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Classic shard.

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Guido_LS

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
I for one have no issues with quests...no issues with custom housing with some limits...and even some plants...as long as they get rid of those garrish neon colors. I actually rather like the plants that are actually green and look like...plants. The re-hued stuff they can keep.

One thing I think that every current Tram player should understand about 'Classic' UO:

It wasn't as geared toward PvM as it is now.

There were only the anti-virtue dungeons, and with T2A, you got Ice, and Fire, at so on.

I'd also like to see Khaldun included. That was always the 'advanced' dungeon of the game until all the new expansions came along.

I wish there was more I could tell you that would make you like a world without Ilshenar, and Tokuno, and paragons, and peerless bosses, and artifacts, and all that comes along with all of that...but if that is what you are into, there is a HUGE list of shards that are currently available that have all of that stuff.

A Classic Shard wouldn't have that stuff.
/em breaks out his best Strother Martin impersonation...

What we have here is... failure to communicate...

It wouldn't bother me if this classic shard didn't even have the lost lands involved with it. What bothers me is the absolute lack of anyone willing to compromise on bringing some of the good features about UO into it, without dragging the old features along for the ride.

Oh no, that's NOT in a classic shard... Oh no, that wasn't part of the way things were...

There's another thing you remember on the one hand, and blatantly throw away with the other - the other thing that wasn't on the classic shards... Players... And Call of Duty:UO style, IMO, won't do jack to bring back AND keep any significant numbers to justify EA keeping it open for any period of time.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Yeah, I remember how it worked. Most people just took precautions by block off rooms and such with lockdowns. I don't believe it is something that couldn't be worked around...but at the same time, I don't consider it a deal breaker to not have it one way or another.

I think the system that was added just before custom housing would be best...but again, I am not that worried about it one way or the other, as long as there was some kind of security beyond the front door like in the old days.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
/em breaks out his best Strother Martin impersonation...

What we have here is... failure to communicate...

It wouldn't bother me if this classic shard didn't even have the lost lands involved with it. What bothers me is the absolute lack of anyone willing to compromise on bringing some of the good features about UO into it, without dragging the old features along for the ride.

Oh no, that's NOT in a classic shard... Oh no, that wasn't part of the way things were...

There's another thing you remember on the one hand, and blatantly throw away with the other - the other thing that wasn't on the classic shards... Players... And Call of Duty:UO style, IMO, won't do jack to bring back AND keep any significant numbers to justify EA keeping it open for any period of time.
First of all, I have never advocated for the shard to never change. I am advocating for them starting with a small landmass, see how things go, and then add as needed...as oppossed to opening it up with so much land mass that days go by without seeing anyone at all.

Secondly, you think there were no players on the shards before Tram? Not true. It wasn't until AoS and Tram that you really started to see long periods of time without seeing anyone. Ride around the forest areas above Yew for a while...or even just take the road from Jhelom all the way to Skara on a current shard. Do that until you actually see a live player (no scripters). Get back to me and let me know how long that took.

And lastly, I think you are being intentionally extreme with the Call of Duty stuff. If that is what I was advocating, I would be asking for ZERO checks on PvP like you see now in Fel.

Once again, it is the extreme ends of the argument that divide us all. One side wants full 100% open no consequence PvP, the other side wants 0% no risk consentual PvP only. Neither are going to work for very long with a Classic Shard because it will lack all of the item based content that came after they split the world.

If you want a Tram/Fel shard, with all the expansions, there are currently 26 of them running and waiting for you to log into.
 

Guido_LS

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
First of all, I have never advocated for the shard to never change. I am advocating for them starting with a small landmass, see how things go, and then add as needed...as oppossed to opening it up with so much land mass that days go by without seeing anyone at all.

Secondly, you think there were no players on the shards before Tram? Not true. It wasn't until AoS and Tram that you really started to see long periods of time without seeing anyone. Ride around the forest areas above Yew for a while...or even just take the road from Jhelom all the way to Skara on a current shard. Do that until you actually see a live player (no scripters). Get back to me and let me know how long that took.
I saw plenty of people - on the Trammel facet. Many more than I ever saw at once on the Felucca side - and even those that still stayed on the Felucca side would hide in their houses if someone they didn't know came along...

And the current server populations are not an indication of how things were then - the current server populations are a combination of things, including, but not limited to -

1) A PvP community that felt they were disabused with the UO:R Split
2) A PvM community that felt they were disabused by the PK's before the split
3) A tired game, with tired graphics, that's only still being kept on life support because of a bunch of hard core people still pay the bill, and are willing to forgive 1 and 2.

And lastly, I think you are being intentionally extreme with the Call of Duty stuff. If that is what I was advocating, I would be asking for ZERO checks on PvP like you see now in Fel.
No more extreme than Longest Journey and his inability to type anything more than the letter combination NO.

I've already offered compromise. It's time for others to do so as well.


Once again, it is the extreme ends of the argument that divide us all. One side wants full 100% open no consequence PvP, the other side wants 0% no risk consentual PvP only. Neither are going to work for very long with a Classic Shard because it will lack all of the item based content that came after they split the world.

If you want a Tram/Fel shard, with all the expansions, there are currently 26 of them running and waiting for you to log into.
I want what will make the LARGEST possible number of players happy, or at least happier than they are now. I don't want to play what is essentially a game in zombie mode. Nowhere, in ANY of my posts, have you seen ME advocate split shards. NOWHERE. What you have seen me advocate, and some things you even agreed with -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido_LS
Overall, it looks good to me. There is only one addition that, to me, would be vital, even though it came in a later pub - control slots for tamers. This should be self explanatory
Morgana LeFay (PoV) said:
Yeah. As much as I miss commanding an army of dragons and White Wyrms...it was way overpowered in PvP...and PvM. So I would agree.
are things that would make for a more even playing field, while still bringing some enjoyment to the non-PvP crowd.

You make some great arguments, Morgana, and are obviously incredibly passionate about this subject. But sometimes, you put on the blinders and keep running headlong without seeing side to side. And you are running headlong into the brick wall that is EA - you need to leave the blinders off, especially if you plan on being the self-proclaimed *Avatar* of a classic shard.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Well, for me at least, when I say I want a 'Classic' shard, that's what I mean. A shard that is based in the 'Classic' era. To me, at least, that means pre-UO:R.

The compromises I have suggested have been somewhat well received by people on both sides of the argument. You say that longest journey is saying nothing but NO, but I have seen him make some suggests and change his opinions as well.

Heh, its kind of funny, because I sometimes think of marriage as a compromise...and what compromise usually means is that neither side is 100% happy.

I think that is what a Classic Shard should be about...no one being 100% happy...like a good marriage :)

Obviously I am kidding, sort of, but in another way I am serious. The issue of PKing specifically is a sore subject amongst old school UO players. There are people that post regularly on Stratics that would, or have claimed they would, close their accounts immediately and never come back to UO if EA opens a shard that allows PKing. Imagine that, these people are so afraid of being PKed that they somehow think that a mean bad red is going to some how come out of the Classic Shard and 'get them'. It's simply absurd! But it goes to show you how passionate some people are about this issue. The Tram/Fel split was a kick in the groin to PKs. It was a message sent to them by EA that said: 'Thank you for your years of support of Ultima Online. We value your business, but not as much as we value these other people's business...so please, don't let the door hit you on the way out!'

So when you get the two sides of the argument talking, and compromises are suggested, both sides tend to get a little testy. The PK side wants to make sure that they can enjoy their playstyle without so many limits that they might as well not bother...and the other side, well...they already have everything so they feel no need to give anything.

For me...it's about going back to a period in UO's history...a crucial juncture, and taking the path that EA didn't take. It's not about having one side or the other come out on top. It's about seeing a future that is different from the one we have already seen played out, not about going back to the past.

So yes, I would love to see a Classic Shard...and I would want that to be as close to the original launch as possible...and I would want it to move forward, but I think I'd rather see fresh ideas, new content that is unique to the shard, rather than just rehashing the things they already put into UO the first time around...but that's a dream. I know they won't do it, because it will take work, and money, and it will take attention away from the current shards ... and that is something that I think a lot of UO players don't want to see happen.

Personally, I think they have 26 shards to pick from already...why can't we have just 1?
 
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georgemarvin2001

Guest
@Guido_LS: I think you're missing the whole point. It's not that we're going to go back to the first day of T2A and stay there forever. We MIGHT want some of the good things that came later, like maybe plants, some (but not all) of the later weapon, armor and deco art, maybe dragon armor, even. Maybe a tamed-down version of customized housing. If the classic shard is as popular as we hope it will be, we might even want to bring some of the new lands in, or, more likely, we would pester the Devs for some unique new lands instead of the weird, not-quite-UO'ish Illshenar, and a totally new dungeon or two, designed especially for the T2A era skills, spells and abilities. However, I think that about 99.9999% of us would stage a wholesale revolt if some well-meaning Dev even mentioned Malas or Doom. AOS left such a bad taste in our mouths that we still seethe in hatred of the very letters.

We might want a lot of stuff after the classic shard is on its feet and has a healthy, growing population and we've all gotten on our feet, so to speak.

But we don't want any of that stuff at the beginning. We want to start fresh, with an unspoiled T2A world, our "Garden of Eden", so to speak.

We're getting a new start, a chance to take the path not taken, taking the first step onto a new path, at a point in time before UO's devs began their trek down the path to AOS. We're going back to a time when we all agree that UO was fun, and starting again.

It can adapt, change, and evolve as the players in that world see fit. But don't force all the crap that several generations of well-meaning devs threw our way, beginning with UO:R, which a lot of us believe was the turning point, where UO ceased to be a medieval fantasy world where we could live, and became just another fighting MMORPG.

@Kelmo: I used to play on Siege some, pre-AOS. My character there still has his AOS robe. However, haven't played on Siege since AOS. I've barely even logged onto Siege in the last 7 years. Why?
1. I just couldn't see going through the slow, agonizingly slow, gut wrenchingly slow, grind of redoing his skills to survive in the post-AOS world there. Skill gains on Siege just seem like they take forever and a day.
2. I hate living out of a bank box.
3. I may have just moved to Siege and endured the slow process of making new characters if I could have had 5 characters on Siege. However, with just one character, I wouldn't be able to play the diverse ways that I like to play. I might want to play a thief today, a knight in shining armor tomorrow, a mage the day after. I might even dust off my tamer every great occasion. I might want to PvP today, PvM tomorrow and craft the next day. One character doesn't provide enough diversity.
4. A low shard population feeds on itself. I play on Atlantic, where there is a big population. Siege is almost deserted. I don't want to play on a shard with a really low population.

Yeah, if we do make a classic shard, and it's successful, it will, of course, make Siege even more deserted.

But think about it. If you're on Siege, that means you don't mind PvP. You're not really an item w&0+e. You won't die if you lose that great item you just looted because you couldn't insure it.

Don't you want to be able to play in a time where magic resist...resists magic? Where spell reflection...reflects spells? Where reactive armor acts like ... armor? Where you can glance at a weapon or piece of armor and see if it's worth keeping, rather than getting out your calculator and spending 10 minutes figuring out whether it will work with your suit? Where, in a battle, the person with the best skills wins, rather than the one who has swallowed the best power scrolls? Or where, in a battle, the best player wins, not the best suit?

If the players on Siege move to the classic shard, and Siege becomes a deserted wasteland, won't the players who have moved to the classic shard be having a lot more fun playing UO in T2A than they were, trying to play UO in Candyland? If you didn't want to stay on the deserted Siege, of course, you would be more than welcome on Classic.

All teasing aside, the truth is that Siege would probably be one of the hardest-hit shards. Most Siege players are veterans who played before AOS, who hated AOS, and who would welcome the opportunity to play in the pre-AOS world again.

I've noticed that a lot of current players on low-population shards who are against a pre-AOS shard have the same fears that you do: If the classic shard is successful, a lot of the remaining players on their shards will move there, leaving their shards a deserted wasteland. They may be able to place a castle for the price of a deed, but why bother, if there isn't anybody left to play with?

Likewise, a lot of the people at EA would be hoping that a classic shard is a dismal failure, because the devs and management who have survived from that era would have to admit that they made a mistake. And a costly one.
 

Guido_LS

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
@georgemarvin2001 - I'm not missing the point at all. I've been pretty adamant in that I want a pre-AoS server as well. I've not objected to a single thing that has been suggested by, or *adopted* by, anyone.

I've suggested 2 things, one of which would be a game leveler for all, and one that would harm nobody. Control slots for TAMERS, and classic tile customizable homes.

1) There's a thread here in UHall calling for a nerf of RC's. 6 Mystics let loose and poof, they was gone... now imagine *1* person coming on screen with 10 WW's, or dragons, or even more realistically, 6-10 Frenzied Ostards - I used to hunt with an ostard pack, and 5 of them will take down a regular dragon in about 3 seconds. Think a player stands a snowballs chance? At least with the summoned, there is the control that exists purely from mana pools. With no MR, LRC, LMC, etc, the max amount of EV's any one mage could have up at a time might be 3, 4 tops. And they can be dispelled. Tamables can't.

2) Why would it, or should it, bother anyone if I wanted to come, be a part of this classic community, and desired to make a nice looking blacksmithy? Is it because it's felt that, somehow, crafters are to be *****s in the streets of Britain, hawking their wares? If so, then yes, I would object, and most loudly - a classic server should not be built for the exclusive pleasure of one group of players, and making the other nothing more than a support group of second class citizens.

You see, what some are forgetting here is that not all of us from the *classic* days are PvP'ers. Some of us did it because we had to, but not because we enjoyed it. I've been a crafter since day 1. Yes, I do have some relatively nice PvM characters, but they are the rare ones that are actually support characters, and not mains.

It's simple - this server HAS to appeal to more than one group of people, from day 1, or it won't work. There is no all or nothing here. It's either compromise or nothing.
 
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Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
2) Why would it, or should it, bother anyone if I wanted to come, be a part of this classic community, and desired to make a nice looking blacksmithy? Is it because it's felt that, somehow, crafters are to be *****s in the streets of Britain, hawking their wares?
No. I don't think anyone is saying that crafters shouldn't be able to have shops...we are just saying that with custom housing, not everyone will have a "nice looking" blacksmithy. Custom housing, while in theory is a great addition to the game, created a ton of hideous eyesores and ridiculous looking structures that don't fit into the world as they should. I have seen some just flat out AWESOME custom houses...I think my three are some of the best I have ever seen :) I am sure almost everyone thinks that about their house as well. But that's the problem...there is no standard at all.

If there was going to be custom housing, I wouldn't want there to be any lava tiles, waterfall tiles, and nothing that came in any expansion past AoS. More to the point, I would want the tiles severely limited...but this would not stop some idiot from having a dirt plot with with the word 'ASS' on it in tiles. It wouldn't stop somebody from making an entire house out of doors. These are two examples I have seen in game! I just can't see the big upside here. There were several house designs available that served as shops quite well for a long time before custom housing...so again, I don't think it's about forcing anyone to 'hawk wares' in Britain.
 

Guido_LS

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
[quote='Morgana LeFay (PoV)]If there was going to be custom housing, I wouldn't want there to be any lava tiles, waterfall tiles, and nothing that came in any expansion past AoS. More to the point, I would want the tiles severely limited...but this would not stop some idiot from having a dirt plot with with the word 'ASS' on it in tiles. It wouldn't stop somebody from making an entire house out of doors. These are two examples I have seen in game! I just can't see the big upside here. There were several house designs available that served as shops quite well for a long time before custom housing.
[/quote]

I don't disagree with your limitations - and yes, there are some genuinely ugly houses out there. But since we are basically coding a new server from the ground up, would it be that much of a stretch to recode the housing tool to make it impossible to mix/match tiles? Set the foundation, and that's the style of tiling/walls you are limited to. 4 walls and a solid roof don't exist? Can't commit the design. Eliminates the dirt plots, the doors only issue, and the stupid roof top advertising (to a degree - unless they remove gaza's from the craftable list, it's still possible) - and even then, with the gaza's, you can do that on classic houses.

And to me, the only house style that really worked for me as a blacksmithy type shop was the sandstone/patio - and even now, that layout suffers from lack of lock downs/secures. Yeah, yeah, I know - some people don't want those, either...
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

stranger diamond
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Looks like Nosfentor has done his job well...

I'll never compromise.

UO is like going monkey on a four wheeler, it's wild all the time, but sometimes you feel so in control you could swear you're being guided by some higher power... but the next, you keep pressing the throttle because you know if you stop it'll ruin your fun, but you doubt about the worth of your real life.

It's like a lotus flower I am sitting on right now, I am indeed the one, however ridiculous it might seem ; with a radical perspective on this game ; but I have no merit. I'm just lucky... it is you, this community that from a distance looks maimed and groveling, that rose the flower above the muddy waters.

Without you Avatar, I would have drowned, my contribution would have been lost, and more importantly, whatever it is thats keeping everything holding together... it would never have seen the sublimation of your work. The honor, the tenacity...

Thats why when I look at the poll and see who are against the creation of a classic shard, I chuckle.

But I chuckle not like I did in the day, scorning and spurning.

I chuckle because I feel I understand it all, and I honor all in their choices, in the higher knowledge that most of you knowfull well that if the sizzling remains of this community splits even further, it will be gone forever.

That is why I am hated, that is why I play this role still incomplete ; to flip the utopia brought on by EA around... to let my creativity finally flourish.

I alone can magnitudinalise the abyss to a point it becomes alive ; and I feel kind of comfortable saying so. That is mainly because it is relished to be "important" where you cannot be "self-important" and also at the same time it clarifies the fact of why my role was totally ruined by those people who took advantage of it and turned the irony into a cash machine.

For me it was torture, of the worst kind, physical pain pales in comparison to how my life turned after those events. It was a life dream turned into a farce, my own existance turned into nothigness, so a few people who didn't deserve it would end up with woman that didn't love them in bahamas.

I know I speak truth, and also why I am being ignored by most.

So yes, Kelmo and the others you represent, I hear ye. But sadly I am not avatar, I am a companion and that is all I will ever be. An ant on the edge of a volcano...

:grouphug:
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

stranger diamond
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Thanks for confirming my point.

Everyone is afraid to find back the old "tone" of writting that made UO sound kinda serious and for adults only, or at least conscious adolescents.

Now it's PG-13... UO had its head chopped off, and now it's menacing our very integrity.
 

Guido_LS

Seasoned Veteran
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Thanks for confirming my point.

Everyone is afraid to find back the old "tone" of writting that made UO sound kinda serious and for adults only, or at least conscious adolescents.

Now it's PG-13... UO had its head chopped off, and now it's menacing our very integrity.
No, it's just that a vast majority of people, here and in the real world, have great difficulty seeing anything in focus beyond the tips of their own noses. That, and, verily, you oftentimes appear to be the classic definition of a loony toon....
 
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georgemarvin2001

Guest
@Guido_LS: Let me make an argument against including control slots at the beginning. First, tamers were respected in the T2A era, but they didn't rule the world, and there weren't any control slots back then. Second, there won't be any pet bonding in a T2A ruleset. When that WW you tamed and trained for 2 months dies, it's dead. For good.

Taming was always supposed to be a powerful profession. A mage or warrior could be combat-ready in a matter of days after he first logged on. Taming was an advanced profession, which took months of dedication and hard work to master. The reward for all that patience and hard work was having a really powerful character that could make a lot of gold and would be effective in both PvP and PvM play.

The downside to taming was that you had to spend a lot of time training that dragon, and when it died, it was gone for good. Unlike a mage, you couldn't just recall home, grab another 100 gp worth of regs and be ready to go back to fighting. You would have to go to considerable time and trouble finding another dragon with really good starting stats. Then you would have to tame it. Then it would take you weeks to train the dragon to max skills. Most tamers cared for their dragon almost like it was a real pet. They were really upset when their pride and joy died. And that made them really careful about picking their battles.

Then there's the fact that a tamer might be able to bring 3 dragons to Brit bank to sell them, but he wouldn't be able to really control them in a fight. At least one would go wandering off, refuse to obey any orders, or turn wild in a fight. I didn't play a tamer much, but I seem to recall that you could handle a nightmare and a dragon easily, you could sort of handle two dragons, but trying to control three of them was about impossible in a fight. There was something about the AI that made them not want to work together very well back then.

Personally, I like the idea of the game mechanics making multiple dragons increasingly hard to handle better than a hard and fast limit.

About custom housing:

You aren't the only one who likes custom housing. A lot of us do. And most of the people who don't aren't really adamant about it. Morgana has said she wouldn't refuse to play if it's included, just that she wants it tamed down a little. She has several allies, and for good reason. Let's face it, there are some real but-ugly eyesores out there. Aside from Longest Journey, I don't think there is much real opposition to the idea of adding a tamed-down version of custom housing, though.

Personally, I'm more the "to each his own" type. It doesn't bother me in the least if they want to make a house out of fire tiles and decorated with daemon statues so it literally looks like hell, or a pile it full of bones and zombies to look like the night of the living dead, or a McDonald's. Or a McDonalds in Hell on the night of the living dead, for that matter. I actually get a kick out of seeing just what crazy designs that players will come up with. I look at it like this: I do whatever I want with my 18x18, they can do what they want with theirs.

Personally, I would say leave it in. However, the problem with making a classic shard has always been that the devs could say "The players can't even agree what a classic shard is, so it's impossible to make anything that will please them", or something to that effect. And that's that.

If we want it to happen this time, we have to hash it all out and present them with one concrete set of "must haves" that we can all agree on, and that they can't just wiggle their way out of.

Here's the way I see it: If we don't include custom housing in the list of things we want on a classic shard, nobody is going to have a temper fit and refuse to play, or make their own alternate list and present it to the devs with an "it's this or nothing" attitude, and it can always be added later. On the other hand, if we try to add it to the list of things we want in a classic shard right now, we've got Longest Journey and his alternate list to deal with, and the devs will be able to give us the same "the players can't agree among themselves" BS again.

It all boils down to this: Like the tamer who is careful about picking his fights, custom housing isn't anything I can't live without, and I would much rather have a classic shard without custom housing than not have one at all.

If I'm going to fight for something, it will be the post-T2A secure storage and lockdowns in houses, just because the T2A lockdown system generated thousands of calls to GMs, and caused thousands of players to close their accounts in disgust after they lost all their stuff. It is one of the few things that could give UO enough headaches that they would pull the plug on the whole thing, even if it was a roaring success otherwise.
 

Kaleb

Lore Master
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
No. I don't think anyone is saying that crafters shouldn't be able to have shops...we are just saying that with custom housing, not everyone will have a "nice looking" blacksmithy. Custom housing, while in theory is a great addition to the game, created a ton of hideous eyesores and ridiculous looking structures that don't fit into the world as they should. I have seen some just flat out AWESOME custom houses...I think my three are some of the best I have ever seen :) I am sure almost everyone thinks that about their house as well. But that's the problem...there is no standard at all.

If there was going to be custom housing, I wouldn't want there to be any lava tiles, waterfall tiles, and nothing that came in any expansion past AoS. More to the point, I would want the tiles severely limited...but this would not stop some idiot from having a dirt plot with with the word 'ASS' on it in tiles. It wouldn't stop somebody from making an entire house out of doors. These are two examples I have seen in game! I just can't see the big upside here. There were several house designs available that served as shops quite well for a long time before custom housing...so again, I don't think it's about forcing anyone to 'hawk wares' in Britain.
You have to understand, Housing will need a key to enter houses. If unlocked or wide open like todays Fel homes anyone can enter. If someone were to make a custom house in this ruleset its going to have a door, Plots will only be places for sale being your a sitting duck if you dont have walls. There will be no reason to make entrances to houses with waterfalls, or any other effect. House fighting will be a thing of the past err...... curent UO.

But I agree, we dont need Any of the garg, crystal walls, waterfalls, lava tiles. But we cant keep custom housing out its' to too big of a part of the game for many.
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

stranger diamond
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Thats exactly the point, when the majority does that, I cease to exist. You have to see that if I am not existing, I am a distraction, a cartoon indeed.

But what if I am not... what if all it took from me is some sweet acting to get everyone to reveal their true face, I have monitored consistently the people viewing my profile... and well thats all you'll get from me.

I am here... and I think red should have 1% statloss... and thats if they're berserk. Cowards with 5 murder counts should have a higher penalty and ALSO an incentive for rezing right away.

why is this issue being dodged ?

How much statloss ?!
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
You have to understand, Housing will need a key to enter houses. If unlocked or wide open like todays Fel homes anyone can enter. If someone were to make a custom house in this ruleset its going to have a door, Plots will only be places for sale being your a sitting duck if you dont have walls. There will be no reason to make entrances to houses with waterfalls, or any other effect. House fighting will be a thing of the past err...... curent UO.

But I agree, we dont need Any of the garg, crystal walls, waterfalls, lava tiles. But we cant keep custom housing out its' to too big of a part of the game for many.
Not entirely true. Classic shard I play on that has custom houses and fel ruleset and anyone can enter houses most people have a giant box shape house with a 1 tile gap at the front instead of a door. And to stop people from getting in they set a macro to "I wish to place a trash barrel" then run onto plot. drop it 1 tile out to move it, step in, hit macro again, and thats their door.
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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Thats very anti-classic... If you were AoD and you were overpowered by LLTS, it only took one of you to drop at the wrong moment and they could rush in the house and clean your slate.

What they did with the infinite loot I cannot speculate on however...

Some of the real classic stuff must stay and be allowed to happen or everything is just high-tech, right ?
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
You have to understand, Housing will need a key to enter houses.
I see no real reason to leave keys in beyond nostalgia. The current system does a better job of making sure that the house you worked for, found a spot for, decoed, and call home remains yours. I had guildies losing keys and runes to the guildhouse back in the old days, and it was a great big pain the rump. We took precautions...but it didn't prevent looting and house ambushes. Our favorite tactic back in the day was to carry a rune to Nu'jelm (an island that is entirely in guard protection with no public moongate) labeled Guild House, and a key to a boat none of us owned. It was so much fun to get PKed, and then watch the reds go on and on about how stupid we "nOoBs" were for having our house keys and rune on us. Oh, it was wonderful as they gated and all stepped through. But the best part was walking through the gate after them to find them all guard whacked, then casually getting rezed and collecting all their stuff. Free gate to town, and you got all your own loot back...plus theirs! But the icing on the cake...they were all stuck there and couldn't rez inside the guard zone...or get off the island!

Ah...memories...
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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See ? Who would want to kill those memories...

There just needs to be a realistic based system for personal attacks and loot.

Something realistic... say LLTS has 2000 members and its a big frickin castle. Well a band of pks sneaking in during the night and looting everything is a bit irrealist isn't it ? People sleep in that castle, so a nice AI NPC should spawn when the castle gets "attacked", representing a realistic force against the PKs and their "goals".

But if the PKs own 20 houses full of **** and LLTS "gets" to them by ambush or any legit mean, also steath is to be nerfed in those areas in order to balance the fact you can get sneaked in, but you'd have to be real careless to be realist. Like go in and leave the door open... a thief can't simply step over you and not be detected. A thief with a friend that will distract the owner tho... or a moment of no suspicion caused by confidence.

Well I say let them loot the whole house, the pks have 19 other, the house should be theirs too, owing to PKs carelessness.

Of course roleplay should get an incentive, if you want the arc to spin more than a coin, get me ?

I got it all planned in my head, all crisp and clear.

Thing is , if noone supports my stance on real life money and UO ; that they can never mix, I will cease to exist.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
I see no real reason to leave keys in beyond nostalgia. The current system does a better job of making sure that the house you worked for, found a spot for, decoed, and call home remains yours. I had guildies losing keys and runes to the guildhouse back in the old days, and it was a great big pain the rump. We took precautions...but it didn't prevent looting and house ambushes. Our favorite tactic back in the day was to carry a rune to Nu'jelm (an island that is entirely in guard protection with no public moongate) labeled Guild House, and a key to a boat none of us owned. It was so much fun to get PKed, and then watch the reds go on and on about how stupid we "nOoBs" were for having our house keys and rune on us. Oh, it was wonderful as they gated and all stepped through. But the best part was walking through the gate after them to find them all guard whacked, then casually getting rezed and collecting all their stuff. Free gate to town, and you got all your own loot back...plus theirs! But the icing on the cake...they were all stuck there and couldn't rez inside the guard zone...or get off the island!

Ah...memories...
We dont have to go all the way back to houses needing to be locked to be safe. I could easily comprimise by putting in the system that was around between this and aos, where house lockdowns and secures increased, secure containers were exactly that, secure. No one could open them unless they were friended/co-owened etc.... And there were a good ammount of lock downs. So the keys at this point were purely to lock up your house if you just didnt want people in there killing you or you wanted privacy etc...

The current housing system sucks. I really dont like it, I dont like the fact that you cant chase people into houses and risk a ban or possibly finishing them off etc. And on the other hand I dont like the fact that if your being ganked you cant run into your own house to escape if you attacked first.

So one of the old house systems is a must. Whichever one it is, I dont mind. As long as its not the post AoS one.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
And on the other hand I dont like the fact that if your being ganked you cant run into your own house to escape if you attacked first.
I think that is tied to the aggressor flag rules, not housing per se. I think if we are going back to a more 'wild west' approach that the whole aggressor/no recall/heat of combat stuff would need to go out the window. In the old days, if you were out hunting alone and saw a bunch of red names approaching, you could recall out before getting ganked. Heck, I never even wanted to play a mage, but recall was essential for survival in the really early days.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
I think that is tied to the aggressor flag rules, not housing per se. I think if we are going back to a more 'wild west' approach that the whole aggressor/no recall/heat of combat stuff would need to go out the window.
Agreed. No recall blocks from combat. That was put in with AOS to stop people from going to Fel, fighting, then recalling to escape.

In the old days, if you were out hunting alone and saw a bunch of red names approaching, you could recall out before getting ganked. Heck, I never even wanted to play a mage, but recall was essential for survival in the really early days.
Actually, you never saw red names approaching you. The "Show names of approaching players" didnt come in until LBR. Before that, someone could run past you and, unless you clicked on them or were in war mode or they attacked you, you didnt know whethere they were red, blue, or grey.

It kept things interesting and tense. You didnt know whether that guy riding past the mine was a red or just some adventuerer.

It also worked well for people trying to escape. If you could manage to out run a red and hide behind a house or other obstacle, they could lose track of you.

Thats why I always felt the "Show Names of Approaching Players" hurt the game. It made it easier to track people..... a little too easy.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
No. I don't think anyone is saying that crafters shouldn't be able to have shops...we are just saying that with custom housing, not everyone will have a "nice looking" blacksmithy. Custom housing, while in theory is a great addition to the game, created a ton of hideous eyesores and ridiculous looking structures that don't fit into the world as they should. I have seen some just flat out AWESOME custom houses...I think my three are some of the best I have ever seen :) I am sure almost everyone thinks that about their house as well. But that's the problem...there is no standard at all.

If there was going to be custom housing, I wouldn't want there to be any lava tiles, waterfall tiles, and nothing that came in any expansion past AoS. More to the point, I would want the tiles severely limited...but this would not stop some idiot from having a dirt plot with with the word 'ASS' on it in tiles. It wouldn't stop somebody from making an entire house out of doors. These are two examples I have seen in game! I just can't see the big upside here. There were several house designs available that served as shops quite well for a long time before custom housing...so again, I don't think it's about forcing anyone to 'hawk wares' in Britain.
Not to mention that custom houses allow for house PKs to build "Turret" houses. Bascially, its a house whose entire first floor is all low cut walls they can fire over from the cover of the middle of the house..... a tactic I saw used in AOS constantly.

Now, the only classic house that came close to that was the large house with patio. However, the patio was the only place you could shoot from, and it was out in the open, no roof to cover you, and other players could attack back.

So, while custom houses may have worked with Trammel and the other non PvP lands, it would be an open invitation for house PKs on a classic server.
 
L

Longest Journey

Guest
I see no real reason to leave keys in beyond nostalgia.
Lets see, theres realizm, risk, stuff like that.


The current system does a better job of making sure that the house you worked for, found a spot for, decoed, and call home remains yours.
The current system also make it a pain in the butt to get past a house thats close to a mountain. I remember after AOS I was mining and as I was I had to pass by houses close to the mountain. It was annoying to keep getting stuck on invisible barriers, especially when I was trying to run from an orc mage who kept pelting me with spells and killed me and my pack horse.

The T2A rules made sure your house was yours. The simple matter was, there was no auto ban with private houses. You went grey when you ran up on the steps of a house you werent friended to, but at least you could get by without being thrown back.

I had guildies losing keys and runes to the guildhouse back in the old days, and it was a great big pain the rump. We took precautions...but it didn't prevent looting and house ambushes.
Why were your guildmates even carrying their guild house runes on them? They should have kept them in their bank boxes and recalled off of them from in there. That was the first thing I was told by my guild masters in the past. Always keep your guildhouse rune in your bank box. Same rule applied for my house rune. I never took it out of my bank...ever.

So, if your guild house got ransacked, it was your guilds own carelessness that got the better of you.

Our favorite tactic back in the day was to carry a rune to Nu'jelm (an island that is entirely in guard protection with no public moongate) labeled Guild House, and a key to a boat none of us owned. It was so much fun to get PKed, and then watch the reds go on and on about how stupid we "nOoBs" were for having our house keys and rune on us. Oh, it was wonderful as they gated and all stepped through. But the best part was walking through the gate after them to find them all guard whacked, then casually getting rezed and collecting all their stuff. Free gate to town, and you got all your own loot back...plus theirs! But the icing on the cake...they were all stuck there and couldn't rez inside the guard zone...or get off the island!

Ah...memories...
This part I like. Smart thinking. Its like how people used to gate blues into a red ambush. You turned their own tactics against them.

You know, if/when they make a classic server, I just might do this, carry a rune marked "Home" for Nujel'm with a key on me. Thank you for the tactic.
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
I think that is tied to the aggressor flag rules, not housing per se. I think if we are going back to a more 'wild west' approach that the whole aggressor/no recall/heat of combat stuff would need to go out the window. In the old days, if you were out hunting alone and saw a bunch of red names approaching, you could recall out before getting ganked. Heck, I never even wanted to play a mage, but recall was essential for survival in the really early days.
exactly which includes older house rules. none of this access list crap
 
U

Unsatisfied

Guest
This part I like. Smart thinking. Its like how people used to gate blues into a red ambush. You turned their own tactics against them.

You know, if/when they make a classic server, I just might do this, carry a rune marked "Home" for Nujel'm with a key on me. Thank you for the tactic.
Same I never thought bout this one before its a freakin awesome one. Quick delete that post and keep it on the down low so the pks dont get wise :p
 

Kaleb

Lore Master
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I see no real reason to leave keys in beyond nostalgia. The current system does a better job of making sure that the house you worked for, found a spot for, decoed, and call home remains yours. I had guildies losing keys and runes to the guildhouse back in the old days, and it was a great big pain the rump. We took precautions...but it didn't prevent looting and house ambushes. Our favorite tactic back in the day was to carry a rune to Nu'jelm (an island that is entirely in guard protection with no public moongate) labeled Guild House, and a key to a boat none of us owned. It was so much fun to get PKed, and then watch the reds go on and on about how stupid we "nOoBs" were for having our house keys and rune on us. Oh, it was wonderful as they gated and all stepped through. But the best part was walking through the gate after them to find them all guard whacked, then casually getting rezed and collecting all their stuff. Free gate to town, and you got all your own loot back...plus theirs! But the icing on the cake...they were all stuck there and couldn't rez inside the guard zone...or get off the island!



Ah...memories...
No, no, no, you dont get me on this, You wont loose your house if you loose the key, Just that you have to lock your doors if you want people to stay outside. If you loose your key, you can either go to the bankbox get the extra, or rekey the house. Like I used to keep a key on the porch in a bag and everytime I entered the house I would get the key enter relock the door.
 

Kaleb

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And on the other hand I dont like the fact that if your being ganked you cant run into your own house to escape if you attacked first.
I think that is tied to the aggressor flag rules, not housing per se. I think if we are going back to a more 'wild west' approach that the whole aggressor/no recall/heat of combat stuff would need to go out the window. In the old days, if you were out hunting alone and saw a bunch of red names approaching, you could recall out before getting ganked. Heck, I never even wanted to play a mage, but recall was essential for survival in the really early days.

Thats why I suggested, as a form of PK' control (blues), that if you are blue have zero murdercounts then you can recall away at anytime from anywhere if someone flags on you, IF you have even one murder count you would not be so lucky. If you Flag on anyone then the ability to recall/gate go's on a timer. its another way to make people think about if its worth killing this A**hat.
 

Kaleb

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We dont have to go all the way back to houses needing to be locked to be safe. I could easily comprimise by putting in the system that was around between this and aos, where house lockdowns and secures increased, secure containers were exactly that, secure. No one could open them unless they were friended/co-owened etc.... And there were a good ammount of lock downs. So the keys at this point were purely to lock up your house if you just didnt want people in there killing you or you wanted privacy etc...
Thats what I have been pushing for this whole time. Keys are only used to secure your home doors for the most part.

And on the other hand I dont like the fact that if your being ganked you cant run into your own house to escape if you attacked first.
Just dont attack, In yew I dont attack any of the house fighters, 90% of the time they wont attack for fear of not being able to run to their house lol. Its pretty comical to be blue and having 1/2 dozen reds around you trying to taunt you into attacking them, but not attacking you for fear of not being able to run into their/their guild houses lol.
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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Yeah thats crazy... people are so coward these days...

Man I used to hunt deep in anti-virtue dungeons against groups of players with tamers, and my head was worth 4000$ USD...

I did go to fel recently and see who was there, naked with nothing...

There is a trend, that they kill everyone in sight, even noobs. Then they rez them to kill them again and tell them how stupid they are.

Then you know you tell yourself, well I'm not that stupid, cause he's not having fun , and I'm laughing at the situation. I tought it was just some of them... but no, most of them do it ; so my eperiment concluded.

A classic shard wouldn't have any BAN function in houses, and apart from storage in a larger guild that can afford patrols and guards, your house shouldn't be safer than it already was, or the fun is ruined.

Think about it... a mage can cast firefields and fireballs but he cannot harm a wall of your house ! So stop complaining about house security. Keep your worthy stuff in bank, or deal with a big guild with a secura castle to get your stuff stored for a price, adds to the RP, adds to realism. I don't mind about deco items, even if they are rare to be locked down, as long as it dosen't affect gameplay.

Oh and about all names... if you had your finger on the right spot, and pressed it often, you could see the names of incoming players, not from far away tho... but it was enough to recall.

No way I will play on a server with secure containers... or if they are allowed as I said earlier, the guild would have to have a certain number of active players in order to justify a MAGIC lock on a room, NOT a SYSTEM LOCK... thats also breakable if the guild RP plotline gets in jeopardy with some other "evil" guild.

Of course a classic shard requires lots of staff, dedicated staff that can manually play with those switches and buffers.

Not a bunch of self-absobed e-bay sellers like in the day... don't get me wrong it could have been great, but greed got the best of all of them, and the issue is still being ignored.
 

Kaleb

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You wouldnt play a shard with secure containers, But most everyone else wont play one with out them.
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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Thing is , I got solutions for this that I mentioned but everyone will be ignoring them like usual.

So most likely I will be the one who won't be playing, cause I invested thousands of dollars in this company just to watch them feed corrupt satires who make a living out of selling items for real money.

Either way, a locked down table blocking the path is as unrealist and anti-classic as it gets.

If the freakin table is pinned down to the ground with nails, the owner cannot simply de-nail it, run to the other side and then re-nail it while 10 Pks are outside pushing on it at the same time.

If there is no incentive to be a guild and own a castle, the whole point of the classic rules is moot.

You'll get lonely rich players again owning castles and well, being alone and once this gets trendy, you'll lose all dynamism on the shard.

I actually can't beleive I have to write this to explain myself... feel again like I was the only one playing back then and actually having fun.
 

Kaleb

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Secure containers, has absolutely nothing to do with people getting rich, Secure containers were one of the best additions to the game. And to say you spent thousands on the game and so it must be your way is a joke in its self, I have played 12 years I opened my 2nd account during UO:R for a 2nd house in Trammel, and during BOD's had up to 8, Now back down to 2. And there are many, many more either like me or have/had more than me.

People being able to rob someones house was a very stupid system from the get-go, It allowed people to grief other players and caused many to quit. There is a reason they put in secure containers, the population wanted them.
 

Ahuaeyjnkxs

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Yes... and making it thus non-classic.

Because you had something more powerful than magic on your side, this side of realism that made UO what it is was gone.

No more need to pay 1 million gold to a big guild so they get your precious revenge... no more need for community.

you can't have played 12 years and not know this !!!

Ok you might have been angry to be pked and lose your maul of vainq... but thats was minor dynamism. When your guild got their house and ressources looted however, you got magjor dynamism.

Of course you had hacking back then which is my point... you cannot compare how it would be today without people being able to put sacks of flour in front of your house to cast a gate under your door and get in the house in the middle of the night... then sell your stuff on E-BAY.

See I wasn't one of those... the only reason I did some hacking (and everyone now must know I invented the worst hack in UO history, which I am not proud of) was to attract EA's attention to the way they were breaking the game.

I left the day Trammel was invented, and I feel genuine about it.

But then again... if you have such a powerful brain , why don't you invent a way to prevent players form trading items on this server for real money ? Thus saving the integrity of such a server...

why do you ignore my solution to have a room within a guild with a magic lock and supporting RP plotline ?

The only thing I am against is LONE player META-MAGIC security... it's clearly unclassic...
 

Kaleb

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Yes... and making it thus non-classic.

Because you had something more powerful than magic on your side, this side of realism that made UO what it is was gone.

No more need to pay 1 million gold to a big guild so they get your precious revenge... no more need for community.

you can't have played 12 years and not know this !!!

Ok you might have been angry to be pked and lose your maul of vainq... but thats was minor dynamism. When your guild got their house and ressources looted however, you got magjor dynamism.

Of course you had hacking back then which is my point... you cannot compare how it would be today without people being able to put sacks of flour in front of your house to cast a gate under your door and get in the house in the middle of the night... then sell your stuff on E-BAY.

See I wasn't one of those... the only reason I did some hacking (and everyone now must know I invented the worst hack in UO history, which I am not proud of) was to attract EA's attention to the way they were breaking the game.

I left the day Trammel was invented, and I feel genuine about it.

But then again... if you have such a powerful brain , why don't you invent a way to prevent players form trading items on this server for real money ? Thus saving the integrity of such a server...

why do you ignore my solution to have a room within a guild with a magic lock and supporting RP plotline ?

The only thing I am against is LONE player META-MAGIC security... it's clearly unclassic...
There is no way you can prevent anybody from selling anything In any game or on any server, as long as there are Idiots willing to spend RL cash there will be someone willing to sell.

Yes I do remember, I lost a lot of in game friends due to that system. I was only robbed 2-4x in total, People shouldn't be forced to have to join a guild on any shard in UO that has been the UO way forever, Play WoW much?

Want to steal peoples things?, play a thief. end of argument about secure containers.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
I think what Ahu is saying here is that there is no adequate in game fiction to explain why things can be locked down and secured.

I like things to have reasonable explanations as well...but it is a game after all. There isn't, and has never been, an explanation as to how anyone can store a bardiche in a back pack along with 5 or 6 full suits of armor, plus dozens of other times that can include full sized trees rolleyes:

So a certain degree of suspension of disbelief is required.

House security is a must have IMO.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Longest Journey and georgemarvin2001:

You both support a Classic Shard...right?

Then please, before the mods lock this thread, stop launching these personal attacks at one another.

Petra, is there anything we can do to have posts like the ones these two are slinging at one another removed rather than locking the entire thread?

Come on guys...please take this to another thread.
 

Petra Fyde

Peerless Chatterbox
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*sigh*
Looking to see how far back I need to go and where I can logically split them out.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
Compromise:

No access lists, no invisible barriers...but secure containers, re-keyable doors, 'I ban thee', lock downs, and Texas Justice system (you're in my house, you are grey to me)?

Under this system, if someone gets your key, you re-key the door. Problem solved. If they got into your house, they couldn't take anything that was secure or locked down. Just reveal, ban, re-key...if you dont want to kill them that is.


That pretty much just leaves specifics about numbers of lock downs and such, right?

Is there anyone that wouldn't play a Classic Shard because you got 125 lock downs instead of 126?

Probably not.
 

Nugatta

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Just posting to say that I haven't played this game in about 5 years. I heard about the real possibility of a classic shard so decided to come check it out. I would definitely reactivate my account if they did this.
 

Guido_LS

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@georgemarvin2001 -

While I agree, in principle, with going small and hoping for improvements, the pessimist in me (the one that has seen just how EA actually is) worries that, if, by some incredible stroke of luck, they actually give us a classic server, and then, turn around and say -

There it is - it's what you asked for, it's what you get, c'ya...

And they'd pretty much be within their rights to do just that - they gave people what they asked for, no, DEMANDED, right down to the systems they wanted incorporated. As long as it doesn't crash, they are going to be of the opinion that all is great, all is good, time to move on back over to the regular shards...

And that isn't a hypothetical, or even a wild, pull it out of my butt guess - I offer Siege/Mugen for all the proof I need of that. Because I'd be willing to bet that EA/Mythic has NO desire to maintain, and IMPROVE, 3 different ruleset servers. For that matter, I'd be willing to bet that EA doesn't really want to continue with UO...
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

Guest
@georgemarvin2001 -

While I agree, in principle, with going small and hoping for improvements, the pessimist in me (the one that has seen just how EA actually is) worries that, if, by some incredible stroke of luck, they actually give us a classic server, and then, turn around and say -

There it is - it's what you asked for, it's what you get, c'ya...

And they'd pretty much be within their rights to do just that - they gave people what they asked for, no, DEMANDED, right down to the systems they wanted incorporated. As long as it doesn't crash, they are going to be of the opinion that all is great, all is good, time to move on back over to the regular shards...

And that isn't a hypothetical, or even a wild, pull it out of my butt guess - I offer Siege/Mugen for all the proof I need of that. Because I'd be willing to bet that EA/Mythic has NO desire to maintain, and IMPROVE, 3 different ruleset servers. For that matter, I'd be willing to bet that EA doesn't really want to continue with UO...
I think we all need to be realistic here.

*IF* EA does this, they will probably take the path of least resistance (read as cheapest way possible). For them to re-code a server is already a large task, but for them to re-code a server, re-code the monsters from all of the expansions, re-code all of the items from all of the current expansions, re-code housing, re-code this, re-code that...is probably asking too much.

If we pick an era, and agree that if the shard never moves beyond that, especially a launch era or T2A era because of the size and number of creatures etc...then I think our chances of seeing this thing come to fruition are much higher.

Personally, if they handed us a Classic T2A shard with the same rules from that time period, nothing from beyond that, nothing new...and said this is what you get...I would take that over what we have now in a heartbeat and never look back.

A T2A Classic Shard is better than no Classic Shard at all. And like I have repeatedly said to opponents of a Classic Shard...if you don't want to play on it, scroll past it in the list.
 
M

Morgana LeFay (PoV)

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Petra, could this thread be made Sticky so that people don't keep making Classic Shard threads?
 

the 4th man

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Petra, could this thread be made Sticky so that people don't keep making Classic Shard threads?
Or polls.....they're annoying. "If" is the middle word in life, and I hope you guys get what you're praying for......I came along just before AoS, maybe by a few months, so I don't have a history with that.

I've known UO to always have a trammel and a Fel. even on my NES games, where ever they are.......

Let me ask, and this isn't a literal question, how mant players in UO as a whole are asking for a classic shard? This thread has, some 500 respnses but alot are by the same people.

Good luck
and
later
 

Nugatta

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Let me ask, and this isn't a literal question, how mant players in UO as a whole are asking for a classic shard? This thread has, some 500 respnses but alot are by the same people.
I could be wrong, but I think the purpose would be to attract people who don't play anymore, not people who already play.
 
G

georgemarvin2001

Guest
I'll play nice if Longest Journey will. I would rather respond to the issues than a bunch of personal attacks any day. I'm generally pretty civil.

I agree with Morgana, the less work for the devs, the better our chances of getting a classic shard. We can live without a lot of stuff that we might want later, like custom houses, plants, whatever. And the fact is that, if the shard is a real success, of course EA will listen to us when we ask for something. If it's a flop, and only a few people play, then they will just leave it to wither, like Siege today. So the way to get things added would be to actually play on the classic shard.

Making less work for the Devs also includes the work after it is implemented. And T2A era house security caused hundreds of calls to GMs every day, and thousands of closed accounts. They may have just been "whiners", but the truth is that they were taking up a lot of time that GMs could have been using to try to help with real issues. And every lost subscription was real dollars out of EA's pocket.

The fact that there were only 25 lockdowns for small houses during T2A, and there was such a huge land shortage that a lot of people were forced to live in small houses, was what caused the problem in the first place. They could have solved the problem by just increasing the number of lockdowns to something like the number that we have today. Or even half today's level, for that matter.
 

Cardell

Lore Keeper
Stratics Veteran
Stratics Legend
Or polls.....they're annoying. "If" is the middle word in life, and I hope you guys get what you're praying for......I came along just before AoS, maybe by a few months, so I don't have a history with that.

I've known UO to always have a trammel and a Fel. even on my NES games, where ever they are.......

Let me ask, and this isn't a literal question, how mant players in UO as a whole are asking for a classic shard? This thread has, some 500 respnses but alot are by the same people.

Good luck
and
later
Most of the people who play the game know better than to waste their times on the forums. The devs have never listened and most likely never will.

So to say their isn't enough support because the forums aren't seeing 392938874892349 posts doesn't say ****.
 
G

georgemarvin2001

Guest
@The 4th Man: Part of it is to please those of us who still play. But the big reason to make a classic shard would be to woo back some of the half-million people who still play a T2A version of UO on free shards. The 3,000 people who have viewed this forum are mostly current players. UO doesn't make a dime by making a classic shard to please us. The way EA makes a profit by giving us a free shard is if it gets back even 10% of the people who are playing on T2A era free shards where there are populations like this ONE free shard's:
 

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