[Arms Lore] Does arms lore affect the imbuing weight of items ?

[popps]

I understand that, crafting exceptional items with Arms Lore, increases the resists on armor and the damage increase on weapons.

Now, on weapons, it is possible to remove the DI with a Whetstone of Enervation.

What I do not understand, is whether the 5% additional DI that Weapons are crafted with, having GM Arms Lore (from 35% to 40%), still is computed within that given Weapon imbuing weight (thus subtracting to the remaining imbuing weight which remains as available to be allocated for other properties), or, whether, actually, having Arms Lore "increases" the imbuing weight for that given item to "make room" for those extra points of resistances or DI.

Because, in such a case, it could become more beneficial to craft a Weapon with GM Arms Lore, benefit from an imbuing weight raise, and then remove the 40% DI with a Whetstone, so as to then have more imbuing weight to allocate for the properties wanted.

Otherwise, considering how, for Armor, people just go with Legendaries, hardly for crafted armor (saved a few exceptions for Luck suits), and for Weapons which are crafted, nowadays that people has often 100% DI on the suit, the DI crafted on the weapon gets usually removed, I do not see why one would want to have Arms Lore when crafting anything....

So, my question is, is it really worth making stuff with GM Arms Lore because the crafted items get an imbuing weight increase ?

 

[gwen]

1. on weapon you can reimbue DI to any value from 2 to 50 . Arms lore have nothing to do with weight. Weapon is either Exceptional or not. Only this affects imbuing capacity.
2. On Armor it adds resists. So if you crafting armor you better have it GM .

 

[Anon McDougle]

I have been thinking about dropping arms lore for a long time i feel it's useless with the way we craft today

 

[gwen]

I have been thinking about dropping arms lore for a long time i feel it's useless with the way we craft today

+5 resist per piece on reforged luck suit is important. Or on studded armor set for low level spawns.

 

[popps]

+5 resist per piece on reforged luck suit is important. Or on studded armor set for low level spawns.

But, if those +5 resists for crafting with GM Arms Lore do not increase the imbuing weight as I understand you are saying, then yes, one will have an extra +5 resist points on a piece reforged for Luck but this will "eat into" the imbuing weight remaining for other properties that need to get imbued....

What I am trying to say is, that those +5% extra resistance points will have a cost... less "room" to then imbue on that piece the other properties...

Did I understand it as right ?

If so, then the utility of GM Arms Lore when crafting pieces seems a lot less usefull.....

 

[gwen]

But, if those +5 resists for crafting with GM Arms Lore do not increase the imbuing weight as I understand you are saying, then yes, one will have an extra +5 resist points on a piece reforged for Luck but this will "eat into" the imbuing weight remaining for other properties that need to get imbued....

What I am trying to say is, that those +5% extra resistance points will have a cost... less "room" to then imbue on that piece the other properties...

Did I understand it as right ?

If so, then the utility of GM Arms Lore when crafting pieces seems a lot less usefull.....

If after reforging armor one or more of resist will go over some cap then it will "eat" one imbuing slot but you will still be able to imbue in higher. Depending on results you either leave it and use it or unravel. All can be checked in imbuing menu.
If you have no plans to do suits , only weapon and without some weird builds where you need it clean and packed with whatever you want to pack there . Like crafting or reforging with valorite runic for whatever silly purposes , then arms lore is useless for you.
My crafter on ATL have it because she have room for it. On another shard it is stoned and replaced with fletching. Other 2shards where I have blacksmith have no arms lore at all, they just reforge weapon . In most cases it is vendor weapon.

 

[dvv]

This thread just helped me realize arms lore isn’t needed in my crafter so thanks for that

I only make weapons, so no use. Always good to free up skill points.

 

[TirNaNo'g]

But, if those +5 resists for crafting with GM Arms Lore do not increase the imbuing weight as I understand you are saying, then yes, one will have an extra +5 resist points on a piece reforged for Luck but this will "eat into" the imbuing weight remaining for other properties that need to get imbued....

What I am trying to say is, that those +5% extra resistance points will have a cost... less "room" to then imbue on that piece the other properties...

Did I understand it as right ?

If so, then the utility of GM Arms Lore when crafting pieces seems a lot less usefull.....

The extra 5 points of resist added by arms lore do not count against the imbuing weight. They are free points. Resists added during runic reforging add to the imbuing weight of the item however as it's considered a property being added.

 

[Basara]

Similarly, the 15+(0 to 5 for Arms Lore) randomly assigned points don't count for imbuing on resists that are unchanged by reforging (definitely), and I believe don't count toward weight on those changed by reforging, unless you try to change the value of that resist with imbuing (as imbuing wipes the Lore bonus as part of the imbue.

 

[popps]

Similarly, the 15+(0 to 5 for Arms Lore) randomly assigned points don't count for imbuing on resists that are unchanged by reforging (definitely), and I believe don't count toward weight on those changed by reforging, unless you try to change the value of that resist with imbuing (as imbuing wipes the Lore bonus as part of the imbue.

Thus, and please correct me if I understood it as wrong, do I understand it as correct that, for an item that the crafter is going to reforge, imbue and, perhaps, also enhance, it is totally pointless to craft it with 100.0 Arms Lore since it adds nothing of any value to the item, considering the changes that will then be done through reforging, imbuing and possibly enhancing?

Basically, Arms Lore is a "useless" skill ?

 

[gwen]

Thus, and please correct me if I understood it as wrong, do I understand it as correct that, for an item that the crafter is going to reforge, imbue and, perhaps, also enhance, it is totally pointless to craft it with 100.0 Arms Lore since it adds nothing of any value to the item, considering the changes that will then be done through reforging, imbuing and possibly enhancing?

Basically, Arms Lore is a "useless" skill ?

it adds +5 resists when GM. useless or useful - you decide yourself for your crafter.

 

[popps]

it adds +5 resists when GM. useless or useful - you decide yourself for your crafter.

But if the imbuing weight stays the same, and one can raise those resists anyways, with imbuing or enhancing, for example, then what is the point of using Arms Lore ?

I do not understand that "you decide yourself for your crafter "...

It is not a personal thing, to my understanding, but,rather, it either "adds" something usefull to the item or it doesn't.... and this applies to any and all crafters, not just to some yes and others not....

 

[Pawain]

But if the imbuing weight stays the same, and one can raise those resists anyways, with imbuing or enhancing, for example, then what is the point of using Arms Lore ?

I do not understand that "you decide yourself for your crafter "...

It is not a personal thing, to my understanding, but,rather, it either "adds" something usefull to the item or it doesn't.... and this applies to any and all crafters, not just to some yes and others not....

You know you can only put up to 5 things on armor. So if you replace a value that arms lore gave you for free, then that is 1 thing of the 5.

They are saying Arms Lore is not needed for weapons if you have 100 DI without a weapon. It is useful for armor. Try making a luck suit that starts with 30 less resistance than one with Arms Lore.

It is useful for my weapons, I put Stats on my suit instead of DI. Most of my guys need 35 DI on their weapons. I don't always have a Cameo on so you have to compensate for that 20DI.

You should know this, you have been working on the luck suit for years. Is it finished yet?

And no, every toon can need different things.

For my suits and weapons, I would be an idiot not to have the extras for free.

 

[gwen]

But if the imbuing weight stays the same, and one can raise those resists anyways, with imbuing or enhancing, for example, then what is the point of using Arms Lore ?

I do not understand that "you decide yourself for your crafter "...

It is not a personal thing, to my understanding, but,rather, it either "adds" something usefull to the item or it doesn't.... and this applies to any and all crafters, not just to some yes and others not....

per piece:
Vendor bought/crafted non-ex armor 0 imbuing weight
Exceptional elf crafted +15 resists and 0 imbuing weight (but bigger imbuing capacity)
Exceptional with GM arms lore crafted armor +20 resists (capacity same as exceptional), 0 imbuing weight.
Do your math: is 20 better than 15? It is not rocket science.

 

[Pawain]

It is not rocket science.

It is when you are too lazy to do research, but instead you want to write a redundant rebuttal with that time.

 

[Basara]

Thus, and please correct me if I understood it as wrong, do I understand it as correct that, for an item that the crafter is going to reforge, imbue and, perhaps, also enhance, it is totally pointless to craft it with 100.0 Arms Lore since it adds nothing of any value to the item, considering the changes that will then be done through reforging, imbuing and possibly enhancing?

Basically, Arms Lore is a "useless" skill ?

No. In fact it's the exact opposite.

Any piece that you aren't going to imbue resists on, you WANT Arms Lore bonus on your armor. The same is true for any resist that isn't going to be changed, on a piece that will have one resist changed on.

For a leather-based luck suit, the enhancement with spined will take any suit of 6 crafted pieces to 70+, so you want as few points as possible in physical, while also having one other resist on each item) also very low in bonus points, so that once the reforges are done, you can finish off the resists with 6-8 resist imbues spread across the 6 items.

Not having those extra 30 points means you'll need 8-10 resist imbues to get to all 70s instead, losing 2 additional imbue slots.

 

[popps]

But if the imbuing weight stays the same, and one can raise those resists anyways, with imbuing or enhancing, for example, then what is the point of using Arms Lore ?

I do not understand that "you decide yourself for your crafter "...

It is not a personal thing, to my understanding, but either it "adds" something usefull or it doesn't.... and this applies to any and all crafters, not just to some yes and others not....

per piece:
Vendor bought/crafted non-ex armor 0 imbuing weight
Exceptional elf crafted +15 resists and 0 imbuing weight (but bigger imbuing capacity)
Exceptional with GM arms lore crafted armor +20 resists (capacity same as exceptional), 0 imbuing weight.
Do your math: is 20 better than 15? It is not rocket science.

@gwen

Yes, 20 is better then 15 but also a bigger imbuing capacity that comes along with the +15 for elves crafted items is nice to have...

Speaking about this, I checked an imbuing calculator for Leaf, Hide and Woodland which are restricted to elves, and all of the armor pieces (exceptional selected) come with an imbuing weight of 500 which is the same imbuing weight that human armor has.

So, I do not understand where this bigger imbuing capacity for elves armor is....

Can you please be more specific ?

Thanks.

 

[popps]

No. In fact it's the exact opposite.

Any piece that you aren't going to imbue resists on, you WANT Arms Lore bonus on your armor. The same is true for any resist that isn't going to be changed, on a piece that will have one resist changed on.

For a leather-based luck suit, the enhancement with spined will take any suit of 6 crafted pieces to 70+, so you want as few points as possible in physical, while also having one other resist on each item) also very low in bonus points, so that once the reforges are done, you can finish off the resists with 6-8 resist imbues spread across the 6 items.

Not having those extra 30 points means you'll need 8-10 resist imbues to get to all 70s instead, losing 2 additional imbue slots.

@Basara

OK, but, if I understand it correctly, also the extra resists which Arms Lore adds to exceptionally crafted pieces, counts as 1 property for imbuing....

Therefore, whether one adds extra resistances with Arms Lore and exceptionally crafter OR through imbuing, it still counts in both cases as 1 imbuing property...

It is not like one crafts a GM Arms Lore exceptional piece with extra resistance and then can "also" add 5 imbuing properties... the extra properties that can be added, if I understood correctly, is 4, because 1 was already taken by the extra resistances that were added with GM Arms Lore and exceptionally crafted....

This is why I fail to see the advantage to use GM Arms Lore.... because, whether one uses GM Arms Lore or Imbuing, it still counts in both cases as 1 imbuing property....

That is, with GM Arms Lore exceptionallycrafted, one does not get anything "extra" as compared to imbuing....

Or did I understand it all wrong ?

 

[gwen]

@gwen

Yes, 20 is better then 15 but also a bigger imbuing capacity that comes along with the +15 for elves crafted items is nice to have...

Speaking about this, I checked an imbuing calculator for Leaf, Hide and Woodland which are restricted to elves, and all of the armor pieces (exceptional selected) come with an imbuing weight of 500 which is the same imbuing weight that human armor has.

So, I do not understand where this bigger imbuing capacity for elves armor is....

Can you please be more specific ?

Thanks.

Elf and gargoyle have no JOAT so don't have +20 in each skill as human do. It is not about armor for whom, it is about race of a crafter.

 

[gwen]

@Basara

OK, but, if I understand it correctly,

No you understand it incorrectly.

Or did I understand it all wrong ?

Yes, you are wrong


I will repeat what I wrote before to you :
If after reforging armor one or more of resist will go over some cap then it will "eat" one imbuing slot but you will still be able to imbue it higher. Depending on results you either leave it and use it or unravel. All can be checked in imbuing menu.

Looks like you decided that arms lore is useless for you and searching for some proof. You will not get it in this thread.

 

[Pawain]

@Basara

OK, but, if I understand it correctly, also the extra resists which Arms Lore adds to exceptionally crafted pieces, counts as 1 property for imbuing....

Therefore, whether one adds extra resistances with Arms Lore and exceptionally crafter OR through imbuing, it still counts in both cases as 1 imbuing property...

It is not like one crafts a GM Arms Lore exceptional piece with extra resistance and then can "also" add 5 imbuing properties... the extra properties that can be added, if I understood correctly, is 4, because 1 was already taken by the extra resistances that were added with GM Arms Lore and exceptionally crafted....

This is why I fail to see the advantage to use GM Arms Lore.... because, whether one uses GM Arms Lore or Imbuing, it still counts in both cases as 1 imbuing property....

That is, with GM Arms Lore exceptionallycrafted, one does not get anything "extra" as compared to imbuing....

Or did I understand it all wrong ?

Do you see an option on the imbuing calculator that says, I used arms lore?

Those starting extra resists are free.