapon" macros which do it almost instantly. To pvprs, this is a huge advantage. It allows you to cycle a vast amount of weapons and specials incredibly fast. The same equip macros through UOA on the classic client are slow to a point of detriment. You are forced to use an "equip last weapon" macro and set up your combo in advance to switch quickly.
Then of course the speed and auto avoidance. Obviously huge. Huge huge. Surprising that they put this in.
It really is sanctioned advantages over other players in the game. It sucks because a lot of people just want to enjoy UO without having to look at the ugly mess of the EC. But there is no question, if you force yourself and learn the ins and outs, the EC offers significant gameplay advantages that can NOT be obtained by CC users.
Those who don't see these things are likely not pvping.
The EC lets you create "equip weapon" macros which do it almost instantly. To pvprs, this is a huge advantage. It allows you to cycle a vast amount of weapons and specials incredibly fast. The same equip macros through UOA on the classic client are slow to a point of detriment. You are forced to use an "equip last weapon" macro and set up your combo in advance to switch quickly.
Then of course the speed and auto avoidance. Obviously huge. Huge huge. Surprising that they put this in.
It really is sanctioned advantages over other players in the game. It sucks because a lot of people just want to enjoy UO without having to look at the ugly mess of the EC. But there is no question, if you force yourself and learn the ins and outs, the EC offers significant gameplay advantages that can NOT be obtained by CC users.
Those who don't see these things are likely not pvping.
You're both waayyyy off the mark, that error has nothing to do with admin privileges, poorly supported, firewalls or anything like that.
Windows XP 64 is *NOT* Windows XP, its built on Windows Server architecture with a watered down XP capabilities. This is why it detects it as a server operating system. So unless EA allows the EC to run on Server operating systems (unlikely) or the check can be bypassed somehow, then its an unfixable problem.
Yes, you are better off upgrading to Windows 7 64 Bit.
I've tried:
compatability with XP
compatability with 98
run as admin
run as admin + compatability XP
run as admin + compatability 98
I've sent my patchlog to EA, I didn't try a 'help ticket'. Last time I tried to get help that way I just got confused. I'll see if I can navigate it.
I tried turning my firewall off - I'm too darned stupid to work out how to turn off the antivirus.
I guess I'll ask my son to look at it next time he visits.
edit: and it took so long to type all that I didn't see Lord Chaos' answer till after I posted it. So. It's saving up for windows 7 then. I guess I better look up how much that is. Small fortune I expect.
Yes, the equip macros in the EC are a lot better than the ones in CC... but that is an argument to have them added to the CC, not remove them from the EC. There are probably technical issues with adding the functionality to the CC, because of the limits in the macro system.
This is a new capability that has never been available through cheats as far as I know, and something that people have requested for a very long time.
I can understand it being argued that this feature is a cheat, but I think doing so would be a mistake. It is a feature that makes sense, and should exist in the game in my opinion.
The EC and CC peak at the same speed. The EC just handles lag better. No cheat there, just technical limitations of the CC that probably wouldn't be cost-effective to try and fix.
The auto-avoidance can cause just as much of a problem as it can give an advantage, and a player who knows the environment can almost always find a better path than the one the auto-avoidance gives, and never does anything that you cannot manually reproduce in the CC by just thinking ahead.
I cannot see how either of those things can be considered cheats.
Now this kind of answer makes me wonder why I keep wasting my time with trying to give objective answers to questions in this forum anymore.
It very much seems to me that the OP had a prejudice in the first place, and just used this thread to start another troll fest. Mission accomplished!
(House deco looks like crap? This guy hasn't even used the EC yet, otherwise he would have noticed that house deco is exactly identical to the Classic Client.)
L
Locryn Finck
Guest
I didn't actually call it a "cheat" - but it IS an advantage over CC players. It is. This is not a dig on people USING the EC, or a call to REMOVE them. In fact, if they want to add equip weapon macros to the CC then great. Auto avoid? Even better. If it is possible, I would like to see them add those things to the CC. Why they are so fixated on convincing people to "switch" is beyond me. As if the make or break reason to play UO or not is graphics... KNOW THY AUDIENCE EA!!!
Lord Chaos used the word "cheat", and you said he had a point... I figured you were explaining that point.
Because there are technical limitations in the CC client that prevent it from improving enough to gain many of the advantages that the EC client has (without re-writing so much of it that it would be more costly than making a new client, and have just as many people complaining about the changes as you have by making a whole new client).
And considering that they're keeping and adding some improvements to the CC client, and got rid of some of the KR enhancements to help them continue to support the CC... EA does know their audience, and is trying their best to cater to it.
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The things that are holding the CC from having all the neat features of the EC is the CC itself!
The things that are holding the EC from being finished is the CC
The classic client is at or near the limits of what can be done with it !
these are things the developers have talked about in the past and as Gildar said they are trying to make everyone happy by supporting both clients !
and this in my opinion is what is holding the EC back !
The things that are holding the EC from being finished is the CC
The classic client is at or near the limits of what can be done with it !
these are things the developers have talked about in the past and as Gildar said they are trying to make everyone happy by supporting both clients !
and this in my opinion is what is holding the EC back !
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2. Sounds a bit to me like someone had their mind made up before they asked their questions.
I agree with this, that was my first impression as well after: Ive been trying it out and its still a blurry, messy, mismatch of wrongly scaled mobs and items. House deco looks crap. If this really is the best they can do a year or so after releasing beta then we can safely consign EC to the trash can along with the 3d client and the KR client (remember that? ... thats the one that when 95% of us were playing it they would stop supporting the classic client). Hilarious.
Especially when the graphics he derides so heavily are the ORIGINAL UO GRAPHICS The ONLY graphical upgrades that the EC has as of now are the terrain (downgraded from KR) and the character models (also very heavily downgraded in resolution from KR). So what's the problem here? I would venture to say that it's that the original 2d graphics, love them or hate them in their current form DO NOT SCALE WELL. Again, like Storm says, the biggest thing holding back any new client is the old client itself.
Secondly, unequip/re-equip in the EC is not in any way a cheat. It's an Enhanced portion of the User Interface, one of the reasons why it's called the Enhanced Client. If it's Enhanced by the Devs, it by definition is not cheating. If players refuse to avail themselves of these enhancements, that's THEIR OWN FAULT.
Finally, Petra Fyde, ditch XP 64bit. As stated it has a VERY limited support structure. You can get the upgrade to Win7 Home Premium (Really all you'll need as the upper two versions have useless addons) for about $100 or so.
2. Sounds a bit to me like someone had their mind made up before they asked their questions.
I agree with this, that was my first impression as well after: Ive been trying it out and its still a blurry, messy, mismatch of wrongly scaled mobs and items. House deco looks crap. If this really is the best they can do a year or so after releasing beta then we can safely consign EC to the trash can along with the 3d client and the KR client (remember that? ... thats the one that when 95% of us were playing it they would stop supporting the classic client). Hilarious.
Especially when the graphics he derides so heavily are the ORIGINAL UO GRAPHICS The ONLY graphical upgrades that the EC has as of now are the terrain (downgraded from KR) and the character models (also very heavily downgraded in resolution from KR). So what's the problem here? I would venture to say that it's that the original 2d graphics, love them or hate them in their current form DO NOT SCALE WELL. Again, like Storm says, the biggest thing holding back any new client is the old client itself.
Secondly, unequip/re-equip in the EC is not in any way a cheat. It's an Enhanced portion of the User Interface, one of the reasons why it's called the Enhanced Client. If it's Enhanced by the Devs, it by definition is not cheating. If players refuse to avail themselves of these enhancements, that's THEIR OWN FAULT.
Finally, Petra Fyde, ditch XP 64bit. As stated it has a VERY limited support structure. You can get the upgrade to Win7 Home Premium (Really all you'll need as the upper two versions have useless addons) for about $100 or so.
This is not entirely true.
No, you don't want Home Premium 64 Bit, it has some bad limitations. Get Win7 Pro.
Its not cheap, but you need Win 7 PRO 64 Bit. Though, keep your eyes on your PM box.
It's quite a bit worse... When I drop something in the 2D client, it drops where I drop it, with the only exception being that if it hits the bounding box... but you get used to THAT. When I drop something in the EC, it drops at some point down and to the left of the cursor. Yeah, if I'm dropping everything in the lower left corner, everything's fine... but I'm not.
In addition, the 2D client doesn't randomly rearrange the z-order of items when dropped in. The EC does.
These are both glaring bugs that need to be addressed.
Finally, the sensitivity issue is major. When I go to click one book and click the other that's right next to it, that's an issue.
Sure... maybe many folk like the idea of a grid... but until they (1) replace shrinking objects beyond recognition with some sort of icon-based system (or use the objects themselves at 100% size and simply crop them to a recognizable space), and (2) make scrollbars a bit more responsive, there's no bloody way I'm moving to "squint and pray" backpacks.
...
Actually, in this case, the thing holding back the EC are things that make absolutely no sense from a design standpoint. I mean, let's look at the KR graphics (please save waving the banana tree around)... They neither met the look nor spirit of Ultima Online. Many of them were huge, detail-less blobs. When there's more detail in a 2D graphic than one in the EC, that's a problem.
So yes, because of a great deal of outcry over the horrific replacement graphics that were put in place, they chose instead to use the 2D graphics, which as you (and many others) point out, don't scale so well.
The question that plagues me is this: They paid someone to redo all of the graphics in the first place... and someone else signed off on that horrific result. Why didn't they instead take the time to recreate the existing 2D graphics? I don't necessarily mean creatures, but the simple tile artwork. They would then have hi-quality, hi-resolution artwork to work with.
But then that brings us to the next issue with the enhanced client... they HAD to downgrade the quality of the renders on the models so that they could paint them over whatever they're using for mobs. What is wrong with the way they're implementing graphics into this client that caused that?
I mean, frankly, at this point, they should scrap the EC, put toolbars and a better macro tool into the 3D client, and be done with it. It doesn't make sense at all that in this day and age we're still dealing with sprite mobs. Why are they not 3D models? The argument that there's "just too many of them" doesn't make any sense. I run around in WoW with more active 3D models and particle effects than you'd find standing in Luna, and don't come to a screeching halt... they should be able to do this. Why can't they?
Look... I was an early supporter of both KR and the EC... but we're four years out from the development of a new client, and the EC is the best we've got? I'm not impressed overall with the issues that continue to plague it, and it's not moving forward fast enough, IMO.
All this said, I'm TRYING to get used to the thing... but certain things just bother me way too much to switch.
I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, but switching to Windows 7 would be a wise choice. They did a lot of things right with Windows 7. However, if you are just buying it for a home computer the "Pro" version would be a waste of money.
There are advantages in using the EC, without a doubt, but they were put there intentionally, and calling them a cheat is ridiculous. The devs have put a lot of effort into the EC and if everyone were to switch to the EC it would make their jobs easier, so it is entirely understandable that they would try to create some incentives for doing so.
But one can never underestimate the human tendency to hold on to the familiar regardless of the advantages of letting it go.
And when you look at the screen shots, the KR client actually had a lot going for it. Yes it looked different, but it actually looked pretty good, a lot better than the EC in my opinion, and better than the CC as well. However, that is water under the bridge now.
Thats rubbish. Especially coming from XP 64 Bit, the home edition is the version that is a waste of money. The pro version is the best and the fastest of them all. (unless you specifically need a feature of Ultimate)
I said it legitimized cheating, I didn't say it *IS* a cheat now. It gives a major unfair advantage and several features that were once considered cheats.
Perhaps an incentive would be making the EC less of a pile of dung.
So if someone said you and others could get a Ferrari cheap, but it would come with giant pink dildo, which you can't remove and smells of dead people inside, which you can't remove either. Would you take it just because it has advantages over regular cars?
CC>KR>EC