Discussion about new ideas for economy

[Guest]

oOo ... I love iterating. That it is in the direction of a new economy is just ice cream on my gateau.

Thanks for the link, Polly!

 

[youradhere4222]

Luc, I have a question on the release date of the majority of these updates and the new city being released. I have a feeling with such a generalization of the date you have given us, it gives the possibility for EA to keep putting off the release date. I was wondering..

1) Can you give us a date that you can guarantee the new city and/or updates will be finished before.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

1) Can you give us a date that you can guarantee the new city and/or updates will be finished before.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) Luc hasn't posted here since the first day he started this thread.

b) Certainly you must realize how very, very early in the development process he is.

c) Give him a chance to finish asking for our inpurt on the basics. Changes like he is discussing do not happen overnight.

Think of it this way - the longer he asks for our input and the more he allows us to share our ideas, the better the chances are of us getting a product we will be happy with.

I believe we have a very unique opportunity here. Enjoy the process. With his post about setting up a website, it sounds as if we may get to see some of our ideas developed beyond the point of being "text in a blog". I have already learned quite a lot about the workings of TSO in the few short weeks since Luc posted here.

For the first time in a long while, I feel like I'm part of something with TSO rather than just a player. This is could be more memorable than playing the finished product.

 

[gamdaaf]

I think we should be very careful about removing catalogs would we not be just giving a new method of being scammed and cheated in the game the catalog gives a reliable level of cost of the items if removed the items could be sold for whatever the buyer is willing to pay. I for one dont want to be used in this way.

 

[youradhere4222]

Milton, I think if we don't get information now they will keep putting it off until they decide to abandon the plans. If they give us a date, then we'll have something to hold him to. This happened with the fourth year gift. They never told us an exact release date..this way they could delay it for as long as they wished with no strings attached. I think we're getting another "Maxis no date-no obligation deals."

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

If they give us a date, then we'll have something to hold him to.

[/ QUOTE ]

And that is exactly what he wants.

I hope you can see this as something totally different. We have never had someone this high up with EA come in and start talking about such radical design changes. I do not believe he is doing it just to pacify us. I do not believe he has put this much time into gathering our ideas just to say "nevermind". I believe this guy is the real deal.

That is what I believe. You are free to believe what you want.

 

[Guest]

I agree with Milton. Luc isn't a "them." He has so much power and freedom at EA, it is a little bit hard to come up with an apt analogy.

I don't think any of what he writes about or is thinking about will necessarily make it into the game. But I find it very exciting that someone of his level (both in the company and in sheer brain power) is thinking about the concepts of TSO.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Milton, I think if we don't get information now they will keep putting it off until they decide to abandon the plans. If they give us a date, then we'll have something to hold him to. This happened with the fourth year gift. They never told us an exact release date..this way they could delay it for as long as they wished with no strings attached. I think we're getting another "Maxis no date-no obligation deals."

[/ QUOTE ]

From past experience in general gaming, no single or even group of players/posters can "hold" a company or devs to anything.
Gamers never have that much power or influence....all you are likely to gain from a firm date for anything, in a game...online or off...is something else to be bitter about. Games and developers always march to thier own drums....not ours.

The biggest thrill here, is not the product (although, that would be way cool!), but the process.

It is a truly unique experience, to get to exchange ideas with such a primary developer. To know that *your* thoughts, ideas and analysis of a game and it's components, is being listened to and may have some influence on a future game....if not this one, possibly some variation, down the line.

We need to peel our noses off the tree trunks and step back far enough to see the whole forest....it is a stunning view!

 

[Guest]

Is the blog page showing up as "Page Not Found" for anyone else? I'm sure it's one of those Internet Explorer errors as I was there early this morning, but as of now it doesn't exist.

 

[Guest]

Its working fine for me.

Try this click me

Polly

 

[Guest]

Hmm...it's working now. It must have just been one of those IE 6 errors.

Thanks!

Nick

 

[Ryder]

For the person that said he had to look up a pic for himself on google... that is him..

http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/pc/simsonline/6.html

 

[imported_fajjaa]

I know that story is several years old, but I think people should read the entire story of the sims. Luc even makes a comment about where we are right now in the life span of the game. Gonna make you look for it. HEHE

There is even a comment about there being hundreds of hidden items on the cd, to be unlocked in the future. Hopefully Luc can make sense of the "bowl of spaghetti" and throw some of them at us occasionally.

 

[Guest]

Luc's ideas look more promising with every post.

Luc's New Post:

 

[imported_TheCookieFamily]

Okay, so I made an account on Luc's blog. I'm ValeriCookie on the blog! Oh, well, at least I will be. I still got to check my e-mail! But I'll provide some feedback, Luc. I'm feeling enthusiastic now, I can't just give up on The Sims Online! I don't know what I was thinking, to just completely abandon the thing that kept me in touch with some of the best friends I've ever met.

See ya, I'm off to go eat some fish-like food.

 

[Guest]

Clubs

Todays post.

 

[Sonic Sharp]

I was just looking through The Sims archive back from 1999, and I think I found some work that Luc has done. It is located at

http://thesims.ea.com/us/index.html?menu=news&amp;content=news/index.html

An interview can be found at

http://www.strategy-gaming.com/interviews/the_sims.shtml

I also found a letter from Luc to The Sims players at

http://thesims.ea.com/us/index.html?menu=news&amp;content=news/index.html

I also found a live chat with Luc. He should definitly have a live chat with us sometime.

http://thesims.ea.com/us/index.html?menu=news&amp;content=news/index.html

I also found a chat about custom content for The Sims 1 at

http://thesims.ea.com/us/index.html?menu=news&amp;content=news/index.html

I found all this interesting so I figured the rest of your guys might find it interesting information.

If you'd like you can check out the rest of The Sims arcive here it's pretty interesting stuff.

Anyways, it seems like Luc is a pretty important and famous guy! He is after all the General Manager of Maxis.

The one thing I don't understand is what happend to Maxis cause I'm pretty sure that Parizad said that EA Mythic took over Maxis or something like that.

Sonic

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

The clubs sound like an interesting idea too. I like how he keeps coming up with subjects to explore. Many ideas have been discussed several times over the years by players and yet some of these discussions are about things I've never even considered to be a possiblity in the sims. Regardless of whether anything happens from all of this, I'm finding it fun to read.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

The clubs sound like an interesting idea too. I like how he keeps coming up with subjects to explore. Many ideas have been discussed several times over the years by players and yet some of these discussions are about things I've never even considered to be a possiblity in the sims. Regardless of whether anything happens from all of this, I'm finding it fun to read.

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm not sure that the clubs idea has every been discussed. (At least not in that form.) It's nice to see someone is finally throwing some fresh ideas out there. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw one more dev at us with Luc giving out these ideas.

 

[trevor57]

why doesnt he get to work on some of these ideas rather then just constantly talking about new ones?

 

[Guest]

Sounds to me like hes working on a pretty big concept and that is filled up with lots of pieces. I for one really appreciate thats hes asking for input on all the pieces of the puzzle before he starts putting it together.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

why doesnt he get to work on some of these ideas rather then just constantly talking about new ones?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because if he sat in his office alone with the door closed and worked on them, people would complain they were never asked what they wanted?

 

[MandiK]

No matter what he talked about, worked on or did, SOMEONE is going to complain, probably more than one person. It doesnt matter, you cant please everyone because there will always be the complaint department who has a hard time being positive about anything.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Sounds to me like hes working on a pretty big concept and that is filled up with lots of pieces. I for one really appreciate thats hes asking for input on all the pieces of the puzzle before he starts putting it together.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ditto.

 

[Purdy]

Does anyone else get the 401 authorization problem logging into Luc's site. Sometimes I get the error and other times I have no problems. I get it even after I log in and try to read the posts. How do you fix this.

 

[Guest]

I get it now and again too. I usually just close it and start over - seems to work that way.

Polly

 

[Guest]

just hitting reply...

I just have to say this, get it off my mind I guess if you will. I love the idea of someone high up at EA actually caring about the future of our game, but... I would be a whole lot more impressed if he would go ahead and actually put some developers to work on our game now, as it is. We've got so many major problems going on. Free green didn't work right last time (never did happen in Test Center) and I'm wondering if we'll even get it for this Easter weekend. Sim move is wacky, along with name change. There seems to be alot more instability than normal logging into a city, and more errors once in even. Avatar leasing errors and more lag than normal, etc.

The over abundance of money is still out of control. Prices are still outrageous, the store/rare/tree collectors have most of the money in game now though I believe, so they can continue to buy up whatever is offered. I do like the fact that it's cutting down on the new sim fruitaholic addiction though, fruit prices are just crazy, I do believe it's called GREED.

The 4 year gift will never be delivered at this rate. It's not that I really care either, I won't even get my campfire till next month, if that is working, that is. I've seen posts that one year statues aren't working and haven't been for some time.

I just feel it's really time that if someone high up, Luc, oh LUC are you out there... if you really do care about the future of TSO, don't you think it could use a few developers working full time on it right now?

 

[Guest]

Some news on a potential new city ... very interesting

Polly

 

[MandiK]

WOW!!! I have been keeping up on the blog as much as possible, but I hadnt seen that! Getting close...

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Some news on a potential new city ... very interesting

Polly

[/ QUOTE ]

I've looked at his blog, I've read alot of it, yes it's very interesting, but the fact remains that the game we are paying to play today is messed up in many ways for many people, I would much rather hear things are being fixed than about a new city being formed. Is this the way that new city will be run down the line too, bugs galore and one part time developer to work on it?

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

<blockquote><hr>

Some news on a potential new city ... very interesting

Polly

[/ QUOTE ]

I've looked at his blog, I've read alot of it, yes it's very interesting, but the fact remains that the game we are paying to play today is messed up in many ways for many people, I would much rather hear things are being fixed than about a new city being formed. Is this the way that new city will be run down the line too, bugs galore and one part time developer to work on it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if our current cities' code is just too messed up to fix. Randy and Kyle mentioned in their posts how some of our TSO code is just jury-rigged Sims code that was rushed to make that Christmas launch deadline 4 years ago. As time has gone on and patches have been made to patches, I think we might be approaching a type of instability that isn't worth repairing.

Kinda like a rotten wall, where you can't take the old wallpaper off because it is all that is holding the wall together ... or at any rate, that's my guess. So with that mind set, I am very happy that Luc is puttering around doing anything at all. In my head, I call his project TSO, Back to the Future.

 

[Purdy]

Maybe thats what the new city is all about - fixing everything thats wrong with TSO. If the new city is better and less buggy maybe they will close all the old cities and start new. This will be the new and improved TSO

 

[Guest]

Cookie asked this in a different thread which has been directed to here .... and I think she's asked some good questions, so I'm copying her post here

<blockquote><hr>

Luc has confirmed that the game isn't going to be closed anytime soon by stating that there are DEFINATELY new features planned for a new city which will appear in the weeks to come. So, will you moving to the new city? If so, are you going to play the same way you always have, or are you going to take your game playing in a new direction? And, also, do you believe this new city will bring back the amazing, lively world it once was?

Lots of questions, and now that we know that the game will be getting some new additions, we should be wayy happy! Possibly custom content, a better economy, etc. It will be just like starting from scratch, how fun

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm excited about the opportunity to help test a new city, until its open I'm going to try and contain my excitement because strange things can happen in the land of sims ...

If and when it does open, then I'll be there as much as possible, at this stage its hard to decide on a direction of gamplay because we're not sure what features the city will have. I think at the beginning it will be more a question of testing rather than "living" there. I'm hoping to have fun trying to break things ... cos thats what testing is right? And yes I think the work that Luc and his team are doing has the potential to really turn the game around .... only time will tell, but what exciting times they are.

Polly

 

[MandiK]

Very exciting! And great post Cookie/Polly

I feel honored to be a part of this new city opening, this new TSO era we are getting so close to! I cant wait to see what new &amp; different things we get to try &amp; do!

 

[Guest]

Polly break stuff? say it isn't so !!!

Sounds like it will be fun and like she said it will depend on what is put into the new city... ummm like a roller coaster maybe? lol i keep hoping.

 

[Guest]

I think the stuff that goes (if it goes) into a new city won't be so excitingly glamorous as a rollercoaster. especially at first.

but i'm with polly - i want to break stuff. and nobody's given me anything to break in a long, long time.

 

[SnowCajun]

<blockquote><hr>

I think the stuff that goes (if it goes) into a new city won't be so excitingly glamorous as a rollercoaster. especially at first.

[/ QUOTE ]
I worry about a new city killing the old cities, even further ruining what's left of the game for all the older established Sims already in their cities where they've been for years and years. I agree it may be a good deal for the new players who have no hope of grabbing up the excess exploited monies EA left in the game, or the advantages many players have gained by having had, or still having those monies, but I think a new city may do more harm than good. I dunno, I guess we'll see, but our existing cities are so low in activity now that to pull large numbers of players out of them may be the fatal blow we've all been expecting anyway. I well remember the exodus to Dragons Cove only to see it die way down in popularity and the exodus of players back home again.

I personally feel to get more players together in the game a huge multi server merge would be the best idea, all cities into one so the game will be more like it was in it's glory days where there were tons of people on all the time and tons of things going on at all hours. Those were definately the good days and I honestly feel that'd bring more competition back into the game.

To me it seems eveytime we've had things in the game we've really enjoyed they were removed or changed in some way that took away the fun part of them! I loved the friendship balloons, though I wanted more than 10 for my inner circle, I remember most all of us asking them to give us more inner circle space, 20 or 30 or more, and then just remove the tagging aspect that seemed to upset so many players. Instead they removed the entire thing and now we're having to be hounded by the serenade artists on every property ... or hot kissed and proposed to just to quickly get our friendship links.

I remember the fun we used to have making Pizza in the old days. I partnered in AV with a gal named Noctivagant, and her second sim, we used to pizza all night trying to beat the most pizzas record in one green. Those were some of the best memories of mine ever from TSO, but that was killed when EA added in pizza penalties for making pizza's too fast, to see it rob us of our winnings was sickening, I can still remember our feelings when we first saw that happening. It totally destroyed the fun we had in doing pizza. I think mainly because the world associates a penalty with wrong doing and we'd done nothing wrong, and that's why it botherd us! The world applauds successful people, EA penalizes them. Noctivigant and I both said we'd rather have seen them cut the winnings amounts rather than to have to see them penalizing us for being good. Their doing that instantly killed the fun for us, we never pizza'd again after that, in fact Noctivigant left the game right after that was introduced! She was a great pizza leader but that killed her spirit and robbed her of her favorite part of the game.

Yes we still could have tried to beat our records, which I think was somewhere around 72 or 73 pizza's in one green, never the less to see the penalities keep popping up until we were making $0 for successful pizza's, and this was happening early on in the game before even half our green was gone, it just seemed offensive to see. Why do that to pizza income yet leave all the exploited money in the game now? Talk about backwards thinking!

I hope a new city will be the cure all you guys seem to think it will be. Personally I believe it'll only be a short lived thing. I'd rather see them fix what we've already well established here over the years. As for someone saying they'd gladly pay $20 bux a month if they'd just take care of the game the right way, I tend to agree with that myself, but at $10 bux a month we've only got like one and a half programmers looking after things.. I think $20 bux a month should be worth more than just three programmers. After seeing the amounts of players Luc's blog showed to us were still in the game, I think the money we pay should definately be bringing us more benefit than what we're receiving. Just my 2cents.. but that's how I see things.

 

[imported_TheCookieFamily]

Snow you have a good point...but what if the features in the new city got put into the old cities? I think "City of Experimentation" is like BetaVille - it introduces totally new concepts. While Test Cneter is for some big additions, like spot lights and Where Am I button, there needs to be new city to see player feedback. Over time, the new city's feature's will be tested in Test Center, and finally in existing cities.

That is just what I think is the best option. People don't want to move from the smaller cities and not too many people are willing to start all over again with their already established Sims. You must look t NewCity like this: It's TSO Beta Version 2. Because it's basically a tried and tested (well it works for the most part LOL) platform that can be improved upon drastically. The city's even going to have a schedule (just like beta cities) and I am guessing that is to see how many people are in the new city. I am not 100% sure but Luc makes it sound like such a big thing that is getting a lot of attention.

 

[Guest]

I don't know, I am so drawn with this idea. With any direction TSO heads in, really. You see, there are so many facets to the game that haven't truly been thought out. Over the years, we've only been playing fragments of a game - not an entire one.

We have spread out the population and game-play with so many of these 'ideas'. We've introduced Test Center, BetaVille, and Dragon's Cove, which have all spread out the population. We've introduced a rough design of a job system, introduced a rough design of shops/clothing, and really, a rough design with everything altogether. We have no incentive, however, to fulfill any of these 'fragments'.

For example, with jobs -- you can either physically be at your computer, clicking away trying to remain afloat on your quest to excel in the job tracks, or you can set your sim to can a few jams and leave your desk for a few minutes. What's shocking, is that for the most part, you make more simoleons while leaving your desk. Why, then, would people try to complete the job tracks other than nostalgic reasons? When it comes down to it, how many players both new and old would even want to bother with nostalgic motives? Not many.

You see, population really came down to everything in this game. It wasn't the features, or updates that kept this game afloat all these years. It's the people. MaxisLuc has realized wholeheartedly that this group of TSO players truly is exceptional. At this point in the lifespan of [a] game, normally with the set of circumstances we've been given, the game would have already been shut down long ago.

EA/Maxis failed to maintain the refer-a-friend program. They failed to remain consistent with an idea. They failed to doll out a properly structured game. They did, however, remain successful at conjuring the concept of the game as a whole - an online version. So many of us (if not all) remain extremely attached to the internet aspect of the game. Every month we dish out tens, if not more, to be among other players. THAT is the core of the game.

Had we still had a refer-a-friend program, we worked on a project in a linear fashion, this game would be soaring. We need to fix so many core concepts of this game, and I'm genuinely afraid it may very well be much too late, in the designing/staff sense. You see, in order to tie all of these incomplete ideas together, the game would require much staffing - we do not have that. Although Luc may be very driven behind this project, Will Wright/EA/Maxis may not be, for funding reasons.

We need to fix job tracks, we need to fix solo/group objects, we need to fix skilling, fix shops, fix the clothing aspect of the game, so on and so forth. Inevitably, we need to re-design the entire game. I'm afraid that we will not see any true success unless we finish these things first. Sure, bringing in custom content will drawn in many players, both new and old, but it can only last so long. The company can either hire many developers, fix the game how it should be, bring in custom content, prepare the game for new players, and see a long-term success, or they can have one developer bring new features, and see a slightly big boom only to see a downfall soon thereafter.

I genuinely hope they make the right decision.

 

[NightFlyer]

Well said. ^

 

[BeaverMon]

So this topic is all about economy for this new city. What about all the unfixed bugs still in the game, that haven't been fixed in YEARS?

Back in 2005, I decided to quit TSO for WoW because I was tired of "living in a 2D world".
But just this year I decided to come back, and a shock that the game hasn't been updated in over a year. Not even a bug fix.

Heck. I was even shocked to see the game still exists!

It saddens me to think that everyone at Maxis dissed TSO and jumped on the TS2 bandwagon. I was actually surprised people are STILL playing after all of these years, and I'm actually happy for them. Shows this game hasn't lost it's true, devoted fans.

But there's still bugs in this game that need to be fixed. Most are just annoyance bugs. Like the "can't put 2 endtables on both sides of the bed" bug that hasn't been fixed in years.

Another, very annoying and down right fustrating bug, is the lack in jobs being available on the computer and newspaper.
Yesterday, at home, I tried to get my roomie, Norb B, to get the Diner job so he can help me...and all dam day, it was "DJ, Dancer, Factory" in that order, on the Computer. It was driving me up the wall.
You should make them ALL available ANYTIME of the day! He had to actually go to several houses JUST to get the Diner job from their computers.

Another bug is the "Hide Under" queue cancel thing. It doesn't cancel the action from the queue until it gets to it's "doing" part in the action queue, having to hit OK and getting a "You can't reach object so you can't hide in it", when you made a mistake and don't WANT to hide under it.


You want to do something about TSO's economy, then how about raising the wages on jobs, to make them the same, if not better then group job objects?
I quit the Robot Factory job because it just wasn't cutting it for me. I seem to be making MORE money on the Diner job, even soloing.

There was a guy in this 1 house I was in. A skill house. And he suggested once you get to Level 10 in ANY job, you should get a reward. And this is a really good idea. Maybe like a statue of a Robot for the Robot Factory. Not to mention this will make jobs more favorable, and less of a chance to have to solo threw 4 rounds.

 

[imported_Gracie Nito]

Woohoo! Streaming music from internet radio even caught Luc's eye. I'm just thrilled he's actually contemplating new ides!

 

[DjMacDaddy01201]

Luc can you tell me are you working on this sims online game to make it better or a new sims as someone told me ?

 

[MandiK]

All questions &amp; comments aimed directly at Luc should go on Luc's blog itself. He doesn't post on this thread regularly

 

[DjMacDaddy01201]

I won't play in a new city till they fix all the bugs in the game and only if they plan on making the whole game better

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

* Rebuilding all the TSO pieces of code using the latest development environment. It was too unproductive for us to keep using the tools we had in 2001 (which were not even new then).
* Rebuilding the Server side of TSO so we can use Windows or Linux as the operating system.


[/ QUOTE ]

Luc wrote that in his blog today. They're going to try to fix the code! I could call each and every one of you and sing that on your voicemail, I'm so happy.

 

[MandiK]

Call me, I dont ever answer anyway. Voicemail is my friend, and to hear singing would be a breath of fresh air, lol.

 

[AeonaHeart]

Add all rare items to the catalog at high prices... I mean ALL rares...especially mystics. Pets too if possible. EVERYTHING. No annual gifts anymore. You want to give an annual gift? Give the gift of having TSO another year at all! Give ppl a free month of TSO for an annual gift. Also... raise prices in the catalog to reflect the true economy. Plz... someone... anyone at Maxis... take economics 101 at the local community college. And then get a chair and pull pets with 100 mil in your pocket and see how long it takes you to spend it. That'll stop that ridiculous idea that pet pullers should bear the brunt of all the money bug cheaters. I daresay if every sim that currently plays pulled 8 hours per day for a year that we'd even put a dent in the mountain of surplus simoleans currently being horded in game by players who do NOT pull pets. The only ppl who won't agree with this solution are the guilty and the tree hoggers. You know, tree hoggers: ppl who buy/steal/scam every tree they can put them on lots and then quit their rl jobs, refuse to sell a tree at any price and now charge 200k per fruit to their buddies the money buggers. Why don't you guys target the one's who caused this thing and stop yacking away about it all being so darn complicated. It's not complicated at all. Everyone backslid on fixing inflation for years now it's bit you in the behind and will tick off one group or another to fix. After all... the only way to stop dogs fighting over a bone is to take the bone away and bury it so deep they can't dig it up again. It's a wise idea.

 

[imported_MARCIN2006]

Their planing to do away with the buy mode and delete modes.

Which is a great idea because then the economy would never fall. People will be forced to keep trading money and stores will actually be stores with different prices and offer good deals!.

I love the junkyard thing.

 

[Guest]

<blockquote><hr>

Their planing to do away with the buy mode and delete modes.

Which is a great idea because then the economy would never fall. People will be forced to keep trading money and stores will actually be stores with different prices and offer good deals!.

I love the junkyard thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

<font color=00008B>What they should do is turn it off to every lot type but stores, increase the time inbetween allowed lot type changes, and randomly change which items are available for stores to buy.
</font color=00008B>