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BlackMagus
Guest
What is classic? 
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Classic Shard
- Thread starter BlackMagus
- Start date
- Watchers 5
- Status
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canary
Guest
Hard call, my OPINION is a mish mash of things.
I chose 'Pub16' although Tram was already in play. The change of the armor and weapon systems along with the addition of scrolls seemed to really change the notion of 'classic' to me.
I chose 'Pub16' although Tram was already in play. The change of the armor and weapon systems along with the addition of scrolls seemed to really change the notion of 'classic' to me.
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Trebr Drab
Guest
It is tough to call. I chose "long term murder count" because I consider that sort of change to be to the basic classic client (even though it didn't work due to some loopholes). Once they added Trammel and basically added a PvP switch, that changed the game entirely.
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Beer_Cayse
Guest
I chose Pub 16, Pre-AOS. With crap PvP skills I'm a Trammy but I think Tram coulda been better implementation.
However as someone else remarked, AoS pretty much killed the UO that I really liked. It was those days that resist, arms lore, item id had some meaning in the day to day like of a player.
I'd give up the custom housing and other AOS bells & whistles for something in this timeframe.
However as someone else remarked, AoS pretty much killed the UO that I really liked. It was those days that resist, arms lore, item id had some meaning in the day to day like of a player.
I'd give up the custom housing and other AOS bells & whistles for something in this timeframe.
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Lady_Mina
Guest
The biggest problem is simply insurance...
Back in the days when you a had a Vanq weapon wich was worth 40k , wich was SUPER expensive back then.
But it was risk vs reward...blues were willingly to go red just to loot that vanq and resell it.
So taking that pretty vanq to fell was at own risk.
Now it's all like 'tumtidum , here i am dressed in my 100mill worth suit , parading around'. it's insured anyways so why should they fear dieing or losing it?
Back in the days when you a had a Vanq weapon wich was worth 40k , wich was SUPER expensive back then.
But it was risk vs reward...blues were willingly to go red just to loot that vanq and resell it.
So taking that pretty vanq to fell was at own risk.
Now it's all like 'tumtidum , here i am dressed in my 100mill worth suit , parading around'. it's insured anyways so why should they fear dieing or losing it?
P16 would seem to give everyone a little bit of todays UO without the dreaded AOS!!
Any classic shard is going to need a Trammel in order to attract the maximum amount of players possible.
Any classic shard is going to need a Trammel in order to attract the maximum amount of players possible.
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Rainfo X
Guest
Id prefer pre-Pub 16, but after Trammel. That was the sweet spot imo and still very classic. Maybe a pre-Trammel shard too for the old school and chaos of it all. IMO Pub 16 and onwards is not classic!
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Malimus
Guest
No tram and no AoS... Thats all i really care about.
Publish 5 (Trammel) When being a 7X gm ment something. We even had POWER HOUR too. And lets not forget about being able to cut up player corpses.
I can't choose any of them. It was a little after release. Although, to me everything was dope up until tram came out.
Well tbh. When I see someone from 'the old days' on ICQ its the ancient pvpers from precast insta hit days.. Before tram, there is only 1 or 2 folks that I know of that still log on that I played with straight out of release.
The insta hit days were the best imho. Maybe it was just he peak of the GvG on Chessy but those seemed to be the biggest pvp days. Where few guilds could field more than 6 or 7 at a time but there were several small guilds continually fighting in all cities. Each small guild claimed a city or a part of the city. The fighting was unreal. It was like gangs... East Brit was owned by 1 or 2 guilds and West brit was just a complete **** show. Brit GY was a orgy of thieves, noobs, oranges and reds... it was almost a non stop royal rumble on the weekends.
No guilds were completely allied but you saw them teaming up against the bigger guilds.. Groups would roll through Brit bank, checking for oranges. All sporting their chaos or order shields and magic armor. There were tournaments almost every week, that had great turn outs every time.
When you got caught in the middle of a fight it was unbelievable. Thinking back, obviously playing it before, I realize how simple the combat was, compared the combat today. But it still seemed more chaotic. The templates back then were just more entertaining. DP dexers, Tank Mages, healer mages, parry dexers, a tamer here and there with a drag. Holy **** man. Thinking back to it, I remember all these names of pvpers I used to get rolled by.
God, I hope this **** comes out..
*edit* Oh I voted for March 1999 b/c it was after a lot of the small bugs were fixed that initially came with the release but still before pub 2 that ruined pre casting and insta hit.
Well tbh. When I see someone from 'the old days' on ICQ its the ancient pvpers from precast insta hit days.. Before tram, there is only 1 or 2 folks that I know of that still log on that I played with straight out of release.
The insta hit days were the best imho. Maybe it was just he peak of the GvG on Chessy but those seemed to be the biggest pvp days. Where few guilds could field more than 6 or 7 at a time but there were several small guilds continually fighting in all cities. Each small guild claimed a city or a part of the city. The fighting was unreal. It was like gangs... East Brit was owned by 1 or 2 guilds and West brit was just a complete **** show. Brit GY was a orgy of thieves, noobs, oranges and reds... it was almost a non stop royal rumble on the weekends.
No guilds were completely allied but you saw them teaming up against the bigger guilds.. Groups would roll through Brit bank, checking for oranges. All sporting their chaos or order shields and magic armor. There were tournaments almost every week, that had great turn outs every time.
When you got caught in the middle of a fight it was unbelievable. Thinking back, obviously playing it before, I realize how simple the combat was, compared the combat today. But it still seemed more chaotic. The templates back then were just more entertaining. DP dexers, Tank Mages, healer mages, parry dexers, a tamer here and there with a drag. Holy **** man. Thinking back to it, I remember all these names of pvpers I used to get rolled by.
God, I hope this **** comes out..
*edit* Oh I voted for March 1999 b/c it was after a lot of the small bugs were fixed that initially came with the release but still before pub 2 that ruined pre casting and insta hit.
lol getting rid of cutting up corpses almost made me cry. I miss my heads on my house floor.
*tear*
I couldn't disagree more. In order to bring players back, "a little bit of today's UO" isn't going to cut it. Speaking for a few of my friends who used to play UO, if I tell them that there is a new server being created that includes Trammel, they are going to dismiss it immediately. The only thing that would bring them back is a pre-Trammel ruleset.
There was still insta hit for awhile after pre-casting was gone, and I think PvP was just fine without it until insta hit was removed.
Didn't vote but this is what I think.
I'm talking about the current players that STILL support this game with their money! If there was to be a classic shard that had some resemblance to what we are used to playing now, then I reckon more would be interested.
If you think that a lot of todays players are going to log in to a Fell only ruleset shard and actually stick with it for longer than a week, then you are seriously mistaken pal!
If we are just going to rely entirely on the old skool pvpers from yester-year returning to play this shard long term, then I seriously doubt that would generate enough revenue for EA to consider supporting it.
Having played since 1998, I remember the bad days, and much as I like to PvP and today have houses in both lands, I wouldn't fancy a pre Trammel classic shard.
How many of these threads do we need before people wake up and realize its never going to happen because it isnt a financially viable option for UO?
The skeleton crew Dev Team can't even finish an expansion, finish a 3 year old 'new' client, adequately support the Siege/Mugen ruleset, or communicate in a meaningful way with their p(l)ayers.
Stop trying to split the focus of what few people DO work on this game with the moronic idea of a 'classic' shard thats never going to happen, and you all damn well know it.
The skeleton crew Dev Team can't even finish an expansion, finish a 3 year old 'new' client, adequately support the Siege/Mugen ruleset, or communicate in a meaningful way with their p(l)ayers.
Stop trying to split the focus of what few people DO work on this game with the moronic idea of a 'classic' shard thats never going to happen, and you all damn well know it.
let us dream god dammit.
I don't think they would, but the key is that they are "today's players", meaning that EA is getting their money with or without a classic shard. The financial incentive in creating a classic shard is to bring in new (or returning) players.
If you think that a lot of todays players are going to log in to a Fel only ruleset shard and actually stick with it for longer than a week, then you are seriously mistaken pal!
There.. Now, you see how opinions work? Just because you saying something doesn't mean its a fact.
Now I don't know how long u have been playing.. but most of my friends that quit of the last 11 years left because the game lost its luster with all the bull**** changes and powder puff facets. Not because there was another game they wanted to play more... Is it a fact that all these people will come back, NO! I couldn't say it is, but I can say it will take significantly less people to fill up a classic shard with no facets other than Britiannia than it will to fill up a current shard. It would just take a lot less people to make things work..
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BlackMagus
Guest
QFT
Anyways: Who can guarantee if it works, or doesn't? I don't care - let Mythic dust off an old source code revision, backport the dupe fixes, launch the stuff and the party will be rolling...
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Punkte
Guest
Dev Team - Give us an update! Anymore lunch time talks about this??
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canary
Guest
LOL @ punkte: If it happens it is going to take some time. He just mentioned it as 'something discussed casually' only this past week.
QFT
Anyways: Who can guarantee if it works, or doesn't? I don't care - let Mythic dust off an old source code revision, backport the dupe fixes, launch the stuff and the party will be rolling...
Wait, you think they saved server code from 10 years ago and can just 'turn it on'?
Sorry, that’s HILARIOUS! They lost the art assets for the 2D client several years back. They lost much of BNN, and only recently found it. Go ask a Siege player if they feel their alternative ruleset shard has been adequately supported and maintained over the years. I'll wait.
Seriously, a classic shard isn't going to save UO by bringing back old people, or getting the attention of new players. It’s only going to dilute what little resources the CURRENT game has, and magnify Mythic's glaring inability to properly test their publishes.
You all need to take a step back from Cal's dangled carrot and see it for what it really is, complete and utter spin doctor BS. He's distracted you with his shiny keys while picking your pocket.
If you want UO to be a good game, hold them to the same professional standards other successful game companies seem to manage. Honest communication and real responses to our questions/concerns, not the complete fluff they seem content to respond to.
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Sadrith Mora
Guest
Seriously, is there really a need for a classic shard? How many would actually stick with it knowing it will remain in a static state?
How many of the current playerbase look forward to new things to do? There has to be continued progression to keep most players interest.
Sure, there are some things i would love to have back from the past. Some being friends, but also the way armor used to work. I miss the days with knights in shining plate or chainmail armor, because armor made sense back then. Artifacts replace this today with simple furry head gear. (i.e. Spirit of the totem, for example)
Who wouldn't want that skinned animal wrapped around your head! It's awesome. I just don't understand why it's not a plate, chain, or heck even studded armor piece with the mods it has. To me that would make more sense, and it actually irritates me because of it.
I prefer things to be on the more realistic side as much as possible, if at all possible, because i believe it can add more immersion to the game whereas things that are so borderline absurd can't because of it's unrealistic properties.
With Imbuing though, i can make my knight in shining plate armor now if i really wanted to, but i would probably be laughed at because of the weight problems with platemail, and the expense it would cost to do it.
Hmmm... I guess it would be for show only in today's UO. rolleyes:
So yeah, that's what i miss about the past, but in all honesty, UO is a much better game today overall than it ever was. (for the most part!)
Yes, i would make a char on a classic shard and play for probably... a good week, before realizing all the cool things that have been added over the years, which would make me want to go back to my main shard and look forward to new (or past) things being planned for future updates.
How many of the current playerbase look forward to new things to do? There has to be continued progression to keep most players interest.
Sure, there are some things i would love to have back from the past. Some being friends, but also the way armor used to work. I miss the days with knights in shining plate or chainmail armor, because armor made sense back then. Artifacts replace this today with simple furry head gear. (i.e. Spirit of the totem, for example)
Who wouldn't want that skinned animal wrapped around your head! It's awesome. I just don't understand why it's not a plate, chain, or heck even studded armor piece with the mods it has. To me that would make more sense, and it actually irritates me because of it.
I prefer things to be on the more realistic side as much as possible, if at all possible, because i believe it can add more immersion to the game whereas things that are so borderline absurd can't because of it's unrealistic properties.
With Imbuing though, i can make my knight in shining plate armor now if i really wanted to, but i would probably be laughed at because of the weight problems with platemail, and the expense it would cost to do it.
Hmmm... I guess it would be for show only in today's UO. rolleyes:
So yeah, that's what i miss about the past, but in all honesty, UO is a much better game today overall than it ever was. (for the most part!)
Yes, i would make a char on a classic shard and play for probably... a good week, before realizing all the cool things that have been added over the years, which would make me want to go back to my main shard and look forward to new (or past) things being planned for future updates.
Whats wrong with a static state? If the game wasn't good in the first place no one would have played it back then.. No one started playing UO and said,, hey they'll make it better in 6 years.. If you ask me if the game is better of how it is now or how it was.. I'd have to say it was better back in the day and the game has only degressed...
Who said it had to be static?
How many people look for new things? Look/waiting for new things because you're bored is one thing, looking for new things because the current things suck is another. Compared to what the game WAS, the current sucks.. It sucks so bad we dont want NEW.. We want OLD... Bring back the good game for those who want it. For those who don't... keep playing in your Uber Item, Economy Inflated, Thinnly populated game you are currently playing.. No one is making u play the server.. But there is plenty of interest in a classic server for those who are miserable and have been for a long time with the current stat of the game.
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AesSedai
Guest
- I disagree.
Since you are apparently an old player, you must have heard of the term 'churn'; many people quit playing it back then while many others started giving, what was essentially completely new in video gaming at the time, UO a try.
Many if not most expected things to change somewhat, hopefully continually to a certain degree, hopefully for the better, when they started playing UO - if you recall that's a significant part of what made UO different from other games at the time ~ in addition to other reasons, many of us paid money monthly for our gaming experience to change during online play.
And by definition that is in direct conflict with your initial statement ~many did not expect a static environment in this new medium of online gameplay, heck many demanded change from before day 1~ (which the rest of your post seems to admit to, as I don't feel even you would be content if a new shard was set and forgotten. And along that line, even if nobody currently paying for UO visited a new-old shard, they would still suffer due to a diversion of resources that are currently being spent on trying to improve what currently is UO)...
x: btw, nothing at all wrong with dreaming.
But trying to bring what is -now- more inline with what you like about the past just might go a lot further than trying to resurrect the past at the expense of the payers that have supported UO to this point; the current payers that have made it possible for you to even dream of a different UO in the future. Once more, if resources were unlimited I would say yes to resurrecting classic UO in a heartbeat, as only then would it truly have zero affect on current players; but that will never be the case.
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Sadrith Mora
Guest
Cardell,
Thanks for your reply. I know you are into PvP, but i have to ask: Do you think past PvP is better than today?
In some ways it was lots of fun, but for me the past was rather simplistic.
People like to argue skill vs. items today, but there really is more personal skill involved today than just having items. You have to understand the game today, have a good connection, AND have the items. Skill as in personal understanding with what is going on, and how to play a particular character type.
I was in my PvP prime back in 1999-2000. I was so into it then. I loved the Expl/FS/Hally combo, but what else was there to pvp? Having high resist vs. newbs that didn't to call yourself uber? Was having higher skills than others what you miss?
5 years ago i would have loved to have a classic shard available, but today i couldn't care any less... mainly because of all the cool features that have been added to the game over the years.
Like i said in my previous post, there are only a couple things i really miss from the past, and for good reason.
Thanks for your reply. I know you are into PvP, but i have to ask: Do you think past PvP is better than today?
In some ways it was lots of fun, but for me the past was rather simplistic.
People like to argue skill vs. items today, but there really is more personal skill involved today than just having items. You have to understand the game today, have a good connection, AND have the items. Skill as in personal understanding with what is going on, and how to play a particular character type.
I was in my PvP prime back in 1999-2000. I was so into it then. I loved the Expl/FS/Hally combo, but what else was there to pvp? Having high resist vs. newbs that didn't to call yourself uber? Was having higher skills than others what you miss?
5 years ago i would have loved to have a classic shard available, but today i couldn't care any less... mainly because of all the cool features that have been added to the game over the years.
Like i said in my previous post, there are only a couple things i really miss from the past, and for good reason.
ABSOLUTELY. The game back then was MUCH MUCH better. I would never say the complete game back then was perfect. Nor would I say the complete game currently is crap. The vast majority of it is.. definitely.. I understand that there needs to be new things to so the experience never goes stale. It would take a real jack ass to not see these things. But when you break down what the game was back then.. how it worked.. its better than what we have.
The game we have now.. is so deep in doo doo its disgusting. The items over skill is a huge issue.. Absolutely.. but its minor compared to the other things. The economy on every shard, no matter how big or little is jacked up the ass. ****ed beyond Jenna Jamisons wildest imaginations.. The priorities in the market are as ass backwards as you can make them..
The population is so spread out its pathetic.. you can walk from any town to another in fel and not see a single person. There is not a community like there was back in the day because the population is so spread out, displaced and people can go days with out ever running into other people unless you go to luna bank. Back in the day you used to walk out ur front door and see people.. Fights at brit GY, Brit X Roads (east and west), fights at ALL of the dungeons, fights in ALL of the towns, fights at dozens of guildhouses. The game was played all over the entire map of Britannia, Now.. Pvp is at the gates and champs spawns.. Before, You couldn't help but run into people, whether you made friends or enemies was all up to you.. but you saw more action, what ever it was. Its lame as **** fighting at the same god damn Yew gate on 4 different servers. Its asinine that it ever got this bad and no one ever did anything about it. Letting people poor out of Fel killed the best part of the game... the community.
When I take it ALL into consideration.. THE PVP was better because the game was better. The economy was great, armor and weapons were being constantly circulated, nothing was really too expensive or too cheap.. The good armor cost enough to have to make an effort to get it and the normal weapons and armor was affordable and as useful as you needed to compete. The game never got stale because you never stopped running into fights or hunting parties or things to do with your guild. You constantly involved with the other people in the game. The pvp was simple but demanding of skill. Their still was creative templates, harder to use but giving you an edge in one way or another. It took WAY WAY WAY more skill to be good back in the day and no one could ever complain, we were all on the same playing field when it came to armor and weapons. That's not the case now. If you're armor is up to par, you're screwed.
You're no better than the folks that quit because the game got unbarably bad just because you still play. The people who played hung on as long as they could, if the game sucks to them, it sucks to them. You can't blame them for that. Thats just silly.
The current payers haven't made **** possible for me. I've strived to keep the factions (which should have been fixed a long time ago) alive, asking for only fixes. The current payers didn't do **** to help me. The current payers sit in tram and circle jerk all day over their leet purple doggies with wings n ****. If the majority of tram stood up and sad, "****! look at those faction folk, struggling to get their game play fixed, hey devs you should help them..." Than the current payers would have made something possible for me. But they didn't. When given the chance to fix the factions 98% of the focus group consisted of jerk offs who never even played them. Those changes went in the game (AGAINST the experienced faction players in the focus group) and look at the ****ing mess the factions are now. I can thank the current payers for not shutting the **** up.. really thanks.. I owe you for ****ing my situation more than it was already ****ed.
But yeah, I can understand you aren't against a Classic Shard, just devoting a portion of the skeleton crew to making it. But You have look at it from my point of view. It has gotten worse and worse every patch for 5 years now? I, and I'm sure their are others, don't want to move into any other directions from this point. I want to jump back and go back to the hay day.. Where it was simple and **** worked.. Log on, fight, talk, fight, log off.
S
Sadrith Mora
Guest
I respect the way you feel, but there are other issues to be seriously considered as well...
http://www.vg247.com/2010/01/20/source-bethesdas-elder-scrolls-mmo-missed-its-2009-reveal/
If Zenimax Media/Bethesda Softworks, Inc. decides to release an Elder Scrolls Online, it is going to be gigantic to say the least. Of course, it's still somewhat speculation, but probably more than that at this point. Zenimax has had over 100 employees since 2006 working on a secret online game. Take a wild guess what that might be? The head of Zenimax online is none other than the ex-producer of DAOC, (Mythic) btw.
You think WoW was impressive?
If UO is going to concentrate on things like bringing back a classic shard instead of furthering the current game in anyway it can, then we may lose a heck of a lot more people in the near future.
It's about paying customers, not just what a certain small niche of players want...
I would hate to see UO decide to finally pack it in... especially when there is so much more that could be done to this game to keep it alive and prospering.
Take care...
http://www.vg247.com/2010/01/20/source-bethesdas-elder-scrolls-mmo-missed-its-2009-reveal/
If Zenimax Media/Bethesda Softworks, Inc. decides to release an Elder Scrolls Online, it is going to be gigantic to say the least. Of course, it's still somewhat speculation, but probably more than that at this point. Zenimax has had over 100 employees since 2006 working on a secret online game. Take a wild guess what that might be? The head of Zenimax online is none other than the ex-producer of DAOC, (Mythic) btw.
You think WoW was impressive?
If UO is going to concentrate on things like bringing back a classic shard instead of furthering the current game in anyway it can, then we may lose a heck of a lot more people in the near future.
It's about paying customers, not just what a certain small niche of players want...
I would hate to see UO decide to finally pack it in... especially when there is so much more that could be done to this game to keep it alive and prospering.
Take care...
That's not a good argument if you ask me. I think a classic shard will bring people back and give some older players a really fun experience reliving some of the best fights in the game. I don't care about other games.. or when they come out.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
To those against a Classic Shard:
This is not about you...for once. There are, and have been, Ultima Online players that enjoyed Pre UO:R, Pre AOS. Some of them left. Some of them stay, but are on the verge of quitting.
Every expansion since T2A has been about you. All of them. You have gotten more than the classic player ever did.
Just this once, think outside of yourself for a moment. Let these players have their shard. No one is going to force you onto it. No one is going to take away what you have. It will be just another shard on the list that you don't play. It will not affect you. There is nothing in the UO pipeline at the moment that needs the attention of the devs greatly, a new expansion was just launched. You got all kinds of content and items and even a new client out of that. But what did the classic player get? What did those of us that enjoyed UO the way it was before all of these expansions and changes came get? Empty towns. Empty land masses. More of what we never wanted to begin with.
Just think of the bigger picture for one moment. This is not going to change your game play at all. This is not going to cost you anything. It will simply be an option for people that you generally would not wish to associate with in the first place.
For the devs, it will be a blank slate. A do over. A chance to take a path that was not taken. A chance to do something truly unique, and see where that goes.
I have seen where opponents have called a Classic Shard a 'waste' of time and resources...but what they are really saying is that a Classic Shard would represent a commitment of time and resources that they themselves would not benefit from. And the selfish me, me, me, attitude of these players is what led us to the need for a classic shard in the first place.
Devs:
Just think for a moment what the possibilities and options are. Right now, UO is dying. Some people will tell you it isn't, but the truth is, it is dying. People are leaving. They are bored with the status quo, the graphic engine is not going to change without creating a new game, and new games appear every day. Right now, another expansion would only attract players that are currently paying to play. In fact, it might actually serve to drive away paying subscribers because they feel the futility of trying to keep up with a pay-to-play model in the form of almost required expansions. Take a look at the market that you have not tapped into. Old players, current players, and even new players, that are looking for something different from the games that currently flood the shelves.
UO once was something that no other game could even approximate. Currently, the UO experience is basically like every other MMORPG out there, but with houses and bad graphics. Is this really a model that can last? What makes anyone believe that UO, in its present state, can compete on the scale it needs to compete, with games like World of WarCraft, AION, and several games that are on the horizon like Star Wars Galaxies??
Be realistic. This game either has to change, or die...and it is not going to change into something similar to WoW that is competitive. That time has past.
This is not about you...for once. There are, and have been, Ultima Online players that enjoyed Pre UO:R, Pre AOS. Some of them left. Some of them stay, but are on the verge of quitting.
Every expansion since T2A has been about you. All of them. You have gotten more than the classic player ever did.
Just this once, think outside of yourself for a moment. Let these players have their shard. No one is going to force you onto it. No one is going to take away what you have. It will be just another shard on the list that you don't play. It will not affect you. There is nothing in the UO pipeline at the moment that needs the attention of the devs greatly, a new expansion was just launched. You got all kinds of content and items and even a new client out of that. But what did the classic player get? What did those of us that enjoyed UO the way it was before all of these expansions and changes came get? Empty towns. Empty land masses. More of what we never wanted to begin with.
Just think of the bigger picture for one moment. This is not going to change your game play at all. This is not going to cost you anything. It will simply be an option for people that you generally would not wish to associate with in the first place.
For the devs, it will be a blank slate. A do over. A chance to take a path that was not taken. A chance to do something truly unique, and see where that goes.
I have seen where opponents have called a Classic Shard a 'waste' of time and resources...but what they are really saying is that a Classic Shard would represent a commitment of time and resources that they themselves would not benefit from. And the selfish me, me, me, attitude of these players is what led us to the need for a classic shard in the first place.
Devs:
Just think for a moment what the possibilities and options are. Right now, UO is dying. Some people will tell you it isn't, but the truth is, it is dying. People are leaving. They are bored with the status quo, the graphic engine is not going to change without creating a new game, and new games appear every day. Right now, another expansion would only attract players that are currently paying to play. In fact, it might actually serve to drive away paying subscribers because they feel the futility of trying to keep up with a pay-to-play model in the form of almost required expansions. Take a look at the market that you have not tapped into. Old players, current players, and even new players, that are looking for something different from the games that currently flood the shelves.
UO once was something that no other game could even approximate. Currently, the UO experience is basically like every other MMORPG out there, but with houses and bad graphics. Is this really a model that can last? What makes anyone believe that UO, in its present state, can compete on the scale it needs to compete, with games like World of WarCraft, AION, and several games that are on the horizon like Star Wars Galaxies??
Be realistic. This game either has to change, or die...and it is not going to change into something similar to WoW that is competitive. That time has past.
A
AesSedai
Guest
- I disagree.
So I'll just question a few of the commonly made points, once again, and then let the rally for classic continue without any more discussion from me (at least until a Dev. makes another comment on the subject)
- This will affect everyone that contemplates participating in UO, if only initially due to the resources required just to re-create a classic shard; that's not even considering the required maintenance that will have to be devoted to it in the future. As well, there are many things in the UO pipeline that need great attention... no more proof is needed other than reminding you that many were mentioned in the recent letter from Cal & the following posts about it here.
- You could easily replace 'classic shard' with 'Trammel' in that sentence and it would be the baseline fact behind the need for Trammel in the first place. 'Just think of the bigger picture for one moment' & think of what it was in history that brought us to this point, in the first place.
- I agree. But going back to the past that had to change because it failed is not much of a beneficial change.
Disclaimer: If EA at a minimum doubled the amount of resources that it gave UO last year, then I'd say sure throw those dice and let's see what happens (although I would still contend that those additional resources would be better spent by improving what is rather than making more to account for... now if EA quadrupled the resources and duly convinced our Dev team that they would support UO solidly for at least 3 years of experimenting, then I would certainly agree with the thought of placing a bet on incorporating some classic shards).
C
canary
Guest
Morgana, that was the funniest. Post. Ever. Thank you for the laugh.
BTW, I _am_ the 'classic player', as is anyone who was around before the dawn of Trammel, imo.
You are deluded if you believe that a Classic shard is what will 'save' UO. And yes, I WOULD try a Classic shard... but only if I felt that: 1) the team could pull it off correctly, and 2) if resources were not taken at the expense of the development of the current game. I don't have faith in either, and as such would not support them creating one unless I felt otherwise.
I'm not sure where you buy your rose colored glasses, but I don't do discount.
BTW, I _am_ the 'classic player', as is anyone who was around before the dawn of Trammel, imo.
You are deluded if you believe that a Classic shard is what will 'save' UO. And yes, I WOULD try a Classic shard... but only if I felt that: 1) the team could pull it off correctly, and 2) if resources were not taken at the expense of the development of the current game. I don't have faith in either, and as such would not support them creating one unless I felt otherwise.
I'm not sure where you buy your rose colored glasses, but I don't do discount.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
Canary:
Define "save" UO, and please point to any post I have ever made that stated that a classic shard would "save" UO.
UO is dying. It has been dying since about the time EverQuest launched. It's a slow death, but make no mistake, it is dying. It cannot last forever. Nothing does.
The only thing I think a classic shard would do is to offer those players that left, and those that don't want to play a WoW clone, an alternative for a while.
Nothing can stem the tide of time.
Rose colored glasses are for idiots that cannot understand what they read. I assume you had yours on when you read my posts.
Define "save" UO, and please point to any post I have ever made that stated that a classic shard would "save" UO.
UO is dying. It has been dying since about the time EverQuest launched. It's a slow death, but make no mistake, it is dying. It cannot last forever. Nothing does.
The only thing I think a classic shard would do is to offer those players that left, and those that don't want to play a WoW clone, an alternative for a while.
Nothing can stem the tide of time.
Rose colored glasses are for idiots that cannot understand what they read. I assume you had yours on when you read my posts.
Def '99. Pub 16 is classic in its own right but if you make a new shard w/ Trammel what's the point?What is classic?
T
Trebr Drab
Guest
I think UO could save itself indefinitely. Going back to a classic based idea is the first start. UO has become more like the other games (grind) and lost what it was about to one degree or another (sandbox, social interaction, lore, etc.) and that's where it needs to go back to.
The next thing they need to do is develop a really good 3D new client. This needs to be in the over the shoulder view for now due to tech restrictions. But at some point, if they can keep UO going, I think it would be possible to take that 3D and transform it into a full 3D game, with all the game play of classic UO.
There's no reason why UO has to die. But they need to be that "sandbox" that so many gamers are looking for, without the problems they currently have.
The next thing they need to do is develop a really good 3D new client. This needs to be in the over the shoulder view for now due to tech restrictions. But at some point, if they can keep UO going, I think it would be possible to take that 3D and transform it into a full 3D game, with all the game play of classic UO.
There's no reason why UO has to die. But they need to be that "sandbox" that so many gamers are looking for, without the problems they currently have.
M
Morgana LeFay (PoV)
Guest
I think that it probably will though. No one still plays computer games from the 1990s.
When was the last time you booted up Doom, X-Wing, or Wing Commander II?
All video games have a lifespan...all of them. They will always have die hard fans that play them for nostalgia, but I cannot think of any computer game/video game that has not given way to sequels, or other games that are more advanced. It is the nature of gaming.
H
Heartseeker
Guest
You just can't resist can you.- I disagree.
So I'll just question a few of the commonly made points, once again, and then let the rally for classic continue without any more discussion from me (at least until a Dev. makes another comment on the subject)- This will affect everyone that contemplates participating in UO, if only initially due to the resources required just to re-create a classic shard; that's not even considering the required maintenance that will have to be devoted to it in the future. As well, there are many things in the UO pipeline that need great attention... no more proof is needed other than reminding you that many were mentioned in the recent letter from Cal & the following posts about it here.- You could easily replace 'classic shard' with 'Trammel' in that sentence and it would be the baseline fact behind the need for Trammel in the first place. 'Just think of the bigger picture for one moment' & think of what it was in history that brought us to this point, in the first place.- I agree. But going back to the past that had to change because it failed is not much of a beneficial change.
Disclaimer: If EA at a minimum doubled the amount of resources that it gave UO last year, then I'd say sure throw those dice and let's see what happens (although I would still contend that those additional resources would be better spent by improving what is rather than making more to account for... now if EA quadrupled the resources and duly convinced our Dev team that they would support UO solidly for at least 3 years of experimenting, then I would certainly agree with the thought of placing a bet on incorporating some classic shards).
You always have something to say, even when Morgana said that it wasn't up to you.
We know your opinion and we don't care.
Give every person the opportunity to have something that excites them; eg. a different playing experience.
Keep the long winded crap out of this discussion, and try to be a little less selfish than you usually are.
thx.
OMG this nonsense about 'going back to a classic shard' must die. Pub 16 was a LONG time ago, and frankly 99% of the playerbase DOES NOT WANT a pre-trammel UO.
UO needs to move forward, not take a DeLorean into the past to get pwned.
The population on Siege is TINY, and it doesn't get the support it needs.
Yet another ruleset will only draw a FEW people for any length of time, while it sucks the obviously limited resources away from the game as a whole.
The fact that any of you people are even buying into the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS B.S. distraction of Cal's post shows a severe disconnect with reality. This shard will never happen, it was meant to keep people interested and hanging on for a few more months.
Seriously when has "we're thinking about this" or "its coming soon" EVER become a reality?
Forget the rose colored glasses and put down the crack pipe.
UO needs to move forward, not take a DeLorean into the past to get pwned.
The population on Siege is TINY, and it doesn't get the support it needs.
Yet another ruleset will only draw a FEW people for any length of time, while it sucks the obviously limited resources away from the game as a whole.
The fact that any of you people are even buying into the BLATANTLY OBVIOUS B.S. distraction of Cal's post shows a severe disconnect with reality. This shard will never happen, it was meant to keep people interested and hanging on for a few more months.
Seriously when has "we're thinking about this" or "its coming soon" EVER become a reality?
Forget the rose colored glasses and put down the crack pipe.
It doesn't matter whether there's ever a "classic shard" or not?
UO is the GAME THAT WILL NOT DIE!
EA/Mythic could get 10x the players that have quit by finishing the EC, putting a stop to speeding and cheating, improving customer service both ingame and out and by advertising the game with a constant presence on store shelves and game websites.
If they did that, there would be plenty of resources to attempt a "classic shard' without seriously detracting from the contemporary shards.
UO is the GAME THAT WILL NOT DIE!
EA/Mythic could get 10x the players that have quit by finishing the EC, putting a stop to speeding and cheating, improving customer service both ingame and out and by advertising the game with a constant presence on store shelves and game websites.
If they did that, there would be plenty of resources to attempt a "classic shard' without seriously detracting from the contemporary shards.
P
Punkte
Guest
The past didn't fail so much that it had to change. Are you that naive? The game changed because Ultima Online is owned by a COMPANY that will try to turn a profit every chance it can get, even if that means pumping out new pixel crap every couple of months. If it failed so much, why is this such a hot topic and why are so many people coming out of the woodwork to support it? I know for a fact if they do not follow through on this classic shard idea and "put it to rest" then I will be cancelling my subscription and moving on with my life. The only thing keeping me around is the prospect that this can go back to something that was so great and fun for so many people.
B
BlackMagus
Guest
Contrary to your pure speculative statement, probably heavily colored by personal preference, the current poll results indicate differently.
Btw, I am sure everyone realizes that the stratics community does not reflect 100% of the current player base. OTH, it does reflect a huge number of ex-UO players, and in this light the current poll results are interesting (and for me also a bit surprising in a positive way).
60 votes does not reflect anything. 100K subs Pre-Ren, 250K subs Aos and let us say we have 100K subs now. 60 people are nothing. How many people that play UO now are even on this forum? How many people that play UO now even know what UO started out as? Where are all the old players that lurk these boards input at? How is EA gonna let those old players know about this when they do not advertise.Contrary to your pure speculative statement, probably heavily colored by personal preference, the current poll results indicate differently.
Btw, I am sure everyone realizes that the stratics community does not reflect 100% of the current player base. OTH, it does reflect a huge number of ex-UO players, and in this light the current poll results are interesting (and for me also a bit surprising in a positive way).
M
Mattress Mary
Guest
Well..you said it..you gotta have and have and have...back in the day it didn't take long to 'get' what you needed to play..now if you can get all the items (impossible) or buy all the items (impossible) and learn all the crap ( very few have a complete knowledge, so nearly impossible) you can play with the handful that play well. Every shard has a group all decked out and on their shard is a dead, unpopulated land called Fel. Maintaining and reinventing all your Uber crap and nerfing over powered templetes is the the real resource sucking pig. On the other hand...When I played Chessy years ago, there was Puffy and his ilk...but they were kids then...teens...all grown up now...there are few 'classic' players left to populate a classic shard but for those of us that want one...have wanted one for years (and never asked YOUR ilk to give up Tram) could have had one but for all the Items and Eye candy needed to maintain the Carebear population. So don't give us that old crap about limited resources...what few we're down to are dedicated to rolling out the next Uber Item only to waste more time trying to 'balance' it's effect. I'd like to see a classic shard (1999) and I wouldn't ask you to help populate it if you didn't want to.
B
BlackMagus
Guest
You obviously do not understand statistics or sample sets. 60 votes is surely more representative than a blatant statement how things are deemed to be, and nobody is claiming to execute sound customer study.
OTH I am with you on the advertising thing. Ex players will not return for a classic shard if they know nothing about it, and the word of mouth only brings you so far.
Anyways, I am not trying to assess the financial viability of a classic shard project. I am just looking forward to the fun if it will become reality!
the point is there would not be insurance, armor wouldn't matter much, vanq and power weapons would dominate, you can loot everything off of someone, if a person dies they cannot simply double click their body and get everything from it, looting players bones in Tram, and hopefully the bounty system
B
BlackMagus
Guest
Yay, bounty hunting...
As a 3rd time returning player, having started almost at day 1 -
The first time I quit was because of the free-for-all garbage that went on pre-Tram. There was NO incentive for the average, non-PvP'er to even log in, let alone renew subscriptions.
I came back after Renaissance, and to me, that was probably the best time I have ever had in game. Things were safe if one wanted to stay in Trammel, things were dangerous if you wanted to walk on the wild side that was Felucca, which was basically a mandatory thing if you wanted access to the best vendors, and if you were a crafter, your name meant something.
AoS destroyed that feeling for a lot of people like *ME* - the ones that were basically in the middle of the care-bear/non-con crowd. And like a lot of other folks, I left for greener pastures. And at that time, there WERE greener pastures. Horizons, until the devs got greedy and started actively ripping off the subs... EQ, while lacking in some things (housing being the big one), offering arguably a richer crafting system, albeit significantly more difficult, a little later, Vanguard, which still, IMO, has the richest crafting system, but killed off much of it's own sub base just from the computer required to play it to full advantage...
I did the EQ thing, on and off, for over 9 years. And in the end, what brought me back to UO? Even as *ahem* broken as everyone wants to claim it is, it is still more than the sum of all the other MMO's out there. Real housing options, giving a true sense of ownership in a pixelated world. A crafting system that, with imbuing, is as potent and satisfying as any other out there. No artificial, cookie cutter classes required - you can be what you want to be, in any combination, and still succeed in any way you might choose. And if you choose something different, it's as simple as a soulstone to change. Even just logging in and gardening for an hour or 2 on any given day is far more satisfying than the pure grind of other systems.
So, to me, the best choice of a *classic* shard would be as described - post Tram, but pre-AoS. Because if any 2 things destroyed that classic feeling, it was the Diabloization of items, and Luna - and I'd pay dearly to see Luna get the same treatment that Magencia got...
The first time I quit was because of the free-for-all garbage that went on pre-Tram. There was NO incentive for the average, non-PvP'er to even log in, let alone renew subscriptions.
I came back after Renaissance, and to me, that was probably the best time I have ever had in game. Things were safe if one wanted to stay in Trammel, things were dangerous if you wanted to walk on the wild side that was Felucca, which was basically a mandatory thing if you wanted access to the best vendors, and if you were a crafter, your name meant something.
AoS destroyed that feeling for a lot of people like *ME* - the ones that were basically in the middle of the care-bear/non-con crowd. And like a lot of other folks, I left for greener pastures. And at that time, there WERE greener pastures. Horizons, until the devs got greedy and started actively ripping off the subs... EQ, while lacking in some things (housing being the big one), offering arguably a richer crafting system, albeit significantly more difficult, a little later, Vanguard, which still, IMO, has the richest crafting system, but killed off much of it's own sub base just from the computer required to play it to full advantage...
I did the EQ thing, on and off, for over 9 years. And in the end, what brought me back to UO? Even as *ahem* broken as everyone wants to claim it is, it is still more than the sum of all the other MMO's out there. Real housing options, giving a true sense of ownership in a pixelated world. A crafting system that, with imbuing, is as potent and satisfying as any other out there. No artificial, cookie cutter classes required - you can be what you want to be, in any combination, and still succeed in any way you might choose. And if you choose something different, it's as simple as a soulstone to change. Even just logging in and gardening for an hour or 2 on any given day is far more satisfying than the pure grind of other systems.
So, to me, the best choice of a *classic* shard would be as described - post Tram, but pre-AoS. Because if any 2 things destroyed that classic feeling, it was the Diabloization of items, and Luna - and I'd pay dearly to see Luna get the same treatment that Magencia got...
FYI.. this poll is worthless. The point of a classic shard would be to go back to what worked.. what was fun. You could generalize and pick an era but I think it would be more helpful to make a poll where it listed all the main features over the years and people could check all the ones they liked.
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