Classic shard.

[Ray_]

It will be a close to 100% PvP shard. I don't see many current PvM'ers coming to a shard like that. But that's okay...because honestly, those people never wanted to play the same game that we wanted to play. Like Llewen said, they have choices now, and they are not going to choose a Classic Shard.

Remember that PvP costs money - lots of it, sometimes. There will be plenty of PvE going on, especially if city vendors are accurate and don't have infinite cash. Gotta make money somehow.

And, speaking for myself and lots of people I know/knew, we didn't just PvP! I remember having a t-hunter that was a decently fun way of making cash. I also had a 7x crafting mule that I ran a shop with. Even after UO:R made me filthy rich (for the era, anyway) in the Trammel landrush, I still played those characters and others like them.
The PvPer who only ever PvPed was a rarity. On this shard, with no "old money", such a player will be almost non-existent.

It's not going to be a giant PvP deathmatch 24/7, I don't think.

So...chin up

So...for all the PKs looking to come back, you should understand that what you are coming back to is going to be a much more PvP oriented environment...so don't count on griefing and preying on sheep.

Exactly! This is why I'd prefer no statloss, actually, even though I understand and agree with the need for a penalty for unwarranted killing.
Hopefully this point helps you understand why I was so fervently against the idea of statloss on death?

With that said, I am now doubtful how much I would actually enjoy the shard. I would play there, and I would probably never play 'new UO' again, but I know now that I won't get what I was looking for out of a Classic Shard either.

You can't ever relive your first time, but that doesn't mean the times after that can't be great experiences too.

 

[Ray_]

This shard will be full of tank mages and disarm thieves. It's gonna be great!

There was no disarm special move pre-UO:R.

 

[fantasy10k]

Rather want a Pub 15 shard then t2a,but everything before AoS was mostly good, so gief plx!

 

[Unsatisfied]

Ok, I have been keeping track of this thread, but I haven't read everyone's posts thoroughly, and generally when people start getting nasty, I lose interest. So if I just repeat what others have said, please accept my apologies ahead of time, and I will be re-emphasizing something I have already posted.

It seems to me that there is a fundamentally flawed assumption at the base of all this discussion about pk'ing. It appears to me that people in this thread actually think that a classic shard, or shards, are going to replace, and/or do away with the game that is played on the regular production shards. This is not going to happen folks.

It seems to me that you all are trying to think of ways to protect the "sheep" that are going to flock to the classic shard. In my opinion, this is not going to happen. A classic shard is going to be frequented primarily by people who have good memories of the "old days" in UO, and some of the curious, or those that get talked in to checking it out by friends.

The sheep that played UO in the old days, those tens of thousands of victims who gladly flocked to Trammel when it opened, are never going to make a classic shard their home, and for the most part they don't even exist anymore. You don't need to worry about trying to protect them, because they aren't going to make an appearance. You need to worry more about keeping your classic shard true to the era that so many have fond memories of.

If you start messing around with pvp switches, excessive penalties for pk'ing, and/or specialized pvp zones, you are going to destroy the very thing that will attract your target audience. Let me repeat myself. You don't need to worry about protecting the sheep, because there aren't going to be any sheep on a "classic" shard, any more than there are sheep on Siege Perilous.

There are so many options for the sheep out there that simply weren't there in the early years of UO's life. And I expect most of them are far more attractive to sheep than a "classic" era UO shard. All kinds of MMO's with pvp switches, dedicated arenas for pvp, servers with pvp rule sets, and servers without them.

I was a communications major in university, and one of the things that gets drummed into you in communications studies is that you need to understand your target audience. That is something that all of you advocating for a classic shard need to take to heart. Your target audience isn't the sheep.

Your target audience is people who have good memories of the pre-Trammel days in UO, their friends and a few that will have their curiosity piqued by what they have read of the old days in UO. Unlike the old days in UO most of these people are people who have likely been playing MMO's for at least ten years. These people are gamers that love pvp, or at the very least a world built around pvp, and who are far more sophisticated when it comes to their knowlege of computers, and MMO's than we all were back in those days. And they all have strong opinions.

These are likely people who were power gamers back in those days, but who now have a decade of experience to add on top of that. They all have computers and connections that are much more powerful and faster than what was available back then. These are not sheep, and they don't need to be protected from the big bad pk wolves.

Ugh, wish I would have read this before posting my reply above.

Exactly what I was trying say, but much better put!

One of the best posts I've read in this thread. This is on the money

 

[Kaleb]

Keep in mind it doesn't matter if new players come for the shard, though the promotion can spark interest into UO, But attracting those who have quit due to is just as good it still equals players coming in, revenue. If the shard was created it would bring in enough to make it profitable, more than maybe 1/2 of the shards with todays setup, if funds were based on population.

 

[Coldren]

Because, as I outlined above, it will NOT be the exact same conditions. The server rules may be the exact same, but the player population will be COMPLETELY different this time around.

Can you honestly say you believe the same EXACT population that was around in 1999 will be around for a classic shard?

It's ludicrous to believe that the majority of players on a new classic shard would be in favor of Trammel. It just doesn't make any sense.

I've pretty much stopped participating in this thread, but I'll leave one more comment for this.

There will still be sheep - Just not the same type of sheep. You know who the new sheep will be? The people who THINK they want to be PK'ers in a classic shard, those who THINK they are bad mofo's out for blood and totally l337, get their ass handed to them repeatedly, and then leave. Just like when Felucca was created by the split. The only people left there were people who WANTED to PvP, and were good at it. Suddenly, when there were no more easy kills, only other people who beat them down, Trammel and other games didn't seem so bad.

So you are absolutely right, and I was wrong. The conditions are different. People think this is what they want, or they're interested in checking it out. What I have been worried about, THE ONLY THING I've worried about from the start is the retention rate.

So yes, those same sheep will not be returning... But new sheep WILL be made.

In the end, this is all hot air anyway. I don't really care what form it comes in - I'd play whatever they gave us.

But if I were a betting man, I'd never put money on them actually releasing one. Hell, I'd be more inclined to believe they'd either shut down the game or make a real sequel before they ever released a "Classic" shard.. I'd be happy if I was wrong, but I don't think I am. EA also mentioned a classic DAoC server.. Yeah, that got about as far as this has.

 

[Guido_LS]

Then why in the blue hells should we pay attention to anyone from that era that has quit, and now wants to come back and re-create the EXACT SAME FAILURE?

It was only a failure for some people - the people that wanted Trammel. For the population that was happy with how UO was pre-UO:R, the game was awesome.
Guess who a classic shard would target? Hint: it's not the people that wanted Trammel.

By your logic, opening a classic server would be pointless - everyone from the classic days is through with UO - your words... so why would they, or you, care if there were some slight alterations from an exact time frame?

Those aren't my words at all. I and they care because they liked UO how it was.

That was a really poor post, dude.
I'd encourage you to put a little bit more effort in, like actually getting a quote correct when trying to use my own words against me.

Man, you're sort of ignoring one giant flaw in your argument (and so are most everyone else, so this isn't personal!):

The population on a classic shard WILL be different from the 1999 UO population.

You can't say that people will leave because of griefers and PKs because you don't know who will be on the shard in the first place. We can all guess, but I'd be pretty confident in saying that people that left in '98-'99 are pretty much ??? with UO, period.

The bolded question marks are mine - you had nothing typed there. But the person with just average intelligence would have to guess you meant to either type in the word done or finished there.

And it's hard to interpret that as anything but what was in my initial post.

Oh, and for the sake of clarity - it wasn't a failure for those that wanted Trammel - it was a failure for those of us that wanted a single landmass, as it was pre-UO:R - those that wanted Trammel were, and still are, for that matter, quite happy, and not currently begging the dev team for a classic server.

And maybe, just maybe, there should be some thought into trying to attract the Trammel crowd to a classic server - let them experience what life used to be like.... not everyone has played this game that long. Either they like it or they don't - but at least it wouldn't be exclusionary.

 

[Bc-]

Llewn makes good points, there were still a lot of Roleplayers and merchants on SP, but the sheep, those clueless newbs in the dungeons that got farmed... they weren't there.

That is why SP was so much fun, it truly was a veteran experience. I expect a Classic shard to also be a veteran experience, and I also forget that many of the RP guilds I fought back in the day were not one sided fights, these aren't nancies that can't handle their own but actual PvPers.

Totally right, we need to stop worrying about the sheep that just won't be there and focus on the active player base that will. Build it and they will come sort of thing, you can't convince people to play on a server like this, they either want to or they don't. It really is that simple and I am glad our eyes have been opened.

 

[Kaivan]

No, no, no! No special hits!

The UO:R changes to combat were horrendously damaging to PvP and were complained about in PvP circles more than Trammel.

Just to point out a couple of things about UOR PvP, the special hits themselves and other changes may have been considered damaging (in some cases I can absolutely agree with it), but there were many other additions that allowed for a much larger variety of templates to be used. On top of that, there was a major combat fix that was introduced with UOR that basically took a glaring problem with the way swings were handled and fixed it. The reality is that a good majority of the changes were very beneficial to PvP on the whole, and it's a matter of knowing which ones added variety or fixes problems versus the ones that stifled specific templates.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Ok, I have been keeping track of this thread, but I haven't read everyone's posts thoroughly, and generally when people start getting nasty, I lose interest. So if I just repeat what others have said, please accept my apologies ahead of time, and I will be re-emphasizing something I have already posted.

It seems to me that there is a fundamentally flawed assumption at the base of all this discussion about pk'ing. It appears to me that people in this thread actually think that a classic shard, or shards, are going to replace, and/or do away with the game that is played on the regular production shards. This is not going to happen folks.

It seems to me that you all are trying to think of ways to protect the "sheep" that are going to flock to the classic shard. In my opinion, this is not going to happen. A classic shard is going to be frequented primarily by people who have good memories of the "old days" in UO, and some of the curious, or those that get talked in to checking it out by friends.

The sheep that played UO in the old days, those tens of thousands of victims who gladly flocked to Trammel when it opened, are never going to make a classic shard their home, and for the most part they don't even exist anymore. You don't need to worry about trying to protect them, because they aren't going to make an appearance. You need to worry more about keeping your classic shard true to the era that so many have fond memories of.

If you start messing around with pvp switches, excessive penalties for pk'ing, and/or specialized pvp zones, you are going to destroy the very thing that will attract your target audience. Let me repeat myself. You don't need to worry about protecting the sheep, because there aren't going to be any sheep on a "classic" shard, any more than there are sheep on Siege Perilous.

There are so many options for the sheep out there that simply weren't there in the early years of UO's life. And I expect most of them are far more attractive to sheep than a "classic" era UO shard. All kinds of MMO's with pvp switches, dedicated arenas for pvp, servers with pvp rule sets, and servers without them.

I was a communications major in university, and one of the things that gets drummed into you in communications studies is that you need to understand your target audience. That is something that all of you advocating for a classic shard need to take to heart. Your target audience isn't the sheep.

Your target audience is people who have good memories of the pre-Trammel days in UO, their friends and a few that will have their curiosity piqued by what they have read of the old days in UO. Unlike the old days in UO most of these people are people who have likely been playing MMO's for at least ten years. These people are gamers that love pvp, or at the very least a world built around pvp, and who are far more sophisticated when it comes to their knowlege of computers, and MMO's than we all were back in those days. And they all have strong opinions.

These are likely people who were power gamers back in those days, but who now have a decade of experience to add on top of that. They all have computers and connections that are much more powerful and faster than what was available back then. These are not sheep, and they don't need to be protected from the big bad pk wolves.

Ugh, wish I would have read this before posting my reply above.

Exactly what I was trying say, but much better put!

One of the best posts I've read in this thread. This is on the money

I don't see that at all. This "target audience" is nothing new. PVPers with an unhealthy dose of PKers turning a game, server, or shard into nothing more than gank squads and king of the hill game play.

Trying to redefine "sheep" into a narrow subset doesn't work either.

So your claims are that this "classic" shard should be for all those few who want this sort of game falls empty. It's been tried and failed time and time again, in early UO, AC's Darktide server, Shadowbane, Darkfall, UO's Felucca, and several other less well known games such as Dransic.

Meanwhile, you ignore all the players who liked UO but left because the PKing and grief was out of hand. You're also ignoring many gamers who talk about such a game, but can't find it anywhere. Newer gamers who are tired of WoW and all the other EQ clones. Gamers who want a world to interact in, like UO, without all the grinding. A game world where they can play at trades and politics and all sorts of social mechanisms while exploring for discoveries.

This is what UO can do with a "classic based" shard. An altogether different playing experience, similar to what UO used to be, minus all the grief on grief on grief, and based on social building. This is the kind of game where player built cities can thrive. Where players can make a name for themselves as tradesmen. Where players can war with meaning yet not have all the griefer crap. A game where casual players can thrive too.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

It is pretty clear to me that you weren't in the PvP scene... what's "pretty clear" to be could quite possibly be completely wrong

And it is, very wrong.

I started PvPing in UO on the second day it was live...not necessarily because I wanted to at that time. (and not as Morgana!)

What I actually wasn't into was PKing. In fact, I was polar opposite. In the second month of the game, I founded the Protectors of Virtue along with 2 friends. As the Guild Leader of PoV, I made it our business to protect players from PKs.

Once UO:R came out, I didn't see the purpose of PvPing any longer other than to defend myself and my Guild when recalling to my house or my Guild Tower.

So when you say I wasn't in the PvP scene...you would be right if you are talking about post-Trammel...but before Trammel, PvP was UO to me.

 

[Evlar]

the truth shall come out of the mouth of the kids...

it's... the prophecy....

BRITANNIA HAVE DISOWNED THE COMPANIONS !!!

I like people who make me feel normal

Erm... amidst all the "debate" and arguments... Ahuaeyjnkxs has made some of the sanest comments here.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Just to point out a couple of things about UOR PvP, the special hits themselves and other changes may have been considered damaging (in some cases I can absolutely agree with it), but there were many other additions that allowed for a much larger variety of templates to be used. On top of that, there was a major combat fix that was introduced with UOR that basically took a glaring problem with the way swings were handled and fixed it. The reality is that a good majority of the changes were very beneficial to PvP on the whole, and it's a matter of knowing which ones added variety or fixes problems versus the ones that stifled specific templates.

Excellent points!

As much as I personally decry UO:R as the spawn of Satan, I must admit, a few of the PvP changes were rather interesting. I think, based solely one what I remember from the time, that a lot of those changes were added to help to entice players to get involved in PvP (while they essentially turned off PvP simultaneously...go figure).

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I think I can say with a degree of certainty that we have more or less arrived at a consensus regarding penalties for PKs...right?

- Stat Loss on ressurection, not death
- No use of towns other than Buc's Den
- NPC won't deal with reds
- Reds can only ressurect via players and the Chaos Shrine

Basically, the "Classic" penalties.

Did I leave anything out?

Also, have we sorted the issue of UO:R combat changes?

For those that don't know what those are:

Lumberjacking and Axes
The lumberjacking skill will provide a bonus to damage when the player is using one of the following axes. The higher the characters lumberjacking skill the more damage they will do up to a 25% bonus for 99.9 lumberjacking. At Grandmaster lumberjacking, the damage bonus is 35%.
•Axe
•Battle Axe
•Double Axe
•Executioner’s Axe
•Hatchet
•Large Battle Axe
•Two-handed Axe
Two-handed Weapons
Any melee weapon that requires two hands to wield will gain a special attack. The type of special attack will depend on the type of weapon used. These special attacks will only work against player characters, not against monsters or animals.
•Mace Weapon: Crushing blow, a hit for double damage. Only applies to true maces, not staves.
•Sword Weapon: Concussion blow, victim’s intelligence is halved for 30 seconds. Note the effects of a concussion blow are not cumulative, once a target is the victim of a concussion blow, they cannot be hit in that manner again for 30 seconds.
•Fencing Weapon: Paralyzing blow, victim is paralyzed for 4 seconds. Once paralyzed, the victim cannot fight back (s/he wont auto-defend) or cast spells, however s/he can still use potions and bandages. The paralysis will not break by any means, even if the victim takes damage. Once paralyzed, the victim cannot be paralyzed again with another special attack until the paralysis wears off.
Upon a successful hit, there will be a small chance to inflict one of the special attacks. The base chance to inflict one of the special attacks is 20%. A high intelligence will give a small bonus towards the chance to execute a special attack up to a total chance of 30%.

Maces
The bonus for damaging armor and lowering stamina will now be restricted to the following mace weapons:
•Mace
•War Mace
•War Hammer
•War Axe
•Hammer Pick
•Club
•Maul
Wands, staves, and smith hammers will not damage armor or reduce stamina.

 

[Evlar]

Amidst all this "debate", I think it's clear to see that a "classic" shard means different things to different people, based upon their own previous experiences.

For my own part, PvP was a very small part of my overall activity. That doesn't make me think that this will be a 100% PvP shard. Far from it. It might be for some people, but that's always been the beauty of UO for many. The ability and the option to participate in many different activities.

I embraced all that was possible at the time. Each aspect provided it's own pleasure and style of gaming. I role-played, I crafted, I adventured, I explored, I fought monsters, I fought other players, I participated and helped form player communities and towns, plus a lot more...

My problem with the modern game, is the feeling that dispite all the expansions, dispite all the new items, the new lands... I actually believe the focus of the game has narrowed drastically from what it used to be. That is, the desire for "items" has taken overwhelming presidence within this game, not only in the manner of gameplay, but in the mindset of the player-base on the majority.

As my signature says, I'm "fed-up of the "item" based game". UO before, seemed to have a lot more depth. Depth of interactions, depth of PvP, depth of adventure, depth of challenge.

That in the main, is my own reason for wanting a classic server option. It's also one of the reasons why I've not gone to Siege... because the importance of "items" is there too. That and the unfortunate restrictions that many Siege players complain about.

Hopefully with a classic shard, the developers will learn from the mistakes made with Siege.

Skill gains should be the same ratio as on production shards, whilst retaining only the skills available during whichever era is decided upon.

Players should be allowed to have more than one character per account, able to play on a classic shard, unlike with Siege. I for one, would much prefer to interact with some of the same people, on different characters, on the same account and same shard. It makes my gameplay experience more expansive. I can choose who and what I want to be, whenever I log into the game. I shouldn't have to pay for additional accounts just to have that option. Although, I have always had more than one account, because I enjoy a larger scope of character creation than one account will permit

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I think the ability to be whatever you wanted was the best thing about Classic UO.

You could be a PK, a merchant, a crafter, an Anti-PK, a PvM'er, an RP'er, or just hang out. There were always people around...unlike now.

In the current game, you can't be a PK, you can't be an Anti-PKm, RP is pretty dead, crafters have been nerfed to oblivion...and there is no one to hang out with.

Now, you can PvM...so that you can get uber items. You can be a merchant...and sell uber items...or you can PvP with other PvPers...using uber items. rolleyes:

 

[Ray_]

And it is, very wrong.

I started PvPing in UO on the second day it was live...not necessarily because I wanted to at that time. (and not as Morgana!)

What I actually wasn't into was PKing. In fact, I was polar opposite. In the second month of the game, I founded the Protectors of Virtue along with 2 friends. As the Guild Leader of PoV, I made it our business to protect players from PKs.

Once UO:R came out, I didn't see the purpose of PvPing any longer other than to defend myself and my Guild when recalling to my house or my Guild Tower.

So when you say I wasn't in the PvP scene...you would be right if you are talking about post-Trammel...but before Trammel, PvP was UO to me.

I guess what I meant by "scene" was in a guild wars, O/C, and dueling sense of the word. I don't really know you, and definitely didn't know you back then, it's just my impression based on posts I've read in this thread. Mostly stuff like using dragons in PvP and your opinions on precasting and UO:R combat.
Anyway, I didn't mean any offense and it definitely wasn't an attack on you

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I guess what I meant by "scene" was in a guild wars, O/C, and dueling sense of the word. I don't really know you, and definitely didn't know you back then, it's just my impression based on posts I've read in this thread. Mostly stuff like using dragons in PvP and your opinions on precasting and UO:R combat.
Anyway, I didn't mean any offense and it definitely wasn't an attack on you

No, it's cool. I just started as a tamer with Morgana, but I had other PvP characters back then. Even Morgana was an archer for a while when that was all the rage. Since I can remember, the PvP "template" of choice has changed throughout the years.

Back in my "anti" days, we usually hunted reds in groups...so having pets involved was a BIG plus...even though they were slow and stupid. A few well placed energy fields and walls of stone by guildmates makes the pet AI more effective

 

[Ray_]

Just to point out a couple of things about UOR PvP, the special hits themselves and other changes may have been considered damaging (in some cases I can absolutely agree with it), but there were many other additions that allowed for a much larger variety of templates to be used. On top of that, there was a major combat fix that was introduced with UOR that basically took a glaring problem with the way swings were handled and fixed it. The reality is that a good majority of the changes were very beneficial to PvP on the whole, and it's a matter of knowing which ones added variety or fixes problems versus the ones that stifled specific templates.

Woah woah woah. UO:R almost killed consensual PvP, dude.

You really think that insta-hit was a glaring problem? Maybe you're misremembering, but UO:R made it so that dex determined when in the animation the hit/miss was calculated. Meaning that if you didn't have high dex (as in 90+) your melee skill could be completely nullified by your opponent simply moving away mid-swing. Add on the dex penalties for all metal armor pushed your required dex to 100 if you wanted to be an effective warrior against competent opponents. That was a terrible change!


I started to type out a breakdown of why almost every combat change to UO:R was bad, but I'll just say that everyone knows Runesabre played a dexxer on Siege and hated mages - not just tanks

35% damage bonus for GM lumberjack + concussion blow = lol

mindblast, mindblast, mindblast


It was bad and gimmicky and rewarded low investment in characters.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

I started to type out a breakdown of why almost every combat change to UO:R was bad, but I'll just say that everyone knows Runesabre played a dexxer on Siege and hated mages - not just tanks

35% damage bonus for GM lumberjack + concussion blow = lol

mindblast, mindblast, mindblast


It was bad and gimmicky and rewarded low investment in characters.

I had a macer (my tailor in fact!! ) that I loved playing just after UO:R. I had houses in Fel, and I loved watching Dexers scatter when my macer showed up. Bye bye armor!

I don't claim to know as much about the mechanics of it all, but it sure was fun beating people to death that warmace!

 

[FlaminWarlordGL]

The best change that UO:R brought was being able to poison lock someone. Honestly, being able to heal through poison (t2a) makes 1v1 fighting a complete joke. You can stand there with gheal precasted and there is pretty much no chance a mage can kill you 1v1. t2a Hally mage 1v1 pvp is by far the most boring 1v1 style in UO history.

 

[Trebr Drab]

I think I can say with a degree of certainty that we have more or less arrived at a consensus regarding penalties for PKs...right?

- Stat Loss on ressurection, not death
- No use of towns other than Buc's Den
- NPC won't deal with reds
- Reds can only ressurect via players and the Chaos Shrine

Basically, the "Classic" penalties.

Did I leave anything out?

Also, have we sorted the issue of UO:R combat changes?

For those that don't know what those are:

Lumberjacking and Axes
The lumberjacking skill will provide a bonus to damage when the player is using one of the following axes. The higher the characters lumberjacking skill the more damage they will do up to a 25% bonus for 99.9 lumberjacking. At Grandmaster lumberjacking, the damage bonus is 35%.
•Axe
•Battle Axe
•Double Axe
•Executioner’s Axe
•Hatchet
•Large Battle Axe
•Two-handed Axe
Two-handed Weapons
Any melee weapon that requires two hands to wield will gain a special attack. The type of special attack will depend on the type of weapon used. These special attacks will only work against player characters, not against monsters or animals.
•Mace Weapon: Crushing blow, a hit for double damage. Only applies to true maces, not staves.
•Sword Weapon: Concussion blow, victim’s intelligence is halved for 30 seconds. Note the effects of a concussion blow are not cumulative, once a target is the victim of a concussion blow, they cannot be hit in that manner again for 30 seconds.
•Fencing Weapon: Paralyzing blow, victim is paralyzed for 4 seconds. Once paralyzed, the victim cannot fight back (s/he wont auto-defend) or cast spells, however s/he can still use potions and bandages. The paralysis will not break by any means, even if the victim takes damage. Once paralyzed, the victim cannot be paralyzed again with another special attack until the paralysis wears off.
Upon a successful hit, there will be a small chance to inflict one of the special attacks. The base chance to inflict one of the special attacks is 20%. A high intelligence will give a small bonus towards the chance to execute a special attack up to a total chance of 30%.

Maces
The bonus for damaging armor and lowering stamina will now be restricted to the following mace weapons:
•Mace
•War Mace
•War Hammer
•War Axe
•Hammer Pick
•Club
•Maul
Wands, staves, and smith hammers will not damage armor or reduce stamina.

Are you kidding me?
First off, the justice system is as lacking as it was before.
Secondly, those special attack rules make ganking easier than ever.

 

[Kaivan]

Woah woah woah. UO:R almost killed consensual PvP, dude.

In what way? It may not have supported tank mage PvP, but there was a very strong dueling scene and PvP scene.

You really think that insta-hit was a glaring problem? Maybe you're misremembering, but UO:R made it so that dex determined when in the animation the hit/miss was calculated. Meaning that if you didn't have high dex (as in 90+) your melee skill could be completely nullified by your opponent simply moving away mid-swing. Add on the dex penalties for all metal armor pushed your required dex to 100 if you wanted to be an effective warrior against competent opponents. That was a terrible change!

I never said that insta-hit was the problem.

Keep in mind that UOR changed the actual animation time for swinging a melee weapon from 1.5 seconds to 1 second, making it uniform with archery for the swing animation time. Also, the lack of insta-hit didn't suddenly mean that a person could move away from your swings at all times. The only time that was ever really a danger was when a player with extremely low dex swung, and you had to have near perfect reaction time to react in less than a second time and still have it register server side.

That being said, insta-hit was never the problem with T2A combat (just so I get it out there).

I started to type out a breakdown of why almost every combat change to UO:R was bad, but I'll just say that everyone knows Runesabre played a dexxer on Siege and hated mages - not just tanks

35% damage bonus for GM lumberjack + concussion blow = lol

I never said that all the changes weren't ill thought out. Should concussion blow have been given to axes? Absolutely not. Is it practical that lumberjacking added some bonus damage when using an axe? Yes. Was 35% a reasonable number? Of course not.

mindblast, mindblast, mindblast

Considering the fact that Mind Blast was effectively a broken spell during T2A if you had more than dead 0 resist (and even then it was a poor damage spell), I don't see a problem with them making the spell effective.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Are you kidding me?
First off, the justice system is as lacking as it was before.
Secondly, those special attack rules make ganking easier than ever.

Okay, so I will put you down as a NO on UO:R combat changes?

As to the justice system...I have seen too many posts here to ignore them. Dakkon Darkblade made a very valid point (and so did others)...the 'Classic' ruleset penalties should be tried first, and then if changes are necessary...the devs should add them later.

Is this my own personal preference? Probably not...I still say that stat loss should occur on death, and that some method of working off counts should replace UMing. That has long been my stance...however, I do not think that is what the majority of the players that support the creation of this shard want.

"Sometimes, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - One of those old Star Trek movies...one of the few GOOD ones.

 

[Trebr Drab]

Are you kidding me?
First off, the justice system is as lacking as it was before.
Secondly, those special attack rules make ganking easier than ever.

Okay, so I will put you down as a NO on UO:R combat changes?

As to the justice system...I have seen too many posts here to ignore them. Dakkon Darkblade made a very valid point (and so did others)...the 'Classic' ruleset penalties should be tried first, and then if changes are necessary...the devs should add them later.

Is this my own personal preference? Probably not...I still say that stat loss should occur on death, and that some method of working off counts should replace UMing. That has long been my stance...however, I do not think that is what the majority of the players that support the creation of this shard want.

"Sometimes, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" - One of those old Star Trek movies...one of the few GOOD ones.

You're basing this purely on what some old PKers say here. Where's the logic? That "it worked before"?

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

You're basing this purely on what some old PKers say here. Where's the logic? That "it worked before"?

I think that some of the posters here have a point.

The returning players to a Classic Shard will go into it knowing what to expect. Honestly, anyone that is expecting a non-PvP/PK-free shard will likely just stay on their Trammel based shards anyway.

I am not throwing PvMers, Crafters, RPers, etc. under the bus...but I think that any open PvP Classic Shard that EA launches is going to be a primarily PvP shard. There will be others that play on it, but they will understand, up front, what they are signing on for.

I had once thought that a re-creation of the old days was possible...but I see now that it will never happen. The best we can hope for is a Classic Shard that mimics the old days of UO as best as possible, while opening itself up to be a full on PvP shard. The only thing, based on what I have seen, that would change that would be a UO:R shard...which I am not very interested in personally.

 

[Unsatisfied]

Erm... amidst all the "debate" and arguments... Ahuaeyjnkxs has made some of the sanest comments here.

im not doubting that but that statement was awesome.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

im not doubting that but that statement was awesome.

You guys cut Ahu some slack...he is a true vet, and an awesome RP'er. He is also a member of the PoV...so I have his back...always.

 

[Unsatisfied]

You guys cut Ahu some slack...he is a true vet, and an awesome RP'er. He is also a member of the PoV...so I have his back...always.

damnit no one understands when im joking

 

[Unsatisfied]

You're basing this purely on what some old PKers say here. Where's the logic? That "it worked before"?

I have never been a pk on osi/ea uo. I've been a newb, a newb dexer in order/chaos, a tamer, a bank sitter and a crafter and then much later an accomplished mage pvper of different sorts in order/chaos/factions but never a pk. And I'm firmly behind the old system like I suggested on one of the first few pages. It needs to be put in before anything harder gets introduced, if its not working and there is true evidence that pking is out of hand... Then introduce some better thought out penalty.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

if its not working and there is true evidence that pking is out of hand... Then introduce some better thought out penalty.

Exile FTW?

 

[Kaleb]

I think that some of the posters here have a point.

The returning players to a Classic Shard will go into it knowing what to expect. Honestly, anyone that is expecting a non-PvP/PK-free shard will likely just stay on their Trammel based shards anyway.

I am not throwing PvMers, Crafters, RPers, etc. under the bus...but I think that any open PvP Classic Shard that EA launches is going to be a primarily PvP shard. There will be others that play on it, but they will understand, up front, what they are signing on for.

Its a catch 22 there, being it wont be just a PvP game and just PvPers, but everyone who sings in consents to pvp. The shard Will need and get due to players needin stuffs, Crafters, PVMers, PK's, Merchants, T-hunters, thieves exc,exc it will be a true RP shard. It will attract a lot more people than just PvPers.

I had once thought that a re-creation of the old days was possible...but I see now that it will never happen. The best we can hope for is a Classic Shard that mimics the old days of UO as best as possible, while opening itself up to be a full on PvP shard. The only thing, based on what I have seen, that would change that would be a UO:R shard...which I am not very interested in personally.

Remove trammel and Ren was not all that bad in general (Siege had a Very populated server back then) up to when it got borked up with pub 16. Even 3rd dawn/LBR was not all that bad(though it was prior to pub 16).

 

[kelmo]

Its a catch 22 there, being it wont be just a PvP game and just PvPers, but everyone who sings in consents to pvp. The shard Will need and get due to players needin stuffs, Crafters, PVMers, PK's, Merchants, T-hunters, thieves exc,exc it will be a true RP shard. It will attract a lot more people than just PvPers.



Remove trammel and Ren was not all that bad in general (Siege had a Very populated server back then) up to when it got borked up with pub 16. Even 3rd dawn/LBR was not all that bad(though it was prior to pub 16).

*chuckles*

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

up to when it got borked up with pub 16.

 

[Kaleb]

Love that guy

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

Swedish Chef = CLASSIC!!!

 

[SoulStealer A.O]

I haven't been reading but what is going on here? Are you guys talking about using UO:R Mechanics for the classic server instead of T2A? Gosh I really hope not. Forget about Runic Weapon, Para Blows and Concussion blow PvP. I really hope I'm wrong. Yeah there was a strong dueling scene in UO:R but field pvp took a major hit. I mean it still happened, but many people who played both would agree that from a PvP standpoint Pre uo:r as a lot more fun. Unless of course you liked 2 hitting people.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I agree... T2A pvp was simple and was the best. IT can be tweaked, but not much for a start. Those special moves feel like they were only implemented to mimic diablo because noobs would find it boring. TBH it dosen't feel right, if they are to be implemented they should be highly random and VERY rare. And I think there were only added to balance meditation, right ? So it all boils down to is meditation right or not for our classic server...

And what I said, statloss is a god driven penalty system and will never work good. But it DID work good for me, even if trammel didn't exist ; when my murderer died with 3000 bounty reports (no noobs, no crafters ; only deep dungeon kills) he was done with.

Anyone remember how many hours I would have needed to UM ? No way in heaven... and even IF I would have done it, the people who killed me would have been HAPPY as gheese to see me UM for 2 weeks, it far outweighted any pathetic loot I have gained ; because it wasn't my skills, it was the character integrity which was broken. Just like the stat loss system... again this logic has never been challenged... statloss is a GIFT to noto PKs and BLUE pks. God loves them... (ok sorry for the irony)

I will repeat myself a little because I have no idea why some of my posts have been removed without even a notice explaining what I should not say. But I have a system that can take care of both hacking and problem players without needing a privacy invading technique, and its so simple I'm now certain noone can ever come up with it. I repeat, I will give it away to someone trustable @ EA, I want no money nor fame for it ; it is powerful a script. I designed it in 1999 and the only reason it was not implemented is because they fired everyone in our seer team just as it was being put on the table, and thus my EA contact person disapeared like dust in the wind...

Of course when that happened ; I was very frustrated, my childhood dreams being stolen like that ; so I created the UOE shadow ping loop (seems like I was a scripting genius at just 14 y.o.) which gave the whole of UO lots of trouble. So I'm not claiming to be an angel here...

The only thing I am asking for is that my companionship be honored and that ultima lore be put back in its right place. Simple... and my script is so simple that it could be live in less than a month. Small patch, problem fixed.

It has only one downside that I am sure every classic proponent will not mind a bit, but I cannot mention it without selling the salad ; sorry.

Is anyone up to philosophying about my "heritage" or if I am doing the right thing ? Because I don't claim to have the absolute truth...

 

[Antonio Cataneo]

if you really have something like it just mail Mythic through their site

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

I wouldn't even lift a finger, I want the community to have all the credit for it ; because thats how it was inspired. I'm at that point where I'll even hide amongst you because it's so illogical what is going on... they have had ample ways to recognize my authenticity, I understand the often mystically perceived part of my character Ahu might be a little delusive, but as a companion I stand firm and say I am in my whole right to act silly for what I endured.

The abyss looks like a sweet place in comparison.

I get my companionship ; the community gets the solution. Will stratics be the mediator, thats the question the community has to answer...

 

[fantasy10k]

How can 81 people be opposed to something that wont effect them at all? It will just inscrease the player base for Uo ffs.

 

[Ahuaeyjnkxs]

if you follow the thread back you will find the answer.

Walk it backwards you must.

There is nothing virtually sound enough to answer your question. Exept... maybe something that has been subconscious for a while... its got a torque of sorts.

OH RLY ?...

 

[Unsatisfied]

Bird is the word

 

[Antonio Cataneo]

i really don't get what is the "companionship" you are talking about, but if you ask for "ransoms" for this fabled script you are either a troll or someone who doesn't do it for the community. Apart from this, don't make this thread a "LOLWUT" dump

 

[pilawhitetrash]

How can 81 people be opposed to something that wont effect them at all? It will just inscrease the player base for Uo ffs.

this

 

[Cogniac]

With this post, this thread becomes the longest thread on the Stratics forums. Congrats.

 

[Renyard Foxenwyle]

With this post, this thread becomes the longest thread on the Stratics forums. Congrats.

Hopefully the Devs will take that into consideration. I think it shows not only how much debate has gone into the general consensus of what we want in a classic shard, but just how much support there is for one in the paying and non-paying player base.

 

[angelus aconitum]

I wish I would have more time to participate in this thread and I will have a look in here from time to time.
Just wanted to say that I want a classic shard and I always wanted one. I also hope that EA / Mythic will seriously consider such a shard.

 

[Morgana LeFay (PoV)]

How can 81 people be opposed to something that wont effect them at all? It will just inscrease the player base for Uo ffs.

I'd say 1 part selfishness and 3 parts fear.

Most of the people that have expressed opposition to a Classic Shard hide behind 'resources' as their reason...but I think in understanding the playstyles of these individuals, one can easily discern their genuine reason:

They are afraid. They are afraid that the Classic Shard will be more popular than the current shards. They are afraid that if that happens, EA will see what some of us have been saying is true, that Trammel was a mistake. They are afraid that eventually, their shards might be changed to become more like classic shards. They are afraid that the developers will devote time and effort towards something other than the 'gimme, gimme, gimme' item based expansions ushered in by AoS. They are afraid that the 'uber, rare, and leet' items that they have been hording for the last 6 years will lose their "value" (as if they ever had any real value to begin with)....But most of all, they are afraid that the risk-free gameplay found on current shards might come to an end as players realize that risk adds challenge to the game.

And I think that about sums it all up.

 

[Evlar]

Erm... amidst all the "debate" and arguments... Ahuaeyjnkxs has made some of the sanest comments here.

im not doubting that but that statement was awesome.

You guys cut Ahu some slack...he is a true vet, and an awesome RP'er. He is also a member of the PoV...so I have his back...always.

Not criticising Ahu in the slightest. I love reading his comments and his RP viewpoint. Truly does show he really cares about UO. I also look forward to a classic shard, so I get to meet in-game, as with a lot of players who've added to this thread.