Discussion on trade deal types

[Hoffs]

Leaving aside the question of the expense of running the trade deals, it appears that most people I have spoken to feel that only the SSI, FC and SDI deals are worth running (that is, you are far better using one of those rather than any other).

Does anyone disagree with this?

Do you know of any towns that run any of the other deals?

How do you think some of the other deals could be improved to make them a viable alternative?

Can you think of any different deals that could be introduced?

For reference, here are the currently available types:

• Guild of Arcane Arts: +5% Spell Damage Increase
• Society of Clothiers: +1% Resist bump to all resists
• Bardic Collegium: +1 Faster Casting
• Order of Engineers: +3 Dexterity Bonus
• Guild of Healers: 5% Bandage Healing Bonus
• Maritime Guild: +2 Hit Point Regeneration
• Merchant’s Association: +2 Mana Regeneration
• Mining Cooperative: +3 Strength Bonus
• League of Rangers: +3 Intelligence Bonus
• Guild of Assassins: +5% Swing Speed Increase
• Warrior’s Guild: +5% Hit Chance Increase

 

[Tazar]

Merchant's Association - 5% price reduction from NPC Vendors.
Trainer's guild - 5% higher chance of a skill gain (Sorry Siege - this doesn't really help ROT).

 

[Bianca_CoD]

I feel the buffs of SSI, FC and SDI that are so popular should be moved to the PvP system (not my idea, someone else suggested it, but I agree). Like the controlling Virtue/Vice would have access to a "choice" of those three buffs in return for silver/gold/points (whatever).

Then what I would like to see the buffs be is actually reference the trade they are associated with for skill gains or other bonuses, for example:

• Guild of Arcane Arts: +5% Increase to Arcane Skill Gains (Magery, Necromancy, Spellweaving, Mysticism, Resisting Spells)
• Society of Clothiers: +5% Increase to Tailoring Skill Gains and %5 Increase to Skinning Resources
• Bardic Collegium: +5% Increase to Bardic Skill Gains (Musicianship, Peacemaking, Provocation, Discordance)
• Order of Engineers: +5% Increase to Tinkering, Carpentry, Lumberjacking, Alchemy, & Imbuing Skill Gains as well as %5 Increase to Wood Resources
• Guild of Healers: 5% Increase to Healing, Veterinary, & Anatomy Skill Gains
• Maritime Guild: +1 Increase to Boating Speed as well as a %5 Reduction in Repair Costs
• Merchant’s Association: +%5 Reduction to Vendor Fees
• Mining Cooperative: +5% Increase in Mining, Blacksmithing, & Arms Lore Skill Gains as well as %5 Increase to Ore Resources
• League of Rangers: +5% Increase to Archery & Tactics Skill Gains
• Guild of Assassins: +5% Increase to Assassin Skill Gains (Stealth, Hiding, Stealing, Snooping)
• Warrior’s Guild: +5% Increase to Melee & Tactics Skill Gains (Swordsmanship, Mace Fighting, Fencing, Throwing, Wrestling)

Some that I would add myself:

• Guild of Tokonuse Arts: +5% Increase to Melee Arcane Skill Gains (Chivalry, Ninjitsu, Bushido)
• Tamer's of Sosaria Guild: +5% Increase to Animal Taming and Animal Lore Skill Gains

I also feel it would be nice to have a "chat system" for each of the cities that is hard pressed into the game's code that is independent from the current chat channels. If you are a citizen of Minoc, you should automatically be added to "Minoc Chat" but you should also be able to move from General Chat etc.

~ Sue.

 

[Tina Small]

Hoffs, this is definitely out of date now, but I did make notes on the trade deals that had been selected in the first couple of elections in a Google spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj2lpjetLFwwdHZscmxfSHQySkJSZlF6aEN5cGo4VEE&usp=sharing ). I stopped keeping track of the information, however, when Petra set up the election results pages on Stratics. There were a few cities on some shards back in September and last summer that seemed to be using some of the other trade deals. Could be some of those same governors, if reelected, are still keeping those trade deals active. However, the three you mentioned definitely seem most popular.

 

[DJAd]

I signed up to a city last month. I was more shocked that when I died I had to return to the city stone to re-activate the buff. Quite inconvenient when your out in the lost lands doing a spawn.

 

[Merus]

I signed up to a city last month. I was more shocked that when I died I had to return to the city stone to re-activate the buff. Quite inconvenient when your out in the lost lands doing a spawn.

I have never noticed mine wearing off when I die. Perhaps I just wasn't paying close enough attention. I usually renew mine the day of our EM events which do tend to provide death robes, but I could swear it is still active when we get to the boss.

Perhaps you were spawning when your 24 hours ran out?

 

[Smoot]

its just like anything else in the game. Like arties. whoever designs this stuff must not play, because consistently a solid two thirds of anything new in the game is totally worthless or impractical compared to other options.

So yeah. only the 3 you listed are really useful. the warriors guild 5%hci is arguable for very tight templates, but usually those templates get more bang out of fc1 or ssi anyway.

 

[Dot_Warner]

I wouldn't remove any of the buffs, nor try to split out any of the ones that PvPers might prefer. None of the buffs are exclusive to PvP, as they easily pertain to PvM as well. Hopefully, if Virtue vs Vice ever sees the light of day, it will include buffs tailored more to Fel.

Honestly, the buffs are rather pathetic. They *should* be a draw for players to be involved with a city, but they aren't. What we have now is a free, 24-hour fish pie...meh. Double the buffs to make them more attractive while giving the cities better ways to fund the deals. Each use of the deal should cost 10K, with those funds going directly into the city treasury.

The idea of increased skill gains I like, though they should be passive, always-on bonuses tied to actual in-city locations. Go to the tailors and you receive a bonus to tailoring gains, perhaps the chance at say +5 to a random resist when crafting there. Same for the other shops. We know location based code exists for the repair deeds, so this shouldn't be very difficult to implement. To utilize the passive gains you should need to be at least respected in the city. Each city could also have a bonus unique to it, say Vesper gets increased fishing gains, New Magincia gets a boost to masonry success, Minoc to tinkering or blacksmithy exceptional rates... If this could bring people back to the cities, even for a few minutes, it's a GOOD thing!

 

[Hoffs]

Thanks for the link, Tina. That seems to indicate that, initially anyway, the MR and HCI bonus were considered reasonable, at least on the Eastern shards, but the SDI/FC/SSI ones were indeed king.

I really don't want to get into the funding of the trade deals in this thread; that is being/has been covered elsewhere. There are three things I would like to discuss here:

a) How many of the existing trade deals could be made more appealing.
b) What additional trade deals could be brought in, including non-combat ones.
c) Giving a more appropriate name to some of the deals.

As to the existing deals, what sort of values would make people seriously consider changing to those?

Society of Clothiers: Currently +1% Resist bump to all resists. What would this need to be? +5%?

Stat buffing deals: Currently at +3 each. What is needed? +5? +10? +15? +20?

Guild of Healers: Currently 5% bandage healing. Should it be +10%? Higher? Could too high a value lead to some imbalance for the healing skill?

Warriors Guild: Currently +5% HCI. How about +10%? Would that be sufficient for people to consider taking it in place of the +5 SSI?

Merchant's Association: +2 Mana regen at the moment. Not bad, but would need to be more to compete with FC and SDI. Would +3 or +4 be any good?

Maritime Guild: Currently +2 HP regen. What would this need to be? +5? Higher?

 

[Thom]

I feel that most of the deals could use at least a double what they offer atm to approach useful. Either that or add something else to them. Such as warrior's guild is currently 5 hci. It could go to either 10 hci or maybe 5 each of hci and dci. Merchants.. 4 Mr or maybe keep it at 2 and add some mana increase. The other less used deals could get the same type of increases to make them more useful.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Tapatalk

 

[cazador]

The system is for role playing...role play yourself having more stats..no need for a "real" buff.

I'm obviously being sarcastic :/ all the buffs except for the 3 are pretty useless as Hoffs has stated..

The problem with making individual increased skill % gain is that it's too broad..and would still be used very limited compared to say FC1..

The star buffs need to be atleast +10 to be useful, but I would even go out on a limb and say merge them together and get +10 of all stats with that specific buff..then people might use it..

+1 resist is completely and utterly useless.. Period! I don't know what anyone says lol..change it to +5 to elemental resist cap

Again add HPR/mr to one and go with 3MR/3HPR/4Stam Regen..

Now even after this would be done. Faster casting is still king, but atleast the become more useful to even a few people instead of absolutely no one. Unless of course they are "role playing"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[startle]

... I really don't want to get into the funding of the trade deals in this thread; that is being/has been covered elsewhere.

I agree with you Hoffs in not wanting this to devolve into a diatribe of complaints regarding the funding costs of the trade deals, but at the current rates they could certainly use more appealing buffs. It's easy to see why so many cities no longer offer trade deals, as most citizens feel that the buffs are insufficient to constantly contribute millions to the funds... Having said that:

There are three things I would like to discuss here:

a) How many of the existing trade deals could be made more appealing.
b) What additional trade deals could be brought in, including non-combat ones.
c) Giving a more appropriate name to some of the deals.

As to the existing deals, what sort of values would make people seriously consider changing to those?

Society of Clothiers: Currently +1% Resist bump to all resists. What would this need to be? +5%?
Since armor currently takes quite a bit of waste to combine pieces to get a suit anywhere even close to 70's - and since this would benefit everyone equally - I could get behind a pricey trade deal that would give something closer to 40% - which would make the starting pieces much less wasteful...

Stat buffing deals: Currently at +3 each. What is needed? +5? +10? +15? +20?
My first thought was that much care would be needed here, but once again - since everyone would benefit equally - I think that number could go to 10% easy...

Guild of Healers: Currently 5% bandage healing. Should it be +10%? Higher? Could too high a value lead to some imbalance for the healing skill?
Here's where only one or two skills get a boost, so not all benefit equally... I'd remove this one, personally...

Warriors Guild: Currently +5% HCI. How about +10%? Would that be sufficient for people to consider taking it in place of the +5 SSI?
This has to balance with the caster's city buff, but I'd refer someone with more expertise in combat templates to respond to tradeoffs between HCI and SSI....

Merchant's Association: +2 Mana regen at the moment. Not bad, but would need to be more to compete with FC and SDI. Would +3 or +4 be any good?
Increase it in balance with the warrior's buff above. Better yet, i could see them offering a city buff that drastically reduces or removes the penalty from Protection, which would help the many casters who can't afford the 2/6 jewels needed to compensate...

Maritime Guild: Currently +2 HP regen. What would this need to be? +5? Higher?
Just balance it with the increases in MR and HCI...

How about some sort of trade deal that would benefit Fishermen/women? I'm sure there are others...

Oh, and yes - about the names. Are you saying that the name Merchant's Association has nothing to do with Mana regen? Oh dear, you may have something there.......

 

[Smoot]

Guild of healers - any boost to healing as it is now would be pretty useless. the healing boost gives an increase in amount healed. bandages heal more than enough. no ones needs More healing, but faster healing would be useful. Or bonus to skill, like enhanced bandages add 10 skill points to your overall healing skill.
For Guild of Healers to be useful, i would say it would need to add 15 to 20 points to your healing skill. that would open up just enough room on a template for it to be a noteworthy option.

 

[Smoot]

Warriors Guild: Currently +5% HCI. How about +10%? Would that be sufficient for people to consider taking it in place of the +5 SSI?
This has to balance with the caster's city buff, but I'd refer someone with more expertise in combat templates to respond to tradeoffs between HCI and SSI....

swing speed is a very light mod. not comparable in imbue weight to hci at all. however it takes up a slot and is sometimes needed just to be able to use a weapon.

Point is, if your choosing a hit chance buff, most likely your still going to need the ssi somewhere.

i think hci would have to be 15 for it to be useful with the current gear and slot options, so that hci jewel slot could be replaced with ssi.

 

[Hoffs]

Thanks for all the feedback so far. Hopefully more will add their opinions too. Here is a rough summary of what has been suggested so far:

Society of Clothiers: Currently +1% Resist bump to all resists and pretty much completely useless. Would +5% be of use? An increase to resist caps has been suggested instead. Thoughts on that and what the cap increase would need to be?

Stat buffing deals: Currently at +3 each, but would probably need to be at least 10. However, it has been suggested that these three deals could be replaced by a single one that boosts all stats. What do people think of that? And what would the combined buff need to be?

Guild of Healers: Currently 5% bandage healing. Smoot believes that any buff to amount healed would not be of much use and what is needed is faster healing or a bonus to healing skill in the same manner as enhanced bandages. Thoughts?

Warriors Guild (HCI): Would need to be at least 10%, but it has been postulated that it would need to be +15% for most people to consider that in place of the SSI deal. A combined DCI/HCI deal has also been suggested. Thoughts?

Merchant's Association: +2 Mana regen at the moment. It seems +4 would be needed at least. A combined regen buff has also been suggested. What do people think of that? And what would the combined rate be?

Maritime Guild: Currently +2 HP regen. See above.

Keeping to just combat bonuses for now (although feel free to continue suggesting non-combat ones in the meantime), what other deals might be useful, either in addition to what we now have or to replace some?

How about DCI? That may appeal to more people that HCI does currently. What would be needed, +10 or +15?

How about LMC? What value would that need to be?

Are there any other properties that could usefully be used in a trade deal?

 

[Bianca_CoD]

I wouldn't remove any of the buffs, nor try to split out any of the ones that PvPers might prefer. None of the buffs are exclusive to PvP, as they easily pertain to PvM as well. Hopefully, if Virtue vs Vice ever sees the light of day, it will include buffs tailored more to Fel.

The reason I suggest that they are split is to encourage PvM'ers to take some risks and get involved into the PvP system. So putting stat buffs in Fel systems would encourage any that see a value in those buffs to head to Fel for them. I think folks are mistaking a lot of what we say to mean that we're meaning to split players... no. What we want is to see a need for what would be considered "Trammies" to venture out into Felucca for things other than Champ Spawns. There should be more equality in the two facets that promote visits from all types of players to both lands (except Reds unfortunately, which I firmly believe they should get access to Trammel but that's another discussion). To give % to skill gains also gives new players a chance to build loyalty with a city because they are training those skills on a character and its just more in line with the lore behind those trade associations.

Perhaps my idea could serve as the "secondary" buff and players can choose between a stat buff or a skill gain buff?

~ Sue.

 

[FrejaSP]

I would like to make the Governor choose 2 or 3 deals, then a citizen could choose one of the 3 for his char. that way the Governor could make both PvP'ers, crafters and young citizens happy.

As to the existing deals, what sort of values would make people seriously consider changing to those?

Society of Clothiers: Currently +1% Resist bump to all resists. What would this need to be? +5%?, As it is a pain to imbue resist, I would say 5%

Stat buffing deals: Currently at +3 each. What is needed? +5? +10? +15? +20? I would try with 10%

Guild of Healers: Currently 5% bandage healing. Should it be +10%? Higher? Could too high a value lead to some imbalance for the healing skill? As there are HP regen deal, that help all templates, I would remove this one

Warriors Guild: Currently +5% HCI. How about +10%? Would that be sufficient for people to consider taking it in place of the +5 SSI? It sure need to be 10%

Merchant's Association: +2 Mana regen at the moment. Not bad, but would need to be more to compete with FC and SDI. Would +3 or +4 be any good? I would say 5%

Maritime Guild: Currently +2 HP regen. What would this need to be? +5? Higher? I think 5% is fine

I would add:

Crafter Guild: 10% resist bonus to crafted armor made of metal, wood, stone, bones or scales. Hats made of clothes need the bonus too as they do not get materiel bonus. To help the crafter as many of them get burned out as resist are a pain add and at least on Siege, we only see crafted leather suits, this would balance thing a little.

 

[cazador]

I just want an option for auto renew! Would be so much more convienent


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dot_Warner]

What we want is to see a need for what would be considered "Trammies" to venture out into Felucca for things other than Champ Spawns. There should be more equality in the two facets that promote visits from all types of players to both lands

Multiple dev teams have tried and failed at this for over a decade though. Double resources, double fame, more gold, higher drop rates, special drops, etc. None of it has worked in the long run. Why? Because non-con, lose whatever's not insured PvP doesn't interest most people. A marked inequality hasn't drawn most people to Fel, why would a tiny buff? Even if doubled, the buffs aren't that exciting.

Fel isn't going to be incorporated into the governor system, it doesn't make fictional sense.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I would like to make the Governor choose 2 or 3 deals, then a citizen could choose one of the 3 for his char.

This is my favorite idea so far.

Stayin Alive,

BG

 

[Smoot]

Multiple dev teams have tried and failed at this for over a decade though. Double resources, double fame, more gold, higher drop rates, special drops, etc. None of it has worked in the long run. Why? Because non-con, lose whatever's not insured PvP doesn't interest most people. A marked inequality hasn't drawn most people to Fel, why would a tiny buff? Even if doubled, the buffs aren't that exciting.

Fel isn't going to be incorporated into the governor system, it doesn't make fictional sense.

i dunno, i thinks its worked at least a little. the replicas made doing champ spawns more appealing again. i farm my whetstones fel only because tram drop rate is not worth it all. i see scriptors in fel so their definitely there for the resource boost. I farm honor only in fel. it maxes out quick. none of those things involve pvp. yes there is a chance for it, but its stuff i dont take a pvp character to do. i think alot more could be done, but sadly like you said the dev team isnt really trying for that. i dont think a "fel only" xpac / new encounter would go over big.

 

[Hoffs]

So no other feedback to post #15?

 

[Gedgerez Tesherd]

Wouldn't it be interesting if the town buffs had an option that no longer tied to the global Governorship buff. Players with max city rep could have the option to select their own individual buff. Could perhaps ease the burden that some Governors feel when players demand city buffs & do not contribute funds. Meaning if a player wants a particular buff so badly, they can pay their own full price or maybe even double the current cost for their single buff. Maybe leave the current status of all buff statistics as they are & convert them to single buff status, then convert the newly revised info from post #15 to the Governor access only global city buff option.

 

[Barry Gibb]

The majority of the current trade deals equate to a partially Imbued property (roughly an additional 40 points of imbued weight). I would prefer to see the deals be closer to one full imbued property. I believe the majority of them offer an insignificant option (this insignificance is compounded when also considering property caps [given below in brackets], refer to here: http://uo2.stratics.com/items/magic-item-properties). I completely understand (and agree) that these deals are not intended to be powerful mods to the character, and they should continue to be so.

• Guild of Arcane Arts: +5% SDI (imbue weight = 41) [33.0% of cap for PvP (5/15 cap) , NA for PvM]
• Society of Clothiers: +1% Resist to all resists (imbue weight = 33) [1.4% of cap (1/70 cap)]
• Bardic Collegium: +1 FC (imbue weight = 140) [50.0% of cap (1/2 cap)]
• Order of Engineers: +3 Dex (imbue weight = 41) [2.0% of cap (3/150 cap)]
• Guild of Healers: 5% Bandage Healing (imbue weight = 93) [8.3% of cap (1/120 cap)]
• Maritime Guild: +2 HPR (imbue weight = 100) [% cap NA]
• Merchant’s Association: +2 MR (imbue weight = 100) [% cap NA]
• Mining Cooperative: +3 Str (imbue weight = 41) [2.0% of cap (3/150 cap)]
• League of Rangers: +3 Int (imbue weight = 41) [2.0% of cap (3/150 cap)]
• Guild of Assassins: +5% SSI (imbue weight =18) [8.3% of cap (5/60 cap)]
• Warrior’s Guild: +5% HCI (imbue weight = 43) [11.1% of cap (5/45 cap)]

This concludes my analysis of the current trade deals.

Society of Clothiers: Currently +1% Resist bump to all resists and pretty much completely useless. Would +5% be of use? An increase to resist caps has been suggested instead. Thoughts on that and what the cap increase would need to be?

Personally, I would avoid adjusting the resist caps (it is a dangerously slippery slope if they are bumped for free). I would prefer to see a +10-15 of a single resist, rather than a spread. Allow the citizen to chose (and change, with limitations e.g. not in combat) which specific resist they want at the city stone. A decent boost to a single resist is much easier to plan your armor around, than a lesser distribution.

Stat buffing deals: Currently at +3 each, but would probably need to be at least 10. However, it has been suggested that these three deals could be replaced by a single one that boosts all stats. What do people think of that? And what would the combined buff need to be?

An increase to +10 would be a good step. This would bring them closer to a significant percentage of their cap as the coveted SSI trade deal. As with the resists, I would prefer a decent boost to a single stat over a lesser distribution, it is easier to plan/incorporate in your build.

Guild of Healers: Currently 5% bandage healing. Smoot believes that any buff to amount healed would not be of much use and what is needed is faster healing or a bonus to healing skill in the same manner as enhanced bandages. Thoughts?

The current bonus is equivalent to using Enhanced Bandages, both are on par with +10 Healing skill. This was determined by using this calculator: http://uo.stratics.com/content/skills/healing.php, by comparing the amount healed between the initial configuration (100 Healing, 100 Anatomy, 100 Dex) to increasing increments of +5 Healing, while holding the Anatomy and Dex constant. At 100 Healing, the damage healed is 36-60 hit points. An 5% increase in this damage equates to an additional +1.8-3. At 110 Healing, the damage healed is 38-63 hit points, which is at the desired 5.0% increase. Faster Healing would be nice, but I fear it may be too powerful than what is intended by the trade deals. The smallest boost in Healing speed (1.0s) is equivalent to an additional +20 Dex. Healing is one of the few skills which have remained well balanced for a very long time.

Warriors Guild (HCI): Would need to be at least 10%, but it has been postulated that it would need to be +15% for most people to consider that in place of the SSI deal. A combined DCI/HCI deal has also been suggested. Thoughts?

This deal would be vastly improved if the citizen could select from an aggressive (HCI) or defensive (DCI) variation of the deal at the stone, in a similar fashion as I mentioned for the Society of Clothiers resist bonus. The magnitude of the HCI bonus (5%) is dialed just right (given the 45% HCI cap).

Merchant's Association: +2 Mana regen at the moment. It seems +4 would be needed at least. A combined regen buff has also been suggested. What do people think of that? And what would the combined rate be?

Maritime Guild: Currently +2 HP regen. See above.

As stand-alone bonuses, regen bonuses are really tricky. The current bonuses are equivalent to an additional 100% Intensity Imbuing Property, which is quite significant when building a suit (frees up an entire property and 100 imbuing weight). However, as a stand-alone property, MR2 and HPR2 are very minor effects. Any increase in the regen bonus (including combining regen types) would very easily start replacing significant portions of total suits, which is not the intent of the trade deal bonuses. These stand-alone regen bonuses should just disappear. Regen bonuses should be used as "icing" properties, NOT as the "cake".

Which brings me to The Second Best Idea of the Thread
(I don't mean to suggest it as a Silver Medal, simply the 2nd in a line ):

Then what I would like to see the buffs be is actually reference the trade they are associated with for skill gains or other bonuses, ...

I like the idea of having a skill gain bonus, it is a simple, straightforward, and cohesive bonus. The skills need to mesh with the intent of the trade organization (@Bianca_CoD did a good job on this). I have some specific thoughts/questions on the others aspects:

• Mining Cooperative: %5 Increase to Ore Resources
• Order of Engineers: %5 Increase to Wood Resources
• Society of Clothiers: %5 Increase to Skinning Resources

Are theses similar the human Workhorse trait (e.g. +1 leather hide per corpse)? That would be a nice, simple boost.

• Maritime Guild: +1 Increase to Boating Speed as well as a %5 Reduction in Repair Costs – The boat speed idea is inventive, but I do not think it could be implemented (I am unsure if the supposed +1 Fishing bonus of the Tokuno Ship ever worked). A Repair Cost reduction sounds interesting, though I do not have enough experience with ship repairs to evaluate further.
• Merchant’s Association: +%5 Reduction to Vendor Fees - Would this apply to player run vendors or to NPC vendor purchases?

I would like to expand the above ideas even further. The Trade Deals should have multiple components, which combine portions of each of these ideas, so it will appeal/apply to a number of character builds. The Trade Deal needs to appeal to both veteran and new players. Each Trade Deal should consist of the following:

• A Magical Property Type Bonus – Similar effects to what is currently offered.
• A Skill Gain Bonus – For the characters that are training skills, similar to what @Bianca_CoD posted. I would expect that not all skills will be covered, so they can be incorporated into expansion into other facets (Ter-Mur, Tokuno, etc..).
• A Skill Success Bonus – For the characters that are Grandmasters of their craft. Examples include:
  • 5% ___ Skill Bonus / 5% ___ Skill Exceptional Bonus (similar to a talisman)
  • 5% Imbuing Success Chance (similar to the Queen’s Forge)
  • Fish Bait Strength Bonus (similar to Fisherman’s Armor Set)
• A General/Miscellaneous Bonus – Something to add more variety and spice to the trade deal. For example:
  • Mana, Stamina, OR Hit Point Regeneration
  • Increase to Skinning Resources
  • Increase to Wood Resources
  • Increase to Ore Resources
  • Reduction in Repair Costs
  • Reduction of Vendor Fees
  • Stamina Protection

Each Trade Deal should try to offer at least two options to the citizen, to be chosen/changed only at the city stone. This will allow the Governor to offer some degree of customization to his constituents, while still requiring one trade deal selection.

Example of a trade deals which incorporate the above material:

• Guild of Arcane Arts [chose one of the following]
  • Sorcerer: +5% Spell Damage Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Magery, Necromancy, and Evaluate Intelligence, +5% Inscription Bonus / 5% Inscription Exceptional Bonus, 2 Mana Regeneration.
  • Attuned Mystic: +5% Spell Damage Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Magery, Mysticism, and Spellweaving, +5% Imbuing Success Bonus, 2 Hit Point Regeneration.
• Warrior's Guild [chose one of the following]
  • Ferocious Aggressor: +5% Hit Chance Increase Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Swordsmanship, Tactics, and Mace Fighting, +5% Blacksmithing Bonus / 5% Blacksmithing Exceptional Bonus, 3 Stamina Regeneration.
  • Stalwart Defender: +5% Defense Chance Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Swordsmanship, Parrying, and Resisting Spells, +5% Blacksmithing Bonus / 5% Blacksmithing Exceptional Bonus, 2 Hit Point Regeneration.

So no other feedback to post #15?

@Hoffs Is this what you are looking for?

 

[Bianca_CoD]

Which brings me to The Second Best Idea of the Thread
(I don't mean to suggest it as a Silver Medal, simply the 2nd in a line ):
I like the idea of having a skill gain bonus, it is a simple, straightforward, and cohesive bonus. The skills need to mesh with the intent of the trade organization (@Bianca_CoD did a good job on this). I have some specific thoughts/questions on the others aspects:

• Mining Cooperative: %5 Increase to Ore Resources
• Order of Engineers: %5 Increase to Wood Resources
• Society of Clothiers: %5 Increase to Skinning Resources

Are theses similar the human Workhorse trait (e.g. +1 leather hide per corpse)? That would be a nice, simple boost.

• Maritime Guild: +1 Increase to Boating Speed as well as a %5 Reduction in Repair Costs – The boat speed idea is inventive, but I do not think it could be implemented (I am unsure if the supposed +1 Fishing bonus of the Tokuno Ship ever worked). A Repair Cost reduction sounds interesting, though I do not have enough experience with ship repairs to evaluate further.
• Merchant’s Association: +%5 Reduction to Vendor Fees - Would this apply to player run vendors or to NPC vendor purchases?

I would like to expand the above ideas even further. The Trade Deals should have multiple components, which combine portions of each of these ideas, so it will appeal/apply to a number of character builds. The Trade Deal needs to appeal to both veteran and new players. Each Trade Deal should consist of the following:

• A Magical Property Type Bonus – Similar effects to what is currently offered.
• A Skill Gain Bonus – For the characters that are training skills, similar to what @Bianca_CoD posted. I would expect that not all skills will be covered, so they can be incorporated into expansion into other facets (Ter-Mur, Tokuno, etc..).
• A Skill Success Bonus – For the characters that are Grandmasters of their craft. Examples include:
  • 5% ___ Skill Bonus / 5% ___ Skill Exceptional Bonus (similar to a talisman)
  • 5% Imbuing Success Chance (similar to the Queen’s Forge)
  • Fish Bait Strength Bonus (similar to Fisherman’s Armor Set)
• A General/Miscellaneous Bonus – Something to add more variety and spice to the trade deal. For example:
  • Mana, Stamina, OR Hit Point Regeneration
  • Increase to Skinning Resources
  • Increase to Wood Resources
  • Increase to Ore Resources
  • Reduction in Repair Costs
  • Reduction of Vendor Fees
  • Stamina Protection

Each Trade Deal should try to offer at least two options to the citizen, to be chosen/changed only at the city stone. This will allow the Governor to offer some degree of customization to his constituents, while still requiring one trade deal selection.

Example of a trade deals which incorporate the above material:

• Guild of Arcane Arts [chose one of the following]
  • Sorcerer: +5% Spell Damage Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Magery, Necromancy, and Evaluate Intelligence, +5% Inscription Bonus / 5% Inscription Exceptional Bonus, 2 Mana Regeneration.
  • Attuned Mystic: +5% Spell Damage Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Magery, Mysticism, and Spellweaving, +5% Imbuing Success Bonus, 2 Hit Point Regeneration.
• Warrior's Guild [chose one of the following]
  • Ferocious Aggressor: +5% Hit Chance Increase Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Swordsmanship, Tactics, and Mace Fighting, +5% Blacksmithing Bonus / 5% Blacksmithing Exceptional Bonus, 3 Stamina Regeneration.
  • Stalwart Defender: +5% Defense Chance Increase, +5% Skill Gain Bonus in Swordsmanship, Parrying, and Resisting Spells, +5% Blacksmithing Bonus / 5% Blacksmithing Exceptional Bonus, 2 Hit Point Regeneration.

@Hoffs Is this what you are looking for?

Are theses similar the human Workhorse trait (e.g. +1 leather hide per corpse)? That would be a nice, simple boost.

I do not see why not? I mean Workhorse trait is great, but not all have access to it. So it would be nice to provide that in a way to all races, not just humans. I could see Workhorse still be relevant as if you are human you get +1 or +2 to your resources on top of the City Buff.

The boat speed idea is inventive, but I do not think it could be implemented (I am unsure if the supposed +1 Fishing bonus of the Tokuno Ship ever worked). A Repair Cost reduction sounds interesting, though I do not have enough experience with ship repairs to evaluate further.

I too am unsure about the +1 Fishing, can anyone else confirm that for us? If it did work, I don't see why the +1 to boat speed wouldn't. I could see places like Vesper or Jhelom utilize this bonus a lot as many ships reside there. The resources needed for repairs can get quite cumbersome... sometimes taking over 1000 ingots, 5000 boards etc (roughly) to repair your ship and the larger the ship the more resources it takes, so this would be very beneficial to those of us that enjoy High Seas.

Would this apply to player run vendors or to NPC vendor purchases?

Player merchants of course. I wouldn't want anything to be changed about the city vendors; don't think they are used all that much. But player-vendors are and with the new "Vendor Search" (when they fix it!) there will be an increase in their use I believe, so this would help. Even if its 1% it would be nice!

I still feel that if we over complicate it, it has a less chance of getting implemented. If we kept it to just "current" trade deals (perhaps with some tweaks) plus say my ideas as the "secondary buff option" it would be easier to implement.

~ Sue.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I still feel that if we over complicate it, it has a less chance of getting implemented. If we kept it to just "current" trade deals (perhaps with some tweaks) plus say my ideas as the "secondary buff option" it would be easier to implement.

I agree that it should not be too complicated. But on the other hand, each trade deals needs to have a broad appeal. That way characters can get some use out of it, even if most of the bonus is not in their wheelhouse for that week. I do not think that tweaks to the current bonuses and the addition of skill gain bonuses are enough. I think the trade deals need to be taken one step further.

 

[startle]

I agree that it should not be too complicated. But on the other hand, each trade deals needs to have a broad appeal. That way characters can get some use out of it, even if most of the bonus is not in their wheelhouse for that week. I do not think that tweaks to the current bonuses and the addition of skill gain bonuses are enough. I think the trade deals need to be taken one step further.

Very well stated, BG... I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[Bianca_CoD]

I agree, but perhaps a phased approach would be better received by the development team. If they have to spend too much time on it, they may decide its not worth the effort. That's all I am saying.

~ Sue.

 

[startle]

I agree, but perhaps a phased approach would be better received by the development team. If they have to spend too much time on it, they may decide its not worth the effort. That's all I am saying.

~ Sue.

Yes, Hoffs is asking for changes that could be implemented without serious coding... That's what we all want.

 

[Barry Gibb]

I agree, but perhaps a phased approach would be better received by the development team. If they have to spend too much time on it, they may decide its not worth the effort. That's all I am saying.

I hear what you are saying.

My feedback is that of an End User. As to If/When/How it gets implemented is out of my hands, all can say to that is Please/Soon/Smoothly.
I couldn't code my way out of a wet, paper sack (well, maybe if it was thin paper....).

 

[MissEcho]

Rather than the ridiculous 2 mil per week for one type of buff (that generally, especially on the small shards, the governor has to pay amounting to 104 million per year if you want to maintain it so it is totally ignored now) make it that players can go to ANY stone and select ANY buff they want for the price of 10k per if they are a CITIZEN of the town, and 20k per if they are NOT a citizen.

The buffs can last 3 hours before the need to 'renew' them.

If it was like that I would actually use it on all my chars and support the towns of choicer per character. Money can also be raised by citizen donations as per the current ability or by holding events to 'raise' funds. The money raised by the towns by selling buffs and other type of fundraising could be put towards 'buying' town deco.

Make a list of available deco items such as:
* 50 million: town wishing wells that can be placed in the town where 'mini' prizes say 10k gold, +.5 sots, scrolls of alacrity, 5 taint (the selection of wish prizes is limitless) where CITIZENS of the town can toss in 1k gold per wish, once per char per week for a chance to 'win'. (1 per town)
* 30 million: town smelting post; where if CITIZENS smelt ore there you have the chance to 'double' the take so instead of 20 ingots, you get 40 etc or crafting there increases the 'exceptional' % of crafting by 10% or something. (1 per town)
* 30 million: town stonemason post: where CITIZENS can get a 'bit' of a statue once a week and after 10 weeks they can combine to produce various statues in new 'shapes', perhaps one of 20 types/names some rarer than others to form collections so. (1 per town)
* 5 million: decorative fountains, GOVERNOR selects from 5 designs.
* 10 million: Memorial statue Selected by the GOVERNOR that when clicked shows the names of past governors of the town. (1 per town)
* 5 million: Planter boxes: Selection of 10 or more designs containing various decorative trees in really nice deco containers that give resources, such as apples, vanilla, cocoa, peaches etc that can be used to decorate the town, providing avenues etc.
* 30 million: Fish Pond: selected from 3 designs by the Governor, where fish of all existing types may be fished out, including rare varieties


the list could be endless and it would be something that could be added to all the time to make it interesting and stuff like statues, or prizes changed around every so often. Perhaps a 'ballot' by citizens could be used to determine what 'style' of pond or fountain is selected if people didn't want the governor to have all the say etc, although there has to be something that the governor has some control over to make it worth the effort etc.

Perhaps donations made in felucca on a town stone can also be used to purchase the above items for the felucca facet. Whether or not the buffs are or are not available doesn't mean that fel citizens can't donate to a fel stone and once enough funds are raised the corresponding governor of the tram side could run a ballot for fel citizens to select what item they want placed inthe fel town, the tram governors can be 'caretaker' governors for monitoring the town stones there if it deemed that fel isn't allowed to have its own governors as is currently the state.

If there was some 'point' to being a governor and a citizen other than the buff I know people would really 'support' the system. I know if as a the current governor of vesper, and having some chars citizens there and some citizens of other towns I would really use the buffs to raise money so that eventually each town could obtain the above types of rewards etc.

 

[cazador]

At one point you're complaining it costs too much..then on the other are advocating to add a gold sink..I'm confused. But I do like the idea of citizens donating 50k to use the buffs and 100k for non citizens..and 50% of the gold goes into the treasury and the rest is a wash..

As for the deco items..I like most of those ideas except for the caretaker aspect of fel..it would be a waste. Without the buffs it'll never be used.

The wishing well would be more sought after if I was 15k per 24hrs..25% goes into the treasury the rest is a wash..it'll help pull some gold from the economy..

If buff stones were placed into fel and at double cost almost every red if not every would use them..and even some would play the evil RP..not all but some. So at 25-50k per day per buff with one character to get the FC buff which is super OP with building suits..a red using that daily would donate 9m-18m per year per character..well worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Speranza]

I'm of the opinion the trade deals are just fine. I would just like to change the mechanics on how you get the buff. You want a trade deal? You pay City Loyalty to get it. Much like the Virtue system. Instead of the governor picking a set buff for two weeks you get which ever trade deal you want for 24 hours. You want a gold sink? Make them pay X gold instead of loyalty.

 

[cazador]

I'm of the opinion the trade deals are just fine. I would just like to change the mechanics on how you get the buff. You want a trade deal? You pay City Loyalty to get it. Much like the Virtue system. Instead of the governor picking a set buff for two weeks you get which ever trade deal you want for 24 hours. You want a gold sink? Make them pay X gold instead of loyalty.

I mean luckily we have a good governor in new mag on chessy @Lord Gareth who has put a ton of gold into it..but we also have a good 10-15+ characters that use it daily..and 25-50k gold a day per character would supplement it fine..I've already donated a good amount of gold towards it..but would still be all for a daily use fee.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hoffs]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Barry. I actually agree with you that messing around with caps is dangerous. I also agree that the regen deals are not the best. What about an LMC buff in place of the mana regen, and what value would that have to be?

This deal would be vastly improved if the citizen could select from an aggressive (HCI) or defensive (DCI) variation of the deal at the stone, in a similar fashion as I mentioned for the Society of Clothiers resist bonus. The magnitude of the HCI bonus (5%) is dialed just right (given the 45% HCI cap)..

This one surprises me. You believe that a +5 HCI boost is about right, yet very few towns seem to want to run this particular deal?

 

[MissEcho]

At one point you're complaining it costs too much..then on the other are advocating to add a gold sink..I'm confused. But I do like the idea of citizens donating 50k to use the buffs and 100k for non citizens..and 50% of the gold goes into the treasury and the rest is a wash..

As for the deco items..I like most of those ideas except for the caretaker aspect of fel..it would be a waste. Without the buffs it'll never be used.

The wishing well would be more sought after if I was 15k per 24hrs..25% goes into the treasury the rest is a wash..it'll help pull some gold from the economy..

If buff stones were placed into fel and at double cost almost every red if not every would use them..and even some would play the evil RP..not all but some. So at 25-50k per day per buff with one character to get the FC buff which is super OP with building suits..a red using that daily would donate 9m-18m per year per character..well worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It cost too much at 2 mil a week to get buffs as the way it works on most shards, the governor ends up having to put it ALL in every week or it doesn't happen, and that is for ONE buff that perhaps only a small proportion of the citizens of the town can use. ie my warrior who is a citizen of Britain doesn't want the sdi buff there etc, yet my mage who wants that buff is a citizen of another town that has something else. It is impossible to keep changing citizenship on a weekly basis just to make your template able to use the relevant buff set in a town and not all templates that are citizens in a town are the same to take advantage of ONE buff. ie not all citizen of Britain are mages or templates that can take advantage of an sdi buff. That is why I suggest rather than the buff costing 2 mil a week JUST to set it, that players can 'buy' a buff of ANY type from any town, although being a citizen makes it cheaper. I am not against gold sinks, in fact UO needs gold sinks, just not off ONE person, for gold sink to be effective it has to be broadly based, taken from the majority of players on a regular basis and be cheap enough that people don't mind paying it. 104 mil per town x 9 = 936 mil per year gold sink, however right now on my shard that would be off 9 people so as a gold sink it is non existent as we REFUSE to pay it. My way will generate some funds which is better than NOTHING which is the case now.

50k or 100k is too much for a buff irrespective of if it lasts 24 hours. At 10k per citizen and 20k per non citizen it is affordable for pretty much everyone DAILY, (Daily being the operative word here) as if you play 1 char a day regularly, it will cost you 10k per day (70k per week) if they are citizens to gain the buff, or if they aren't citizens a maximum of 140k per week, for the char to have a buff every day. I suggested 3 hours as most hunting trips for the average player would not go over 3 hrs, and if you were playing a couple of different templates, 10k for one and 10k for another would give you 6 hours of play time with a buff of YOUR chosing, or if you wanted to play longer then you can renew it on one char etc. It would still be vastly cheaper than 2 mil a week which is what I have to pay now as governor of vesper on my shard. However, 3 hours was just a suggestion, it could be 24 hours, whatever. However the amount is what is the key here, it has to be affordable so that people would pay it each time they went out hunting. Above 10-20k they won't bother as over the course of time it is too expensive, and given it is tram only you are only talking pvm here. I am only likely to loot 50-150k as it is when I go out hunting, sometimes less, sometimes more, but it is NOT cost effective to pay 50 or 100k just for a 5% buff is it especially if it cost me 50k to get a hunting buff where I only loot 50k, why bother?

I would rather have 10 citizens give my town 70.000 per week for a buff on one char, once a day than NOTHING which is what my town gets now. 700k for those buffs in a week adds up to a huge amount donated over the course of a year, and they would also have the advantage of actually 'selecting' the buff they wanted and not have to depend on what the governor elects for the buff.

I don't play fel and don't really care if deco stuff is put there. It was a suggestion ONLY to account for those who would complain that something like a 'wishing well' above gave an unfair advantage to people in trammel especially if it gave out prizes as I suggested above. If the fel community isn't interested, fine, they don't have to contribute or donate anything to the pot and there is no loss to anyone. However, it stops the whining that trammel gets something they don't which I guarantee WOULD happen. If the devs have something planned for factions and good v evil etc and that will account for lack of buffs fine, the above deco ideas still wouldn't hurt to be in both facets. If people don't want to use them fine. No one is forced to. It would of given 'red' only players, in the case of the wishing well, something similar to the one in the underworld which reds cannot currently access.

Not sure on your comment on the wishing well, that is a deco item that gives out stuff when you toss 1k in you get a prize, can be junk or something good like .5 sot, similar to the fountain in the underworld, it isn't 'time' based. The fact it will take the town a good while to make the 50 mil to purchase it is fine, it gives the governors something to AIM for. I know if there was something worth having I myself would probably donate a mil a week to the pot so that as governor I would be making a difference to my town in the long run. However I am NOT prepared to toss in 2 mil per week so that half a dozen or less citizens 'might' get a free buff, forget it. No one on our shard sets buffs, not a single governor, and at each and every governors meeting we complain about 2 mil and have all stated NONE of us will be setting buffs due to the cost. This falls on deaf ears it seems.

It is not my idea that fel isn't getting the buffs. That is the devs decision, I don't play a red there so don't really have an opinion.

The above suggestions are so that there is a better way than the 2 mil a week to get the buffs in trammel. So that people actually donate to the town rather than the set up now where they want 'someone' else to pay for the buff yet they can get it free once a day if it is set up, and to give the citizens of a town something to 'aim' for in the way of deco items etc and an actual REASON to donate to the town. Making people pay for buffs as part of fundraising ensures that there is a steady stream of income and that the cost of it is born by all not just a few. In reality we don't NEED the silly buffs, for pvm they hardly make a difference and so no one is prepared to pay the outrageous 2 mil per week, they are just an incentive to donate money to towns and are NOT needed for RP at all. As they are now they are an epic 'fail' my ideas are to make them viable and actually give the governors something to work towards in the way of measuring achievement that isn't based on who sucks up to the EM the most or based on what EM actually has time to bother with the whole thing.

 

[Smoot]

the price of buffs is alot better understood when you realize the cost of items. as it is now, the 5ssi saves you an average of 75mil to 300mil in items. the faster casting saves you close to 1 billion gold. its all about looking at the items and where else those stats can come from.

Seeing how much gold it saves a person, i think 50k per use is just about right.

 

[whiterabbit]

use any city buff, and pay for it
meees like echos ideaer

 

[cazador]

It doesn't have to be ONE person funding the buff..if people want to use it then they pay period..if you as governor refuse to pay for it and 2-3 citizens want it weekly then it gets paid for and renewed or else it doesn't...and if you don't have atleast 5 people in your city then in all honesty the system is a fail anyways.. Might as well have not wasted any time and gave a select few the option to set cute titles like Guardian of Vesper..not an attack on you at all echo..just it doesn't seem they put much thought into things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MissEcho]

It doesn't have to be ONE person funding the buff..if people want to use it then they pay period..if you as governor refuse to pay for it and 2-3 citizens want it weekly then it gets paid for and renewed or else it doesn't...and if you don't have atleast 5 people in your city then in all honesty the system is a fail anyways.. Might as well have not wasted any time and gave a select few the option to set cute titles like Guardian of Vesper..not an attack on you at all echo..just it doesn't seem they put much thought into things


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Problem is you cannot compare shard for shard. Prime example we had an EM event tonight that has been advertised for about 2 weeks. 6 People showed up for it and that is the average for EM events on our shard, maybe we sometimes get 10 and the all time high at the moment is about 14. We used to get well over a hundred show up but those times are LONG gone. Given that EM events are also NOT equal it just makes everyone on our shard depressed. Constantly hear gripes on here about the way the 'drops' happen at EM events, guess what, at least you GET DROPS. 99% of our events result in the winner, second and third getting their name engraved on some piece of JUNK locked down by the em in a reward hall located out on Terra Sanctum in Trammel (Yeah! right in the hub of our bustling shard *sarcasm*). I don't REMEMBER the last time we actually had anything drop at an EM event, to any type of damage dealer or healer or anything. We get NOTHING. Yet this last publish is modifying the calculation for how stuff is distributed. Well cheers for the rest of you. Our shard gets zip drops so who gives a toss how they are distributed.

Given that there are 9 towns, pretty much all the regular players are governors, in fact, 2 of our towns don't even have a governor and haven't since the thing began in fact probably an average of 3-5 haven't had governors each round. I reckon we would be lucky to have 40 regular players left on our shard, and I think that would be 'generous' so to maintain 9 towns buffs each and every player would need to donate 23 million a year for a 5% buff. However, I reckon only about 20 players max (most with multiple accounts) is a more realistic number so put that to roughly 46-50 million each per year.

Maybe on ATLANTIC and the larger American shards you can get away with 2 mil a week, on our shard you can't. The devs make absolutely NO ALLOWANCE for the fact that Atlantic has 100 times the population our shard has, probably even more, yet the cost is the SAME. This is what we have been complaining about, the fact that NOTHING is scaled due to the relative shard populations.

We all pay the same to play, in fact we actually pay a lot MORE to play on our shard given the current exchange rates. I estimate on average it costs us about 18-20 per month to play given the rate and taxes etc. Yet there is absolutely NO thought given to the fact that all game systems are equal hence people playing on smaller shards are at a massive disadvantage, you really notice it when it comes to stuff like this.

Even so, I would like to use the buffs, but not for 2 mil a week which is what it would cost. I know I have at least 2 citizens, because I have 3 accounts, hence one governor, 2 citizens lol. My other 'citizens' are probably chars of the other governors, who became citizens to get a town banner, as a lot of my chars are citizens of their towns for the same reason. They are only gonna donate or buy buffs off their own towns. At least if you paid for buffs the money you donate to your own town would go towards something to deco it, and at least give you something to aim for. Now the whole thing is USELESS to us.

Maybe we should all just quit playing, it feels like that is the kinda what the devs are angling for. Just depress us with the introduction of new stuff that we have no chance of maintaining until we quit due to the hopelessness of it all.

Anyways, I believe the stuff I suggested would at least make the role of governor on ANY shard a lot more rewarding and a lot more rewarding for all players in being able to get the buff of their choice while contributing equally to the town coffers and creating/maintaining a gold sink that was obviously part of the original design.

 

[Barry Gibb]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Barry. I actually agree with you that messing around with caps is dangerous. I also agree that the regen deals are not the best. What about an LMC buff in place of the mana regen, and what value would that have to be?

If LMC was added, I expect to see it at 5% magnitude. Lower Mana Cost has low property cap at 40% LMC. A bonus of 5% consumes 12.5% of that cap (which frees up an equivalent 69 points of Imbuing Weight). LMC can be Imbued up to 8% on armor and jewelry pieces, and Reforged up to 10% on armor and shields (10% LMC = 138 imbuing weight). There are several "accessory" slot items (talismans, clothing, etc..) which provide LMC. If you consider that non-medable also provides inherent LMC (not subject to the cap), a greater than 5% LMC bonus can easily be too significant.

This one surprises me. You believe that a +5 HCI boost is about right, yet very few towns seem to want to run this particular deal?

My rationale for this is similar to that of LMC. Hit Chance Increase (HCI), and Defense Chance Increase (DCI), also have a low property cap of 45%. A bonus of 5% consumes 11.1% of that cap (which frees up an equivalent 43 points of Imbuing Weight). HCI can be Imbued up to 15% on melee weapons and jewelry pieces, an Imbued up to 25% on ranged weapons. It can also be Reforged up to 5% on armor and shields, up to 20% on melee weapons, up to 35% on ranged weapons. Woodland armor can gain an additional 5% if enhanced with Heartwood (if you get lucky). Several "accessory" slot items (talismans, clothing, etc..) provide HCI. It is fairly easy to reach the low HCI cap, since there are so many ways to get HCI.

As to why the HCI bonus is not as popular as SDI, FC, and SSI, you simply have to look at the property caps and how they can be obtained.

• SDI has a much lower cap than HCI (15 vs 45). SDI can only be Imbued on jewelry and cannot be Reforged; it is a rare property.
  
• FC has a cap of 2, the bonus provide half of that cap. No further analysis is required.
• SSI has a higher property cap (60 vs 45), but it is much harder to obtain. SSI can be Imbued only on weapons, and Reforged only on weapons and shields. The effects of SSI can have a much greater impact "point-for-point" than HCI.

The spirit of the Trade Bonus is to provide a little "sugar" on top of the City Loyalty System, some tangible, useful benefit for the character. Just as one "accessory" item, the bonus is not intended to be a majority part of your suit. Any revision of the trade deals must never forget this.

 

[Hoffs]

Thanks. Barry. I fully understand what you are saying here, but surely unless the other deals like HCI are buffed a little, then we are going to continue to have the current big three trade deals dominate on all shards?

 

[Aurelius]

It doesn't have to be ONE person funding the buff..if people want to use it then they pay period..if you as governor refuse to pay for it and 2-3 citizens want it weekly then it gets paid for and renewed or else it doesn't...and if you don't have atleast 5 people in your city then in all honesty the system is a fail anyways.. Might as well have not wasted any time and gave a select few the option to set cute titles like Guardian of Vesper..not an attack on you at all echo..just it doesn't seem they put much thought into things

The key is the lack of thinking behind the system - sure it doesn't HAVE to be one person funding it, but that's how it is working out pretty much everywhere. I am lucky enough to be able to cover the costs of the buff, for now - but if it's meant to be a gold sink, than as usual it's a hopelessly untargeted and poorly considered gold sink. The Devs wanted keen, committed and involved people to work as the Governors, get activities going, build up the shard communities - and most do - but also decided to add a huge gold cost onto exactly those people. Makes little sense, either as a gold sink for the game or as encouragement to involvement.

Yes, the Governors can walk away from the system as you say, and we can write it off as a failure (one of far too many for the game!), but I'd rather try get got some clear and joined up thinking to make a system that works. There's the seed of a really excellent and innovative system here, and I don't want to watch this one slowly die like so many other good ideas for the game have done over the years.

The Dev 'thinking' so far seems to be "Lets tax the people we want to encourage, that'll make them keener to do stuff....". This is not clever.

 

[Barry Gibb]

Thanks. Barry. I fully understand what you are saying here, but surely unless the other deals like HCI are buffed a little, then we are going to continue to have the current big three trade deals dominate on all shards?

I agree, the Trade Deals need more to compete against the big three (SSI, FC, & SSI). However, as shown earlier, the trade deals can be enhanced in other ways than just turning their one property up to eleven. Not all trade deals necessarily need similar components (e.g. Guild of Assassins does not have to provide skill gain bonuses and/or additional regen).

 

[Pandora_CoD]

the price of buffs is alot better understood when you realize the cost of items. as it is now, the 5ssi saves you an average of 75mil to 300mil in items. the faster casting saves you close to 1 billion gold. its all about looking at the items and where else those stats can come from.

Seeing how much gold it saves a person, i think 50k per use is just about right.

See I agree with that. 50k is an hour tops at Daemons... I mean that's not a whole lot of gold and when everyone chips in it would accumulate nicely... on some servers more than others. My only question would be do we offer it to ALL citizens from ALL cities for 50k AND at a discount (say 25k) for citizens of THE city? Or do we only offer it to citizens of THAT city only?

I am actually in favor of opening it up to all cities, because then folks can choose their loyalty to a city that is more story-based to their characters than by what buff that city carries.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

At one point you're complaining it costs too much..then on the other are advocating to add a gold sink..I'm confused.

While I definitely agree that there should be a gold sink, what I disagree with is that gold sink being shouldered by one person (the governor) which has become the normal EXPECTATION in some shards. I have a problem with that. And yes there are ways to raise that money, no doubt... but on less populated shards, this is quite difficult. It is especially difficult when the governor is of the RP variety, as RP'ers are not necessarily the richest folks around (at least on my shard they are not).

 

[Hoffs]

The original intention of this thread was to find quick fixes to bring some of the trade deals into line with “the big three”. However, upon reviewing the feedback here, and the continuing concerns that people have about the funding of the deals, I have become convinced that the best solution would be something along the lines that Barry suggested back in post #24, with each trade deal having multiple components (namely a property bonus, skill training bonus, skill success bonus and a miscellaneous bonus). Even though such an idea would be far less likely to be implemented, and even if it were would probably be a long way down the line, this is what I am going to look at because it seems the best way of solving many problems:

a) The broadening of the scope of the deals should appeal to a far wider section of people, thus making it easier for governors to raise funds.

b) The introduction of non-combat elements should appeal to RPers and crafters.

c) The skill training bonus, if it could be implemented, would bring a tangible benefit to new players, and get them interested in the town system.

d) With four elements to each deal, it is slightly easier to make each deal appealing in some way.

e) It is easier to make trade deals bonuses reflect the name of the trade they represent.

Below I present some suggestions for guilds and their benefits. Please feel free to comment on every aspect. In some cases there are items missing, so suggestions for these and other bonuses are welcome. I have diverged from Barry's system somewhat, namely the choices that would be available for people using the deals, in an effort to keep things as simple as possible.

Please note that skill bonuses would apply only when success chances are greater than zero to begin with.

Merchants Guild
Property bonus: +10 Intelligence
Skill gain bonus: Item Identification, Tinkering
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional tinkering
Miscellaneous bonus: 5% reduction in NPC prices

Covenant Of Sorcerers
Property bonus: +5 SDI
Skill gain bonus: Magery, Evaluating Intelligence, Mysticism, Necromancy, Spirit Speak
Skill bonus: +5% to success chance of casting Magery, Mysticism & Necromancy spells
Miscellaneous bonus: +5% casting focus (additional to item cap)

Magicians' Lodge
Property bonus: +5 LMC
Skill gain bonus: Magery, Evaluating Intelligence, Inscription, Resisting Spells, Spellweaving
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance to normal/exceptional inscription chances
Miscellaneous bonus: +2 strength of arcane focus (maximum 6)

Assassins Guild
Property bonus: +5 SSI
Skill gain bonus: Begging, Detect Hidden, Hiding, Lockpicking, Ninjitsu, Poisoning, Remove Trap, Snooping, Stealing, Stealth, Thievery
Skill bonus: +10% success chance for stealing
Miscellaneous bonus: ?

Warriors Coalition
Property bonus: +10% DCI
Skill gain bonus: Bushido, Fencing, Mace Fighting, Parrying, Swordsmanship, Wrestling
Skill bonus: ?
Miscellaneous bonus: ?

Maritime Guild
Property bonus: +4 Dexterity/Intelligence/Strength
Skill gain bonus: Cartography, Carpentry, Fishing, Wrestling
Skill bonus: Increased chance of catching rare fish
Miscellaneous bonus: +25% damage from ship cannon

Bardic Collegium
Property bonus: +1 Faster Casting
Skill gain bonus: Discordance, Musicianship, Peacemaking, Provocation
Skill bonus:+5% barding success chance
Miscellaneous bonus: ?

Society of Clothiers
Property bonus: +5 to all resists
Skill gain bonus: Arms Lore, Tailoring
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional tailoring
Miscellaneous bonus: +20% charges on runic sewing kits acquired from BODs

Association Of Metalworkers
Property bonus: +10 Strength
Skill gain bonus: Arms Lore, Blacksmithy, Mining
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional blacksmithing
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of special resources whilst mining

Sosarian Naturalists
Property bonus: + 10 Healing & Veterinary skill
Skill gain bonus: Anatomy, Animal Lore, Animal Taming, Healing, Herding, Lumberjack,Veterinary
Skill bonus: +5% success chance in taming
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of special resources whilst lumberjacking

League Of Rangers
Property bonus: +10 HCI
Skill gain bonus: Archery, Bowcraft, Lumberjacking,Tactics,Tracking, Throwing
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional fletching
Miscellaneous bonus: +20% hides from skinning corpses

Order Of Engineers
Property bonus: + 5 DCI, + 5 HCI
Skill gain bonus: Blacksmithy, Imbuing, Tinkering
Skill bonus: +5% success chance for imbuing
Miscellaneous bonus: 30% reduction in ship repair costs

Fellowship of Artisans
Property bonus: +10 Dexterity
Skill gain bonus: Bowcraft, Carpentry, Tinkering
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional carpentry
Miscellaneous bonus: +20% charges on runic saws acquired from quests

Guild of Apothecaries
Property bonus: +25 Enhance Pots
Skill gain bonus: Alchemy, Cooking, Forensic Evaluation, Poisoning, Taste Identification
Skill bonus: +10% success chance for alchemy
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of finding niter deposits

Company of Adventurers
Property bonus: +150 Luck
Skill gain bonus: Cartography, Chivalry, Cooking, Fishing, Lockpicking, Parrying, Swordsmanship, Tactics
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional cooking
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of treasure maps specials

 

[Smoot]

looks good.
only one that i think would be too unbalancing is Covenant Of Sorcerers, 5casting focus is just too much of a buff when reds do not have access to it. i could deal with 1 casting focus max.

Its a really hard system to begin with to balance. Its already discouraging enough to go red, lack of these bonuses is just another reason not to. People will argue about the "RP" aspect of the governors system, but the easiest "fix" to the lack of town bonus for reds is give Bucs den fel an npc stone with choice of any 1 bonus. That way the buffs could be made more attractive to blues, while also not further discouraging players from going red.

 

[Hoffs]

looks good.
only one that i think would be too unbalancing is Covenant Of Sorcerers, 5casting focus is just too much of a buff when reds do not have access to it. i could deal with 1 casting focus max.

Its a really hard system to begin with to balance. Its already discouraging enough to go red, lack of these bonuses is just another reason not to. People will argue about the "RP" aspect of the governors system, but the easiest "fix" to the lack of town bonus for reds is give Bucs den fel an npc stone with choice of any 1 bonus. That way the buffs could be made more attractive to blues, while also not further discouraging players from going red.

Hmm, okay. Being an exclusively Siege player, it had never even occurred to me that reds are excluded from the trade deals on normal shards. Hopefully we can get some alternative suggestions.

 

[Pandora_CoD]

looks good.
only one that i think would be too unbalancing is Covenant Of Sorcerers, 5casting focus is just too much of a buff when reds do not have access to it. i could deal with 1 casting focus max.

Its a really hard system to begin with to balance. Its already discouraging enough to go red, lack of these bonuses is just another reason not to. People will argue about the "RP" aspect of the governors system, but the easiest "fix" to the lack of town bonus for reds is give Bucs den fel an npc stone with choice of any 1 bonus. That way the buffs could be made more attractive to blues, while also not further discouraging players from going red.

I agree, 5 Casting Focus is too much... but a 5% increase overall I do not think is too much. There is a big difference there... 5 CF is like adding 30%... but he mentions only adding 5%. I am no mathematical genius tho. LOL

And I think the buffs should be introduced as part of the PvP system (whatever it ends up being) so that each city or each virtue offers a similar buff for all players that are in Felucca (blue, gray, red).

Could be something like this for the PvP System:

City of Serpent's Hold
Property bonus: +10 Intelligence
Skill gain bonus: Item Identification, Taste Identification, Forensic Evaluation, Remove Trap, Tracking, Tinkering (I added a few more skills here because Serp's Hold is the in character training locale for the Order of the Silver Serpent/ RBG... so it makes sense they'd teach that too)
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional tinkering
Miscellaneous bonus: 5% reduction in NPC prices

City of Moonglow
Property bonus: +5 SDI
Skill gain bonus: Magery, Evaluating Intelligence, Mysticism, Necromancy, Spirit Speak
Skill bonus: +5% to success chance of casting Magery, Mysticism & Necromancy spells
Miscellaneous bonus: +5% casting focus (additional to item cap)

City of Magincia
Property bonus: +5 LMC
Skill gain bonus: Magery, Evaluating Intelligence, Inscription, Resisting Spells, Spellweaving
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance to normal/exceptional inscription chances
Miscellaneous bonus: +2 strength of arcane focus (maximum 6)

City of Bucaneer's Den
Property bonus: +5 SSI
Skill gain bonus: Begging, Detect Hidden, Hiding, Lockpicking, Ninjitsu, Poisoning, Remove Trap, Snooping, Stealing, Stealth, Thievery
Skill bonus: +10% success chance for stealing
Miscellaneous bonus: ?

City of Jhelom
Property bonus: +10% DCI
Skill gain bonus: Bushido, Fencing, Mace Fighting, Parrying, Swordsmanship, Wrestling
Skill bonus: ?
Miscellaneous bonus: ?

City of Vesper
Property bonus: +4 Dexterity/Intelligence/Strength
Skill gain bonus: Cartography, Carpentry, Fishing, Wrestling
Skill bonus: Increased chance of catching rare fish
Miscellaneous bonus: +25% damage from ship cannon

City of Britain
Property bonus: +1 Faster Casting
Skill gain bonus: Discordance, Musicianship, Peacemaking, Provocation
Skill bonus:+5% barding success chance
Miscellaneous bonus: ?

City of Trinsic
Property bonus: +5 to all resists
Skill gain bonus: Arms Lore, Tailoring
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional tailoring
Miscellaneous bonus: +20% charges on runic sewing kits acquired from BODs

City of Minoc
Property bonus: +10 Strength
Skill gain bonus: Arms Lore, Blacksmithy, Mining
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional blacksmithing
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of special resources whilst mining

City of Yew
Property bonus: + 10 Healing & Veterinary skill
Skill gain bonus: Anatomy, Animal Lore, Animal Taming, Healing, Herding, Lumberjack,Veterinary
Skill bonus: +5% success chance in taming
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of special resources whilst lumberjacking

City of Skara Brae
Property bonus: +10 HCI
Skill gain bonus: Archery, Bowcraft, Lumberjacking,Tactics,Tracking, Throwing
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional fletching
Miscellaneous bonus: +20% hides from skinning corpses

City of Delucia
Property bonus: + 5 DCI, + 5 HCI
Skill gain bonus: Blacksmithy, Imbuing, Tinkering
Skill bonus: +5% success chance for imbuing
Miscellaneous bonus: 30% reduction in ship repair costs

City of Papua
Property bonus: +10 Dexterity
Skill gain bonus: Bowcraft, Carpentry, Tinkering
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional carpentry
Miscellaneous bonus: +20% charges on runic saws acquired from quests

City of Cove
Property bonus: +25 Enhance Pots
Skill gain bonus: Alchemy, Cooking, Forensic Evaluation, Poisoning, Taste Identification
Skill bonus: +10% success chance for alchemy
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of finding niter deposits

City of Nu'jelm
Property bonus: +150 Luck
Skill gain bonus: Cartography, Chivalry, Cooking, Fishing, Lockpicking, Parrying, Swordsmanship, Tactics
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of treasure maps specials

City of New Haven/Ocllo
Property bonus: +150 Luck
Skill gain bonus: Cartography, Chivalry, Cooking, Fishing, Lockpicking, Parrying, Swordsmanship, Tactics
Skill bonus: +10%/+5% success chance for normal/exceptional
Miscellaneous bonus: Increased chance of waterstained SOS/fishing nets specials

I'd love to see something like that... something that's PERMANENT to a certain city in both the new PvP system for Felucca and the Governor system for Trammel. Governors should not CHOOSE a buff, it should be permanent and their only concern would be to FUND it. Let's be honest some of these buffs just do not make sense in some cities --- like Britain with the Conservatory should ALWAYS promote bardic skills, the fact that in most shards it runs the Assassin's Guild buff MAKES ZERO SENSE "in character" but because its not permanent you get situations where 3 cities are running the same exact buff, like on Catskills.

And for the non-virtue towns, in Trammel, they could have MAYOR elections that do not have a council but maybe tied to another town. Like for example I could see Serpent's Hold tied to Jhelom ~or~ Nu'jelm tied to New Magincia ~or~ Cove tied to Minoc ~or~ Buc's Den tied to Vesper ~or~ Papua tied to Britain ~or~ Delucia tied to Trinsic ~or~ Haven/Ocllo tied to Moonglow .