[Bushido] Dropping Bushido on Sampire?

[silent]

Ok, how different would the damage output be on these two (partial) templates? I'm considering dropping bush as I only use diamond maces which is one handed and use a shield. All other variables aside (potions, evasion, etc) just focus on damage output. All else equal on the templates SSI, DCI, Stam, DI.

According to Stratics 35% chance to parry with shield
(maxing out HCI due to no LS)
120 Mace
120 Parrying
120 Tactics
120 Anatomy
100 Necro
70 Chiv

According to Stratics 22% chance to parry using one handed weapon
(maybe 10 HCI, but spamming LS and using Honor for more DI)
120 Mace
100 Bushido
100 Tactics
100 Necro
85 Anat
75 Parry
70 Chiv

 

[Farsight]

Ask yourself this, if you drop bushido and therefore can not use honor to increase your damage output, how will you reach the 300% damage level against things which have no slayer vulnerability (Mondain's Legacy peerless, for example)? I get 100% from items, 50% from enemy of one and then I get stuck trying to squeeze out more damage (well... 10% from divine fury, I believe). The extra 100% damage from perfection helps a lot.

If you don't plan on doing paroxy or Dread Horn, then go ahead and drop bushido.

With regards to your second template, remember that 40% parry (120 bushido/120 parry/2 handed weapon) leads to about 8-12% difference in how much you are hit in most fights (my own experiments were with the Dread Horn and Paroxysmus, as they are the easiest to solo with a vamp-form character). 22% parry would be about half as effective, which to me isn't worth it (other opinions may vary).

 

[silent]

Wouldn't having anatomy and tactics maxed out bring you higher than the 150 (EOO and DI)?

 

[Obsidian]

I've thought about the same thing. I think it could be done IF (and only if) you can use slayer weapons to still hit your 300% damage cap. To me, the biggest thing you loose without bushido is perfection. This has a dramatic impact on your damage output (and thus your life, stamina, and mana leeches).

The other thing to consider is your loss of critical hits (approx 1 in 5 or 6) with lightning strike and the max HCI on these hits. If you are running 45 HCI on your template with HLD (Mace & Shield glasses) then you will probably be ok. I run a sampire with 40 LMC and max weapon specials mana reduction and I can chain usually 3 or 4 AIs in a row before having to use LS for a hit or two and then back to AI chaining. That depends on your opponent and how much mana you leech. Without bushido, you could still use AIs, but you wouldn't be able to use LS. Usually some of my LS hits are crit hits so I can keep up the high damage output.

You would get the benefit of using a shield. There are some nice ones out there. On the opposite site, you have just negated your ability to use 2H weapons. You said you were a macer so that's probably not a big deal with your weapon selections. For swords in particular, that would be a deal breaker for me. My primary sampire is a macer and I use diamond maces, war axes (for AI), and black staffs (for whirlwind) almost exclusively.

The other things I use bushido for with my sampire are evasion and confidence. Those help me when I start to get into a bind. Of course, if you are running spirit speak you could just cast curse weapon and have added life leech to keep you alive. You would just have to be conservative with its use to keep your Karma high.

You're going to loose some versatility without perfection and have to haul a deep bag of slayer weapons, but I think it could be done to challenge a specific monster or places where all of the monsters are vulnerable to the same slayer. Oaks, the Tokuno Sleeping Dragon champ, and some of the UOML dungeons will probably be a bad idea due to the mixing of monster types.

-OBSIDIAN-

P.S. You would no longer have a "SAMpire" but then a "Vampire" dexxer. That actually sounds better to me.

 

[silent]

I'm just attached to healing, if I felt comfortable dropping it I'd be fine.

 

[Garm The Green]

You mean a valadin?

How's about when servers go down tonight, jump on test and try it out...?

 

[Garm The Green]

Ask yourself this, how will you reach the 300% damage level? I get 100% from items, 50% from enemy of one and then I get stuck trying to squeeze out more damage (well... 10% from divine fury, I believe). The extra 100% damage from perfection helps a lot.

Just a little FYI, SM has found that DI from items doesn't factor into the 300% cap.
300% is from spells/slayers/honour only. so with EoO, divine, 100% perfection you've got "only" 160%....eek! room for another 40% perhaps?

It's on the thread about AI/LS i believe....

 

[slaveone]

I'm just attached to healing, if I felt comfortable dropping it I'd be fine.

Dude originally i felt the same way about healing. Thing is if you setup your sampire right you don't need healing in fact you find that healing is actually lousy compared to vamp life leech. Plus you always have Close Wounds (Chiv), Confidence (Bush), and Healing pots if your going with a 1 handed weapon plus every hit you make is a life leech. Best thing to do is also roll with a whirlwind weapon one hit on a bunch of foes with that will usually fill up all your mana/health/stam so healing really becomes redundant. If you dropped bushido you wouldn't be a sampire anyway cause that is a Samuari Vampire. Your not a Samurai without Bushido. Would i recommend dropping bushido? NO WAY take it to 120! If anything drop anatomy it's really not needed.

 

[Garm The Green]

Wouldn't having anatomy and tactics maxed out bring you higher than the 150 (EOO and DI)?

No, Anat, Tact, Lumberjack, STR and DI are applied seprately:

FORMULAS:
Tactics Damage Bonus% = Tactics ÷ 1.6 (Add 6.25% if Tactics >= 100)
Anatomy Damage Bonus% = (Anatomy ÷ 2) + 5%
Lumberjack Damage Bonus% = Lumberjack ÷ 5 (Add 10% if Lumberjacking >= 100)
Strength Damage Bonus% = Strength * 0.3 (Add 5% if Strength >= 100)
Final Damage Bonus% = Tactics Bonus + Anatomy Bonus + Lumber Bonus + Strangth Bonus + Damage Increase Items*
Final Damage = Base Damage + (Base Damage * Final Damage Bonus%)
* Damage Increase is capped at 100%.

http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/combat.php

Note - I'm a little bit unsure of the anat formulas accuracy...

 

[Garm The Green]

I'm just attached to healing, if I felt comfortable dropping it I'd be fine.

Dude originally i felt the same way about healing. Thing is if you setup your sampire right you don't need healing in fact you find that healing is actually lousy compared to vamp life leech. Plus you always have Close Wounds (Chiv), Confidence (Bush), and Healing pots if your going with a 1 handed weapon plus every hit you make is a life leech.

+1
Me too. But, it's too slow and against bosses/champs useless as all it will do is cure poison before you resist it, which you can leech through anyways. The only thing it is nice for is crosshealing.

Don't get me wrong I'd love to have it, but I'm loving having evasion more...

And yeah, take bushi to 115-120 to get the most out of it...

 

[Stupid Miner]

Wouldn't having anatomy and tactics maxed out bring you higher than the 150 (EOO and DI)?

Not even close.
In fact 120 Anat and Tactics instead of GM wouldnt even replace EoO let alone DI as well.

And, the difference between Perfection and no Perfection on a creature without a slayer is
1.5x damage vs 2.5x damage

The item property "damage increase" doesn't interact with the 300% damage cap.
Similarly the "damage modifier" property on quivers doesn't interact with the caps of either of those two.

 

[ReaperNI]

dropping bush on a sampire would be having a necro/warrior no longer having the samuri part of it. id run 120 bush for evasions alone . TYR

 

[NickyDishes]

I'm just attached to healing, if I felt comfortable dropping it I'd be fine.

dude i was the same way.......i swore on healing forever was the thing to have on a sampire........wrong.....i even was so dumb to have 70 tactics 90 anatomy and wore midnight bracers to make up for the skill i needed.....healing doesnt do a single thing in the long run but cure poison which your gonna leech thru 100% of the time anyway.....trust me drop the healing....i held onto it lastly cause i never thought i could solo navery without it.....guess what i dropped healing and midnight bracers, raised tactics and anatomy from 90s to 100s, and went and destroyed navery faster than i ever had.....ever since ive dropped healing my sampire is so much more badazz...plus u get 2 second bonus to evasion!

 

[Obsidian]

dude i was the same way.......i swore on healing forever was the thing to have on a sampire........wrong.....i even was so dumb to have 70 tactics 90 anatomy and wore midnight bracers to make up for the skill i needed.....healing doesnt do a single thing in the long run but cure poison which your gonna leech thru 100% of the time anyway.....trust me drop the healing....i held onto it lastly cause i never thought i could solo navery without it.....guess what i dropped healing and midnight bracers, raised tactics and anatomy from 90s to 100s, and went and destroyed navery faster than i ever had.....ever since ive dropped healing my sampire is so much more badazz...plus u get 2 second bonus to evasion!

I agree. In fact, that is why I never dropped parry for healing. Instead I maximized my suit and weapons to get the most HCI, HLD, and LMC I could (up to each respective max). Navrey goes down way faster now with chained AIs with occassional LS to regain mana.

There are times to go with resist or SS on the template. You can swap those with anatomy or parrying as needed. It's not as clean as one of those skills is usually 120 while others are 100, but it can be done.

-OBSIDIAN-

 

[silent]

I'm going to give it a try. I had tried it once before but I think I was only running 100 bush and using a diamond mace, I died more than with healing. I stoned some skills around and I am beefing up my bush, that didn't come out right. I'm also switching to an ornate with 30ssi and have another 15ssi on my harness. I need to tweak some armor so it will be a little while before i can go up against anything bigger than miasma for now.

 

[Yen Sid]

I am beefing up my bush.

Best quote ever!! Going in my sig lol.

 

[silent]

Best quote ever!! Going in my sig lol.

Hehe,

 

[NickyDishes]

I'm going to give it a try. I had tried it once before but I think I was only running 100 bush and using a diamond mace, I died more than with healing. I stoned some skills around and I am beefing up my bush, that didn't come out right. I'm also switching to an ornate with 30ssi and have another 15ssi on my harness. I need to tweak some armor so it will be a little while before i can go up against anything bigger than miasma for now.

u might wanna get the hang of it with a faster weapon at first like a radiant scimmy or a diamond mace with 25 or 30 ssi.

 

[Ender]

Why choose? Run

120 weapon skill
120 bushido
120 parry
99 necro
90 tactics
90 anatomy
90 healing
60 chiv

 

[silent]

Why choose? Run

120 weapon skill
120 bushido
120 parry
99 necro
90 tactics
90 anatomy
90 healing
60 chiv

I'd love to, but that adds up to 789 skill points.

 

[Ender]

I'd love to, but that adds up to 789 skill points.

Yeah I know, I use midnight bracers and lots of skill points on jewelry. I'm a little lower on some mods than I'd like to be, but I also have an extra skill, so it's a fair trade depending on what I'm doing.

Other times I switch back to a more normal template though.

 

[Old Man of UO]

Why choose? Run

120 weapon skill
120 bushido
120 parry
99 necro
90 tactics
90 anatomy
90 healing
60 chiv

You lose about 45% skill damage bonus with those skills, versus having Anatomy and Tactics at 120.

Anatomy: (120-90)/2 +5% GM bonus = 20%
Tactics: (120-90)/1.6 +6.25% GM bonus = 25%

 

[NickyDishes]

You lose about 45% skill damage bonus with those skills, versus having Anatomy and Tactics at 120.

Anatomy: (120-90)/2 +5% GM bonus = 20%
Tactics: (120-90)/1.6 +6.25% GM bonus = 25%

i agree a sampire should either have gm or higher on both tact and anat......why sacrifice damage for healing skill?........healing is not needed trust me i ran with it for 2 years on my sampire and im so glad i got rid of it.....it was dead weight

 

[Garm The Green]

I agree, though healing can be good for PVP... where leeching is less reliable.

 

[Nyses]

Healing is a waste of skill points on most Sampires. If you are relying on healing on your Sampire, you are not playing it right. I know Connor swore by healing, but it really depends on wether you want to kill stuff slow and safe, or like a Hurricane on Speed. Up to you.

Sampires and PvP, it should really only be to defend your spawn, otherwise, go get on a PvP char.

Use the right tool for the job. I love my Sampires, but I do NOT try and use them for everything.

And, like was stated earlier, no Bushido = no Sampire. You become a Vampire Dexer.