Define "Classic Shard"

[Heartseeker]

Darkfall isn't UO.

The people that want a Classic Shard are not the type that will quibble over everything.

That would be the item based, I need my fix right now group; basically most of the Stratics posters.

I know this by playing Classic Shards, not only EA ones.

Those Classic ones are about ten times as busy as Atlantic, and about hundred times busier than the regular ones.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Surgeries.

ps. Those shards also put how many players are on; not like EA who make it top secret.

 

[Surgeries]

Darkfall isn't UO.

The people that want a Classic Shard are not the type that will quibble over everything.

That would be the item based, I need my fix right now group; basically most of the Stratics posters.

I know this by playing Classic Shards, not only EA ones.

Those Classic ones are about ten times as busy as Atlantic, and about hundred times busier than the regular ones.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it Surgeries.

Oh...OK.

Wow...what a terrific rebuttal!!

Hey...here's a rebuttal to that rebuttal!!

All of the games like Runescape have WAY more players than UO does.

Maybe if we made UO like Runescape, we could be a Big Draw!!

Heartseeker...here is something to ruminate while you type

^^This^^ over and over:

Why IS there NO other game, like Classic UO? I mean...one that can actually produce Revenues? One that can actually produce revenues AND have just completely Non-Con PvP?

Why?

There really can only be a couple of answers, logically speaking:

1. There is no "Huge Market" for this...otherwise every single company in the friggin world would be making the games...don'tyathinktheresparky? But - there are extremely few games that have completely Non-Con PvP...very few indeed.

OR

2. The game was a draw when there was nothing else like it. As soon as ANYTHING else came along, people deserted "Classic UO" in droves for ANYTHING else. To the point that poorly done Trammel was introduced.

You can try to tell us all "well...EQ had special graphics...THAT'S why it did so well."

If EQ had Special Graphics AND Non-Con PvP then my guess is that ANYTHING OTHER than EQ AND UO would have been big hits...yes? This cannot be proven, but based on the staggeringly few games of this genre, when compared to "Doubling Subscriptions" for UO "If" they do a Classic Shard...well...it would seem to follow.

See how actual logic just pwns your

^^This^^

hands down?

Likely not...it's OK...I am very used to it with our "Classic Fanatic" in UHall.

LOLZ.

 

[wills]

The hyperbole from both sides is both hilarious and unhelpful; and honestly, I don't understand the passion from the anti-classic faction. Likely, the developers will never go forward with a classic shard if they feel like it will divert resources in a way that will damage the base game. So it seems pointless to argue.

There also seems to be a lot of argument about non-con pvp as though that would be all that a classic shard would be about. Again, I think this misses the point. The point is to return to a non-item driven, community-based game that isn't divided and diminished by having both Trammel and Felucca. Non-con pvp would be a part, sure. But let's not pretend like this is all the pro-classic faction is asking for, like everyone just wants to kill everything in sight. This has always been a minority, though, yes, a visible one.

And no, subscriptions numbers wouldn't double with a classic shard. And no, there are no games thriving in the old classic model. But Surgeries, I think you're misunderstanding the math that's likely at work here.

When these companies build games from the ground up, they're going to target what the majority wants, and that's, essentially, item-based, treasure-hunting gaming. But a classic shard wouldn't be from the ground up, and the numbers being looked at (if they're being looked at) would probably have to do with whether subscriptions could support and sustain such a shard, and maybe, just maybe, if things go well, get the game as a whole a bit of press, bring back some old players (like myself), and make a little money. No sane person expects a classic shard to rocket UO back to the top.

 

[Longest Journey]

Naked thieves knew the tactics people used against them. 1 thief stole the item knowing they would get whacked and the other waited to loot the item off their buddy. It was simple and effective and there was no protection save not going to the bank or ,as many people in those days did,(I know this because someone told me as you have already deduced I didn't play then) they had enough hiding on their character to bank in peace. They were a nuisance and provided nothing to the value of the game.

Yes, they knew the tactics.....avoid the naked guy......wow, such a hard tactic to come up with...... how did they ever think of it?

Simple and effective huh?

Youre assuming the other guy got to his buddies corpse first. Most of the time, considering how many other players would be scrambling to get to that grey corpse first, the other thief didnt manage to loot anything off of their partner because someone already looted it. I mean, come on, people were vultures back then. A grey corpse was a FFA of looting. And to have one in a heavily populated area like a bank? Come on, that little plan of loot your buddies corpse was about as stables and fool proof as a house of cards.

Hence, there was a substantial risk of failure on the thief's part. Odds were, someone else would get the swag before their partner could loot it.

Remember, the old stealing skill depended on three things:

#1.) How high your stealing skill was

#2.) How high your snooping skill was

#3.) The weight of the item you wanted to steal

Now, the real aggravating factor there was the weight of the item. Valuable things like magic weapons, armor and reagents (depending on how many were stacked) usually weighed about 4-6 stones. That decreased your chances to succed at stealing by 40-60%, depending on the number of stones the item weighed.

Then you'd have to factor in successful snoopings. When you failed at snooping, an alert message would appear in the corner of the screen for not only the person being snooped, but for everyone else around them. This told people, get ready, someone is going to be going grey soon. Easy loot.

The odds were stacked against thieves of all types, naked or genuine.

Those that played thieves absolutely loved them and had every right to. It was a plethera of noobs ripe for the picking. Nearly all the thieves playing then are just as fervent as you are about the times back then. They all proclaim it was easy to counter the thieves just as you do. If it was so easy to counter why were there so many of these types of thieves?

So many? Seriously, what sever did you play on? I played Atlantic, Catskills, and Chessapeak, and rarely did I encounter these nude thieves you claim overran the banks, even during peak hours and the weekends. I mean, yeah, there were some maybe 1 or 2 running around the bank. But they usually ended up dead or gave up after a while of getting smacked down by either the guards or other players.

As for why people played those kinds of thieves, thats simple, they were cowards. They thought it would be easy and soon learned otherwise. More often than not, all they got out of people were laughs and mocking comments....and in some cases dismemberment after they were dead.

It was a plethera of noobs ripe for the picking.

Noobs ripe for the picking? Wow, you must really have something against players from back then to assume thats all it was. That people just stood around letting themselves get stolen from and killed.

Just further proof, you have no idea how things worked back then.

 

[Longest Journey]

The hyperbole from both sides is both hilarious and unhelpful; and honestly, I don't understand the passion from the anti-classic faction. Likely, the developers will never go forward with a classic shard if they feel like it will divert resources in a way that will damage the base game. So it seems pointless to argue.

There also seems to be a lot of argument about non-con pvp as though that would be all that a classic shard would be about. Again, I think this misses the point. The point is to return to a non-item driven, community-based game that isn't divided and diminished by having both Trammel and Felucca. Non-con pvp would be a part, sure. But let's not pretend like this is all the pro-classic faction is asking for, like everyone just wants to kill everything in sight. This has always been a minority, though, yes, a visible one.

And no, subscriptions numbers wouldn't double with a classic shard. And no, there are no games thriving in the old classic model. But Surgeries, I think you're misunderstanding the math that's likely at work here.

When these companies build games from the ground up, they're going to target what the majority wants, and that's, essentially, item-based, treasure-hunting gaming. But a classic shard wouldn't be from the ground up, and the numbers being looked at (if they're being looked at) would probably have to do with whether subscriptions could support and sustain such a shard, and maybe, just maybe, if things go well, get the game as a whole a bit of press, bring back some old players (like myself), and make a little money. No sane person expects a classic shard to rocket UO back to the top.

Objective and well put. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Longest Journey]

Oh...OK.

Wow...what a terrific rebuttal!!

Hey...here's a rebuttal to that rebuttal!!

All of the games like Runescape have WAY more players than UO does.

Runescape's development team didnt make drastic overhauls to the game like EA did with UO.

Maybe if we made UO like Runescape, we could be a Big Draw!!

Heartseeker...here is something to ruminate while you type

^^This^^ over and over:

Why IS there NO other game, like Classic UO? I mean...one that can actually produce Revenues? One that can actually produce revenues AND have just completely Non-Con PvP?

Because its all about the bottom line. Every game company out there wants to be the next WoW. WoW is mainstream kid friendly gaming. UO was never meant to be mainstream. It was niche.

Why?

There really can only be a couple of answers, logically speaking:

1. There is no "Huge Market" for this...otherwise every single company in the friggin world would be making the games...don'tyathinktheresparky? But - there are extremely few games that have completely Non-Con PvP...very few indeed.


OR

2. The game was a draw when there was nothing else like it. As soon as ANYTHING else came along, people deserted "Classic UO" in droves for ANYTHING else. To the point that poorly done Trammel was introduced.


You can try to tell us all "well...EQ had special graphics...THAT'S why it did so well."

If EQ had Special Graphics AND Non-Con PvP then my guess is that ANYTHING OTHER than EQ AND UO would have been big hits...yes? This cannot be proven, but based on the staggeringly few games of this genre, when compared to "Doubling Subscriptions" for UO "If" they do a Classic Shard...well...it would seem to follow.

See how actual logic just pwns your

Again, its all about the bottom line. They all want to be the next WoW/EQ (same thing when you think about it) in the mainstream market. UO was a niche game that applied to a small selective playerbase. When EA/OSI decided to get greedy and try to make the game kid friendly when it originally wasnt meant to be, they alienated the niche players and ultimately signed UO's death warrant.

And that, people, is the true reason Trammel came about. It was nothing more than an attempt for EA/OSI to try and take a niche game and make it mainstream.

They failed..... horribly.

^^This^^

hands down?

Likely not...it's OK...I am very used to it with our "Classic Fanatic" in UHall.

LOLZ.

This is the type of person UO attracted after Trammel.....

I rest my case....

 

[phantus]

Yes, they knew the tactics.....avoid the naked guy......wow, such a hard tactic to come up with...... how did they ever think of it?

Now I'm beginning to think you didn't play back then. I played on GL and Chessy. Moonglow being my bank of choice. There were thieves all over the bank. Avoiding something that was intent on you as a target was not possible if you didn't hide or if you wanted to continue and actually bank.

There were plenty of people at the bank and all could loot those grey ffa corpses. Not everyone was paying attention and the 2 working together knew exactly when the deed was going down and had the advantage and only a moron would think anyone could loot them. Thieves used the snooping fail to their advantage. They didn't give a crap if that message was being broadcast they went from person to person and failed to peek at them. Whether or not they tried to get something was dependant on the loot in their pack. Blah blah snooping in blah blah pack was a constant stream of spam and anyone playing then knows what I'm talking about. Except, of course, you and all the people who want to play their thief like that again.

You have kind of disappointed me with the pro thief propoganda. You haven't even mentioned stacking things on top of things you want to protect. Not that it was foolproof. I knew how to overcome it so I'm pretty sure all the leg humpers did as well. That is usually a staple of any old school thieving advocate. All the way to protect yourself from thieves were a pile of crap except for one. When you could open a box and place your goods in them then lock the box it was safe if it was over 10 stones. They patched the ability to do that however.

Next chapter please.

 

[Surgeries]

The hyperbole from both sides is both hilarious and unhelpful; and honestly, I don't understand the passion from the anti-classic faction. Likely, the developers will never go forward with a classic shard if they feel like it will divert resources in a way that will damage the base game. So it seems pointless to argue.

There also seems to be a lot of argument about non-con pvp as though that would be all that a classic shard would be about. Again, I think this misses the point. The point is to return to a non-item driven, community-based game that isn't divided and diminished by having both Trammel and Felucca. Non-con pvp would be a part, sure. But let's not pretend like this is all the pro-classic faction is asking for, like everyone just wants to kill everything in sight. This has always been a minority, though, yes, a visible one.

And no, subscriptions numbers wouldn't double with a classic shard. And no, there are no games thriving in the old classic model. But Surgeries, I think you're misunderstanding the math that's likely at work here.

When these companies build games from the ground up, they're going to target what the majority wants, and that's, essentially, item-based, treasure-hunting gaming. But a classic shard wouldn't be from the ground up, and the numbers being looked at (if they're being looked at) would probably have to do with whether subscriptions could support and sustain such a shard, and maybe, just maybe, if things go well, get the game as a whole a bit of press, bring back some old players (like myself), and make a little money. No sane person expects a classic shard to rocket UO back to the top.

Fair enough.

I say if it's good for the game, go for it.

If the current developers and Producers think it is the way to go, no one, and I mean no one, knows better than they do.

After all..they actually have data, not dreams and faint memories colored by what one really likes, or wants to remember.

So far, for 10 years since Trammel came out, my memories seem to be right on queue, and the math speaks for itself.

So far, not desirable, nor profitable looking, from an ROI perspective, to pursue.

Should that perspective change, and it helps UO, I am all for it, 100%.

I won't play the shard, but I don't play Siege, either.

And look how well that one has done.

But again, you could be dead right, and they could be developing the shard for folks as we speak.

Again, for me, bottom line is: If it works and brings in subs without hurting the rest of the game, I say awesome.

Otherwise, case rested...for now.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

2 naked thieves could take anything they wanted and bank them if they worked together

Had to ask...

Did you know Ton Loc and Grady on Atlantic as well

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

2. The game was a draw when there was nothing else like it. As soon as ANYTHING else came along, people deserted "Classic UO" in droves for ANYTHING else. To the point that poorly done Trammel was introduced.

And there is the TRUTH.

I loved Classic UO..."Real" UO, but those days are gone...and they won't come back.

RIP Ultima Online ... and RIP Origin. They created worlds.


And those worlds are dead.

 

[Heartseeker]

2. The game was a draw when there was nothing else like it. As soon as ANYTHING else came along, people deserted "Classic UO" in droves for ANYTHING else. To the point that poorly done Trammel was introduced.

And there is the TRUTH.

I loved Classic UO..."Real" UO, but those days are gone...and they won't come back.

RIP Ultima Online ... and RIP Origin. They created worlds.


And those worlds are dead.

Wrong!

Only on EA Shards. Other places are still thriving.

Btw, the shard I play on has a large guild called....PoV.

Maybe some of your guild buddies.

 

[Unsatisfied]

And there is the TRUTH.

I loved Classic UO..."Real" UO, but those days are gone...and they won't come back.

RIP Ultima Online ... and RIP Origin. They created worlds.


And those worlds are dead.

What happened to you? You were defending the idea of a classic shard and talking about how much it would help UO. Then your view flipped in an instant, all of a sudden its, you know what UO is dead and there will never be classic uo again.

 

[Evlar]

Phantus - The emotive and sometimes downright rude responses you've made towards other posters about thieves in "classic" UO, seems to suggest that this was obviously a very big issue for you and your playing experience. Suffice it to say, that it's one aspect of a "classic" UO experience, where people's own experiences differ.

Rather than the bickering and insinuations, why don't we simply agree to disagree? I and a couple of other posters feel theives weren't an overbearing issue, whilst you've made it clear why you feel they were. All opinions when all's said and done. The sentiment of those opinions is neither right nor wrong.

I believe where we do agree, is that where good, well thought out changes could have been implemented to resolve genuinely troubling issues, adding better balance to the game, they were often rushed and inconsidered sweeping changes.

I perhaps chose to focus on the thief skill, as one example of a skill that's pretty much rendered useless and has little point to include in the modern character template. This is much how I see the evolution of the blacksmith, the tailor these days. They're nothing less than "support" for imbuing.

Let's leave it at that.

Certainly the key aspect of a "classic" shard that seems to unite those in favour of such a project, is a return to the simplicity of non-uber user created/crafted items. In short, a game based more on skill, character development and roleplay, than the current item based frenzy that seems to be the heart of "modern" UO.

As I believe I mentioned in another post somewhere, other games appear to be "level" based grinds. UO seems to me to be an item based grind, where instead of grinding to reach a certain level, to reach parity with even moderately successful players, it's a grind to gain items, rather than the more free-flowing environment I enjoyed more of years gone by.

In any online game where human users are involved, it's inevitable there will be rotten apples who's sole source of pleasure, is to cause others displeasure, to cheat or look for the minimum effort route. Such is life. Those kinds of players will always be around. A good classic shard would learn the lessons of the past, then hopefully implement the right changes and balance, instead of sweeping and ill-concieved changes we've witnessed over the years.

 

[Trebr Drab]

And there is the TRUTH.

I loved Classic UO..."Real" UO, but those days are gone...and they won't come back.

RIP Ultima Online ... and RIP Origin. They created worlds.


And those worlds are dead.

What happened to you? You were defending the idea of a classic shard and talking about how much it would help UO. Then your view flipped in an instant, all of a sudden its, you know what UO is dead and there will never be classic uo again.

I imagine that Morgana, like others, have lost any faith at all that they'll do it, or do it right without compromising the entire idea. I have very strong doubts that they'll do it at all, or that we'll see anything about it for a year or so. It'll most likely be another one of those strung out things that wet our appetites, and some Devs want to do, but never get the go ahead or support from the bean counters.

 

[phantus]

Phantus - The emotive and sometimes downright rude responses you've made towards other posters about thieves in "classic" UO, seems to suggest that this was obviously a very big issue for you and your playing experience. Suffice it to say, that it's one aspect of a "classic" UO experience, where people's own experiences differ.

Indeed.

The rest of your words are crunchy and delicious. I have enjoyed them.

 

[Longest Journey]

Now I'm beginning to think you didn't play back then. I played on GL and Chessy. Moonglow being my bank of choice. There were thieves all over the bank. Avoiding something that was intent on you as a target was not possible if you didn't hide or if you wanted to continue and actually bank.

And the fact that you keep exaggerating how many thieves were around the banks tells me youre did not play before trammel and are nothing more than another trammie spreading more phatom tales.

You werent the only one who played Chessapeak. I banked at moonglow, got stolen from there once, and that was on Atlantic shard. My Chessapeak characters never got stolen from there. So either you had a thief who was targeting you specifically, or youre just blowing the one time you got stolen from out of proportion because you lacked the maturity of handling it.

Based on how you have presented your case, its clear that it is more the latter than the former.

There were plenty of people at the bank and all could loot those grey ffa corpses. Not everyone was paying attention and the 2 working together knew exactly when the deed was going down and had the advantage and only a moron would think anyone could loot them. Thieves used the snooping fail to their advantage. They didn't give a crap if that message was being broadcast they went from person to person and failed to peek at them. Whether or not they tried to get something was dependant on the loot in their pack. Blah blah snooping in blah blah pack was a constant stream of spam and anyone playing then knows what I'm talking about. Except, of course, you and all the people who want to play their thief like that again.

Youre assuming I even played a thief. Didnt interest me. I got better loot off of monsters, from dungeon chests, and off of the corpses of people who attacked me. Not to mention my fisherman who fished up enough SOS chests to keep me and my vendor shop supplied with enough magic gear that focusing on stealing would have been a waste of my time.

But, of course, flailing accusations that I played a thief shows how much you are floundering and grasping at straws to try and find a vaild reason to oppose a classic shard.

Also, considering the fact that youre the only one using the bull-plop argument of "naked thieves terrorizing the town", shows youre a lair, plain and simple.

You have kind of disappointed me with the pro thief propoganda.

Pro-Thief? Where in my posts have I been pro-thief? Thus far Ive called them cowards and said that stealing in such a manner yeilded pitiful results.

What? Because I said they weren't the uber rampaging boogey-men you claim them to be? Thats not being pro-thief, thats just stating a fact that you keep trying to disprove, when any veteran will tell you, you have no clue what youre talking about.

You haven't even mentioned stacking things on top of things you want to protect. Not that it was foolproof. I knew how to overcome it so I'm pretty sure all the leg humpers did as well. That is usually a staple of any old school thieving advocate. All the way to protect yourself from thieves were a pile of crap except for one. When you could open a box and place your goods in them then lock the box it was safe if it was over 10 stones. They patched the ability to do that however.

The only thing I ever covered was my house key with a shield or a backback. Other than that, never needed to cover items. Of course, I never really carried anything on me I couldnt afford to lose or replace. Another great way to counter a thief, dont give them anything worth stealing. And if I did, I moved quickly and banked the item right away. Then again, I was rarely every stolen from.

When I was on with my mage, I magic trapped my reagent pouch. Didnt see you mention that one. Forget that one, veteran?

Next chapter please.

Such cockyness for someone with a weak argument. Having to resort to arrogant posturing in an inept attempt at intimidation, a clear sign of a hollow defense.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

What happened to you? You were defending the idea of a classic shard and talking about how much it would help UO. Then your view flipped in an instant, all of a sudden its, you know what UO is dead and there will never be classic uo again.

I just read enough "I don't want a classic shard because I am worried that some how I might get PK'ed on my regular shard" B.S. to just get fed up with the whole mess.

Don't you guys get it? A Classic Shard would fail because the majority of current UO players care absolutely nothing about realism, nothing about community, nothing about challenge...they only care about hording "rare" and "uber" items, being safe in all situations, and making absolutely sure that anyone that doesn't want those things can go sod off.

A Classic pre-Tram shard would only be home to Fel players. The majority of which are only interested in PvP. That is not what Classic UO was. Classic UO was a blend of people that wanted to explore the world, and do their thing, and a group of people that sought to kill those people. Without one, the other is useless.

The beauty of Classic UO is that it was a more realistic world. There were good players, bad players, thieves, and no one was 100 percent safe all of the time.

UO now is like the ball pin at McDonald's...lot's of colorful cheap plastic, the vague smell of urine, and no one ever really gets hurt.

And Heartseeker, I am pretty sure that the PoV on that freeshard are not the PoV of Atlantic. I'd have to get in touch with some old timers, but I haven't heard of any of them playing on freeshards.

 

[Heartseeker]

What happened to you? You were defending the idea of a classic shard and talking about how much it would help UO. Then your view flipped in an instant, all of a sudden its, you know what UO is dead and there will never be classic uo again.

I just read enough "I don't want a classic shard because I am worried that some how I might get PK'ed on my regular shard" B.S. to just get fed up with the whole mess.

Don't you guys get it? A Classic Shard would fail because the majority of current UO players care absolutely nothing about realism, nothing about community, nothing about challenge...they only care about hording "rare" and "uber" items, being safe in all situations, and making absolutely sure that anyone that doesn't want those things can go sod off.

A Classic pre-Tram shard would only be home to Fel players. The majority of which are only interested in PvP. That is not what Classic UO was. Classic UO was a blend of people that wanted to explore the world, and do their thing, and a group of people that sought to kill those people. Without one, the other is useless.

The beauty of Classic UO is that it was a more realistic world. There were good players, bad players, thieves, and no one was 100 percent safe all of the time.

UO now is like the ball pin at McDonald's...lot's of colorful cheap plastic, the vague smell of urine, and no one ever really gets hurt.

And Heartseeker, I am pretty sure that the PoV on that freeshard are not the PoV of Atlantic. I'd have to get in touch with some old timers, but I haven't heard of any of them playing on freeshards.

Well not only PoV but many of the other guilds you mentioned: Covetous Crew and some others.

I even herd that LoD, infamous Baja guild is playing on one these free shards.

Seems like some of the old pvper's are coming out again.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

Lemme guess...

Lords of Darkness, hehe

You tell em Morg !

 

[Heartseeker]

Lemme guess...

Lords of Darkness, hehe

You tell em Morg !

Lords of Death actually...

 

[Unsatisfied]

I just read enough "I don't want a classic shard because I am worried that some how I might get PK'ed on my regular shard" B.S. to just get fed up with the whole mess.

Don't you guys get it? A Classic Shard would fail because the majority of current UO players care absolutely nothing about realism, nothing about community, nothing about challenge...they only care about hording "rare" and "uber" items, being safe in all situations, and making absolutely sure that anyone that doesn't want those things can go sod off.

A Classic pre-Tram shard would only be home to Fel players. The majority of which are only interested in PvP. That is not what Classic UO was. Classic UO was a blend of people that wanted to explore the world, and do their thing, and a group of people that sought to kill those people. Without one, the other is useless.

The beauty of Classic UO is that it was a more realistic world. There were good players, bad players, thieves, and no one was 100 percent safe all of the time.

UO now is like the ball pin at McDonald's...lot's of colorful cheap plastic, the vague smell of urine, and no one ever really gets hurt.

And Heartseeker, I am pretty sure that the PoV on that freeshard are not the PoV of Atlantic. I'd have to get in touch with some old timers, but I haven't heard of any of them playing on freeshards.

I see your point about the one not being the same without the other,

the classic shard wont compare to what it was, I believe it will probably be pvp skewed, but I'm okay with that, it will bring back a lot of players who want that style and I hope a few players from "the other side" who arnt massive pvpers, BUT who want to play for either the same reasons they once did, or to experience what it was like if they didnt play back then... And for these reasons I guess I will support the idea of a classic shard and try to get my view across as much as I can untill it is either done, or shut down by someone in charge.